Claude Code: Landing Page to Lead Magnet in 50 Minutes

Okay guys, I'm sitting here after watching James Dickerson, the boring marketer, filled out an entire in-buy marketing campaign in Cloud Code, with Lan and Page, with Lead Magnet, with the incredible position in and he took him 30 minutes. My mind is pretty blown. He shared tips I really didn't expect him to give away incredible skills that I myself took note of and I'm going to steal. This episode is gold for marketers who do not want to get left behind who want to figure out how they can start to use Cloud Code to supercharge their own work and better yet. If you want everything James talked about on this show, you can get it right here in the show notes. Just click on the link that's all yours to get all of that and more on this episode of Marketing Against the Green. Here's a quick word from HubSpot. HubSpot helped Tumblr solve a big problem. They needed to move fast to produce trending content but their marketing team was stuck waiting on engineers to code every single email campaign. Now they use HubSpot's customer platform to email real-time trending content to millions of users in just seconds. The impact? Three times more engagement, double the content creation. Want to move faster like Tumblr? Visit HubSpot.com. [Music] Welcome to the show James. You are the mind behind the board marketer, the person that is pushed in by Marketing, showcasing how you can actually do a ton of marketing through Cloud Code skills. And one of our most requested shows that we have put off because we want to do to start doing it is Cloud Code. This is what everyone wants to know. How do I use Cloud Code? How do I use it for my work? How do I use it for marketing? What's all this magic that I fear online by people using Cloud Code to do amazing things? And so welcome to the show because you're going to give us a lesson and how to do that. Yeah, thanks for having me. My goal here is to show people how Cloud Code can become their default place to get work done. And that ranges from marketing, data analytics, working with external APIs and tools. And then being able to deploy things onto a website. So Kippen, I are Cloud Code Converts. We are pretty obsessed with Cloud Codes. We are also pretty excited by the show. But for the person who is kind of starting to get themselves familiar with Cloud Code, their question is probably, can I not just do everything you're about to show me in Cloud and using skills in Cloud. So why don't you give us a little introduction on what is the value of Cloud Code and when what I use that as a marketer to do job like what's the functionality that unlocks a ton of things for me. So Cloud Code is a coding agent that lives on your local machine. So it has access to everything on your computer. It can read, write, search files, perform a bunch of different functions very, very quickly. And it's fine tuned with different capabilities to write code effectively to search code bases and to understand how to interact with like third party tools. So Cloud Desktop has been evolving a little bit. I don't know if you've seen Cloud Code work come about. But that's starting to get some of the same capabilities as Cloud Code in a friendlier way, but it's not quite as advanced yet. Cloud Code is really for the power users, if you will. So if you want to build a website, you want to build an application, you want to do marketing work and deploy it. Cloud Code is the way to go. It can access tools in the command line. So if you want to access your GitHub repos or something like that, you know, GitHub and these other third party tools have tools that are optimized to work in the terminal environment where Cloud Code lives. So Cloud Code can interact with tools in a very efficient way and access the data push, read and write to those as well. One of the other things I think you mentioned this, but a good example would be if you were building a marketing research skill in cloud, it would be doing all of that research through cloud. Whereas if you build on a cloud code, you can give it access to multiple APIs in the environment. So I could say, hey, you can use X, you can use perplexity, you can use chat chat, you can use all of these different APIs to gather research from a bunch of different places for that skill. And so just give you way, way more functionalities capabilities. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then you can build specific skills on how to utilize APIs and other tools to the most effective way. So like fire crawl is one of my favorite tools to have integrated into cloud code. Yeah, perplexity is also great. Those are really the two tools that I recommend people start with is perplexity and fire crawl. If you want to understand what your competitors are doing, crawl their websites, find gaps in the market, you know, those are the two tools that really start to unlock a lot of those workflows for you. We just dropped a free cloud code guide where James is giving you his four workflows and 12 prompts. This guide shows you how to create your own landing pages, build interactive lead magnets, email sequences, and even shows you how to find your competitor's gaps all without writing a single line of code. Get it right now, click the link in the description. Now let's get back to the show. Now James, I think a lot of people were watching this and be like, oh, that's fine. James, you're an expert developer. This is easy for you to say, I've never been in a terminal before. I've never done all of this. Is that true? Did you come from a development background? Like, how the heck did you get started doing all this? Yeah, I mean, I'm a startup guy and a marketing guy. And, you know, I've been working in apps and websites and things like that and running marketing campaigns since around 2011, 2012. I didn't touch a terminal until about a year ago. And I first got started kind of playing with, you know, the typical kind of vibe coding tools like Replid and Lovable and things like that. But it left a lot to be desired for me. I wanted more control. I wanted to do more. And as these agents started to improve, I started testing cloud code. I saw a bunch of