Speaker 1Welcome to the Dr. Obedovinga Day Podcast. Dr. Obed is a thought leader and apologist who speaks to life's great existential questions of origin, purpose, faith, and destiny with fluency and grace. He is an author and the president of the Christ Cosmopolitan Incorporated, a vibrant apostolic commission that heralds the message of the fullness of Christ. Dr. Obed has seen his ministry soar to great heights over several years, touching the lives of many across the globe through his various ministry platforms. May you grow in grace and the knowledge of Christ as you listen to mind-renewing and heart-enlightening messages by Dr. Obed. Do enjoy this teaching. God bless you.
Speaker 2Daddy, thank you for today's message. It got me confused, but then I'm beginning to understand. I think I'll just have to go over today's message. But then I had some two questions within the service. Before you bring up your question, what confused you? So when you started talking about apostolic succession, and I understood it, that Paul is the bonding glue between the twelve apostles and the church now. Because if we want to link what's happening now to the twelve apostles to Christ, we have to follow what Paul is doing. Or we have to follow through to see if it aligns to what Paul said we should do. Then we know that. Then we know that we are going in the right direction. Yes. So I was wondering where denominations come in. Because if we are all supposed to go in line with Paul, why are we doing different things? But then I then got to understand that he's the master, but he's the architect. So if I'm plumbing, and someone is building or fixing concrete or mixing concrete, and someone is painting, we are doing different things. But it's all in line with what the architect is saying we should do. So that was where my first confusion came from.
Speaker 3Let's go back. Okay. Confusion. What you have gotten is the case. So it's what I said to you. It didn't confuse you.
Speaker 2Yes. So that was my confusion at the beginning. Okay. Yes. So now.
Speaker 3Now let's go back to building.
Speaker 2What course did you do? Environmental science. Ah,
Speaker 3you should understand this better then. Yes. If somebody is building a house, is it just the peripherals that define the house? No, please. What more defines a house? Yes. The spatial configuration, is it? Yes. Everything. Okay. The spatial configuration, are they for the same purpose? No. That is denominations. Okay. So even money, we have denominations. Denomination is not only Churchill.
Speaker 2Even in the humankind.
Speaker 3Are we all humans? Yes. But we have denominations. Yes. Are you getting me? Yes. There are men, there are women, there are boys, there are girls, there are old men, there are old women. There are whites, blacks, Hispanics, denominations. Okay. And we are all supposed to show that beautiful color. Of what God wants to do. So there should be no denomination. You actually don't understand the dream of God. Because in the dream of God, denominations are part. Okay. Are you understanding? Yes, Papa. Okay.
Speaker 2Okay. So this brings me to the second question. So, okay, let me read it out. So the apostles, did the apostles establish clear lines of succession? Or was the transmission of authority more organic and evolving? Because if we are having 12, different apostles, churches, okay, churches now have picked on different doctrines from these 12 apostles to build their churches. No, you still don't get it.
