CJ Carr vs. Julian Sayin: Talking Traits, NFL Comps, Ceilings, and More

our building the board 2027 quarterback class series continues today with two elite college quarterbacks from two blue blood programs in college football julian sayan from ohio state versus cj carr notre dame but where do they stack as nfl prospects is the question and guess what this is our last show with 300 plus days until the nfl draft 301 to be exact you good mensch i'm excited man me too tucker roll that thing man a couple uh business things to take care of a little housekeeping uh yeah a little housekeeping but not like the usual schedules coming up and you can find us on netflix we appreciate you watching on spotify and listening on apple and everywhere else you get your podcast not that stuff this episode is presented by ea sports college football 27 where you can engineer your team the way you want and if you want the full football experience try the mvp bundle i'm already getting pressure from the boys in this house we got you gotta get it we gotta get it right well i'm gonna cave you get college football 27 madden nfl 27 plus deluxe edition rewards in both games to help you go from campus legend to nfl superstar make your rise with the mvp bundle pre-order now conditions and restrictions apply cea.com slash games slash ea dash sports dash college dash football slash college dash football dash 27 slash game dash disclaimers for details pro move sneaking it in there thank you brendan sorsby it's been the summer of sorsby so you knew i was gonna have to say something today about sorsby let's get it out of the way quickly congratulations brendan you did the right thing we did a whole i mean i did a whole uh psa on take your medicine be accountable don't file a lawsuit against the nfl it's big tobacco it's big pharma it's not worth it i've talked to people in the league what they want to see is you a continuing to get right b get your mind and body right for the 2027 nfl draft c and probably most importantly and it was it was basically stated right for him to read by the nfl when they they made that press release right do some self-work actually be accountable take ownership for what you did and the next time they hear your voice it needs to be your voice not someone else representing your voice and you need to when we hear him come out and make a statement at some point to actually be um contrite show admission show apologize essentially apologize for what you've done show to and it's the big boy table now and the and the big boys sitting at the table want to see hey we've all made mistakes you're not the first this one is a mistake that is like and right or wrong we can have all the debates we want about some of the other charges and individuals who have to go through the legal system first and the nfl slaps on some kind of suspension like this in sport from pete rose and beyond this has been like the blacklist item right this is where you just you so so show that you've done some work show that there's a plan show that you understand what you've done and you've done some you've done and start preparing for the 2027 nfl draft one bit of news that i shared a little bit on on um x i i talked to some people i shoot i trucked i talked to drew fabianich the senior bowl executive director he's been invited brendan sorsby to play in the senior bowl all indications are he will play in the senior bowl so that's great yeah circle that date doesn't have to be the only all-star game you play in like i'm not saying that's the only one i'm saying it's the best one get ready for that make that your coming out party show to everyone i've gotten right i understand what i did my mind is right i've worked with a veteran quarterback i've put in the work mentally physically i'm ready to go so there's a clear path now for sorsby yeah and he's there as much to talk to teams as he is to show what he can do on the field i mean all the teams will be there gives him a great opportunity to sit down face to face with people and explain what happened so i view that as a positive a little sign of maturity and understand reading the room okay this episode is brought to you by michelob ultra good times mean competitions between you and your friends like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest winner gets an ultra because it's not just a superior like beer it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events superior is worth playing for visit michelob ultra.com slash superior access to enter enjoy responsibly copyright 2026 anheuser-busch in bed michelob ultra beer st louis missouri so the second second thing i wanted to get to which is far less um i don't know controversial it's not headline news but it has been all over social media and we did the our big manning uh passing academy recap i talked to you about john mature we had a good laugh about the picture that went viral and he's jacked up and are we worried a little bit because you know the previous quarterbacks who have looked like that like you know just just like getting ready for a weightlifting competition you know um bodybuilding i told you i thought he looked good after that very first throw that i saw and i was like oh no you know right i saw the same thing everyone saw mechanically he has worked to adjust his release point to what he's dealing with with the thumb injury and the love of the game is that he's got the right to do what he wants to do and he's got the right to do what he wants to do and he's got the right to do what he wants to do and lower body we always talked about it like the fact that he's able to throw that accurately and make some of the throws that he does with the lower body mechanics all over the place is remarkable he's he's he's i think i i it's so much fun it's a blast to watch yeah and and i i drew the correlation to scotty scheffler you know like don't try this at home it is not it's not like what's being taught at the coaching clinics and and all the quarterback camps that you go to right um but it works for him i i wasn't blind to his mechanics look i don't want to say entirely different but buttoned up he he looks like and i talked about like 1500 campers are all going to these quarterback camps and they all have that same lower body hip thrust short stride all that well he's adopted that the reason i was skeptical to make it a big thing is as we've seen from like my cj car report if we come out if i come out and say something like you know it is and i'm i'm adamant about something it tends to take on a life of its own i think that's wonderful and it's something i've earned and we've earned uh through 26 years now of scouting prospects to the nfl i was hesitant to get into all of that because i'm a golfer and i go to the driving range and i make all sorts of tweaks that i'm that i'm going to stick to when i get on the course and then all of a sudden you're in the fourth hole and pressure's building or you hit a bad shot and and you wind up going back reverting to previous mechanics right hundred percent materials mechanics look beautiful they look like everybody else's who's who's now