stuff happening on X as well. And I was like, I really have to learn this and figure out how to harness it. So at first, it felt super uncomfortable. Like, again, I had never touched a terminal. I had never opened cursor, anything like that before. But, you know, to me, it's just about like finding a small initial project and beginning to get your hands dirty. And once you start to work with it, you start to understand sort of what you've been missing. And it's a real eye opener once you just tinker around. What was the first use case you built in cloud code that kind of unlock? I feel like there's this magic moment for a lot of how we use a eye where you're using your tool like that for me in cloud code. I built this skill that was able to like go through and parse imagery off a thing and then do research and then I did a bunch of research and then create a strict strategy. So playwright is a skill that allows you to actually take screen grabs. And I was like, holy smokes. This feels like living in the future. And I got super addicted to being able to build these kind of incredible skills to do this work. What was the first one that you built when you felt like we were kind of working in a different time? The first thing that I did was build a landing page being able to one shot a beautiful landing page to me was like my first eye opener. You know, I've run marketing agencies and things like that in the past. And I would always have to work with developers or go find, you know, a front end designer or something like that, you know, to be able to do this type of stuff for me. When I realized I could build and deploy like a high quality landing page, I was like, wow, this is amazing. I don't have to rely on someone else. I can just do this now whenever I want to. So that was step one. And that's typically kind of the first test project that I tell people to start with go and build a landing page. Because to build a landing page, there are other steps and research steps you can do, which we'll get into. But you also have to begin to think like a developer and start to set up a developer environment. So maybe you set up GitHub, right? And you have a version control and you code up this landing page and you learn how to push it to GitHub. Now it's there. So next I want to figure out, hey, how do I deploy something that I might go and link GitHub to Versel or Netlify or something like that. And then I hit go in the terminal and I have a live website in a matter of minutes. That was really the first step. And I started to learn how to kind of connect and orchestrate these systems so that I could move from just kind of working on my local machine to putting something out into the wild. And now like all my websites like I've built myself like you know the vi marketer calm and things like that. I've done all of that with cloud code. We've got you know lead magnets. I have a sass on there now. I sell skills. I've got links and landing pages for my community. A programmatic SEO strategy. All of that is done right from the terminal. So why don't we get into that? Why don't we show some of your skills in action and how you kind of use the tool. Let's do it. So to get started, let me go ahead and open up the terminal. And this is kind of the scary part. Don't be scared. Don't be scared though. Don't be scared everybody. It works in natural language just like your normal LLM. So I use a terminal called ghosty. And it's very clean. It's very fast. I've used cursor and things in the past, but I let my agent write all the code and I don't even read the code. You know, so I don't need to see the file systems and the file structures and things like that. That's kind of noise to me. I just want to be. able to chat with Cloud Code. So to get caught up here, I pull Cloud Code, hey, let's come up with just like a new idea for a SaaS and we're building kind of like a LinkedIn command center. It came up with that idea. I said, okay, cool, build the landing page. It built the landing page and what I just showed you is what it came up with. The first skill to make a beautiful landing page to consider is Anthropics Frontend Design Skill. So I'm sure if you've seen vibe coded projects, vibe coded websites, things like that, you can notice the AI patterns, the gradients, the purple colors, the same fonts everywhere. The frontend design skill explicitly tells Cloud Code to avoid those sort of AI slot patterns and create something unique. So that's how we coded up this landing page and it took just a couple minutes for Cloud Code to do it and deploy it on my local machine. And for everybody watching, I want to actually just double down on skills. We've talked about some on the show, but you know, lots of new people watching today, probably where skills are literally a file, a skill.md file, a markdown file. And James, I think of skills as like a list of very expert level instructions to apply in a specific situation in which instead of having to do a bunch of one off directions or research or anything else, it's almost like I have a friend who's a designer. They gave me their best advice. I put it in a document and then AI goes and acts as if they had a lot of the same skills that designer has. Is that like a good way to think about it? You have another definition? That's the right way to think about it. And we'll also show some other ways to think about it as we get into using these skills. But yes, I typically explain it as, hey, this is an instruction manual for how you want an AI to handle a task. And when I build skills, I go and I understand how the best in the world complete a certain task. And I ask Claud code to build a skill around it. And then I go and look at references because Claud code and AI has to know what good actually looks like. And then I implement guard rails, do's and don'ts, you know, things like that. And this is a persistent instruction manual that lives in your project that Claud code knows when to utilize based on your prompt. So skills are a way to level up your workflow almost instantly. There's a lot of skills out there that you can use. You can also create your own through some of these workflows that we'll look at here. And