Clavicular Reveals the Dark Side of His Viral Lifestyle | PBD Podcast #880

- I was extremely subhuman. - Are these pictures online? Everybody sees the social media clav, but who is really clav? - Who is really clav? Well, it was this case that was caught on video. - You've seen clav. You've seen the stuff that is all over the place. How do you process that for young men? - Yeah, you're not actually hitting yourself with a hammer. - Influencer clavicular suffering overdose. - Are you comfortable sharing how many girls you've been with at this age? - Well, here's what I'll tell you. - Influencer clavicular to cut a deal with prosecutors. - It was this case that was caught on video. - Do you have contracts with these girls? I mean, like, is he going to jail tomorrow? - We'll start off with men, and then we'll go to women. I want you to score them from zero to 10. Pamela Anderson, Elvis, in your mind, you're thinking you're not the best guy in that room? Would you just say PSL God? - Yeah. - What does PSL God mean? Oh, buddy, that's gonna be tough. Who's the most beautiful woman in your life? Is there one for you? - You go up to a girl and tell her that you in your pants. - The idea of having sex is not that valuable to a man, or maybe to you. So if right now we went through your Instagram, how many DMs would you have of girls messaging you? - Um, this early in the morning? - 'Cause some of the stuff we've seen, the hammer, you know, hitting your jaw to make sure your jaw gets more chiseled. Walk through some of the advice you're given. - So that's something that is kind of just like a. - Brayden Peters, AKA clavicular, if you're, a teen in your 20s, you've seen him all over the place. He just whispered to me that he started really going live about a year ago, October of 2025, and he's blown up in 12 months. He's everywhere. And then also I said, you know, maybe to bring someone that makes sense, we gotta bring somebody from the 90s to see how much things have changed with looks. We decided to bring a friend of ours, Antonio Sabato Jr. I think he's one of the only guys that had a 90 foot picture in, what do you call it? - Square? - Times Square when he was with Calvin Klein. At the time, where was you, Mark Wahlberg, a lot of you guys doing your commercials. And then, you know, People Magazine named you 50th most beautiful men, people in the world. I think you were even on the cover of Out Magazine, which maybe there's a little bit of pride to be on the Out Magazine because the audience for Out Magazine is mainly a lot of gay men who subscribe to that magazine. This guy was so handsome that, you know, everybody wanted to be with him. Left, right, center, straight, gay, didn't matter. So, both of them, a figurehead when it comes down to looks. And we're gonna try to find out how much of this matters. We're gonna talk if your looks helps you with your career, making money, not just women. But appreciate both of you guys for making the time to come down here. - Thanks for having us. - So, who is Klav? What do people not know about you? Everybody sees the social media Klav, but who is really Klav? - Who is really Klav? Well, I'm kind of someone that is a very objective and observant person. So, kind of what was happening to me is I started off with just traditional, normie, you know, fitness related stuff because my parents had, you know, been doing some gym stuff. My mom competed in some bodybuilding shows in her day. So, I had a home gym in my house. So, I was messing around with weights. And I just started to do research into, you know, how to optimize my training, basic weightlifting stuff. And then as I got further into lifting, I started reading different forums like bodybuilding.com and a lot of people were talking about like Reutting. And I kind of found tests to be like, why would I be working out and putting in all this effort if there's a tool I can use to make my results so much more efficient? It almost felt silly to me to not go this route. And that kind of led me down this rabbit hole of, you know, all these different things like on the MISC forums that led me to, you know, reemphasizing my focus more towards the face than the physique. But it was still a very formative experience to have the bodybuilding stuff. - Makes sense. And by the way, just out of curiosity, was there like a compliment, was there something that you said, you know, 'cause in bodybuilding they'll say, girl looked at my biceps and she grabbed it. She says, wow, your biceps are so big. So they started training more, right? Or fighting a lot of times, a guy learned how to fight because he was bullied. Was there a moment that you said, I really liked this feeling of getting a compliment? - No, no, no. I had not really been getting, been getting compliments or anything like that. It was more so just, there was a home gym in my house, there was some dumbbells and I just kind of started getting into it. And it became something that was quite enjoyable as lifting is to many people for the first few years where it just becomes a part of your routine and you don't really ask yourself any questions. It's just kind of, oh, I'm going to the gym. And it just, once it's in your habit and once it's part of your routine, because I'm a very routine oriented person, like I eat the exact same thing for breakfast every morning, pretty much the same food every day. And if I'm in a good routine, things are great. But once I fall out of habit, it's disastrous. - So very disciplined, very routine based. Why the name clap? How did that come about? - So this was back to the bodybuilding roots is you would also see people who are working out all the time, having these perfectly optimized fitness regimens. And then you would see people as well who are completely untrained and they would somehow have a wider frame without doing any lateral raises, any of this shit, like spamming the side raises every single day. And what that's attributed to is something called their clavicle bones. And this forms their biochromial width. So someone with a really wide biochromial width, which is their shoulder joint to their shoulder joint, will always be capable of achieving a much wider bideltoid than someone who works out every single day for their whole life. And this is kind of like, the black pill, which is like genetic determinism that kind of was like inspiring and led me more to understand about, you know, genetics and development. And that kind of translated into like caring about the same things for the facial bones, which are a lot more important. - So that's kind of how the name came about. - Correct, yeah. So it was an acknowledgement to the importance of the frame. - Now, how can somebody do anything about their own clap? What if they, you know, is there anything- - Yeah, that's the pill. That's why it's brutal is because you can't, you know, there's a clavicular widening surgeries where I've seen people get like two inches added to their clavicles, but it's really not that effective or really not that accessible to many people. So it's really not worth acknowledging, but yeah, no. So that's why it's like, that's why it has the name. - How much time have you put into studying looks, all of this? Because the way you describe the face, there's no way somebody can give the breakdown the way you have given it. Without having put a lot of time studying it. - Yeah, this was all throughout the years of high school. - Oh, so you were interested in this in high school. - Yeah. - What face got, what person got you turned on to it? - It wasn't really a face. It was kind of just like a transition from traditional bodybuilding. And what sort of happened to me is I actually fell down the wrong rabbit hole with that, is where I was going to the gym and following this fitness advice that actually descended me and made me look worse. And because everyone's looking for an answer in life, whether it be spirituality was something I explored for a little bit too, whether it be weightlifting, because a lot of young men in today's generation are lost and don't have generation. So I go into bodybuilding, I'm like, okay, I want to make gains. So I put myself into a caloric surplus and I do what's called a bulk. You know, where bodybuilders eat a shit ton of food, they get really big and puffy, but that actually made me look worse. And I actually descended quite substantially. That was like that era of the picture with the bad skin and the horrible, that was kind of like during the bulk era. So I was like, okay, so this really isn't my answer. So what is, and then I saw people saying, spamming all these different black pill memes, like, you know, there's no gym for your face. Or like they would put a picture of like a supermodel who had no physique whatsoever next to like a gym cell was what it was called, put like gym cell versus Chad. So this was like a brutal, like brutal pill. - Yeah. - So the big deal for gym selling is like, you could work out and achieve this like insane physique that the guy on the right has, but you're just going to get outshined to such a degree by this guy. - On the left? - Yeah, yeah. Who's a PSL God facially, but regardless. - Would you just say PSL God? - Yeah. - It's just kind of like a term that we use on like the PSL forums to talk about like the different, you know, top models and stuff. - What does PSL stand for? - It's just like the three forums that people would post on. They don't exist anymore. It's now it's on looksmax.org, but yeah, so that's kind of where it comes from. Yeah, so those would be like all like the top model. It's just like dialogue. Like people will make memes all the time. Like if you're not O'Pri, like it's over, like just Ladar, stuff like that. - If you have a method of immersing yourself on studying a topic, right? - Yeah, yeah. - If this wasn't your topic, that you got obsessed about and you put that same energy into something else, what would that be? Is there anything else that draws you to it? - Yeah, so I, for a long time, was extremely interested in history. So that was something that I kind of dedicated a lot of my time to, but that was like, that's not really productive in any way. So I dedicated a lot of time towards that. I had an era where I was studying theology for quite a bit, but I just kind of fully immersed myself in all this because there's so many different avenues to explore with. maxing. to get to the level of expertise uh that i'm at now where i can go on multiple podcasts a week and i could talk for eight hours in a row and it's all original content because there's so much to dive into there's uh all the different social dynamics and all you know the the different um you know stuff you could talk about there with dating there's fitness there's grooming there's plastic surgery just all these different categories uh have to be fully understood you know yeah i asked the question earlier for you so you said something the guys are texting saying i think clav once said he would rather keep his hair than not be able to have sex ever again true you believe that yeah because if i didn't have my hair i'd be sexless if you didn't have your hair you'd be sexless and what do you call all these bald guys that are having bald cells you call it bald cells what does that mean well they're celibate they're bald they're not having sex you don't think the rock is having sex um just be the rock bro just be six foot two you know 260 pounds of lean muscle uh and you know a multi-multi-millionaire famous actor so like i don't really think it's even worth acknowledging like that because that's literally such a rare um you know deviation from the norm i mean there is there is studies done of how much women like bald men you don't think cope which ones really you don't think you don't think studies exist there's no study that so you don't think women like bald men at all no no no bald so having hair is a youth indicator not only that uh health indicator i would use perplexity uh ai for this and um i wouldn't necessarily attribute it to them liking bald men maybe they like dimorphic uh males but so they i think you might be referring to studies on dimorphism more or less which is like overall tell me more unpack it for me what's the difference dimorphism is uh being either more masculine or more feminine so it's a spectrum yep male to female yep um so it's ideal to be dimorphic and masculine but you want those you know that dimorphism to come from stuff like a wide and tall jaw like we were talking about with tom brady not necessarily being bald that's like puts you more into the ogre spectrum and being at the farthest end of the dimorphism spectrum yep actually isn't ideal so it's it's so good to be somewhere in the middle okay so so um bald so you think the the goal is this specifically just you or you think the goal the the idea of having sex is not that valuable to a man or maybe to you no it is but simply what i'm saying is i would i value um sex i think pretty much everyone does it's one of the biggest parts of life that's why it's this is so controversial all this stuff we're talking about but um i'm simply saying i wouldn't want you know the brutality that is being um you know a sub-average male being bald you know because my hair i think is a huge halo so i think just losing the quality of life and losing the halo effect that i get from my hair wouldn't be worth the trade-off when you're building a company you learn that trust is what closes deals you may have the best product but buyers won't sign without proof that your product is secure especially if it has ai vanta gets you compliant fast with sock iso 27001 and more and keeps you secure with continuous monitoring hyperbound a yc backed startup used vanta to unlock the fortune 100 in under a year snowfire got audit ready in a month and closed a multi-million dollar deal trust matters get started at vanta.com the halo effect wouldn't be the trade-off wouldn't be worth the trade-off yeah with the hair what do you put above hair oh i put face above hair so face is above hair what do you put above face once again it just comes down to like we have to kind of scale these things out a little bit so um you know like what what type of face are we talking about it's like if we're talking about a a chad level face that's eight out of ten um yeah maybe the person could get away without having hair like someone like jeremy meeks for example doesn't have hair but still is a chad and looks good but um you know someone who's a seven out of ten and has hair will probably still mock him um this is the guy that got a or something happened to him yeah he went he went viral like ten years ago five years ago yeah held him out of jail and now he landed a modeling contract from literally doing something that's uh obviously a negative he got you know a lot of positive reinforcement from that so that's the halo effect but if you're ugly and you go to jail it's uh perceivably negative it hurts you on job applications to be a felon but since this guy was so good looking it actually wound up helping what do you think should be a goal in a young man's life a goal should be to to find a direction and really max out any metric that you can to be as well-rounded of a person as possible you know to to slowly be working on a plan to build wealth a plan to be uh more charismatic and interesting um some some type of strategy to uh to look smacks and build your physique so i think those formative years that's what it's for you know because if