Speaker 3You are thinking like the old stuff. We are not picking from Peter to do something for Peter. Okay. We are not picking from John. We are not. No, that's not it. The foundational apostles are down there. Okay. There is no division down there. In the house, there is no division down there. Okay. The only thing that is coming up from the down there are pillars. Defining what the structure is coming to settle. But a special configuration is what is creating denominations today. Okay. Nobody is picking from somebody to do what to. Paul has the drawing. He is the architect. What he has drawn is what we must follow so that the thing can go up. Paul has given all the special configurations and everything. So he said everybody should watch how he is building upon. So you can't come and do any other configuration apart from Paul. Okay. We are not picking from Peter or picking. No. Everything must fuse into the architect's plan. All the rest of the people, they are loaded into the architect's plan. load bearers they are in the ground they don't have design who has the design paul all the rest jesus the 12 apostles of the lamb they are all load bearers of the church that christ is building being declined so if
Speaker 2i'm understanding the denominations are coming from the different contributions to making the house an edifice good who
Speaker 3defined the denominations
Speaker 2paul giving different rules
Speaker 3okay that's it it's paul okay he has the pattern he's the one that has given us the configuration and we are all inside nobody can do anything outside once you do anything outside you are not in alignment and it is called the kingdom of god alignment alignment is the kingdom okay are you understanding yes so the church is built on the kingdom every other thing that is imagined is imagined out of the kingdom of god that is how come anytime you talk about the kingdom you have to talk about alignment it must all be fused in the pattern of the kingdom so it is paul and jesus that we must follow in the pattern of the kingdom of god that is how paul says it is the kingdom of god that is how paul says it is the kingdom of god that is how paul says it is the kingdom of god going in and out amongst us but the question now is that was for foundational apostles paul was not part so how could he then be called an apostle then he comes because listen paul was brought into serious questioning nobody was questioned like paul he had to go back in acts 15 to answer for the grace that he has received of the lord else they were never going to accept him maybe you may have to take some time off and read about the ebionites and church history there's a whole branch of people who believe that paul is a traitor and paul is the one that has come to destroy christianity i'm telling you there's a whole anything paul they don't believe that the way you see when you are here in your little sense of west african christianity that has been indoctrinated with western theology you think that all the race is new testament there are people who don't believe in the new testament they are christians they only believe in matthew mark luke john james and revelation anything pauline they remove it is they don't read it because the one that has created today's denominational problem is paul and it is true but we don't understand paul because without paul you can't stand in the judgment anybody who doesn't understand that will see it in that day you need paul to go before god in judgment without paul you're a joke because jesus christ is using paul the gospel of paul is what jesus christ is going to use to judge all the secrets of man's heart that is how come it will take paul to say you see when we say denomination if paul never said that the church has authority to decide now look at things like this paul will say that this i did not receive it from the lord jesus but i also have the spirit of god how do you think he's using the magisterium of the cali church that god has given power to men to establish canon and if you don't go in that way then there will never be any protestant um how do we call it reformation reformation because then all the nice in council and all of them must be squashed so you are shooting your own self your own foot if you know the church history you'll be shooting your own self but you see the problem is that because we don't know church history and don't understand apostolic succession history is told to the limits of where the person wants to end it to convince you but you must know beyond the history and know that the history of the church is not protestantism the history of the church is not catholicism the history of the church is jesus and paul anybody who doesn't agree on that with me he is not my friend and i don't need him as a friend he can keep his christianity i don't like his christianity the kind of christianity we have received is jesus and paul if you can't take it you are not my brother it is Jesus and Paul Jesus and Paul as simple as that and once we understand Jesus and Paul we understand Sabbatarius is because of Paul Paul is the one that has brought all of this let's worship Saturday don't worship on Saturday let's worship on Sunday if one sees a day better than another let him have it it is Paul all of the confusion cover your head don't cover your head you will see it is from Paul if you go into the Bible and look at denominations what has divided us the one that has created the division is Paul but it is not a