Church Hurt, Isolation, and Finding Your Way Back

I'm fine. I just don't need people as you cannot do this on your own. Yeah. First of all, we were we were created to be in community Hello there. You're listening to the girl talk podcast. My name is Carol. I'm Kelly. I'm Trisha. We're glad you've joined us today I'm fine. I just don't need people. Have you ever heard anybody say that? Have you ever said that yourself? Yeah, maybe not out loud This place is too people for me. Yeah, that also spent all my people dollars. That's exactly right. Yes. So let's talk about this I hear This statement from a lot of people who have experienced church hurt Hmm and I understand that um But there is danger in having shallow relationships. So let's talk about some of those dangers What do you think are some of the dangers of of For lack of a better term Isolating yourself as a believer and living on an island and saying I can do this all my own I don't need other people. What do you think What is your delusional first of all You because you cannot do this on your own. Yeah. First of all, we were we were created to be in community The scripture is clear about that over and over and over again everywhere you look It's community. It's community. It's community. It is you know The god himself is community father son in a holy spirit. It's god is community. He created Adam and said it's not good for man to be alone and so he created Eve We are we are created to be in community and there are so many dangers of not being in community It's when the enemy can strike you best. You know, it's get you alone and get you isolated and the enemy can have a Field day In your head and in your mind and in your life because you're not protected by other believers Those natural the what is it national geographic animal shows? Uh-huh that last little antelope by itself Yeah, yeah, that's the one that's gonna get it there's a verse in Proverbs somewhere that says A man Man should I be alone? Well, no, not that one. I did that is a verse, but it's talking about A man with broken down walls How you have no protection? I think of that other believers is protection. You just as you were talking about And so that is definitely one of the dangers. What would you say is another danger? You know what I thought about Um, you're talking about church, you're talking about church. Maybe think about church and you're talking about If you are if you are by yourself if you are a lone wolf Christian, which is no good it's It can be similar to a leader that has no one to challenge them Oh the problem is when we are not surrounded by people who will challenge us Then we just go straight ahead with our own way. I heard yeah, I heard this great quote. I think John Akef said this he said a A leader that refuses to be questioned will always do questionable things exactly exactly You could just put in the word christian. Yeah, a christian the refuses to be questioned will always do questionable things and when you are By yourself a lot of the time and you don't have those deeper relationships Then the questionable things seem right. Okay, so let's let's talk about that in the framework of yes, but you don't know what I've been through Because yeah, you because I have a feeling somebody's listening on the other end of this podcast and they're about to turn it off right now Wait before you do because I think we have all been through some kind of hurt church hurt or no, maybe not a church But other believer hurt in our lives. Yes, and so how do you begin your way back? How did you go back to Living in community after Having been hurt deeply. Oh so hard. It's hard. Yeah It's painful because you know you're going to get hurt again. Yeah, and and that's part of Realizing well for me The church hurt that I had also made me realize that hurt people hurt people And I'm a hurt person yep, and so there's danger in me hurting people. Yeah, I'm a I'm a flawed person I'm a broken person. I am not perfect and so I'm also just as guilty of hurting people as anybody who has ever hurt me is guilty and That was one way I found my way back was to just reflect on my own and work do some work with the Lord to say god Where have I gone wrong? What is how have I hurt people? I don't ever want to feel this way again So how do I make sure that I don't feel this way again? But then I also don't hurt anybody else again. Yeah, yeah Yeah, it's hard. I mean, it's hard and the second you asked that boom. I went back to this experience that I had And how Painful it was and honestly I didn't want to let it go. I didn't want to let it go because I didn't want them to get off the hook I wanted an apology before I was going to be able to let that go. Yeah, and you know what? It took time. I mean, it took time. It took prayer. It took me asking a couple of trusted friends to pray for me and with me And finally I got to the place praise god that I didn't need an apology That I released my need for an apology and then I was able to re-enter that community and I did Eventually express to someone that was within that community that I had been hurt and that But there was enough time that passed enough prayer that I wasn't doing it out of anger frustration lashing out Yeah, I had already released the need for an apology. I just felt like I needed to Express it so that that person could understand and the people that were involved could understand better And and now my relationship with them. I would say is stronger than it has ever been. Wow So it's true. It's true healing That took place, but it started with having to release that need for an apology You know, I think that when we isolate ourselves when we get hurt like that and we isolate ourselves we tend to think That