you do all those things you could kind of go any direction in life whether you want to be a politician or whether you want to be um you know a journalist or someone who does uh radio and tv uh being better looking will will benefit you in in every single one of these paths purely on looks correct yeah interesting what what do uh what do your parents think of what you're doing right now when you speak to them what are they telling you i see you everywhere son it's kind of hard because uh it's unavoidable right and every single person sees it also their close friends and i do a lot of stuff that is probably not a great look on them sometimes so it's hard but i mean they think it's a positive thing obviously i'm quite successful from what i do so it's impossible to hate about that uh and they were immediate they found out quite early into my career that i was doing social media but it was already monetized to the point where i didn't have to work a job anymore um so they were just like okay it is what it is they kind of will tell me sometimes hey don't do this don't do this uh but it's overall positive which one of these maxing things that's out there you think is the most dangerous one to not flirt with you see the height maxing you see a guy from nigeria went to get a penis enlargement i think he ended up dying something happened to him what is the one that in your opinion based on your surgeries i would say self-surgeries are probably one of the uh most brutal things that you could do like see people all the time self-surgery yeah yeah self-performing uh like brutal surgeries and i'm not talking about stuff like you know doing like a fat dissolver that's got no risk of vascular occlusion um or something like that or like you know like a very simple procedure but i've seen people even try to self-install like um dental appliances like an msc and i've seen people try to cut what's called their medial canthus and with a knife down to give themselves like hunter eyes and stuff seriously yeah and it's all this like i saw a guy self-performed gynecomastia removal so all that kind of stuff is extremely dangerous uh and i don't think should be recommended so and it's called self-surgery self-surgery is just performing like plastic surgery on yourself what else would you put as a risk any of the other ones say you go to a doctor is there anything that's uh too risky to even touch like even you wouldn't touch it well there's a lot of stuff with pharmaceuticals i don't really think that anyone should be using pharmaceuticals like trt without the direct supervision and approval of a doctor it's the biggest thing because what will happen if you if you just decide hey fuck it i'm just going to start taking testosterone and go on trt and you don't understand how to prevent hair loss and all the different side effects that occur uh maybe you you go bald and you actually end up worse off that being on trt than not you know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know you know what i mean so you need that doctor's supervision um and that careful care anything you've seen on height maxing see guys getting their whatever they're doing to add additional six inches yeah so the risk of that is there's certain clinics overseas especially that you can have one of the screws you could get an infection from so it needs to be removed you need to be on three month antibiotic course while you're hospitalized you're in a hospital bed you can't move um you do the antibiotics and then they re-screw um you know the osteoarthritis cardiogenesis device so it's quite brutal so i'd say that's that's a little bit less risky to do things that are uh under the care of someone with medical licenses even though the surgeries look quite invasive and quite brutal uh the mortality rates are quite low the the risk of infections are quite low and even if you get an infection it's it sucks and it prolongs the recovery process but you're not going to die but once again i i'm not gonna i don't really like to mend so surgery in my opinion is this is how i define it for from a looks max a true looks max in context this is how it's always talked about it's meant to fix facial phallos not create halos right so if you've got a a nose that's like super super over projected um your dorsal hump is just comical and it just like detracts from your your face and it's truly like a huge uh you know block and you're sexual and in dating life Or is it worth getting a rhinoplasty? I think it's fair to say yes. You know, that's a very low cost surgery. It's not very invasive. There's not a lot of risk to it. And I don't really think it's fair for someone who is extremely good looking genetically to hate on that person for taking that route because you've never had to deal with celibacy and loneliness. So I think that's fair to say. But what I don't think is right to advise for is someone like Ronaldo, who's got maybe a few millimeters of mandibular recession to get a double jaw surgery. I think that that's probably not advisable because it gets to a spectrum where the risk to reward and the ROI is no longer ideal. So it's like a math equation. I would say that always do things with careful research and the supervision of medical professionals because this stuff that I talk about can be quite risky if done ineffectively. So I want everyone to be safe. And be healthy. You've seen Klav. You've seen the stuff that he's all over the place. When you see how much looks mattered back in the 90s when you were coming up and you getting all the eyeballs yourself versus what it is today, what Klav is doing, how do you process that for young men? Well, first of all, I got to give this kid credit for what he's doing. It's amazing the clout and the amount of attention he's been able to get at 20 years old. It's incredible, especially with the technology. So good for you, man. And I think he's a very smart kid that knows. We're already straight, and he's not afraid to speak it, just like myself. I think the times have changed dramatically. In my time, you didn't have social media. You had to go to an audition. You had to get hired based on meeting that person one-on-one with the team. It took a while. And so if you made it, you were competing with a lot of people in a different way. All you had is media, was TV. We didn't have computers, cell phones, and texting, and all the amazing stuff that you guys have right now and that I'm using, that you're using, everybody's using. So it's a different world. But for him to adapt, because right now, listen, he's talking about fitness. He's talking about being healthy. Those are good things to have. America used to be the greatest country in the world as far as fitness. We had kids going to high school, training, doing push-ups. Now this country is the fattest country in the world. So it's not like he's going like, oh, I'm better than you. I'm like, I want you to get better for you. I'm 20 years old. He's making millions of dollars every year by the fact that he's training, he's staying healthy, he's explaining to people what he's doing, what he's doing, what he's doing, what he's doing. And so I think it's a great peptides i'm sure and all the stuff he's doing so those are good things to have let me ask you even back then you know some people look at your pictures and they say you know extremely good looking guy were you putting anything in your body in your 20s no never anything i started doing trt with my friends at asandra dr asandra and beverly hills i love you man a few years ago because i'm i'm 54 and i want to keep training and racing cars up until then you weren't doing anything in your now never took never took any peptides never took uh never took any steroids of any kind i've done other drugs that i'm you know i'm not happy about i went to rehab those are pills and sleeping stuff but as far as steroids never have never have trained my how about how about uh uh surgeries never had any surgeries nothing on your face no just botox once in a while probably botox once a year whatever but um or every two years you know i'm pretty good but you know i take care of myself i eat healthy i train seven days a week my my entire life i competed i've done things that most people my age will never do i'm racing professionally right now i'm boxed i boxed last year so i always do that but i have to give credit to uh you know peptides i'm not i don't want to take them uh because you know i don't believe in them for me for my body but i give him credit for explaining and working for him you know but yeah i just started recently clever did it for for the audience that maybe doesn't know you because remember it's a it's an older audience maybe here so maybe share a little bit about your background and your background and your background and your background and your background and your background on how you came about where you are today um so i sort of came to an early realization in life that looks were the metric that really drive um you know a good quality of life or or a terrible one in a quite brutal reality um especially when it comes to dating right so um it just kind of made sense to me to try to optimize this as much as possible even if it seemed you know too involved even as if it seemed uh like you're obsessed with looks maxing i don't know if i'm going to be able to do that but i'm going to try to optimize this as much as much as possible even if i'm going to be able to do that but i'm going to try to optimize this as much as possible even if necessarily consider that a bad thing um you know because of how because of how important this metric is right um so you we have a lot of dating app statistics that's been published that shows like really really brutal stuff that like 80 of the profiles don't even get acknowledged so um i don't know if you guys are familiar with something called hypergamy yes um i don't know if you talk about this in your show at all um but with the nature of hypergamy today you really have to at such a high level and you have to maximize every single metric even outside of looks um that this just is a level of competition we've never seen before and it's funny the thing that you're saying about instagram and how it's it's something that didn't exist that was actually beneficial to people that instagram didn't exist because they weren't going to be competing on a global level with you know people like yourself um they were only really competing with that small you know 20 mile uh local radius of other guys um not international you know models and uh soccer players we saw like the one thing with the uh the one soccer player who dm'd the guy's fiance of five years and ended that relationship so that's kind of like a new thing and only seen with this generation so i'm kind of like you know the answer to this uh this problem is the advice i'm giving so and what what is the advice you're given maybe walk us through because some of the stuff we've seen the hammer you know hitting your jaw to make sure your jaw gets more chiseled walk through some of the advice you're given so that's something that is kind of just like a headliner that everyone loves to grab because it's just like yeah you're not actually hitting yourself with a hammer i don't bone i mean i box i don't like to get hit but you don't bone smash anymore i haven't bone so you used to bone smash yeah correct did you ever bone smash or no no i i want to smash someone in case i have to smash but you yourself with your jaw you never no i don't want by the way was that even a thing on bone smashing or no was it i never heard this bone smashing okay because i want to hear about it so bone smashing is something i've talked about very very briefly but because of like you know how insane and new it is uh that's what sort of gets all the attention when uh if you actually listen to me in a long form setting a long form context it's really not what i talk about at all i talk about quite similar uh stuff i'm sure you do uh about just traditional fitness and caloric restriction and all that kind of stuff so it is quite frustrating to me that that sort of like i've been able to do that i've been able to do that a lot of my good advice um because it's just so outrageous but walk me through your philosophy so if you're you're talking about maxing like what do you think the average guy because you did make a very good point back in the days if no there's no instagram you're dating somebody that's super hot in your local community you don't have to worry about 80 people dming them and taking your girl away from you today if she's hot you better believe the bigger guys are going to come and find her and snatch her away from you so that communities a guy that's an average looking guy could be dating a hottest looking girl in town but you're not going to be able to do that too much today so what advice would you give to young men today so um i'll give a little bit of a little bit more context to the equation here so there was um you know a lot of red pill stuff that was going around the internet a lot of like pickup artistry and people talking about game uh you would see all these videos like uh yeah the great where they're teaching like all of these really really unattractive guys how to cold approach women and you would kind of see that the one thing that was missing from uh the nuance provided was that different looks levels were going to perform much differently even if the exact same thing was said so there's no magic opening line or no magic uh you know posture that you have to maintain while you're talking to a girl really the results are going to be mainly driven by uh your looks level and that was just something that was never stated uh up until quite recently on a mainstream level right so that confidence what you mean there could be a lot of guys who are not the guy that you're talking about but they're confident in themselves you bring a lot of confidence into other people like because you know there's genetics right people are genetically you know for whatever family or whatever but you could always bring that genetics to a different level to the best level and also bring that positivity into their lives and going you know what if you're confident with your life you can create jobs around your life you can make money you can right because you know do you believe in that as well no you're absolutely right and that's why it all comes back to like instagram and all of the other things that you do because even if you look smacks even if you apply all this stuff um and you're not confident someone else you know somewhere in the world will also have done the same but they'll have great confidence they'll be extremely charismatic so it is quite unfortunate that you have to compete at this high level where literally everything matters so it would be ridiculous and ignorant for me to say that being confident like a good point right now that i just realized in my time our leaders or at least people that we looked up to for me were steve mcqueen paul newman my father james gardner marlon brando who do we have now that is leading in these movies we're looking great on camera we're coming out going you know what i am a leader here in this film and and bringing that positivity we have just a few we had guys that were racers boxers who would you know charles bronson but who would you say today is a man's man me i'm the only one left man there's not many man who who actually lives their life names that are man's man today well