Co-parenting with an addict: divorce & raising a son w/ autism ft Laura Clery

Trigger warning. Please note this episode contains themes of abuse, suicidal ideation, and drug use. He broke into my house and threatened me. I was on my way to the courthouse to go get the restraining order and as I hear bang, bang, bang, I turn and there he is. Oh my gosh. You probably know Laura Clary from her viral comedy sketches, stand-up comedy, or one of her New York Times best-selling books. Over the last decade, she's built a devoted audience of more than 26 million followers, but behind the laughter, her life was quietly unraveling. I look on YouTube and there's a video from him titled, I separated from my wife. I'm getting all this hate. You monster. You witch. I call 911 and I'm like, my son, he's six years old. He's nonverbal. He's been missing for 10 minutes. Obviously, thinking of all the worst case scenarios, like was he hit? Was he taken? Like you just don't know if you're ever going to see your son again. We talked with Laura about her ex-husband's secret relapse, escaping what became an abusive relationship, and raising a son with autism, all on today's episode. Just so that I pronounce it correctly, Clary, right? Some people say Clary and some say Clary, and I just accept both. I don't know how to pronounce my own last name. Are you serious? No, I think it's Clary. You think it's Clary? I'm pretty sure. Who can we contact? Well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome Laura Clary to the pod. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. You know, I've never flown anywhere to do a podcast before. Oh my gosh. You're my first flight. We're so honored. Seriously, so honored. Honestly, you guys are so honored. We are. We are. We are. Wait, what was it about us that made you like agree to flying to us? My publishers made me. What did they say? They were like, it's a great podcast. You need to get on there. I love them. Oh, sorry. Bleep that. We'll bleep it out. We can mute it. Oh, man. Sorry. I got to watch my language. My daughter's five. She goes, I go, pretend to be me. And she, and she goes, oh, I need coffee. That was her impersonation of me. And I was like, that was good. And then she was like, you guys need to get in the bath right now or no more screen time. We need to get in the bath. You're filthy. And that was her next impression. And then her third one was, where the f*** is my purse? And I said, copy? I don't say that. She goes, yes, you do. So I really need to watch my language. Just bleep it. We definitely will. I think some people do listen to our podcast with their kids in the car. We typically keep it cool. We keep it clean, but I'm curious. Wait, it's like for kids too? Oh, not for kids. No. Okay. Okay. But I mean, hey, as a mom to a five and seven year old, what's your take on that? Do you let your kids cuss? Are you not? I think it's so funny when kids swear, but I also say if, if my daughter ever says a little swear word, I'll say, don't ever say that in school. You can, you know, say it at home. Fine. But never in school, never out. And she understands. I don't think it's a big deal. My son, when he's, and I don't condone it either. And I really do try to watch my language. You know, I just have a mouth like a truck driver. Unfortunately, I'm working on it. Progress, not perfection people. But, um, but my son, I remember he, he's on the autism spectrum. And so he was nonverbal. He was diagnosed just under two with level three, severe autism. And they were told, I was told he might never speak, might never be independent. And that was very terrifying. Um, so when he started to speak, every word was celebrated. So when he walked around going, oh, I was like, he said, you know, it was to be celebrated. Aw. When was it that he first started speaking? Well, he just turned seven. And I would say around six is when he really started putting sentences together. Um, yeah, just spontaneous sentences. It, um, I remember just getting him to say one word was, it took hours and hours of therapy. And then now he's at the point where he'll look at me and go, mommy, let's go for a walk, you know, or I want toast and almond butter. Yeah. It's hard for him, but he works so hard at every word. How often, cause I, I've, I've been listening to your podcast. I've been listening to the clips from, from your show and you on other shows. And it sounds like it's, it's quite the, the problem with making sure your son doesn't run away because of, because of his condition. Um, you know, I want to say that you've said he just doesn't really sense danger. Like most other kids, his age sense danger. And so, I mean, there's been times where helicopters have had to go looking after your son, correct? That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Um, so it's called eloping. Have you heard of the term eloping just through learning about you? Yeah, I know there's like different definitions. He was not getting married. He it's, um, it's when, you know, kids on the spectrum will often, you know, want to go explore. They'll want to go or that, you know, it's in my son's case, it's not that he's just wandering aimlessly. He's on a mission. He's very self-directed and determined and intelligent and he wants what he wants. So they're extremely adventurous, but they lack a sense and curious, but they lack a sense of danger. So they're not, whereas my daughter at five and at four, right? I'm sure your kids know, like I don't leave the house without my parents, you know, and my neighbor one time, um, Alfie, my son, I think around four or five hopped the fence to the next door neighbor. And I got a call, um, from my neighbor going, your son was playing with my barbecue at five in the morning. I've got security footage. I've been playing with my barbecue naked at five in the morning. And I was like, I'm so sorry. And can you send me the footage? And I am so sorry. So, you know, and then he literally, yes. And he played in their backyard and then he hopped back and went back to bed. So I didn't even know. And that's, you had no idea. So was that pre getting a security system installed? I didn't always turn on that alarm at night. And after that, I always turned it on. So after that, and that was like, I think he was around four. I'm not kidding. Um, yeah. And he, and so for about two months after that, every night around two or three in the morning, I would get woken up to. Crazy alarm. And then I come out and there's Alfie just like standing in the kitchen, like, you caught me, you know? And then after that he did stop. And now we're at the point actually where we, we bed share. So like, I know where he is at night and it's actually so cute and we cuddle and sleep so well. And my daughter loves it too. So it is. Yeah. I love it. But so, um, prime eloping years are like four to seven apparently. So I'm hoping knock on wood that he kind of grows this, this phase, but I was, I was telling him before that. And I write about this story in my book. Um, what doesn't kill you makes you hotter. I have, um, over 26 million followers at this point across all my platforms. It's crazy. I've been doing it so long, you know, but, and so many of the women that follow me are, you know, parents of neurodivergent, um, kids. Cause I, you know, I don't want them to have to struggle and, you know, but anyway, he, last summer he looked at me in the morning and he said, candy. And I said, we don't, uh, we don't have candy. And he said, candy. And I said, bro, we don't have candy. I'm sorry. And then I go off to yoga and about 15 minutes later, my nanny calls me and she's like, he's gone. Oh gosh. Yeah. And I said, what do you mean he's gone? And she goes, I was packing his bag to go to the dentist and he's gone. We cannot find him anywhere. And I said, well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know I'm driving around the route that we normally take walks on. Cause we go on like four walks a day. It's crazy. They never run out of energy. And so I hop in my car and I call 911 and I'm like, my son, he's six years old. He's nonverbal. He's got a red Spider-Man t-shirt on. And, um, as I'm like speeding down the street on the phone with the police, like obviously thinking of all the worst case scenarios, like, was he hit? Was he taken? Like, you just don't know if you're ever going to see your son again, you know? And then I see a cop on the other side of the street. I pull over, I rolled down my window and I screamed to the officer. I said, sir, my son, he's six years old. He's nonverbal red Spider-Man t-shirt. He, the cop goes, yeah, yeah, we got him. He's at the Ralph's, which is a local grocery store. Okay. And he, my son figured out how to manually open the gate, my big gate where we thought he was secure on the other side of figured out how to get to the store to get candy. That dude was cooking. He goes, yeah, the cop goes, just stay right there. I'll, I'll bring them to you. And then five minutes later, another squad car parks, the car, three cop cops get out and there's Alfie in front with a box of Sour Patch Kids and the biggest smile on his face walking towards me. Have you timed his mile time? Because that's pretty insane. I mean, 10, 10 minutes, 1.4 miles for a seven-year-old. Come on now. He was six. remember reading about that that's like i know he just knew what he wanted so now i have trackers on him he's got trackers on his shoes tracker on his belt um i triple lock all of my doors i have key locks on the inside and you just it is what it is my life is never dull not a dull moment baby what does that bill cost doesn't don't like i don't know if they have to send out a helicopter to track down your kid did they send you a bill no oh they don't no and i'm really grateful of the part of town i live in it's a little more suburban parts of LA and so it's a little quieter and so the cops they know Alfie they know my son at this point and they love him and they understand that he's autistic and this is you know they're just like they just adore him but they know him girl you said he got diagnosed at two just under two yeah what was just under two okay so what was it that you were like that led to that diagnosis yeah he wasn't um pointing and clapping that was that's an indicator he had a like a few words that he would say he would say mommy daddy monkey doggie and milk those were like the five words that he was saying um and he sort of just stopped saying those words you know you could call it a regression maybe um where he just like lost the few words that he had then he started having these meltdowns stopped looking at me when he did look at me he looked kind of scared and mm-hmm he's just sort of yeah those those were the indicators for me and then when I looked that up like why isn't he talking anymore he just was talking and now he's not everything led back to autism and so then I took him and got him assessed and you know I still think that they were harsh you know how can you know that he's quote-unquote severe and will never speak or be independent and level three like at such a young age and I said that to the doctor I said how do you know that mm-hmm that this this is my assessment this is what I believe you know and she was wrong you know I I don't know I don't know if he'll be independent I believe he will he's so intelligent so driven he has his um his special interests right now are shapes but like not circles and squares I'm talking like octagonal prisms um dodecahedrons he's like right draws 3d shapes all over the driveway he and he's just turned seven that's amazing I remember learning that and is it true that okay so that's like geometry yeah is it true that you end up retaking geometry three times look it just all went to him it just all went to him are you dead I I just I could never I don't know I don't know what it was I love that I just couldn't focus you know I was too busy trying to make people laugh or something three times I took it yeah and I think I finally passed it with a d the third time how does someone that couldn't pass geometry go from yeah go from that to