could you just maybe get us through how did you get this skill and then how do you tell that skill to create this page? Like if you can actually show us the prompt. Because yeah, people James are probably already struggling like how does Claud in this like weird terminal thing he's talking about, right? So like give us a little of the foundational here ahead of everybody. We want to go back to the beginning a little bit. I got you. So basically everyone has a terminal on their computer. I just installed one called ghosty. It's just a nice looking terminal. And just open that terminal. And typically when you interact with a terminal outside of Claud code, you need to know all these like commands that a developer might know. So don't worry about that. Just go to Google or go to your favorite AI and say how to install Claud code. And you're going to get a command that you can go and copy and paste right into that terminal window. So I'm just searching for Claud code install command. And I'm going to grab that and we'll plug it in. It's going to go and it's going to install packages. It's going to access Claud code. And then it's going to ask me to authenticate or to log in. So Claud code is successfully installed. That's all we had to do. We went and searched for the install command. We copy and paste that into a terminal. And Claud code is installed. So all you have to do now is type Claud and hit enter. Okay. So I trust that Claud code can access my folders on my computer. I'm going to hit OK. And Claud code is up and active now. That's as easy as it is to install a log code. So I'm logged in already. But if you're not logged in, you will be prompted to authenticate with your Claud or inthropic account. I subscribe to a Claud Max account. It's like $200 a month. Yes, it is a little pricey. But I've never run out of tokens. And I'm on this all day long. You can also go to Anthropic Console and get an API key to authenticate with the easiest way is if you subscribe to Claud, just select Claud account with subscription, you hit enter, it'll open up a window and you just sign in. And that's it. Not hard, not intimidating, not hard, pretty simple. Okay. So now what you're signed in now you can think about these things called skills. And so here in I think had a great question like how do you actually use them? How do you get them in here? How the heck does it look? There are a number of skills out there available like on the web. So the front end design skill is an example and through op it created that you can go and search for skill directories for Claud code and you can find a bunch. There's some free marketing skills out there too if marketing is your focus. A couple that I use I use Claud code a lot for development. I have one called superpowers that I found that's really amazing and that helps me you know, spec out different tasks as a non-coder. Claud code kind of guides me through the workflow that it's doing and things of that nature. The skills that I really focus on are the ones that I created that I have on the buy marketer.com. And I made these skills so that it removes all the guesswork from having to know how to interact with skills. So if you want to install skills typically it's like a GitHub command or in the case of my skills it's a zip folder. You download a zip folder, you drag it into this little chat box and Claud code will unzip it. It will install it into your workspace and then you have things like this available. So I'll just give you a demo. Yeah, please. This is called right in the command line. So I mentioned that skills can go beyond an instruction manual. And what I mean by that is we'll see an orchestrator skill fire up here. So this orchestrator skill will guide us through various skills to use to execute marketing campaigns. I don't even have to know like what questions to ask. I don't have to know what good looks like because that's encoded in the rest of the skills too. Now the biggest blocker for getting the most out of AI that I find is people don't know what questions to ask and they don't know what good looks like. I'm trying to remove that friction when you install these skills into Claud code. So I fired up the orchestrator skill. I just said, hey, let's use the orchestrator skill to get going. When you install these skills they'll also show up as slash commands. So if you type a slash command and you hit orchestrator you hit enter it'll fire it up. You don't have to ask it anything. Now what it's done already is it's understanding what we have in the folder that Claud code is active in. So when you fire up Claud code you tell it, hey, I want to start a new project. Let's call it LinkedIn growth sass or whatever it's called. It'll create a folder on your computer. Okay. The Claud code is kind of logged into or has access to. And then when you say build a landing page it'll build an HTML document or file and we can open that like on our machine and that's kind of what Claud code is working within. So it looked at that HTML file that I showed you earlier that we had opened up forage and it's like, oh, this looks like a LinkedIn growth sass. We have a landing page built. What are we actually trying to produce for this demo and it's saying what's the primary goal for this session? And there's a few options that the orchestrator skill is giving me it saying do we want to build a marketing system work on positioning find a unique angle, write conversion copy for the landing page. Do we want to generate leads content like a lead magnet concept landing page copy and email sequence. We want to work on a content strategy, a launch workflow or just show off the skills live. So I'll let you guys decide like what direction do you want to go down? And just on the orchestra skill. So it's kind of like an onboarding to AI skill like it needs whatever's in the folder can onboard you on two things that you can do for that folder. It's going to call other skills then that can do all these different things or you have to like install them separately. So all the skills that I use are like one package. It installs it into the workspace and then the orchestrator skills the one you fire up first. The orchestrator