tom cruise man's man Tom Cruise is still doing it, you know, he's Tom Cruise is still doing it. Cruz is one of them. I think Brad Pitt is still doing it. I agree. And a few others, maybe. What does that mean? That are still living their life of being a top, but also maintaining their fitness, the stars that they are and their persona. When I saw Steve McQueen or when I saw my father walk in the room, you know there was a star there. There was somebody I want to look up to, I want to be like. If you watch Steve McQueen, these guys, I don't know if you've ever watched these movies, but these guys portray life in a whole different way. If you watch Bullet with Steve McQueen right now, you want to drive in that Mustang right now. They brought that class, the class, the t-shirts, the this, the that. They look great. What's different today? Right now it's like whatever. So yeah, we actually have a different way of phrasing this now. It's sort of someone called a mogger, someone who mogs. And what this comes from is a mog. It's alpha male of the group. So usually the person who just stands out the most, usually they're, you know, the tallest, have the best frame, the best face. So if you were to take like a group photo, they just, your eyes are drawn to them immediately because they have the best looks package. So that would be someone who mogs. It's kind of what you guys are describing, it seems like. Yeah, I guess maybe let me ask you, who do you think is today's man's man? Like if you were to say that is an example of a man, who would you say at 20 years old? Who do you look up to? Who do I look up to? In the entertainment world, like if somebody's there. Just period, who do you look up to? In any space. Am I correct in like, you're asking me who mogs? Yeah, if the definition of alpha male amongst. More like a mogger in today's context, more like just someone who looks good. Yeah, who looks good for you. Like who you look, but in the entertainment world, who you like, oh man, that guy. But I don't think I'm asking that question. Let me ask the question, Antonio. What I'm asking is, who do you think today is a man's man who is winning in all aspects of life, and not just looks? Or does that even matter to you? Do you even quantify that? No, that doesn't really matter. Because a lot of the times, like the overly like red pill, like man's man, like stuff, you know, smoking cigarettes and like doing all the drinking beer, like this is so manly. It's actually like really cope, in my opinion. No, no, not that kind of man. Talking about the man that takes care of his family, takes care of his loved one, takes care of his friends, looks good everywhere, gets up in the morning, four o'clock every morning, and works hard for his family, who looks fitting. And hungry for life, that guy, in everything he does. Just a traditional gentleman. Yeah, that guy. Hmm, well. James Bond, you know what I mean? That guy. Yeah, someone like that. Well, I don't know, maybe my dad. I mean, my dad works every day. Oh, yeah? My mom doesn't have to work. Yeah. Paid for, you know, private education for me and my sister. That's good. I guess all you could say. Your pops, your dad. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that, too. Can you say a little bit more about your dad? Yeah, so my dad started his own company back in around 2000. And I was born 2005, so shortly after that. And I have a younger sister who's, you know, five years younger than me as well. And my dad has, I don't know how much I should talk about it. I don't want people to, you know, kind of like go in and mess with his company and stuff. But. Yeah, he does some like I.T. consulting stuff, so works very hard. So independently successful. Correct. And what did you see in him to say, when I grow up, I want to be like him in what areas? Well, it was kind of just the thing about there was like no trust fund set up, nothing like that. And I was kind of raised in quite a similar way. I mean, I wasn't really getting any money from my parents. I got my first job when I was about 11 years old working for a scooter rental company. So I was walking around town, picking up these lime scooters, bringing them to my house and charging them, getting up at 6:00 a.m. every morning and bringing them outside. So the way that you're raised and, you know, that environment is quite important. So I'm glad he kind of helped keep me to the same standard that he was raised at. Otherwise, you know, a lot of those kids with rich families are quite spoiled and arrogant. And it's just not something that's it's just classless club. If I knew you had 14 years old, we were in class together. We're both 14 years old. If I knew you had 14 years old, you probably wouldn't know I was there. I wouldn't probably say a word to anyone. I was quite reserved growing up, especially during my high school years. Once that whole COVID thing started and people were starting to wear the masks online school, that was kind of like 2020 was March of 2020 was kind of like the last time I even attempted interaction, you know, during like my school years. I mean, I would go multiple days without talking. Did you graduate from high school? I did. Okay, good. Yes. I graduated one high school only. Yes. I went to five. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I went to five different. Yeah, I wasn't I wasn't a troublemaker or anything in high school. I would kind of just, you know, be in the library, mainly doing the research. Were you an A student? Were you like good? Yeah, I was a good student. Yeah, you're a good student. I can see you doing really well in school. Yeah, I did. Well, I didn't really. Sports? Yeah. I mean, the first two years, but I wasn't good enough to play in college or anything. But you enjoyed playing sports and staying fit and all that. Yeah, I did. I did. I mean, my main thing was getting away from from sports and mainly shifting into weightlifting because I found it to be more productive. Good for you. And my parents kind of told me, listen, like, you're not going any further in sports, like we're not going to spend the money, which is quite sensible. And I think like that. When is that light that clicked in for you to go? I graduated from high school, which is 18, right? 17. And then at 20. So you're on top of the world. So what happened between that high school and go, I'm going to do this for my life right now that something clicked and I'm going to venture into social media and more of like a brutal crash. So what happened? So right after that, I go into my senior summer, work my summer job, everything. And then I go into university. So I was a freshman majoring in what were you going to do? Just business administration. That was kind of like more of a placeholder type thing until I kind of figured it out. It's just too early to say it. When did you get comfortable with cameras? Like if if 14 years old, were there friends creating content? Were there others that were YouTubers in high school? Were there kids that you kind of saw and said, Hey, I got 828 subscribers. Was there anything like that in school? No, no. But in a weird way, I was kind of always comfortable with talking to a camera rather than talking to other people because I was talking to an audience that fully understood me just on like these super niche forums. That everyone had the same experiences is not like you're posting to YouTube and people don't really get it. Like, today's day and age, I have to go a lot further and explaining myself. But back then, when I was just posting on these like small like niche groups, it wasn't too hard. So there's content that dates back to when I was like, you know, 14 years old making YouTube videos. That's good. So there's a lot of different stuff out there at 14 years old. Yeah, I was just kind of recording myself more just like ranting and giving kind of updates. I'm not sure why I did it. But thank God I did, you know, it wound up benefiting me. But anyway, I go into school, and, you know, the fall of 2024. And I lasted about three weeks. And then I was documenting all the things that I was doing peptide related all this kind of stuff. Someone sent it in anonymously to high school. And how early? How old are you at this time? I would have been a freshman, I would have been 18 or 18. In college? Yeah. Okay, got it. So somebody sent it anonymously to school? Yeah. And then I get back from the cafeteria. There's all my different peptides, you know, laid out in my room with a bunch of like administrators. And yeah, that was the end of it. How did you get introduced to peptides? I got introduced to peptides, just from being on all these different forums, you know, a lot of like the ideology and, you know, different stuff came from people talking about it. And then me going a step further and researching just further than anecdotes. You really can't take people's anecdotes on Reddit and stuff and say, "Hey, I'm going to do this exact thing." You really need to be going to your doctor, you know, as well as doing research yourself. Because I still think that blindly, you know, putting all your faith into doctors who got their degrees 20 years ago is completely unideal. Absolutely. And I would even go further as to say that with the new ChatGPT models, I actually trust ChatGPT for medical advice a lot more than I would trust your everyday MD. But are you on TRT right now? I am. But don't you think that at your testosterone level, being at your age is the highest it will ever be? Like, actually, are you, blood-wise, on your blood work, are you low on T? No, no. So you want to be at the highest, what, 1,000 every day? I want to be around 2,000. 2,000 every day? 2,000 to 2,500. But doesn't that give you a little bit of, like— 9,000 to 2,500. Nanograms per deciliter, yeah. Yeah. So that's a lot. So— Something that's never been naturally achieved, so— No. You're right about that. So, yeah. It's like I could be at a high level. But you know that if you will stop, you'll never, like—you know, it will change—your metabolism is so aggressively attached to that TRT right now, at your young age, that you'll never have—basically, you'll be on it for the rest of your life. Right. So your endocrine system goes on pause, and the longer that you're on, you know, the longer that your LSH and your FH aren't being signaled, yeah, you're absolutely correct. Your sex drive has got to be—like, I can tell you, my right now, my TRT is every day. I got to have, like, with my partner, I'm having, you know, intimacy seven days a week oh that's good that's good right but do you feel like your age would be even double it because you're so much younger your testosterone is producing you know yeah yeah yeah no usually um i have sex like multiple times a day yeah um you know so i'm still there at my age because of the trt but to see him at his age going through that it's fascinating so let me ask what what is your long-term vision like do you sit there and say by 40 by 50 by 60 i'd like to be here is there a vision for your long term no no i just like to take things one step at a time because i'm still kind of figuring things out i don't claim to be you know some expert some completed package i think people kind of like the content that i create because it's still like i'm still on the journey of figuring out how to be more charismatic how to be more sociable and interesting uh when i'm talking to women you know all this kind of stuff um so like trying out different things like for example i did a stream yesterday where we're doing cold approaches like working on you know talking to girls and working on game so it's it's like i just don't know the way the world yet you know i'm 20 years old it's not my job anything does anything concern you long term do you sit there and say man i hope i get this part right and i hope i don't screw this part does anything concern you long term i mean i have my concerns about society not myself i think just the direction that dating is moving um he's a free flyer man he's just like living his life but i want to hear from him so so continue i'm listening so i just don't want people to start to form resent because of a harsh uh dating market and loneliness often does that right when you look at this statistic that two-thirds of men 18 to 21 haven't had sex in six months that is is really hard to say to those people not to be uh depressed not to be resentful what's the age of the opposite sex what's the age of these men that don't have he said 18 to 20 oh sorry i didn't hear that 18 to 20 okay yeah so um with this being like a large percentage of the population you just don't want people to do this thing where they start you know hating on women and stuff and that's cringe that's not going to get you anywhere just being super negative so we want people to to go on a different route which i believe to be a lot more positive and taking up self-improvement um you know what i mean i agree and i would be completely uh ignorant and just blatantly lying to say that yeah genetics do play a role in this and i don't want people to do that i don't want people to do that i don't want people to play a huge role and person a and person b are gonna you know be able to achieve vastly different results uh even with all the looks maxing in the world or no looks mixing in the world but it's good to at least start somewhere because you can marginally change your life by improving even 20 percentiles what do you think matters the most like if i ask both of you guys this question we got three different guys um one guy is five seven you know he has a perfect ten of a face like flawless in your uh standards he's a ten on his face but he makes fifty thousand dollars a year okay number two is a guy whose name is bobby first guy let's call him john the five seven perfect face makes fifty k a year bobby's the second one he's six four not really good looking average face makes 250 a year third one is worth a hundred million dollars he's below average face five ten uh extremely charismatic who's gonna do better with women between the three when you're building a company you learn that trust is what closes deals you may have the best product but buyers won't sign without proof that your product is secure especially if it has ai vanta gets you compliant fast with sock 2 iso 27001 and more and keeps you secure with continuous monitoring hyperbound a yc-backed startup used vanta to unlock the fortune 100 in under a year snowfire got audit ready in a month and closed a multi-million dollar deal trust matters get started at vanta.com well there's just a better with women in what way because the person who's confident he's super confident the the person who is going to do the best with you know securing one night stands is going to be the 10 out of 10 phase the person who might be able to have the most consistent long-term relationship might be the person who offers the most financial stability um so it's just like it's really depends on your goals what exactly are you trying to do uh and i don't think that necessarily going for one night stands and slay streaks i don't think that necessarily going for one night stands and slay streaks is something that's a productive thing so you could say yeah this this person might be achieving the result but the result is not not leading to anything further it's actually very thoughtful answer you know to to think about it that way because that makes if you are trying to go to a nightclub and get one night stands it's going to