then writing writing you know a book not only one book you've written two other books you're a new york times best-selling author how did you get into that well because it's not about geometry this isn't about geometry okay yeah I'm really good at creative writing I was always good at writing comedy and essays and so that was one of my only skills in fact really young I was really young I was really young I was really young I was really young I knew I was gonna write comedy in whatever capacity I like wrote a letter to Lauren Michaels when I was like 10 I was like dear Lauren I'm gonna be on your show and I'm gonna make it so great love Laura thank you to chili pad for sponsoring this portion of today's video Matt said something to me last night that was honestly so true we're addicted to our chili pad to the point where Matt literally was like I don't know if I can sleep without it yeah I just love going to bed with cold sheets it feels so good I love going to bed with cold sheets it feels so good like I want to get in bed right now that's exactly why we want to tell you guys about the chili pad 2.0 by sleep me we can't shut up about it it's the most advanced version yet of the bed cooling system built specifically for people who are tired of waking up hot and sweaty which is certainly us in these 120 degree conditions in Arizona yeah certainly me postpartum I will be sweating through those sheets but not anymore this is my first time being postpartum with a chili pad I think it's gonna be game changing chili pad 2.0 actively cools or warms using water it's a thermostat for your bed and water is key here fans just move air around but chili pad uses actively chilled water to cool the bed actually pulling heat away from your body and it works with your existing mattress no new bed needed quite honestly everybody needs one if I'm being so for real with you so definitely visit www.sleep.me slash unplanned to get up to two hundred and fifty five dollars off your chili pad 2.0 with code unplanned a special offer is available for the unplanned podcast listeners and only for a limited time order today with free shipping and try it out for 30 days you can return it for free if you don't like it with your sleep trial you're gonna like it visit www.sleep.me slash unplanned and never wake up hot and tired again I just like kind of I was one of those I always knew what I wanted to do you know and uh writing was part of it and so yeah what would you say the main difference is from what doesn't kill you makes you hotter from the the other books that you've written well they're all they're all Memoirie um a collection of essays so my first book idiot um which came out in 2019 that one I was not I was expecting my mom to buy it I did not it sold like crazy and um this was my story of how I went from becoming a broke suicidal drug addicted um girl you know hopping from one toxic relationship to the next to becoming a sober spiritual healthy you know at the time wife too um and living a life beyond my wildest dreams I wrote about that transformation so I got sober very young and just changed my life around thank God I did um but that's that book that was idiot yeah and so it I write about like my analogs and the crazy dangerously impulsive situations I got myself into like um like going to a bar and I met some like random Irish guy at the bar and he was like do you want to go to Mexico and I was like yeah sure why not and we just like hopped in the car and drove to Tijuana with like this guy that I just met five minutes ago things like that and you were 19. hashtag relatable right we were actually engaged at night yeah we you know that was when we went to Disney World and I proposed and I was I I had just turned 20 so I was a fresh 20 year old in a different way yeah we were recklessly in love getting getting married oh getting married teenagers probably yeah that is crazy I would argue that's crazier than going to Tijuana with a random Irish guy okay I'm just kidding yeah but things like that you know I just um I was dangerously impulsive and just kind of reckless and wild and um you know have drug addiction and alcoholism in my family so I think I just like inherited that yeah and just I think because I I've always been also a go-getter and ambitious I could just see in my early 20s like oh I can't drink like my friends like my friends are able to like have a glass of wine and stop and when I had one I would want more and more and then I would want drugs and I just could see it progressing and suddenly I like was caring more about getting high than I was caring about you know booking my next job or or my friends or my family and I could see it taking the priority and then so for me my bottom was more internal I was like I'm never going to be who I want to be if I don't stop and straighten my life out and so I said you know I just like walked into a recovery room and admitted that I had a problem and thank God I I was able to stay sober I'll have 15 years on October 29th of this year no way yeah congratulations 15 years and it's why I have everything I do and that's 15 years sober from what exactly everything yeah no drugs or alcohol so you don't you don't even drink like I drink wheatgrass weed grass wheat grass you know she's from LA yeah yeah we don't even know what that is over here you're vegan too right yeah vegan wheat grass you're a completely different person than you were 15 years ago crazy just as extreme but in another way now now I'm extreme the other way but I don't I don't hate it I'm like addicted to hot yoga now and you know you look hot protein smoothies thank you thank you stop I'm so curious um as people that haven't experienced addiction what are misconceptions about and like what do people get wrong about like struggling with addiction well I believe it's a disease you know and um so you know a lot of people who are in their addiction they're sort of judged I think there's a lot of stigma around drug addicts right we just kind of look down at them and and I get it you know you're kind of a nightmare when you're on drugs I certainly was um but they're sick you know so it's viewing people as sick rather than like bad or wrong I think um so I think that's a misconception too it's like they think it's a choice to be an alcoholic or an addict and yeah sure picking up that first thing is a choice technically but after you do pick up that mind altering substance like we're bodily and mentally different from others so most people can do it normally and if you're an addict you just can't it once you take that mind-altering substance it releases the phenomenon of craving and you can't stop and you end up in Tijuana with an obnoxious guy you know that you don't even like he was so annoying we had nothing in common it was terrible What was your breaking point to realize that you needed to get help, that you needed to walk into that meeting? Was it an AA meeting you said? Well, actually when I went to Tijuana with the Irish guy, I had a boyfriend at the time and I wanted to break up with that boyfriend and I didn't know how. And also, by the way, I was like 19 and my boyfriend was like 37. Ew. That's kind of gross, right? Looking back, I'm like, what daddy issues, whatever. But so I didn't know how to end it. He wanted to get married and have kids. And I'm like maybe 19 or 20. I was very young and I didn't know how to get out of it. And so I was like, let me just do the worst thing possible. So he kicks me out and breaks up with me, which is crazy. But I wasn't thinking. When I look back at that girl, I'm like, who is she? I would never. I really feel like that was a whole different person. I don't know if you guys identify with that looking at yourself as a teenager, if you're like, ooh, I would never do that now. Or maybe. Maybe not. I don't know if that's a common experience or not. We definitely are completely different people than who we were 10 years ago. You know? So he, sure enough, kicks me out when I get back. He's like, we're done. You just went to Mexico. Like, bye, with some guy. And you're like, nuts. Yeah. Oh, no. Success. It works. It worked. So he kicked me out and I flew back to Downers Grove, Illinois, where I'm from. And I remember meeting my godfather. My godmother, who's like such a character. She would wear these big, you know, mink fur coats and all this hair, big hairspray and like way too much Botox and just like chain smoked cigarettes. But she was the only sober one in my family. And we meet at this little Mexican restaurant on Ogden Avenue. Every year I'd meet her. She was like my second mom. And so we meet at this restaurant when I get home and she looks at me, she goes, you look like Laura. She goes, your hair looks like a rat's nest. She goes, you're one of us. I can tell. You're an alcoholic. You need to get sober. You're going to die. And I was like, OK, can we just order the guac? Like, but that was kind of my bottom. You know, I could not go out in the world with bad hair, you know, hair. That was it. I was like, rat's nest. Oh, my God, I need help. I need help. But yeah, so I but what what she said stuck, you know, and she was sober at that point, like 20 years. And she talked to me about alcoholism and how she got sober. And so when I went back to L.A., I was staying on my sister's couch and I would just walk to these recovery meetings, these 12 step meetings, and I would just listen. And at the beginning, I would go in and out. I, you know, would go in. I'd get a few weeks sober and then I'd be like, I could have a glass of wine. And I couldn't. You know, I remember I walked into a meeting one day and there was a greeter and she said, hi, like, how are you? And I said, oh, I just relapsed. But, you know, I'm back. And she goes, you know, Laura, I just buried a bubbly blonde 22 year old because she OD'd in the bathtub. You're not too young. You're not invincible. This disease will take you out and it will kill you. And I was like, good morning to you, too. Yeah. Wow. But I was so scared of that that I asked her to sponsor me and take me through the steps. And she did. And I did it like my life depended on it because it did. And from there, I've never picked up or drink again. And I, you know, you're not supposed to say you never will, but I don't believe I ever will, especially now that I'm a mother. You know, were you ever suicidal at that point? Because I can't imagine going from having all these desires for alcohol or cocaine or whatever it is and trying to quit must be really, really hard. Yeah. So was there any like any, you know, depression mixed in there as well? Yeah, definitely. Because you're drinking and using to numb. So I found like when I was in my disease, I was crippled by like a thousand forms of fear. I was just constantly scared that I wasn't going to get what I wanted or I was going to lose what I had. And I was scared to even make art. You know, at the time I was a barely working comedy actress. So I was like doing sitcoms and commercials. But, you know, my life was 90 percent auditions, 95 percent production, you know, because you're just like going in there multiple times a week, you know, with 12 pages of sides and scripts, you know, auditioning. And then they're just like, thanks for coming in. And you're just like, but I just got two words out. And they're like, thanks for coming in. You know, and it's like, that's your life. But I was so nervous to make my own stuff. What I really wanted to do was like direct and write and do characters and tell my own stories. And I was so scared to put myself out there. Yeah. If I was in a bad sitcom, it's not my fault. It's not my sitcom. Yeah. I'm not why it got canceled. So it was very low pressure for me to be in other people's stuff. Yeah. But I think I drank and used, too, because of the fear, you know. So then you take that away, the numb. And then now I'm left with all these feelings. I can feel things. I could feel everything. Fear, anger. You know, they say in the program that I got sober in that resentment is the number one offender. It's the first thing that will take you out. And resentment