Circularidad - Economía Circular como estrategia de descarbonización

[Music] My best environmental training with our TV program, Specialist Ambientals, with virtual and effective accessories. [Music] Hello, friends. A new episode of the podcast "Circularity of the Center of Guatemalteco" of production of Malimpia, very, very, very, very excited to be able to generate new material with colleagues, friends and friends. We know that we have the pleasure of working together in Pro del Ambiental. And this recording, as I always say, is very special. Because we value, we value a lot that opening of the people who participate in the podcast to share experiences and information with the animal of nutrients, knowledge that we are all motivated to communicate with that perspective more and more environmental. And well, today we are in the CED in the central offices of Enel Green Power, a company that we already have a good time to work together in Guatemalteco. And we are precisely excited because our invite is also very special for us. For us, it is very important for all the work you do and that you do in Pro del Ambiental as always. Thank you. And that good to have it in the podcast. So friends, we are with "Circularity of the Center of Guatemalteco" of sustainability in the ex. And well, you will have your time to be able to give the details of what you bring and what you work in the company. And today we are going to be talking a little about the decarbonization of how Enel has evolved and that story is so interesting that they have in common the context of the circular economy. As a group, such as some themes are very focused on what is in Guatemalteco. But it is always very interesting. We really like to know you. Well, welcome. This is your house. Although we are in your house. It is always welcome. It is also your house. But yes, very happy to be able to mix with you and that you open the doors to be able to tell things, positive things from a lot of work, from a lot of responsibility. First I invite you to give us an initial presentation of greetings to the audience of the podcast that we are going to tell you about Enel and what are their ideas, what is their business model, of course. And I would also like to tell you that we are also going to share a little about decarbonization, about how the role of the company has and how they have evolved. Thank you very much Luis. I am always very excited to talk to our friends from the center of Guatemalteco in the near future. And because I am happy to have him here and our house. And to be able to share all these experiences that I am passionate about. Thank you very much for the opportunity to be able to tell our story in this space and to be able to share this information in the hope that you can inspire others, that you can help others. And I always do it with humility to be very clear that we have much more to learn and much more to do. But also with the pride of seeing what the group has achieved in it and what is pushing the global level and in the region. Yes, definitely, I think we have already commented on a large number. It is important that there are spaces for the companies to tell what they do. Totally. In a very transparent way, very objective and what I have seen a lot of NLS that are very responsible with what they speak. And that is why we see it important that you participate in this space because the transparency is a relevant factor of NLS. That is something we see. And we do not say that it is an experience. As we have already talked about it. But what is NLS in my power that we are going to comment on? Well, briefly, in what context is the company currently? Yes, with a lot of use, Luis. I think I have to start by saying that I have my dream job. I have my dream job. I am very lucky. NLS is a company of energy. It is one of the largest energy operators in the world. The world is present in more than 30 countries with generation operations, distribution, commercialization of energy and other services related to energy. So it connects a lot with me, my personal vision of being part of the solution and not the problem to this issue of energy, to a sustainable and not contaminant, to the planet. And also because I am in charge of more sustainable topics for Colombia in America, with certain lines of business. So I am living the dream. Well, it always moves us to talk with people in that context. Positive, I mean, they feel very attached to a very natural mix. Right, of course, with what they do day by day, from the professional perspective. And what does your company work? How long has NLS been? Wow, it has been a really weird opening, but this year I have been able to fulfill the 10 years. Oh, what a good one. That would never have happened to me. I have already bought the 10 years of that. Well, I bought the new one in November and it has already been closed. Yes. And I am very happy. I really feel like the stars have aligned. And I managed the opportunity to enter part of this great team. And I can say with all the sincerity that I woke up in the morning with a so powerful conviction that we are doing important things, valuable things for Guatemala, for the world. And that is where I must be. Here in the topic of renewable energy. And in particular, the theme is sustainability. That is what I see as an contribution to this team in the company. The theme of sustainable development. The creation of shared value and circular economy in conjunction with our communities and with other relevant stakeholders. So that's my whole theme