be the first guy what would you say to the answer here in it in nowadays i i say the 100 million dollar guy will always get laid automatically but the good-looking guy will find someone to sleep with now it depends what kind of guy that is you know if he has high standards you know whatever if he just wants to sleep with girls or whatever but also i think times have changed where girls in america girls are different than anywhere else around the world so we have to separate the two like european women or south asia they think differently american girls i think for most part in the society we live in in a realistic world only care about money are you guys ready for this yeah you know beta bucks while alpha fucks just remember that yeah say it again beta bucks while alpha fucks okay so what that basically means is um the guy with all the money the hundred dollar you know the hundred million dollars or whatever uh you know he's basically just going to be offering the financial stability to get that relationship maybe buying girls expensive items and putting them up in a huge multi-million dollar house um so yeah there's that method that but that's being a beta the girl's not actually physically attracted to you so the true love doesn't exist right whereas the alpha doesn't necessarily need to do all that they're just going to be able to you know sleep with the girl upon meeting them um without any of this effort involved also the alpha will also look for the true love if he finds do you believe that you will find the one for you then you will be with and only her intimacy and everything else um i'm a pretty optimistic guy oh do you want it do you want it would you yeah i think so i that's uh no i i certainly would hope that happens but just the way that dating is trending uh i think it's it's very difficult but i i still have it's difficult in finding that person is it difficult yeah just with the society that we live in but if you did find that person would you be faithful to that person only and just say no matter who was here like if it was true you would right yeah yeah but that's also a hard one too because i'm so incentivized with my career 20 years old i mean like you got the rest of your life well it's just like and you also have a community of people that that watch you to you know go out into nightlife right and you know pick pick up women because a lot of it is like a it's almost like a documentary and a showcasing of the world and and where we are with with hypergamy when i go out and do these streams and like because there's like a lot of like brutal black pills that that happen that you know you just never guess like for example do you sleep with a different girl every night like seven like for most part how do these girls feel like do they get attached to you they i mean i would think some of them probably don't want to leave you ever so what actually happens is the more sexual partners someone has yeah the more their pair bonding abilities diminish right and this is true what do you mean pair bonding explain that um so there's different you know neurochemicals that that release when you have sex right uh that are made to to create a bond between partners right so that you know relationships can last but you're just damaging this process the more sexual partners that you have as the male or as the female both okay it works in a bit different oh so the neurochemistry is different but it still occurs to a degree for both please continue um so anyway that that just is less likely to occur when you're in a promiscuous environment like miami where most people on the street if you ask them how many sexual partners have you had it's in the double digits so um it's quite unfortunate let me ask you a question antonio this question is for you sure so pre-fame pre-fame yes pre-fame no one knows who you are right are you still would you still be in your 20s pre-fame uh like what age did you become famous i became famous or known at 17 when i did the janet jackson video when i went when i was first on that video with janet was directed by her brits one of the best videos ever i was known which song which video was love will never do without you love will never do without you so that puts you up now yeah fame wise was it when you walked outside people knew who you were or not they knew i was like is that guy from the video okay so but no no right here yeah that guy right here that kid okay yeah i was a messenger i was driving around in l.a but do you think after that was it full-on fame or not yet so when would you say your fame became where you couldn't go anywhere without people recognizing general hospital so what is so that's 92. that's 20. i was 20 years old 92. yeah okay 20 years old so let me ask you yeah pre-20 yeah were you good with women were you a womanizer not really i came from rome italy i had to learn the language speaking italian was your first language i was born in rome came here you know legally in 1985. i had to speak the language my dating in high school how many girls have you been with not many give me a number by the time you were 20. he's 20 right now just maybe less than i don't know five maybe at 20 you've only been with five girls you know what my life i've been i really want to be with the girls i want to be with even like later on in life and specifically because my sexual sexually for me is everything i don't just sleep with anybody but let's let's stay on it's funny because most most of the guys you ask them that same question not many five you know yes these guys they say zero you know what i mean so that's why so but this is the part that's the part i want to go so you're 20 are you comfortable sharing how many girls you've been with at this age i couldn't tell you that you you couldn't no is it more than 100 is it okay so now watch this here's a question i want to go with when you went on your run was there ever a run where you were like running through girls left and right you couldn't go to okay yeah in that run of yours how long did that last how long did i make it last because i got in relationships so it's probably a few years and during that few years how many girls did you go through um not as many no no not that 50 80 30 you know even if i was dating for example i wouldn't date two two or three multiple girls at the same time i wouldn't so whoever i was seeing he you know i wouldn't date two or three multiple girls at the same time i wouldn't so whoever i was seeing he you know even if i was dating for example i wouldn't date two two or three multiple girls i would either see them for a short period of time so it wasn't many so this is kind of where i'm going with this collab just just so you guys know if you're wondering what i'm thinking about i'm thinking about how much the role of fame plays oh how much the role of fame plays so pre-fame with you massive right so yeah so the pre-role of fame um walk me through pre-fame clap post-fame clap how things change for you well here's what i'll tell you just between you know what metric actually drives the success looks or or fame looks or status i i would say that you know the level that i've achieved in terms of status is going to be hard to come by by many people um but it is ridiculous how easy it is uh to just open up instagram and go through the dm requests and there's probably about 50 to 100 inbound dms of of girls around the country uh what are the i'll call these girls yeah yeah usually that's just the demographic that i have the most so is it them coming to you you're going out i don't i don't send outbound dm you don't send outbound dm so if right now we went through your instagram how many dms would you have of girls messaging you um this early in the morning i'm not sure maybe tell me last week last week so that's the funny thing it got to the point where i kind of had to outsource it to someone else responding to them um so i couldn't tell you but just a couple dozen and what are they telling you usually it's just some basic inbound requests like hey but sometimes it'll be something that's quite direct like you know i've even had messages like clav you know i want you to come you know um i get those by the way so so they'll message you like that yeah just like blatantly and this will this will be like uh i've had girls message me like right off the rip like can you fly me out stuff like that and um it's kind of brutal because like a lot of the guys that are at a similar looks level are probably just like wage cucking at like a normal job like you know sending her snapchats all day meanwhile she's dming like a gigas you know famous streamer to get flown out right you know this is like a phenomenon that we've never seen make you move what would make what what kind of girl would make you move to actually fly her out have you ever flown anybody out or anything like that oh yeah yeah oh yeah okay so the thing about that is it's just a lot easier to do that with fame um within yeah once you're once you have like the level of status that i do you really should never like cold approach a girl again it's just not logical so so then in sales in sales this would be a way of looking at it where you have inbound calls people are calling you to buy your product instead of your calling them to sell the product it's always easier when people are coming into a gym saying i want to buy a membership i want to buy a policy i want to do something so fame so now i'm going to say i want to buy a membership i want to buy a membership i want to do something so now let's kind of walk through this because i'm going back in high school and i'm thinking about the guy that landed girls and what he looked like and then i'm going back in the military one of the guys that got more girls than any of us combined he was five six 125 pounds not good looking broke as hell he had nothing going on for himself he was very good at playing uh what do you call it um pool billiards he was very good at that but if we went out i don't know how many times we went out that he didn't land a girl and there was nothing about him that you would say he just would go out and he would go talk to everybody he had audacity and he had you know ways of approaching then we had a guy who i'll never forget this guy approaching that's a that's a key and i want to get to this i want to get to this with you because i want to give you both and i want you to give me insight on how both of you guys view this because a part of it is also both of your personalities is very different personalities from just talking to both of you guys then i had another friend clap this guy was the best looking guy we had in our group when i tell you best looking it's ridiculous what this guy looked like face perfect nose we're middle eastern you know middle eastern nose are legit you don't you rarely find a middle eastern guy with a perfect nose right he had the perfect nose nice small ears face was flawless incredible physique bodybuilder small little waist beautiful lats beautiful body dance better than all of us but god forbid if you went out with this guy and one girl gave him a look or was not interested his goatee was off a little bit he's like i'm not going to land anybody tonight so what how do you explain those two personalities it's it's got nothing to do with looks or fame how would you break that down can i have a pen and paper of course you can yeah for you right now you need a camera on this or you're just going to show it to i'll just hold it up after i'm done it's a quite simple uh diagram so this is called the oofy doofy theory oofy doofy theory yes all right bear with me here we're learning folks oofy doofy theory so oofy doofy theory right here so this is a a purgatory graph right here okay so basically what's happening is from about the 45th or really about 49th to 95th percentile is a huge purgatory zone where these above average looking guys are attractive enough to potentially get slays that are are less look good looking than them or maybe get into long-term relationships with their looks maxed but once they get into a relationship the girl knows that they have other sexual partners so they view that relationship as unsafe right the reason that the oofy doofy theory works in these five six jesters that are 120 pounds are able to get women is because the girl likes to dominate that you know relationship dominate all the different you know things there this guy was an alpha though clap this guy's an alpha now if they're if it's an oofy doofy it's not an alpha they feel safe with that man they feel there's nothing safe about this guy let me tell you why i'll tell you why they don't know that at the time but i'm going to tell you this about this guy there is nothing safe about this guy nothing he's maybe not this guy's girlfriends guys girlfriends wanted him there was nothing safe about this guy and he was super confident alpha like girls would go out with him they were afraid of losing him that's how he was i can i can tell you what i think about i want him to finish this thought i'm just pushing back a bit but the oofy doofy theory so women would actually go against eugenics in favor uh worse looking looks in uh in favor of security right so that's a quite interesting phenomenon i see that rather than dating their looks match the the person who's at an equivalent level um so if they can't so they would rather uh ideally sleep with a chad you know but if that's not possible instead of a risky relationship they want a safe option with oofy so so that part i get i don't think it applies to this concept because all i'm thinking about is this guy now walk me through the other guy walk me through the guy that's the best looking guy best physique best body lights out girls were crazy about this guy but he was a little bit hesitant and smallest thing would make him uncomfortable what do you call that um just someone who's high inhibition that's in a whole nother spectrum so you know your looks you can have all these looks you could have all this money but if you're not actually interacting with women in any way it's very unlikely that a woman is going to come up and and talk to you right that's just it also feels like i'm emasculating to have like a woman like hold approach you you're just like sitting there in the corner of the bar uh all reserved it's not an attractive thing so that's why even if you go up to a girl and tell her that you just shit in your pants uh you're still doing better and you have better game than like 99 of people because 99 of people are too nervous to have an interaction with a girl in the first place were you were you uh confident to walk up to girls when you were 14 15 16 like did you go to homecoming did you go to any of those dances no so i've always been low inhibition but i was very self-aware of my looks level at the time and i was uh extremely sub subhuman um extremely did you say subhuman yeah at what age like 14 to 16 are these pictures online because yeah yeah can you pull up clavicular's picture at 14 or 16 years old because i wonder what to you is subhuman where the average man may disagree with you when you spend enough time around great companies you notice that the best ones treat trust as a growth strategy not a box to check vanta helps companies build and prove trust from day one it's a gentic trust platform connects compliance risk and trust at enterprise scale vanta delivers a 526 return on investment over three years and pays for itself in just three months learn why over 