is what? You angry and re-feeling. And it's not letting go, not forgiving. And they say resentment is the number one offender. It's the first thing that will lead you back to the drink or the drug. So it becomes imperative when you make the decision to stay sober, to get sober, for me to be able to forgive everything and everyone. I have to. I can't hold on to that anger because it's too risky. If you hold on to the anger, you're likely to need to numb, right? So this is like AA 101, not holding on to resentment, not holding on to anger. And same with fear. Can you give us like a short elevator pitch crash course into the core things you learn in AA? So yeah. So people say that, you know, a lot of people are scared off because they think it's religious. I grew up in an atheist. I was the only atheist house on the block. My dad was a staunch atheist. He's actually not anymore. He's now like agnostic. Like, he doesn't know. But so when I went into the rooms and I was hearing a lot of prayer and God, and you turn your life and your will over to God, that freaked me out at the beginning. Now I do believe in a higher power and I pray and meditate and all of that. But so AA is, I would say it's a spiritual program and it's a design for living. And it's not just AA. There's a program for like everyone. There's, you know, shopping anonymous. There's sex and love anonymous. There's gambling. There's Al-Anon, which is if you have a friend or a family member who suffers from addiction, that affects you, you know, and pretty much everyone knows someone who's got it and it's hard. So there's a, there's a 12 step program for them, but essentially it's a design for living. And I would say that it teaches you how to live and function without, you know, in my case, drinking or using. So that involves a lot of different principles like surrendering acceptance. They say acceptance is the answer to all of our problems. When, when we're distraught, when we're anxious, when we're depressed, it's because we're not accepting our life exactly as it is at this moment right now. So it's not, it's not that we are like doormats and we just have to stay in an abusive thing or whatever, but just like, finding a way to radically accept, okay, this is my life right now. And then a big one is like the serenity prayer. I don't know if you're familiar with that one, but grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. That's probably like my favorite prayer. And I feel like it's just everything. Whenever I find myself, you know, um, in dis, dis-ease, I'm like, oh, you know, am I accepting the things I can't change? Right. Or do I have the courage to change the things that I can and then the wisdom to, to know the difference. That's so good. Right. It's so simple, but like, oh, so profound. I think you talking about all this reminds me of that scene in finding Nemo where the sharks are like, fish are friends, not food. And then they, they're having like their AA meeting, but it's about not eating fish. You know, I think that's so, I think that's so good. Yeah. It is really good. That is so funny. And we do all you hold hands at the end of the meeting and you say the serenity prayer. But I got to say like, you know, I, my third book, um, is, uh, is all about the last four years of my life, which, which by the way, and I'll say this too, since we're talking about sobriety, I believe sobriety is what brought my then husband and I together. Like we met at a party and 2011 and he was holding a bottle of water and I was like, Ooh, that's so hot that he's holding water. Right. Cause that's what you're looking for at the time. Yes. So I went up to him and I was like, Hey, like, where'd you get your water? That was a good one. And I just like kept talking about water cause I was nervous. And I was like, I just like love water so much. Like it's really important to stay hydrated. Thank you to Shopify for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. If you've been sitting on a business idea, Shopify makes it easy to make it happen. Everything you need to start selling is included and ready. from day one and this right here is actually a big part of how abby was able to launch her own mascara brand because of shopify that's what we used for the website launching that product was so overwhelming i'm sure any new business owner knows this feeling but having the support of shopify and all the systems they already have in place and all the features they have i can genuinely say through experience now they make it very user-friendly for you and make that daunting task feel a lot less overwhelming from the moment your first customer is ready to pay shopify checkout helps more of them finish their purchase and when they come back their details are already saved one tap and they're done because shopify handles the setup and checkout you have more time to focus on growing your business and the tools to do it shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide from household names like mattel and gymshark to small businesses just getting started with shopify nothing stands between your idea and a real business so go make it one start your free trial at shopify.com unplanned that's shopify.com unplanned to start your free trial your your new book is about the past four years of your life yeah which i've got to be honest with you i like kudos to you for like like still going and being here on this podcast and writing a book i mean from the outside looking in it looks like it's been a lot to say the least yeah so we were married you know just over 10 years isn't that crazy 10 years that's a long time yeah and um it kind of all fell apart um in 2021 late 2021 was when when you found out he was cheating on you was that the first time that you'd ever been cheated on no he had an affair in 2014 a few years into our into our marriage and you didn't know about it i found out oh you you found out then i found out then but you forgave him and i forgave him but the story's crazy you have to say tell the story you want me to tell you you want you want that good tea well i just get the good piping hot tea i don't mean it's a good story because it's a terrible story of it oh i've processed it i'm like able to talk about it you know i can also recognize a good story it feels like it's made for a movie my life my life is a movie and i'm just like helps you process it too totally like you're like this is a good view this as entertainment is that why you're a comedian is because you use the comedy to kind of get through the dark stuff perhaps you know perhaps that's part of it you know and i'm able to just recognize it of course at the moment it's not funny but they say tragedy plus time equals comedy and i i buy it you know so i'm able to look back and laugh thank god you know i think i have a program my program helps me process things too so i you know like i still go after all these years to my weekly women's meeting and you just deeply share and deeply listen and you get vulnerable and you tell the truth and they say you're as sick as your secrets so it's important for me to to share my story you know but so yeah so in 2014 we had been married a few years and he just started acting strange you know we were both obviously like i said and uh recovery but he just was acting off and you know he's he's british he would like one in the morning like all bloody he's like i fell off my bicycle and i'm like why were you on your bike at one in the morning like just like odd behavior and then like i would hear pill bottles rattling and when i would confront him about it it was like oh they're prescribed like i have trouble sleeping i have i'm anxious my back hurts it was like he always had a reason for the pills i swear like doctors are the number one drug dealers now like really absolutely yeah it's not like street drugs anymore i feel like people are just getting it from they go doctor shopping and they just get oh gosh you can get synthetic heroin you can get speed you can get all the things and then when when you can't doctor shop anymore it's become so dangerous because now everything has fentanyl in it and so people are just dropping dead it's really devastating i know this was supposed to be a funny podcast and i'm ruining it it's okay this is your story and you got to share it no yeah so 2014 starts acting strange and one day it's like 10 a.m pre children so i'm sleeping honey okay i'm sleeping in we have like a two-bedroom apartment in santa monica at the time he's a film composer so he's scoring this big movie in uh the second bedroom he's got like drums booming really loud music playing in his room and i hear his phone alarm go off in the kitchen so i yell out and i'm like steven you know your phone alarm turn it off and he doesn't hear me because he's in the studio with the loud music like just i swear it's just getting louder nothing lights me up like matt's alarm going off and it won't stop you know what i mean like is it every man that just sets alarms on their phone what the hell i do it every day okay matt so red flag red flag well i thought it was a sign so well now looking back i think it was a sign seriously because it just kept the beeps kept getting louder and eventually can't ignore it dude yes and i just and i tried to get him to get his phone and he wouldn't so i ripped the storm into the kitchen i grab his phone and then up pops a text from a contact name that's called absolutely no way like that's the the name on the phone is absolutely no way and i thought that was strange why would he make that the contact i don't know i don't know it was weird so i looked i go absolutely no way who's that and i looked and it became very clear very quickly that he was in a full-blown affair okay very explicit stuff abby told me about this there was like mention of doing stuff on on the kitchen table and all sorts of craziness we don't know who's kitchen table to this day oh gosh yeah i definitely lysoled my kitchen table that day though i mean actually one clarifying question but i don't want to know but i do need to oh yeah no i was thinking for you to ask you like which table oh yeah yeah yeah which table um so yeah so then she says the absolutely no way says are we meeting today and i said as from his phone as him i said yeah what's the address again now i said this not to go attack this woman because it's not her her fault it's his it's not i don't condone you know it's like at the time i didn't know that she knew that he was married but he's who i should have been focusing the anger on but i just wanted the truth and i knew he wasn't going to tell me the truth totally he's gonna deny it i wanted answers so i thought i want to go talk to this girl and get answers yeah and that's why i did that so i said what's the address she texted me the address and then i just go into his studio and i was like hey babe like i'm gonna go um get some coffee i'll be back and he's like all right you know i love i love your accent okay all right sally ho all right enjoy yeah i will um so i like hop in the car speed to this address in malibu it's a recovery meeting it's i see the building it's a massive recovery meeting with like 200 people in it i walk in and i'm like looking around for like a woman who looks guilty you know like how i don't know how i'm gonna find this person someone tell me why didn't you just call the number like maybe the phone would have rung but whatever it was 200 people i was spinning i was everything was in slow motion i'm like what am i doing here i i i eventually went home and confronted him yeah and you know and we separated we separated for three months he admitted that he was using again and um you know but he went and he got sober he you know went to rehab detox like flew to chicago to make amends to my parents which was also very awkward because my dad's weird about anything emotional he's like i'm so sorry i will never hurt your daughter for the rest of my life i love her dearly and i'm so so sorry and he's my dad's like have you ever used an ipad at the gym it's really nice to just you know listen to some zeppelin