that I have to talk about. I connect, I mean, I need an interaction. I need to understand the people who surround us with what we operate and be able to feel that we are actually creating value. From sustainability, we have like a preferential, like a front-row seat to be able to see this value that is generating. When I did a few days ago, I had a meeting with a person. They congratulated me on the support of talking to a young person who was a little indecisive in what was going on in the university. They told me that sometimes I was going to get some extra points. But I loved it. And I felt delighted that they told me that you can help me to comment because you are already in this environmental issue that moves you. And why do I tell you this? Why do I tell you this? Because what you say is the opportunity to link yourself with the people. So, I am from the thought that Andrew said to him. I mean, Andrew said that you have to consider a job if you inspire yourself to continue to become an environmentalist. You have to consider if it's a person who moves you into human contact. That is to say, the vinculate with people with the focus of helping to bring and make them grow. I have not known almost the majority of people who are related to environmental issues. Not precisely if they are environmental engineers. No, people who work in the subject of sustainability. I could say that almost 95% have a lot of that factor. I mean, human, very human, the environment is a very social area. It has a very social aspect. Of course, all the careers and all the places are linked to human relations. Of course, it's obvious. But an environmentalist can say that with the focus in which we work, of course. I mean, as a private sector, it makes a lot of that. It's a commitment and how we contribute, how we do that. And that's a factor that I've seen a lot in the environmental profession. Yes, it's that I think that the interest for the planet is born from the interest of people. Exactly, yes. We are trying to take care of our environment because we are trying to be good for people. Yes. What do we avoid now and the future future? Yes, that's very interesting. And for me, if it's a difference between those who work in the environment, very close to the context of nature, which is good. That's a very important matter, but I'm more compatible with those who say, what you said, the effect on the planet, but on the other hand, of the people and the most important factor are the people. There are some colleagues who don't put people there. They connect. No, and that's fine. Some reasons will have, and their function also has an impact. But I'm more attached to the other. And even though we talk about linkedness. So what role does paper have in the company? How do you think that linked to the environmental issue? We know that you mentioned it. It's a company that is very focused on energy, that energy generation, that brings it to society. And to other actors, of course, of our society. In the energy issue, in a sustainable way, friendly with the environment. But how do you see paper that has the company? And not only does paper have energy, but where does it go? Or what do they look for? Well, Luis. From the energy sector, you understand the great responsibility and the important role that has in these environmental issues, in terms of decarbonization, transition, energy. In terms of energy, of reduction of emissions in general, it's not the value chain, in terms of infrastructure, the world level. So, having that key position in all these issues, we want to do it responsibly, in a way that we generate the necessary impact to change things. To change things. So, we are not a company that seeks to generate energy for business, that is, if you are in our mission, I love sharing this. I like it a lot. The vision of NL is to be the most important energy company in the world. Or more lucrative in the world. The vision of NL is to be able to attend the great challenges of the world through the energy. To improve these great challenges that we are facing through the energy. It seems to me a very noble mission. Obviously, it is a company that seeks to be profitable and to complicate the responsibility of the investors. But we are going beyond that. So, in terms of the role, it is very serious. And since many years ago, it has been thinking about it. Well, yes, and we are real. We are generating income. For those investors who are good, but we would have to be doing it to be able to fulfill this very important role that we have in these environmental issues and that is carbonisation. So, I feel that as you said, it is very responsible in that sense. Yes, that is why it was important that they were here. Because that message is critical, that is, to give it to know it. I think that the perspective of the sector of the company is directed to that, in my opinion, that if it is relevant with the context of obtaining the goals of profitability, that is like that. But when you start listening to each time, each time more to companies. And not precisely even big companies, because I do not know, in the context of which, I think that many people expect that it will come mainly from big companies. But in my experience, these topics are coming out not only there, and I think that too. But I think that is an effect of the big ones, towards their heads. The big companies, with great operations, also have that mix of great value. How do I inject these topics with whom I relate to? But that implies that it starts to be responsible. So, that