CJNG Cartel Tr*fficking is DARKER Than You Think | Kat Szulc

(upbeat music) - So who the hell's car chasing you off the road? - Oh, that was brutal. - That was brutal. I mean, I imagine. But like, give me some context. - So, you know, I think like when we first chatted, you and I, I talked about how I don't wanna do human trafficking stories and stuff like that. And then I broke that baby trafficking story last year. - Yeah. - And then as scary as that was, there was this like realization that those stories are extremely important. And then when I went to Mencho's cabins, I found those pictures of those women that they tried to burn in the barbecue. And so then I had someone reach out to me and can you please stop struggling? That was so distracting. - Relax, just keep going. - Oh my God. - You're on one today. I'm gonna keep struggling now just for you. But go ahead. - That's why people comment that I mean to you. So anyways, I then get a tip being like, hey, this story was published and there's this problem about women from Central Mexico being sex trafficked into border towns and into the States, into Houston, into New York. And so I start setting some stuff up and I go to the Las Galas, Mexico, which is like the most unknown state in Mexico. - Las Galas. - Las Galas. And it's like a, it was like a two hour drive, I think, outside of Mexico City. So I go there and the plan is to talk to women who have been trafficked or were targeted by traffickers and also speak to a trafficker. And a lot of this, it's like kind of outside cartel territory because for the most part, these trafficking organizations, so to speak, are actually family generations. It's family units that are doing this. So like dad, son, uncles, grandfather, like all of them. And then they are the ones recruiting and trafficking the women. - But they are operating on territories that cartels control. There's no way they're doing that. - Well, yeah, of course, but that's like anything with Mexico, but these are, it's not like, oh, this is, this, these guys that I'm meeting with are like CG&G. - Right. - They are just generations of families. - And paying a tax up, suing CG&G protects it, if you will. - Well, because CG&G profits off of human trafficking, like heavily more than really any other cartel. But yeah, these guys aren't, they're not also like trafficking drugs and doing this, they are pro traffickers, human traffickers. And so when I go to Las Gala, I have all these interviews set up and also because the governor of Las Gala, who's a woman, vehemently denies that there is any sex trafficking happening, like at all. - Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge help. Thank you. - And so-- - This is where it is right here. - Yeah. - Okay. - Really small. And so we get there and how do I say this politely? I hired someone who will never be getting hired by me ever again, who said, hey, I can set you up with this sex trafficking family and they do this and blah, blah, blah. We go to this really small town where, so one thing that I had heard of, but I'd never encountered it until now, is that there are small towns in Mexico that if you are putting your nose in the wrong place or they don't want you being there, you're an outsider, you get lynched. And they have lynched. - Yes, and they have signs that are like, if you don't belong here, we will lynch you, like Achilleen Chamos. - They say it. - Yes. - Oh, nice of them. - It's a warning, right? - No excuses, you know? - No, so when we get to this house and I see that sign, I'm kind of like, haha, like not taking it seriously, bad journalist vibes in that moment, okay. Top 10 of my worst moments. - It's all right. - And I see this and I'm like, oh, that's weird, okay. Anyways, kind of talking to people, like usually the way I do stories like this, especially as you just really have to talk to everyone, you set certain things up, certain things fall through, whatever, we don't have to get into that, but. - It didn't give you like, obviously, you talk to some really dangerous people all the time when you're doing your stories. But like in this case, you know, you're going to talk to a literal, as part of the story, a trafficker. - And it was a weird. - A guy who does it, like what does that even feel like? - Bad, yeah. - And like, do you remember? So this is one thing. I always said like, oh, I can, I talk to criminals for work and whatever and I typically don't judge and I know like, they're doing their job. I'm doing my job, which is also why. Contrary to popular belief, that's how it honestly works and why I'm still alive and everything is okay. Because I don't go into like a preconceived notion and I just understand, well, this guy's not doing it someone else will, but there's a very big difference between someone who traffics drugs and kills the competition and is doing illegal things versus someone who is recruiting vulnerable women and like using them, like just seeing them as like a sex object and making them have sex with like up to 30 men every day. - Every day. - Oh. - And are they getting little girls sometimes too? - Yeah. - So there's a big demand for underage girls and for selling virginities, obviously. - Selling virginity. - Wow. - And you're talking with a guy who openly does that. - Oh, it was brutal. And how'd you get in contact with him? - Through someone, through someone, like literally, that's just how it works, right? And it took a while, obviously. But I had to push for it. - So when you first start texting someone like that on whatever app you're doing or not, that matter. What do you even say? Like, hi, yeah, I'm a journalist. I want to cover trafficking and you're a trafficker. - Basically, but I want to know your side of the story. - Your side of the story. - And how the business works. Yeah. - Wow, good for you. - Are you being facetious? - No, I'm not being facetious. Like, I wouldn't be able to, I would not be able to do that. - So this was like a different experience, right? Because then I'm, I actually didn't talk to this person over text, I met with him in person. Someone else set it up through someone else. Like, that's because with these kinds of guys, they're also very paranoid. - Yeah, I don't even imagine. - Yeah, so we met in person for the first time. - Without saying where, or what, is this in a very public place? - No. - No. - And that's why I'm telling you about the lynching shit because I'm telling this story all over the place. Cheers to that. - That's it. - Cats like this could be it. This could be the last one. - So after that meeting, and I couldn't film that meeting, I, my team and I were kind of burned in the town. They knew our car, our license plates, us that we were there, and people were not happy. - Did many of them work in that business in the trafficking business? - Literally like everyone. - The whole town. - It's like that is their economy. - It's like the Truman Show traffic. - People are gonna hate me for saying that, like in governments, but that's literally what it is. - Holy shit. In that town, these boys are growing up. Thinking when I grew up, I'm gonna be a trafficker. Just like my dad or just like my uncle. That's like, you don't have these kids. Yeah. - You know, if they wrote that into a breaking bad episode back in the day, people wouldn't believe it. They'd be like, all right, come on. - It sounds, it sounds far-fetched. Which is why I went because also there was a report on this area and I was like, this seems a little dramatic. And there were things in that reporting I found were not solid and certainly over dramatized. For example, one of the images in this report was of these girls dancing at a carnival and they said like these are like little prostitute girls. They weren't. They were literally just women dancing at a carnival in like traditional clothing type of thing. Anyway, so that was, I didn't appreciate that, but I wanted to go and see what that was going on. So we get burned after going to this house and then are told you guys cannot go back to that town. So we stay in like the main city, whatever. - Approximately how many people live in that town just to get people an idea. - Oh, I have no idea. It's just, it's one of those towns where like everyone knows everything about everyone. - But it's not 50 people. - It's not 50 people, but it's small town vibes, right? - And is it up in the mountain? - Yes. - Because it's up in the mountains. - Yeah, it is. So anyways, we go to the city, whatever. I set up an interview because I obviously needed someone to talk to me on camera, right? That's how my content works. And so I set up now through someone else. Oh, this trafficker will talk to you on camera and just make sure you change his voice, blur his face. Cool, that's totally fine. This guy's been in the business for so long with the family. So we are driving on the highway to meet with this person at a location. And as we're driving, I get a call From this woman who was trafficked. She's from Las Galas and she was trafficked to Tejuana By her husband. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna get into this because it's actually not like oh, they're just grabbing girls off the street By her husband. Yes, because the way that they're recruiting these girls are This older guy will go and scope it out. Okay 17-year-old 16-year-old girls who've never had a boyfriend before come from a conservative family and Go up make them fall in love. It's like the Romeo method, right? Oh my god make them fall in love Will either not have sex with them to like save their virginity or have sex with them to like Grab them, you know, have them more close like you and I like we're together and like I'm your first type of thing so They do that and then once the girl turns 18 typically because In order to like work in Tejuana as like a prostitute or like work in the red light district You have to show your ID Obviously there are ways around that and there are a lot of underage girls But for this one woman You know she gets married this guy is the love of her life. She lost her Virginia with him Oh, but now he's saying that he has to go to Tejuana for business and work Okay, we move together. Cool. They go to TJ literally the moment they get there He takes her ID her phone and is like you're gonna go work at the corner like standing outside and She was like what the hell is going on and he is like no you are it. She refuses. He beats the shit out of her She ends up in the hospital and now she's scared and she goes and works and after she works and she makes some money He treats her like a queen so he really does love me. We just need the money, right? And we're you're talking about women who are from a small town. Yeah, you know listen young Yeah, really innocent and so what does the hospital say though? She walks in with the shit kicked out of her That's not the hospital's place and it's her husband, you know Mm-hmm. I asked that too. I asked her I also asked her like if she ever went to the police or anything and she did and she was like I it got so bad one time when he kicked the shot out of me I went and I said I need to go back to my family and I can't be around this guy and they were like look This is a this is a a marital dispose. Oh my God Did you know that there's an online cannabis company that ships federally legal THC right to your door and that they found a way to Combine THC with carefully selected functional ingredients to create gummies bake goods and flour for whatever type of buzz you'd want Well, the company I'm talking about is mood.com and they're incredible line of cannabis gummies and right now You can get 20% off your first order at mood.com Like my description below using promo code julie forget one size fits all supplements that only get you high Moods functional gummies are optimized to kick in and it's literally is 15 minutes and take you directly to the mood You're looking for they have all different kinds of gummies to choose from including their mind magic gummies Which are great for focused deep work and enhanced creativity, right deep? That's right beyond gummies mood also has a selection of flour pre-rolls bakery treats and beverages now less and you can find gummies to just get you high pretty much anywhere these days The moods functional gummies combine premium federally legal THC with targeted botanicals to help you get into the perfect mood Usually as little as 15 minutes and everything ships discreetly right to your door No dispensary lines no walker conversations just better days and nights delivered to your door step Best of all and not only is every mood product backed by a 100 day satisfaction guarantee But as I mentioned our listeners are gonna get 20% off at mood.com using promo code julie and at checkout So head on over to mood.com link in my description below find the functional gummy that matches exactly the mood you're looking for and let mood help you Discover your perfect mood. Don't forget to use promo code julie and to save 20% when you check out on your first order try it today at mood.com Wow, and you want to be here no one's forcing you to go to the corner. You want to be here That's it. She literally told me that in the interview. This woman was destroyed. Anyways, how would you I'm sorry? How did you get a hold of her in this? So this this is the thing right? I'm I'm asking around talking to people and so We're driving on the highway to meet with a trafficker allegedly She called this woman calls me because someone who knew her what I was like. Hey, I actually think that there's this woman who's willing to chat with you She calls me and I have it on speaker So I have two camera guys filming me in the car with when we're driving on the highway At this point, I'm talking to her on the phone for about like 20 minutes. I fucked up That's way too long to have a camera up on a highway in the middle of nowhere in Mexico Especially to go to the meeting that we're going to I'm hard to get off that kind of call though exactly and she's like telling me this shit And I'm like holy fuck and also I wanted to meet with her in person and I knew that we would have to chat in order for her to know that she can trust me Before we would actually be able to meet at that point And this is all on camera This big-ass black pickup truck pulls up right by us and Obviously someone clocked us Pulls up to us two guys in the front look into our car. They cut me off and First thing I see our fake license plates. It's just says me truck on like just I was like fuck my life like this is where it comes to an end, right? So they cut me off my camera guy starts freaking the fuck out I'm trying to become but I'm also like yeah, this is not good and I try to you turn Stopps me like there's no way. Yeah, and then so you see guns at all. Okay, so This car is in front of me. I'm trying to get around it. Um, I hit the brakes They start backing up. I'm like fuck my life. So I fake signal boom boom finally you turn over the meridian. Yeah in my in this like shitty rental and You turn and get out and at this point I am freaking out and I'm like oh fuck like we're clocked I don't know they just want they I they're they want us out of here And they're just trying to send us a message or they're actually gonna do something with us and typically I have like this This is gonna sound bad, but I always fall back on the fact. Well I am a foreigner and so if they were to do something to me it would heat Things up more than they would want to so it would just not worth it for them to do something to me, right and you felt confident that they knew They knew you were a literal foreigner of like the country. Yeah, but that was a problem in this moment I'm like I feel like they don't know like they this is you blend in Yeah, I can blend in also they don't they don't know me they haven't heard me speak none of that and I didn't know who these people were And I didn't know who clocked us or if someone tried to set us up or if that trafficker interview was actually a fucking setup so You turn go a small car no plates pulls up and they point to gun at us, which I think was fake. It was a fake gun a fake gun. It was a fake gun So they're they're pointing Pistols at you. They're not pointing full blown machine gun. No, it was definitely a fake gun What makes you think it was fake? It just didn't look real Ask him to spray the water out of it or what I also think in the moment because I didn't want a panic and I was with two other people. I was like Okay, I brought us here, you know, these guys are just working God bless your camera man. Holy shit terrible job Yeah, you know how many messages I get from people being like I want to work with you. Can we do yeah like no you don't first of all I'm such an asshole on assignment like just You know wound up and then second of all it's like just a one wrong move That's it good night charlotte. Yeah, so then I'm I You're fucking liability for sure people where GoPro makes you think I'm a liability. I don't know. There's just I feel like you talk too much No, oh, he's good with criminals. Oh, okay, great. No, you underestimate him. He knows how to talk. I just like the bus chops Yeah, I know yeah, I underestimate everyone with this because I don't