"Cillian Murphy"

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the cold open of this episode of SmartLess. I'm freezing. You know, it'd be great if Arnett was here to warm this cold open up a little bit. I don't think he's available. No, he's not available. We should just start. Let's just start. Oh, God. Look at all these goozies on my arm. Welcome to SmartLess. Guess what I just finished watching moments ago? A pizza pocket heat up in the microwave. Oh, wait. Let me try. Yeah. I wish. No, it's something with Scotty. I don't have it yet. Your zipper on your pants not be able to. Oh, wait. I know what it is. It's the top button on your trousers flying across the room and breaking a light bulb. No, I just watched the first. Literally 10 minutes ago, I finished watching DTF St. Louis, the first episode. Let me tell you, it is so good. It is right up my alley. Is it? And Jay, another incredible character by you. Oh, thanks. Like really, like so different. Really quick question. Did you say it's a ride up your alley? It's a ride up your alley. It's right up my alley. He's been saying it wrong for years, Will. Don't stop him now. No, it's right up my alley. The way it's shot and, of course, performed, you're brilliant. It's so good, Jay. I can't wait to see it. You're so good in it. Writer, director. I mean, that swing, just the shot of the swing, that's all I'll say. I mean, that's so smart. It's so cool. It gets real, real, real, real, real crazy. Yeah, and the ending of the first episode, wow. It's really good. Thank you for watching that, you sweet man. It's so good. You're so good. I don't know if I've ever admitted this on this show before, but speaking of saying things wrong for years. Yeah, oh, shit. And this is, I'll attribute this to not reading a lot. You know, I'm allergic to books, and I'm not proud of that. Because I feel if I had seen this written, I wouldn't have made the mistake all these years. But I've always thought that when you say the phrase, I'm just trying to make ends meet, I thought that was a phrase that, one would say when they're saying, listen, I'm just trying to get by with just the bare minimum. I'm not being greedy. I'm not entitled. I'm just trying to make ends meet. Meaning, I'm just looking for the part of the cow that doesn't cost a lot. I just need sustenance. I need some food. I'm looking for ends meet, like M-E-A-T, the end of the cow, the ass, which is not going to cost you a lot. This is what my stupid head. This is what you're working on right now. I'm 57, and this was probably a couple years ago. I was 55 until I realized that it is ends of strings or whatever, creating a circle. You want these ends to meet and create a whole thing, which can mean something similar to, I'm just trying to make it all come together for myself. You're trying to be able to afford stuff. You're trying to make it all come together. You're trying to do stuff within your budget. It wasn't a proud moment for me, but I'm not beyond admitting my flaws. I'm just trying to think of the gotcha headlines and the various social media stuff about this. Oh, no, this will be cut. No, this is just for you, me, and your guest, Will. We can't cut this. Speaking of, what kind of cut is that at the end of the cow that you're talking about? You're talking about the flank steak. Well, the flank, it's often called the flank. That's not the end. Wait, but you know, do you know that, like, I love, you know that, remember the, I love, like, sayings and their origination, what are they called? You stupid ass. Yeah. Where they originated from. This is a tough day for me. Go ahead. And where they originated from, you know what I mean? Yeah. And so, remember I did the Saved by the Bell? I told you guys about Saved by the Bell. You did an episode? Or like an arc? No, no, where that saying comes from. Oh. Remember the guy, people used to get buried, remember I told you, or they used to get buried alive? And they didn't know it at the time because people, like, were unconscious. They just thought they were dead, so they'd bury them in these coffins. Then they'd dig them back up to reuse the coffins, and they saw these scratch marks. So they, so they're like, oh my God, we've been burying people alive. So they bury people alive, they tie a string to their toe, they fly, they put it through the ground and tie it to a bell, and you're Saved by the Bell if the bell goes off. And the person who had to sit there and wait to see if the bell went off worked the graveyard shift. Wow. Okay, and this, so this is what you thought, Saved by the Bell was for years. No, that is what it is. It's not, it's a boxing thing. Well, evidently it originated with this, JB. That's right. Really? Yes, that's what I'm telling you. Wait, so hang on. So Will, you're taking, that's news to you and you're going with Sean? That's news to me. I do vaguely remember Sean mentioning this before. Yeah. Well, that doesn't make it true. He's just repeating insanity. Well, I mean, we can, I'm sure people could just look it up as they're listening to this right now. I don't know why we would. That's where it comes from. We're going to have our fact checkers get on that while we're, while we're. We've got fact checkers now? Yeah, yeah. So let's have them do that. When did they start? Will, go ahead, introduce your guest and let's get on with it. Oh, shoot. Jason. This is a little runner that I've been having. I'm trying to get Will panicked. Did you think, did I ever get panicked about it? No, I don't think it worked. It's my guest and I'm so excited. And Willie, I think you're going to be excited too. I think I remember, I think it was you telling me that you're, you're just a kooky fan for this fella and I don't blame you because I am too. Gentlemen. I'm not going to care. No, no. Great, let's start, let's start. It's going to be a great hour for you, Sean. No, you will. Everybody, everybody freaks on this guy for very good reason. Have you searched for the answer to the age old question? What should I do after pursuing rock stardom and being a lawyer? Well, our guest this week has the answer. You become one of the finest actors on the, on the planet. You go out there, you work with the best directors in the world. You turn in some of the most powerful and moving performances ever. And then you grab yourself an arm full of awards, including the little gold guy named Oscar. He's done three careers worth of work already in his 30 years of performing. And it's been theater and film and television. But one of those television projects, projects is now a film. And he's here to talk to us about that. Gentlemen, please welcome Tommy Shelby himself, Mr. Killian Murphy. Oh my God. Yeah. Here with us. Hi, guys. How's it going? Oh, Killian. How cool. So nice to meet you. Hey, man. Nice to meet you. That was a lovely introduction. Thank you. Right. I worked on it for minutes. Where, what time is it for you today now? It's