is what we have noticed from you. As we have also talked about after graduation, as you have done a long time ago, we have seen the issue of circular economy, circularity. That is something that I have found to think that there has been growing for us for three years, very intense here in Guatemala. But if we have seen that it is easy to do for eight years, that has already come. And so we have noticed that for those who are in the environmental issue, we have also seen it very well. For the rest of people who do not, as such, still not so much. But today, if we go back to see local events here in Guatemala, in the context of empresarial and environmental economy, circularity is the point. So, this issue for you, because it is so important, that in conversations with you, they say, "Well, yesterday we had an event and Russia, the reign, mentioned it." Any person speaks about circularity, because it is important. The circular economy is in the hearts of everything we do. If we recognize that circular economy is not because it is in Madrid, or because everything is always in the business. So, we have to do this, right? We have always started to adopt a focus in circular economy since many years ago, as we saw it, and we said, "This is it." There is that. We have to pay attention to this, we have to react to this. And it is an integral part, it is a key part of all our strategy. This is an ability. Okay. The strategy of this is an ability in it. It is a strategy that only creates awareness of the community, and creates the reputation of a business strategy. It is in the core of what we do from business strategy. So, what we look for is that all our products and services and our operations are completely sustainable. And even from there, our ambition is taken. Zero. So, before that, I think it is super interesting, this new position has taken place here. Before our position was, we generated missions, but we started, right? We want to get to net zero, of course, to reduce it to the minimum. But the ones that come out start, right? Now it is another, it is the net zero in philosophy, right? And now it has a zero ambition in philosophy. What is more, how is ambition zero? It is, first of all, the "peki reza empata", right? As you can see, it is a reality, right? Yes, exactly. So, what is said in the "les", we have to fight, we do not fight. We generate missions that we think we have to compensate. We generate much more. And then what happens? We have, of course, been scientifically proven, by various authorities of the world, such as the Elan MacArthur Foundation, the Mobile World Resource Institute, which is the circular economy, which was in the development of the decarbonization methods for a 45%. And the other 55% is achieved through energy. So, that is, in recognition of the super key role that has to impulsify energy, renewable, and on the other hand, to impulsify the circular economy for decarbonization. So, there is where the circular economy becomes a must and not a nice job. So, it becomes a part of the business. And that makes me passionate to decarbonize. I always have the way to decarbonize that circular economy is not because it is a topic that is very difficult to implement, but it goes beyond that. Contributes to the business. Contributes to the rentability of the company. A circular economy, a program of circular economy, that is well-developed, and that is to reduce the cost of decarbonization. So, that is, it is good that you come out and take pictures. That is, it is necessary for you to keep it in mind. Exactly, and it is a little difficult for me to decarbonize. Most of that helps you to have a more profitable operation. Because you can acquire raw materials, recycled, to better prices, to help you reduce costs, and also to reduce costs as much as the responsible disposition of these materials. And it can be reinserted within your productive process. So, now, thanks to the costs, and if you, in some way, achieve, commercialize the buy products, the materials that come out of your productive process that you can't reinsert. I'm sure that is a waste. That is materials, because it is more or less a word. We don't talk about waste. It is materials that are not as waste. So, those materials that you don't tell you can serve another. As they say, the waste is not the waste. Of course. So, that is what we are looking for with the circular economy in turn of a whole part of the business model. If we try to do it from the center to general information, it is something that we have been taking more seriously. Because there is no need for information. Without information, I think we can't take the best decisions. Of course, I think that sometimes the hearts are more and less. But in the interior sector, I think the base in America is relevant. Yes. So, we have done a survey. For example, I don't want to sound arrogant. But, for example, the issue of clean production. So, the issue of clean production was basically more technical and concrete. The central, ugly. It was the only institution in that time that I was talking about clean production. And we did a survey that I think is very soon going to launch this year. One of the questions is, what do you know about clean production? And then we asked another question, what do you know about the circular economy? And as we said, clean production can take 25 years in more and more or less. And there is still a 20% of people who say that there is not a lot of clean production. After 25 years. Well, hopefully it will not be our