buttoned up and is not throwing overhand and striding long like he is like but i want to see it in the game i saw him warming up in the side you know what i mean so that's fair yes he has worked diligently and it's important to state this he has worked diligently to um to make his his throwing delivery um more repeatable he has he's working to to get his lower body instead of jumping in the air and feet all over the place and slinging it i'm excited to see it i was hesitant to talk too much about it because i don't want to i don't want to make a point of emphasis where everyone's now clipping it off and throwing it out in social media but i am thrilled to see what he's done because it's exactly what you and i talked about when he went from washington state to oklahoma if if he got with someone and was able to get his foot his mechanics down and be more repeatable with that stroke he's he's just super talented man so is is there a level of excitement that i have and i know you share mensch uh with mature and what he can what he can do and i'm excited to see what he can do and i'm excited to see what he can do and offer this year with some of those adjusted mechanics absolutely i'm pumped to watch it and i'm sure everyone in norman norman oklahoma is too uh but i want to see it when the the bullets start flying so i get it just want one to get both those things out of there out there um big show today man i'm interested to see where this one goes me too you got cj car coming off a year They missed the college football playoff, didn't play in a bowl game, played 12 games. Both Carr and Julian Sayen, who played in, what was he? He was 12-2. He started 14 games. Both quarterbacks started every game last season. Both quarterbacks stayed healthy. Both quarterbacks showed a ton of promise as first-year starters. Both quarterbacks are redshirt sophomores. So, interestingly enough, while guys like Jeremiah Smith and other underclassmen are in the national list and the Blesto list, first time ever we've seen that many, like that high a number of top-tier underclassmen in the preseason scouting lists, if you will, national and Blesto, and talking to scouts. We've gotten to a point with NIL Transfer Portal where it's like throw it all out the window. Even the All-Star games now, it's like underclassmen are playing in the senior bowl, right? So, with that said, absent from those lists and some of the conversations, and I shared with you some of the texts I got from GMs and people in the league, there's no Carr in there. There's no Sayen in there. So, we're doing this with the, like, cautiously entering in, saying, we recognize they redshirted in 2024. They both started every game possible in 2025. This will be their redshirt sophomore year, their third year playing in college football. Second year starters. But they absolutely have the opportunity to return to school. In fact, they have two years remaining. And so, maybe that was the cutoff with the national and Blesto is if they have one year remaining after this and they've utilized their eligibility the first two years, then we'll include them. That's my assumption is that's what they did. So, Carr and Sayen could absolutely, with great seasons, be in the 2027 class. They also could go back to school for not one, but two more years. Right. Manning can go back for one. Some of these guys that we're talking about still have another year of eligibility. So, that's where we stand on all of it. And as we've started every one of these, this series, this is part three of our Building the Board 2027 quarterback class. I want to start with a simple question. Mensch, what was your biggest takeaway when you dove into the tape on Carr and Sayen? I'm going to go two. I'm going to do a twofer. I'm not supposed to do that, I know. I'm going to try to make it quick, though. Both, I love that both are accurate passers without being checked down Charlies. Both are in top 10 in yards per attempt last year. And I think they will, when they get a chance to strike deep, they will take advantage. But they're also accurate passers underneath. And I think that both, based on the progress they made, I will say Sayen, I think this is more so for Sayen, but both, the reason we are talking about them now, even though they're not, even though they have so much eligibility left, have the minds and the brains to make the jump to the NFL after this year. I like that. I like that. We'll get into the check down Charlies stuff a little bit more in detail, specifically when it comes to Sayen. My biggest takeaway is. Honestly, my biggest takeaway, and I have a different point, my biggest takeaway watching these, was how impressive they both were as first-year starters for those programs. Yes. If you want the truth serum. Now, I'll get to more of the scouting stuff in a second. But my truth serum is, I'm watching these guys, and I'm like, there's nothing about this that indicates fifth start or ninth start. You know what I mean? Because of how sharp they are mentally, how well they understand concepts, how well they understand their roles within their respective offenses. One quarterback in Sayen has this NFL receiver room. And it's a solid run game, but I think it'll be even more prevalent with Bo Jackson, you know, kind of really coming into his own later in the season. Year two, yeah. In year two, right? And Carr, in an offense that didn't necessarily have great weapons, and it certainly wasn't about the passing game first, but had two running backs that were first-round draft picks, the top two backs off the board, in Jeremiah Love and Jadarian Price. So to, like, the understanding of what his role was within that offense, and when it was important for him to be aggressive versus when it was important for him to do the smart thing because he knew he had two backs behind him that were absolute superstars, right? Yeah, two first-round backs. I mean, one of the top five pick. Yeah, I mean, this is crazy talent in the backfield. That was my first takeaway. The second one, the second one was specifically, I love Julian's saying, I loved a lot of the things I saw from him, but my biggest takeaway was, I do see a difference between the two. Yes. In fact, if I want to drill deeper, I honestly believe, after watching his tape in year one, I'm not saying he's there yet, I see a path where when C.J. Carr's career at Notre Dame is over, that he's the best Notre Dame quarterback that we've seen in our lifetime. Oh, man. I wish I knew you were going to go there. We're talking, did Joe Montana play in Notre Dame? In our lifetime. Okay. All right. All right. So, I mean, we were alive when Montana was playing for the Niners, right? But we had, I get what you're saying. I don't know that we were when he was at Notre Dame. I certainly wasn't watching Notre Dame football on Saturdays. Yeah, I don't think we were. We were pretty close. Yeah, you were not scouting Montana. I mean, there was Brady Quinn. There was Klaassen. There have been other guys. There's been a lot of success here and there. Yeah. He's the best quarterback Notre Dame's had during our lifetime. I don't