even know if I fully trust myself sometimes. I Don't trust you either. So I mean, that's fair, but hey anyways, no in all seriousness like how it's been what three four years Are you now doing this down there all that four years? Yeah, at this point like None of these stories surprised me like you put yourself in the middle of it and all seriousness for so goddamn long that like Even with I know all the precautions you take behind the scenes. Yeah, can't speak for your cameraman and everything But you're gonna run in this shit like this. I know and that was not fun and that was that was When I was like oh fuck But when they pointed the gun how long are they pointing the gun at you? So car pulls up right next to us boom I fucking just flooring you floored it. Yeah, you didn't wait. No, I've scored it Fucking dummy the speed bomb because Mexican. I always have speed bumps. It's brutal man. Yeah Yeah, Florida and then camera guy is panicking at this point. It's like speed up speed up. She's still filming now At this Don't get me started. Why do you think he's fucking fired? Oh my god. Come on dude, but friend in the back What kept filming so all of it is on camera my and I and at one point I'm like stop fucking filming because I had to make calls for security reasons right being like hey Just so-and-so know my location do you know like blah blah blah because that's always make sure that I'm not just like Broadawging it because also if I get Kidnapped or like they kill me right there. Who's gonna know where I am though one exactly so and Anyways, yeah, that was like not a great situation. - Can't you go in with armed security? Like at this point isn't that an option that should be on the table all the time? - It doesn't work for the kind of access that I'm trying to get. I just don't think it's right or effective if I'm going in with people that are armed. Like where's the trust then? And then they're gonna think I'm a cop or I'm with cops. And how is that gonna work? - But it's such a dangerous, you're going into dangerous areas. They know it's dangerous. So they know someone who's a journalist from the outside would probably need to look into making sure they're not risking their life every single time they step out. I don't think it's that. I don't think, and maybe I might be looking at this a little too naively 'cause I'm not down there and I don't live in these places. But I don't think it would automatically be the leap all the way to, oh, she must be CIA 'cause there's a security guard with her. - Not even just that, but they trust me as in, I'm a journalist telling the story, okay? About what you guys do for your job. - Right. - They don't know who these other people are. They know it's me, they know it's cameraman. Camera guy, my camera is there, he's holding the camera, he's getting the shot. I'm there, I'm asking the questions. We throw some armed tough dude in that combination. It's just, it's too much. - It's too much. - I don't know, it might get to that point. I don't want to, I know a lot of journalists in Mexico who are always in armored vehicles and always have an armed bodyguard, but they're also not doing the type of stories I am or like going. - Right. - So yeah, I just don't, I don't think that's gonna work. - Well, when you floored and got out of there, they obviously didn't chase you. - No, they didn't, so that's when they wanted to send a message. They were done with us being there. They didn't, I was sticking my nose in too many places, knocking on too many doors and people noticed it. So yeah, that was. - How long ago was this again? - Three weeks ago. - Now, what's the status of that story? 'Cause you were doing the 20 minute interview with the woman at the time. - Oh yeah, this is what got you clocked. But like, what else you talk with the trafficker in person? - I literally just finished this story. It's not out yet. And it, 'cause I went to Juana because that's where a lot of these women end up. And so I had to interview people over there. - After this happened. - And so I went there, interviewed women who work in sex work, some traffic, some not interviewed a trafficker there. Yeah, it's just. - So you interviewed a second trafficker? - Well, I never made it with the first one in Las Gala. - Oh, on camera, on camera. - On camera, right? But you did meet with them in person. How long, let's go back to the first one just for a second. How long were you sitting with them? Wherever you were doing it? Maybe like two hours? - What kinds of things were you asking them? - How much money do they make? How they get the women? What's like their cut? What do they do if? - It's a lot less than you would think. - You know what? I'm not surprised, it's not a lot. - It's not a lot. And like, here's the problem, right? Like a lot of these girls that are coming from Central Mexico, they're not going and charging like a thousand dollars for like 30 minutes type of thing or 60 minutes. They're going, they're charging like 300 pesos for 15 minutes, which is why 200 pesos is what? Like 18 dollars, 17, 15 dollars. Yeah, it's literally nothing. And they're doing full service. And that's why they're giving service to like 30 guys a night. When she told me 30 men in a night, like I actually can't, I can't comprehend that. - Good. (laughs) - I mean, you shouldn't be able to. That's insane. - It's brutal. - Yeah. - And the story is like, essentially every woman I spoke to was like, oh yeah, I've been held at knife point or gun point or basically got raped. Like so many of these moments, it's just rape. Of course. - So that was yeah, really shitty. And then to sit with one of the traffickers that I did who was laughing about putting like a golf tee into girls. Yeah. And like shit like that. And like how funny it is. - How do you sit there, especially like as a woman and not and keep your journalist hat on when he's saying shit. - You, you pretend literally, like what am I gonna do? Be like, you're fucked up, that's crazy. That changes nothing. And then I get no information. So that people can see the reality of the situation. - Absolutely, it's hard to do that though in the moment. - Oh, it's horrible, but you lock in. And it's just like, okay, this is how these guys talk. You match it. And we're drinking and all that's fucking crazy. Oh, you did that. Oh, like, I don't laugh. - You're just going along. - But you go along. You just go along. - What are the kinds of things that you tell you? So he had grown up in it. I take it. - Generational. Everyone in the family, yeah. - Was he married? - Had he trafficked this wife? What was his logic there? - So basically they're not trafficking their wives and daughters. So that guy that I told you about that trafficked his wife. - Yeah. - He was using this Romeo method, right? Make these girls fall in love. And so like, she believed that to be her husband, but like it wasn't. - But like for this guy. - Because like their wives and like their real wife is not going to be sex trafficked by them. - Right, so this, I would imagine, 'cause you're sitting with him for a couple hours, he's giving you that information. You're asking him something like, okay, why is it okay to traffick other women as opposed to your own wife and daughters? You don't traffick them. - No, because that's family. - And that's it, but that's what I'm saying. That's the only logic he gives 'cause they're family. - Yeah. No, that's my family. This is business. So. - And there's a, it is weird, but there is this very clear difference in respect. So for example, they see that the girls are trafficking or like potential victims as like trash, whatever. Like this is just, it's like a product. But, and I could feel it. When I'm chatting with him, there's a lot of respect. - For you? - Oh, so, oh yeah. This is, so what makes you not trash too? - I don't know, my job, I don't know. - That's so, like I can't, that's so crazy. - I think it's like a, it's a vulnerability thing. It's like, you know how like pedophiles were like, find like a vulnerable kid, the kid who's kind of quiet, the kid who probably won't say anything or can fall into the trap type of thing. That's how they determine who's their product and who's just a woman that's, that they respect. - So they view the vulnerable as less than like a, and I'm putting words in their mouth right now. - In a way. - But like as a genetic mistake, a choice therefore, this is evolution and they lose in the game of Darwinism. That's how they're looking at it. - Yeah, sort of, I mean, from what I was told, that's actually kind of what it seems like. And it makes them money. And I even asked, I'm like, when you beat them up, like you don't feel bad. He's like, no, if they don't want to get beat up, they're going to do their job properly. - Ha, ha, ha, ha. - Does he beat his own wife and kids? - I have no idea, but I, I would imagine that's, yes. - I'll bet he does that one. - 100%, I could see that. - You can usually tell a wife, Peter. - Was his, so you said it was generational, so his family was in it. Did he talk anything about, I don't know, his mom being involved in anyway, with trafficking, you know, helping with the operations, or was it the kind of thing where he's talking about like his dad, someone abroad. - Mom knows about it. Mom doesn't do anything though in it. She's not involved. But all of the female family members know about it. - Did he have siblings who also got into the business? - It's all, it's everyone in the family. - What else did he tell you that really stood out? 'Cause that's a lot, I didn't know you were talking to him for that long. That's a long time. - Yeah, we were there for a few hours. What else did he tell me that really stood out to me? It was just, yeah, the, really what stood out to me, and I know that like for the report, this is outside of what the guts of the report is, but it was just the way that like they treat them. Like when he was making, just it was so funny to him to do these borderline torturous things and how they'll like get all girls together sometimes and like throw these parties and like, you know, everyone's partying and the shit that they're doing. He was like proud of it when he said, yeah. Like a nasty shit. - Do you think he has the capability to feel anything for another human being, don't care who it is? - I don't know, I don't know. - 'Cause like, I'm sure you probably, well, maybe you haven't, but one thing you should probably think about at this point, having done this for so long and been around such a chaotic environment with some of the worst people in the world. is like, yeah, you may not be a classically trained in school psychiatrist or psychologist or anything like that, but you're probably one of the best in the world at being able to pick up on sociopathic traits and what goes into how different sociopaths are formed and stuff like that. - Because I've spoken to all these people, yeah. - Running a business means you're always reachable until you're not. And the moment you miss that call, that text, that follow up, a competitor is the one who picks it up. That's why today's episode is brought to you by, quote, spelled Q-U-O. Business phone system built so you never miss an opportunity. Quo's awesome because all your calls, texts, and voicemails live in one place. So anyone on your team can pick up a conversation, see the full history and respond fast. Quo is the number one business-rated phone system on G2. Trusted by over 90,000 businesses who rely on it to stay reachable and look professional every damn day. And it's so easy too. You can set it up in minutes on any device, keep your existing number, and add teammates as you grow. No IT, no hassle. We hate the IT departments for this stuff. Quo's built in AI agent handles after hour calls, answers questions, and even book appointments. So you never miss a lead even when your team is offline. And finally, Quo is also gonna easily integrate with any tools your team already uses, like HubSpot, Claude, and more. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free, plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to Quo.com/july. And that link is in my description below. That's Quo.com/july and check it out today, link in description below. Get it, got it? Good. So obviously there's a sociopathy level that's built into someone like this, but were there ever moments you were with him where you were able to, I don't wanna say forget, but like, you know, momentarily he's not a trafficker. It's, he's a human. And like, you felt humanity with it. Yes, and especially when he, so we were drinking and talk, and he got hammered. And that was when I was like, ew, like what the fuck is this? - It's careless too. - And like sloppy drunk. Yeah, and I wasn't expecting that. When we first met, I was even a little bit intimidated. And then when I saw him drunk, and I drank more by the way. Just put in that out there. - Yeah, that's all right. - I was like, oh. It's not like, and I don't, I'm not trying to glamorize it, but it's not like I'm talking to the, like you would think, oh, they're doing these evil things and making this individual's making quite a bit of money from it. That there would be like this level of decorum in spite of like all of the shit that they're doing. - Right, he'd be on guard more. - Yeah, and initially he was. And then afterwards, no problem. - How was he getting drunk off of tequila? - It was like a lot of different things actually at that point. - So he's being real sloppy. - Yeah, I don't remember what, he drank, started drinking vodka because I drink vodka. I know, and I've never experienced that. Usually it's the other way around when I meet, if I meet with criminals and like. - That's interesting. - If there's like alcohol, which sometimes there isn't, it's not 'cause I'm their friend. It's literally an icebreaker, right? Like you're just, and in Mexico too, drinking just whatever. But yeah, he matched my poison. - That's interesting that he would mirror you. - I wasn't expecting that idea. I know. Yeah. How'd you guys leave it? And you're like, all right, I got no more questions for you, have a good one. - No, he got drunk and I was like, okay, I'm going now. I have to ingest footage and shit. Bye. Yeah, and then he said he could set up some other stuff for me. And. - Shake his hand. - Yeah. - I don't know, I always think about Brian McMonical. He's a friend of mine who's one of the best defense attorneys to ever live. He's represented everyone from Bill Cosby to Meek Mill to all across the gamut of types of cases. People that are guilty, people that are innocent, et cetera. But he always talks about that with, you know, even, 'cause I'll ask him, I'll be like, how do you sit with a dude that you know is guilty? And you have a constitutional job to represent him and do your thing, understand that, and you're handling that. But how do you sit with them and have any type of personal relationship which naturally has to happen while you're building a long case? And he's like, you know, it's the little things. Like what do you mean? He goes, you know, they'll show you little things that make them human. Oh, they offer their cup, you know, to you first before the water gets poured or, you know, they'll make a joke that you can relate to or they'll talk about their family and there's actually real love there. And you can talk about yours, like all these little things. And so he's like, yeah, it doesn't change the fact that some of these guys inevitably are bad people that, you know, end up getting locked up and when they're very guilty and, you know, are in many cases sociopaths. But like, even that sliver of collective humanity can at least help me referring to him do his job. And so I would imagine if you're, even if you guys are ice breaking it and getting drunk together, which I guess, I mean, that's interesting. But I would imagine being able to sit with someone for two, three hours like that. Even if you're not, you know, in the moment, you're doing your job. But even if you're not consciously clocking it, there has to be a lot of those moments where it's like you're at least just two fucking people talking on a bar stool. Oh, for sure, yeah. And there will be moments where, especially when you're talking for a while, it's just a conversation. And yeah, they, he may mention of his family and stuff like, telling me about his marriage. The, I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm painfully single like it's, and I will say things too, whatever. But then it can be very jarring when that's the vibe of the conversation because then when it will then shift to like the topic at hand, it's jarring. It's jarring. Yeah. It's different than just talking. And it's tough because it's like right after speaking with someone who suffered so much because of someone like this. Did you bring her up? I did, yeah. What did he say? Well, I said, you know, there was this woman that, I don't, I don't know if you had anything to do with it, you know, 'cause it's a expansive network. So I was like, she said she couldn't sleep and she was giving service to like 30 guys a night. And two things, he was like, well, first, you probably wasn't making much money because the girls who are giving service