bad thing it is the special configurations within the church we cannot I am saying we cannot all be the kitchen so Paul will say he set everything together then this one will hold this one this one the Bible is saying we must not worship on Sunday we must worship on Saturday we must worship in the spirit we must not go to Jerusalem it is only in the spirit then Paul will go to Jerusalem we must not do any Judaism then Paul will cut his head and circumcise people it is circumcision of the spirit then Paul will take Timothy cut his Paul then you see Paul said over here it is grace it is not grace it is by works Calvinism and Nazism the problem is Paul if like take listen remove all the Pauline epistles leave Jesus and leave the book of Revelation we will never have any denomination again if you like go around and look at what churches agree on what churches disagree on the one who created that problem which is not a problem but an actual configuration is Paul and he is listening to me now and you know he knows he caused a problem but it is not a problem it is we who think it is a problem now look at look at something like this watch this look at this guy these signs shall follow all them that believe in my name they will speak in other tongues case closed isn't it okay then Paul will come and say that tongue speaking is for it's a sign to the world and that it is not for believers then now you turn around and come and say that I speak in tongues more than all of you Paul here to wait for that December ball so Peter he said this guy his teachings are hard because today he is saying this then tomorrow he will say this then the next day he will say this but you must see the vision the vision is Christ if you can see Christ in all the things you call denomination you won't be averse to any denomination you won't be averse to any denomination now question is this Paul will say be not drunk with wine wearing in excess but be being filled with the spirit then you turn and say Timothy I'm telling you I'm telling you - Paul will we have only one Christianity - Paul will we have only one Christianity - Paul will we have only one Christianity it's true it's true it's true when you remove Paul we have only one when you remove Paul we have only one when you remove Paul we have only one Christianity that Christianity will be Christianity that Christianity will be Christianity that Christianity will be the physical life of Jesus and the the physical life of Jesus and the the physical life of Jesus and the revelation we don't know revelation we don't know revelation we don't know that's all and we can never live the that's all and we can never live the that's all and we can never live the church life church life church life so who introduced the church as an so who introduced the church as an so who introduced the church as an organism the crystallization of the church Paul the crystallization of the church Paul the crystallization of the church Paul he's follow he's the reason behind all he's follow he's the reason behind all he's follow he's the reason behind all of these things of these things of these things and that's how come he told us I am the and that's how come he told us I am the and that's how come he told us I am the wise master builder be careful how you wise master builder be careful how you wise master builder be careful how you are building are building are building so the reason is that people don't so the reason is that people don't so the reason is that people don't understand Paul totally say so that in understand Paul totally say so that in understand Paul totally say so that in your reading you will understand my your reading you will understand my your reading you will understand my understanding understanding your understanding which I have in Christ Paul which I have in Christ Paul which I have in Christ Paul if you don't want a problem don't read if you don't want a problem don't read if you don't want a problem don't read Paul if you don't read Paul you will also Paul if you don't read Paul you will also Paul if you don't read Paul you will also not pass the judgment exams it's true if you don't want a degree don't it's true if you don't want a degree don't it's true if you don't want a degree don't go to the university go to the university go to the university if you don't go to the university you if you don't go to the university you if you don't go to the university you won't get a degree so what won't get a degree so what won't get a degree so what and you've been asking kindness and you've been asking kindness and you've been asking kindness near your brother your own son copy him near your brother your own son copy him near your brother your own son copy him that that that or not not the thousand years about this or not not the thousand years about this or not not the thousand years about this yes
Speaker 4it's a phone then we'll all continue listen pastor
Speaker 3then we'll all continue listen pastor then we'll all continue listen pastor david can you imagine please listen jesus he left the church for 2 000 years jesus he left the church for 2 000 years jesus he left the church for 2 000 years and we have done we have and we have done we have and we have done we have said so many things he comes back to fix said so many things he comes back to fix said so many things he comes back to fix it it it and he takes a thousand years to fix and he takes a thousand years to fix and he takes a thousand years to fix two thousand years problem two thousand years problem