like nearly 6 p.m. in London. Oh, all right. Now, does that, if you're like me, you're about an hour away from sleep. Are you, are you in, are you in comfy socks? Are you getting ready to, to get horizontal? Or are you about to start your night? I do start thinking about bed from, yeah, about half past five. Yeah, that is, that is true. So we're keeping you up right now. Well, no, I mean, I'm just thinking about it, you know, but I will be approaching, I'll be in bed by like half nine. Right. And so you're good. You're good. We're all, we're all in the same. It's so nice. I think the four of us are very good at relaxing and taking it easy. Now, is that because we're of a certain age or is it because we've all really been good at getting after it? And we're kind of, we're kind of done with that. Yeah. Right. I did it. And now I want to enjoy the relaxation of wisdom and age. I don't, I mean, what do you guys think? What's, what's, what's your feeling? Well, I, I'm, I'm a hundred percent agree with Jason. Although I was going to ask you, Killian, is like the having, I'm doing theater right now and I know you've done a lot of theater and it's like, all of a sudden you have to retrain your brain to be, have the most energy at 8 p.m. Yeah. You know, and it's like of the whole day, you have to have most, most of your energy at 8 p.m. And boy, it's rough. Are you going on stage tonight? Tomorrow, my quote unquote week starts Wednesdays. And he's doing a one-man show, Killian. I think you've done, you've done one of those, haven't you? I, I certainly have. Yeah. Wow. Good man. It's a lot. It's like the fucking Everest of acting. That's what I call it. It's pretty rough. Did you ever have, well, Shani, I haven't asked you, I'll ask you both at the same time. Has there been a wipeout yet? Like a total, like, cause that, that's my fear. Like there's no net. There's no, there's no actor you can find the eyes of and sort of communicate silently. I have no idea what I'm supposed to say next. Throw me a line. Yeah. My line the other night was, he tells me, the line is he tells me two kids came forward to confess to it. It was an accident. That's the line. And three show, three or four shows ago, literally on stage, he tells me. Oh no. He. In a four wheel slide. It's just the panic. It's just unbelievable. I mean, you feel like it's 20 minutes long and I go, teenagers, brand their car into him, killed him. And then I just. By the way, I'm sure the audience probably did not know this. No, I know, but. And for you, it seemed like interminable. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But wasn't, but isn't, isn't the line you have forgotten linked to the line that follows it. - Yes, of course. You can't just improvise the line you can't remember because that doesn't shine any light on the next thing you're supposed to say. But you do know the kind of the context. You just kind of forget the word order. So then you paraphrase until you get back on the train. Yeah, you get back on. So you got right back on and it was all right. Yeah, yeah, it was fine. But Killian, any nightmare like that? Yeah. You know the way, when you're doing theater, it's like you got like the left-hand side and the right-hand side. You've got the sort of stage manager side of your brain and you've got the acting side of your brain, right? So you've got the stage manager side going, right, you dropped the prop back there, so you've got to go back and pick up the prop while you're saying the lines. That's right. And they're acting similar. They're running parallel. So you've got this kind of management in your head going, well, you've got to fix this. And then the other side is talking. So I did probably, but I was, it was like, I quite liked not having to rely on the, you know, the terrified eyes across the stage to some other actor, like saying, can you pick up the, like a knife that was not supposed to. So I quite enjoyed it. But what I did find, and I don't know about you, Sean, I could not sleep after it. I could not go to sleep. It's been rough. Really? Yeah. Just wired? Yeah. Absolutely. It was like being thrown out of a helicopter. I could not sleep. How are you about the folks coming backstage and wanting to congratulate you and talk a little bit? Like, are you, I would imagine that I'm obsessed with this. I know. Because I don't want to be fucking bothered. For the most part, at any point in the day. This will keep you from doing Broadway. This very thing will keep you from doing Broadway. I'm with you though, Jay. But I just feel like, I would feel, I would feel burdened to make the person feel comfortable backstage. And I would just feel their awkwardness. And I would feel like I need to host them now. And I need to, just because I want, I don't want people to feel uncomfortable. So I just, like, I'm still working. I'm still, I'm still working. And do you feel that, either one of you guys, with that moment, Killian? Yeah, and I would be, I think when I was younger, I would always be up for the, like, come back to the dressing room and we'll have a drink and we'll go out. But then as I got older, I just couldn't fake it, I think, any longer. And then, but equally, I couldn't sleep. So I didn't know what to do. Like, I didn't go for a long walk, have a bath. Because of the adrenaline, you mean, still? Yeah. Yeah, and then go to the pub. I didn't want to go to the pub. Sit alone, drinking, not a good idea. So what do you, like, what do you do? I don't know what to do. Especially in the tub. I didn't know what to do. Well, can I ask you, this is another thing I'm fascinated with. And you guys, plug yours, you've heard me twat on about this before. But is it the same practice overseas there that it is apparently in New York, where if you are famous, even pseudo-famous, you are obligated. You are obligated to go backstage and pay your respects and say hi. Even if the actor, even if you don't know the actor, any of the actors, and they don't know that you're there. Like, is that apparent? What I've heard is that it's very rude to just watch the show and leave if you're of any sort of notoriety. Is that the same thing over there? Do you guys go back? Do you guys go back? Sometimes. My other half makes me go back. You'd prefer not to, but you recognize that there is a practice. There is a tradition. There's an obligation. There is, yeah. Yeah, there's like a little pressure. Like, if they know you're in the audience because the stage manager comes up and says, I would love to say hi. Yeah, well, if they do that, then of course, then you do that. That's just courteous. But if you don't know the person and they haven't made that connection, I think you're well within your right to just sort of quietly bow out, of course. Yeah, I mean, I've had people come that don't come back. I don't think anything about it. But even if they're not in house seats or anything like that, there's no way for them to assume