Christopher Abbott

>> Will X-Men be better than Craven the Hunter? Can you guarantee me that? >> I will guarantee you that. >> At least me, at least from my own anatomy. >> Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused, begins. >> Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, sad, confused today on the show. Christopher Abbott is here. He's starring in East of Eden and he's just being cast in the next X-Men film as Professor X. There's lots to discuss in this one. Remember guys, if you enjoy what I do, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happy, sad, confused, early access to every single episode of the podcast. You can ask questions of our guests. You can get access to our live events, all that and more on our Patreon. Check it out. If you like what I do, support us over there. Okay, let's talk about the main event. Christopher Abbott's been on the list for a while. He was Tony nominated this past year for his role in Death of a Salesman. He's been killing it in independent film, like James White. He of course, really came to the floor, I think, and girls about a decade ago. And especially in recent years, though, has really cemented his role as kind of a character actor, leading man. He can bounce between independent film and blockbusters. And he's really at an interesting point in his life and career right now, and I'm so thrilled. We got him at this precise moment because East of Eden is an epic, giant telling of the classic John Steinbeck novel. He's fantastic in it, but also to get him right when he's just had a kid. He's just been cast in X-Men, tons to talk about. And a guy that I feel like seeing in other interviews maybe projects a serious vibe, and while there is that in this conversation, also kind of a goofball, very funny in this conversation. So I think you'll see a different side of Christopher Abbott here, and I'm so thrilled. He chose to reveal it on Happy Sac Confused today. So without any further ado, here it is me and Christopher Abbott, enjoy. It's been a long time coming. Christopher Abbott. No. You're not be sad, confused. Yeah, I am finally here. Thank you for doing this, man. You don't see my eye twitching, do you? See, your whole body is just vibrating. Yeah. Are you nervous? You should have been. No, no, no, no, no, I feel great. I'm not nervous at all. I've just, I want to be nervous. It's just been lack of sleep. I'm a lot going on now. Yeah, so don't zoom in on my left eye. Zoom in. I have bad news for you. What's up? You might be peaking. This is peak Christopher Abbott this year. Let's let's take it. Is it downhill? I'm not saying, I'm not saying that. I, that's how I feel anyway about it. It's always going to be downhill. Yeah, yeah. Let's take stock for a second. I don't like when things go well. Then you must be miserable right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you turned the big four row congratulations. That's right. That's who you got nominated for a Tony Yeah, he became a dad. Yeah, your professor X. Yeah, and the next one a championship Like that. How would you rank those accomplishments of the boy? I got to put dead first, then nicks, just because I've been waiting, you know, I've been a nicks fan my whole life, you know, so I've been waiting for that the longest because I didn't want to be necessarily being an actor when I was a kid so I can't say I've been waiting to get nominated for a Tony. Did you want to be a basketball player? And my cynical nature goes I didn't win, so you know, you can't really celebrate that too hard, can you? Do you have the speech ready in case? I don't need to hold this, right? No, but if it feels like it's your security blanket, speaking of it, I feel like I'm doing like an O-G-N-O-B thing. No, you know what I mean? There's a towel day, a nice guy that doesn't know how to. Yeah. Well, I feel like it's going to float away. I don't know. It's there for you. All right, it's there. I'm not going to touch it. Did you have a Tony award speech ready? Super superstitious, just in case. I had, I had not, not written, but I had a sort of points I was going to hit. It wasn't going to be that long, you know, but it was funny. Like I had never been, I mean, I've been like nominated for things before, but I had this feeling where I was like right before it happened, you know, you get that six cents where you're like, oh, I'm going to win. Right, right, right. And then I got really anxious and nervous. And then I didn't. And then it was this weird relief and adrenaline dump because I immediately got a headache. I got, I immediately got a headache, was exhausted and I had to poop. That's like, so after I didn't win, that was the, those are the three feelings I had and I want it. And then I wanted to leave. It was just adrenaline dump. So the famous post Tony poop that people always talk about, like as soon as you lose, you have a good poop. To secret. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In a, in a tux. Just poop your pants. For the record, he came in talking poop and we're still talking poop. I farted. Just now or no, no, no, right after that's what, that's what happened. I saved it, but I got a headache and I farted when I didn't win. That's what happened. Is this Chris for a brain on having a toddler of having a little kid around the house? Yeah, I'm tired all the time. Yeah. But no, this is kind of how, I'm, I'm relaxed and I'm comfortable. So this is, this is what you, you get from me. Was the, this is perfect. It was all you get. Was the, I don't need any thoughtfulness I want, I want poop talk. Yeah. Was, was, was your 30th year as a momentous as your 40th year, do you remember what your life was like? No, I don't remember. Doing the math. It was probably. My recall is also terrible. So this is going to go great. You know, we shot East of Eden, just to jump ahead, we shot East of Eden two years ago. Oh, no. I, there's, it's all, it's all a, a watch. All you need to know is it's very funny. It's the, it's stay for the world. I think it's hilarious. No, but I, but my, you know, I remember, obviously, remember my 40th because that was more recent. I don't remember what, what I did on my 30th birthday. But yeah, so it's, it's, it's, it was really, I had a, a surprise party for my 40th, which was really, I never had that and I, because I don't want it. And most of my friends, no, I don't, I don't want it, but it was, it was, it was beautiful. It was really sweet because I mean, you, you, you know, you forget that people like you and they show up. You forgot? Well, I think it's human nature, you know what I mean? People get so sort of busy and caught up with, with their lives and it's not, I know my friends love me, but it was, it's, it's, it's a weird thing to sort of see them all in one room. I feel like, you know, again, my, my brain goes cynical and dark. So you'll, you'll almost feel like it's a, almost felt like it was like a funeral. You know, it was really, it was something I should know guys, like, it was a living funeral, you know, and I mean, because you're like, all these people that, you know, like, you know, like, oh, my God, you know, but they're just in a restaurant. So it is interesting because you've had all these occasions this year to be kind of like forced reflection on somebody that like, yeah, you know, like turning a, a big age. Midlife crisis. Yeah. All these midlife things. Yeah. All these things are like occasions to be like, oh, like, where am I in my personal and professional life? Yeah. Yeah. And it sounds like your, your, your brain can be your worst enemy like just like spiraling a little bit on, on that kind of stuff, or, or you, yeah, but my brain, my brain can sort of spiral on more big picture stuff, you know, I mean, I know we're joking around about the Tony thing before, but you know, I think by now, at least in my work, I sort of worked long enough and feel like I've been around and have met and kept really good friends within the business. So I feel sort of comfortable with work in terms of like, I know, it comes and it goes. It's, you know, even the, the highs, you like, the highs are going to dip down eventually then you'll, you know, so I'm, I've gotten more comfortable with that, you know, but, you know, the, having a kid, uh, 40, getting older, like the bigger existential things, sort of, uh, or, uh, way, way a little bit more. Do you feel like from a career perspective, you're, are you as ambitious now as you were at, at 20 or 30, like what do, what does ambition look like for you now? It's, it's, it's not more, it's, it's different, you know what I mean? It's different. I feel, um, you know, when I, when I started out in New York and, and mostly in theater, you know, that I, I'm reflecting on it, I, I thank God for my, uh, naivete at the time, you know, and also the landscape is completely different now, you know, even just like auditioning or like sort of pounding the pavement, like I did back then of like going, showing, just showing up to auditions I wasn't asked to be at or, you know, so that's even different. So, um, I had, because of my naivete nature at the time, I had a lot of ambition because I didn't know, uh, you know, I, uh, if I knew, then what I knew now, I probably would have gave up sooner. Right. Didn't realize how the odds were. No. At the time, I felt like any day, I'm like, any day, I'm going to make it, you know what I mean? Like just one audition. That's all it takes. You know what I mean? Just one good audition. But now, you know, so it's, but I think that gave me something. It was about doing the math pro, 20 years ago when you moved here to the city, right? In 2006, I moved here. Yeah. Yeah. So you, you grew up in Connecticut. You moved here. Yeah. And you're immediately, is it theater auditions immediately? Are you going for TV's and commercial stuff? Um, I grew, yeah, growing Connecticut, I was going to community college at the time. Yeah. Um, I didn't grow up rich. I would just feel like that's still a chip on my shoulder, because people, I think people assume. Connecticut, this guy. You, you assume. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I wasn't dirt poor, obviously. But, but, you know, I, I just felt like I needed to sit down, um, but I was going to community college. This is a therapy session. I mean, it kind of feels like what? I mean, that's what podcasts are basically, right? I mean, they become, yeah, you know, it's just a cheaper way to do it. Yeah. It is much cheaper. Um, uh, I was going to community college, I took my first, like, class in community college in Connecticut. And that's why I sort of learned that, uh, uh, uh, yeah. Oh, I like A, I like this and B, I think I'm pretty good. It was a little bit big fish small pond scenario, but then quickly went to HB Studio, New York, which is this little, like you can take as many classes as you want, which was good and it was cheap, which is part of the reason why I went, but it was also really great school. I had great teachers. And then yeah, I mean, just hustling around, like I was starting to, you know, I would audition for plays. I remember I auditioned for a play Spanish fly, which is a classic play, but it was in the back of a bar in Queens. And they were like, it was so thinking back on it now, it's just been, yeah, it's been a wild, it's been a very long wild ride. - Did you have kind of a crew of actors, you kind of came of age with, do you feel like? - Well, yeah, I mean, like, so, you know, I'll sit, like Mona Fastfold, who's a director, who I've worked with now multiple times. She was one of my first friends. I met her in school. She was acting at the time before Brady. - Yeah, I like did a, yeah, I knew her before Brady. She was one of my first friends in school. My friend Michael, episode, actor, he's in Germany, but so those are my first, like, you know, and that's sort of a beautiful long story, 'cause Mona's obviously stopped acting, but she's gone out to have like a great directing career. That's why we worked together all the time. And then over the years, yeah, you know, it's like, when I, you know, I met like, it's tons of people, Sam Rockwell, I did Williamstown with, and he's stayed and remained a good friend. Yeah, it's just sort of, you pick up people along the way. Lucy Thurbers, a playwright, she was like, one of the first people that sort of gave me any opportunity, you know, like, to do a reading of a play. - Yeah, so it's just, thinking back on it now. It's just so many, so many chapters. - Well, that's the fun thing that you were saying about your 40th is like, you kind of like realize all the way, you kind of collect all these people, you meet them at different points. - Yeah. - Your life and career, and I feel like New York, I feel like, I know you're able to do that in other cities, but there's a special quality to it here. I may be because of theater, you know, or you just run into people easier. I don't know. - Did you ever have to want to do the LA thing or no? - I didn't have to, I didn't feel like I had to. I've done it in, you know, in the old school way, like I would go out there for like pilot, you know, seasons and stuff like that. And that was, I preferred, I did it here too, I preferred it here. I didn't like driving around and it was just too much. So, no, I never, I like LA, I like visiting and I have friends there, but I never wanted to live there. (upbeat music) - More happy, second views coming up. - From the parents behind law and order, comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Picklebottom, everyday mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick Picklebottom, a precocious 11 year old with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to solve mysteries. 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So every week we break down the twists, red herrings and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night. It's high drama, cozy vibes and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts and let's solve this thing together. (upbeat music) - So you were kind of, I mean it's just to say you, when you look at your own ambitions as an actor, kind of a late bloomer like you didn't really even contemplate acting until you're close to 20. - I think comparatively to other actors a little later. Like 20 years old, yeah, 1920. - Were you consuming film and theater TV like any other kid or in a more aggressive way? - Movies, I was consuming a lot, you know, all growing. I watch movies all the time, I watch movies my parents, my uncle took me to movies all the time. That was the thing we did. And then when I was one of my first jobs, while I was in high school, I worked at a video store, which is a moot or obsolete now. But I mean, I would just, I would watch movies at work and I would bring movies home. And we were, there was two video stores in our town, there was a video hut, it was called, and there was a blockbuster. And we had like, we were the smaller sort of family run, not my family, but a family run business. And you know, we had a pretty good like, foreign film section as-- - Yeah, this is a video hut, obviously not blockbuster. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, comparing it to blockbuster, which had, you know, so I sort of got a good education, 'cause we had more obscure things. - 'Cause I've heard you talk about like, Casabete's being kind of a big influence those films, but I mean, I would imagine like, no 12 year old is like watching Casabete's. Maybe that comes a little bit into your teenage years, like were you kind of combining high-brow low-brow, were you watching all of like the big blockbuster stuff as well as-- - Everything, yeah, yeah, yeah. - 'Cause my taste has sort of, it can sound almost pretentious, sometimes, but then the movies I reference as my favorites have often been like, well, they're still good movies, but not, you know, I reference Mrs. Doubtfire all the time as one of my favorites. But, you know, and it feels like a joke, but it's such a good script, and it's such a, it's like one of the best movies about divorce. - Yeah. - And talk about a committed performance. - It's so good, and so, and it still gets me. Like, when I watched it, I rewatched it, you know, I watched movies before to fall asleep often. I was doing press in London, and