answer. The issue is that even so, but if there is, if the graph is positive, in a sense that it tends to be the majority, it feels like two or seven. It thinks and thinks that if it comes out. But when we see the circular economy, it is the same as the best of clean production. So, that's positive. And I think the message is there because I want to comment on this conversation. Because I believe that the issues are changing very quickly. So, that has its pros and cons. Its cons, I believe, is a circular economy, what was mentioned. It would be very difficult to recycle. What is good? No, I don't want to recycle. We have to keep pushing these practices. No, but the concept will be more there. It is to generate a transformation, our business model, and the inspirations will be more linked to the cycles of the materials. I mean, if I take some nature, how, in some way, the most efficient way possible, but how to return it. Yes, yes. If we see it totally, we see it in focus, in mistakes, in many forums, in many strategies, in the country, in the city, in the empresarial level. And we also try to make our part of it evangelize that the circular economy is much more there. Exactly. It is to recycle, you know? It is to recycle. It is to recycle. This is the last instance. It has a circular economy model with five pillars. And there are five themes that can be understood, or that one can't do before recycling. What? Reutilization. That's what we're going to talk about with more detail. Yes, yes, super. And in the case of... Well, we were also talking about... that you have a reference point there at the time. You know, it's already defined as a meta. I mean, I understand that the company has the meta. And that's a very interesting meta to achieve neutrality in 2040. What did you think about that? I mean, how are you seeing it? So, precisely, the circular economy is a motivator to achieve this? Yes, it's a very ambitious meta. Yes, of course. It's very correct. And the CEO who made this meta for the first time in a row, said, "Well, we're going to do Carbon Nucho in 2050." And in the next year, in a meeting with an impressionist, he said, "The gentlemen, this is too little to date. This is very, very late. We have to run that meta for 10 years here, to go forward. To get back to my order and achieve carbon neutrality in 2040. I'm sorry, I called a lot of attention to a point I mentioned. What does that mean? Yes. It was in a forum in the case of COP 21 in Paris in 2015. And he thought that... Did he fall for this? No, yes, yes. What kind of day did he commit? He looked at the volume and promised that he would do Carbon Nucho in 2050. I don't know. He's a super annoying person for any company, for an important person. No, for the manufacturing company, for the products. But for an energy company, whose paradigm of production has always been based on fossil fuels, which, soon, says 0. It's going to be a great generation of 100% renewable energy. It's going to be something great. I mean, it's going to be a great time to make it there. And, in the end, the message has not been sent to us. It's going to be very clear that this is the priority. And it's going to be profitable within the operation. It's efficient with resources. But this is going to be parallel. And what level do you want to take it? I don't want to take it because in traditional methodologies, I think they're still vigorous. When we talk about power of digital networks, there are technical and classical networks. One, two, three. I think that if you keep using it for what you understand, that's the commitment to that level of wireless networks. That's right. Well, after this man is promoted, let's get to the task of the global global level. It's going to be a plan with concrete goals to be able to achieve this decarbonisation, to go out of carbon, to the 2040s, to go out of gas. And also to the thermals that we have at the world level. And that's another issue that I've heard a lot about. That walks the talk. Yes. As they say. Exactly. Exactly. And then we have those concrete goals. That is, it's a plan that we want naturally to give, that we are working specifically for these targets. And within all the framework of those goals, we are looking for this decarbonisation in the three alcances. As you know, the best thing is that nobody will know about the third one, the greatest player to achieve, measure and quantify and improve. In Alcances 1 and 2, we are looking at our carbon, a global level, because what we don't know, we can improve. Of course. And because, if we have this promise, and we have to report about this promise, we have to have scientific data. Yes, that's the evidence. Yes. And if we have science-based targets, to be able to justify or to communicate our advances. But if Luis is talking about these alcances, 1, 2, 3, in terms of carbon, we also have, of course, the great responsibility that we have to promote this reduction of emissions in alcances 2 with our clients, with the companies we provide energy, because in alcances 2, we have energy. The point is where you are taking the energy to produce. Your refresco, your personal hygiene product, what it is. Roblox, all services. Services, of course. Of course, the energy where you are taking it. So, there we see a clear responsibility of being able to offer these options, this renewable energy option, to be able to help to reduce the impact of the alcances 2 on our clients. Also, here in Guatemala, in particular, I would also like to tell you that we have five hydroelectric