that you know that they're there. I went to see Sean in previews. I didn't tell him, and I just left. I didn't even go and say hi to him. And it wasn't until we all went together that I went backstage. Not true, Sean. Not true. So, Killian, it's the same thing overseas as far as the practice, the tradition? Yeah, I mean, I can't. People do. I remember once I was doing a show in New York and I had a night off like you have, Sean. And at the time, John Hurt was doing Crap's Last Tape and I went to see the play and it was unbelievable. And it was, you know, it was John Hurt. And the stage manager came up and said, would you like to go back and meet Mr. Hurt? And I went, I was doing a show at the same time and I thought, would I like if John Hurt came back to see me? Now, I wasn't comparing myself to John Hurt. And I went, you know what? I think he's probably a bit tired. I'm going to just leave him. So I just left. And then afterwards I went, you fucking idiot. Why didn't you not go back and meet John Hurt? He's like one of my acting heroes. But I didn't because I felt he might be a little, tired. And it's like, you're famous, I'm famous. So I thought I'd come back and say hi. That's the thing that sort of cringes me out about it. But I hear that it's actually the opposite, that it's, it's, it's respect. You should bring it up more often, Jay. Yeah. Wait, I want to hear about Gillian's musical career. I didn't know this about you. Can you expand on that a little bit? Yeah. Well, it seems to be, excuse me, it seems to be quite common, doesn't it? I, that there's a lot of frustrated musicians in acting. I've encountered lots of them. And yeah, and yeah, it's initially what I'm sure there's probably some of you guys are among them, but I, I, I, that's all I wanted to do from the very beginning was play music and, um, uh, when I saw you, Jason was at the radio head show, but, um, and then obviously it didn't work out. And, uh, so I kind of moved into theater, I think for, to try and get that live experience, you know, that, that connection with an audience that you get when you play music. And then, and then I just, that, that just became the main thing, but it was always music and I was, and I'm still obsessed with this. And it's still my first love. I didn't know that. What are you in a band? I'm sorry. Forgive me. No. I mean, why would you, he was with his brother. Uh, and, and, and w is it true? Is the story, this is Wikipedia facts, so forgive our, our rigorous. Journalism skills. Um, but, uh, you guys were, you guys had, had a band together and then there was a record label that wanted you to sign, but you were like, this smells like maybe an overreach and so let's not sign. And then things kind of transitioned into theater and that became your passion. Was that kind of the way it went? More or less. Yeah. More or less like it was, my brother was still in, he was playing keys in the band and he was, he was only 16 or something when we were on for the record deal. So my parents said, absolutely verboten. You're not like ruining your life. You, they said to me, I can ruin my life, but then we just didn't. Patty, we're going to protect. Yeah. So we, it just all kind of fell apart. Yeah. Um, and then I'd never been to the theater before that. And then after that I saw a play in Cork city where I'm from, which was like, exactly. Yeah. And it was a prom. And I had version of that play and absolutely, absolutely like, I just, I, it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen. Had you seen the film before that? I not at that. It was banned in Ireland. Oh, really? It was banned in Ireland for the first time I saw it was I bought a VHS copy of it in Canada. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's what my grandpa, my grandfather's from Dingle. My grandmother is from County Kerry. Yeah. Oh man. I mean, uh, I spent a lot of time in, in Dingle and they're around, it's beautiful, right? Oh, it's like my favorite place in the world. Oh, yeah. It's beautiful. Shawnee, have you been over there? Yeah. Just once. Um, I, it's just apps to ding, I mean, to Ireland a couple of times, but to Dingle just once, I still have a, I still, we still have cousins, like distant cousins. I think they'll still live there, but yeah, it's really, I still have a sweatshirt that says, uh, I got the single Barry. Uh, so you, so, so the first plus, so the first time. you really experienced the theaters when you saw clockwork orange on stage yeah is that what you're is that what your testimony is uh do we have your answer right yeah um well how did that how did that how did that moment go because your your your parents are both educators yes correct yeah um and so this this this conversation of hey i um i've got i've got good news and and uh and and and even better news uh i'm i'm stopping my my pursuit of rock and roll and i'm uh and i'm going into theater was that was that were they were they buoyed by that or were they like no killian were they all right with it um i think like i was you mentioned i had a very short uh flirtation with like law law i did like a year of a law degree and i yeah failed like abysmally and then i tried to get the repeats and then i got the repeats and then i got a part of the play so i think by that stage jade kind of got like whatever just he's gonna do he's gonna do his thing you know i was i was 20 then so it's that's when you're meant to make mistakes isn't it of course sort of and declare i'm not really sure but i'm following some instincts and uh those are gonna change listen killing i'm continuing making mistakes and i'm 55 right uh i i am uh as i said the other day i'm firmly in the student section in life i've and come to that realization that I'm like, it's okay. Well, your tan and the ceiling fan looks like you're doing all right right now. It is. I know, it's really going, I'm sorry about that. I had to walk around and find the best place to get internet. I'm not kidding. Checking out what had the best, and it's right here with the fan behind me. You've got a monkey on a wheel, you know, just keeping the Wi-Fi going. But I'm curious about, I'm curious about you getting your, deciding to try to get a law degree, like that decision. And then while you're doing that, thinking the whole time, wait a second, I'd rather be doing theater, like I've been affected by this, I've got this thought. Is that kind of, how did that all kind of transpire? I think I just had that natural inclination to perform, which I'm sure you guys are familiar with, you know, just from the very early age. I just, I'm quite a shy person, but I really enjoy getting up on a stage. I hate getting up on stages myself, but I love getting up on stage with someone else or playing music. Isn't that a weird thing where, you know, I think all four of us, our, you know, proudly private people, we don't, we're not, we're not shy per se because of what we do, but like, isn't it, isn't