like that, they're not charging a lot. And second, he was like, he didn't feel sorry for her, but he knew it was shitty. He was like, oh, that sucks, yeah, that's tough. Yeah. Like they know that it's not good. It's not a nice life. So what makes them deserve that other than I get paid money and I pick them out because they're vulnerable and therefore whatever, what makes, like how can he be like that shitty and feel something towards it? It reminds me of like if I were talking to someone in like 1830 about like their slaves or something like that. Yeah. And they're like, oh, that's shitty. But that's just the way it is. Yeah. That's literally what it's, yeah. Well, you know, we all gonna make our money somehow. That's how they see it. But it was really difficult to chat about this. If I had spoken with him before I talked to like multiple girls, I probably would have been very different actually. How so? I don't think I would have taken as seriously some of the comments he made about like some brutal shit that happens and how he was like so joking about it. I think if I had heard that prior to interviewing the girls, I would have been like, oh, yeah, whatever. But did you ever get pissed at him openly? Not openly, no, no. I mean, this is a dead serious question. But for something like this, like do you, as part of like preparing yourself, do you work like an actor a little bit, like get yourself in the role, if you will? Like, no, no, you just, that comes naturally. Yeah, I just, it's just a matter of, I know what I need to get out of this and I know that attacking someone or judging their decisions or the way their brain operates is not gonna help them open up. And you don't know how you're gonna react though. That's more normal. I do though. You do? Yeah, because I, I was raised like that. Like I, people tell me unhinged shit all the time. Horrible things. And it just goes inside. And I just, what am I gonna say or do? I'm not gonna freak out. I have a lot of control over my emotions. That's good. Helps in that kind of job. Yeah, I think it helps in every job. It does, but especially in this. I don't think people should act on emotion for the most part. And so, yeah, no, I, there were like a few things, a few moments when he said something and I'm like, inside, ooh, fuck. But I just don't say anything then. was one of those, you already described a couple of them. - Yeah, like it was like shit like that. Just like, things that they'll do to the girls and you're just like, oh fuck, you're such a piece of shit. No, but-- - But you can't say that. - Can't say that. - Yeah, you know? - How do you, 'cause you're gonna be free will in it when you go to talk to a guy like this, you're meeting them and, you know, wherever it is and you're not on camera, you're not sitting there with papers like it's 60 minutes or anything, but how do you, if you're already good, mentally prepared for it to be able to handle it and do your job? That's great, but like, do you kind of prepare how you want it to go or do you do it live every time? - Live. - Yeah. - Yeah, no, I actually think the best journalism comes from just having like a natural conversation because I think when you go and prepared, no matter what, you have to go with no expectations. And if you're preparing for it or being like, I definitely am going to ask this, you're already betting that that's where the conversation is going to go or like, yeah, you can't. I really go into everything in life with no expectations. - No, I love that, but that's the thing. Like, that's how I do it here. I think there's a lot less serious stakes. It's in a fucking podcast studio. But like, the magic would be gone if there was like a level of, I wanna make sure we get to this and this and do it this way and talk about this thing. - I understand, sometimes like that needs to happen. Like, when I interview a politician, for example, there are certain things I'm like, okay, I need to know this or I need an answer or a reaction. But for someone, yeah, no, but for the most part, it's just, you have to just have a natural conversation. - I think it would be a lot harder if you had very limited time. They're like, oh, you have 10 minutes or 15 minutes or something like that. That's a different kind of scenario. - I hate that. - That's awful. - Oh my God. And every time I have that situation, the interview is trashed, every time. But if you know you're gonna have a couple hours with someone to talk with them, chances are, I'm thinking of like the politician situation, for example. Like, let's say there's one or two key issues right now that you know you gotta get to. It'll get there. It just might get there 10 minutes in or it might get there an hour in 10 minutes in. You're not gonna control that part. Let the rest of it fall into place. I think that's great. - Well, actually with this individual, like the main trafficker that I spoke to, he initially set it up for, okay, yeah, let's just like meet quick, chat and goodbye. But once we met and started chatting, he got very comfortable and wanted to continue talking and that was why it ended up going a few hours. - Do you ever wonder, 'cause like you're a young female reporter? - Helps 100% - Yeah. - Entirely, entirely. - It is an advantage. - Oh, totally. - Are you ever worried about that? I mean, you're dealing with a fucking monster here, so. - Of course, but I have like, I don't know, maybe I don't know if it's me being naive or just I have a big ego, but I'm like, I don't know, maybe it's a mixture of both. I think that shows my age. But I always feel like with people like that, if it got to a point, we're likely we're gonna do something with someone like that. I could rationalize my way out of it. - Rationalize? - Yeah. - How would you do that? - No, don't write me. (laughing) - I'm joking. - He took that so seriously. - You really think that would be my strategy? - Yeah, I didn't think you'd actually say it like that, but kind of come on. - No, no, no, no. - It would just be like, I can't do it with you, like I have to be in the moment, but I just have a feeling like in the moment, because it's come to certain moments where I feel like I'm in danger or there's something where the vibe switches, and I can kind of rationalize with them. - I do think that, like-- - You like want something to happen? - No, I don't. - Case of stone. - No, don't say that. I don't. I joke about you with things because you put yourself in very dangerous scenarios all the time, and that's part of like completely-- - Not with the intention of something bad happening to me. - I understand that, but like when you do, it's just the law of probabilities. When you do it, a lot of times over and over again, like the probabilities of something not great happening, whatever that is, are higher than for the average person. You understand that? - Yeah. - Okay. But what I'm saying is though, I do think the fact that you have like elephant balls in these situations placed to your advantage. It's just like, the thing I worry about is the one time you're with someone who genuinely doesn't even respect that. 'Cause I think a lot of the guys respect that. - They do. - God damn, you know? But like when-- - And they've told me that, which is typically when I know, okay, we're in the green. And a lot of them have actually even told me, they're like, I don't know what kind of guy would want to go with you, like fuck. But when I hear that, that's great. That's a really, it means that they're not gonna try some bullshit. And I'm not worried about someone who doesn't respect that. I'm worried about someone who's like, so high out of their fucking mind that there is no rationale. - Right. - That's my concern. Or someone who's like fresh, like just started in this shit, and they're freaking the fuck out, and they're doing drugs, and they're trigger happy and just crazy. That's what I would worry about. I feel like that's more likely than me meeting with a high level person and them turning on me. It's more likely gonna be some bottom of the barrel kid who's just pissed off about something super high and decides to just do simple shit. - There's two psychological components to it. One is all it takes is one, and you're talking to people all the time. That's why it's so dangerous, but also it's like, that's the job too. And that's why you do it well. Like if you're gonna go do this, you're gonna be in situations like that, and it kinda, you know, it is what it is. And it's worked out, obviously at this point, and that's good. It's just like, I do hope there's gonna be a workaround at some point here where the, I'm not saying you go in there in an armored vehicle everywhere and shit like that, and make it like a whole thing, which might really limit your job. But if there's a way to have like a little more security around you, just something. - That's what I'm actually trying to figure out, especially after the highway situation. - Yeah. - This is like a conversation that I've been having because, yeah. - I mean, you know a lot of, you know a lot of good people who are familiar with that environment down there. I gotta think one of them's gonna be able to come up with something that's like, okay, this could work. And we're still able to do it. Like you don't wanna be- - I don't wanna hinder, yeah. That's like one thing because some people were like, well, like what you said, well, like have like an armored vehicle or don't go to these places or don't meet with these people. And I'm like, but that's what sets these stories apart from everything else that we're seeing. Like this is in a way, a lot of it is really unprecedented access. And I think that's important. Like it's being able to see everything and there's like exposure to these regions and people that are typically very, you know, operating in like the dark corridors type of thing. That's what makes it good and interesting. - I agree. - So I don't wanna lose that. But I feel like it's just gonna take like one more, okay, actually I say this, I was gonna say, it's just gonna take one more close call and I'm gonna be done. But then I've been saying that. It's like, the first time I go to L the gunpoint, I'm like, okay, it's done now. Where I called my dad, I'm like, it's done. - And three days later, fully connoisseur. Let's go. Yeah. - Yeah. - It's like a momentarily thing. And then you start to rationalize the fear and you're like, I wasn't that bad. They were never gonna actually do something to me. - That's right. - That's my problem. - Yeah. - 'Cause something will happen that is like inherently bad and then like after the fact-- - It was in my head. - Yeah, oh, I was making a big deal out of it. Like, no, it was not that deep. They were just trying to scare me and it worked and whatever and then I go back. - Well, the fact of the matter is when it comes to people that like are English speakers or speak it well as a second language, you could literally, as far as people that are actually down there really getting stories and really consistently reporting on things, I could almost count on my two hands, how many of them exist. And I've had a half of them in this studio. There's not many, you know, like it's not, now there's people in Mexico, native Spanish speakers and stuff, and I'm gonna want to speak any English who have been down there doing it and there's way-- - And they're really good at it, but there's also so at risk. - Right. - Because they're not protected by anyone and they're totally a threat, you know? - Yeah. - And it's been proven how disposable they are. They just murdered, kidnapped, a female journalist in Barracruz from her house and murdered her. - When did this happen? - Just recently. And her kidnapping was live stream. There's a video of it. - Who'd, which quartel did it? - So here's the thing. I think it was cops. Yeah, this was some-- - Worse it was for who? - The government. - On the take for who? - It's like a government thing. - Oh, you think it's just purely the government. - I think there's some, yeah, Roxana. - What the fuck? - Okay, Mexico, Roxana, Guzmán. Third journalist murdered in Barracruz in 2026. RSF demands urgent answers. Reporters without borders strongly condemns the murder of journalist Roxana Baraniz Guzmán Ramirez. Director of the news outlet, Pulso Informacio del Cereste, who was abducted on 2 June in Nanchital in the state of Barracruz and found dead nearly a month later. This crime confirms the authorities failure to protect the press and marks the third journalist killed in the state, in just that state. Since the beginning of 2026, RSF calls on the office of the Attorney General of the Republic to conduct a prompt thorough transparent data. On the morning of June 2nd, armed mass men forced their way into Roxanna Barroni, Scuseman Ramirez's home in Nanchital and Southern Veracruz. After threatening her, they abducted her, the office of the Attorney General of the Republic took over the investigation and today, eight people have been arrested, including four municipal police officers from, how do you say that word? - Where are you? - X-Watland, Del Cireste. - Okay, a town in Southern Veracruz, another suspect in the abduction, Jose Del Carmen Codena, Esquayola, known as Delta Seven, was identified through CCTV footage of the attack, according to Mexican media reports. Following his arrest, he allegedly directed investigators to a location where the journalist might be found where authority to discovered human remains. On July 3rd, the Veracruz State Attorney General's Office confirmed that the remains found on a ranch between the municipalities of Expoalton, Del Cireste, and Molo Acon were those of journalist Roxana Guzman. The journalist headed polsoin from Tivo, Del Cireste, a Facebook news page covering local community affairs, citizens concerned, public services, municipal politics, and security issues. So they think that this was, this was-- - Four of the people-- - Right, but my question is, are they on the take from CJNG from-- - So Veracruz is CJNG, but I have a feeling that there was an issue with her political reporting. - Okay, let me back door it again then, is the issue with her political reporting, the fact that she's reporting bad political things about politicians who are owned by say CJNG. - Yeah, it always comes back to that, for sure. But you're a journalist in Mexico, you're getting abducted and murdered by cops. - That's like the most textbook Mexican democracy security, like all of it together, and it all came to a head with her. - That's insane. - It's brutal. - I mean, it's incredibly brave for all of you, but especially the people who are from there and have been reporting on this for years. - It's a nightmare. - So I went to, I was just in Kuliekan a week ago, and 'cause I want to see what it's like since-- - Had you been back since Kuliekanazo? - No, I haven't been back since after Mayo. Like I was, the last time I was there was after they got in Mayo. - Okay. - And so I went back because-- - Kuliekan on the map, thief for people out there, but go headkat. - Because I, I think Kuliekan has some of the best journalists, like they're just, and so underrated, and they're just so fucking talented and honest, and you'd say I have elephant balls, these guys, it's like twofold, okay? And it was brutal. Within the first like six, 12 hours that I was there, I went to eight different crime scenes, different murders, murders, yeah. It was terrible. And so one of the girls, she's a journalist, she's the only girl that does the breaking crime news type of thing, so murder, shootouts, whatever. And she's young. And she was telling me that one time she got to a scene before the police did, and-- - How source? - Well, so she's getting like reports from people, like on Facebook, oh, shots fired, right? Because like people in Kuliekan also like are so on edge that like any bang, people are already on Facebook like they're shot fired, and it's like, no, like a guy just like dropped something, changing a tire type of thing. So she was telling me how not too long ago, she attended a scene before the cops got there. So she's like waiting in her car, 'cause she's like, I don't know if I should get out, yet I should wait for the cops, just 'cause-- - Ted body there. - This guy in a car of truck, comes out behind her, there's multiple guys in the truck. He has a machine gun, taps her window with it, and was like, give me your fucking phone, and she's like freaking out, obviously. And he's like, what the hell are you doing here? Like your journal is what the hell are you doing here? But well, she's like, sorry, like I'm just a reporter, I just come and take pictures of stuff like this, you know? And young, and this is not a nice situation to be in, you have this guy. And so he grabs her phone, and she was telling me, it was one of those pink flip phones that you can get now, and she was like, I love that phone. And he smashes the phone, and then someone in the truck yells at him, no, take the phone. And he's like, no, like fuck it, but she's not gonna have the phone, and then she's like, can I go? And he's like, no, wait, we need to figure out what to do with you. And someone in the truck is yelling, take her, and he goes, we don't have to take