feel like that's much of a limb. Like, I don't feel like, yeah, I got you. I think that might be true. Okay. I don't, but I also don't, I'm not blown away by all the former Notre Dame quarterbacks unless I'm missing somebody. I get it. I think. So, most importantly, I think he has a chance to be absolutely sensational. I think C.J. Carr is tracking towards being a legendary Notre Dame coach. I mean, I think C.J. Carr is tracking to become a legendary Notre Dame quarterback. I really do. Let's get into the weakness. What's he got to do better to get there? What's held him back from getting there right now? There were moments. The encouraging part about the weakness, the weaknesses I saw from C.J. Carr is they were predictable and understandable as a first-year starter. And I didn't see a ton of them. You saw a lot of this early. Yep. Saw a lot of this early. I thought the USC game, even though they won by, I think, 10 points, might have been his worst tape. Not a good game. I thought the Pitt tape was not, was underwhelming too. Okay. With you. Two interceptions in the Pitt game. The run gate. Like, every time I'd look up as I'm clicking through, my remote here, like, oh, it's 14 to three. It's 21. You know, like, they were just, Jeremiah Love had a legendary game. A day. He had a day. Yeah. Game day there, the whole deal. So, but, and I always look for trends. Like, is this a consistent problem or is this a one-off? The one trend I saw was there were moments where I felt like you could see a little bit of the inexperience. First time through as a starter. The USC game specifically, I saw trying to do too much. I mean, the red zone pick is a clear example. He's running around with a chicken, like a chicken with his head cut off. Flushed both ways, threw under duress, didn't see the undercutting defender intercepting the red zone. So, it's like multiple critical errors, right? And there were some misthrows in that game that I didn't see a ton of. I do think sometimes when he's on the roll, when things, on the move, right? When he's rolling out, things are getting a little hectic that that accuracy that I'm a real big fan of when things are precise, when he's going, and my gosh, we'll get to the strengths in a minute, but like, progressions, and then just drilling strikes when he's got a little time in the pocket. When things get a little hectic and he's rolling, rolling out, he makes some great throws, but he'll miss. Some really easy throws, right? So, you combine a couple of those points there, and I think it's all correctable, and I think, like I said, pretty much understandable for a first-year quarterback. Dealing with a lot, mind is spent. Remember, he wasn't, it was at Minchie. There was talk last camp that Minchie might be the starter. Like, he was fighting for the job. He's at Kentucky now, yeah. So, he's Lloyd Carr's grandson. He's been around ball his whole life. He understands it. I talked to you about what I saw at the camp and how advanced he is in terms of reading coverage, his concepts. Like, he's just kind of a coach playing that position, but he's still a first-year starter who redshirted in 2024 and winds up winning the job and is battling his ass off for his life for that starting job. Gets it and starts playing really, really well, but there's some moments where you're like, yeah, I can see why. a little bit for Notre Dame to A, name the starter, and I can see where the progress has to come so for me those are kind of the weaknesses that i saw in cars game what about you couple other things and i totally agree with everything you're saying most of this is fixable which is what's so exciting about him is that right it's and again let's remember miami and texas a and m out the gate thank you very much for that thank you for not at all dissimilar from from arch having to go to columbus yes facing matt patricia and all those first rounders yes so he deserves a ton of credit for the way he bounced back from that two other things i'll say he is absolutely no threat as a runner and the mobility is meh i think the mobility is meh so there's there's okay in the pocket i think he's okay in the pocket he's a three i gave him a three what'd you give him i gave him a two because i really i liked him in the pocket but i i i would have given a 2.5 yeah like i get it i get it i don't i don't see the two i gave him a three the other thing i want to see is i mean i when i went back and watched miami texas a and m for a guy who's making his first two starts the tape was better than i remembered him playing okay that being said who is this dude played really well against i mean he didn't play well against usc at times i thought the pit tape again i agree with you maybe usc tape worst of tape of all of them i didn't think he played that great against pit he didn't uh he didn't make enough plays in the end against those two teams texas a and m and miami and you want him to take in the next level and i want to see that i want to see him in a big game take over because i think he's capable i think this guy's really capable uh i want to see that the problem for them is the schedule's junk the schedule's not that great man i mean until miami late in the season he's gonna have to play well against miami late i think they get into the playoff i think there'll be a playoff team we'll see he's gonna have to carry more of this team because i don't think the running game will be as good i mean that just stands to reason So he's going to get maybe, you know, I don't know how many games to really show that he can go against top-flight competition. One other thing I'll mention that baffles me, because we're going to get into strengths here in a second, and I'll tell you why it baffles me. He's not as great throwing over the middle as I want him to be right now. He's way better outside the hashes. And I want to see more aggressiveness, more decisiveness, throwing over the middle. I agree with you that this kid is, you know, he's been around ball, and for a young player, he processes well. I would say that Sane is a far better processor. He is far more developed. I see some Dante Moore graduate stuff with Sane that we'll get into in a second that I don't see with Carr yet at this point. I think it's also important. I hear you. I think it's also important to, let's address the elephant in the room. There are two elephants in the room. The first one is we, and I want to do a better job of this. We talk in past tense as if we've already given out a grade and it's things over. Everything is a work in progress. We always say, I gave him, I gave him. We're giving him currently, and that can change. Yeah. But so people understand. Me too. So people understand our process. When we say gave, mention I are giving each other the assignment of you go watch tape on Saturday. And you go watch tape on car. I'll do the same. And as we fill out our reports so that we prepare ourselves for the show, we gave past tense of the last 72 hours on our report, but we're giving currently. And as we watch throughout the season, that everything is subject to change based on how they play. Obviously the other elephant in the room is, and I'm not discrediting saying for anything, and I'm not giving bonus points to car for anything. I'm not giving bonus points to car for anything. Car had a run game that saying wasn't blessed with saying through the ball a lot more, a lot more, and had weapons that are undeniable. Like I look at CJ car and it's, it's phasing had 640 receiving yards. He's back this year. Eli reared in the tight end who was drafted in the middle rounds. 