Speaker 4two thousand years problem yeah destroy everything that should let
Speaker 3yeah destroy everything that should let yeah destroy everything that should let you know that we have serious you know that we have serious you know that we have serious work work work you move here for me
Speaker 4you move here for me
Speaker 3you move here for me i've missed
Speaker 4the mark yet i've missed the mark let's continue in our era i've missed the mark let's continue in our era
Speaker 3do you know do you know what is do you know do you know what is do you know do you know what is what what is amusing me what what is amusing me what what is amusing me mr mama mr mama mr mama oh wait oh wait oh wait in your problem
Speaker 4in your problem in your problem in your problem
Speaker 3in your problem
Speaker 4in your problem this is called denominationalism forget this is called denominationalism forget this is called denominationalism forget about these people who think they have about these people who think they have about these people who think they have degrees degrees degrees listen to me i have the master plan i
Speaker 3listen to me i have the master plan i listen to me i have the master plan i remember remember remember we went for one meeting there was one we went for one meeting there was one we went for one meeting there was one man
Speaker 4man man leave this place get out of here a
Speaker 3leave this place get out of here a leave this place get out of here
Speaker 4a friend that called me friend that called me friend that called me this meeting again he was a quantity
Speaker 3this meeting again he was a quantity this meeting again he was a quantity surveyor surveyor surveyor but the project manager when he was when he was crying that is how jesus will suck a lot of that is how jesus will suck a lot of that is how jesus will suck a lot of people one jesus is not here did you say communion is nothing
Speaker 4give him communion for him to take give him communion for him to take give him communion for him to take
Speaker 3no this is unclean
Speaker 4and jesus won't strike that oil a gallon and jesus won't strike that oil a gallon and jesus won't strike that oil a gallon of oil be emptied on your hair
Speaker 3of oil be emptied on your hair of oil be emptied on your hair hey so for bed
Speaker 4hey so for bed
Speaker 3hey so for bed come here yes sir
Speaker 4come here yes sir come here yes sir what did you say about planting
Speaker 3what did you say about planting yes sir yes sir yes sir yes sir yes sir yes sir yes sir we are men he is not
Speaker 4what did you say happens to you when you what did you say happens to you when you what did you say happens to you when you smoke cinnamon
Speaker 3smoke cinnamon smoke cinnamon
Speaker 4my lord when i smoke it i become like the my lord when i smoke it i become like the
Speaker 3my lord when i smoke it i become like the most high most high most high most high cinnamon
Speaker 4cinnamon cinnamon all of you follow the man obed go and all of you follow the man obed go and
Speaker 3all of you follow the man obed go and smoke
Speaker 4smoke smoke what what were you expecting me to say what what were you expecting me to say
Speaker 3what what were you expecting me to say we are seven you know every new call we are seven you know every new call we are seven you know every new call cinnamon
Speaker 4cinnamon cinnamon and the lord in the millennium the and the lord in the millennium the and the lord in the millennium the thousand rain would have given thousand rain would have given thousand rain would have given instructions to all nations of the instructions to all nations of the instructions to all nations of the world all nations listen to my dear son world all nations listen to my dear son world all nations listen to my dear son obert what he said about smoking cinnamon obert what he said about smoking cinnamon obert what he said about smoking cinnamon from today every morning after from today every morning after from today every morning after brushing
Speaker 3your teeth smoke cinnamon
Speaker 4if the lord says who are you does that if the lord says who are you does that if the lord says who are you does that mean that
Speaker 3mean that mean that we are wrong no we also have the spirit we are wrong no we also have the spirit we are wrong no we also have the spirit of christ and we are doing what we know he's told and we are doing what we know he's told and we are doing what we know he's told us to do us to do us to do but in the end all work will be passed but in the end all work will be passed but in the end all work will be passed through what fire fire through what fire fire through what fire fire through what fire fire to reveal the salt that's it i'll be to reveal the salt that's it i'll be
Speaker 2to reveal the salt that's it i'll be okay now yes pastor all right thank you okay now yes pastor all right thank you okay now yes pastor all right thank you so much you're welcome you're welcome
Speaker 3so much you're welcome you're welcome so much you're welcome you're welcome celebrated