while you're lifting did he actually say yeah he actually yeah that's what that's what steven told me because i i poured my heart out to them and then your father was speaking of ipods at the gym and how he likes to listen to led zeppelin while he's on the elliptical didn't know how to handle it it's very midwest right we don't really talk about what's going on yeah i don't know at least that my family oh no um yeah so so so yeah so and then i eventually forgave him you know after he got help i could see the change and again because i'm a recovering addict too i'm not perfect either i've made mistakes so i empathize and i'm like we're human you know we're flawed and he he messed up and he's making amends and he's making it right and i love him and he's my best friend so eventually after maybe five months i took him back and we had many good years after that yeah so you i guess this is hard to maybe reflect on in hindsight but like do you still think that you made the right decision in that time to forgive him and have him come back it's funny maybe i should say no but i'm gonna say yes because we had such a wonderful run. Like, oh my God. I mean, we truly were best friends. We spent half the day just cracking up, laughing our asses off. He's a musician. I'm a comedian. We would make this awesome comedy and music together. We were so creative. We just had the most fun life for just many years when we were sober and working a program and keeping our side of the street clean and being rigorously honest and, you know, forgiving and confronting and walking through our fears. And when we were working that and just like living a good life, it was incredible. So incredible that we, you know, whatever, achieved all our goals. We bought our dream house. We expanded the family. Let's have a baby. That's how good life was. And he was the one that encouraged you to start posting on social media, right? Yeah. Which led to this empire of over 20 million followers. Obviously that was lucrative. You no longer had to live at your sister's house on the couch. You were able to buy a house. Two. So two houses. Yes. Two houses. But you're not a fan of two mortgages, right? Not a fan. Well, you know, it was fine when we were together, but I think when we separated and I was still like, you know, paying for these two mortgages and I lost my business partner, that that's when everything kind of. Went crazy. So yeah. So, you know, like I said, many good years. I don't know that I would have done it differently. And then it's also hard to say because we had two babies, you know? And then it's like, you know, I just couldn't imagine my life without my son and my daughter. I think they're such a blessing. What made the second time that he cheated different from the first? Was that just kind of one of those things where it's like, okay, this is the second strike. I, we, we've got to, we've got to officially divorce at this point because, I mean, who, if, if he says he's going to stop cheating, you just, you just can't trust it at that point. Yeah. I think that I actually, again, I'll be honest. I didn't divorce him because of that second time. It, that actually wasn't why I was willing to work through that too. Um, I think it too, it was less extreme. It was, it was, um, I'm sorry. Cause you said, I'm just imagining a family in a van listening to this episode. And I'm just like, do I say this next part or no, but yeah, no. Um, I'm sure anybody listening with their kid in the car has turned off the podcast by now. So we were probably good. Yeah. I think so. I think the kids have gone to bed. I think the kids are asleep. Okay. So, so many, you know, many years went by, like our career was amazing. Best friend, like, you know, love of my life. And then we had two amazing kids. And then after the birth of my daughter, I was experiencing some postpartum depression. And I think at the time, part of that depression came from the fact that him and I felt so disconnected. It was like, we were a thousand miles away, but in the same room, like we were just so, and again, it was just strange. I didn't understand my godmother who I told you about with the fur and too much Botox, she was dying around that time. So, so I flew back to go say goodbye to her. And like, I got, you know, guacamole from our favorite Mexican restaurant. I fed it to her and I played her, her favorite music. And I made sure my hair was blown out and looked really good. So she knew that I was healthy and good. Yeah. And I thanked her for, you know, saving my life cause she did. And, um, and then when I flew back from saying goodbye to her, I remember he picked me up in the car and there was no like hug. There was no, I love you. It was just very cold. And two, we work together. So we had almost become like business partners, but the marriage part was really not good. And I remember sitting in the car and I was still kind of distraught. And he started talking about like the algorithm or like, you know, a video, not performing the way that we wanted it to. Right. Because we were sort of maybe addicted to our, a bit. And, and I just remember that of like wanting my husband at that time, but getting like my business partner. And it was just odd. It was just an odd cold moment that was striking for me. And then just a few days later I caught him in, in another lie. And it was kind of a small lie. I open with this in my book, um, this little deceit. Now this lie was small enough to where I, it was a little bit flawed too. I had actually done a similar thing to what I wrote about in this book. So like, yeah, the opening line of your book is fire, by the way. I don't know if you, how much time you spent on the first sentence, but I read that first sentence and I'm like, don't say it. So then people, I'm not going to say the first, yeah, you got to pick up the book to read the first sentence. Your book is good. The writing's amazing. Do you collaborate with other writers to write something like that? You do. I have a co-writer on every book. Amazing. And not only a co-writer and editor, you know, and then my mom, like I'll send her an essay. I'll send her an essay and be like, what do you think of this? You know, I really do think it takes a whole team, you know, for, for me, I think if I were to write a book on my own with my ADHD, it would take me six years to finish. So then how long does it take you to write? A co-writer is amazing because you write something and send it off. And then she helps me punch it up and make it better. Helps me structure the stories goes, Ooh, what if we put this story over here and the story over here? So you're collaborating and it's incredible. And then sometimes too, I'll like voice memo stories and send them to her and she'll transcribe them. And that's amazing. So it just, I recommend it, you know, if you're a busy person to get someone to help you, I mean, shout out to Ginger. She like killed it on this, you know, but how did you find this person to collaborate with you? My, um, my manager is really good at finding me, me writers. And so, yeah, so it made the, it made it doable for me. Yeah. This second time that things kind of got rough in your marriage, it's, it, I noticed a similar thing. Like obviously it was like relapsing and then infidelity. Is there some connection there between the two? Totally. Yes. So I think they're all linked. And again, when I discovered this deceit, it, I didn't know at the time, but he was back using again. And I always say like sobriety brought us apart. It tore everything apart. It, you know, I don't want to say it destroyed our family because you know, we're okay, but it ended it all. I mean, it, you saw, and it was all very public too. It was just such a mess. They say that, you know, addictions like doing pushups, even if you're sober, it's getting stronger and every relapse is worse than the last. And I will say that I did not recognize who this man was. This last relapse, it was so terrifying. Um, so the initial lie that I caught him and I was willing to work through it, but then the behavior became so scary and so unsafe, um, that I made the decision to, to separate, um, to protect myself and the kids from this person who I was struggling to recognize. You know, I'm like, who is this person that I've known for 11 years? Who are you? Where did you go? You know? Um, and it really is a cunning, baffling, powerful disease. And to answer your question, um, I think they're very linked sex addiction, you know, drug addiction, love addiction, all of it. You're trying to fill the hole in the soul with external stuff. We do it all the time, right? With, I mean, everyone has something maybe that they're a little dependent on and for some it makes their life fully unmanageable and just destroys everything. How did you fill that hole in your soul being an addict in the past and now being 15 years sober? What's, what's that thing, that missing link that you found in your life? I think happiness and contentment is an inside job. You know, there was a period where I was probably addicted to the success and the money and the fame and just making people laugh. Even that was addicting. It was so fun to like have a concept, write it up, edit it, post it, and then get 10 million views and all these people laughing and you're just like, yeah, this is amazing, you know, drug in itself, right? Yeah. And it's like, you could argue that that's an okay one. It's an okay drug, like making people laugh, but then say a video flops, doesn't do well. People go, you suck. Right. So then am I going to listen to that too? Yeah. And then, right. The depression seeps in and then I want to numb. So it's like, I don't listen to any of the crazy good or the crazy bad. You just, my job is to stay humble, to stay, I'm not better than I'm not less than, you know, before I got sober, I was either grandiose or comatose. I was either the hottest ever, or I should myself. There was no like just right sized worker among worker, you know? And then I learned to simple things. Like when I wake up in the morning, I try and ask when I do my prayer meditation, what can I give today rather than what can I get? Like even on the plane ride here, I'm like, how can I be of service to them? And hopefully maybe help someone through sharing my story. It's not about what I can get. It's about what I I can give. And ironically, when I do that, I end up getting, I get fulfillment. I feel full and whole because my life has purpose. So I ask, like, how can I be a better mom, a better friend, a better artist? Thank you to ZocDoc for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. As many of you know, I use ZocDoc. I actually use the platform to get officially diagnosed with ADHD. I thought I had it for a long time, never actually went to the doctor about it. And when I finally did, they were able to confirm, yes, you have that. Super thankful to ZocDoc for allowing me to have that appointment on my phone, not having to drive to a doctor's office and wait in the lobby and then drive home again. It was just able to happen at our house, which is so convenient. ZocDoc just makes that super, super seamless. And they let you search and compare local in-network doctors. You heard me right, in-network. They will find ones that accept your insurance, which is also really huge. And they have more than 150,000 providers within 200 plus specialties across all 50 states. Appointments happen fast, usually within 24 to 72 hours, and you can even score same-day appointments. Your health matters and taking care of yourself shouldn't be complicated. Find and book the right doctor with ZocDoc. Head to ZocDoc.com slash unplanned to get started and check that appointment off your to-do list. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C.com slash unplanned. I've learned, that gratitude is. Also, just like snaps to all of that. That was so good. So seriously, that was so, so good. Something that I've learned is gratitude is the antidote to automatic negative thoughts. And I heard you speaking about this, and that's where you started mentioning giving. And it kind of, yeah, just opened up so much in my brain. I'm like, oh my gosh, of course. I mean, I think it's great to have gratitude, but then in some ways, sometimes gratitude can be. More self-serving. And I, yeah, I really like everything you said about giving. What is something that you do, like today? But gratitude, love that too. To just like get grateful, even just like a roof over our head, like how lucky are we that we have running water and, you know. Oh, a hundred percent. When you give, what is the method in which you like to give? Is it through like a certain action, like volunteering at a homeless shelter? Is it through giving to a certain charity? What is that to you, giving? Yeah. I mean, I think it's a mindset, you know. Of course, there's like philanthropic causes that I'm interested in, but it's also just like, how can you give to. It's a service mindset. So, right. So it's like, how can I give to my kids today? Well, I can be present with them, ask them questions to get to know them more, give them a fun experience. Just make them feel loved and safe and like an extra long hug or whatever. Or, you know, calling a friend and asking, how are you? Not, oh, and then this happens and then me, me, me, me, don't worry, me, me, me, me, me, me. You know, not that, but just like, how are you? Yeah. That to me is giving. It doesn't have to be this grand act. I remember early in sobriety when I started shifting my mind because the untreated addict is selfish and self-seeking to the extreme. It's just like, what can I get? How can I get happier? How could I, you know, feel better? And it's not. And then when I, so when I learned to shift my perception and to serve more in just all areas of my life, it's also helping other addicts. So I'll go into meetings and if someone raises their hand with three days, I give them my number. I say, hey, call me if you need help. And I'm there to help you and teach you how I did it. It's like one person helping another. That's cool. So simple. Okay. So divorce, should we talk about maybe that could be something? That was a different direction. That could be something. It could be something we could like talk about maybe. I don't know. So you, you did a whole podcast series with your ex-husband after the divorce, correct? And, and, and shared all that to the world. Do you regret doing that? No, because I do it for the plot, honey. It's a great, great story. No, great story. No. Yeah. Maybe, maybe that wasn't the best. Maybe that wasn't one of my greatest ideas. At the time we weren't actually divorced. We were separated. Yeah. The divorce took a long time. I've been divorced now for like two months. It's so, so yeah. You only had been divorced for two months. Isn't that crazy? But we were, you know, we've been separated since the kids were one and three, which I'm also grateful for too, because they're just so young. They just know that we're in different houses and they're just, it's so normal for them. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So at the time I was sort of delusional and I just thought we could be like Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin and do conscious uncoupling. Like that. Remember when they got divorced, you guys remember that? They like, I don't, I didn't know that she got divorced to be honest. I, yeah, I, I don't know too much about it, but I just remember like when they got divorced, the guy from Coldplay and Gwyneth Paltrow got divorced and they were like, we're doing this thing called conscious uncoupling. Like they didn't call it divorce, but conscious uncoupling divorce, but they're still best friends and it's all love. And, and I was like, that's what I'm going to do. Didn't work. Now. I just thought this is my best friend. Like even though he is unsafe, like I empathize because I'm also an addict, so we're separating, but then he would tell me, okay. I didn't know he was using at the beginning. So there was that. I just thought he was unhinged, but then he would tell me, Oh, I'm getting help. And then he told me he was using, okay. So now I know, but now he's going to go get help. So in my head, I'm like, okay, he's getting help. You know, I'm never going to take him back, but we can still be friends for our kids. Like I want to be able to go to the park with him and talk about our kids and have family time. Like I wanted that. I don't want that contentious, horrible, hate each other, right. Resentment, horrible stuff. No way. I don't want that. You know, like, I'm able to forgive you from a distance and like, let's be friends. So we had such an amazing collaborative thing together for so many years. We would make comedy sketches together forever and you know, all that. And so I thought, let's make like co-parenting sketches. That's so funny. 56% of people get divorced. It's really funny. We'll do a drop-off scene where you drop off the kids and my daughter comes out and she has one shoe and I'm like, where's her shoe? And he's like, no, you know, whatever. And it's just a funny back and forth of like, you know, this divorced couple who's like raising kids together. It seemed like a really good idea at the time. Yeah. And it worked for a little bit, but then ultimately he would just lose his mind again. Like he would just go crazy. And I, so it would go, go well for a bed or we would do like a podcast and we'd talk about the separation and things like that. And then, I don't know, I think I was enabled labeling. I think I was codependent, very codependent. You know, I was so attached to him. Like, aren't you, don't you feel attached to each other? You've been married for over 10 years. You know what I mean? So now I'm like struggling to have a life without him. So even though we're not together, well, we could still do a podcast together. Right. But it could be different. Now we could be co-parents and we could talk about divorcing in a healthy way and we can have on parenting experts and, and, you know, and I was just so desperate to like maintain some sort of relationship and like, and maybe there was probably a bit of, I'm so wired in my head to just, I know what's going to hit. I know what's going to do well. And I knew there's no one else really doing this. This'll do really well. What was that like to hear outside opinions and outside thoughts on the divorce in real time or on, on the separation in real time? Cause I can only imagine that would be a huge weight to then have all these other opinions on what you're going through. Yeah. And it probably, this is just my, my interpretation, but it probably could drive a person crazy to hear all these different, you know, so many different takes on your separation. Yeah, absolutely. I think initially, because this was before we would do the co-parenting podcast, when I asked him for a separation, this was all very private, very private, right? We would not announced anything. I was traumatized from the events that occurred. It was very scary time. Yeah. I asked him for the separation. I wake up in the morning to all these phone calls and texts. Are you okay? Is everything okay? I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And I'm like, what, what's going on? Like, I haven't even told my mom yet. This is so new. I look on YouTube and there's a video from him titled, I separated from my wife and it was just announced to the world. So now I'm like still processing this really traumatic thing and the whole world knows. And then he does another video that's like, I tried to end it all. So now I'm getting all this hate. He tried to end it and you separated, you monster, you witch. And they don't know what really happened. They have no idea what the kids and I went through. They don't know. Cause I'm not, I hadn't posted it and now it's all out there. And when I confronted him and I said, what are you doing why are you posting this like he goes well that's what we do we post our lives to the internet like that's what we do and then i'm like oh my god have i created this monster because like when we met he was just this introverted composer making his music and then i was making my comedy and i'm like oh come into my video oh you know let's let's make videos together and then i think it was just another addiction and he would stop at nothing to get that viral video to get that monetization to get that validation to fill the hole in the soul with the external stuff i just think it was another cross addiction as they say from when he posted that video because he wasn't thinking about the kids or i when he did that yeah how much time elapsed between that video getting posted by him him announcing you're separate without your permission to then him you know riling up a mob of people to call cps on you so that happened the cps happened um probably like two years later two years later isn't that crazy yeah i i after that another horrific thing happened he um broke into my house and threatened me and i called the police and i was i was going to get a restraining order i was on my way to the courthouse um and he actually spent the night in jail um and i went in the morning to go get the restraining order and as i like was going into park um in the parking structure at the courthouse yeah i turn i roll down my window and the ticket lady i look at the ticket lady i'm like hi um which building is the one where i get a restraining order and he's like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know and she and she's like and she's like points to the left and right as she points to the left i hear bang bang bang bang bang i turn and there he is oh my gosh he had tracked me from our car because we had teslas and they track your location so you can see um you know where i was so he got out of jail and ubered to the courthouse to find me yeah that is like something out of a horror isn't it yeah i'll probably end up making one you should honestly yeah i probably will because you might as well turn your pain into art why not why not might as well monetize my trauma but also like make a cool movie that can help people isn't that crazy it's like it's straight out of a movie this whole book is like a page turner thriller it's so insane but yeah so he bangs down and i'm terrified now i'm like and he's crying and begging and pleading and saying i'll get help and i'll you know i'll never do this again and um i love you and we're soulmates and i'll do anything and just like let me i promise you like uh you know we're meant to be together and you know i wasn't in my right mind and i was just jealous because he had read my journal and read about some crushes that i had on people we were separated yeah at the time but like i wrote about my little crushes like a little school girl because i've been married for 10 years and then now i'm not yeah and so i'm like you know whatever writing in my journal about it meanwhile he's banging half of the greater los angeles area i hadn't even held anyone else's hand at the time but i was writing about my little crushes and he got jealous and he um yeah did that and so ultimately um i backed out of getting the restraining order at the end i didn't get it took me another three years to to get one he begged me said he would get help and he did for a bit he did it got better for a bit again i wasn't going to take him back but we were friends again he was in therapy every day he was going to meetings he was sober so he said you know he was coming and doing bedtimes with the kids eventually and we were cordial so cordial that we were like oh let's do a co-parenting thing and i'm praying to god that if we're on camera and we have a specialist that's helping us how to co-parent in a healthy way maybe he'll take it in yeah maybe it'll make sense i almost thought that publicizing it would like be accountability yeah uh i really did it was crazy and codependent and so again it like worked and then it didn't you know i got a boyfriend and that really made him lose his mind how so what did he do when he found out that you were dating again just that you know threats um uh just harassment uh posting really horrific things about me online saying