skill knows what skills are available for all kinds of different use cases. So it routes you to the skill to get the job done based on your goals. Right. I know what Kieran's doing tonight. Yeah. Yeah. More skills. We want to do a generate leads content. Number two. Okay. So I'm just going to literally hit two and push enter. Also not hard. Not hard. Not hard. Typing two and hitting enter. It's a possible thing for everybody to do. Okay. So I think the easiest way for folks to do this is going to be downloading the file and just drag and drop and just so you get how it's a repository where you store code. You can post things there. It gives you live links. You can test it out and then once you've installed GitHub with Cloud Code, you can basically pull those things into your workspace, your local workspace. I realized this morning I was talking to someone like Cloud Code and there's people who are using it are just not familiar what GitHub even is. Yeah. Yeah. So just search like Cloud Code skill GitHub or something like that. You'll find something you could search marketing skills on GitHub, whatever it is you want. And just ask Cloud Code, hey, I found this on GitHub. Give it the link. Say, hey, install this. It'll do it. It notes how to work with GitHub. Cloud Code is the ultimate. You can just do things. If you just like, I don't know, but I want to have a skill. I want to do this thing. How do I do it? You keep asking it. We'll keep pointing you in new and different directions until you get there. Yeah. And a very simple helpful tip too, is framing up the conversation with Cloud Code. Hey, I'm a beginner here. Guide me through, like I know nothing technical. I don't even know what GitHub is. Tell me what to do. Tell me the most effective way to work with you. And every project when you work with Cloud Code has a claw.md file. Yeah, exactly. Add that to the claw.md file. So you know how to talk to me and guide me through these steps as a non-technical person. And Cloud Code will work with you based on that MD file so that there's not as much guesswork. Yeah. So the claw.md file is like, you can basically give it a personality in a way you're working with you. And you can do that at a global level and say, hey, I want you to work with me across all these projects. Or you can do it at a project level. And that has a huge unlock in how you actually personalize all this to the way you work. Yeah, exactly. And another note on the claw.md file is it's kind of like the soul of the project. So any time you get something done, say, hey, make sure the claw.md file is updated. So that when you fire this up again, there's memory of where you left off, what you're working on, what your priorities are. I often say things like, hey, what'd you learn from our session today? How did we work together? What worked? What didn't? How can we improve next time? Save that to the claw.md file. So really what you're doing there, you're almost creating a self-improving system where your employee, which is Cloud Code, is learning how to work with you more effectively every time you fire it up. Yeah, you know what's also amazing about the claw.md file is it makes intelligence shareable. So I was doing this internal use case with Cloud Code and Cloud Code internally is connected to all of our systems, like Snowflake, HubSpot, everything. And so I went into plan the work with it to have these bunch of hypotheses. And then I was going to start to do some analysis and pull stuff from looker and Snowflake and each of the places. There's a person in HubSpot Rich, who's much better way better and more advanced than me at how to do Cloud Code for analysis. So he just like give me his claw.md file. And I just pull them through Git and then I have all of his like intelligence, Taylor and all that will work for me. And so it's like, can I interest him? Because it makes intelligence shareable. It's like pretty amazing. How quickly you can just share that with others. Absolutely. You know, the great thing about skills, like you're mentioning is they're very portable. All it is is the dot md file. Yeah. So I can take that dot md file. I can use it in my open claw if you're using open claw. I can use it in codex, which is open AI is coding agent. I can take that md file and I can throw it into claw desktop. So they're very portable and they're just simple documents. It's nothing, nothing crazy. Before we continue, let me tell you about a podcast I love, Marketing School. Marketing Legends, Neil Patel and Eric Su bring you daily actionable digital marketing lessons learned from years in the trenches. Marketing School delivers bite sized marketing wisdom. You can implement immediately. Whether you have a new website or you're an established business, you'll learn the latest in SEO, content marketing, social media, email marketing, conversion optimization, and general online marketing strategies that work today. They just did a great episode called 10 SEO lessons that still work in the AI era. Listen to Marketing School wherever you get your podcasts. And James, we should call out right now that I think you're given everybody a bunch of skills and everything. If you're watching the show, you can tell everybody about it real quick, but click the link in the show notes below on YouTube. And you're going to give away a bunch of cool stuff. Yeah, I've got a full like playbook that kind of guides you through like what is clawed code for marketing? What are use cases? How do I think about skills? And I've also got a free skill in there. One of my favorites, it's like a copywriting skill that basically encodes like 100 years of direct response, copywriting and elevates it for like today's internet. It's got persuasion and psychological principles built into it. And it's been a big unlock for me personally. Why don't we do that one? Because I am a lover of old, worldly copywriters from the 19th. I love Herschel Gordon Lewis, man. Yeah. He's his mild school copywriter of the favor. I always talk about that guy here about the original M&M strap line. They melt in your math, not in your hands. That was like from 1951. And just a testament to great copy that it's still the strap