Speaker 1Welcome to the Dr. Obedovinga Day Podcast. Dr. Obed is a thought leader and apologist who speaks to life's great existential questions of origin, purpose, faith, and destiny with fluency and grace. He is an author and the president of the Christ Cosmopolitan Incorporated, a vibrant apostolic commission that heralds the message of the fullness of Christ. Dr. Obed has seen his ministry soar to great heights over several years, touching the lives of many across the globe through his various ministry platforms. May you grow in grace and the knowledge of Christ as you listen to mind-renewing and heart-enlightening messages by Dr. Obed. Do enjoy this teaching. God bless you.
Speaker 2What does it mean to be free? Free of sickness? Free of death? Free of anything of the elements? If we find that you are not free, you are not an apostle. An apostle is owing. An apostle, you are not an apostle. An apostle is free. Am I not free? That's an apostle. Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Anybody who says he's an apostle, you have to tell us when Jesus appeared to you. Encounters with Jesus are part of your apostolic mandate. And they show apostolicism. And they show apostolic succession. Then the next one, are you not my work? Anybody who says he's an apostle and doesn't have members, is not an apostle. He must have some people he has worked. People he is raising. So you can't be an apostle. You may be something else, but not an apostle. Then now he goes on to say, if I am not an apostle unto others, you doubtless, I am to you. For you are the seal. You are the seal. So every apostle. Every apostle must have a seal. An apostle may start without a seal. It is like in the hospital. When people go to the medical school, they can graduate the medical school, but they must get what? The seal of being a doctor, which is the professional what? License. And how do you show that you have a license as an apostle? By having apostolic members. If you have not done a work in the Lord, you are running. You are not jumping from one pulpit to another pulpit and claiming you are an apostle. It is in your own imagination. Maybe you just have been saints, but you have been proving the work. Every apostle must show his works. So that's how come it's funny when somebody appears on the internet and uses a big name, apostle so-so and so. I don't want to mention anybody's name, apostle so-so and so. And now when we go and see the work, he can't even when he is preaching, he can't even show the work. One of the things about an apostle is that when he is preaching, he can't even show the work. hearts is open wide the hearts is closed no it doesn't happen you touch people and you're hungry ah if you like let me say cci yes
Speaker 3pastor i want
Speaker 2fried rice some somebody will call me and say pastor please don't disgrace us please fried rice
Speaker 3you stand in check
Speaker 2to say you want fried
Speaker 3rice ah fried
Speaker 2rice please is the only fried rice you want restaurant i will add restaurant no why would you go hungry you wouldn't the work proves itself Does that mean that you will not lack? In yourself you will lack. You would have known both ways. But it is not to hold you down. That's it. Back to it. Back to it. Who go with a warfare anytime at his own charges? Who planted a vineyard and eateth not of the fruit thereof? Who feedeth a flock and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man. Or sayeth not the Lord the same also? For it is written in the law. You will not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth. That God take care of oxen. Or sayeth he altogether for our sakes. For our sakes no doubt. It is written. That he that ploweth should plow in hope. And that he that treasureth in hope should be a partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things. Isn't it a great deal if you reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you. So you see. He is not saying that. Listen. It's a disgrace for an apostle to beg his church. And to give him money. No. I beg you. I need to pay my rent. I beg you CCI. Help me to. You are not an apostle. You may be a pastor. Pastors really go through that a lot. Yes. Pastor. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. where does the shepherd sleep and lie
Speaker 3your sleep in the same area
Speaker 2you go through
Speaker 3hunger as a pastor
Speaker 2it's full of hunger I was told by the one who sold the horses to me he said that the way these horses can punish you and show you pepper you'll be shocked
Speaker 3pastoral work is full of hurt and wounds and ingratitude that same sheep who saw you were dressing would attempt to bite you when you're trying to set the bone the fractured bone of that animal just after setting it he'll kick you out of somewhere
Speaker 2the worst part is when you have done your work
Speaker 3and built your sheep and your organization to a certain point someone comes from nowhere makes certain statements and scatters the entire work destroys everything yes opa
Speaker 4I want to draw on an analogy you created when you were preaching to create clarity for me alright speaking about the denominations and how that when it comes to a structure you're looking at various people who come and go who are coming in to do certain things by way of what their specialized skill is so a plumber is coming in an electrician is coming in and then you brought in the fact that certain times certain aspects of the building would have to be destroyed in order for other things to be done now for me it's difficult to align with that why do I say so