it an interesting thing where we'll sit there in front of the camera and be exposed to millions and millions of people, you know, wanting, hoping in a perfect world, millions of people are going to watch what I am doing. Yet we sort of shy away from being, um, you know, the center of attention, uh, often when we, when we go out or, or, or even when we go out to promote that thing that we want people to see, we're sort of like, I mean, I'll speak for myself. It's just like, oh, I, I, I gotta go out and talk about it over here and over there and kind of light my hair on fire. It is sort of, the, the two things are kind of at odds with one another. The, the, uh. Well, one's controlled and one isn't. Yeah. That's a very good point. That's true. That's true. What's your, what's your, what's your favorite way, uh, Killian to interact? With fans? Like, when is it, when is it comfortable for you? I think, I think I know what my answer would be, but. Well, tell me yours because, uh, tell me yours. I feel, if, if it's one-on-one and them, us talking is not going to cause, um, a, a larger sort of spectacle, um, and cause a scene. Like, I don't want to embarrass myself, my kids, them, you know, creative. So like in an elevator, if it's just, me and one person and, you know, uh, and we, we can have a little conversation as opposed to, oh, take a picture here. And then people walking by, look at what, what's going on here. Oh, maybe I should get a picture too. Oh yeah. I recognize that person. Like, and then it becomes a thing. And then, I don't know. Um, I, I like sort of the one-on-one stuff. What about you? That's, I'm the same. Yeah. Yeah. I love, I love a chat. I love when you have a real chat and someone has really enjoyed something you've done. Right. Like particularly like, you know, we've all been in shows that have run a long time and people love, the people that get very invested in characters. Right. And, and, and, and, and, and so you have to acknowledge that investment and that they've spent that much time with your characters. And, and I love those conversations, you know? Um, I don't like when stuff gets like fetishized. He's going to the shop to buy milk. Oh my God. Yeah. He's just like us. Right. Right. Right. But I love it. I love it. I love the conversation. Right. And we will be right back. And now back to the show. Are you able at times to have the same kind of experience with your characters that, that some of your fans might, in other words, are you able to watch what you do and, and enjoy it from an audience point of view or, or, or can you not get the separation from, um, your experience inside the character? Oh, that's a great question. And I'd love to hear what you guys think about it. Well, well, start with like, do you, do you watch your own stuff or you, or are you an actor that, uh, cause I, I know, I know both, both very, very good actors that watch themselves and learn from that. And then others that they, they, they can't and they won't. Well, it's different jobs sometimes, isn't it? Like this Peaky Blinders film, like we had the premiere last night in Birmingham. I just watched it two nights ago. It's incredible. It was very cool. And, and, uh, what I was producer on that. So I've seen the thing like 500 times. So, you know, I like, um, it was a very different kind of experience watching it too. You know, when you just turn up and as an actor for hire and you, and you do your work and then you see it and some stuff I've never seen at all. Um, and some stuff I'm immensely proud of, but again, I mean, I feel like I try to move forward with everything, then it's like about the next thing rather than going backwards. What, what about you guys? What's your take on it? I don't, do any of you sit around watching your work endlessly? No. That's how I wake up every morning. I can't get out of bed without it. Um, what about, what about like on set? Will you ever watch a little bit of playback too, even at the beginning of the production, just to get a sense of how you're coming across, how they're lighting you, the lenses, or just to get a feel of the tone of it. Occasionally, like particularly for technical stuff, like, like, you know, like stuff that's technical or like a stunt or whatever, but I know I would never go back and look at like um, like a big emotional stuff, but the producing thing has been interesting because it takes the curse off it a little bit. Like, you know, you, you, you look at it and you just go, oh my God, that's how you look. And then you just go, right, but it's important for this character to do this and this guy's got to enter here and she's got to say this and we got to cut here and then it takes a curse off it. Sure. And you look at you and you look at it through a different lens, obviously, right? So you just like this thing that I did last year, I spend a lot of time having to watch different cuts and stuff and eventually got to a place where I got over watching myself and, and was actually able to watch it really objectively about wait, are we telling them, are we telling the best version of the story? We should go back. We should tell you, are we telling the best version? Is this the best take? But all these kinds of things, you know, and, and it did, as you say, sort of break the curse a little bit. I was no longer watching my performance. I was watching a bigger, a bigger thing. Yeah. No vanity. Just sort of being an audience member. Zero. Yeah. I always think, I always think I'm slightly better looking than I actually am. Yeah. And then I'll watch it. I'll go. Nope. No, you're not. You're not at all. Actually. Turned it off. Close. Yeah. Close to being what you thought you looked like. I know. Um, well, uh, Kelly and Wolf, uh, w was there, I was speaking of, of, of music and then law and all this. Yeah. Was there ever a moment where, and thank God you didn't, but was there ever a moment where you thought, yeah, maybe this acting thing that let's put that in the bin as well. Let's try career path number four and go into industry X or occupation Y. Um, did you ever think about, about giving up on, on doing this? No, no, really. After a period, you kind of like you burnt your bridges, I think, and yeah, nothing else available really. Yeah. And then, and during the fallow periods, obviously you get really cranky and yeah, but, and I don't like, I'm not a writer, I'm definitely not a writer and, uh, so I didn't have that, but I would go and play music and the kind of fallow bits or just, you know, um, just go and just watch movies and read books. But it is, I didn't know, I never got to the stage where I thought, ah, fuck this. But I, I did whenever the stuff started to get kind of dry up in film or television, I was very lucky. I have, um, a friend of mine called Enda Walsh, who I made an awful lot of theater with. And we, we, we did some really great plays. He gave me my first ever play, part in a play after I saw Clockwork