her, just as long as we got rid of the phone. Yeah, imagine this poor girl is sitting there, oh my god, just brutal. Anyways, they let her go. But apparently, they kept using her phone from that moment on, like they ended up taking her phone. They were using her WhatsApp and stuff like that. Jesus Christ. So you, for people that don't remember, when you were first here, back in episode 265, we talked a lot about Kulia Kanaso, what was going on there, and that was a couple of years ago now. Can you just review that for people that just-- That wasn't the Kulia Kanaso. That wasn't-- That was El Mayo's capture. Kulia Kanaso was before that. It was a year before that, but you were there for that. No, you weren't there. I didn't go to Kulia Kanaso. You were just there for the aftermath? Yeah, no, I was there for-- I was there for two years ago when El Mayo was abducted and arrested in the United States, and helped-- All hell broke out in Sinaloa, because it fractured the Sinaloa cartel, because the Chafitos, El Chapos, kids set up El Mayo, the leader of one of the leaders of the Sinaloa cartel, to then hand him over to the United States authorities. So I went there for that, and the city was on fire. There were dead bodies everywhere, shootouts all night long. There was a stay-home order, like kids were doing a school from home, people couldn't go to work. It was a whole thing. And he was also set up-- well, at that time, too, there was a big problem, because I probably said this on that episode. The governor of Sinaloa is very corrupt. Revenro Chamoya. And I interviewed him when I went during that time, because also, at that point in time, a lot of journalists were dying. There was a lot of rhetoric that he's super corrupt, and he also works with the Chapitos, and he played a major role in giving up El Mayo to the United States, and all of this shit. And now he was just indicted by the US. Oh, he was. On drug traffic, yeah. Can we move that out? Working with the Sinaloa cartel. In the southern district in New York? Yeah. Whoa. So they're trying to extradite him, but the president of Mexico is sort of in a way kind of protecting him. Yeah, there's a lot going on there, too, because the Mexican government is investigating the United States on their involvement in El Mayo. Now, of course, the United States government was involved. But what's the deal there? Why are they-- So the FBI, or like the ambassador in Mexico, told-- You're good. It's just someone's dying outside your front. Told the Mexican government that they did not have FBI, and there was no FBI involvement in capturing El Mayo. That he just simply ended up in the United States because he was probably betrayed by a faction, and he was just given up, OK? Now, that plane that flew El Mayo from Mexico into New Mexico, the United States, is in the FBI museum. Come on. Show casing. It's part of a showcase of our successes in like FBI operations. That's talking out of both sides of your ass. Isn't that crazy? That's nuts. I know. So then Mexico freaks out. And Shinbom is like, well, we need to investigate them, because now they're clearly somebody lied to us. And they're trying to basically say that the US has been conducting these unilateral operations in Mexico. And it-- Like, obviously. Yeah, obviously. I know. And the next question, I'm not even blaming them for like being pissed about it. Like, what the fuck are they going to do about it? No, like, what-- OK, what are you going to investigate? Like clearly, the US doesn't give a fuck. Because they put that plane, dude, they were like, yeah, you guys, no, don't worry. We went there. But look at what we just did. It's crazy. We're just sticking in the museum. I mean, my guess is like, it's just her trying to do some political positioning for her own people to act like she's not a total emperor without clothes. But you're going to investigate the CIA and the FBI and get the fuck out of here. But I don't know if it's that, because if she hadn't had-- she brought it up herself. If she didn't want to look like the emperor without clothes, she could have just ignored it. And I don't think people would have really noticed. That's the largest known at the time, drug Traffaker who was internationally wanted was flown out to the United States tied up on a plane not that that the US lied to them about it I mean, where was he flown? It wasn't flown to fucking Costa Rica No, I know you know, I don't know what the play is with this. I really don't but It's weird. It's weird. So this was and I remember you interviewed this guy right? Yeah, and I was and I was getting so much heat from people being like You're making it up. How do you know he's corrupt? How do you know he works for the cartel? I'm like, you were given take a look at this mother fucker He's literally the governor of the worst cartel state If I if I if I were casting a movie on like Rogue governor working for cartels in Mexico. He he's the poster child You look at so governor of Cinaloa and nine other current and former Mexican officials charged with drug trafficking and weapons offenses This is from April 29, 2026. So cat was two years early on this one The defendants allegedly conspired with leaders at the Cinaloa cartel to import massive quantities of narcotics into the United States and Exchange for political support and bribes The United States attorney for Sudden District in New York J Clayton who definitely has never heard of Jeffrey Epstein in his life and an administrator of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration Terrence Cole announced today the unceiling of an indictment charging Ruben Rocha Moa and Rique in Zuaza, Kazarez and Rique Diaz Vega the Maso Castro Zaveidra Marco Antonio Almanza Aviles Alberto Jorge Contreras Núñez, aka Cholo Gerardo Merida Sanchez, Jose Antonio Dinosio Hippolito, aka Tornado, Juan de Dios Gamas Medvedo and Juan Valencia Milán, aka Juanito with drug trafficking and related weapons offenses Milán is additionally charged with offenses related to the participation and kidnappings of a DEA source can't do that And the source is relative that it resulted in their deaths the defendants are all current or former high-ranking government and law enforcement officials in the Mexican state of Sena Loa, including the current governor of Sena Loa Ruben Rocha Moa and our alleged to have partnered with the Sena Loa cartel to distribute massive quantities of narcotics in the U.S. the cases assigned to district judge Catherine Polk all right, so Where did so Rocha Moa? As far as who he was getting paid off obviously by the cartel there, but was he I forget was he loyal to like a faction? Yes. Yeah, so he's loyal to the non-El Mayo faction, so did he Obviously he's still he's governor reform governor after El Mayo is abducted But was that also like a power play for him in the sense that now El Mayo was out there? Well, yeah, because the whole thing was that El Mayo was supposed to be meeting up with chapitos and Rocha Moa to discuss Discuss the future of Sena Loa and their dealings and certain political differences and probably bribes and shit And he's on his and he's on his way to this meeting to meet with this to meet with this very guy Where then he ends up fucking blindfolded in this small aircraft and then on a tarmac in united states tough way to go I'd be pissed I'd be pretty pissed too He was so under the radar for so many years too He let El Chapo be the public guy. He was the private guy the grandfather in the hills if you will and there was Organization Now it's so chaotic there. Yeah, what so their economy is fuck. Yeah, we've had a couple people in talking about some of it recently But I call it around was just here again as well. Oh, yeah, I saw that but what's what's what's their economies fucked was it Functioning before yes, it was good before could Sena Loa kuleka and Masatlan great nightlife So they don't have that now food. They're known for like gastronomy Nothing so people aren't going out people aren't going there tourism's way down because everyone's gonna need done done Yeah, how does that end? I don't know I don't know actually When I was there and I went to one of the crimes in some of the reporters and and the cops were all kind of chatting and Because a report had come out that kuleka's economy is going to go back to normal in the next 10 years and they were all like Fuck this reporter who wrote this and this is bullshit and like fair enough, right? Yeah Um, and I was like yet, but what needs to happen and They were like well exactly what the cops are letting happen which is they all just need to kill each other often Someone needs to prevail in this war That's what's crazy. It's like and I got it man. I don't have a good argument Against this, but it's so dark It's like if you have the devil you know down there and you know that like that's who's in charge and there's not a bunch of devil's shooting each other It's that is better than having the devil shoot each other in terms of like Quality of life for innocent people and just like the society Yes 100% How long were you there at this time two weeks And I wanted to stay longer in it, but I had to go for the story But I every time I go to cinema low, I'm just like oh, I don't know. I love it. I don't know. I think it's the people Mm-hmm every time I'm there and every time I leave I'm like kind of emotional really yeah, I don't know. Yeah I have a heart julienne Somewhere in there deep down. Yeah, deep down frozen But it's so hankulik and it thaws, you know Yeah, that's right So brings an audio And that's that's another problem. It's so hot the everyone's like fucking amped up But people aren't going out at night and stuff right now. No, but they're they're not in because it's too hot in the day All the killings are happening in like evening at late afternoon night They happen they're literally happening in the middle of town all over the place everywhere everywhere everywhere Uh, the Walmart guy walking out just went grocery shopping with his family gun down um Guy in like a residential I literally I went to all of it There was I went to the Walmart parking lot went to residential neighborhood. I went to like a kind of poor area I went to like a really wealthy area Busy not busy. It doesn't matter body body body body like just so many bodies So even like in the wealthy neighborhoods people just get Hit there. I mean, I guess some of them live there. So that makes sense. Yeah They do that's exactly the problem. Yeah, it's everywhere. It's everywhere and it's crazy because like we're going from crime scene to crime scene to show this stuff and like It's just oh the same cops are pulling up. They were just at the last scene all together like it's just like clockwork Is any is anybody winning right now? Memories that I can't say that anymore or ever I don't remember that but okay last episode you asked me at the end and I said That I have made the decision that I will I'm not gonna say yeah, because I will yeah Well, you said the cartel watches this podcast They do yeah, I wasn't surprised by that. Oh, yeah. Hello. How are you? I get it you know when things are active going on there half of it is The politics of the optics of how it looks. So that's how they recruit up. We're doing well You got to join. So yeah, the ones that some other ones that speak English will watch A lot of like some guys who work in it and they were like deported Mm-hmm, right. So they'll watch um, we're gonna have Spanish subtitles soon. So Uh, we're inclusive around here. What was I gonna tell you about that? There was something I wanted well I asked you if someone was winning and said you can't yeah yeah um There is How can I say this I actually can't yeah, no mm-hmm. It's just brutal. It's bodies are dropping all over the place All factions there are unfortunately powerful Continue to be that way fair to say mm-hmm, okay And it's constantly changing like who has control of here and here. It's just it's a blood bath Do we have any idea what the power structures look like like who's Not just number one, but like you know I'm just thinking this in my head bias towards like the US would like the mafia and how they're organized and everything Is there any organization in the middle of like an all-out fucking cartel war like that or is it just like? You know, they got their top 100 guys everyone figured out What do you mean like the way that the that the cartel continues to operate they have a business to run Like eat the either faction they're running drugs. They're doing what they do and all that But in the middle this they're all gone in each other down and shit. They're in the middle of a war So is there any real like power structure that is set up? Yes, there is okay. Yeah In in both the factions, but guys are still people in the power structure getting killed all the time So they have to replace people and that has been problematic because now there are some people that are you know getting hired left right in center and they are Killing innocent people because they don't they're mistake an identity or they're on too much drugs um Just Causing a lot of chaos, but because there's this need for manpower Everyone's in it. Well - Right, now you actually said something earlier when you were talking about the trafficker you were sitting with and the difference was sitting with him that stuck with me where you were saying something along the lines of, you know, when I'm sitting with the other guys, they're cartel guys, they're in the business, they're killing other people in the business and stuff like that, this guy's trafficking innocent people and doing all that and I agree. This guy's horrible and the shit he does is horrible. The only thing is when it comes to the cartel guys and like killing other people in the cartel and stuff, in Mexico, there's, to me, way more spillover. - There is a lot of spillover. - To innocent people. - I know, it's, and I didn't mean to like compartment, like it's still bad, like, you know I'm not, oh, these guys it's different though, whatever, they're cool. - Yeah, I'm not trying to twist your words, I'm just wondering. - But there is a lot of spillover and you know what, like one thing that really stands out to me, it's not just spillover in terms of citizens are dying, that's also like, it's not super common, it's in a law right now, it's mostly, pretty much like all the murders that I attended to, the individual was involved in one way or another, right? Okay, there's like a level of, these are hits that are being taken out. It's not just like the spring bullets and see where it falls. But the one thing that really sticks out to me is the destruction of everyone's livelihood. So it's not just that people are getting killed or like caught in the crossfire literally, it's a matter of so many people have lost their jobs, their livelihoods, their sense of safety. Everyone is super paranoid and on edge all the time. So the quality of life has deteriorated and that to me is very sad. And that's like one thing, as a journalist, that I was taught is like, as a journalist, if a story can negatively impact or like can ruin someone's life like in terms of actually kill them or it can ruin their livelihood, those are one of the same. You, if I have a whistleblower come up to me and they're like, listen, I'm not gonna get killed for telling you this, but my life will be destroyed if you put out my identity. That is just as bad as that person getting murdered. And so seeing in Sinolua how everyone's livelihoods have been ruined, it's very sad. - And you have friends that you over the past who come here as you keep in touch with. - Great people. - Yes. And it's just like, and they're there every day. All the time and it's horrible, I can't imagine. Well, I can, that's why I know it's bad. - Do we, have we seen concrete examples of like law enforcement and stuff that's literally getting in on the hits that are happening there, like doing it themselves, similar, similar to what we saw with that journalist who was killed. - I haven't seen that in, in Julio Gunn. But one thing is for sure is that law enforcement and in Sinolua there's a shit ton of it, okay? That's like all the fucking national guard is there. The army, state police, federal police. - Doing what? - Attending to the scene, that's it. There is, they are not tasked with stopping the crime. - Clean it up after. - That's it. - That's crazy. - They are literally being told, let these guys kill each other off. I was told that word for word from federal police investigation. That's what we're supposed to do. We're not here to prevent this blood bath. They just all need to kind of like exterminate themselves. - How did they work with the existing population though? - That includes a lot of young men between ages eight and 13 and 15 and 16 who are gonna be vulnerable. They're just be the next man up in the next body. - I know, I know. And they're not doing anything. - They don't do anything with that. - No. - It's like putting a band-aid on a bullet hole. - It's like worse. - Yeah. - Just letting it bleed out like a sieve. - Yeah. - I need to go smoke. - Okay, we'll be right back. Also, what's the shit you're getting extorted on? We're back by the way. - Oh God. I'm