Speaker 2I know where you're coming from okay when you have done um um USAID projects and um um what's the other one what's the other one the World Bank World Bank projects you'll be talking like the way PP is talking because before the project everything is ready but wait I'm coming but if you are building like the way the Lord Jesus is building where the the harvest is much but the laborers are few the demand is more than the resources for it that's where you realize that it comes with problems that's how come Jesus will come in the revelation of Jesus I'll let you talk but I want you to know that things go wrong in the thing called church so there are seven churches but Jesus will come in and let them know that hey I have this what's against you you see if it was a perfect system then you will not have anything against anybody so nothing will go wrong everything is going because all the resources are available and he's here himself but every work that you leave for others to do especially when you travel and you're not around you realize that you give the seven stallions and you expect that every one of them will use it as you expect some will use it some will not use it some will go and hide it and by the time you come when you're asking for your accounts they'll give you all kinds of excuses that is the reality that surrounds the church so the church as an entity and as an organism will always go through things that the Lord Jesus does not expect to be part of what is happening when he comes he will break this and break this and clean this and clean up and have it the way he wants it it does not mean that everybody is to be suspected because there will be those who are also doing according as he expects and for them you will tell them to enter into the joy of the Lord but those who don't because they have their own reasons and excuses then he's not going to handle them so the church is not going to have a perfect edification process and that is what we see finally when he planted wheat wild men slept an enemy came to sow tares and that was speaking of the church age when the woman with the dough somebody came and then placed yeast it's always been like that and the reason is because the gates of hell wants to stop what God wants to do by the church but because Jesus is the immunity of the church as Christ it will never be destroyed like the way people think the church has divine immunity we can have problems but the problem is not the vanquishing of the church the church can never be vanquished it will rather be more glorious upon glorious and messengers will come in from time to time to sound that trumpet that will bring the warriors and arouse the warriors always it will happen but when we drift then you will step in when we drift then you will step in so the utopia of architectural building where we are even looking at already assembled how do we call it prefab the church is not a prefab how do you call a building the church is being built from scratch with all manner of issues in the church and what have you and that's how come we have the church the way we have it but if you look at it with a sense of utopia then you are right that we should have problems with the church but it's not like that it's actual people who are trying to do something for God
Speaker 4ok so Hupa with this reference will that work be attributed to the work of the church why I'm saying that is that for instance not even in the sense of the availability of resources Paul calls himself a wise master builder yes wise suffolk he's skilled yes excellent so the structure going according to how it should be done is not necessarily a function of the resources available it is that whatever it is that was on the plan is adhere to strictly so that for
Speaker 2instance wait wait okay if you have to do a little bit of economics
Speaker 4help me papa can
Speaker 2somebody help you with the factors of the production in economics factors of production land land labor come come come and say it capital capital factors of production resources are not only materials yes the human agency is also a resource it's also a factor of production yes that is what i want you to get so the moment you attack it's not just the resources when you see the human capacity as part of the factors of production in economics then now it makes meaning
Speaker 4okay i only use that because of the reference you give um comparing projects that are done locally and then internationally funded ones but the point i wanted to make is that for instance and in fact today with most modern projects that are undertaken the efficiency of the project is marked by those factors yes so that probably on a basic example a plumber is going to lay pipes yes after concrete is cast he comes to come and break concrete to lay his pipes good now from the scratch if the team lead who has all the various factors in play knows good that portion for the pipes is not going to have concrete yes for so that tomorrow we will not need to destroy to place where is the team lead that's what i'm saying that if he's a wise master builder who is he paul where is he that so now that leads to the next part of the question no you have to answer my question too where paul is today yes where he says is that's where he