I was trying to fall asleep, and I just put on Mrs. Doubtfire. But it's, and it still gets me. - Yeah, it really does. - It really does. - The drive-by fruiting, the run-by fruiting, what's the line? - Yeah, oh yeah. - It's in the accent. Yeah, when she throws the line at his head. But that's the, what a great, you know, watching that movie as a kid and then, and loving it for the, whatever comedy and moments then. And now, it's all the little sides that Robin, that I'm picking up as an, you know, that are the funniest things to me. It's the little sides that he does and that are really good. - It's funny because I do think, I mean, I don't know how aware you are of like your place in the universe or what people perceive of you. I think you're perceived as a serious, a very serious dude. Do you think that's, I think that's fair. I mean, just because of like the work I do, and I'm not a, you know, I'm not really on social media or anything, so I don't put myself out there that much. But I think, you know, it's sort of on purpose. - Yeah, but I mean, even like the choices you made, like especially in that first kind of, or, you know, you're not making choices at the first five years of your career run. - No. - You're taking anything you can get. So maybe part of it is luck. But like, the first 10, 15 years of your career, it's like, there seems to be like an aesthetic that you're drawn to, a type of film. And that unfair, consciously running away from Hollywood stuff or not. - No, no, because I like big movies, you know what I mean? It's just, it's so, I like to think I've, you know, you can only do so much curation. - Yeah. - You know, and then so much of it is, you know, I'm so dependent on other people and timing and job. So you try to curate within, within happenstance, you know? - So the big markers, which we should have went in, and obviously we'll get to East of Eden, but I want to hit some of the major ones. I mean, like, like can I say one thing? - Yeah. - Is like even in the serious roles or whatever. Like I always try to, like, you know, maybe other people don't think it's funny, but sometimes I think, like I always try to infuse some humor, even in the darkest stuff. - Is there, should I re-watch East of Eden? What's the humor I should look for in that? - I think there is some funny things in it. - Let's talk about East of Eden. So this is, this is an ambitious piece of work. This is Zoey Kazan interpreting this, obviously, classic Steinbeck novel, 1952 novel. This is, these are big shoes to fill for everybody. Seven parts you, Mike Feist, great for its pew. Talk to me, is this like, did you know Zoey? Like just being in New York, was she a contemporary friend? - I'm getting self-conscious of how I'm sitting. Do I look like I'm sliding down? - I'll slide down with you. - Oh, I'm looking really, let me drop up a little bit. Okay, there we go. - The posture, talking about a weighty work. - This is a proper interview here, let me get set. - This is the important stuff. - Zoey, yeah, Zoey, I've known for a while through like, you know, New York theater world, and we have a lot of mutual friends, but this is the first time we work together, but you know, I'd seen plays that she's acted in, plays that she's written. So, I mean, I knew, before I even read it, I knew it was gonna be well written. I think she's a fantastic writer. - So does this come directly from her or is this three initials? - Okay, so she hits you up, says, take a look at this, Florence is maybe already involved. - Florence is already involved. I think she was the only one involved at the time. You know, when I've told this sort of anecdote before but I was I was I've sort of typecasted myself a little bit and I thought she wanted me to play Charles the brother right you know just because I think the series of roles that I had done for you know three three years sort of felt more right and so but then she sort of she explained why she wanted me to play Adam and and I thought she she's better at explaining this but this sort of like masculine feminine thing of like how one presents as and very like sort of young in explanation and I just thought and I was so game because you know it was it was going to be a challenge and I knew you know a lot of actors say that but it really was it was it was gratifying because of how difficult the role is I mean the role sort of spans 20 something years you know you saw you family saw go yeah he changes it's epic it's just like a real epic journey that you have to you know that the technical thing as an actor where you have to really measure out the the arc you know because it's a it's a it's a slow arc slow big arc are you shooting in sequence or you know no no that that too you know so you have to just kind of keep track of that so that that I mean not not say it's the main job but it's a very key part of the algorithm I would imagine it's like in your script like knowing where am I what happened right before what after like just really measuring it is it is because you know when you get you know when you get to it on the day it's sometimes it would be easier to sort of swing for the fences every scene right you know and make every scene its own little movie and you have to sort of make sure you don't you know you can't sort of blow your wand on every on every little thing you can't hit a home run on every little thing it's something you got a bunch sometimes you have to hit