Orange when I was like 19 to 20. And so I continued to work with him, making like new plays throughout my thirties and forties. And that kind of kept me sane. I think, you know, when this stuff kind of just, people aren't calling, you know? Wow. That's great. That's great. So you established like so long ago, this, this, uh, collaboration and you've managed to sort of keep it going for all these years. Yeah. I haven't done a play in a while now because, um, it's kind of become a little terrifying to me. And honestly, I'm a little scared. Is it because you're worried about Jason Bateman coming backstage and saying hi after the show? Is that what's keeping you awake? Killian, it's me again. I just, I've come back for one more night. I'm just outside. They basically got you. I want every theater to put up Jason's picture backstage and do not let this guy back here. Super eager. Will not leave. So you start going to try to do it and they're like, no, no, we're good. The main reason I did this podcast so that we could talk about it, send up the warning. Um, is there, is there something that you have, uh, is there, is there, is there some sort of advice that you have, you've, you've gained with your experience now that you wish you could go back? Like tell that dude back then that don't worry about the fallow periods. It's going to be, is there, is there something that you wish you would have known then that would have made those, those ups and those downs a bit more tolerable? Yeah. Hmm. This is a great question. Um, I mean, aside from don't worry, you're going to win an Oscar one day. Hang in there. Um, you know? Yeah. That would definitely lighten the mood. Yeah. I don't know. I think it's that thing about overthinking stuff. Yeah. Overthinking it, over intellectualizing everything and not sticking to your instinct, I think It's the key thing for artists. I know, but what is that healthy balance? Because I've always heard that with everything in life, with all of us. I think we've all heard somebody say, ah, you're overthinking it. But how do you know what the difference is between overthinking and just using the intelligence that you've been working on? You know, it's like we work hard to be smart, or at least we think that we're smart. And so how do you know when to pull back on that? I just don't know. Well, what's your guys' approach to like prep then, for example? Because sometimes I would get so over, it would just take up everything and everything we're all consuming. But then the whole point when you get into a scene is that you have to be completely free of all that. Yeah, no anger. So it's kind of counterintuitive or counterproductive. To have a lot of that prep sometimes. I know it. But yet you think your duty is to do all of that. So how have you arrived at that? It's shifted for me. It's shifted for me. I was different from Jason because I was blown away that maybe you do this too well. Do this too well is like I make sure I'm off book completely from the first time I step on set or walk out on the rehearsal room or whatever it is. Because if I have my book in my hand or whatever, I just can't be free, like you're saying, Killian, to explore. Where Jason has said in the past where you don't make choices, you just literally memorize the words and then you work on it in rehearsal. But I don't even memorize the words because my, pardon the term, process, when I memorize has a lot to do with my imagination of kind of how that's going to kind of go. And I don't like to decide or start to approach the decision of how I'm going to do something until I see and understand what the other actors are going to be doing. And what the director is looking for and how the scene is blocked and where a camera's going to be and all that stuff. Because if I predetermine how I'm going to do something and what my faces are going to look like, it might not work with what the other people are doing. You've got that book of faces. I know you've got that book of Polaroids. I've got those memorized. I started memorizing in really monotone ways. It's truly, I started memorizing monotone way and recording myself. This is true. Yeah. And with a very monotone voice so that I had. I had zero inflection and crossing out all stage direction and just taking all of that away. And I did get into a situation. I was working on this thing and I got there and they're like, now you've got to go and get the thing on the other side of the room. I'm like, oh, do I? I didn't even know that I had it. You know, but because I, but actually it was very helpful because it just happened very organically and I hadn't thought about that. And so it's really shifted as I've gotten older how I look at it. And my preparation is so much different now than it was. And also, JB, I think about like when we were, when we used to do Arrested Development, for instance, it was much more, Sean, it's a TV show. Yeah, it's a TV show. It used to be a band. Sean's never seen it. We got sued by them. I think for, I think for when you're, I used to think about sort of prepping to do comedy, especially because it was so quick and it would happen so that it didn't serve me, certainly. I know that you were similar in this way, JB, because we did a lot of scenes together, that it was, you, you just kept it, it was all kind of just at the surface until you got there. Right, because that, that puts, that increases my odds of reacting to you like the audience is experiencing it. Yeah, it's so much about rhythm and comedy in that way. Rhythm is the big thing, I think. The meaning can come after the rhythm or I guess for you guys, like if the, if the, the comedy or the gag or the bit that comes out. But like if you get into a rhythm with a, in a scene and if you, I guess if you have a predetermined rhythm, then how are you going to lock in with anyone else, I guess. You can't, you can't, and you can't, you need to stay nimble to allow for shit to happen. But I do think it's different for a theater because I would be the same as you, Sean, like with a, with a, with a theater piece, I would be completely off book when I get to rehearsal. But you also, and here's the difference, you also have a theater, by the time you get there, you're in, you're in rehearsal. I mean, Sean, I know. You, for instance, in this and also for, for Goodnight Oscar, what a show that you, that you were completely off book and then, and then, but then you get into previews and now you've got a couple of weeks of previews and that sort of, and it changes and that starts to eat away at all your predetermined stuff that you have. So you don't, but you don't have that luxury when you're making a film or making a show. It's, it's the, the, the performance is the one, is that day and that's it. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. You know, it's funny. There, there is this one line where I reference a very famous musical in this current show. And one of the producers of this famous musical came to the show and didn't like that we mentioned his musical that he produced. So it's a 75 minute monologue I did. It's just me. And for, so we had to change the one word to another musical. Huh. And so for, from the time you started, all I thought about from the time the curtain opened was that one word I had to change. Yeah, make sure to get it right. I was like, oh shit. From the time you started. Yeah. I was like, thanks a lot, dude. Yeah. All right. Killian, 28 days later, that was first film? No. No, I'd done a few films in Ireland, kind of small independent films in Ireland. This is, this is the one that, that, that, that. What a film. Yeah. Put, put you on a lot of, a lot of. A lot of radars. I guess so, yeah. Yeah. And, and did it, did it, did it feel like, okay, I've got a little bit of wind at my back now. And this, this might work out. Yes? Or. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. At that stage, the film, like we never expected the film to do well and it did well and. But you did have Danny Boyle. I mean, you knew your, your odds were good, right? I mean. They were good. They were, because he's a master. Sure. And I had like his posters of his films on my wall in my bedroom growing up, you know. Before I ever became an actor, because they were just so cool, like Trainspotting and Shallow Grave. Sure, I love Trainspotting and Shallow Grave. And, I mean, it's a masterpiece. And, but the thing about it was that zombie genre was, wasn't very cool at the time or wasn't really like, there hadn't been a kind of a zombie thing. Right. And even though this is technically like an infection, they're not undead. But anyway, at that time that we shot it, like it was the summer of 2001 and then, then obviously like 9/11 happened and then, but before that SARS had happened and then, and then obviously all those years later, like COVID happened and then it became this kind of meme and it's a very prescient writing, very good writing. Yeah. And, and people went nuts for it, the original movie. So yeah, it was a great start. But I went through the wringer for that movie. Like Danny, I had like five or six auditions for that to get the perks, done very little at the time. And I kind of knew it was a real substantial script, but Alex Garland wrote the script and Danny directed it. Great writer. Yeah. He's such a great writer and an amazing director. An amazing director. What was the moment from your last audition? When did you find out that you got it after going through all the auditions and being like, Jesus Christ. Do you remember that moment? Do you remember where you were? I do actually. Yeah. I was, I was, I do. I was in an air, I was in a, I was in Stansted airport in the queue to get a Ryanair flight back to Dublin and Danny called me and I had to do one of those like unbelievably contained celebrations where you like drop my bag and sit down and kind of, but yeah, it was, it was massive for me, that movie. It's fucking 20, 23 years ago or something. Wow. Now he, he, he talks often, doesn't he, about energy over perfection. Do I have that right? His, his sort of, his MO on, on, on set. Can you, can you explain what, what he might mean by that? What, what it's, what it's, what his direction, his environment is like, what that set is like, what his, what his style is like? Sounds about right. Yeah. He, he's incredible energy and passion for it. Like he never stops moving. He never stops. Uh, like he's on every single element of the, of the, of the set. Um, and, and it's constant, uh, ideas, constant, um, he's constantly, um, pushing, you know, and really pushing the actors and pushing every department. Um, and I, I absolutely loved that at that age. I don't think I'd been in, you know, working with someone who was so coherent in their vision for the film, if you, if you know what I mean. Yeah, sure. Just full enthusiasm and just knows all four corners of what this scene's supposed to do and how it's supposed to be done. Yeah. And it's infectious. And every time you think, oh, I thought that was pretty good. Like, you know, you're off again. And we shot that on domestic cameras, like these little, do you remember in the early two thousands, everyone had these little cameras with like cards in them and stuff. So they were all like stuff you could buy. And so that, like, yeah, they were slightly more advanced. I can't remember what. At the format is, but anyway, it was just one of those movies that kind of clicked, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's a, a, a, a style that I would imagine. is is it wildly different than you know what an incredible collaboration you've had with christopher nolan um yeah i was gonna get projects right incredible um that from what i from what i understand uh what i've heard is um um uh a more uh exacting and and and and contained and and deliberate approach um to to the execution yes or no and and you know to the extent you're comfortable talking about it because um i i i would assume that um you know environments on on sets well not assume i know uh they're they're often private you know individual environments that are are weird to re-describe but um uh it just strikes me having not many actors get to work with the same director six different projects i would imagine you guys have a bit of a shorthand and and a real comfort in each other's style oh yeah i mean i i've learned so much from chris he's completely kind of shaped my whole career i mean it's it's very clear like work working over 20 years but he's he's absolutely remarkable he is incredibly rigorous incredibly precise but within that there's fantastic freedom yeah you know there's only whatever one camera and there's chris and he's got this tiny little monitor that he has like puts back never two cameras rarely unless there's a big set piece you know um um but he has this tiny little thing again from like the 90s that he watches a shitty little um playback from the thing but he rarely is watching it because he's right beside the camera watching you um and you'll never leave it he'll never leave a scene unless he feels like you know you're happy and he's happy and um it it's it's i can't really explain how wonderful it is how focused is how fast it is but yet it never feels fast like we shot oppenheimer in 59 days or something like that wow with all that scope i know yeah amazing so do you think that that's that speed or that efficiency it just comes as a result of him really being precise about knowing what what he wants what he needs he's properly prepared and he doesn't hang around longer than uh he's gotten what he wants for that particular shot and off we go exactly i mean he's written the he's written the thing and he knows every single frame he storyboarded it all in his head so it's and the thing about nolan movies is if when they used to be dvds there was never any extras because he shoots the