Speaker 2is you see yes so far have you ever done the project and traveled before and came back no i haven't mr buama let mr buama make some contribution in this wise when you're a wise master builder you're a wise master builder you're a wise master builder you're a wise master builder you're a wise master builder with all the even internationally funded projects and what have you does it always go according to plan at all i don't get fifi at all
Speaker 4can i explain before school let's
Speaker 5listen to you let's work with so many international projects you've worked on so many international projects i work with expatriate projects from major road major highways it has never happened at times the situation in fact if you are working on the road most roads as you see it as fair route firm and everything you pass there and at times you even put between and you see that there's movement over there so you come back and excavate so there's no total design project anywhere in this world at all that the fact that it has been designed and we have experts and we have whatever everybody involved it means everything works smoothly as you were sharing i was laughing that you finished the entire project and realized that ah like recently there was a project meeting and i was handling in one of the hospitals the theater is functioning everything is working and operating perfectly as i presume we went on a technical meeting and one consultant came that where we have located our air conditions where he feel like locating the theater bed he doesn't get it well so we should demolish and relook look can you imagine that the hospital function and i work on one project that when we were working on the theater it became a whole lot of fights well designed most consultants and when we are doing hospitality we call what we call like something we call flow the flow is irrespective of architectural design or expertise work the medical staff will come and everybody will share his mind that yeah though architecturally it suits you everything is all right but technically and effectively for us the technical man by their their medical personnel to operate it is not functioning better we don't like it so if you shouldn't be thinking that once it is international projects once all experts from the whole world sat and designed everything is perfect not at all the dubai the mighty structure in dubai everybody goes there to see they work they finish everything they do they finish everything they do everything technical well finished somebody came he doesn't like it the whole offices they brought everything down after it was about to be commissioned the lady and indian aspects who designed the interior facade everything he didn't sleep for almost three to four months after completing it the whole project they read off all the features and restart again so there's not anything like automatic once it is done it's
Speaker 2done so for you now it should not be a wonder that jesus will come and have a
Speaker 5problem like you were saying i don't know how to see it so i i agree with your analysis everything perfectly like you are using building structure to you know buttress your point it is perfect no matter what air conditioning for baby to down home baby credit why yes why your name flow so so it is perfect papa all right what you said and you buttress your point with projects and buildings and what have you
Speaker 2it's perfect all right back to fifi now papa so we we are seeing that there is no hundred percent efficient execution hundred percent
Speaker 4good but i don't want you to miss the point of the question all right let me listen to you i'm speaking about that's why i brought the premise of the alignment to history and then looking at the apostolic succession for the future yes now with apostolic succession now with apostolic succession for the future now with everything that is supposed to happen yes sir do you attribute alignment to mistakes or not do you get where i'm coming from i get you yes so that if you are going back into history to speak about his the historical christ with the various apostolic successions when errors happen do you still call it the lord jesus in his process good very good question thank you papa
Speaker 2now there is the blueprint and then there is a corrective process okay whenever the original architectural plans and have been drawn you don't touch it as we are going there are additions that can be added on and also submitted to the office for approval but it does not mean that we should go and tear the original and then um how do you call it submit a new one unless it was not approved now apostolic succession must be referenced and this one i'll just take you a little bit into surveying because we are into engineering and building there is the benchmark which holds the entire coordinates and the benchmark is the reference points to the alignment yet there are short points that are peerless for the various traversing as we are undertaking i hope you understand my point yes so far however for us to be able to close the entire surveying work we must go back to the benchmark coordinates that is where paul and jesus are the benchmarks so when we are talking about the historicity that is the reason why you see i could have just started my presentation from solar scriptura explained it away and now start talking against protestants start talking against pentecostals and said it's all me not necessary but the only reason why you begin to understand why what they are saying is unnecessary is because there is the historicity of jesus and paul so whatever presentation you are doing in church history if you don't go all the way to paul you are short-sighted if you don't tap jesus you have not had the benchmark of history of the church because the historicity of the church is jesus and paul then any other person can flow along i hope you get it now