Speaker 5thank you god bless you so much for the thank you god bless you so much for the thank you god bless you so much for the message today message today message today i think as i was sitting a lot of things i think as i was sitting a lot of things i think as i was sitting a lot of things were aligning were aligning were aligning then even as you kept on explaining then even as you kept on explaining then even as you kept on explaining these questions and i begin to think of these questions and i begin to think of these questions and i begin to think of even looking at paul as a person coming even looking at paul as a person coming even looking at paul as a person coming from judaism from judaism from judaism and now into christianity and now into christianity and now into christianity no one he can say is that say that i am no one he can say is that say that i am no one he can say is that say that i am the master the master the master wise builder the wise master wise builder the wise master wise builder the wise master the wise master builder because he has the wise master builder because he has the wise master builder because he has even the history from judaism the of Christ and even into the revelation so that makes a lot of sense to me my question is actually on Matthew 16 verse 18 carry on usually when I read that by that verse of Scripture what comes to mind basically I think of you are the rock upon this rock shall I build my church I am usually tempted to believe that he was talking to Peter no yes because maybe because I'm Peter and I think I think but today as you were teaching and you were talking about the foundations it became clearer but I still wanted to clarify whether my perspective that he was talking about Peter was correct or it is totally wrong
Speaker 3Peter is Petros yes the rock is Petra so so so so A rock is Christ so Peter was not the rock the Bible said a rock followed them and it is Paul who now clarifies the rock he was talking about and said the rock is Christ no beating around the bush the Petra is Christ so the rock has Peter is a stone that is going to be placed on the rock so the Petrus is placed on the Petra so Peter was one of the building stones, that is how come he is the one who says that and you being lively stones are built up it is Peter who gives us that revelation because he understood that he himself he is a living stone so it is not upon Peter that the church is built it is Christ upon which the church is built but the first person that was placed on that rock was Peter why? because he is the one that first declared the revelation of Christ that you are the Christ and the Bible says upon this revelation that came out of your mouth I will build my church, I hope you get it
Speaker 5very very this is so settling because if you get back to the Catholics I know right it is one of the major things that they teach and that is the power of the Pope let me help you
Speaker 3Peter is not the rock but he is the first that got the keys in apostolic succession you see what the Catholics teach is so rich rich that to understand them they are not vain pastors the Catholics are preachers and priests that have gone to seminary for 12 some 20 years so you can't sit in the church when you are just opening your Bible and judge a Catholic priest at least he is knowledgeable in what he is saying so when a Catholic is saying that Peter by way of apostolic succession comes after Christ they are right whatever he is using to justify it the principle of the rightness is true because when Jesus was gone the means by which he came as the Holy Spirit who opened and adorned the church Peter he did it at Pentecost he was the one who preached 3000 souls were saved he used the keys and now he went straight to the Gentiles to the house of Cornelius and opened the church also over there so if there was anybody that was amongst the foundational apostles the one that stood tall it was Peter but for your information whether Peter or not there are 12 apostles and Peter is part of the 12 apostles the arrangement is not like this that's how come this this arrangement watch this the arrangement is not rock Peter rock 12 apostles if it's like this it will be a problem because Peter can be here and be here do you understand? yes master this rock is Christ so that Peter is here yes master and you can't also do it like this rock Petrus 11 apostles and then Paul you can't do it like that it's not like that according to apostolic succession and that's how come I showed you that Jesus himself was an apostle the rock apostle the 12 apostles yes so and then the Pauline apostle from which the wall is going up by various denominations yes master I hope you get it
Speaker 5yes so just staying on this very point can we assume that you are making the analogy of the different actors let's say in building can we say that the 12 apostles can be likened to the geologists yes that's right to assume it's not assuming
Speaker 3you are right the 12 apostles they are doing the work of the geologists ensuring that the sand I said that they are all parts of the load bearing load bearers yes in the building I hope you get it
Speaker 5yes master yeah alright God bless you so much you're welcome beautiful
Speaker 3celebrating shalom daddy
Speaker 6shalom church shalom daddy please your preaching was so nice
Speaker 3I give God praise I'm trying as a labor apostle we are all trying talk to me what's your question
Speaker 6daddy daddy please please healing the sick is it part of the apostolic mission
Speaker 3carry on ask all your questions
Speaker 6yes and also please invoking godly spirits that are my only questions