618 receiving yards is the number two, two on the list of receiving yards for Notre Dame fields who wound up being. It's a third round pick. I think so. Big target. Awesome senior bowl, but only 531 receiving yards, not consistently productive. And his fourth leading receiver with 280 yards was Jeremiah love out of the backfield flip side, 1243 receiving yards for the best receiver that maybe we've seen since Calvin Johnson and Jeremiah Smith number two receiver was Carnell. Tate, who was the number four overall draft pick. He's pretty good. Yeah. Then you got in this who returns Smith Smith returns as the guy for the third straight year. In this returns, he had 684. So you get to the third receiver for Ohio state had more than the leading receiver and phase on with 640 in his head, 684. And then max Claire had 496, the tight end. It's not just scheme. It's not just the Notre Dame wanted to run the rock. talented backs i mean the when you watch the tape of these talented receivers it's i mean there is a and there's a guy and and like their their their play designs and the way they utilize them the coaching is wonderful and the but the talent is also at a different level now what's interesting this year is saying is going to still have an elite group because because in addition to in its returning yeah he loses tate and claire but in addition to in its returning you get chris henry junior and a couple other freshmen that that sound pretty i can't wait to see that kid so good in fact that two ohio state former five-star receivers transferred and they both transferred to notre dame coaching that talent and millen graham is supposed to be a really good one i hear this quincy porter cat six foot four is a dude and folks in columbus were like yeah we want graham so that's going to be interesting to see as now the shift happens for for cj carr of not game manager but like know your role understand what's what's standing yes and yeah this is your team schedule allows a runway for him to get confidence going and figure out the timing and all those things um but it's going to be a different look notre dame offense this year and i'm i'm here for it man i'm here i think they could put up numbers they haven't put up in a long long long time you know yeah um so so with all that said what can i tell you what what i love about cars game did we get to weaknesses on um on saying no you want to do sands weaknesses real quick let's do sayings weaknesses yeah are you worried that he's maybe tapped out that he's closer to his ceiling than yeah right so that's the thing i've heard the drew drew breeze comparison and i love that i love that comparison that's the absolute ceiling i mean that is the ceiling he's not a very mobile guy i don't think he has a very strong arm i think he's more mobile than he's shown but i got you okay we'll see what i saw i i i am giving him a three in mobility too um nothing special there uh so there's the arm strength i see some things where he's a great downfield player he's a great downfield player we'll get into why when we get into the strengths there are times he needs to put the ball on a rope he needs to drive the ball and i think he has a hard time doing that trajectory lead the receiver let him run on timing and touch all gets air yep yep yep that's how he does it i agree so when he when you see grambling and he's a split second late in the red zone getting the ball out on an outbreaking route the corner can recover jump in front of that ball and pick it off those are the things where he needs to be perfect with the way he processes and that's why he'll how does he fall out on time so well and he makes such good decisions and he's accurate that's how he'll get over it but it still exists he does not have a cannon for an arm he's more of a distributor of the football and quite frankly he's a perfect fit for what ohio state needs right because at at its best ohio state is run the ball awesome weapons um don't need to throw the ball a million times a game have a balance but we've got that are better than our dudes are better than your dudes and so when we do throw the ball we're gonna get chunks right yeah and and so and then also we're gonna throw some quick game stuff and and ryan day and and that coaching staff we're gonna have some some wrinkles and some different things um where our guys we're gonna get them on we're gonna hit you on a quick slant and and five turns to 40 you know um so so and i think he because he gets the ball out quickly and more importantly he he his eyes are in the right place and it's like you know and he'll throw it on a line i think he's short to intermediate accuracy is exceptional completed 77 percent of his throws it's the third who was the third best behind bo nicks and who was the other guy mac jones in in the history of college in fbs history as a freshman so first year starter right red shirt for sorry thank you yeah yeah but but it's still it's his first first year of full eligibility yeah so um but To answer your question, I don't – tapped seems really harsh, right? Yeah. He's tapped, man. Yeah, I don't like that either. I'm glad you're cleaning that up. Because I like him. Oh, I like him a lot. Yeah. And I think in the right – like, if Tua Tunga-Vailoa can have some success for – Oh, yeah. This guy's got more juice in his arm. And this guy, I think – if you get him in, like, a Mike McDaniel system, the way Tua was utilized during the couple few years where he was really putting up massive numbers and all that, this guy can be better than that. I believe that. Can he be Drew Brees? I'm not saying he can't be, but I agree. That's the ceiling. It's a hell of a ceiling, man. It's a hell of a ceiling. I love that 20-foot ceiling in my living room, right? Like, that's a great ceiling. But that's the track, and that's the high-end comp everyone in the league has for him. That's the high-end comp, right? Yep. And so, it's – where is he between Tua, who has had a lot of success – had a lot of success, and we'll see if he's able to ever return to that, and Drew Brees? Yeah. Yeah, so. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a Superior-like beer. It's also giving fans Superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit MichelobUltra.com slash SuperiorAccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer St. Louis, Missouri. Low energy? Unfocused? Foggy? You might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically-produced, proven electrolyte blend, and no artificial colors or flavors. Great-tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. 