16,000 of the fastest growing companies use vanta at vanta.com handcrafted across five italian factories with builder technology underfoot it may be the most comfortable shoe you will ever own introducing the all-new flb shoe finished in new chocolate carezza leather made to move built to endure designed to impress so that's you wow that's at what age that would be i believe 15 or 16 i don't know if i put you subhuman i just think you're a 15 year old that has some acne well i i would say i would yeah maybe i'm being tell me why can you maybe i'm being a little bit hyperbolic favor i want you to judge yourself here because i want to know how you view pick one of the pictures whichever one you want to go with you want to go with this one yeah i consider that like through what what makes you uncomfortable what you looked at at that age well i would say that you know i'm uh horrible body composition i was like a skinny fat type build um got it so physically not face no no face i mean horrendous horrendous acne and skin complexion um shaved head you know so uh bloated face just not ideal you know so i would rate myself in this time around like a three out of ten three out of ten or four maybe about four out of ten and by the way how different are you in that people magazine to the left versus today is that pretty much as updated as it is no have you done anything since then that was about a year ago so i'm um a lot of people say that was like the best time because i got super tan last you look ridiculous in that picture by the way so no really extremely so what's different between what have you done work to yourself here versus the other one we looked at specifically with your face well i'll be here for uh for eight hours if walk us through some of it but you know the the main highlight of the show is that you know you're not the only one who's been on the show so we're going to go ahead and talk about some of the things that you've done in the last two years and then we're going to get into some of the highlights of the show and then we're going to get into some of the highlights of the show and then we're going to get into some of the highlights would be i had a rhinoplasty about two and a half months ago i had an otoplasty which is um where they suture your ears back to make them a little bit less uh over projected to call it otoplasty yeah otoplasty otoplasty okay yeah so um those were like the the two plastic surgeries that i've had and the rest of it is a combination of you know different pharmacokinetics so like you know taking testosterone and um nothing with lips what's up nothing with lips no filler no nothing i am anything with jaw no no no surgery with jaw no no i'm currently in the midst of an invisalign course but uh no i don't i don't have one is what teeth yeah yeah i'm working on did you do anything did you have braces when you were a kid or i did but you know when you have braces and you you know have your third molar start to come in it actually crowds your dental have your wisdom teeth no i got them removed so that i guess that's another one do you look at anything in your face and you said i'm flawed here does any part of your face bother you today um i'm not someone who's like hugely negative and like uh you know body dysmorphia type type of vibes yeah i know what's what's ideal and i know where exactly i fall outside of the ideal but it doesn't give me like this huge is there anything else you feel you can improve like is there anything else where you like i still got some work to do so yeah i mean just my physical fitness like getting my physique back to where it was because that was one thing that really suffered uh because it was my lack of of consistency with my training um i'm super involved with my work and stuff so i i don't really work out consistently anymore so getting back into that and having like a strong frame again it would serve as a huge halo so let me let me ask you for you so one could watch on the outside out i hope you don't take this personally feel free to push back one could say one is manufactured a little bit right are you comfortable with that phrase that's fine okay one is manufactured looks one is you're born like this right uh did you yourself because the experience i had i was never the best looking guy i had height i know how to talk i i was very confident so i i didn't struggle with women where i could go and talk to them that was my edge and i was broke for most of my life i mean till 25 26 i'm just a regular guy that's trying to figure it out did you as good looking as you were internally and people not knowing this but years ago let me ask the question i want to see what you're going to say sure did you ever from the outside people will look at you and say my god freaking god that guy is so handsome he must be landing girls left and right did you internally deal with insecurities where you're like man i'm not as good here i'm not as good there did you have any of that first of all i was very humble i'm still humble in my life and the way i treat life in general but at that age especially at that age when i was like 14 15 i didn't speak the language uh i started training because i i followed my father i had a really good role model in my dad i wanted to look like him but you know i just kept training and training and and using fitness and sports to build up my confidence because i didn't have any friends in high school i couldn't speak to anybody it was a very different time so what i did was i'm gonna the will to survive in this country and the will that i have genetically from my family i left high school i didn't graduate from high school i went to new york when i was 16 i followed my career as an actor i wanted to do that and just training and get my body to look better and feel better and i was very insecure about a lot of things then i went back to high school and got my diploma later on i got it like three years ago so it's it's it's my will to do what i wanted to do that i you know you just you see that dream and i just wanted to make it happen but i look at your face and say man i wish my nose i wish my ears all the time i mean like i was i would look at uh celebrities or actor like i told you i wish i looked like that i wish you know but at the same time i was like so focused on achieving my goals that i just i never slowed down i never felt sorry for myself you know why i'm asking that do you know why i'm asking that question yeah because to me for whatever reason the best looking guys that were born with looks were the most insecure guys never understood that the best looking guys that were naturally good looking they were extremely uh what do you call it about themselves what's the word i'm looking for it's uh self conscious self-conscious about themselves it kind of there's a persona that goes with it i remember talking to another celebrity i said you're gonna have a problem because you know you the way you look and i was like what do you mean by that and i was like i was like because you know you're gonna get all this stuff given to you i'm like it's actually the opposite in the opposite it was like very hard for me to do everything that i had to do from from scratch it wasn't given to me just because maybe i was that insecure inside and coming you know coming to a different country different mentality but uh you know the people that i was competing with and everything were people that were born in this country they spoke the language they they knew about the environment makes you mysterious well it's also it's quite brutal because people assume success yeah uh if you're good looking right and and that's just something called the halo effect is how rude they assume that you're rude which you're not yeah right so you're competing against this uh preconception that people have because of your looks level right and unfortunately if you're someone who's reserved as as a good-looking male uh and and people are going to assume neurodivergence right off the bat uh if you're not you know being super extroverted talking all these girls being like the you know the most sociable guy in the room that's just expected of you so if you don't fall within this yeah they always say like what a nice guy you are i'm like what do you mean i'm like because it's like you know good-looking guys are always mean i'm like i don't want i'm like that's what the persona is with people that take care of themselves physically and they walk in the room going i take care of myself they always assume well he's not a nice yeah listen there are guys like that as well that are good-looking super cocky and arrogant and yeah the moment they lose their looks they they lost their identity because their entire identity is around how handsome this happens to women a lot when if there's not a deep strength and confidence the moment looks goes they all of a sudden do dumb things and you're like wait a minute why are you hanging out with an 18 year old why are you hanging out with a 22 year old it's it's their way of saying when i was 18 20 years old everybody wanted me so it's that desire to go back to it but let me stay on this i want to ask you guys both a question and this is just purely prompted based on a conversation we had so which of these do you think helps more fame money uh your looks confidence personality you know your when i say looks you can put physical you know maybe even body versus not face or face versus not body but which of these you think automatically attraction comes even higher fame money looks confidence where would you put that i don't really think we could answer that question without hyper specifics on like percentiles right so are we talking like looks as in you know above average looks someone who's like a high tier facially like put all of them in the top 90 top tier 90 percentile plus so fame 90 percentile money 80 90 percentile looks 90 percentile confidence 90 percentile looks you would put looks one well most important for what exactly landing girls looks you put looks number one okay so if everything if all is equal yeah of course money is going to start to matter more when we're talking you know a hundred million dollars but i always find it funny when i'm i do these interviews because they'll give such an absurdly exaggerated number for like the fame and the money or like use myself as an example of like the the status when it's just not really going to be something that's that's realistic for 99.999 percent of people so it's not really worth acknowledging i think we need to take things back to reality and even talk about like a salary of you know a hundred thousand dollars something similar that's fine but that's 80 percentile right even use that is that that's 80 100 100 000 is 80 Okay. Okay, so a little bit higher than that. You're in the top 20% of income earners at $100K. Okay, understood. But at what age range? Does that matter or no? Take 25, 35, anything between 20 to 35. And the other thing about money is unless we're talking about these absurd figures, it's not really going to make up for a lack of looks, right? So unless we're talking about $100 million, even if we go to the 95th percentile and someone's making maybe $750,000, that's not different enough to really be able to carry it for this looks disparity. And is this, Clive, is this mainly what types of girls? Because, you know, is it just landing girls or is it landing higher quality girls? Because there's qualities in it as well, right? I mean, you can go in a Miami because you said you came from Jersey, then you went to L.A., you were there for a couple months, and now you're in Miami, right? So it's a different. It's a different market being here. Is it landing girls at nightclubs or is it getting somebody that's famous, that's messaging you saying, Clive, I'd love to hang out with you? I actually don't really use my nightlife experiences in Miami as much of a testament. I think Miami, it's funny that people have this misconception about Miami. The girls that actually live in Miami are not really that good looking. A lot of it, this is just a tourist hotspot. So the hottest girls that you'll meet in South, Florida are vacationing for the weekend. You know what I mean? So I use my experiences from what I'm doing, like my college tour, for example, and I'm in a small town in North Carolina, for example. The experiences really aren't that much different in a lot of different parts of the country. Where did you see the most beautiful girls around the world? Most beautiful girls around the world? Probably in like South of France, something like that. Yeah. South of France. Yeah, I agree. I think for the original question, I think the beauty of somebody walking in and that attraction will get you in the door. I think the confidence, like we see a lot of these reality competition shows when somebody walks on stage and they have that confidence about them. And you see all the judges going, yeah, there's something there. And then the performance is there with it. So I think the confidence that people have coming into the room, the way they're dressed, the way they are, I think it's important. And I think that will get you. Yeah, everything matters. So, so. And also that's the other phenomenon you come back to is the halo effect, right? So if someone walks in and they're super good looking, good posture, you know, they seem super confident, totally acceptable. But you walk in that same way, but you're not an attractive male. They're going to say, oh, this guy's arrogant. This guy has an ego, all that kind of shit. So that's why it's really brutal. Yeah. You know, there's almost an expected persona behind every looks level. Yeah, because we have so much social stuff in front of our faces, how everybody wants to look like this and wants to look like everything else that they are. I try to promote in my TikTok places where just be yourself, the best of you, because don't try to be like, I'm not going to try to be you. You're not going to try to be me. We're two different people. So, but if I. Well, kind of. I mean, like, kind of. I feel like you, you kind of. No, we're similar. Don't get me wrong. I think I could, we could hang out. So you kind of logged you? Yeah. I mean, like the goal is kind of like to be like what you were doing, you know, like doing. Yeah, no, no. We're similar. We're similar. We're similar. But I also. I also think that in my life, I'm not going to go in. My life is different than yours in a sense. I already lived your life in a lot of different ways. But right now we are similar. We like the same things, you know, but at the same time, I wouldn't sleep with a different girl every night. That ain't going to happen. If I'm going to sleep with somebody who's going to have a connection, like the next day I would get, I get worried to be sued by her. Do you have contracts with these girls? I mean, like they could say anything they want and pretend like, I mean, there's so much dangerous with meeting a stranger and having sex with them. Correct. You're absolutely right. I mean, they could say anything. Oh, he's, he did this. You're going to jail tomorrow. You know, that's why I like not to be, not to be vulgar or anything, but like on the streams, it's nice because you can, you could say to a girl like, Hey, do you want to have sex later? Yeah. And then you have that. You're protected by it. Right there. You have the footage. Yeah. You also have your liability contracts being very diligent with IDs. Oh, that's another