a single you know so it comes with age two is like knowing like because when you're a kid when you're a young actor you wanted to show off you want to show everything you can do it every scene no yeah knowing like the right tool for the right job exactly and that that takes that's like going to school and like these are the skills that you learn I think I think you know people have sort of inherent talent but this is where you can sort you know go where I appreciate going like theater school because you know how to you learn how to do this stuff you know how to use your toolbox where are you out now with I mean I've seen all seven episodes it's great have you watched this all I have yeah but not in a while yeah yeah so you're able to watch it you're able to kind of appreciate it because it's big it's not just you obviously there's an ensemble here so you can kind of like take yourself out of it a little bit yeah I've got that's another thing as I've gotten older I've gotten better at you know I used to like oh I can't watch myself for you know and you know I still TV is funny in that way because you know movies are a little bit easier because you can like go to the screening and celebrate it with people and we will you know for this we'll have a screening of premiere of like the first two episodes and I'll watch that but TV always found a little bit harder to watch yourself yeah because it's weird it's a little weird to do it by yourself because you're just like by yourself and that's odd and then I also feel strange about like inviting people over to to watch it you know it's at least out of movie thing everyone can just go and whatever yeah so this is how it imagines a pretty extensive shoot just in terms of length of time this is shots and you shot this wearing New Zealand yeah yeah which you know it's just funny because it's such an American novel and the landscape is so specific it's another character you know this the Salinas and and California at the time but the the landscape in New Zealand for that especially for the time period was like pitch perfect you know by the way I want to throw out another actor who I'm always impressed by yeah Kirin Heinz oh my god I love him he's so good oh he's one of these guys that like people know I guess by now but he he should get more props for the career he said what he what he brings yeah and he has gotten you know at least like actor actor actor actor stuff you know but he I mean I was looking forward to working with I mean this cast is pretty incredible yeah but he's someone I've admired from afar for a long time so I was so I was so excited to work with him all right so let's backtrack yeah this is your life for you Christopher Abbott okay so I mean you're gonna tell me what happened to my life I'm gonna tell you what happened so you were in a nurse Jackie episode oh yeah that was my first I think that was my first TV thing a little lawn order that's a right-of-passage at New York classic New York one lawn order credit I mean some guys have like six different lawn orders not just being about blowing your wad I think I did that for that lawn order I think I was a goth I talk about a skeleton then closet I play like some goth it's I was the one who the audience would think it was the killer the obvious you know I think whatever I think I was like choking up my girlfriend against offense a chain link in goth make up you know it but I wasn't actually the killer yeah it was um that was and I think well what that was lawn order criminal intent and I like to think I think the season I think they stopped doing that after my either my episode or that season they they cut off criminal meeting did you see the goth I was we need to like end this entire show I think yeah wow I think so I'll have to just I blame I blame it on me wow yeah tick wolf has a gripe with you yeah more happy second views coming up I'm Ann Foster and I have never watched the show Spartacus blood and sand and I'm Gina Berry and I've watched this show numerous times on our new podcast never TV we discussed TV shows and movies set in ancient history the season we are discussing Spartacus blood and sand follow never TV that's an E F E R TV wherever you get your podcasts hey I'm Ashley host of Crime Salad and every week my husband Ricky joins me as my partner in crime we know the true crime space is crowded so we skip the loud bubbly small talk and get straight to the facts of the most gripping cases if you want to see what we're all about check out our recent two-parter deep dive she saved him can you save her covering the baffling Rebecca Zahau case if you want a true crime podcast that feels authentic and respects the details come check us out search Crime Salad wherever you get your podcast Martha Marcy May Marlene yeah yeah that was my first like film film that's a great one and obviously girls which is always going to be a big part of your career at that point like I mean joining that right from the start was that disorienting to be I mean that that became a cultural touchstone very quickly yeah how did you handle it in retrospect kind of that the fame just being a part of the zeitgeist in that way it was it was a strange you know because when you're shooting something you're this is always happens you're not aware of what's how it's going to be received and and also that first season I was doing my first I done a lot of plays at that point but my first Broadway play so I was