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His timing and touch on layer throws down the. the hash and outside the numbers is elite, elite, elite. I. He makes some throws that remind me, and I know I'm dating myself here, and. and whatever. Eli Manning used to make these throws at Ole Miss with these touch and timing throws that I see a lot of the same stuff with CJ Carr. And that is the number one thing that jumped out to me. And that's why. Why is he not more effective over the middle? I think it's just more about him being aggressive and confident. And sometimes when you throw over the middle, you're more likely to get into trouble and put the ball in harm's way. You know, I think about the. the. the pick he threw against Texas A&M where he tried to hit Jeremiah Love underneath as he's stepping up and the ball kind of sails on him. There was a four verticals. And it's a tough throw to make down the seam, but it's there. And not only is it there, it's a throw that he has the talent to make. And I want to see him make more of those throws over the middle. But he's. I mean, timing and touch on some of these layer throws is outrageous. Um. I don't. I don't. I don't disagree. And I think. Even. I was just watching this morning a little bit more. I'm trying to think what game. It was the pick game where I was a little underwhelmed. But I think it was the fields and the left. Like, down the left half. It was like a back shoulder. Placed it perfectly. I'm just excited to watch him in year two. Yeah. Because we talk about the rinse, refine, repeat. And listen, man. I love Garrett Nussmeier. And I loved Klubnick at the Manning Passing Academy last year. And I love them both because they came off of seasons where Nussmeier showed a lot. And I wasn't alone. I wasn't alone in it. Like, the highest graded player in the national list last year with a 6.5 grade was Garrett Nussmeier. Was Nuss. Yeah. And Klubnick had really high grades from a lot of teams, too. But so when everyone. And I see some of the. I don't read the comments, but then, like, people bring it to my attention. Well, yeah, you liked Klubnick and Nussmeier last year. Yeah, I did. I did. I thought Klubnick. Remember the run that Klubnick had late in the season? I thought it was going to be a stepping stone. Well, guess what? Everyone at Clemson failed to play to their potential last year. And so blame it on the coordinator. Blame it on Klubnick. Blame it on the protection. Blame it on whatever you want. The Jets still saw enough in him. After a really bad year of tape to take him in the fourth round. And Nussmeier was injured all year, man. I didn't. Like, I couldn't forecast that he would have an oblique injury, have to change his entire throwing motion. So. And LCK were on the ball again. So I'm not apologizing or making excuses, but when I talk about Carr, I'm. And the reason I get so excited is because I see this tape where every. Like, I see the grandstand. I see the son of a legendary head coach because I now can see just listening to him coach these young players how in tune he is with what you're trying to do as he's coaching the defensive side in a seven-on-seven drill. I see how his brain works. I hear him communicate. I look at him physically and I'm like, oh. And it's not like Mateer where he's gonna, like, the beach is that way. It's. The weight room's down the hall, yeah. Right. Right, right. It's like he's filling out. He looks like, well, proportioned. Like, this is the next evolution. And maybe we get one more next year before his 2027 season for the 2028 draft. Who knows what happens? But what I'm saying is I'm seeing the areas you want to see the progress, the areas you want to be strengths. I'm seeing that with Carr. So I'm excited. Does it mean he's gonna be the first overall draft pick in the 20. No, probably not. But he could be a top-ten pick. And honestly, we'll get to the grades in a little bit. Could be the second. Could be the first. Could be the second. Could be the third in a loaded quarterback class if he has the year that I expect him to have. Now, I can't control how he plays or how his receivers play or how the protection is or his durability or any of those things. But I promise you this. I've been around this game long enough to know, okay, that guy looks different. There's a confidence level. There's a him. There's a way he carries himself. There's an understanding of the game. There's these mechanics as I'm watching him standing four feet away, watching him warm up and throw, like the repetitiveness, watching him throw out different drills. He has some. When you watch Arch Manning and C.J. Carr and Julian Sane and Mateer and Bailey and the Mississippi State kid and Malik Washington from Maryland and Fafida and all these guys, doing the same drills, throwing to the same golf cart or moving still target, moving target, whatever. And you watch them with Eli and Peyton in different passing sessions, right? And one guy stands out as a little different because of all those things I said. There's a reason. Does it mean he's going to have the best season in Notre Dame history and be the first overall pick? No. He's not ruling anything out with this cat. I think he's got a chance to be pretty special. Does he have the physical tools of Lenore Sellers? No. No. Does he have the upside of even Brendan Sorsby, mired in all of the other nonsense? No. But he's in a different stratosphere in terms of where he is as a pro prospect right now after 12 starts. And that for an evaluator is exciting, man. Yeah. I hate to compliment you, but I'm going to. I'm going to go ahead and do this because I think people should understand that we beat ourselves up when we make mistakes. Like, whoever wants to come out online and be like, oh, McShay said this. I can guarantee you Todd was back saying, well, why. What went wrong here? How can I change? How can I be better? There is a real danger of taking that and learning from that and then letting it over-impact or impact too much the next cycle and saying, well, I'm not going to come out that strong for CJ Carr because I came out that strong for someone else last year. That's just as dangerous to me. That's bad. Shoot or shoot. Shoot or shoot, man. Yeah, don't fall for the, like, oh, well, this happened last year, so I'm not going to do it this year. At the same time, it's not like Todd didn't take into account what did happen last year. Both of those things can be true. So I hate to compliment you, but I get it. And I think it's the right move. Like, you stick to your guns and you trust what you know at this point. Yeah. What about saying strengths for you? Here's a big one. especially on some these like smash and stick concepts these two-man routes his ability to read corners and defensive backs and get the ball out quickly and on time and accurately is his i mean that's his superpower he i don't understand i have no idea how this kid is that young or that inexperienced and he's making these reads and running offense this offense at such a high level that to me is just so cool and so exciting about him and then the but the thing that to add on top of that though is it's not check down charlie to me i'm