thing that that's crazy nowadays is you ask your girl how old she is. She could lie to you first of all. And even if you're. Yeah. A step more diligent, you say, Hey, can I see your ID? They'll present you with a fake ID a lot of the times. And this happened to me not too long ago as it went viral on X. But I noticed the ID was fake because my previous job experience working a doorman at a bar and it turned out the girls were actually too young. So we said. You got to screen them. Like you got a screening. How were you able to tell? Just because you know. The ID was fake. So the, the, the way that the fake ID printers work, their edges are pretty rigid. So I felt that and the picture looked like it was off. So I was like, get out of here guys. And then they finally admitted it. And I was like, I was trying to explain to them, you could really get someone in trouble by, by doing stuff. And what did they tell you? Just don't care. They have no, I have no. So, so when he said, you said he mocked you, what did you mean by he mocked you? Um, so yeah, you, you really can't be a looks max here. I feel like it can't be blackmailed if you can't acknowledge people mocking you. So like, I think, and like all this stuff, uh, I would say that you mocked me, you know, and that's, that's kind of brutal because my whole thing is talking about looks maxing and like. Having all these routines and you know, he's saying like, this is more of a, like a genetic thing. So like, that's, that's kind of brutal. What do you mean genetics thing? So like, I have like a whole like looks maxing thing I do. I take all these different, um, pharmaceuticals, like TRT and all this stuff. And you're saying, yeah, never took any, anything ever. Yeah. Yeah. Never looks maxed. And I still, my looks maxing were different than yours. My looks maxing was training at the gym. So you're saying the fact that he's saying. I didn't. I didn't need all the stuff that you took and you did. That's a form of mugging. Well, just someone who looks better than you, no matter what, um, mugs you. But I'm saying it's especially brutal when there's less effort put in by that person. And so is that, do you look at that as a negative or just a behavior? It's just, it's just the reality. But like what happens is if you get mugged, uh, and I'm sure this is like kind of true with most people. They just don't know why they feel off. Like if someone is much better looking than you. You just feel the mug internally. And it just like, it really like has a soul crushing effect and like kind of like brutalized. You feel that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So me and my buddy hacks the other day, we go to the gym and there's just some guy that like walks in and he was like six 10 with a 24.5 by deltoid, 360 pounds, like massive frame. And like, we just, we felt the mug like all the way across the gym to the point where I just, I just left. But was he trying to do that to you personally? Or is it? No, no, no. But. The thing is like, you know, when you just feel the mug and that's the only thing that's, you know. Is that your insecurities that come when you, is that your insecurity when you saw him like that? Or was he trying to be just, why would I want that? Like, you know, internal, you know, pressure. Why would I want that? I'm not here to mug anybody. And I'm a humble man. And I wrote threads about this, that if I was in a bar and like, you know, David Gandy. No, I don't. Can you pull up who David Gandy is? Yeah. And so Gandy is a, one of these guys, he did a Dolce, Dolce Blue. Yeah. I wrote a thread back in the day and I'm sure that someone. Oh yeah. Yeah. On luxmax.org. Yeah. Instead of Gandy walked into the same bar as me. Yeah. I would just leave immediately. Why? Because just like, if you feel the mug, it's just going to like disrupt your flow. So we can never hang out and be buddies, me and you? Um, I don't know. We can't go streaming together, bro. I was going to ask you to go streaming tonight. I actually want to know why though. Well, I do have, I mean, I, I could cope. I could cope with like the status bill. So like that's. No, but just man to man, like let's hang out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but like I'm saying, like, it's a little bit less brutal because like I can mug and like other metrics now, but like. Is it because in your mind you're thinking you're not the best guy in that room and there's somebody ahead of you. So I may as well leave because I can't compete with them. Well, thank you. I appreciate you saying that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, it's, it's brutal, you know? Oh man. No, no. I'm your bud, man. Interesting. Okay. So, so then. Well, thank you. In your mind. In your mind, every man's goal should be mugging everybody in the room they're with. Yeah. I don't think that should be like, you know, the end all be all, but it's certainly like real and it's certainly worth acknowledging that it feels good to, to be the best, you know what I mean? And you're only going to be resentful and you're only going to hate on people that are above you. Oh buddy, that's going to be tough, man. If it's all about the looks, it's going to be tough longterm because if, if the, if the. Right. That's the reality. No, but it's. But it, I mean, is Trump the best looking guy in the world is, you know, um, he mocks pretty hard. So there's different things for becoming like a, the president that, that really matter for, for looks and the stuff that I talked about. And one of the biggest ones is the facial width to height ratio. So having a super wide face like Donald Trump, uh, gives you a lot more of like a masculine, uh, and like a lot more of like an assertive, uh, assumed personality. And also you look at the fact that all people are, you know, they're, they're, they're not all presidents were above, you know, six, one, except like two or three of them. Um, the height plus the FWHR pill. That's why Trump. So I want to get in. So why don't we do this? I got a bunch of pictures here. I'm going to show you guys. And can you grab a pen and paper and I want you to score them from zero to 10 and I don't want you to answer it here. I'll give you a clear one here for you. I'll give it to you. Yeah. Thank you. And I want you to be before. And again, you can say 9.3. I have the paper already. 9.8. I wanted that. All right. All good. 9.8. 9.3. nine point whatever, 8.6, and I'm curious to know, why your answer is like that. So some of the ones we're going to go through are old school. We'll start off with men, and then we'll go to women. I ain't going to lie. I don't know most of these people. Yeah, you're not going to know. So I'm going to show it to you here. So maybe look at the pictures I'll show it to you, and just tell me what you think they look like. Benjamin Netanyahu. Yeah, here we go. Go with this one here. Patrick Swayze. Oh. Write the score down. Patrick Swayze. If you can pull up the pictures as well while I'm doing this so you can see a lot of them. Maybe a picture that's more of like a frontal profile. So can you guys in the back just pull up Patrick Swayze? Here we go. Type in Patrick Swayze, and let's see what score he gives them. This guy was a legend in our time. Oh, yeah. So go to. Yeah, okay. So I would just. No, no, go back. Go back. There was an image that was. Yeah, we're good. Back the. No, no, back the one with the red shirt. Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, so. Write your score down, and we'll go to it. I would say, Chad, 8 out of 10. Okay. You said 8 out of 10. Patrick's. 8 out of 10 for me. He's a 10. Oh, he's a 10, boy. Why'd you say 8? There's no one that's face is completely perfect, right? I'm sure you can find different facial ratios of his that are slightly outside of the ideal, one of which would be like his gonial angle is a little bit too steep, right? So there's that. So that would automatically make it so the person is not a scientific perfection. Okay. So I'm going to put clap. I'm curious to know what you end up scoring the highest. You gave him a 10. Oh, because I know Patrick, and he's the best. All right. Let's go to the next one. Where's this guy? What's his name? Patrick Swayze. Patrick. Here's the next one. This guy. We should watch. Oh. Elvis. You know who he is. Oh, man. You're killing me now. I'm actually going to give him a 4.75. 4.75 for Elvis? Yes. And what are you going to give him? We're talking about that time right there? This is peak Elvis. Right there. Peak 10? 10. Peak Elvis. 10. 10. So you give 4.75. Why is Elvis 4.75? Oh, yeah. I consider that a below average face, certainly, because the face lacks angularity. So you don't really see a lot of projection and depth because of the lack of forward growth in the maxilla. That's why the face looks extremely flat. So he's got a flat face, is what you say? Yeah. So it's called a lack in maxillary forward development. This usually occurs from people mouth breathing during their development. The face actually grows down rather than forward. Well, I say Elvis. Dr. Mike Mew, praise be his name, was very influential because maintaining that proper tongue posture when you're developing human, it's extremely important. Wow. Yeah, he was amazing. He was a 10 in your eyes? Okay, next one. Oh, yeah. Sean Connery. Oh. You want to pull up some of his pictures? Sean Connery. Young Sean Connery. Looks, right? Looks. Yeah. I was about five. Um, well, maybe six. When you're building a company, you learn that trust is what closes deals. You may have the best product, but buyers won't sign without proof that your product is secure, especially if it has AI. Vanta gets you compliant fast with SOC 2, ISO 27001, and more, and keeps you secure with continuous monitoring. Hyperbound, a YC-backed startup, used Vanta to unlock the Fortune 100 in under a year. Snowfire got audit ready in a month. And closed a multi-million dollar deal. Trust matters. Get started at Vanta.com. I'm going to say, I'll give that like a 7.75. Really? Yeah. Interesting. Why 7.75 Sean Connery? I think he's a little less good-looking than the other guy, just due to the Fino being slightly less ideal. You know, the other guy with the blue eyes. Patrick Swayze? Yeah. And the undertones. The undertones, the color. I love how he says the other guy. We know who these guys, but this is why I love that I'm doing it with you, because it's a generation you don't follow. So what do you give Sean Connery? I give him, I was going to go a 6, but I'll go with a 7, because also he was a bodybuilder. He was, wasn't he Mr. Universe? He did something before. You think about Steve Reeves? No, no, no, no. He's Norwood. No, but him, he was a bodybuilder. Was he? Was he? Sean Connery was a bodybuilder. There he is. Oh, there you go. You guys know the Norwood Reaper? Who? You know the Norwood scale? I don't. So like there's a meme called the Norwood Reaper, where, you know, it sneaks up on you and your hair starts to fall out and starts to recede, and it forms like the Norwood pattern. There's different stages of the Norwood scale, which is like Norwood 1. It looked like he was about Norwood 1 or Norwood 2. Is that good or bad? It's bad. Any hair loss is bad. So that's why I've been taking hair loss medication since the day I turned 18. So you've been taking hair loss medication since 18? Yeah. Really? And any specific? Any specific one? Dutasteride. Dutasteride. Wow. And you take that. Have you seen a difference? Well, no. That's the good thing. Is your father bald? No. My father has it. Oh, you're good. Oh, your mother. Was it your mother's father? Is he bald? Yeah, but still, DHT is not an androgen you want in your body. Paul Newman. That's my man. Do you want to call him Paul Newman? Yeah, he's a terrible name. One of the biggest Hollywood names, married to his wife 50 years. That's Paul Newman. Hustler. The guy's got his own. I'm going to give him like a 7. Okay. So Paul Newman, a 7. What did you give him? You give him a 10. He gave him a 10 for me. So he's got negative canthal tilt. Looks like the upper third is a little bit too big. What is that? Beautiful eyes. Look at that. The upper third would be your forehead. And the canthal tilt is the angle between your lateral and medial canthus. So ideally, you want your eyes to be slanted positively, slightly. That shows strong zygomatic support. And strong orbital bones. But he's got the lack of zygomatic support and infraorbital support, which causes that. So you give him a 7. Yes. All right. Tom Brady. Tom Brady, I would say, is. I'm going to go 7.5. Why 7.5? So he's got an extremely masculine total facial width-to-height ratio. That really tall. Aristocratic-style skull. It's very masculine. You know, you have the tall jaw and a huge lower third. Really gives him a huge halo. As well as maintaining. I give him an 8. Because I think if he worked out harder, I think he'd change his body even better. Because he's always been, like, kind of loose and tall. I think his face is, you know, it's gotten better. I think he could put some more work in the gym. He looks giga-chad in the Gucci thing. But it's just, like, brutal. Yeah. He could literally be Tom Brady. Tom Brady and your girl will cheat with. Yeah, look at that. Yeah. So you think about that. It's like, oh, you know, I think about personally. I'm doing. I'm really successful. I'm looks-maxing. I got to above average. I'm making this money. And I'm like, oh, fuck. Like, Tom Brady. Tom Brady mugs me in all these different metrics. And it still happened to him. Still happened to him. It's over. To a guy nobody knew that was a jiu-jitsu guy. Michael Jordan. Oh, I'm. I'm going to say, like. I'll say, like, pretty dead average. Say, like, 50th percentile. Like, 5 out of 10. Yeah. 5 out of 10? Yeah. And what does that mean to you when you say 5 out of 10? Average. Just an average-looking guy? Yeah. Middle of the road average. Any specific reason? Can he do anything to get better? No, let's take a look. That's a different Jordan. Yeah, that one. Yeah. Is that the picture we want to use? Use a. The one on the right. So his jaw is very steep. Right? So the mandibular plane, we ideally want that to be lower so your jaw is taller from the front. And your side. You don't want your jaw to be angled down. Got it. You want it to be lower so your ramus grows down. So you want this to be lower to match this. Correct. It's more masculine. Okay. Girls have an ideal that falls a lot closer to that. He's got a great smile. I met MJ. He's the best. I mean, when he was lean and playing the top of the game, he was a good-looking man. Tall, you know. Was it 6'6", 6'7"? 6'6". Yeah, 6'6". Great smile, great teeth, great persona. You know, he's just very slender and lean. So out of the basketball players, he's one of the most good-looking guys. Here we go. James Dean. Oh, my boy. I would say. Oh. 7. Yeah. James Dean is a 7. Maybe even less. Maybe less. Actually, a little less. The ears of James Dean were. You're going to give James Dean less than a 7? Yeah. So he's a bit of a skull cell, which means. Do you know what SFS means? No. Short Face Syndrome? Short Face Syndrome? Short Face Syndrome? Yeah. He has that? Yeah. Wow. Can you type in Short Face Syndrome? Never heard of that before. No, me neither. We're learning stuff today. I know. We are. Very interesting. So go to Images. Wow. Short Face Syndrome. I would use this image of the guy with the. Oh, wait. They can't see. It's in the second row from. From the left. One down. They're like the white. Yeah, that one. That one. Got it. Yeah. So SFS is. That's sort of what he has. You notice how the chin and the lower third. James Dean has that. Yeah, yeah. So what score you give James Dean? Maybe like. I still think he's above average. Maybe like actually closer to a 6. 