we're protecting ourselves. Yeah But in all actuality We are limiting ourselves to the degree we can experience all the good things in life Um, and what I mean by that is that when you when you Isolate and you build up walls You also build walls around your capacity to love and to feel joy and to feel all those positive emotions Um, though the wall does not one side it It is two sided so it builds a wall around your heart for protection But yes, it builds a wall around the capacity that you have to experience the good things in life And I never realized that yeah, it took years and years and years and years and years and lots of counseling For me to understand that that that really wasn't protection And that really wasn't it's not it's not healthy. No, it's not healthy emotionally It's not healthy physically and why do you think it is that whenever you they always say you know If you're going to start working out go with a friend. Why do you think that is it's community? It's somebody who has the same type of goal that you do your headed in the same direction And when you don't feel like it they can call you and say hey, we go into the gym today and you say oh, okay, I guess we will And when they don't feel like it you can do the same for them and that's that's one of the ways that we work That's how God put us together. I think it's also you know When you're running on a treadmill and you like trip over yourself and you fall flat on your face And you like go backwards and you end up hurting yourself You know you've seen those like reels where people do crazy things like that you need somebody who's gonna pick you up and push stop and push the stop and take you to a hospital for your press stop y'all would be dying Last we would laugh a little bit here's the analogy. I want to make. Okay. This is what we're gonna do that in our real lives You know, we're gonna be running on a treadmill of life And we are going to trip over our own feet and we're gonna fall flat on our faces And we need Christian other Christian sisters in Christ to come to us and be like I'm gonna pick you up And I'm gonna take you. I'm gonna be your spotter when you're lifting those hardweights I'm gonna be the person who takes you to the hospital when you drop that weight on your face. Yeah, you know Whatever happens. I want I'm gonna be there to take you to the Father to take you to Jesus to walk with you through the hard Things of life because we're all gonna go through hard things of life We're all gonna go through Mistakes that we're gonna have consequences of we're gonna go through Unforeseen problems that are gonna happen in our life and we're gonna need those people with us and you know Maybe it starts with finding a buddy at the gym, but it probably is better to find a buddy at the church. Yeah Yeah, absolutely. So what would you say would be one of the things that helped you kind of take a step forward from church If somebody's listened to this today and it's like so new it's fresh Their fresh off of betrayal or a church split or some kind of Emotional wound from another believer. How would you say they need to take a step forward? Well the thing I talked about earlier happened at church. It was a church experience and I had to Separate my experience with this particular group of people Verses my experience with God. Mm-hmm. That's so good. Okay. Yeah - Yeah, so it wasn't that God did that. This group of people did that. And I can still trust God and I can still lean on God and God is still perfect and God still loves me and God still cares and all of those things. So moving, when it's fresh, like you said, just keep leaning into God. - I think it's so important that you mentioned that first. Here's why, because I think when people get hurt at church, their first reaction is to completely be done with God. - Yeah. - And people miss Jesus because of other people. - That's right. - And so I think it's so crucial that you said that. So yeah, that is definitely to separate those two out. - Yeah. - That's so good. - I think it's okay, and you all may challenge me on this, but I think it's okay to give yourself a little bit of time. - Oh yeah, sure. - You don't have to jump back in and pretend. I tried going back into this group of people before I had had enough healing and I ended up feeling worse and I ended up almost saying the wrong thing and I God kind of was working with me and I was praying and stuff like that. So it's okay to give yourself a little bit of time before re-entering into the same experience where you got hurt. - Yeah, and I will say this that forgiveness and healing doesn't always come in the form of reconciliation too. - That's true, also. - Yes. - There are some instances that that's really not healthy for you to enter back in that situation. So I don't want you to hear that. Oh, you have to have a relationship with these people. No, they don't. What we're concerned about is you and your emotional wellbeing and you dealing with whatever it is that you got going on so that you don't miss Jesus because of that. - That's fair. - Yes, yeah, yeah. You definitely need community. - Sure. - And it might be that that's not the community for you. - Right, yeah. - And I think part of what I said earlier too, it's you have to kind of look at yourself and say what have I done to cause this problem or what was my part of this church hurt or this situation, this broken relationship that's my part in this and really seek forgiveness for that, even if it's only forgiveness from the Father. If a reconciled relationship isn't the right thing, then that's also for the Father to tell you. But sometimes entering back into that same community is something you could never do again. And that's also also