line in 2026. Like it's 75 years old. But yeah, true copywriters is a time of skill. But that's the way I can replicate it. Yeah. So when I built the direct response copy skill and I'll kind of give you an idea of what's in there. I went and researched all of the principles behind, you know, breakthrough advertising and yeah, I'm sure it's all those folks. I was like, very first thing I did with AI way back when it first came out. I did like the very first version of HGN. I took all the old PDFs from all the old copywriters and built a course with me as a agent given the course. It was all AI generated. Give it to my users as subscribers, just as a test. And it was funny. Like I we know the brand about for and this is like old HGN, right? It's like, he's like, dude, you seem so depressed in this course. And I was like, well, I'm trying to offend that you think I could have been me. So we got some skill stuff here. Yeah, we got some skill stuff here. So, you know, I did ping that orchestrator skill and it gave us a couple sequences. We picked number two. If you remember, focusing on like lead generation and gave us a plan. So first, we're going to go and find a differentiated angle in research competitors. We're going to take that data and then we're going to create a compelling lead magnet or opt in offer around that winning angle. And then we're going to rewrite the landing page copy with a direct response copy skill. And then we're going to build a welcome sequence based on the lead magnet when people give us their email address. So we can just fire that up and it's going to run through all of that for us. I also opened up what exactly is in that direct response copy skill. This is a very high level summary, but you know, it's got capabilities for landing pages, sales pages, emails, ad copy, social posts, etc. Each with format specific constraints. It's got headline formulas that generates multiple variations, all kinds of different techniques that help produce great copies. So let's go ahead and kick off the system and we'll see what it comes up with and we can kind of vibe around on it. Another couple of tips that I think are really good that people should do is, I know one of the things I've started to love doing and I did it for one of yours and Greg's episodes because I was like deep into how other people use cloud code for a while. And I would put one of your YouTube episodes and then I would give the transcript to Claude. And anytime you would say something that I was like, oh, I would love to go do format. I was like, hey, tell me what James said about this and like give me three ways that I could do this sort. And so being a companion to how you watch content, the amazing obviously. And so that's one way I use it. And the other thing I do is, dude, if you want to learn cloud code, you're doing a lot of this and I can't listen to it all, but I can go get your transcripts and create a folder just of everything you've created and then ask it to create like the James course and cloud code. I know that people know that you can just rapidly learn this stuff. For me, I think it's beneficial to see and how someone works as well in their terminal. A couple of tips if you really want to try to accelerate learning. Yeah. Great tip. Yeah, I agree. So I found this interesting here and I think this is worth sharing. So I ran the positioning angle skill and the first thing that it looked for was a brand profile. So we want to make sure we have information about our brand and it said, hey, there's not one created yet. I'm going to go and look at competitors. So it fired up the fire crawl MCP automatically. That's coded within the skill. So hey, when you need to go research competitors and build out a brand profile, go and find who else is in this market. So it's saying, let's go find LinkedIn personal brand, growth, SaaS tool competitors and all this other stuff. So it's going around the web. It's scraping information about these. It's looking at these websites and it's still going. But yeah, it's it's going and finding all the information out there in our market that's relevant to what we're trying to create here. Maybe we'll touch on one thing while it's doing this here that might be useful as well as I think one of the blockers and you mentioned it actually right at the start, which is the good thing about this skill is it gives you ways to start. It's kind of like an app, right? It gives you like an onboarding screen. One of the struggles is AI for the most part is automation, right? It's like automation. You only would have imagined when you were a kid that was possible, but it's someone automation and to do automation, you have to have a systems mindset. You actually have to be able to think through what will I even start with. You're not from an engineering background. You said, so maybe you've always had this. Maybe you developed that one of some tips for people to kind of develop that mindset. I think that's a great question. So when I started vibe coding and stuff, I also got pretty deep into the node based workflows. Right. Yeah. Like in Aiden workflows and things like that. And that began to teach me how to think in sort of these like linear workflow based systems. So that was kind of stage one. But then I realized early on and I kind of ruffled some feathers like on ax. I was like, in Aiden and node based workflows are going to totally die because agents with access to the right skills and tools is the future. And all the Aiden people were like, no, that's never going to happen. But really what you have to think about is less about systems engineering and more about the things that I'm giving a really smart agent access to. Yes. And when I provide it with the right prompt, will that agent be able to do that? to go be the systems thinker for me. Right. What I do is I go through manually and do it, just go back and forth and prompt and reprompt, give it different APIs, give it different tools until I get to the output that I with taste, judge as awesome. And then once I get there, I say, hey, review everything that we did in this session. Turn that into a skill. There's the system. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. So the way that you think in systems is just about learning to work with the agent until you arrive at the output and then let it decide how to encode that and how to turn that into a reproducible result. Yeah. One thing you're getting out there, and I think about it often is we had Logan who was the PM for the AI studio on. It was a great episode. And I was like, what's one tip you can leave our audience for? He says, AI can do way more than you think. Yes. I don't think people really still have clicked with them, which is have a conversation, get it to a bunch of things. And then say, you create the skill. You just do that. And then you can do that. They can want to show skills, right? That's why their skill like reads with like a billion different skills. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So the big unlock is really learning how to work with the agent well. I mean, you don't have to know anything else, honestly, which is kind of crazy and scary at the same time. So back to the outputs here real quick. So it analyzed the entire landscape of LinkedIn growth, SaaS tools and stuff. But went and pulled the competitor messaging. It identified what everyone else is saying. And then what's under exploited territory like white space that nobody owns. So it also did a market assessment. And thinking back to those old school copywriters, it identified that the market awareness or sophistication. So the markets crowded AI powered is dead skepticism is high. So what's the transformation that we want to provide within this unique angle that we have? So from posting randomly and hoping to running a system that produces real business outcomes. I think that's kind of interesting because all these tools kind of generate a lot of AI slop or whatever. And you know, how does that result in actual outcomes I can measure? So the mechanism operator grade analytics and content studio in one suite that focuses on signal over noise. So based on that, it recommended some unique angles that we should focus on in our copy and in our positioning. So it's got a recommended one here. It says statement, LinkedIn growth isn't a content problem. It's a systems problem forges the operating system. Operators are frustrated with random posting. They've tried the tools. They want a system, not more features, framing it as infrastructure versus a content tool, changes who raises their hand, headlines, stopped trading LinkedIn like a slot machine, run it like a system. So it's got a few others, some really good ones. But in the interest of time, we'll just tell it to go with its recommended angle and we can see how it routes us to the next step. Let's do it. You know, Karen, you've used a word around cloud code that I've heard others use and I think James is kind of applying it addicted. It's you kind of get sucked into the progressive and like near endless possibilities of it. And to me, cloud code seems like something that is very paradoxical because there's such a fear and concern about getting started. But once you get started, it seems near like limitless on the other side. And I can't remember anything impacting like business or marketing quite this way in my lifetime at least. Yeah. That's the right word. You just have a new skill that feels like there's an unlimited amount of things you can do. And it's just addictive. Like it's so addictive. I was never like a video game player. But I know video game players and they play a lot of video games. I suspect it feels similar. It's like dopamine hits. It's like just continually getting these dopamine hits like wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, this is amazing. I kind of wrote about this that AI could definitely cause like many burnites much more rapidly. Like your brain skits over low bit loaded because you're just cranking through so much work. I get AI migraines. I just had to get a new monitor. Now I have like in my typical work day, I have six or seven different, you know, terminal windows running at any given time working on different projects. Well, I see people online being like that they feel stressed if they're like if they don't have multiple terminals running, if they don't have these agents doing stuff for them all the time because they feel like they're missing out on opportunity. Yeah. That's a far end of what we're talking about everybody watching this. It's like you might be afraid to get started. The people who are like months in are like the opportunity is so big. I have anxiety if it's not constantly building. Absolutely. Yes. Totally relate with that. I think I'm starting to understand like again, I'm not an engineer by trade, but I'm starting to understand like why coding can be addictive. And you know, like when you work with engineers like in a startup and you're sitting there grinding like all night, you know, the engineers just plugging away. Like on their code. And when they finally get it to work, there's that massive kind of like, yeah, I did it, you know. And that in itself is a very dictating thing. But now these coding agents, they give you that so quickly and they make it more accessible to more people. And you know, I just kind of talk about like sometimes how, you know, we're all kind of getting that like engineering brain in a sense. Obviously like great engineers are miles beyond kind of like what I'm able to do, but engineers are used to like sitting there and debugging something until it works. They're used to banging their head against the wall until they get a breakthrough. And you have to kind of embrace that mindset. If you want to get the most out of these tools at the same time, you know, so real quick, it found our positioning angle. And I want to highlight something that's kind of interesting here. So in my orchestrator skill, as we work, I have it saving these documents to a folder called brand. So it's saving context as we work. So it's got our positioning file in our brand folder right now. And then it's going to continue adding to that so that we have memory and we can pick back up. So when we say, hey, like create content, it can reference that brand folder, understand our positioning, understand our