Speaker 3ok anything that Paul did when you also do it it's apostolic secession anything that Jesus did it's apostolic secession as the father has sent me even so sent I you when you go preach the gospel of the kingdom heal the sick apostolic secession Peter came preach the kingdom heal the sick we are also preaching the kingdom healing the sick apostolic secession so denominations and what have you everybody should stay within the alignment for the edification as simple as that
Speaker 6please take a seat yes thank you
Speaker 7shalom papa shalom church papa god bless you so much for today's message amen I have a number of questions online but first I want to ask two questions
Speaker 3alright now papa
Speaker 7we are looking at Jesus as the foundation yes as the rock foundation as the rock foundation now the our faith as Christianity you made us understand has the historicity historical perspective and the apostolic perspective yes but in all of this Jesus is the rock foundation yes now the at a particular point in time the apostolic secession may or may not become a historical alignment point if it goes bizarre yes now for an individual in the church then what becomes his mode of identification of what to say we are aligning with now I get the Paul and Jesus analogy alright perfectly as the defining point however today many of the things that church history refers to the fathers that we accustom and give that kind of right and then acknowledgement as people who were prominent in church history with my present understanding of Paul today I realized that some of those tenets were not entirely the case but then in church referencing its history we look at these figures as prominent parts of that building so that at that time probably an individual in the church would have seen this person as an apostle for succession so what then becomes the defining principle for me as an individual looking at that today very good question you
Speaker 3have answered your own question in your
Speaker 7own question okay papa
Speaker 3that's how come from the beginning i said it is paul and jesus whoever and if you even had my introduction i said according to the historical aspect of christianity nobody is anybody apart
Speaker 7from paul and jesus
Speaker 3as simple as that so we are not using age present day age or the historical iranians running down all the way through the primordial brethren d.l moody mentioned all from watchman knee mentioned e.w kenyon kenneth hagan all of these things are wonderful libraries
Speaker 7good now now
Speaker 3back to help you so you have seen historicity let me still help you with the historical christ and apostolic christ okay the historical christ has a beginning and an end the apostolic christ has a beginning and is yet to end do you understand that the historical christ has a beginning and an end he was born okay the individual
Speaker 7jesus christ the historical christ all
Speaker 3right jesus historical christ he was born he lived he died he ascended into heaven historically that's history but the apostolic christ who was sent by god as an apostle he was born he died he ascended into heaven into this world by birth went to the realm of death ascended into heaven seated at the right hand of god we are still to look up to him as the apostle and high priest of our confession who is seated on the right hand of god doing his mediatorial work until the age of the kingdom when he would appear and run his thousand year millennial reign and have his wife so the apostolic christ has only a beginning and is yet to end but the historical christ has a beginning and has ended so that his body now feels the portion of the present history that is being made in the divine construct or in that continuum i hope you get it perfect so now as an individual how do you know what to give yourself to and what to receive he said you have tried them that say they are apostles and i found them as liars why who showed us how to mark apostles it is paul without paul you can't make an apostle because if you go back into the red letter gospels of jesus christ how do you know who an apostle is you don't even know what the timing he prayed and he chose them and sent them we don't even know what he spoke to them in private but now he takes paul he said am i not an apostle have i not seen jesus are you not the seal of my apostleship he said am i not an apostle am i not free have i not seen jesus christ our lord i'm not seeing my work in the lord then he goes on further and then he says if i be not an apostle unto others yea doubtless i am to you for the seal of my apostleship are you in the lord carry on my answer to them did you see this yes so far that examine me is this have we no power to eat and to drink listen this matter when i want to go into it i always tell people that if you want to know who an apostle is an apostle is not somebody who is struggling to eat and to drink and it is true when jesus sent the apostles even when they didn't have money in their pockets they never struggled to eat or drink if you see anybody who claims he's an apostle and he's struggling to find his daily meal he's not an apostle he's not listen there are ways by which we examine apostles number one are you free what does it mean to be free free of sickness free of death free anything of the elements if we find that you are not free you are not an apostle thanks
Speaker 1so much for listening we trust that you've been blessed with truth for life be sure to subscribe to the dr obeda being a day podcast to receive new messages every week until next time remain blessed shalom Bye.
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