Speaker 4100 perfect so
Speaker 2if you are asking where there are mistakes are there mistakes or there are no mistakes i will tell you emphatically with paul and jesus no mistakes but it is in the rest of the apostolic successions that we review their mistakes so that we don't repeat it and move and shift the entire survey work that we are doing i hope it makes sense it
Speaker 4makes perfect sense now but god bless you so much amen now about on the issue on the solace that's where the next question comes in um we are looking at a framework this five-point framework that probably took a period of about close to 200 years yes to get all of them to formulate to formulate now um at each point in time with when you spoke about the reference to salvation i actually had to go back to make a reference to a book i read um to confirm what it is that i had previously as the thought pattern all right so it now leads me to the question on paul and jesus because for me the reason why it even made sense in the first place when you started speaking about salvation looking at soteria is the fact that we are looking at soteria in that entire process from the individual being delivered his process and then the future benefits all right so that that entire spectrum of work from where he was dead in sin to his glorious liberty in christ is soteria no okay
Speaker 2the moment you hear soteria and the ecclesia that you can divide soteria to ascension okay but soteria without the ecclesia is from the birth of jesus all the way to the redemption of our glorious bodies that will now form the framework of soteria but when you hear church life then it means that the church has emerged so we are looking at not being the church to when we became the church then we cannot divide soteria into that because else everything is soteria yes yes okay so with
Speaker 4that the element of the
Speaker 2church allows us to now define the limits of the soteria because
Speaker 4of the coming in of the ecclesia yes the ecclesia perfect thank you papa god bless you and so now finally on the definition of paul especially where it comes to interpretation yes now for instance just on this simple matter of soteria yes without this clarity i would have felt that according to paul and soteria this is what it is yes but then clarity has come to me good on that definitive principles for the variegated denominations and all the various people groups that actually emerge for a lot of them based on the understanding that we have in the word of god you've given us you realize that what it is that they are actually propounding and thinking it's like paul killing people and thinking he's doing a work for god yes in the initial sense then that way in that entire construction process too for you as an individual what then comes in because of a for we have in historical perspective where people came as apostles mighty movers who probably after a certain period of time will tell you that for all these years i was seeing this it is not the case yes for me using this word loosely as a victim who saw an apostle who saw somebody in that succession pattern heeded to the words heeded to everything that period of time that i go through to get to a point where now that definition that i had thinking that it was not the case and that's why i'm telling you that it's not the case and that's why i'm telling you that it's not the case and that's why i'm telling
Speaker 2you that it's not the case and that's why i'm telling you that it's not the case and that's why i'm telling you that it's not the case and that's why i'm telling you that it's not the case and that's why i'm telling you that it's not the case and that's why i'm telling you that it's not the case and that's why i'm telling you that it's not the case and that's why i'm telling you that it's not the case and that's why i'm telling you that it's not the case you have to understand that one says he's of paul the other says he's of apollos now did any of these save you that's where you are now it is christ however we are not building paul you see so that from the foundations all through to the apex we are building paul you see so that from the foundations all through to the apex we are building paul christ but we have to know that the owner who is the client is also the building that we are putting up the
Speaker 4foundation the building and the