plants. Exactly, yeah. In a park, 100% renewable. In my house and in the street, I deposit the garbage in its place. I want to live in a clean water, without contamination. The complex is for a company that is in 30 countries. In the sense that in the country, there is the matrix or the tendency to talk about Guatemala. The operation is totally focused on hydroelectric plants. What are they with? Or what can you see? Visualizing from the localization of Guatemala, from the region, even from the Latin America. How to achieve that orchestration? It was obvious to work hard to achieve it, but some comment that I can share about the complex or easy work. I don't think so, but I hope so. No, it was a very big challenge. In our operation, Guatemala is more than 20 years old. We have to be in Guatemala and be operating here. And for you, it was always a renewable operation. It was not like we were talking about moving plants here. It's always difficult, too. But we always had a renewable impact because at that moment, Guatemala's operation was in the green power. It's the division that was only renewable. Imagine that the impact was so strong that when Francisco Estaraje was in the green power, he said that it shouldn't exist in the green power. It shouldn't exist in the green power. It's new for me. Yes, it should be in the green power. It should be renewable. We have to solve it. That's exactly what we are going to do. The idea is that you are in the green power in Guatemala. In Guatemala. So it's a bit of an idea that there is no division. You know, it's good for here. We are doing points here. We are contributing a bit more. But there we go. It's not the idea. No. Everything should be in the green power. It should be in the green power. So that's it. And I feel very optimistic that we are going to achieve these goals. I see that the company is putting the money where we are going to talk. I mean, that's it. And I've mentioned this issue of mission ambition. Yes. How does it relate to the story, how it interprets it, how it is handling it, and how does it relate to its methods of distribution in groups? Yes. This is an issue that I think is important to share in this podcast. That zero-emission ambition to what it refers to, as I told you, is the decarbonization of the operation. That it's not necessary to be a compensation, but that's what we do. We say that it's very low, or low, in generation of missions. And, as I said before, it's also to include the value chain. Because it's not worth it. It's not good. We generate renewable energy. We generate missions. But what do you want? Where do you come from? I came from a boat. What kind of energy do you use to make it? And where do you come from? Where do you bring it? How do you make it? What are materials? They are recycled. They are materials. So from the circular economy, we have many goals to achieve this zero-emission ambition. Because we understand that we have to start with the materials. And that's another issue that I would like to tell you about in this podcast. It has very strong materials. It has a critical raw materials list. What does this mean? Many countries in Europe, which Europe is much more advanced than in our region, have a critical raw materials list. This list is a compensation of the materials that are slaves to generate their money. So they are mapped for their economy. What are the materials slaves? They are aluminum, copper, cement, etc. In the adopted practice of the European Union they have implemented it for the company. So the group has mapped out which materials are specific keys for the business and the marketplace. So we already know that what are the materials we need and what are the cases. What can be re-used? What are the extravagant plants? And in this opinion? And where can they be removed? Where are the sources of these minerals that have already been made as a whole. What do you think of a business strategy? Very intelligent. If you want to guarantee the final business. So it's more of the mentality. If you look for efficiency, you can get it cheaper. If you get the cheapest one, the cheapest one. This is a short piece. What guarantee are you going to be able to make this task that you need. What components, if it's a plastic one. Where will you come from? So based on that material strategy is that you also need to download upstream and downstream. The design of the assets with which you generate energy. And also downstream. Where are those emissions in the chain? I don't know. It's very interesting. I think we should be a podcast only of that. Well, I don't think so. No, because definitely if you listen to what you usually hear. And not here. I mean, at a global level. We had the opportunity to know the experiences of other countries. And when we started talking about circularity, we focused a lot towards the output. I feel responsible because I don't know. Because the teams that are already downloading can recycle, reuse, or give you a care disposition. You are with a planification. I think it's easier to be at least over 50 years. I'm sure. So it's very, very interesting. And that's why I remember when you shared all your strategy. And if you comment on it, it seems to me that something very interesting and very unique at the moment. You don't see it that way. And it can be shared. Because I think that's what I would expect to inspire others to add to working on this. Yes. Now that I mentioned it, I want to tell you that in the beginning of the year, a circular economy indicator was published in the work