doing up it was looking back on it it was amazing because I'm like that you know that's then I really wanted to work now as a good older I'm like I don't want to work anymore but you're really fucking up then yeah yeah yeah but but what if you know to shoot that during the day and then to go do this I was doing house this play house of blue leaves at the time and then doing that at night like so it for me the experience of it lives in that much of it lives in that sort of memory reflecting on it it's so that was cool like you know I was like really hustling you like I loved it did you notice people responding to differently though like once like it came out yeah a little bit I mean I you know I was living I think I was living in Greenpoint at the time especially so it's so it was like very it was site-specific you know what I mean yeah I think I think I know it but it wasn't a huge shift now it wasn't like I was getting I didn't feel like I was getting like recognized everywhere on the street yeah and also you know I just sort of went about my life at the time and you know I was doing you know I was doing weird things at that time I was like I worked at a you were still working side jobs like like yeah but not necessarily like yeah a little bit yeah like I worked at a Italian ice my friends Italian ice thing in Rockaway and I was sort of doing it in a way of all your own girls that was maybe during the second season yeah why did you have to for my no I didn't well you know I wasn't again it wasn't that much money at that time but no it wasn't I just wanted to I don't know I've had many many periods during my career where I sort of felt like I wanted to quit acting really yeah and I think and you know it was probably I was trying to get in touch with like whatever working roots or or manhood you know I was like I need to do I'm not that we're gonna Italian ice shop like particularly a manly job whole mining Italian icy stands yeah yeah but like I was but I was you know I was a set carpenter on other movies at a certain point around like around that time I just I don't know I think maybe that was like an early identity crisis of trying to like figure out you know am I just an actor doing it like do I want to only rely on it you know there was so I was probably acting out at maybe like getting noticed for a big show like this made me sort of act out in certain ways yeah did people were at like agents and whatever understand the artistic decision at the time like were you left a show and that's a big yeah that that's not what people do at that kind of time yeah and I know this got a lot of attention at the time but like did people in your orbit [BLANK_AUDIO] get it, get where you were at, and were they supportive of that decision, or was it a tough one? Yeah. And it's like, I mean, it's so long ago now that like I even forget the series of events, but it wasn't, you know, I remember like there's articles and stuff about it that made it more dramatic than it actually was, which is always the case. I mean, it really was, you know, it was, at least I'll say at least on my end, I was always nervous to sign on to something for multiple seasons, because whatever, my own fear of commitment generally. So you know, it wasn't, I was a guest star for the first two seasons. And you know, they wanted me to sign on, you know, for then, on the third season, for then to sign on for like a six year or whatever. And that just sort of scared me just because, you know, I liked, I liked working on it, but I get, you know, I get bored easily. So I don't, I had never gone back to a show. Yeah. That was the first time I ever went back and did another, all the jobs I'd done up to that point. It's like, I would do it and it's done. I never gone back to something. So I, at a certain point, I was just like, I don't know, I just wanted to do something else. Yeah. You must feel good about signing on for 10 X-Men movies now about knowing that that's the next thing. It's not that. It's not that many. But I did like, you know, I, it, see now as getting older too, you know, I am kind of looking forward to that. To the stability kind of. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, the, the team is really good, you know, Jake, Jake Schar, who's directing it. I'm, I'm very excited to work with him. And I, I have roots in X-Men, you know, I mean, I loved it when I was a kid. Really? Yeah. I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. Yeah. You know, it's not just jumping into like a marvel thing for the sake of it. I have, I have some childhood or adolescent stake. There is something, as you probably will know, there's a lot of like, the love people have for the fact that both you and Adam Driver somehow have ended up. That's very funny. I know. Have you guys discussed this yet? Like, have you? No. No, we haven't. Yeah. No. Of course, I thought about that when, you know, I thought that was funny. But Jake, you know, that's Jake's fault. Is Alex Karpofsky playing Wolverine or do we have any others joining? I think that's it. That's it. I think that's what. Yeah. But you know, it's, it's kind of happened eventually. You know, you got to, you got to, you got to cross pass me. But I didn't, I didn't even work with Adam on girls. Right. Like we didn't have, we didn't really have anything together. So I feel like we haven't worked together yet. Well, one last thing on girls, I mean, people do love the