trying to do this story where I have incredible access. But now, I don't know what changed. This used to never be the case for me and now it is. Everybody like wants something now to give me access, whether it's a pair of Nike runners or some cash or a bottle of something. And it's so brutal. Like a few years ago, I could just pull up, hey, can we chat? No, okay, I'll go fuck myself or yes, great. Like, let's sit down. But now, it's like they want my first born for fucking access. And it's really pissing me off and it's really hard to navigate. But that's okay, I'll figure it out. Because what I'm really curious to find out firsthand is what this new leadership of CG&G looks like. And so I'm really willing to go to any length. Because I'm under the impression that Cedral Thres, which was a mental stepson, had actually been leading CG&G for quite a while before he was allegedly killed. - 'Cause El Menteaux was very sick. - I don't even know if that's why. I just think that it was like this handover of power. - Why would El Menteaux do that? - Cedral Thres, and that's what I want to find out. But I'm under the impression that, yeah, there's Juan Carlos. I think that he is very respected in the organization. He also is an American citizen. He, it seems based on people I've spoken to, whatever, to exude like a really strong sense of power and leadership. And he was definitely highly trusted by Mencho and by the Balenciac clan, you know, that family that he comes from, El Menteaux ex-wife, which we talked about this last year, - Yes. - Kennedys of Mexico. And so I'm really trying to get in and I want to know what has changed or how long he has been the leader for. - So you have sources of some capacity who have been whisper in this. And that's since El Menteaux died, you've started to get this information. - Yes. - Okay. - The El Menteaux thing really like changed so much. And so much of that was just so weird. I know we got into the guts of this last time I was here where the scene just looked set up and why is there no photo of his dead body? When that would be such, there was such a win for Mexico in a way that I feel like if it was the truth, they would have milked the fuck out of it. They've done it with every other kingpin. So yeah, I really want to tell that story. I want to get it and try to get as much information as possible. - Yeah, now you were there. We had you on episode 392 right after you went to the compound and you covered that last time and talked about you were there literally three days after you was killed or something like that. And we got to see some of the videos you took and you talked about how strange the whole-- - Yeah, it's like shell casings littered everywhere but no bullet holes, no damage. - Yeah, now have you got, has there been more to that since then? Have you been able to talk to people that have corroborated? I don't know, some theories about that or why it would have been that way or is it still a huge question mark? For me, it's still a huge question mark and I go back and forth on this and because I've still been trying to pursue the story and fully understand what the power dynamic of CG and G looks like from within Mexico. I have just not been presented with enough solid facts or it's very frustrating because nothing seems to have changed which means either Almencio isn't dead or set up the rest has been the leader for a long fucking time already. - Unless I'm just thinking outside the box here from totally outside looking in unless there was unbeknownst to us which it didn't appear this way by the way when he got killed unless there was a very clear secession plan already long set up meaning like zero traces of pencil is essentially right next to Almencio, hand in hand doing everything and so when Almencio gets taken out he's already been right there maybe not necessarily like literally in charge but he's had his hand on the wheel so now he just takes it. - Totally possible but I think it would be good to understand what the internal dynamics look like right now. Also what are their plans in terms of Sinaloa because CG and G has that alliance with the Chappitas faction of the Sinaloa cartel. - And that hasn't changed? - No that still exists. - Yeah. - So that alliance like are they sending bodies or are they sending more weapons kind of? - It's both but mostly manpower. Yeah. - What? - And I actually found out that after Almencio was killed a ton of the guys who were sent over for that alliance to Sinaloa retreated. - Like on their own or were told to? unclear all I know is that there was up to high level of retreat. Everyone got the fuck out of there and I'm that that's what I'm curious about because Does that mean they were under the impression that the Alliance would fall The Ru because Kingpin has been taken out Um, or was it that this alliance really isn't as strong as we think uh or I don't know I don't know what what's going on there. It could be I you know, I don't want to oversimplify it, but sometimes you'll see In like college football or the NFL or the NBA or something like that There will be a long time head coach and there's a retirement plan in the sense that he's gonna leave and so and so Who's already on the staff is gonna take his place and that's been his right hand forever their best friends He's been training them all that But when so and so takes over yes, there's continuity, but so and so maybe like Yeah, I'm gonna bring in my own athletic trainer though. It's not like every single thing is gonna be the same So I wonder if again playing out that scenario. I just pointed out a few minutes ago It's like if it's like there was a clear The scenarios that there was a clear secession plan and zero trace took over part of the thing that might have been a different calculation for him was You know what maybe we don't need to get involved in that as much and basically calls the boys home Let's worry about this and they're all like oh, yeah, okay. We know he's coming in charge We knew that going in we're good. Let's do it and that would also play into what I talked about with you last time that It's quite possible that elemental was going to surrender during this operation and he wasn't supposed to die He was just supposed to be taken into custody because his son Request to reduce his his sentencing in December so two months before mental was taken out Yeah So the it with him running it though It's been pretty business as usual. It's it's been business as usual entirely Because after all of this happened I I really thought that we would see like a gulic and also type of thing right where uh a lot of the the Top guys Sapple how do the nettle are Gunning for power we didn't see that happen and then how do the nettle was captured in like April so It seems like there are really big players within CG and G that are falling However, the actual organization seems to be business as usual and running very smoothly which is not typical for Yeah, no CG. Yeah. Now how it how has their business been with The new administration being you know, obviously still have a lot of problems on the border but being much stricter As opposed to the previous administration just from like a flow and revenue standpoint. Well the thing is flow in terms for CG and G has been pretty solid because This administration their main concern was the fentanyl right. I mean oh, so they say even though they didn't declare it a WMD until like a year later um in December mm-hmm, but CG and G is very much humans myth coke and Fuel theft what you call that's all business as usual and cocaine is flooding the US like never before with no problem What about so with the human part though? Obviously, there's a lot that goes into that everything from like coyotes running people across the border and stuff Which obviously on some level they're still able to do but like you broke up in the story with La Diabla that you referenced earlier that You know was this horrible thing where the babies? Yeah, where they're basically abducting Young mothers getting them pregnant and stripping the babies on and selling them which is just like can't even imagine that but After your report came out the United States And Mexican authorities were able to at least get rid of that No, but are there other operations even if it's not the same thing that are similar in their level of disgustingness that they're doing the human trafficking stuff is actually happening Within Mexico within Mexico. Yeah, so they're bringing in women from Columbia, Venezuela, you know South America and they're Working them in Mexico whether it's in Mexico City or border towns They're sourcing them from other South American countries. Mm-hmm. So they have Obviously operations on the ground in those countries. Oh, of course. Yeah Yes, and CGG has a really tight Colombian connection Is it more like a sociates in Columbia who work directly with them or is it like literally they're sending their guys to the awaiting Both and mostly they have like CGG guys posted up in Columbia And then what do they do traffic these girls and shipping containers? It's mostly just it's flights there. They're not like kidnapping victims. They're Being offered modeling jobs or waitress jobs When they get there. Yeah, they're working as prostitutes and even for some of the girls They're being told like and even a lot of them are going to Europe to Spain. Yeah Amsterdam And the cartels has serious operations there on the ground Yeah, especially for the sex trafficking because they have access to the women and so even a lot of these girls They some of them are already like sex workers in a capacity in like Columbia for example, okay And then they'll meet a guy who's like do you want to make like $20,000 but you have to go to Spain Yeah, okay, and then obviously once they get there they're being worked to the bone and they have to pay off the debt That they incurred by being brought over there right your plane ticket your Lodge and board all of that so That's Problematic and obviously those debts never go away. They just continue to grow Of course, it's set up. It's basically a Ponzi scheme to keep them in Sloan shark into the highest grade to keep them in and after what happened in the earthquake in Venezuela It really picked up too because what's the correlation there? So There's this massive environmental crisis, right and everyone's freaking out and law enforcement or authorities whatever responding to so many different things Everyone's looking the different a different direction so kids and girls are getting picked up Whether it's kidnapped whether it's through They're being lured It's a big problem. It's a big problem because they become very vulnerable I think there's actually some like public videos about it the fact that and this is way beyond the cartels This is an international thing. This is something unfortunately. It's huge in America too the fact that a business A crime like human trafficking Whether it's kids whether it's women any form of it The fact that it is as large and rampant of a fucking fortune five company. I know if you will Around the world to this day With all the technology we have all the interconnection we have all the I don't know more awareness on the stuff We have the fact that it is that large is one of the most depressing things ever because it's like Man will we ever be able to get rid of it even if people are still so willing and able to do it and get away with it in the highest of places of society and all over the place in a world that is that interconnected I actually think that that expansion of tech Helps them. It's not something that is a deterrent or like helps authorities It helps them like for example Okay 20 years ago money laundering was straight-up cash and you're giving like the The number on the bill which is like the password to hand over the cash bubble bought Now it's all crypto and remittance and it's you can't trace any of that So as tech evolves So does their capacity as criminal organizations? There Should be some sort of cancellation out though, you know, and like we I worry so much about the surveillance state and shit like that trust me There's a lot there like that's not what I'm going at at all But I'm like there should be some ability to get more communication among the public like the the masses to be able to Assist in stopping this now. I got to say In America, I think that should be a lot easier and we do a horrible job with that here I have to admit in a place like Mexico for example like the place that you mentioned earlier where the whole town's fucking in on it It's hard. It's at that It's just so sad that something like that exists so openly today But it's hard It's really shitty and it's really hard to wait when you begin to understand the level of how many people are affected by this It's brutal and there's so much money involved in so many different people in in high places That there is no ending the question that I was always getting asked was okay. Well, how do you end the cartels or how do you end drugs and people are oh, you know You just have to kill the demand. Well, obviously there's a demand for everything. It's that's never going to work and after seeing and doing this sex trafficking story and seeing that it's not That your daughter is just going to be scooped up off the street and ends up in a brothel It's that she's going to fall in love with some guy and be so deeply manipulated that just like the woman I interviewed, after having been pimped out by him for 10 years, she still considers him to be her husband. Even when she's presented with the evidence that it was an operation. The worst. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He right now because he runs girls in the United States with his family. But I have a child with him, so I will never cut him off and that was my first love. And I said to her, I said, how can you love someone or continue to be with someone who made your life a living hell? And she said, because if I'm not with him, I will be alone because no other man will accept me for having done what I did. But he accepts me. Bro. It was fucking insane. He accepts me for the things that he made me do in the first place. I said, what is that like having to have given sexual services to 30 men every night for 10 years? She's like, is the worst thing you could possibly imagine? She said she didn't sleep for years. Like it literally did not sleep. How do you have any? I don't know how you have any kind of human connection or relationship in any way after you're subject in yourself to something like that. It's always transactional. It's purely, you can't. And I interviewed a woman who she's not trafficked and she works as a prostitute in a border town and does like her own thing. Like she's independent, she's been doing it for like over 20 years. And I said to her, I was like, how do you have personal relationships or romantic relationships? Because I brought up the other woman. I said the other woman I spoke to said she will never be able to. And she says, I can. But if there's no money piece, it doesn't work. That sense of a genuine romantic or loving connection has been completely destroyed. That does not exist anymore. And I can only imagine how much worse it would be for someone like the woman in the scholar that I spoke to, who was absolutely betrayed by someone she thought loved her. The fact that that's such a common operation they run to is wild. She said when they went to TJ, there were five other girls in and out living in the house with them because that's all the girls he was running. And he was. He had done that to all of them too. Yeah. How do you marry all of them? He didn't marry all of them. I don't actually even know if she's legally married to him. But he was all of their boyfriend, love of their lives. And she knows that. Yeah. But she also said she goes, but there's a part of him that loves me. And I was shook to my core. When you say to that, I have, oh, I cried in this interview. Like I started tearing up and I was trying to hold it back and that's never happened to me. Or I did with the, yeah, the mom and her. But when you're hearing that, like, you have been so battered and just everything stripped of everything that you have, your identity and dignity, anything, it's all gone. I felt so bad for her genuinely. I felt so sorry for her. How did she react when you were crying? Oh, because she was crying. Oh, she was. Yeah. What made her cry? What was it that made her cry? Oh, what made her cry? I asked her because she has a son. And I said, if you had had a daughter and I was going to ask her what would have happened if she had had a daughter, like, would she also be recruited into this? And before I could finish my question, she was like, I pray to God every night that I would never get pregnant with a girl. And then she's bawling and she goes, I would never want to have a daughter. I would never bring a girl into this world because it's horrible for women. Whoa. So she knows in the back of her head what it is, but then she cognitive dissonance in the front about the guy who's the root cause of her having that opinion in the first place. Yes. Yes. What about her son? Is she worried about him being recruited into doing what his dad does? I asked that. And she said she doesn't know. And she's going to cross that bridge when it gets there. Crossed that bridge. Because I said that I said, would your your son's father take him and bring him into this? And she goes, I don't know. But what I'm trying to do is raise him the best I can so that if that is ever presented to him, he knows that it's wrong. Does the son have a relationship with the father? Yeah. And has no idea. He has no idea. But he was the devil to his mother. And she and I said that to her, I said, why didn't you just take off with the kid and just ditch this guy entirely? And she goes, I'd never won. I didn't want my child to grow up without a father. This one. Even that one. I know. Did you say that? What? Like, you probably would have said that a lot and I said I made, but like even that one. Like that guy? Yeah. Like, like that's, I can't say that. That's a judge. Of course. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, but was there a way you were able to be like, have you thought about the trade off of like, this being his father versus not having a father, which also isn't great, agreed? I mean, I've spoken with some really evil people who are great parents. Yeah. Yeah. Love their kids. Mm-hmm. I've heard that about a lot of carto guys by the way. Oh, they're like, that they are top notch for that. People, but treat their kids like, they're absolute angels when it comes to their kids. And so even though this guy is definitely a horrible person and ruin this woman's life. Oh, and I actually asked for that. I said, did he ruin your life? Because, and I know, would never ask something like that, but it was so in it with her. And she said, yeah. Wow. So she knows that and she's still. But there's some weird, it's, it's like a, what do you call it? Helsinki Syndrome. Is that what that is? Something like that. No, it's not Helsinki. It's Stockholm. Stockholm. Yeah. Helsinki. It's another one over there. Milano Syndrome. Whatever. Yeah. That's, that's what it is. Because then I was telling her, I'm like, oh, so he's in the state. So you don't see him. She goes, he comes sometimes. He pays for costs related to the child allegedly. So he's all the time. I take it. He's not a citizen in the United States. I don't know. I almost think he might be based on the way she was telling me about certain operations of his and with the whole family too. And she, she said, yeah, he pays for all of her stuff. And then I asked her, well, what do you think you would have done if this didn't happen? And she's like, I always, I like baking. I would have like to have a bakery, bro, that's it. It's so fucking sad. Like, that's just the simplest way to put it. You wanted to be a baker? Where are her parents? Are they alive? So this is why this is such a twofold problem because I'm, I met with her family. Because I asked her why she didn't call her family and ask for help. And she said, well, he was monitoring my phone and also, you know, I didn't want to bird in my parents, whatever. And when I met with her family, they still refer to him as their son-in-law. Is it, didn't you say correct me from wrong? They were targeting like young innocent, preferably virgin conservative households. Oh, she lost her virginity with him. Right. This is like a very family values kind of household you're talking to. And they referred to him as the son-in-law. And they knew I'm under the impression that they were profiting off of it. The family? Yeah. Yeah. You'll see it in my report. I really lay it all out. How it makes sense. What made you think that? How they talked about how he paid for these renovations on their house and they added it. Oh, man. And they said that openly. And I said, did you ever wonder like what was happening to your daughter while she was in to one of her 10 years and they said, well, you know, we figured that she was fine because she was with him. And it's very common in this region, Laxcala, for families to just kind of turn a blind eye or be complicit in it because they're also receiving money from it. And I think that's why she was so willing to talk to me and tell me her story because there was like this part of her in the back of her mind that knew all these truths, but it is so traumatized to traumatize to accept them. And based on our phone call, I think she realized if I tell this girl what happened, like at least someone will fucking know. Does that make sense? And I hope that doesn't sound ecotistical. No, no, she had nowhere else to turn. There's very talk to you. Your family is profiting and bragging about the money that they're making from. you getting fucked all for just, oh my God. And I don't even literally mean like fucked like sex. I mean, like literally just getting fucked over. - Did you tell them, did you tell the family the details of what you knew? - About her? - Yeah. - Not at no, that's not my place. - You have to keep that. - Definitely not. I would never do that to someone. 'Cause I don't know what they know. - Or under the impression that they probably know in the back of their head. - Oh, they know. - So many things are happening. - They know. - Did you talk to her about, so you talk to her, then you talk to the family in that order, right? - I talk to her family and then her. - Oh, and then her, okay. So remind me here, did you already know the details before you talked with her about what specifically was happening to her other than that she was traffic? Meaning like did you know she was sleeping with 30 guys at night? - No, she, that's all from her. - Okay. - To the extent that what I knew about her was she was traffic to, and was there for 10 years, that was all I knew. And the family told me that. - They said, use the word traffic. - No, they said that she was working. - Well, only one. - Yeah. - But you at least knew that wasn't true at the time. You knew, okay. But you didn't know the details. - I didn't know how bad she had it. And I felt kind of stupid too, when she started telling me and I was like, how the fuck did I not? - Yeah, but how would you, I mean, that's so right. - I was also so paranoid to meet with her because this was like literally the day after they tried to run us off the highway. So I was like, fuck, I'm gonna get set up. This is gonna be some bullshit, especially if she's still with the trafficking guy. Like we're gonna get fucking killed. - It wasn't in a public place at all. - I brought her to a hotel room, to my hotel room actually. But I had already packed everything in the car so that right after the interview would just get the hell out of there. - No, yeah. - Did you, and again, maybe this totally isn't your place, but after talking with her for a while, did you ask her if she would be willing at this point to herself, I'd not come clean, but like confront her family. Like, hey, this is happening to me. Or this is happening. - I definitely did not ask that. And also, she's so, beating down. - Right. - That's not someone who can, even that won't even cross her mind. She's still with him, in a sense. - I know, that's crazy. - Offered, by the way, to call him during our interview and not say that I'm there and talk about things with him that happened in TJ. Would that have been like, oh my God, crazy for the story and for the people watching? Yes, but that is so dangerous for her. So I was like, fuck no. - Yeah. - Good call. Now, you talked with another trafficker or two, or a second one. Was this guy the same as the first one? Very similar or what were the vibes here? - Same vibes. - Same vibes. - Did he work with the first one? - No, separate. - Separate. But here's the thing. One thing that I keep being told over and over again by all these people involved that I talk to are like, there's a difference between being a sex trafficker and a Pimp and even though they're considered the same. - Okay. - And I'm like, yeah, 'cause it's the same fucking thing. But they are convinced. No, I'm not a sex trafficker. I'm just a Pimp. - Tomato tomato. I don't understand. - I know. - What is their cognitive logic there? If you're in charge of women who are sleeping with other men and-- - They're benefiting off of that. Because they say, well, we're not kidnapping them. This is like a thing. They're like, we're not kidnapping them. If they wanna leave, they can't. - Yeah, okay. So you should've said, all right, if I pick one out and she's okay leaving, I'm off her job, you'll just let her walk out of here. - They won't leave, though. They won't, because they are in love with the trafficker. - Yeah. - They won't. - Yeah, it's also like grooming 101. - Oh, textbook. - Textbook. So it's not even possible to consider them free will employment. - If I went to one of these girls right now who's on the corner and in that situation and said, I'll give you $10,000. If you never come back here and you start a business and do something, go to school, I don't know, whatever. She'll end up back there, or she won't leave in the first place. - That's crazy. - And actually, I watched a movie about this. By, I think Sam Baker, the same guy who did like, Anora. - Okay. - And, right? Yeah, and Florida Project. He did this movie. What is it like, white lines and palm trees or something like that? And it's literally what this is happening. And I remember watching that and thinking, okay, fiction, right? But this is super fucked up. And then I go and I do this story and I had this moment of realization. I'm like, this is exactly like that movie. But this is real life. And this is exactly how it's happening. - And we got it, Deep. Yeah, from 2022. - Jamie Dack. - Jamie Dack explores the chilling and isolating relationship between a disconnected 17 year old girl and a man twice her age. - And he does this to her. Like, he literally is like, okay, baby, we need money now. And she's so in love with him. She sleeps with the guy. She's so disgusted and scared. Leaves him and then goes right back with him. - Is it in America? - Yeah. - So it's also. - But it's fiction. But this is literally what's happening. And it's so sad. - Yeah, it happens all the time. - Imagine your family's also profiting off of it? Fuck off. - It's like a, you know, we use the example all the time for different contexts of like the Truman show and how all those actors can go. Hey, Truman, you're not gonna do that, right? And they just do that for years and years and years to this poor guy is in the middle of a reality TV show that he doesn't know he's in. That same kind of like horror film. - You're gonna do what I day to do, right? - That's exactly. - That's exactly what exists in all this. And you're seeing live, you're in the middle of it and you're like, you son of a bitch. You know, even if you don't know, like with the parents, exactly what you're doing. You know it's evil. You know, she's being used like crazy. Your daughter's probably being run through by a bunch of dangerous people. - Nasty people. - But you got your house reservation or renovation. - That's how much you value your daughter. So how do you expect a woman like that to value herself? - Are there identities on camera or are you blurring out their identities? - I made her wear a balaclava. - Right, the family though. - Oh, family, no. No, no, not because I don't want to identify her. - Yeah, good call. - At the end of the day, oh, yeah, there's certain exposure shit I could do, whatever. But I always have to think about the source and her safety and livelihood for life. So yeah, no, there's so much that has to be blurred, cut out, can't even include in the episode because I don't want any of it to come back to her. - Yeah, and you were saying obviously, there's certain things that aren't your place like your job is to capture the story and these are the people who were in it. But she obviously trusted you to a strong extent to even come do this. And then you talked with her for a while, it got personal. You're seeing all the different dichotomies here. You know, after that, I'm not saying you're blunt with her like, "Hey, I'll help you honor anything like that." But have you had any conversations with her that are like, "I don't wanna say like manipulating it all." But like in a good way, like trying to mentally guide her to see like, "Hey, you know, maybe there's a better life there." - No, that's not my place. If she asked me for help, I would see if I could give it. But I would never offer help 'cause it can just make things worse. I learned that the harder way, you can't, even no matter how bad you feel, you can't try to change someone's situation unless they're actively seeking it out. - When did you learn that? - Like a few years ago. - You don't wanna talk about it? - No, you can't, especially people in such like harrowing situations like this, and it's so beyond me, and it's not my job. You know, if she called me and said, "Can you help me with some, and I can, maybe I will," or point her in the right direction to get what she needs. But I would never, on my own free will, call her and say, "Hey, let me help you out with this." Because a lot of the times you can just make shit worse. You're never supposed to give help unless people ask. - Unless people ask. - Yeah, and I wouldn't be saying, be that blonde about it. But, you know what I mean? Where you're like trying to guide the puck towards one end of the ice and you're saying, don't do that at all. - Also, it's like, yeah, no, she's so in her head. There's no way. - All right, sorry, we lost audio for one second, we're just closing the loop on this girl in their situation. Are you working on some other stories that aren't heard that are related to this subject matter right now as well? No, I need a break. You know how it is. Yeah, these are the worst ones, and these are the ones that I said I was never gonna do. But now I can't not, but I need a break from this. So now we focus back on curtail girl 101 and hopefully unpack the new or pre-existing power dynamic with NCG and what that looks like and what it means for Mexico and also Mexican elections will be coming up soon. But before we get there though, are you allowed to talk about on air that thing you and I were talking about you potentially doing for a story? That currently hasn't happened yet. Oh No, don't bring that up. Okay, and that's like we're on air right now. So don't say no, I know and but that's also like the yeah, that's that's a big one and I It's been very hard to get so I don't want to bring. Yeah, and I was supposed to have that before coming to you. That's why you were coming. I'm so sorry. No, it's all good. This is how it goes. Yeah No, it's no, it's all good. I hope I hope that works out. I'm so frustrated about that because it will be the fucking story. Again, just be careful because every time you're doing. I was literally going to say like that's the one story where it's like a 50 50 I come out of their life, which aren't terrible odds because that's like 50% I actually live. You know, maybe don't do that one. No, I have to if it's you don't have to do anything. It's Incredible. That would be incredible. But so here's my devil's advocate to that. I know for a fact that there are things in the past. That you Made the correct decision to not go all the way and try to go farther on stories where it was clear. Mm-hmm. Very clear that like It'll definitely be the last story you ever do at the very least. You know what I mean? And if that is coming up If with what you're thinking of is coming up against that kind of fence You know, you already do a lot of great work. There's other ones out there. Like I'm dead serious like you should if something and I know you're joking all that but maybe I like miss out on certain stuff by saying no, you know And I think you're always going to wonder that and I think that this story is it's so valuable to All the reporting that I do like that's it's invaluable information and It's worth it. Yeah, it's a good one Have you bumped into stories where you're seeing Outside of like on my own stuff that's public and obvious where You get the alarm bells going up that there's Strong intelligence involvement whether it's from the US side or other places. Oh totally all the time Yeah, and it's it's really obvious. Yeah. What makes it obvious? Well, how long ago did it happen that there the two CIA officers died in a car crash? That was not that long ago and then The Mexican president saying She didn't know about that, but she doesn't technically have to know about that But you would think that like if there are two known CIA operatives Demat dismantling a meth lab in Chihuahua on mexican soil That that probably means that the US is in your country probably Feel like they've been here a while not to mention they were dressed in mexican copy uniforms. Yeah Crazy. Yeah And then you know what my problem with this is so this has been like the one thing that everybody asks me especially over the course of the last two years of like Is american intelligence in mexico are there boots on the ground in mexico and I was always like yeah And then people were like this girl is trying to perpetuate an invasion in mexico. That's what she wants I don't want that. I'm just telling you how it is. Yeah, like it's right in front of our