wondering what you're going to say about that because i think when he gets an opportunity to go vertical he takes advantage and he is quick about it he is decisive about it and that's why it works because the ball comes out quickly and he hits guys in stride because he has that touch i thought he did and when he did he did he did he was pretty awesome and yeah there's some more like line like throw it on a rope like but uh the penn state game if you want to see him at his best throwing the ball vertically the penn state games are really good good tape to watch um there were three or four really good lead receivers down the field uh one of them was was double coverage but as i think it might have been tate um got got behind the defender and he let it rip and literally from where when he threw it where tate was probably 30 yards down the field that he let him and in stride perfect ball and there were a few of those in that game um i want to see more man and and and i get it i i more of him down the field yeah being aggressive there were there were just jotting down notes going up through the entire season there were a i don't want to say laundry list but more than five fewer than 10 maybe but well about a throw about a time a game where i jotted down a note and i probably could have jotted jotted down more where i'm like all right safe smart got it take the change don't go broke and you know making a profit all the stuff that you hear from coaches however i i get jeremiah smith i get carnell tate now i'm gonna have chris interesting i thought the other i thought there were times where he just took advantage of those guys and it wasn't the right look there was a couple times where he's like two high looks he's like my guy's better than your guy he's gonna run by that and he still pulled the trigger that's interesting you see it the other way but i don't view it and i just i didn't even want to bring it up as a weakness i don't view it as a weakness i view it as a young man being like i'm a first year starter we're loaded with talent yeah loaded with talent on this side of the ball we're loaded with talent on that side of the ball like i am holding i have the keys to this car i have put it in the ignition i have turned it over and we are going down the road and i have got so much valuable um luggage in this vehicle my first and foremost i can't fuck this thing up by driving it off the road and crashing into something because if i can get it from a to b safely like you know it's it's a treasure trove of what we have here so i i felt that mindset at times um i thought there were i thought there were some times like i i broke down one of them it was an example the the interception against indiana it was early in the game first quarter i believe um just a quarter count late over the middle not just a quarter count yep right not because he wasn't smart enough to see it but i felt like it was a little bit of like do i want to fit it in and by the time you decide yeah i'm going to try to fit it in too late and he doesn't have an elite arm and i don't even know if an elite arm there i don't when i when i see him throw short intermediate there's very rarely a time where i'm like well if he had a little bit more a little more energy at the end he would he would have been fine here it's not that um i just there there's still a first year starter hesitancy to his game at times interesting i saw that more with car than with saying okay so i'm excited for both of these guys to see what is the rinse refine repeat version look because as part of that process is i've laid out for for folks because i've been in quarterback meetings like i've had the opportunity to sit in ohio state's quarterback meetings when urban was there i bet like i i know kind of what goes on and all the the things that are being coached up and i also know the process in the off season right and and that is like you need to work on it's it's a self-scouting and he's going back and watching all these throws with his coaching staff figuring out okay what were our weaknesses here right where were we predictable what are the throws i can and i'm going to beat myself up on these 25 throws from the season there were critical errors or decisions or whatever right then the next part is okay how do i then apply what i've learned in the film room to improving mentally right and improving mechanically and consistency wise there's also the part of i want to get physically stronger i want to work on my quickness of my feet all those sorts of things but then there's this element too where these defensive coordinators are getting paid over a million dollars some of them two three million dollars for a reason they're pretty smart man they they live in this home they're gonna have a plan and they're not stupid because they've seen a young quarterback watch their own tape and come back and make some adjustments so now they want to be a step ahead in that chess match right right so is he prepared so like there's so much to gleam from a second year starter in fact that's why the parcels rule is there it's why we see with jayden after a couple years at arizona state it's why we see bo nicks second year at oregon after a couple years of auburn it's why we've seen it with with um with cam ward from incarnate word to washington state to miami it's that like third year and that that's why these both of these guys are one of the two could wind up in that 2028 class that third year becomes so invaluable because now it's like all right the first year i was learning on the fly second year i fixed all of my problems but maybe i wasn't able i wasn't mature enough yet hadn't had enough wars on under my belt if you will to to um anticipate what the counter moves in this chess match would be right so when mendoza comes back after his second basically second year of playing starting at cal goes to indiana has a coach who's brilliant at helping him both both signetti and mike shanahan the offensive coordinator and the offensive coordinator and the offensive coordinator they are doing the preparing showing him the system and the product we saw from mendoza last year especially late in the season and in big moments was vastly different than that of cal which was really good tape but had floss so i'm excited to see what year two is for both of these cats man but there may be a year three if year two doesn't go perfectly as planned right yeah one thing we've been doing in this series is and i don't know and i think i just a little bit covered it and i think we've covered a little but but when you watch car versus saying does one of them like do one of their games translate to the nfl for you a little bit better no i think they both do i mean that's that was my point in the beginning i think they do it a little bit differently uh but they both these are guys that i mean i think if you're an nfl play caller you can work with both of these guys and you're excited about getting either one of them in your building if you see something different let me know but these are guys i think i wouldn't say their games translate any differently because i