okay. But you have to find the community that is right for you. You have to find another group of believers that can give up. - Right, that's right, you've got to find somebody. I would say also be careful in going to people who believe exactly the same thing that you do and what I mean by that is that the other person is the bad guy because you can find yourself, get on my side, you want a cheering squad against them. - Yes, that is very dangerous. And I would say probably one of the things that helped me the most was getting in front of somebody who doesn't have any skin in the game, who isn't emotionally charged for the situation and just saying, here's what happened, here's, because that person can give perspective that people who are emotionally involved can't give. And some of my best conversations and most revealing conversations about my heart and where I was at have been with people who don't have any emotional connection to the situation at all who could say, hey Carol, that is your pride showing up big time. And I love them for saying that now I pouted a day or two, but they said the hard things and people who are emotionally involved in the situation just can't do that. So do not guard yourself against building a team, are you on my side or their side kind of mentality? Because you're gonna lose every time, yeah. Get with somebody, get in front of somebody, whether that be a Christian counselor, whether that be a mentor, somebody who just isn't in the situation, get in front of somebody who doesn't have any skin in the game because that is gonna give you some much needed perspective about the situation and about your own heart in the midst of it. I totally agree with that. And a thought that came to my mind as you're saying that is what we need to clarify or something that makes sense to me is clarifying, what are you looking for in a relationship? Meaning if you're looking for someone else to give you what only Christ can give you, you're gonna wind up disappointed every time. But if you're looking for someone who is flawed like you, like me, who is, who has their own challenges, who's crawling toward God the same way we are, then that's a relationship that's worth seeking. It's a relationship worth growing and dealing with even the hard parts because that is the kind of relationship you want. But just clarifying that we're not looking to a relationship with other people, whether they're in church or somewhere else that's gonna give us what we can only get from God. - Does that make sense? - That's so true, yeah. - Yeah, that's good. - Yeah, so-- - That way we can forgive people. - Yeah, because we're not looking for them to be perfect. - That's right. - Because only God is perfect. - That's right, that's right. - That's good. - So, community is hard. I think we've all established that. Why do you think makes it hard? - True community. - I think part of it is that we don't want to admit that we have our own junk. And so, real community's hard because we have to be vulnerable and we have to be transparent and authentic. And we set ourselves up to be betrayed and there's just fear in that. There's fear in how is this person gonna treat my authenticity? How are they gonna love me the way I really am? And where are they gonna go and talk about me behind my back? - How are they gonna hold my story? - Right, how are they hold my story? And so, it's important for us to be vulnerable. It's important to be authentic and transparent. And all of that can be abused and used and taken out of context and that's just really scary. - Put us right back at the beginning where we had that broken trust to begin with, right? - Yeah. Yeah, I think one of the things that can make true relationships and community difficult is for me, it's sort of a desire to be the one that we're talking about. It's pride. It's the desire to be the one that we're talking about, my stuff. I struggle sometimes to release the desire to be the one in conversation, to be the talker, the talker. Yeah, but real community is giving your attention to other people, not just getting attention. And so, when I am in, I can tell when I'm not in a good place because I wanna be the center of attention. And then if I go into a group of people and I wanna be the center of attention and I don't get to be, that gets me all upset. But when I have met with the Lord and I've been in a better place and I'll go in, I wanna give my attention to somebody else. But part of what makes community hard is that we come in with our junk and I come in with my thing and I wanna be the center of attention and you're not giving me enough attention. And that's a problem because I need to be filled up and you're supposed to be filling me up. It's like kind of an expectation of getting filled up all the time. Whereas true community is ebbing and flowing and giving and listening and supporting and being supported and humility. And that I think is the real ingredient for true community is humility. - That's so good, that's so good. - So do you need community? The answer is yes. And one of the things I think that is so powerful about this community that we're building is that we're honest and telling you we don't have it all together. And there are some days that we come away with more questions than we have answers and you still continue to show up. So we're grateful for that. - Hot messes, three hot messes. - Three hot messes. - We're right. So we'd love to hear from you what you think and if you've got things that have worked for you coming back from a painful experience with community, we'd love to hear about it. And we'd love to pray for you if you're still looking for that community. 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