i was a terrible mom like just the worst things you could think of he would say about me the worst things you could think of about my family too uh just unforgivable stuff that ultimately i have forgift but um yeah really bad and it got so bad that i just one day you know the the calls and the harassment started at like 4 35 in the morning and i remember i was up with my son he had woken up early that morning and he was threatening to take the kids and all sorts of really crazy unhinged stuff he was saying to me and i just had it and i thought nope we're done and then he was like i'm coming over now to take the kids and i just said i called the police you can come but you're gonna get arrested and then i went to the courthouse and i filed a restraining order myself and i got one and that was the one of the hardest things i had to do um because you know if they passed a permanent restraining order he wouldn't have seen me or the kids for five years you know and that and that restraining order is still in effect today no it's not anymore what the twist of the term there's a lot of twists and turns yes so six months the restraining order was for six months and okay and um that is when um gcfs was called during cps was called during that time yeah apparently because this whole mess was public okay there they were able to see the gcfs was able to see the abuse they were able to see what was going on because he was posting it yeah and then he started like a cult um that referred to me as satan how does one start a cult i mean it was really just his patreon but like it was very cultish by in nature um yeah uh bizarre bizarre i mean i i don't even know like all of what was going on on his side of things because again i was just focused on like keeping the kids and i safe and you know like you know getting that restraining order and when i got that was the first time i actually started to heal because i had this like court ordered no contact so there was no like oh we can make it work oh yeah we can be friends oh you know just trying so desperately to i couldn't do that anymore so i started healing um but then he got worse from that restraining order the threats online got worse the cult the um dcfs got involved um and then he got worse from that restraining order the threats online got worse the cult the yeah and then the fbi got involved why did the fbi get involved you're gonna have to read the book on that one it got insane like it just like you think he would hit bottom and then you're like oh bottom has a basement like it just it was i think he was just being so self-destructive because he had lost everything but he couldn't stop and my part was enabling for those you know two three years i i didn't knowingly enabled but i was i by giving him another chance like i think a lot of friends and family members of addicts we want to help so it's like oh yeah i'll help you build your new business and yeah we can do a podcast together and oh can you do the music for this thing like just trying to make sure he's okay and like oh yeah we can still hang out as a couple of years and then i'm stopped preventing him from hitting bottom and when i cut that off and got the restraining order and had no contact and got a lawyer and was like i'm done and that was another thing i tried mediation he begged me let's just mediate and do it peacefully but then he wouldn't show up for any of the meetings and i'm paying thousands of dollars for him to not show up because he had no intention of signing these divorce papers have you calculated how much you spent in court i don't even know well not court it was mediation so mediation mediation is out of court you're supposed to you're the lawyer represents the two of you but when one person isn't showing up it's impossible so i hit bottom i got the restraining order i got a lawyer and and um we eventually ended up you know settling we had a court date for the restraining order and he it was really strange like that time in court because i hadn't seen him for months and it was really strange i remember sitting there in the courtroom hallway next to my lawyer and he comes in and he's like holding this briefcase and he's in this suit but he looks like really skinny and frail and like just like a shell of himself you know like no i wasn't scared even though i had a restraining order against him he just looked sick you know because he was yeah and i saw him like fumbling with this briefcase and like a flood of memories came back because yeah I remember that briefcase from when we first met. He used to like carry it around, you know, you know, like for whatever reason, I was like, what is even in that briefcase? Like you just have a wallet and a phone, like why do you have a briefcase? But he would just like had this little vintage briefcase and just this flood of memories came back. And then he looks at me and he's like fumbling with it. And he goes, I think my briefcase is broken. And I was like, yeah, I remember that briefcase. I said, you used to carry it around to like the farmer's market and I would make fun of you. And then we started like laughing for a minute. And then my lawyer just like smacks me. She's like, what are you doing? Like, stop. Like you have a restraining order, you know? But like, I don't know, in that moment, like he wasn't my abuser. He was like the guy that I was accused me of not liking water at the party. And like the guy who believed in me and told me to start making videos and the guy who I had two babies with, like he was that guy, you know? And, um, but we go. And like, he, um, breaks down to the judge right away. He's like, oh, I'm an addict. I can't stop. And I was like, oh, cool. Okay. So I don't really have to prove anything. Like he just sort of admitted. Yeah. And, um, yeah. And so then, you know, I think that it, it, after that it, it, it continued that the insanity, it was just, you know, one thing after the next, but my job was just to stay sober and not enable, you know, let him hit bottom, detach, you know, and just put one foot in front of the other. And like, I think friends got me through it. Like just reaching out to people I want and it being so public. How did that feel? You asked me earlier, you know, it was weirdly cathartic because so many women have been here. not as extreme as mine mine's like pretty nutty but some version of like domestic violence or post-separation abuse yeah um infidelity all of that like i just heard stories from thousands of women and because mine was all out there happening in real time yeah i mean i was having people making tiktoks going he fits the bill for a family annihilator which is when you murder your entire family and here's why and like they would show me why and i'm just like in bed like oh is that is that right you know i know it's not funny what in the modern tiktok era that's crazy right and so i was just like my algorithm was like full of like all these people with their commentary and their theories and then but also i felt i didn't feel alone yeah i almost felt like safer because i had all these people behind me knowing what was happening yeah watching the abuse happen in real time it was wild yeah wild you've said before that because i think the quote was like he wasn't hitting you that it was hard to categorize this as abuse in your mind at what point did you recognize emotional abuse as what for what it was yeah that's a good question um um i think that for me it took something really dramatic happening for me to have the strength to walk away like had something insane not happened maybe i would have continued justifying it oh it's just little things because that's the tricky thing with abusive relationships or dysfunctional ones or trauma bonds or whatever you want to call it it's like they're not black and white it's not oftentimes it's not punching in the face it's just little subtle things but then there's all this good so you're like oh you forgive the bad because there's all this good so that was hard for me so um it's hard to know like exactly the the moment i just knew that he there was a lot of manipulation or like there were things that he would do like stonewalling have you heard of that where it's you know i would like confront him about something and then i would like confront him about something and then i would like confront him about something or we would just have a disagreement about something and then like he would ignore me for two days things like that that that felt very painful i didn't really know that that was like an abuse tactic so there's things like that or just yeah it's like covert abuse almost you know it's not it's not even like screaming in your face that's like very obvious right it's um more subtle than that but um yeah what would someone need to do today to earn your trust romantically isn't that so funny i well it's funny because i've i've had one boyfriend since the separation and we actually broke up we were together like for over two years he's awesome so cool but just we wanted different things like he wanted to get married and have a baby and nothing sounds worse so you know that is what it is i i'm i like i love my life today um i feel very free very just whole you know i think for many years i thought i needed a man to be complete i needed someone i couldn't do it on my own i remember when i first separated i didn't even know how to turn on our hot tub it was he did it he it was a lot of levers a lot of things and but he did it he controlled a lot of things and then when he left i was like how am i you know maybe not perfectly but um and then like i have great friends too and great support group and family i have so much love in my life that i don't feel the need to like i need to get married again or i need to i don't feel that it will probably happen i don't like i'll just go to a cafe and i'll get asked out you know or something like that like it's just we live in an abundant world so i'm not really worried about finding love again but you're question was how will i trust to trust somebody again i know right that's tricky that's so tricky i don't know i i don't know and i and i feel so bad for my then boyfriend because he did nothing and i had raging trust trust issues he would like look at he would like sit next to a girl at a cafe and i was like how dare you sit next to her you know like crazy or like convince myself that he was lying to me when he wasn't he would be like do you want to just like look at my phone like i'm not lying to you you know but i was traumatized and so i felt bad for him but he was very patient with me and just understood oh you have trust issues like we'll work through that you can whatever i can do to make you feel at ease you know which is really sweet so i don't know maybe time and therapy or i'll just become a lesbian that always is an option you know thank you to miracle made for sponsoring this portion of today's episode do you ever wake up sweaty freezing or just uncomfortable the temperature in your bedroom can make or break your sleep you guys that's why we're fans of miracle made miracle made sheets are crafted with nasa inspired silver infused fabric that helps regulate your body temperature thanks to their antibacterial silver technology miracle made sheets stay cleaner and fresher up to three times longer than regular sheets that really appeals to me as someone that sleeps with a boy every single night hygiene and here's the thing they feel just as good if not better than sheets you'd find at a five-star hotel but without the steep price upgrade your sleep or give the gift of better rest go to try miracle.com unplanned to try miracle made sheets today you'll save over 40 when you use promo code unplanned you'll get an extra 20 off plus a free three-piece towel set they make an amazing gift and with a 30-day money-back guarantee there's no risk that's try miracle.com thanks to miracle made for sponsoring this episode hey we got some questions from um our audience and your audience just use from user submitted questions that we wanted to ask you as well as we have a little game agree to disagree