think they're both really really high-end intelligent uh football understanding quarterbacks like almost weirdly good for for their their age and lack of experience right uh i would say the traits of car translate a little bit better i think i think he has better traits there's no question yeah he has better traits so that opens up more possibilities less scheme driven a little bit less and i don't want to undersell saying i really don't he's six one he he doesn't have the biggest arm it's not like car with two more inches and a little bit more energy on the ball like he can play in anything like neither of them are are josh allen neither of them are are lamar neither of them are mahomes neither of them are are sellers swordsby you know in some some ways arch like but but these are two guys that are far more advanced than arch manning as pastors far more advanced as pastors than sellers or swordsby in fact i i would say if you asked me to rank like as pure pastors and when i say pure pastors i mean the the mental makeup in terms of processing progressions speed of which they're able to decipher information and then the accuracy and advancement as as passers i'd say the three in this class at least so far of the quarterbacks we've gone through are dante car and saying i would agree i think the gap i don't i do not loop sellers in with arch and and swordsby that being said both of those things can be true i do think that the top three are the top three that you just mentioned in more car and saying i think sellers is more developed i'm that's a hill i'm ready to die on but that doesn't mean he's as he's in the same category as the three you mentioned. I think both of those things can be true. So it leads us to our final point, and I'm going through my desk that apparently someone's been messing with. Oh, yeah, I paid Tate to go down there and move things around. Okay, I'm going to find it. I've been jotting down our notes and our grades, right? All right, well, you're doing this. Can I just tell you that I have a developing idea that I think we should do as a show? Just buy a second here. I think we should do, after we do our NFL draft rankings for the quarterbacks, we should do a college rankings for the quarterback and see if they're different. Like, who do you want this year? Who's the quarterback you want this year? We can get us some of the guys who aren't draft eligible yet. I think that might be a fun exercise. So let's go through it. We've done so far, this is our third part of our series. The first series was Dante versus Arch. You were a 94. I was a 93 on Dante, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Arch, we both were 91, even though we kind of came in from different directions. We landed the plane at the same spot. Am I correct on that? Yes, yeah. Okay, Arch. No, oh, I'm sorry. I think it was, it's either 90 or 91. I don't have it in front of me. All right, so we'll call it 91. I think it's 91. Yeah, I think it is 91. Yeah, I thought it was 91. Then we had Sellers. I gave Sellers a 91, but would honestly at this point rank him, a spot ahead of Arch. You gave him a 92 or 93? 93. Sellers. And then Sorsby, I don't think we actually said it on the show because I went back and lifted the notes. What grade would you give Sorsby? Throw out all the other stuff. Mm-hmm. Sorsby as a football prospect, quarterback prospect, what grade would you give Sorsby? 89. I'm actually cool with that. I could argue 90 on potential, but the problem with betting on potential, oh, geez. The problem with anticipating potential is he doesn't have the potential this year to showcase and develop those skills on the football field, right? Right. So I'm cool with an 89. So that would give our rankings before we come into this. And I'm glad we're doing this on air. I actually think it's fun. I think if you're following at home, it gives you a clear picture. We both have Dante as the number one quarterback prospect, Sellers right behind him. Arch then would be third, and Sorsby would be fourth of the four we've graded so far. It's important to lay that out because now I want to ask you where we're doing. We're building the board here. Building the board together is one big happy summer family, right? Yeah. So let's start with this. Higher grade. Don't tell me the grade. Higher grade on Carr or Sayan? Higher grade on Carr. Okay, agreed. Would you slot Carr in ahead of Arch? I know you wouldn't have had a seller, so I'm not going to waste anyone's time. Would you, assuming on Mench's board, it's Donovan, Dante, Sellers, who's next? Yeah. Is Carr ahead of Arch on the rank? Does he have a higher grade or similar or identical grade, or is he ranked below? It would be more Sellers-Carr for me. So he's my top three right now. Same. I have Arch fourth. Can I mention my grade now real quickly on Carr? Please. I have him. I have him as the same grade as Arch, but ranked ahead of him. And it's a tough one because he's a far better, he's a far more polished passer at this point, but I just, Arch's talent is just too much to ignore. Totally agree. So it's an interesting battle there of, you're getting now into that potential argument. I think Arch is going to have a better year, and if he does, then he'll move. It's this push and pull of where you put these guys. Oh, I can see Arch coming out, and there's a world in which. Yeah. And I didn't get to see enough of him. He didn't do all that much at the Manning Passing Academy for a lot of reasons I think I outlined, and some of it's speculative, but he's always working with Eli, and not always. I don't want to oversell it. He has the opportunity to work with his uncles, and this is an opportunity for other guys to be able to do so, and there's a lot of things pulling at him, and NFL films are there. So to spotlight the Manning family and 30 years of the Manning Passing Academy and all that stuff. There's a world in which he comes out this year and is more efficient as a passer, builds on what we saw the second half of last season, and I can see Arch pushing to be the number one overall pick. I can't, after studying his tape versus some of these other quarterbacks' tape, as a passer, say he's there yet. But I see a clear path for Arch. Carr, interestingly enough, but they were both first-year starters. Carr's more advanced, but isn't as big, isn't as mobile. But just the understanding of and the precision as a passer is more advanced than Arch, so I would put him just a tick ahead of Arch. But those would be my top four. I agree. Now to Sayen. I really thought, by the way, I really thought you were going to piss me off and put Carr ahead of Sellers. I thought you were going to do that. Did you think about it? I thought about it, but he's not there yet. I got to be honest. And Sellers still hasn't. I view Sellers more as he's still developing consistency with the passing. I think Sellers' biggest thing is he's got to take heat off the fastball. He's got to show more touch short to intermediate on some of those throws. He misses high and misses hot too much. But he does. And after our conversation, I'm not going to lie to you, I went