faces And if you're denying it, you're just fucking stupid. They declared them terrorist organizations What typically happens after the United States does that and what so I've asked this of pretty much everyone to come in here I think including you four months ago when you were last year, but like You know in your view what is completely stopped Those types of operations like clear boots on the ground boom boom kill kill kill from happening since they declared this what over a year ago now something like that They don't need to do that if they're turning these guys against each other They're the cartels are doing that for for them. They don't need to do these fucking like carpet bombing shit It just gives them optionality. They literally what do you do you turn the cartel against each other like what they did with sinaloa By capturing myo There I was just I saw it. They're killing each other. It's a fucking blood bath So why would the US need to go in and do it and then be considered the enemy when they can do it so low key and with their psi up shit That they're getting what they want anyways No, I'm not I want to be clear before I say this because you got to be clear about this stuff now apparently with the internet I'm not advocating for any is fucking cartel guys down there are saying oh my god We always get this fucking comment. We always get this comment but she fucks everyone in the cartel That's why they give her access. I mean I wasn't going there, but yeah, that's ridiculous too. I'm just saying like It's similar vibes to me and I've cited this with other examples of other stuff before like you had Scott percent The Treasury Secretary of the United States going to Davos in January and bragging to people laughing about The fact that he was about to put new sanctions on Iran that was going to bring their currency effectively to zero Which he then knew would cause people to go into the street to say nothing of the people on the ground They were probably going to help make that happen as well Which would force a regime which is bad people that run the regime to then be bad and kill the people there And result in hopefully some revolution that didn't end up happening by the way And he was laughing about this and it's like no one's arguing that the regime's good but like If I walk outside and I see a fentanyl addict fucking cracking out and I go inside and I Go get a semi-automatic weapon for him and load it and then hand it to him and he goes and kills people Well, I think I get tried and accord a law for accessory to murder. So To me the Iran thing is similar to that in a way Oh totally and then when I look at this There's innocent people that get caught in the crossfire of this stuff too So when you just hit that button it's like yeah, you know Just can't for this gun make sure those motherfuckers it will all be down there. They'll just fight each other It's like there's gotta be I know the world's complicated. It's gotta be a better way. I'm gonna spill over the border And that was we I was always getting that question and I I don't know I think you might have brought it up But I think you're too smart to ask me a stupid question like that I got that on a few podcasts. Well, is this gonna spill over into the border? Thank you Why would that happen? Yeah Do you really think cartels are going to declare war on the United States of America? Do you know how many times people ask me that? They're they're business guys and they're not dummies either. They want money. Yeah Point blank. Yeah, you got it. They're providing a good and a service where there is high demand and very high profit You imagine if the cartels Like you know blew up a fucking building in the United States They'd be gone Like a couple a couple days later that would be literal suicide All right, if they I and I must say if that ever happens just know it was not the cartel I don't even think that would be a good false flag candidate. I think there's a million I'd do before that If I were the US government. Oh, yeah, totally I think you're right about that though. No, they would never do that. They would they even cleaned it up After the almento thing was like 24 hours. They're like, okay, we're good. Thank you. Sorry We'll just file out everyone good. All right, cool It's like cars are still burning and shit like they're business. They're crazy. They're bad guys But they're you're absolutely right. They're business. Yeah, and I I do think that's a big tension is bad for business Negative attention is bad for their business. Yep, and that's why like when people are always like cat Why haven't they killed you yet because that's just bad for business It is way I hate to put it like this. It's just true just optically speaking looking at it from like the US seat It would be way worse if they killed an English speaking journalist who operates in any capacity ever in the United States or Canada or something Versus and it's still bad optics, but killing one of their own. Oh, I know, you know But also here's like when it's not even about the optics when they kill one of their own It's about the impunity because nothing ends up happening after that and that story dies Just with her which is so tragic so far, but that's how it operates in Mexico Yeah, and you so we see this time and time again And I'm always concerned for my friends who are journalists in Mexico like especially the ones in kulekan They're in the fucking trenches and they're incredible and incredibly talented people Do you are there any you know? I feel like I know the answers question, but are there any of them down there that you know well Who speak English as well? Who would ever be willing to come in here or would that be way too dangerous for them to do? That English is the problem - Really? - Yeah. - You think some of them would do it on camera in the United States? - Wait, who are you asking about? - Like the journalists? - One of the journalists down there. Yeah. - They would definitely do it. - They really? - Totally. Oh, these people have big balls. - Clearly. - Oh, they are, they do not. I think the English would be the problem. - Mm-hmm. - Still good on them. I mean, that's, you know, if ever one of them-- - And they're seeing the worst shit. - Yeah. - Like, I was there for two weeks and I saw so many dead people and I was like, okay, it's time to get the hell out of here. And there's just a lot of, when you're in a place like that, there's just weird stuff going on at all times. You can feel it. You see, some things weird, some things off, always. And also keep in mind like, yeah, some of these people are getting gunned down. Other of them, others are getting like mutilated and you're arriving to the scene with like, to report and it's like a head in a pizza box with like, the legs hanging from some shit like-- - For all of our problems that we have here and we have plenty of self-inflicted problems and issues that we fight over and shit like that in America, I'm not saying like, we're in the greatest moment right now. But just some of the basic like, social contract acceptances that at least exist in this country across 99.9% of the population. I literally wake up some days partially 'cause I do this job and hear about all kinds of things all over the world where I'm like, grateful literally that we just have at least that because you're talking about places right now where it is an accepted norm. - Yes. - That they have to live with things that are literally animalistic and there's fuck all they do about it. - Savage, yes. And that's why it's very hard for me every time I come to United States because I am an absolute cunt at dinner table conversations. I can't, I can't do it. You're gonna tell me what your fucking allergies shot up. First of all, allergies don't exist. It's mental. Second of all, I literally just saw like 30. - I used to say the same thing. - And now what you're allergic to milk that doesn't happen. - I got really sick for four years. - Oh, we talk, you told me about this. - I used to say the same thing to people when they would walk in and be like, "Oh, the pollen sucks out." - Shut up, shut the fuck up. But yeah, when I got to bad, you will. - When you're seeing this day and day out, right? It obviously changes your brain chemistry and we talked about this and this is why there is this incentive for young people to join the cartels and not feel any sort of way about it because they've absolutely dismantled any sense of humanity, right? And so two stories about this when I was, I was just in, 'cause I was doing the story, right? - The trafficking one. - Mm-hmm, but I decided to do like a little ride along with another really talented reporter there who also covers the Breaking Crime News. And so we go to a homicide and it's this guy, like a homeless guy murdered 15 bullet holes. What the hell? And you know, this was the first, the first body that I've seen killed like that where it was someone who you just know was like not involved at all. And that felt so fucking different. 'Cause, and I never wanted to be this bitch, but I'm becoming that bitch. In Kuliekan, everyone that you're seeing murdered is like involved in some way. And like even when their families are like at the scene crying and grieving, they're almost, they have the sense of like, fuck it, finally did happen, you know? - Jesus. - Because there's like this awareness of some level of involvement. - It's like you're living with a guillotine over your head. - But in TJ, it was different because this guy was not involved at all. And it was the first time I saw something like that. And it felt terrible. And then a bunch of other like homeless guys came up to me in the reporter that I was with. And they're like, is that Sergio? And I'm like, I don't know, do you know him? And then the guy looks and I'm like, hey, look, then I zoom in on my camera so he can see and he goes, fuck, it's Sergio. And I'm like, what happened? He goes, I don't fucking know, but this is not, he wasn't like that. Just like a normal guy. Come to find out that it was a distraction for something because in that same moment, like 11 or 12 people were detained at airport with kilos. And there was like another, I don't remember exactly what it was, there was like another operation. So obviously all the law enforcement attends to this homicide where it was like just sprayed with bullets. This poor guy, like an older man. He doesn't need to be shot 15 times. Also probably done by a new recruit who they are trying to dismantle his humanity and any sense of feeling by telling him, go and fucking kill this guy. And he's also probably a bit nervous. He's probably on drugs. So he just empties the fucking clip. That's another thing and you talk about this a lot, but like, I never understood why the cartels sanction so many, I don't want to say sanction, but like are okay with so many of their rank and file, like being on drugs. Like rule number one, don't get high on their own support. For the cicareos, they need them to be on drugs. 'Cause they're not thinking about any consequences. They're amped up. You get a guy on meth, he'll go and kill whoever you need. And he'll make sure he's dead because he's just trigger happy. And a lot of those guys will do it for cheaper if they're getting the dope. Like if they're supplying their drugs, you can pay me less because at least I'm getting my high for this job. But there was so much murder that, and I was exhausted. I've been like on one. It's just been assignment after assignment. And I went to take a nap and I knew that I was gonna get my period and when I took a nap, I had a dream that I was in an oxo, which is a Mexican corner store. Because I was craving cookies with ice cream. So I'm dreaming that I'm getting cookies with ice cream but they start shooting up the oxo in my dream. And so I drop to the floor and continue to eat my ice cream. I have these nightmares all the time. It's terrible where they're like, I'm getting shot at but I keep surviving every bullet. And then I only woke up from the dream, not because I was scared, but because the cookie in the dream tasted so good, I was drooling in the drool. We'll clean up. So imagine, and I don't live in Kolega and I don't live in teach, like I'm not Mexico City, this is urban, normal, normalcy to an extent. - Right. - But these people are living with this day and day out. - You can never turn it off. - And then I have law enforcement telling me that we're just here to attend. We're not here to prevent, we're not here to stop this war. So all of the young people witnessing this are just going to be, like you said, the next guys in charge. - I've done probably 25 podcasts at this point on cartels and stuff. Like we've done so many across a lot of people. This is your fifth time in here. And you know, they had called a rounds of the world and people on this side of the border who are fighting against it and things like that. And people going across the border to do that. And like the one kind of like cynically depressing thing is that it really is just a dark flat circle. Like the whack 'em all. One guy gets gone, the next three mushrooms sprout up. And you know, you'd like to think there's a light, even if it's far off at the end of a tunnel somewhere. But this one just feels like, you know, I'm going to be 75 years old, talking about whoever's in charge, whatever. - It's never going to end. - But does it go the way of like the Italian-American mafia still operates with some power here, right? But they're not what they were when they built that shit. That's Skyline right there. They're not that, they're a tenth of that today. And it's like devil, you know, devil's less powerful. Okay, cool. Do you see a scenario where we could be sitting here 20, 30 years from now? And we're thinking that way about the cartels. - I think that there's definitely not in 20 or 30 years. But also, I just genuinely think that there's so much money circulating and so many industries that are run by them that I don't think it will get to that. And I think too many people profit off of it. And they just have too much power. They have too many legitimate industries too. - That's the, yeah. - Yeah, what's the, what's the, you said the like the C.J. N.G. - The crude oil. - Oil, crude oil is operating business as usual. - Oh, so many American refineries are buying stolen crude oil from Mexico through the cartels. - I mean, are you aware of any and active investigations into that on our side of the border for the people doing it? - Yeah, yeah, there's actually the gentsons or whatever from Utah, father and son. - Yeah, but that one, that one's been happening. - That one, yeah, that's like a year now. - If it's so rampant, like. - And then they just got a massive tanker at the San Diego port filled with stolen oil. - And a US buyer. - Mm-hmm. - Mm-hmm. - Are they prosecuting them? - That one, I don't know. - I mean, you gotta know who you are. You're fucking buying that. - You should be doing it at all, it's illegal, but like. - No, they do know. - Yeah. - They're buying it for like 50% of the price. - That's crazy. And again, like the whole drug market in America is why the cartels even exist in the first place. Like the marketability and that's buying it here. - And so many people involved in high levels in Mexican government are directly profiting off of that stolen crude oil. - They're like fully involved in that. More than drugs even. - Do we have any idea how big of a business that this dollar was? - Oh, I did have this number in my head and I don't have it in my head. - We're gonna Google it deep. What's the estimated dollar value on a legal cartel related crude oil per year? - I think it's like 70 million. - I don't know. So it's-- - Oh, 12 billion. - 12 billion to 21 billion annually. The stolen oil and illicit fuel business in Mexico, this vast underground economy makes up an estimated 16 to 27% of all fuel consumed in the country. - So that's obviously including the inter-state, inter-country trafficking of it as well. But that's wild. Direct theft alone accounts for nearly 1.2 to $1.5 billion in losses to Pemex each year. - Yeah, because fuel is monopolized in Mexico. - Yeah, in Mexico, it's just Pemex. There's nothing else. It's federal. - That's crazy. - What's been happening with Ryan Wedding? I haven't heard shit about that. - So his jeweler, they're trying-- this guy who bought his jewelry, they're trying to extradite him to the US. - The guy who bought his jewelry. - Hold on, wait, let me get this right, because I actually have not had time to go in that night. I was just wanting to report on-- - All right, for everyone out there is a refresher while Kat's looking that up. Ryan Wedding, prominent international drug trafficker working with the cartels used to be an Olympic snowboarder, right, or skier. - Snowboarder, yeah. - Snowboarder for the Canadian national team ended up down in Mexico, became, I guess he thought he was Pablo Escobar and was in Colombia and was wanting for a long time and then I was like, he surrendered himself. - He did. - He surrendered himself to authorities and he was extradited to the US, right, and that was what, like eight months ago? - January. - Yeah, yeah, so six, seven months