if that's okay um you know just to end on a little lighter of a note i feel like we we talked a lot about a lot of really deep dark stuff today so first question well this kind of goes along with what we were talking about this is from mmb djdb123 do you want to remarry right now no the the thought of giving getting the government involved in my relationship is the most unappealing thing ever now a life partner down the road maybe but i gotta say i love not living with a man i'm loving that i've got some flirt you know little flirtations here and there i've got a vibrator we're good next question okay i don't know then we have this is from alan how did you get so funny all your videos are hilarious you know i have this theory that people either like have a funny bone or they don't type thing you know like you're kind of born with it a little bit yeah you know i think sure my parents had some issues with it but i don't know if they have any issues with it but i don't know if they have any issues with it but i don't know if they have any issues with it but i don't know if they influence on me but then why aren't my sisters comedians you know what i mean so i yeah it's like it's like you can either sing or you can't like yeah yeah you can go take singing lessons but you're not gonna be Beyonce if you're tone deaf you're tone deaf that so much I took singing lessons for seven years and I do you know what I mean I got like two notes it's my speaking notes right that's it those are your two notes those are my two notes I've never gotten new ones right so I feel similarly to comedy I know a lot of people disagree with me they're like no there's uh no I believe that right right like they're like oh no it's set a punchline you can learn it in class I'm like okay to an extent but I think it's just in you so I feel like it's in me and I saw that very young I was like oh I would walk into a room and people would start laughing I'm like cool I didn't even do anything so I should just do this for a living that's fun like then I won't even feel like I'm working it's great I was like I gotta find a way to make a living doing this or I'm gonna be homeless I have no other skill set I feel like I'm not like naturally like in person funny but I feel like if you give me enough time with editing I can I can edit things to be funny and one of my favorite things is like the rule of three like when you just keep with with the callback where you just keep hitting that same thing over and over and then the third time you mention it the timing has to be right I just I love that so much that's my problem in real life though I will keep going so if I'm if we're vlogging and I and I'm like not being funny at all I'll just have to like stop after the third time because I've edited all the other parts out because it's not funny I know literally and this is such a side story but in college with our friend group Matt would like if he made a joke that people laughed at he would do it he would keep saying it like so many times so then we internally would he say it like at the same sitting or like he would take that same event no no no same sitting within the hour okay okay okay multiple times and so that internally we decided that every time we're just gonna laugh and see how many times he will do it you guys did that to me I've never told you this it was Morgan's idea oh that's so funny just kept going this man could just keep going and you just egged his that's so funny that's hilarious I had to come clean right now that's slightly hurtful the time it felt like the time um that's so funny I will say her friend Morgan though has laughed at me more than any other person so I feel I like being around her questioning everything now I'm like did she just do that just to make me feel like I was funny she probably was that's hilarious okay wow god next up we have being a fellow mom of a neurodivergent child I need all the tips for navigating school and life that was a hard turn there but yeah hard turn um well I would just say you know try and get an advocate if you can you said mum you said mum so I'm assuming they're UK or Canada and I don't know how the systems are there but I would just say you just gotta fight for services for your kid and get as much support and help as you possibly can you know don't try and do it all on your own just like sobriety it's the same thing so I I just actually hired an advocate to help me get services for for my son oh awesome yeah therapies and um respite care so that's you know having someone come and relieve you for a few hours a day so you can go to the store or do what you need to do you know or even just be in the house so I can focus on my daughter because you know I feel sorry for my daughter sometimes because she'll want to play but then I gotta make sure my son's not going to the grocery store so I you know what I mean so it's like I try my best but so I would just say really seek services and then if you can find any sort of education model school I'm obsessed with those type of schools and I would say if you can try that because a lot of special needs kids are segregated their entire education career so like probably maybe in the school you grew up in I'm not sure but there was like a special ed class right and they're always separate they're segregated well there's a lot of studies that say if if kids with differences or disabilities are segregated as children in school they're way less likely into society way less likely yeah because they haven't their entire childhood yeah so right so I just found a school that my kids are going to be going to where all kids learn together so like the gifted kids the special needs kids the typically developing kids whatever you want to call them they're all in one class but they have multiple teachers in the class therapists aides so all these kids get to learn in their own way they all have support but my son gets to watch little social kids talk talk talk and he gets to learn from them right now his class is 10 other spectrum kids and ain't nobody talking to each other they're all like you know drawing their shapes and numbers and they're not socializing yeah so right he does so well with little chatty social kids he learns from them so that's that's my I have to imagine that's beneficial for everyone though even like the quote-unquote typical learners because I feel like with this kind of schooling we had growing up like sometimes like I wanted to be friendly to the kids in the other classroom but I didn't know exactly how to interact with them either and I didn't know and I think that that would happen sometimes where like it would upset one of those students because they because they unintentionally they didn't know how to navigate social interactions with them and so I feel like I'm like all about that I'm really into education like yeah I went to school to be a teacher she got her yeah I feel like I can't really claim it because I didn't I didn't teach I just was a substitute yeah you went to school for it so you have a passion for working with kids I do I that's my thing yeah oh my gosh that's so awesome yeah I'm all about inclusion models that's really cool yeah there's not that many of them too which is wild when you really think about it because it's actually probably the simplest format yeah I would think so and also beneficial for you know kids with differences or disabilities and like you said for typical kids to create more empathy and compassion and to just learn to accept people who may look or act differently than you it's real life it's real life yeah now we've got um a fun game we're going to play called agree to disagree and in this game you just say you if you agree or if you disagree and I'm going to read some those are the instructions that's the instructions all right first do it first as long as it's not geometry first up agree to disagree being single is underrated agree agree absolutely I love it but you know look at what I just came out of so I'm I'm loving life I mean I think being single is so much fun and two you can explore you know I can flirt with like four people if I want and now I'm not there there are people who have like rosters I've never done a dating app and I'm not no shade to the roster the people with like four partners I just I couldn't it's not for me you know what I mean can you explain what's the roster like they have like four people lined up yeah they're going on dates with four different people at the same time and actually like I feel like being intimate with multiple partners too and I yeah and so it's like the bachelor you guys it's crazy because I I know I know it kind of I don't know but I don't know I don't know who knows what really is going on certainly love island they're doing that no shade I'm not trying to slut shame or anything I'm just saying like I don't know it's not it's not for me but I think it's it's fun to just get to know different people and explore and be flirtatious and just be free like that's really fun it's fun and also I like being single because I it keeps me focused on the things that that really matter which are my kids and my friends and my art and like that's really cool right now in my life maybe when I'm a little older I'll I'll want something more serious but I love being single and I think it's underrated for sure agree to disagree a sense of humor is sexier than a six-pack ooh absolutely agree with that yeah I find funny so attractive what about you guys you know I'm so removed from that because we've been friends for so long we've been friends for so long we've been friends for so long we've been friends for so long we've been friends for so long we've been friends for so long we were our first we were the first love interest ever like I never ever thought about and we just not to that but when he makes you laugh does that turn you on I think I'm more the one that makes him she is way funnier than me okay and do you find that attractive uh like like in like in a I just asked friends I just think you're fun to be around like I just like I feel like it's funny humor is amazing for a friendship yeah but I think the key like you guys nailed it being marrying your best friend is key like that's what I was even saying with my with my ex-husband like we laughed all day I remember calling my mom early on I was like he's great I met this guy and he's great but I think he's funnier than me you know and I was like kind of mad about it but also that was so I find it so attractive I really value that though like if you don't get my humor if we can't laugh together no thank you oh my god so after my when I was separated I met another guy at a cafe I don't know what it is I think it's because I'm not on the apps and just whatever I was maybe giving off that energy or something this cute guy asked me out and I was like why not right why not so I'm so nervous because my first date in fricking 10 years. I don't know what I'm doing. But we sit down, we go to lunch together and he was just telling the worst jokes the whole time, girl. The amount of times he like quoted Borat and like Anchorman. Do you even know what those are? Are you guys too young? They are so old, these movies. Like I don't even know. But he was just, like it was so bad, so cheesy. And he thought he was so funny and he really was not. And it was just the whole lunch was me going. Yeah, I was making that face the whole time, girl. I was like. So then what would your opinion be if you're not funny? But he was hot though. Okay. He was hot, but I didn't want to progress. Okay, okay. Okay, I'm not going to ask that. Funny is more important than a six pack. That's good to know. I would agree with that. Right? It just is for me. Agree to disagree. You should never go back to an ex. Three, two, one. Okay, no. Ex-husband, I'm not. And next boyfriend, I'm not. Oh God. No, you shouldn't. Agree. You shouldn't. Why did you hesitate there? Because life is so complex. And I think too, and this book, like it's actually annoying that you'll see me sort of going back over and over. And as a reader, you're like, oh, come