back and I watched more Sellers again through the same vein. And I think I emphasized the negative more than the positive. There are some precision throws, timing throws, anticipation throws that he makes on a line, tight windows, leading receivers to the sideline and everywhere else that are pretty damn special. Yeah. I'm not going to tell you. So as an NFL coordinator, I can bottle that up and we can make that more of the norm. So yeah, I thought about it, but I would be lying. I would be lying because Carr's gifted and Carr's wicked, wicked smart, you know? But Sellers is more gifted. Sellers is far more polished as a passer than Sworsby and more polished as a passer. Clearly more polished as a passer than Arch. So, and what Carr can't do is what Sellers does arguably best is extend, run, threaten. He forces you to cover every inch of that football field. Yeah. The 53 wide and the 100 long. Like he just forces you because that arm, the mobility, he just does. So I think it's a fair, honestly, I like the rankings. I like Dante one because he's the best passer in this class. Yes. And I expect more consistency even out of him. I like Sellers too. I'm pumped to see him. I'm pumped to see him in a new system this year. I like Carr three. I'm pumped to see him with maybe some better weapons and all the emphasis on him. I like Arch four with the upside to climb as high as he wants to climb based on the improvements he's made in the off season. Also understanding he did undergo foot surgery and like it hasn't been the easiest off season, but he looks ready and I have nothing but high hopes for him. And, but also knowing he, he can be a good player. He can be back for 2027 too. And there's a little bit of talk that he might be. I'm just being honest with you. I don't, I don't like sharing it. Like there's, let's just file that away. More discussion about that than I anticipated considering there was a lot of discussion last year, the Manning Passing Academy about he is under a microscope and it is overwhelming. And like having to spend another year in Austin, Texas, as wonderful as the people are and all that, that wouldn't matter what city or town it is. There's just so much spotlight on this one individual for obvious reasons. But now there's more like, I don't know, like, yeah, he's probably going to be in the 27 class, but have it like so far away from making that decision and so open to, depending on circumstances, being back in Austin for 2027. So that part's fascinating too. Yeah. Far be it for me to tell you how to do your job, but you missed the real opportunity to rage bait me and get the blood pressure up and maybe, and maybe get some good podcast material there by at least pretending that you were going to do it. I'm surprised you didn't try to. I thought about it. Try to like goad me a little bit and then be like, oh yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, you're right. So where do we have Sayan now? I'm not a great podcaster. I just. That's not what I was saying. No, I'm joking. What was, where do you got Sayan? Sayan's tough because Sorsby has better traits. But saying more polished i've got an 89 on saying right now so it's the same grade as we kind of thinking source me i'll be honest i gave him a 90 because i wanted to kind of make the make the make it clear that i have him ahead of source but it felt kind of dirty i you know what i'm gonna just be honest about i think 89 is a better grade i get i'm giving him an 89 sorry i'm so sorry tucker and dan i'm giving him an 89 uh and i'm right there but i have him ahead of source b and that's another great argument of potential versus it versus what you know like the ceiling here i mean uh the floor here and i just i think the floor is good enough for saying to take him ahead of source b at this point so i i like this list so far man i really do i like this list we're no one is disappointing i haven't watched one person that's a good point what are we doing here it's a good point we're we're six quarterbacks in with dante is the highest grade sellers at two cj car at three arch at four saying at five source be at six and we still have a bunch of dudes to go we got sam levitt who's transferring from arizona state to to lane kiffin land in lsu we've got um trinidad chambliss who's a lot of varying opinions on him man some people kind of like day two you know he's a good player some are like no this is a first round guy we've got um we've got nico yamaliava we've got damon williams who is you want to talk about polarizing some of the grades and some of the talk about damon williams that i don't see yet and i know you don't see yet but we're going to dive into him we've got matier i know i'm missing darian mensa the transfer from duke to miami so we got i'm actually more excited about this group in a way because if this group is as good as i think that they can be now this is why that this quarterback class is truly historic because already we've got six guys but now when you get into this kind of i don't want to say second tier because i don't think that's accurate but when you're getting into the depth of it now if these guys keep showing up this is what's going to make potentially make this class different mayava jayden mayava who's been working diligently do you say mess to make her too mess to make her so we've got a bunch of names left and just four parts of the series left to do it we'll figure it out figure out a way to squeeze it in um so so that we have to look forward to but i i will say this this is why we do it because everyone in the world it's like arch arch and dante one two as we'll see about sellers that frustrating year well cj car and say but like the fact that we're we're now three parts in and we've got arch is the fourth quarterback prospect currently with all the upside in the world and sellers is the number two quarterback prospect just behind dante and cj car ahead of arch like that's why we do it and i hope people are enjoying it uh we are back on next monday yeah monday next next monday enjoy the weekend hope you guys have a good time enjoy the weekend and and i and we had a schedule but i'm starting to feel like we might have to do do three quarterbacks per show or something we'll figure it out but i just i listed all the names of the quarterbacks we're going to get to in some way shape or form we're excited to share it and then we'll wrap it all up in part seven and share the the final board and go through some different things and who knows maybe we'll tag on a bonus episode for mentions to do the top 10 quarterbacks in college football um till monday have a great weekend hey happy fourth man america's happy fourth yeah america's 250 bro five stars for you thanks man must be 21 plus and present in select states for kansas in affiliation with kansas star casino or 18 plus and present in dc kentucky or wyoming gambling problem call 1-800 gambler or 1-800 my reset call 1-888-789-7777 or visit cc pg.org slash chat in connecticut or visit md gambling help.org in maryland hope is here visit gambling helpline 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