ago, something like that. All right, so Ryan Wedding, link jeweler, who bought $13 million Mercedes, a step closer to US extradition, extradition hearing set it set for a ledge money wanderer as co-accused fight moves to face US charges. All right, let's go down. A Toronto area jeweler accused of acting as the quote, thirding command, unquote, informer Olympic snowboarder, Ryan Wedding's alleged cocaine empire could be sent to California by the end of the year to stand trial. Roland Sokolowski, who went by the aliases sushi and apple pie was ordered, I feel like you can do better than that. Was ordered Wednesday to appear for the extradition hearing and Ontario's superior court on December 3rd, US prosecutors alleged Sokolowski served as a de facto bank for wedding by moving hundreds of millions in drug money and procuring the long-time fugitive luxury goods, including an ultra rare $13 million US Mercedes CLK GTR roadster, the 38-year-old former professional poker player, appeared Wednesday before a provincial judge by video link from Maplehurst jail in Ontario, where he's been detained since his arrest last November, according to court documents, the Lithuanian born Sokolowski is accused of using cryptocurrency platforms and his Toronto area business, Diamond Soar, to launder proceeds for Wedding's transnational criminal enterprise. - And so this is the one thing that always stands at about Wedding is he had so many financial connections transnationally, it linked all the way back to Canada to the US, to Mexico, to Columbia. And I think that's why he was able to grow his so-called empire so like expansively because he had all these people involved and then he had his Canada-based lawyer who was telling him who to take hits out on. And then he had this human trafficker in Columbia who was taking out the hits for him. He was running it like no problem. Super violent guy, also great father apparently. - Great father. Good for him. - Love the bus kids. Like I said, I have heard that a lot. - I mean, I wanted to bring that up. He's like the perfect example of this. - Yeah. - It's a separate part of their braid. - Switch. - It's like in Primal Fear. There's Aaron and there's Roy. Have you ever seen that movie? - Primal Fear, yes. Here's the thing, I think that because Ryan Wedding was linked to the Chepitos and your government for some reason continues to make deals with them. - Yeah, they like, we like them apparently. - Have you noticed that? - Yeah. It's almost like we've worked with them for a long time. - Wait, wait. - Looking at you, CIA. - And I think that that'll really help him because that's the organization that he was working with. But the US, the one thing the US has been doing lately has continuously been making it very clear that they really want the two remaining sons that are free of El Chepo, Jesus Alfredo and Iban Archivaldo. And for some reason, like every US agency keeps tweeting about it on repeat that they want Iban. Don't forget, there's $5 million her Iban. By the way, nobody gets that money. And so we'll see what happens. But I think that those two will probably go down together and if that is the case, that in a way is the end of the Sinaloa cartel as we once knew it. - The end 'cause it's a fracture for when we're in new cancers. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's why as we knew it. - Right, right. But there will be, yeah. I, again, I almost wonder if that'll end up just being worse than, you know, 'cause you've written out branches off and to-- - Oh, it's just gonna be a shit show for a bit. - Right, right. Now you and I talked last time, you had just gotten back from Ukraine at the time and you were doing this report on these quote-unquote cartel mercenaries effectively that were fighting on the front lines in Ukraine and you were able to get inside there and see what's going on. You just put out the videos, though. - Yes. - Looks really good. - Thanks. - And there's a report that you uncovered that we didn't talk about where what was it? - The French authorities in New Zealand. - So Mexico and France alerted Ukraine that foreign fighters were being recruited by the cartels, mostly purely because they were learning FPV drone tactics in Ukraine. And right now, Ukraine is like the world's largest drone war front. - Oh, yeah, it's a playground for drones. - It is. - And so cartels had been upping their drone capacity for a while now and there was even a drone attack on the Attorney General's office into one a few months ago. And they have made it very clear that they have high level drone capacity, drone blockers, jammers, you name it, to the extent of the Mexican army. And so they obviously need to train these guys up. So one guy who was a former special forces, no, yeah, former special forces member from Mexico was caught operating in Ukraine to learn FPV drone tactics with fake identification. I think El Salvador based or something like that. He got there, he had really good skills. His alias was Aguila Siete, Eagle Seven. And that's a good alias, I must say. Eagle Seven, fire as fuck, like apple pie. - That was a horrible, but Eagle Seven. Anyways. - I miss El Harden arrow. I like that. (laughs) He was such a, he was fun. - Do you know why he's, how do they know? It's, how do they know? It's because he, it was known to be so violent killed so many people that he would make the mountains in Michalca and Flourish because so many dead bodies. - Oh, you did tell me that, yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, he was fun. Anyway. - Jesus. - It's a joke. - It's not funny. People are dying as whole. - I know, I know. - I'm taking him this in a low and next time. - Okay. - So basically, I went over there because I wanted to see, first of all, how these guys are trading up on drones. What are the checks and balances in place to ensure that foreign fighters are not actually going to work for the cartels. But the problem that I realized is that Ukraine needs men. And so they're really taking anyone. And sure, they're doing their security checks, but it's not to the extent of really being able to verify if, first of all, the guys coming in from mostly Colombia are already have some, agenda and connections with the cartel, or two, if they are a risk of being recruited by the cartel. There's one sort of popular guy right now who's fighting along the front lines in Michoacán or in Sinaloa. I don't remember now, but he's a Colombian citizen, fought as a foreign fighter in Ukraine and is now working with CG and G, and has all three flags on his, like the patches. He's very proud of it. Yes. You've seen it? No, I'm just happy he's proud of that. Yeah, a little climbing guy collecting his geopolitical tour guide literally. And so they're really amping this up and it's very simple to access this training in a way. It's also important to keep in mind that flying and using a drone to kill is a different level of killing because it's literally like playing a video game and the camera turns off right before the person explodes. So you're not feeling like you're killing someone. It's like playing GTA or something. First of all, so it's a mental thing. Second of all, because of Ukraine's active battlefield, it's literally the perfect training ground. It is the only place really anyone can go for six months and get trained up on this. Not to mention, it's quite simple. Some of these guys are learning how to fly FPV drones with bombs attached in like under 40 hours. That they can get good at it that fast. Yes. Especially young people, especially if you're young and you grew up playing video games. So it's very problematic and I've been seeing a lot of drone capacity in Mexico on the criminal side. Not them, particularly using it, but showing that if it comes to that, they're ready. And typically they're targeting not even rival cartels with drones. I mean, some of them, but a lot of it, it's ambush against law enforcement and army. That's promising. Yeah, that sounds horrible. Whoa, I didn't even really. Yeah. That's where I wonder if there will be some who's got a bigger dick drone, terrorist, threat, war stuff taken off the table. It's one thing to put a bunch of special forces guys on the ground and go fucking in Bade Mexico. And obviously they haven't done that. And that's probably got a lot of crazy downstream effects, but they start fucking around with some drones and shit. And now we have the capacity to be like, yeah, you're not going to do that. But and they they they're not just using some rinky dinky kamikaze drones. Yeah, that's true. They have multiple propellers. They're loaded with the bombs. The missile is ready to draw the bombs ready to drop from the. This is where I'm willing to say, though, I'll bet DARPA's got a bigger boat. What? I'll bet DARPA's got a bigger boat. Oh, yeah. It's not not to obviously that's some serious shit right there. I'm not saying it's not, but that could get interesting if they start doing that. But for the cartels using their drones to fight against Mexican authorities, very effective. Sure. Until maybe the United States steps in on that issue. For now, it sounds like you're perpetuating. No, I'm not. I'm looking at this strictly like black and white. Like what could the strategy be? You think the US would step in on that if it's just a matter of cartels attacking their own law enforcement in their country? If people are getting killed that are selfishly useful to the United States goals and efforts. Yeah. Yeah. And then if they now have an incentive to say to shine bomb, hey, we can help out with that. And shine bombs like no boots on the ground, right? I'm just playing. I'm not giving an opinion on this. I'm just playing out the quote unquote war game. They'd be playing here. I could see a scenario where that would happen. However, even though clutterishing bomb continuously denies like that no boots on the ground in Mexican sovereignty and bubble bath and she's being strong armed or like kept in the dark, the person that I believe who will probably is a top contender for Mexican presidency in the next election has a great relationship with the United States. Who's that? Oh, I'm going to see how to fudge the secretary of security. Yeah. It's quite obvious. And there's like the whole side up thing going on right now where they're selling like all this merch in Mexico of how to fudge with his shirt off and like a blanket of a shirt like what the fuck? They're putting them on calendars and shit too. I wonder who's behind that. Exactly. Yeah. Because all of a sudden he was just like the hottest guy in Mexico. Right. Some weird shit. Some weird shit. Have you gotten backlash at all for your report in Ukraine? Yes. Are you allowed to say from who? People that disagree with the reporting or think it's not happening that there actually isn't anyone over there who has these intentions and you got video of it. Literally. There's there's like an active case about it. SBU Ukrainian intelligence has opened up an investigation. It's been going on for a year. That's crazy. What are the stories you're working on right now? Well, that main secret one that I told you but besides that one. I can't think of anything else. That's the one you're zoned in on. I hope you get it. Me too. It's been fucking brutal. But just don't risk your life. And I've been doing all this other reporting in the meantime waiting for this to hit. And it's just like very frustrating because I know that that's a very important story. Yeah. Have you looked into the cartel like setting up operations in Africa? Oh my god. Yes. How did we talk about this? I've looked at this a little bit. Have you seen all the Mexican guys that are getting arrested in like Nigeria and South Africa? Yeah. And they have massive labs over there. What kind of labs? Myth. All maps. How old is that? And fentanyl. There is some fentanyl. That's nice. How old is that? I don't know. And I've been looking into this. It's certainly on my radar because I think it's really interesting. And what I do know is that there are like intelligence reports and law enforcement like trying to track this and crack down on it because I was looking into it. And it seems like a lot of what's happening is there are known operatives of the cartel that are flying over to Africa to like run these labs. But they're taking these very fragmented flight paths because they know that they are being tracked by law enforcement. And I don't know how long it's been going on. It's a fairly new situation. But I know that it's very effective for them right now. But there have been some crackdowns. There's been a few arrests. Why do you think they're targeting Nigeria and South Africa and particularly? Because of the ports. It's easy to move the precursors in and out of there. A lot of these labs in South Africa and Nigeria are very isolated. And so they can really operate completely under the radar. Laws aren't as strict. Money talks. And it's a great location if you're sending drugs into Europe and the rest. Great spot for businesses. They're basically everywhere except in Antarctica at this point. Maybe they're in Antarctica too. And not in Poland. Yeah. Don't bring my country into it. They're not in Poland at all. There's nothing bad in Poland. Not one time. There's no crime. No crime. It is a perfect country. But there's no cartel operations there. Who the fuck knows? You should find that out. No I don't because Poland is my safe place. That's all right. Listen, we all have our vices if you will. Maybe they got a cartel vice there. I don't know. I don't get pure spec. I don't know. I don't know. But one other thing you've been working on these stories as well about the cartels in Canada for a long time. And you were putting out some documentaries talking about them targeting like native land. Yeah. Up there. Why are they doing that? Because native land in Canada has, and I think in the US too, has their own police force. So it's not RCMP like national police and it's, yeah, it's the same thing, right? And typically a lot of that, the like native land police forces are understaffed. And a lot of these reserves are on, like, are literally right on the US Canada border. And so they can move product across and freely cross the border. No problem. So it's great for trafficking. And it's a lot great for trafficking. Great. Nice setup. Yeah. Hot tip. Yeah. And they're hiring a lot of native people like on the land to actually walk the product across. It's it's purely by a drive. They're creating jobs. Yeah. Okay. Look, they're trying to help the economy stimulate some things. I can understand that. And a lot of what's moving over there are fentanyl pills. Nice. Yeah. And that's now dragging out into Canada as well. Mm hmm. Oh, well, it's been like that for a while. Yeah, it's a lot of it, Montana border, it's actually like pretty much across the entire border. Yeah, and we don't think about that border that much. No, and it's a hard border to enforce, it's a massive border and mostly unprotected. When I went and did some reporting in Montana about how drugs are being crossed by land through a reserve actually, I interviewed a cop who also works closely with DEA to try and mitigate this problem. And he said that they will be notified of like, oh, someone suspicious is crossing through like it's it's not a official border crossing, obviously. But by the time they get to where that person was, they're long gone. It's just, I mean, it's needle and haystack with too much of this stuff. It shouldn't be, but it is on both borders and the complicity, you know, what a mess. Well, keep reporting on it, doing a great job just like seriously, I mean that like when it's when it gets to be really red hot for you, especially if it's something you can't do with security and stuff like that, there will be other stories. You're already doing great work, so I appreciate it. You know, just just keep your head up. Of course, of course, and we'll do it again. That's always all right. So everyone go check out. Maybe as if you didn't ask every time to come on. Anyway, everyone go check out. That's also untrue. That is absolutely true. That is not true. I got the text. That is literally not. But that said, I'm still going to be a good person. Everyone go check out cat's work. You have borderland dispatches where all the documentaries are going. We got your IG down there, your ex down there where you're live tweeting. Well, I shouldn't say lie. And I have my own YouTube channel now. And you got your own YouTube channel as well. We're going to see a lot of behind the scenes footage of reporting being in the field. So if you want to watch cat apparently almost get shot, that'll probably be on that channel as well. So you can go check that out. But in all seriousness, great having you as always. Thanks. And he invites me every time. That's not true. You hit me up and said, I have this meeting. I should come on. You called me four times before I did not call you four times. I have the receipts. Okay. You're calling to turn us a liar. I said, I want to fuck my credibility, right? That's all I said. All right. Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me, peace. Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, true Thank you.