6? Yeah. I gave him a 7. And for you, it's what? What's the reasoning for that? These are two of the best looking guys right now. You know, we're sitting here going through everybody. I'm judging. I'm judging James Dean. That's cool. James Dean, just so you know, was. He was the man. He only made three movies. Three movies. Just to clarify, though, like when you do like research from like an outside perspective into like what I do, is that sort of like what you came across that like the best? Because I don't really acknowledge that or that's what like, you know, one of the best looking people like I consider my looks level to be like, you know, slightly above average, but nowhere near. What do you think you are? Really? Yeah. Like I don't like consider myself like, oh, you know, like these top. Seven? I don't want to give it a decile rating. I think I'm above average looks, but I don't think I'm like, you know, even able to be compared to like these Hollywood actors and thrown into this. Like who? Like, you know, I wouldn't place myself in the same thing as like Brad Pitt and all these Hollywood guys. I just think that they have, you know, stronger facial harmony than me. I don't think so. Facial harmony. Wow. Okay. So maybe, but it's interesting. So if you're giving these guys scores, would you be above a seven in your eyes? You think today you're above a seven? I don't think so. You're above a six? Yeah. Okay. So you're above a six. Yep. Very interesting that, that at least that level of humility to think you're between a six and a seven. Yeah. Okay. So Marlon Brando. Oh, I don't know if you know who he is from Godfather. Yeah. Yeah. Is he a Chad? Yeah. Eight out of 10. Eight out of 10. So, so far there's only two guys. Maybe more 8.5 actually. 8.5 Marlon Brando. So, so far he's the highest score you've given. Yeah. Why is that? Well, super dimorphic, really good eye. I'm not sure the phenotype, but it looks like his, his coloring is, is quite ideal. Like he's very high on the melanin and carotenoid axis. So you've got like that super tan and glowy undertone, really masculine orbital bones. You've got that like low set eyebrow. That's one of the most important things is having deep set and compact orbital bones for being a male. What we call hunter eyes. And all these patterns are not just like autists making shit up on the internet. It comes from a lot of evolution, right? So the reason it's important to have deep set orbitals and long eyelashes is because actually when you're running away from wild animals back in the day, the people, the men with long eyelashes, it would keep the brush out of their face. So they were the genes that actually passed on. And that adaptation, you know, succeeded versus the people who had short eyelashes, brush gets in their face and they get eaten by the animal and die. This is news to me. This is news to me. This is, we're learning. Okay. So Marlon Brando, you put eight and a half, you put him seven. Brando, his streetcar named Desire, 10. He was, I mean, he was. You put him as a seven though. No, no, here I put him. Okay. I just want the next day. So he's a 10 for you. In streetcar when he was top of the world and he was, you know, waterfront streetcar named Desire streetcar. He was number one in the world. I mean, he was the guy that went to Marilyn Monroe, met her at a club, at a, at a, at a dinner. At a Hollywood dinner and said to her, I remember that line. Cause he talked about, he said, my place or your place. That was the only thing he said to her. To Marilyn Monroe. To Marilyn Monroe. My place or your place. So which place ended up winning? That's, I think they went to his place. Went to his place. But that's, that's the line. Actually, I actually used that line. Did it work? It did. I'm going to write that one down. My place or his place. Here we go. Ronaldo. Was followed, man, on Instagram. I'm going to say 6.5. 6.5. Actually, no, no, not that high. Pull up a more recent, recent picture. Cause he actually ascended. He ascended. That's just the face, right? Yeah. I was just looking at the face. Probably around six. You put him as a six? Yeah. It's pretty wild for you to put him as a six. But tell me why you think he's a six. I think he's a six because of the mandibular recession. So if you look at the side profiles here, like, look, click on that picture of him from the side. No, from the side profile. Like where it shows. His jaw. There is one. Side profile. Yeah. So basically there's like all these different assessments. So we have the Ricketts E-line to measure. Which one would you like out of these? Yeah. Either or. It doesn't really matter. The first two. That one might be a little bigger though. No. Okay. So yeah, either or. But there's basically a line that we have where the tip of your nose is going down to your chin. It should touch all three of your three points, your lips and all this to assess whether or not you have a recessed mandible. And he does slightly, which is why he has that, you know, loose submental tissue because there's not a lot of oral volume, right? So that's what actually gives you a good submental and hyoid region is for growth and oral volume. Well, his body is a 10, but I think his face, I think it's probably about the same five or six. Cause you know, I think, but he's the way he trains this guy and the way I. It's funny because I've actually never heard anyone be as accurate with the rating system to where they could put someone like this at like, yeah, you're saying like, oh yeah, he's, he's a little bit above average. Like reasonable. Most people are so absurd and so off with their takes to where they think average is seven out of 10. It doesn't make sense even logically. Like if we have out of 10, a decile rating, why is seven? You average us a five. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. What would make you a 10 out of 10 for you? What else? It would never happen. Okay. It's just not. Who's the highest score for you? Is there anybody that you scored the highest? So yeah, there's the, in terms of like facial harmony, which is one of the biggest things that you. What do you give me? What do you give me? Do you want me to rate like now or like. Yeah, no. Go to peak. Yeah. Go to peak. Antonio Sabato Jr. But I want now too. He'll give it to you. Okay. So young type in young. Yeah. SEO hasn't caught up with what peak means yet. I would say I would rate you like 7.75 and your peak. Thank you, man. Oh, show me from you is a lot. That's awesome, man. Yeah. That's my dad right there. So like that would be like high child light or around. Yeah. So that's 7.75. It's like 98th percentile there. I'll take it. 99th. You better leave. Walk. Let's see what it is now. Look. Hold on. Well, I mean, just getting older. That's just something that happens. It's unavoidable, right? Sure. You know, how old are you? 54. And for 54 years old, if within that percentile, you've even ascended further because most people descend at a much more rapid rate and, you know, have a lot worse features by the time they're 54 than yourself. Right. But, you know, if you were to compare yourself with like Hollywood actors, they're not going to be in their 20s and stuff. It might drop a little bit down to where maybe today I would put you at probably like a low seven, something like that. I'm still in the sevens, though. I'll take it. Yeah. I'll take it. Thank you, man. Low sevens in 50s and high sevens. Okay. Can we go into some politicians? Because you made this point about, you know, how much looks helps. So this is probably one of the hottest superstars on the Democratic side, Mamdani. Yeah. Can you pull up some pictures on him so we have some options? Let's rate the guy that wants to arrest the Israeli. We're going to do both of them. Yeah. Uh-oh. Let's see. Yeah. Yeah. Let's. You're funny. Right. Right. What do you want to give him? Let's not do any. Could we do politicians, but like before 2000? Do you want to give anything on him? Or no. With Mamdani? I don't want to do Mamdani or Benjamin Nightingale. You don't want to do those two. Yeah. No. Okay. What would you give Mamdani? Oh, I'll give him a two and a half. Oh, two and a half. Especially. Yeah. Yeah. Just purely on looks. Don't go because of politically, he may be at a different place than you. Oh, looks? Ah, good four. He's charming. He's got the smile. He's very good on stage. He, you know, he's got a massive following. He's ascending. I'll give him a, I'll give him a five. Okay. There you go. You're still not going to give anything on Mamdani? Because it's just like, I'm not going to get myself dragged into some like Twitter battle with someone. Cause I'll give him, if I were to give him a purely objective rating, um, I think you're pretty objective. No, I am. But people don't understand that on, on Twitter, it's just going to be, be a whole political thing. On giving a score to Mamdani. People assume that I'm rating him based off of like some political stuff, some, uh, I actually think you're very objective and I don't think you, you gave a very, but most people on X, but I, but I think that's why I'm prefacing it. So if they cut it properly, cause we'll share ourselves knew some a very high score, right? You gave new some a very high score and, and that doesn't mean necessarily, maybe you agree with his politics. I think you're pretty fair. Fair enough. Yeah. We could, we could give Mamdani a rating. I would say that he's a around of a 4.5 out of 10. Okay. Objective facial rating. All right. And you gave him a what? You gave me a five. Okay. So you gave him a higher than his fair enough. How about Marco Rubio? Marco Rubio. I would say that. Um, he would probably be a 5.25. Okay. What do you think? Ascension though? Easy ascension. He's just a little bit overweight. Um, so he's got to lose some weight and needs the ear spin. Then he could probably ascend to like HTN. HTN. Yeah. High tier. Normie. Where do you put him at? My Cuban brother. Uh, well I would say I'll give him a good six, you know, when, you know, he's, he's working hard. He's going to be going into that 2028, uh, possible presidential election. Where do you put? J.D.? J.D.? Better now. This picture's maybe not a good one. If you're talking J.D. today, because J.D.'s been working out a lot, maybe top left right there looks good. He's been taking care of himself. Yeah, this one got me into a lot of heat last time. Yeah, and by the way, maybe even you don't even know this, maybe even that comment you made got him to want to take exercising more seriously. No, I actually did take 100% credit for that lean back. You do take 100% credit. That's good credit. That is one thing that I am very passionate about, is you don't just see a one-to-one transition in someone's entire life. Suddenly, within six months. Yeah, I mean, that clip was everywhere on the internet. So what do you give him today? Not at that time, but today. Has he made some progress? Today, I would rate him maybe half a point higher than Mondani, around like a five. You give him a five. So Rubio's ahead of J.D.? Oh, yeah. Okay, and then what do you give him? He's a good-looking guy, and also those eyes. So I give him a six. Okay, so his palpital fissure length, like the width of his eyes, is just so short. And you see this in also Chris Hemsworth, too. That's a very important facial ratio is to have super wide eyes, and a lot of sclera show. Sclera is like the whites of your eyes. They're just really like so compact and narrow. All right, let's go to Putin. Here we go. He's in Russia, so as long as you don't go there, you're going to be fine. Putin's actually in a—oh, well. You want to put him up? Put up Putin? What do you score him? Yeah, I'm probably going to go there soon. So I would say that, like, if we're rating current, like, we probably want to do young, yeah. Hyperbound, a YC-backed startup, used Vanta to unlock the security of your business. The Fortune 100 in under a year. Snowfire got audit ready in a month and closed a multi-million dollar deal. Trust matters. I think some may say older would be better than younger, but you can pick and choose. Yeah. He looks ice cold. Skip. Let's skip this one. Really? Yeah, let's skip. He's got to go there. It's a tough one, because this is a tough one. What do you give him? Putin? Listen, the looks really, he went somewhere else, right? He just did a different career. I mean, look, that's a pretty good picture for him. Does he get at least a five from you on that one? Yeah, I'll give him a five. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So at least a five. So that's actually not bad in this. So both of you guys give a five plus. Yes. Okay, Barack Obama. Barack Obama, I would place him. You guys could have picked a different photo. I don't know why they chose this one, but pick Barack Obama. I'd say Obama's slightly above average, like maybe 5.25 as well. Are you there? Yeah, I'm about the same. Probably six. You know, he's a good looking guy. Obama actually, in my opinion, I feel like he ascended and looks like better as an old cell. Mm-hmm. You know? I agree. I do. Like almost like the contrast that you see between like the gray hair and, you know. Like the one on the right? Yeah, yeah. Maybe not him opening his mouth like that. Yeah. More so when he was- He's got a great smile. Like that one right there. Go on the middle one. Top. That one right there. Yeah, I feel like that's a better hair color than- I agree. So what do you give him there? Does he hit a six or not yet? No. He's still a 5.25. Okay. All right. Let's go to B.B. You want to pull up B.B.? Young Benjamin Netanyahu. This is- I've never seen that picture. Wow. Good looking. Yeah, good looking guy. Maybe go on the- I would never know that that was him. Wow. Yeah. Let's see. Yeah, he looks a lot different. Young. I would say probably like around 8th gen, around like 6- He was in the military there, so he was at- 6-something? 18. 6 to 6.25, around there. Okay. Yeah, I give him about the same. He was a good looking guy back then. Okay. All right. AOC. Adi right there, dude. She's hot. She's hot? She's hot? Yeah. Has she slid in your DMs yet or not yet? I know you did. There was a bit of a press thing between us, I guess. But yeah, I would say that she is probably like prime. I'd say like also like 6. Yeah, I'd give her a 6 out of 10. 6? Flat 6? Yeah. That's pretty high for you. Yeah, that's good. What do you give her? In her prime, when she was dancing right there, she looked- 7? Yeah, she looked- And that's why I also like the rating thing is, this happens all the time on the streets. It's like people come up to me, Clav, can you give me a rating? And I'm like, I really don't want to hurt your feelings. Because a lot of the times, they won't be good looking. And I'm like a pretty blunt guy. I'm not even trying to be like an asshole. I'm just trying to be like- They want your opinion. You got to be honest. Right. But you tell someone that they're a 4 out of 10, and you're being completely truthful with them. Right. It's a hard thing to hear. Yeah. Especially from you. Well, especially because- Most people, like I was talking about before, assume 7 is average. So maybe they're used to being rated as a 5 or a 6. But you go even further than that with the actual rating system that they're just not used to, it can be quite brutal. And you don't have time to explain that nuance to every single person. So I really just don't like to do ratings. I'm like, why? How about this guy? And also, why do you want to know? Trump. I'll give Trump- Peak. I don't think that's his peak. There's better looks at Trump. I'll give- Yeah, we got to give Trump a 6.5 for sure. Yeah, in his prime. He says he looks better than Elvis. So by the way, you scored Trump higher than he scored Elvis. He mocks Elvis, yeah. He mocks Elvis. 