of Davos. And it was very relevant and well received with a lot of interest because it was the first recognized as the first indicator of circular economy, not circularity. What happens with circular economy? We measured a lot of things that are environmental. How many bottles of plastic or recycling. Look, my research is reverse. So it shows a lot of circularity in the materials. It's a circular economy as a model in business. It's the most difficult thing to quantify. Of course. So in what I don't know, I'm going to put the technique on the indicator, but Agro-Somodo is my material for the production of energy distribution. Versus. The levity is the economic value that comes out of these materials. So it's really input. This is raw materials. They are already alive or not. Within the production of energy. Versus the economic value of levity. That comes out of the company. The other. So this is already a more advanced indicator to measure. Of course. How much material is it? How much is the value? How much is it? So obviously, the measure is reduced. So it's more with less. The challenge that we have now is the company. It's more with less. But in this case, it's specifically not with financial resources, but with natural resources. It's very interesting. Yes, definitely. If you have to change. The internal one has to change. It's the best signal of the best evidence. Of understanding that if the concept is going to be added in another way. In another way. Yes. It seems very interesting. And speaking of I think that this is a lot of value to understand those five pillars. I mean, how do you, in the practical context, have started implementing the circular economy model and how do these manage through the pillars that mentioned it? Yes. And that's the action. How much do you like to share? Luis, this is the circular economy model. This is the one that I refer to. It's the vision of the general, right? Each company can have its own industry. Of course, this is always based. Of course, in the pillars established by Elen MacArthur Foundation, which is the most authoritarian of the circular economy. This is based on three macro themes that work. It starts with the circular design, you see? No. We start with recycling. We start with the design of our assets. Then it continues with the use of the assets during its useful life. And extend it as much as possible. And then, until the end, we start talking about value recovery. Okay. So, these pillars are the following. One, between circular materials, renewable, reuse or recycled. Two, extension of life of the product. Here, what we are looking for is to prolong the life of the assets as much as possible. So, for example, here, in circular works, you can see how, for example, that we have a co-poster project, where we are using the insumers that are of the posts that have fulfilled its useful life. And they are taken more sacred by sand and cement to make new posts. So, there we are, as it is, an example of circular works. The extension of life of the product, we have super robust programs of maintenance in plants, so that a turbine that normally is hydro, that normally takes, has a 20-year-old life, can last for 30 years. Okay. The use shared in platforms is the third pillar. And this refers to increasing the use of use at the time of use, access and property sharing. So, for example, we are promoting floods, obviously electric mobility, collective, electric scooters, in certain cities like Bogota, Santiago, to be able to promote this mobility, but responsible for the environment and shared platforms. So, what do we do? You are impulsing that you don't buy your vehicle or your scooter, but what? The rent, if you only need a little bit, then the best example is the vehicles. How much do you use your vehicle? You go to the office in the morning, and it takes eight hours, and then you return home. It's a 10%, maybe? You use it. While the concept of other companies, of collective transport, for example, is to take a vehicle and you need it. The question online comes, you send it, you leave it where you need it, and follow it. Then you have a total of 100% of your vehicle in every day. So, that's what we're looking for, that the assets are not in use. So, it's not necessary that we all buy a vehicle. Exactly, okay. We start thinking more about the shared platforms. Product as a service. This pillar refers to the idea of selling the clients a service in a product place. As a customer, if you are a customer of mine, then you are close to me, and it tells me about your need, that what you need is a quality energy service, 24/7 for your production plant. Maybe, then, what you need, you are not an ordinary person. Maybe, you can sell a service, energy, or the power supply service, of energy in case of emergency, or a failure in the national system. So, I'm selling a service instead of a product or an active person. Maybe, maybe, you are experts in maintaining and taking care of your solar system. So, I'm generating really, avoiding problems, asking for an additional operation. And, then, this is the last pillar that is the new cycle of life. To the end, we are talking about recycling. This refers to maintaining the value through the reuse of recycling. So, here, there are new projects. It's great to see that I like to tell you. It's the new cycle of life, to give you a second life to the materials. And here I can give you an example, for example, super, as I was very adapted to any company, our uniforms. 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