script the script is the script there's no deleted scenes there's no extra it's the script and he finishes every movie like ahead of schedule on the budget yeah do you do you do you feel having him yeah it's pretty remarkable uh having him right next to camera and and obviously you guys because you've worked so much together there there is a comfort there do you do you get a comfort of having do you feel that comfort of having him right there next to camera close to you yeah there's no such thing as video village or like yeah yeah yeah it's like when i stand next to you will yeah you just comfort you can say no we're talking about comfort drop no we're talking about comfort but i mean so and and so so then i'm going to ask you so so you feel that and you might that's yeah it's it's evident in in your work that you do with him and so i wonder if when you go and you do work with other directors do you ever feel that like sort of sense of not detachment further they are further away or they are at video village or you're not and you don't have that sort of that proximity that relationship that's so close do you do you feel the difference sometimes and and i don't mean this as a to disparage other directors clearly sure no i understand no i think it's like what we were discussing earlier you know you over time you i think it's our duty to be really really flexible isn't it because if you come on one set with us and like this is the only way i will work sure some directors love to rehearse some directors don't love to rehearse some directors love have everybody look at the monitor and chat and others you know don't do that so you have to kind of bend to their approach i find and uh and i love doing that like and you know i don't particularly love rehearsing on film but if there's a director that insists on it i'll go for it you know because it's their vision and i'm just there to serve the the vision and so i kind of like that at the adventure of it and i'm sure you guys are all the same you know it's a it's like it's always like a new circus isn't every time you get a new job it's like this new circus and what's it going to involve and what are the what what you know so i like that for sure we'll be right back and back to the show how do you like affecting the um the health of that circus the harmony of that environment um depending on your level of influence on that set like uh you know just even the nolan films for example that there are some where you're a part of an ensemble and then like oppenheimer you're you're you're the lead and you're you're you're uh you can you can you can affect the environment of peaky blinders um you know again sort of the the the captain um and also uh in a in a producerial position as well do you enjoy that sort of leadership position or do you like to disappear and do just be sort of part of the team um and be like a soldier i think it's it's a bit of both really isn't it like if because it's funny you say soldier because the whole like the whole of the film set is based off like the old military kind of setup isn't it like what's your you got your director and your first ad and your second ad and your third ad and you know everyone's got you got number one in the college you're number two in the college you know it's yeah and it has to work like that and you know and everything comes from the top i think you know uh the the atmosphere and the ambience and the vibe and the energy always is percolates down from the leaders like the producers and the director and the lead actors down to how everyone so i think it's always nice to i love to have a set where people are having a bit of fun and a bit of crack and crack in the irish vernacular yeah yeah yeah we were with you we were with you okay oh boy i want to know murphy loves crack we've got our yep killian how do you speak about how how do you stay so fit you're always like you're i know you're younger than us but i think it's crack is it not just hold us because you have kids too right you're constantly working you're constantly on the go and but you're in like incredible shape will looks pretty good there he does oh thanks man that's bronzer a lot of that's bronzer yeah it is no i think i think all of you guys are very well maintained i think it's kind of the part of the job isn't it unfortunately or fortunately i don't know well there's another part of that that wikipedia um incredible uh hints i got there was is it true that you uh to to avoid mad cow disease you went vegetarian then you started eating then you started eating meat to bulk up for peaky blinders and then you stopped eating and you're back to vegetarian for i i it didn't it didn't give me the reason for the return but do they have it right so far that's more or less accurate i i met my wife when i was 20 and she was she's been a vegetarian all her life so i was kind of became a vegetarian then and then i did kind of so it was more out of convenience than of any real sort of you know um uh opposition to it but now i i do do it because i i i don't really want to eat animals or you know um but and if you were to you would make ends meet thank you will and that's our episode everybody thank you for joining us wonderful book we have made the two pieces of string connect at the bottom um uh no but you know that whole that whole bulking up thing uh i know i'm all over the place but um i saw this documentary once because i went vegetarian for a year to try to lower my cholesterol uh and it only dropped one point after 12 months of eating nothing but really i remember i remember that sticks and berries yeah wasn't that long ago but i watched this documentary while i was doing it and and uh and they made a point that you don't need meat to bulk up because they made a point that like gorillas are vegetarians rhinoceros uh giraffe like all these huge animals all they eat are leaves and uh you're absolutely right there and i should just the update is that i am now like i've always been pescatarian and i don't eat any meat so that's the wikipedia update so there's fish we'll add that in there today thanks you say you do do the fish i do do the fish yes right right and you're entirely right it's it's very possible to if you need to do that to do it through plant protein of course i don't know i was just being an idiot back then i don't know i'm still an idiot um all right let's uh talk to me about peaky blinders now um just how long had you been doing how long sorry jay how long did you do peaky blinders before how long been living in the world of peaky blinders so we did the show on and off for since two two we shot the first season in the end of 2012 so on and off wow 14 years so which i worked out was like a quarter of my life yeah yeah and and and how have you i'm sure you have enjoyed because you could have left it earlier but you you have uh undoubtedly enjoyed the progression of tommy and and and and shaping uh his his growth