100%. So he's a 6.5. You give Elvis a 4.75. 100%. Do you agree with that? I give Trump in his prime a good 7. He's my 6.5. So especially in the military. Trump's a slayer. So why is Trump better looking than Elvis? It's just locker room talk. Why is Trump better looking than Elvis? So one of the biggest contributors, I would say, is the coloring that Trump has. That phenotype, it just looks like super high class. And just, you know, once again, the facial width to height ratio. He's got a super wide face. It's like aggressive. And that's why he's able to like dominate the rooms that he's in. And also, another thing is the 12-tooth smile, I believe he has. What is that? Just like how many teeth are visible when he smiles. Super wide. It's a wide palate. 12-tooth smile. Yeah. And that's another thing I was talking about. It's like the compact orbital. So he's got like a really like masculine orbital rim. Can we do the ladies? And then we'll wrap up this segment. And then, Clav, you and I will speak for a few minutes together. Okay. Sofia Vergara. Do you know who she is? No. No idea. I do. Yeah. I give her a good 8. I'll give her a, yeah, 8, Stacey. She's an 8. Yeah. Yeah, she's an 8 now. Okay. So let's go through some of these quickly. Pamela Anderson. 7.75. 7. I dated her when they were prime. Yeah, 10. You dated Pamela Anderson? Mm-hmm. Right there. Right after that. Like around that time. Yeah. Really? Mm-hmm. Tell us about it. She's amazing. She's one of the sweetest people. I was able to have a small, nice relationship. Very private. We kept it very private. But she was very beautiful in every way. Okay. Salma Hayek. Are you familiar with her? She just turned 60. Hmm. I'll give her a 7.5. Really? Her prime, I mean, she was working in the first couple of movies. I give her a 10. Wait, let me ask you a question just so I can understand. Like, this helps me understand where people are coming from. Do you think that you mogged the Pamela Anderson girl? I think that mog word for me doesn't fit very well because I'm just too humble to accept it because it feels negative. But I understand. I also try to understand where you're coming from in your world. I never looked at myself in my entire life, waking up in the morning and go, oh, I'm good looking. That never crossed my mind ever. I try to get better every day. Well, maybe let me ask you. Also, I'm very religious, so I have a higher understanding. Can you define the question? Unpack the question. Do you think that in terms of, like, the percentile looks levels, just looks levels in general, do you think that she was better? No. Was she better looking than you at the time or you were better looking than her? Oh, she was definitely. She was the biggest star in the world. Yeah, she was definitely an amazing person outside and definitely above me. I would say that you guys quite quite similar looks level. So that's like right there. You see? Yeah. So in my opinion, that's like what a relationship should look like of like similar looks levels. But that's not something that you see anymore. You would see like if you're around today in your prime. Right. You would probably like your girlfriend might be like significantly less good looking than you. I'm not saying you, but I'm just saying like, you know, in a in a generational context, someone similar to you today, their girlfriend would like less likely to be as good looking as them or better looking. In the time that we live in now, like two people that are the same. Yeah, you don't really see that. You don't really see that too often. I mean, you see that at the top of the top levels because that's just what's available. Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. I think to and when Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman were at the top, I think they were just the couple. But I think right now, I don't think you have that. You're right. Yeah, so it's quite interesting. Let's do a couple more. Oh. Giselle. Victoria's Secret. This is Tom Brady's ex-wife. Yeah, she has the best butt. 8.5? Yeah. So you scored her higher than everybody else. Why is she an 8.5? Well, her coloring and I think just how striking the face is with those super projected zygos and the facial leanness that she has. That is why I give her that rating. And she has slightly outside of the ideal features too, which is why it's funny. Like her midface is slightly long. But I think just like the overall facial harmony that she has outside of that one ratio is crazy. I kind of want to do an experiment later where I go and I edit her face to be a little bit shorter to see how that makes her look. Let me ask you a question. When you see a girl and you see her beauty walking in, are you also looking at her feet or hands or smile or eyes? Or is it just? Because the face could be a 10, but maybe her body is, you know, so is that, how do you feel about that? Like it could be one or the other. So when I first see a person, it extends, I think it's not even worth, you know, mentioning like just a woman in general. When you see a person, anyone does this, subconsciously you know within about 13 milliseconds if they're good looking or if they're ugly. Right. It's the whole package. Yeah. So you just immediately can tell. Right. But I'm just someone who, throughout my years of research can explain and articulate why that might be the case. Right. This exact feature is what's taking away. What turns you on in a girl? Like is there boobs or butt or, you know, there's physique. The face. The face. Yeah. Yeah. I like, you know, blonde girls that have more of like a model look to them. There's like a weird trend today where. So not brunettes. I usually date blonde girls. Blondes, yeah. Yeah. So it's like there's a weird trend today where people like thick, like, you know, overweight girls. It makes no sense. That's not for you. So how would a Grace Kelly go for you? A little bit too pale for me, but I need to see a more frontal picture. But yeah, so anyway, like I was saying, I have the same view as anyone else. I could just identify it. So like the whole thing about mogging and stuff, all of this like forum speak was really meant to exist within a very like tight knit, small part of the internet. It was never meant to be on, on shows like this. You know, that was never the intention when these words and like this dialogue was occurring from like, you know, 2008, you know, up until now. But it's just like the kind of the way that society moved. And when I first started coming up, it just like resonated with so many people. That's why it's in the mainstream. I don't go on and live my days necessarily like going up to people and saying like, no, of course I moggy. Like, it's really not something that, uh, ever really comes out of my mouth outside of like a content, um, you know, perspective. Okay. Let's wrap these up before we, we finish it up and a club. I want some time with you. Bo Derek. Oh, Brian, 10. Um, you ever heard of her? No, I'd say like six, six on Bo Derek. No. And their time when she was number one, she was number one. Oh, Derek Walker. Yeah. She was a dime. Elizabeth Taylor. Uh, Like, uh, 6.5, 6.5. I feel like, uh, uh, maybe less actually less on Elizabeth Taylor. Eight, eight. She was married eight times, by the way that she was, I met her too. Amazing. It's, it's hard with the pictures to rate someone ideally. And this is like the guidance that they give on the official looks. Maxing forums is you want just the raw candid picture of someone's face just straight up, uh, and a non distorted lens. So that'd be like a 50 millimeter lens. Just literally just sitting there. Yeah. Just resting like a model, like candid photo. Yeah. That they submit to modeling agencies is like that as well. Huh? Cause you could see all about the fate. If someone's angling their face or maybe like clenching their jaw, it can like, you know, mass distorted, uh, Sophia Loren. Um, I'm going to give her, I'll wait till the picture comes up. Can you pull up some pictures on Sophia Loren? Yeah. She gets out of that boat. Yeah. Young Sophia Loren, the beach getting out of a boat. Oh yeah. That's. Second picture is probably the good one right there. I'll give her a seven, seven. No, she's always going to be a 10 for me. Look at that picture on the left. She's gorgeous. She's gorgeous. So let me ask you a question. You don't think that, so if you rate someone a 10, that means there's absolutely not one flaw that you see in me because of what they've done. I mean, I've known them at some of them. I've known them my whole life. Yeah. I give them a 10 for who is a, who's the most beautiful woman in your eyes? Like who do you put as number one? Um, the person that I was with last, that I'm getting my life back together to hopefully get her back because to me it was, yeah. Is she well known? No, no. But she's the, out of everybody you've ever seen in the world, she was the one for you. Yeah. Why is that? Because I, I, I love her more than anything. What happened? Good answer. I was needed to work on myself. Um, which I wasn't, and I just thought that she was going to be there for me forever and it didn't turn out that way. So right now I need to work on myself to get better, to get her back in my life, but only on the fact that I'm going to get my life better. I need to work on myself. It's that stage in my life that I need to do things better for myself to have that type of person. Are you guys in communication? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. But I, I know what I have to do. So until I do that, I wouldn't want the best person in my life to be there if I'm not ready a hundred percent to do what I, what she needs me to do. Wow. Who do you put? Um, I'll put probably, I think like prime Taylor Hill's probably one of the, Victoria's secret model. I don't know who she is. Taylor Hill. Yeah. She popped up. So apparently others know who she is. Oh, I seen her before. She's, um, she's about your age, right? No. Oh, no, she's older, younger, older. Oh, in this page. So the one, the second go to the bottom left. Yeah. Right there. Yeah. So that's like a, the type of photo that you would want ideally to, but she's not a blonde. Yeah. I mean, that's my usual type, but like a lot of the girls dye their hair anyway. So it is what it is. I dyed my hair black. Are you trying, are you trying to pursue her? No, I don't really do like outbound DMs yet. Once I become like a little bit more brand safe, I'm going to start like, um, um, DMing like actresses and stuff, but I feel like I would have to do some weird thing where I like where, cause anywhere I go, someone records and it's like a whole thing. Like no matter what, like there's something. Would you pursue her? Would you go after her in time? Yeah, maybe. Good. Maybe. Nice. Yeah. I just need to like work on the social media reputation. Cause I was like, when I first started out with social media as anyone does, um, I was just like, I was an idiot. You know, I was doing stupid shit all the time. So like just kind of maturing a little girl, you're only 20 years old on this planet, bro. Yeah. Come on. My kid is the next phase of recreating for you. What's the next thing that we're going to see with Clav? Well, I just don't want to detract from all the good that I'm doing with like, um, my immaturity. Right. So I don't want the headlines to be about, you know, Clav gets arrested for, you know, doing this. I want it to be about, um, maybe be doing a, uh, a conference or some sort of seminar where I'm speaking to a, a large amount of people on, um, you know, issues that actually matter, like how to properly be in a caloric deficit without hugely detrimenting your development. Right. Because that's something that, um, you know, a lot of people do is they'll go into these steep, steep 1000 calorie deficits while they're in high school and they'll kind of stunt their development at the expense of, of being lean. And that's something. That's something that I would like to say, well, listen guys, there's actually a lot more optimal way to do this. So I want to be doing, uh, you know, content like that rather than just being an idiot, you know, you want to get back. Right. Yeah. Because, uh, that, that's kind of what I was looking for when I was a kid and it wasn't really as digestible. Uh, luckily for me, I was able to be super, super neurodivergent, uh, and do all this research and not really talk to anyone in high school, but just a super digestible form of content where a guy. Is coming up and articulating and summarizing, uh, multiple years of research on how to properly. But do you have a good team of friends or people around you that you trust and love and they care about you? Or is it people that you just met recently in the last few years that just want to clean, you know, like the entourage? Cause I had that entourage, you know what I mean? But I don't have that entourage now. It's not real. Yeah. I have about, uh, 14 people that work for me like in person now, I think. And yeah, I, I would say. That I, I do trust them. It's at a good stage. Good. What, what feedback would you give them? Last question before we wrap, what feedback would you give them as a guy that's now in your fifties who in your twenties, you see somebody going through this, what, what feedback would you give Clav? If any, I give him a lot of, a lot of credit for what he's created. I also see a kid out there as a father, you know, I can, I can relate to, you know, raising my children who is very insecure. He's a good soul. He means well, he doesn't want to hurt anybody. He's very smart, intellectual. He reads, he knows his stuff, which is good. and he wants to give back. um so i all all attributes that i give him credit for i really i i like this kid yeah that's why like um i did see like the one the one clip at first that was maybe not so positive um because a lot of what you see of me is like out of context stuff uh that makes me look crazy bro i i've been around a long time i can see you're good yeah so it's like i got a good heart i've never really had an experience where i actually like sat down and talked to someone and actually like explained my my mentality my philosophy yeah and it'd be negative so that's why i was like yeah let's let's talk about this and we can definitely hang out i can hang out with this kid 100 bro well i appreciate you guys clap stick around for a minute antonio thank you so much for this thank you thank you my pleasure handmade in portugal where craftsmanship is a way of life for those who move through life differently from sunlit decks to nights that never need an occasion every detail is considered every step effortless crafted from fine suede and built with builder technology designed to move with you because true luxury isn't about being noticed it's about how you feel when you arrive the flb icon loafer made for the life you've earned