angle, understand who our ICP is, all that. So it's got that sort of memory aspect built in. And is that real? Into the skill or the cloud. MD file? I built that into my orchestrator as outputs are created from individual skills. It saves the outputs into a brand folder so that it can be re referenced every single time. So God, what I need here, the lead magnet concepts that it came up with brand context loaded. So you see that like before it tries to run this lead magnet skill, it goes and references the brand context folder. So it's saying what's our voice profile? What's our positioning? What's our audience? What's our learnings? We've gone through and done those things yet. We could and we could save it to the folder, but in the interest of time, we'll keep running. So it also found competitive lead magnets. So like what are all those competitors doing that we went ahead and we identified when we found our unique angle? What's over done? What's the gap? And the gap is a really interesting concept that I'm constantly looking at. So something that AI is very good at obviously is synthesizing large amounts of information and large amounts of data. And if you just ask it, hey, like based on everything that you found, what's the gap that I can attack? Like that to me is like such a power prompt because you're ingesting all this information and you have context here and ask it to find the gap and ask it how you can exploit it with whatever you're trying to do. All right. So we have a few different lead magnet recommendations. Again, I'm just going to go ahead and go with the one that the orchestrator skill is recommending out of the box, which is the LinkedIn system audit. So is your LinkedIn a system or a slot machine find out in five minutes? It's interactive assessment. It'll reveal which part of your system is broken. So let's just see what happens. I had to see this. And yeah. There was an early version of Vi Markton. I think maybe this is your early version. So I don't mean to be like beacon element. But the first version of Vi Markton was kind of like Markton automation tool, like maybe the node error, right? Maybe it was all like these kind of flows. It's really like automation. But this really is like marking the position of the Vi Markton because you really are just like Vi bin. Oh, yeah. Choose this one. Choose that one. I'll try to put it on the literate and that one is like much more in a flow state. Yes. It's real now. You know, when we first started talking about Vi Marketing, it was still kind of like a concept in a way. I could start to see how like node-based workflows could eventually evolve. And you know, when you see kind of the automations working, you're like, hey, are we always going to be like setting up these nodes and like manually configuring them or is AI going to get smart enough to kind of do it for us? And you know, now with like the latest model releases like Opus 4.6 and things like that, I mean, it's so good at using tools, using skills, chaining things together. You can just sit back and hit a button and deploy marketing assets. So I always had like two laptops. I probably should have three or three lives. I'm like, okay, it's doing something here. I have to fill that moment. I have to fill that time in something else. So I kick off it, do something else. I don't know the other laptops I use in different things. Do you use workflow tools anymore? No. It gets down. Amazing. No, not at all. All I use is Cloud Code and Codex. So you know, for the more advanced folks, like typically what I do when I'm working on a project, I've got Cloud Code in this side of my terminal and I have Codex on this side of my terminal. And Codex runs on chat. GPT 5.3 and it's extremely good at solving bugs that Cloud Code often misses. So think of it as having like a senior developer on one side kind of overseeing the other developers work and being able to understand like what it's working on, what's happening in the code base and pinpoint things that it can provide fixes to. That's how I use it. I call it AI ping pong, but I'm always bouncing back and forth between two pains here to use the power of kind of both agents. I'll enter the great tip. OK, I'm going to see what's tips. So are you, um, cutting paste that the bugs across terminals? You have a connected to your get and you'll just upload in the changes and don't download them on to godex. You know, for a long time, just copy paste and now I'm doing more automation with like GitHub and things like that. But yeah, like just copying and pasting like, hey, what's the bug you're having? Let me throw it into codex. OK, here's the problem I'm facing. Here's the bug. Cool. Here's the root cause. Here's the fix. You know, so that's that's kind of how I work and I've noticed that you're able to move a lot faster. You don't get hung up as much. And you know, you might notice when you go into a long kind of cloud code chat like it starts to kind of lose perspective sometimes. So codex is like this really smart agent that can take like this 10,000 foot view and think about it without all the context overload in the chat. So it's almost like a fresh perspective that can go in and help you solve a problem. Yeah. Maybe summarizes what you've done because you've done a lot of work. We've been like talking about a bunch of the mistakes that can you just like recaps be like really internalized like literally four or five minutes work have we done? Yeah. In 45 minutes, a we created a landing page for this concept that looks beautiful. We researched all our competitors in the market. We found a unique positioning angle. We started to define our brand. We researched lead magnet opportunities that pertain specific to our positioning and our unique angle in the market. And we built a brief for our lead magnet. And we're going to go ahead and create the lead magnet. Awesome. So let's just tell it to go ahead and get started on that. By the way, the heroes type in. We're not being rude. We're typing about all of this is a type in about this. I'm building a skill right now because I'm feeling inspired. The data centers are keeping warm with us right now. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff you're showing. I'm like, I just want to actually go try and build this thing. I'm not thinking about telling ideas. Here's not sleeping this weekend. I'm not. He wasn't anyway. Yeah. I want to see asking down for the work transcript of this because there's some things in here I need to extract it tonight. So right now it's building a fully interactive tool like a micro tool that we can deploy on the site. I went to tool for a lead magnet. Yeah. Like, okay, let's just go ahead and build like an app that we can put on the website as well. I love tools and I think tools are great like by marketing use case. Yeah. The tools are terrific for SEO. They're terrific mechanisms to turn traffic into leads or subscribers or whatever. They can kind of show sort of a micro value moment of like the core product that you have. Also, Ella limbs like tools. So I've noticed that tools are also beneficial for like, you know, ranking on chat GPT or, you know, something like yeah, as well. So tools are great. And, you know, another thing that I often work on with cloud code is SEO optimization. You know, SEO can be technical. You know, there's a lot to it. But guess what? When cloud code has access to your code base, it can go and solve technical SEO challenges or optimize your website for technical SEO in a matter of a couple prompts. It can go and ideate keywords. It can plan out your content strategy. It can develop a programmatic SEO strategy and launch multiple pages in one go to target certain keywords. So it's a great kind of by marketing use case that dig into more if you're interested in that. My brother built a B E O. Cloud code skill. That's pretty dope actually. We have to come back and show us your open class stuff. That's an excellent. I know people. Yeah, I would tell everybody to drop comments below on like future things we want James to come back on and maybe a few weeks or a month or so in chat with us about people are building pretty cool. Identic teams and codex be kind of cool. And I think open claw you built in post-efficient. So we built a like a fully kind of interactive lead magnet here. So you know, start the audit. I love quizzes. Do you have defined content pillars, specific topics? I haven't even thought about this. When you sit down to write a LinkedIn post, how long to take you to decide what to write about a long time? How would you describe your posting cadence, sporadic? Do you have a scheduled time block each week? Eh, not really. Do you know what your posts generated the most reach? No idea. Can you name a insight from your LinkedIn data? I don't even look. Never thought about it. I don't know what the outcomes are. It's all from scratch with no process. Whatever. So now we're kind of auditing the quiz results, identifying the core problems, giving people some tips. And then we have a call to action to go and sign up for the actual product. Very cool. So you really have like built up entire kind of in by marketing campaign. I'm start to scratch in a single podcast. Whilst we were also talking about multiple other topics, I think this is a incredible introduction for people on the value of cloud code. I think it's a great introduction for how you should start to think about integrating this into your own workflows. And I'm glad we waited to cover this. The first very episode on here with you. I think you've given a pretty incredible go from like novice to pretty good and a short amount of time. Yep. And to use one of the tips I gave in real time here, we're going to save this progress in a cloud MD file. So we know where we left off and where we could pick it up next time and kind of complete the loop. Very cool. This is awesome. You know you're all over the net. But where is the best place for people to go and learn these skills from you? So I share a lot on X. I'm at boring marketer on X. So that's the best place to kind of like, you know, learn and interact. I have an online community where, you know, I get on every couple of weeks and we do this exact thing that we just did on this podcast with a group of people. We have mentors doing workshops and things like that. It's called the buy marketers. You can find all the links on my ex profile. They're all there. All you do like a look over your shoulder as you build on that community. Oh, go join up. That's in about it. Yeah, we call it five sessions. I just open up kind of behind the curtain, show people what I'm working on, share learnings. We've got a bunch of smart people that are all using these systems for marketing. And it's just an amazing place to kind of like learn what people are doing, you know, to kind of push the limits of these tools. It's super cool. Jake, thanks so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. It was a blast. Thanks so much. Hey, everyone. You know, Karen and I have been doing the podcast for a while now. We've been at this for a couple of years. We love it. We could not be happier to be doing this. But we wanted to take things to the next level. We want to level up the impact we're having with marketing, it's the grain. So the next step of our journey is something we're really, really excited about. We're going to launch the marketing, it's the grain newsletter. And marketing against the grain newsletter is going to be amazing. If you are a marketing leader, practitioner, you're in the trenches doing marketing every day. This is for you. We're going to deliver right to your email inbox and you're going to get all the behind the scenes, frameworks, practices, tutorials from us, from the guests we have on the show, and from people even beyond the podcast that we think are going to be helpful and really have an impact on your day to day week to week doing marketing. You're going to love it. It is something we've been talking about for a while. We're really excited to have it out in the world. We've already got a hundred thousand marketers who are on this newsletter. Please join. It's completely free. We'd love to have you as part of the marketing against the grain community. And it's easy. You can click the link in the description below or you can head to marketing against the grain.com/subscribe.