Speaker 2client and the plan and everything is christ so when we are talking about paul as a wise master builder we are not saying that paul is the church christ is the church and the church is christ and paul is a member of the body of christ are we together at and the church is christ are we together at and the church is christ are we together at place yes so far now from that domain of place yes so far now from that domain of place yes so far now from that domain of understanding understanding understanding you must appreciate i mean emphatically you must appreciate i mean emphatically you must appreciate i mean emphatically very very well precisely without doubt very very well precisely without doubt very very well precisely without doubt that we all that we all that we all are going through processes of growth are going through processes of growth are going through processes of growth if your pastor if your pastor if your pastor get this evolves get this evolves get this evolves to say he's realized that what he has to say he's realized that what he has to say he's realized that what he has been teaching is wrong been teaching is wrong been teaching is wrong if you have been following him well you if you have been following him well you if you have been following him well you also evolve also evolve also evolve he's not misled you he's not misled you he's not misled you you may be thinking that ah so you were you may be thinking that ah so you were you may be thinking that ah so you were misleading us no misleading us no misleading us no he himself is growing he himself is growing he himself is growing and when you understand your spiritual and when you understand your spiritual and when you understand your spiritual tribe tribe tribe then you now know which denomination you then you now know which denomination you then you now know which denomination you should belong to should belong to should belong to maybe when i'm done i'll teach on maybe when i'm done i'll teach on maybe when i'm done i'll teach on spiritual tribes and then i also come spiritual tribes and then i also come spiritual tribes and then i also come to tackle the issues of why churches are to tackle the issues of why churches are to tackle the issues of why churches are different different different because every church and denomination because every church and denomination because every church and denomination falls under the 12 tribes falls under the 12 tribes falls under the 12 tribes of that heavenly sanctum every church of that heavenly sanctum every church of that heavenly sanctum every church it doesn't matter what you are there are it doesn't matter what you are there are it doesn't matter what you are there are 12 thrones 12 thrones 12 thrones with 12 churches and that is how come with 12 churches and that is how come with 12 churches and that is how come when you read the revelation of jesus the walls of the city has three gates on the walls of the city has three gates on the walls of the city has three gates on each side each side each side talking about three denominations of the talking about three denominations of the talking about three denominations of the various cardinals various cardinals various cardinals there are three denominations three there are three denominations three there are three denominations three entrances in the east three entrances in entrances in the east three entrances in entrances in the east three entrances in the west three entrances in the north the west three entrances in the north the west three entrances in the north three entrances in the south three entrances in the south three entrances in the south this brings about denominational entries this brings about denominational entries this brings about denominational entries of growth into the kingdom of growth into the kingdom of growth into the kingdom i'm not here to deal with all the 12 i'm not here to deal with all the 12 i'm not here to deal with all the 12 tribes tribes tribes spiritually so everybody you see there is spiritually so everybody you see there is spiritually so everybody you see there is a church you cannot go to a church you cannot go to a church you cannot go to because of your spiritual tribe you because of your spiritual tribe you because of your spiritual tribe you can't sit in a certain like for me can't sit in a certain like for me can't sit in a certain like for me i was born and raised a pentecostal i was born and raised a pentecostal i was born and raised a pentecostal i moved out became a charismatic i moved out became a charismatic i moved out became a charismatic and i moved into the prophetic wave and i moved into the prophetic wave and i moved into the prophetic wave you are now able to identify that where you are now able to identify that where you are now able to identify that where you belong you belong you belong spiritually i don't know if you are spiritually i don't know if you are spiritually i don't know if you are getting what i'm saying getting what i'm saying getting what i'm saying so jesus somebody's a spiritual tribe so jesus somebody's a spiritual tribe so jesus somebody's a spiritual tribe of course jesus says that of course jesus says that of course jesus says that in the millennium there will be 12 in the millennium there will be 12 in the millennium there will be 12 thrones thrones thrones where we shall be made to sit upon and where we shall be made to sit upon and where we shall be made to sit upon and remember that remember that The new Jerusalem, prior to that, he talks about judgment was given to the saints. And they ruled and reigned with Christ. According to the 12 tribes, which will now be the entrance into the new Jerusalem. So, Fifi, the question is this. You are in the wilderness. Let's go into the church in the wilderness. The church in the wilderness, were they positioned according to tribes or they were scattered as a church? They were scattered as a church.
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