along with With Stephen Knight, yes. Yes, but I'm curious to know about you guys as well because people ask me this stuff and, you know, that old showbiz adage, like, you know, don't quit a hit. Yeah, amen. Like, if something is working and people, you know, a lot of journalists will say, oh, it must be, you know, hard going back and playing this thing. It's amazing writing. Well, if it's incredibly high quality like what you guys have there and the film, my God, took it to even a higher level of production value and cinematic pleasures, just unbelievably well directed and shot and scored and performed and lit. I mean, what a film. But, yes, amen. If you've got a gig in this business, stick with it. These people that, like, quit their series job because they want to be open for all the feature, opportunities that they feel might be just around the corner, it's like, no, ding dong. You got time for those, too. I love that character of yours. The guy who talks like this, who does the thing. I want to be freed up for features. Yeah, exactly. But also, I think the thing that those people forget is that the features people are all watching the show. Right. I'm thinking, oh, of course. Wouldn't they be great in my film? Yeah, right, right. Right? Killian, do you spend a lot of time in the States or are you happy where you are? I do come over for work, yeah. I've never lived other than, you know, for jobs. For jobs. So you love Ireland. Well, I lived in London for a long time. We lived here for 14 years. Oh, you live in London now. I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry. We're back in Ireland now for about 10 years, but we did live in London for 14. Oh, got it. And then before that, we were kind of like, you know, wherever work would take me, I guess. Why do you ask, Sean? Do you have an Airbnb? Well, no, it'd be nice to have a. You got a rental that you want to just pay off the mortgage just to cover costs, right? And what can you offer them? A housekeeper comes twice a week? Did the occupant just take off on you? I just think first and last in a deposit, we're good. No, because. No, I don't know. I'm always curious because I love it where you are and I get the draw to both. I mean, America is obviously incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but we're kind of like itinerant, aren't we? We just have to follow the work and that's the nature of it. Yeah, we're in the circus, as you say. Yeah, and you kind of. My friend once called it the circus of the unemployable. I think that was a very good phrase. Yeah, it is. The thing I was going to ask you about, about doing multiple seasons, years of the same character, is, you know, how much have you enjoyed having that character? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good question. I mean, I think it's a good question. I think it's a good question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, when you run into someone, I was just thinking about you run into people that you worked with on something really intensely and you see them like at a restaurant or out on the street or at something else, you know, and I don't even just mean actors, like anybody who's part of the filmmaking process, a production designer or whomever, and you see them and you're like, and you go, hey, hey, and you've got this like really intense part of your life where you had this real connection where you're both doing this creative endeavor and you're like, hey, but you've always got that, you know what I mean? And your family has no idea who these people are. And you've spent more time with them in the last few years than you have your actual family and they've never met them. And they bring you such joy in that moment when you see them. Yeah, yeah. Yes, and then it's instant. There's no like getting to know you again. It's just you're straight back into it because you've been through the trenches. Yeah, straight. Well, we are two minutes over. Yeah, parting shot, Shani? No, I was just going to say, now when I run into you, Killian, we worked on this together. We did. So we have this moment and this experience together. So when we run into each other. Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man in select theaters, it already, March 6th, it was, and on Netflix, March 20th. I highly recommend this thing. And you can't fold laundry watching it either. Put the laundry down, tuck in, and enjoy every frame of this thing. Incredible work done by, in front of and behind the camera. It's just, it's a stunning film, really. You're very kind. It's lovely to chat to you guys. I want, I had loads of questions to ask you guys. Oh, let's start. Get yourself a podcast and invite us on. They're handing them out. Thank you. We haven't had a gossip. I know. We don't gossip all day long. Yeah. But you can gossip after I leave. Yeah. Such a pleasure to meet you. What a pleasure. I've been a big fan for a long, long time. Such a big fan. Yeah, same. Such a big fan. Likewise, guys. You're the man, Killian. Lovely to chat to you all. Yeah. We'll do it again sometime. Enjoy your evening. Get your slippers on. Thanks. All right. See you guys. Yeah, it's nearly bedtime now. All right. Bye, buddy. Good night. Bye-bye. Bye. Well, there he is. And you know, the most remarkable thing about his talent, that accent, completely fake. Wow. He is actually from, yeah, yeah, yeah. No kidding. Canton, Ohio. Why would he? But why would he? Canton, Ohio. Yeah. His dad actually was one of the people that helped build the NFL Hall of Fame. NFL Hall of Fame. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah. Amazing. No, this is a character he hasn't dropped for years. Incredible. I mean, that's deep. That is amazing. Committing. Deep, deep. So, wow. What a fella. You know what? Yeah, he's so good. Christopher Nolan and him, like, you kind of think of those two together. And I was trying to think of, like, who else is there? There's a lot of them. Like, Tim Burton and Johnny Depp. Yeah. Yeah. Leonardo DiCaprio. And Scorsese. And Martin Scorsese now. Sure. Yeah. I mean. Did he really like Scorsese? Yeah. And Tom Hanks and Spielberg did a bunch, didn't they? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. He's one of them. Here comes a joke, right? Let's see. Sean. I thought that was leading to a buy, but no. That was a real observation. It was. He was being sincere while he searches for a buy. Where do you go? Is there a buy website, Sean? I do have a bunch of buy things, but. Oh, boy. Will, you're showing a lot of restraint, not doing any of the bye jokes at all. I know. Shoot. Oh, that's a good one. Sean, did you key in on one? Did you get one? I did. This just came to me. I hope, you know, I hope the movie, I can't wait to see the movie of our guest today. That's great. What's it called? It's called Peaky Binders. Beautiful shot. SmartLess is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant-Terry, and Rob Armjarff.