on. What are you doing? You know? But when you're in it, it's so hard. People rarely quit the first time. Right? They just, they keep going back. So I would say, I would say agree. You should probably never go back to an ex. You know, it's not black and white. I'm sure there's instances where, like my friend who actually lives in Phoenix, and I feel like such an a**hole for not calling her today. I should call her after this. But she married her high school sweetheart, or maybe college. And she moved to LA after college and they were long distance. And I was like, girl, that's never going to work. And she was like, yes, it is. Like, we're just long distance right now. And I was wrong. And he moved out to LA and they got married and then they moved here and they have like two kids. No way. Yeah. But they had broken up for that time where she was in LA and he was in Chicago or something. There was like a moment where they broke up or something like that, but they got back together. And so she took back the ex and they're married and happy. So it's not black and white, I guess. But as a rule, why did you break up in the first place, right? So I would say maybe move on, right? You shouldn't. That was a really long answer. I could have just said agree. You have really good answers. I like your answers. Okay. Agree to disagree. Money can buy happiness. Disagree. Disagree. If the way you said that, it felt like you thought you should say disagree, but you wanted to say agree. Well, happiness is fleeting. Okay. So I think we're not meant to be happy all the time. It's fleeting. That's deep. That's good. Right? Right. And so, okay, it could buy happiness for 20 minutes. You buy that cute new skirt or thank you. Thank you. You know, and you get that little hit, that dopamine or whatever it is. You get the car, you get the whatever it is, the check, but that fades. It's not, it's stable. So it could buy happiness for 20 minutes or a day or two, but then it doesn't last. Happiness is an inside job too. It's an inside job. I think. Also, there's a documentary and I'll shut up called Happy where they study happiness and they found that they like went all over the world to study like the happiest people and like what they're doing and they had said in the study, if you go from unhoused, to housed, if you go from on the street to having food, shelter, and your basic needs, your happiness level raises significantly. But after that, after you have all your basic needs met and then you get more and more, your happiness level just goes up just a tiny bit. Isn't that interesting? It is really interesting. Like it doesn't actually go up that much. Yeah. So I would argue enough money to be stable can buy you happiness. But after that, not really. That's true. This next one, agree to disagree. Closure is a myth. Closure is a myth? I'm thinking that refers to relationships. Obviously, yeah. Like how would you guys define closure? An action concluding, shutting down, or satisfying sense of finality. Ooh. I like that. The satisfying sense of finality. I think that's, I agree that that's possible. So then you disagree that it's a myth. I disagree that it's a myth. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. This one's a little easier. Agree to disagree. Everyone should try a stand-up comedy at least once. Ooh. Disagree. Why would you put yourself through that if you don't have to? I'm a comedian and I have to agree. I have to force myself to do it. That seems terrifying to be honest. I feel like comedy, especially stand-up, is like one of the most like highly respected arts where you're just like, that is tricky. And it's also just, I imagine it has to take so much guts to just get up there and do that. Oh, yeah. The first time I ever did it, I bombed so hard. I went to the comedy store in LA and I bombed, it was crickets. And then the MC got on after and was like, look, she's a 10, comedy, she's a two. I've heard that before. They're called comics, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But they're just brutally honest. So if you don't do a good job, you'll get made fun of for sure. Yeah. At least they didn't go, look, she's a two, comedy, she's a two. They could have said that. You're like, at least I was kind of hot. Do you think comedy is harder for women? Do you think the standard's different? I do, yeah. That's one of the reasons I stopped doing standup. It was like, I was just surrounded by, no offense, but men. Like, it was like a man's world, really. You know? Even my dad was like, why are you doing that to your face? Stop making funny faces. Like, you're pretty, do drama. Like, even my dad was like, what are you doing? You know, like, didn't like that I was a clown. And so I had to like rebel because I wanted to do comedy. But he, even in his mind, no, guys are supposed to be funny. Women are supposed to be pretty and a little more subdued. Right? And we're trained like that. So I had to break that. It's definitely harder for women. Let's do this one next then. It says, agree to disagree. Women are judged more harshly online than men. This is the online spin, not necessarily the comedy world. I would agree. I would agree. Would you? I would say in general, I agree. But, okay. But in certain ways, in certain niches, it is reversed. This one's interesting. Agree to disagree. Success is lonely. Success is lonely. Yeah, I would say. Like, it's weird because, and I'm sure you guys experience this too. You'll like be at a store or something and someone comes up and they're like, feel like they know your whole life because they do. And they feel like, they feel like they're your best friend, but you don't really know them. Yeah. So it's this like one-sided thing and then there's like a picture and like, and then they go away and you're just like, I don't know. There is something, I guess, lonely about that, you know? And yeah, being like known, I guess, is weirdly lonely, even though you have millions of people that are like following your life. It can be, but that's maybe when I'm PMSing. I mean, I don't feel alone in my life. Like I have good, you know, good friends and stuff. I don't know. I don't know. What do you think? You answer it. Is success lonely? I don't feel. Stressful. It's actually stressful. That's what it is. It's not really stressful because you got to keep it all going. Abby, by like dictionary definition, is an influencer, but she's like, I'm not an influencer. I'm a mom. I have my girlies and we, you know, go take our kids to the splash pad. And so like, I guess I'm saying success can feel lonely. Okay. I feel like, yeah, yeah. You feel like it can feel lonely. Yeah. Yeah. And then you don't, you don't want to see the numbers go down. So then you, and that can feel like, I don't know. That, that's, that sucks. And then you're like, what? It's like, why am I even freaking doing this? You know, it is. It's, it's a, yeah, it's why I think we should have, especially if you're in this line of work, a really strong, some sort of like spiritual foundation. Something, just something that grounds you and gets you humble. And knowing that your self-worth is not contingent on how successful you are. Oh my God. Like if a video flops with people like flop era, you're in your flop era. It's like flop era. Like I'm a human. And this video didn't hit 4 million. So like, you know what I mean? Oh, she's over. She's done. It's like, you're a huge, we're humans. No, we're not done. This is just like one stupid part. Like, I like your mindset of just, like, no, I'm just, I'm a mom and I am a friend. you know your self-worth is not contingent on your success and that's amazing so you know that's something that i i i remind myself of too you know that's good right yeah this is just whatever it doesn't even matter none of this matters this podcast doesn't matter if your book flops it doesn't matter thanks for giving us an hour and a half if my book flops it actually doesn't matter i was thinking about that i'm like if no one buys it like that's okay my kids are healthy like you know what i mean i hope it can help people and reach people but it's gonna be what it's gonna be i don't know that's what i think your podcast matters thank you it does matter and your book matters but it's not the most important thing totally right yeah it's like it's awesome and it probably people love it and they love listening to you guys and it's awesome but it's like whatever if it stops like you'll be okay yeah if i stop writing books it's okay yeah you know i don't know this is a fun one to conclude this segment okay agree to disagree you could tell a lot about someone by what makes them laugh oh agree absolutely i mean i wouldn't say i had a wildly dysfunctional childhood i was a pretty happy kid but i got into a lot of trouble and you know there was some craziness and i have a dark sense of humor and so immediately when someone else has like kind of a morbid sense of humor i immediately connect to them and like you know and i like and i know it's like i have a theory if you have crooked teeth you grow up without money so whenever i whenever i meet people with crooked teeth like mine i'm like aha like we just vibe on this like crooked tooth level yeah because i know you couldn't afford braces and me neither me neither and so like i just and it's the same thing with humor like what they laugh at just tells you a lot about what someone's been through or like in my recovery meetings we make the most morbid jokes like someone will just be like yeah i tried guys out but the rope broke and everyone's like you know it's like oh my god this is so dark yeah you know whatever they overcame and you're able to laugh about it so i think you can gauge a lot about someone from their human what they find funny yeah well laura thank you so much for coming on the show seriously the book comes out july 14th yeah correct yeah so everybody go check it out we'll put a link in the description so you guys can you know go buy it go support laura um where's the best place for people to connect with you yeah so anywhere you you have social media i'm unfortunately there i'm just there so you know if tiktok is your thing are you on youtube or facebook or instagram or patreon it's just my name laura clary and you can find me there amazing i i just want to say i gained so much from this conversation like i think that like not only are you beautiful and hilarious but you have so much depth to you and so much wisdom that it it's just it's great listening to you speak and you can just tell that you have you're so resilient and you've done so much work on yourself to get to where you are today and i've like read so many like excerpts from this that now i'm like so excited to fully like dive in and read the whole thing thank you so much that means a lot you guys are amazing and i wanted to not like you i was like oh married couple oh great why did i feel insecure i was like i'm just kidding but i was like dang we actually are married and no but no you are and you know what it's it's amazing to see and you've restored my faith in love seeing you two together really sweet thank you it's awesome to see you can just tell that you're the real one more thing the way someone talks to kids for me like you can just tell them you met one of our sons before this and i was like she's she's gold immediately yeah i i take i'm one of those people that i i i trust my instinct too much but i was like she has a good instinct i get like a first impression and i'm like she's great she's amazing she's amazing and then sometimes you're like no like i trust it to a point where it's like i'm like well no that that's not really them see they i know that oh i see you're too yeah okay we're we're actually similar like wait i i got the gauge though so yeah yeah anyway i just think you're awesome in the real deal thank you thank you everyone check out her book check out all her pages and thanks for talking with us thank you so much for having me yes it's fun yeah thank you for listening what doesn't kill you makes you hotter check it out all right we'll see you in the next episode