episode. Obviously, you came back. Like, that's still revered as one of the great episodes of television, period. And that must be satisfying for you that like, if there was any kind of like, oh, he has what we were feelings about the show, at least you ended it with this kind of like beautiful episode that people all kind of acknowledges. That is nice, right? I think that is nice. But again, my experience of these things is so different than the people that consume them. Like, yeah, it was nice. It was nice to sort of go back and, you know, just fuck around a little bit. I don't, it's incredible to that people, uh, revere that episode, you know, yeah, yeah. So um, James White has to be considered, I would imagine for you creatively and professionally, probably kind of a game changer, is that fair to say? In a, in a small way, yeah, I mean, we were talking before about the festival experience, how like it seems like something's going to like take over the world and maybe that's what this was. But the right people saw it. The right people. Exactly. It was a household movie by any means, but it was a movie that, you know, more than like what it did for me, it was, um, you know, at the time, you know, uh, Josh Mann who directed it was, is, was a good friend of mine and, uh, Sean Durkin who I, you know, and Tony Antonio Campos produced it. Right. So it was the first time where I felt a lot of freedom in getting to do what I wanted and felt very comfortable and in feel like I was working for someone. And I think that was the first time I had just artistically sort of had that freedom and, um, and freedom to experiment and, you know, and really have some input in, in the movie. So, um, for multiple reasons that, yeah, that movie was, uh, momentous, you know what I mean. And I think, I think career wise, it's sort of, um, uh, if I had to look from the outside and maybe, I think it, people maybe took me a little bit more seriously from, I would imagine it's subsequent jobs, the directors, the casting directors saw that and said, get me that guy or at least get him in the room. I think so, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't know if like jumping ahead, like catch 22, like, I don't know if that was on the casting directors or Clooney's radar, but like, I don't think Clooney saw that. Really? No, I audition for catch 22. I just had a, I just had a really, I think I just had a really good audition. Were you a good audition? Or you probably, hopefully, don't have to do that too much lately, but. Yeah. Um, I did. I liked, I was pretty, sometimes I was pretty good. I liked going into the room, um, the challenge of it, the adrenaline, the what, like, I liked, it, well, again, to equate it to theater. It was like a little bit, you know, I liked going into the room and there was people there. Yeah. As, you know, I was never, I was never good at like zoom, you know, or whatever, making it, making my own tape at the time, you know, um, I was terrible at that. I hated that. But I like going, it was a little performance, you know, you go into a room and you do something. But, um, but that was just a great, you know, George Clooney and I just sort of, I think we, he just understood what I was, uh, yeah, working with. But, um, that, that was great. Is there always remember that? Is there a great audition that didn't necessarily even pan out into a role that still sticks out in your mind in terms of like the experience of it was just great, just to connect with the filmmaker you admired or material and even if it didn't pan out that still jumps out to you. Yeah, there, um, uh, yeah, there was one, there's, there's a few, uh, I'll tell you a sincere one and then a sort of funnier one, um, I, I auditioned, speaking of the weird coincidence, Clooney. But I remember audition for that movie, "Money Monster." Yeah. The Jodie Foster directed. And um, that was like a really, oh, the Jack O'Connell role problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and he's great. Yeah. And, but, uh, I just remember auditioning for that and, uh, and Jodie, uh, I didn't get it, but she wrote a really nice email to me and, uh, I'll always remember that and that experience was really good. But I remember audition for, uh, this, I forgot where the production of this play orphans by Lyle Kessler. Yeah. Oh, gosh. That was on the end of him. Wait, was that shy? No, it wasn't that production. It was like an early, it was like some earlier one. I don't think it was in, I don't think the production was in New York. I forget. Anyway, but the point is I always remember this, um, I thought it was really good in the audition and I was really, really, I was going for it. I was like, you know, I had this whole, we were, uh, I was auditioning in this big room or whatever. Uh, I was, I was, I was doing crazy shit. And, uh, I remember getting the email. I was like, I think I nailed this one. I remember getting the email. I was like, I was anxious about the reaction and, of course, my brain, I, my agent said they said, uh, he's, uh, Chris was, I'm like fine or whatever, but he was, uh, not of this world. Oh. Like not, like, but I, I first read it, like he's out of this world. And I was like, and I was like, so I got it. And she was like, no, no, no, she's like, you're not, they're like, you're not, you're on a different, you're on a totally, and I was like, got it. Good note taken. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was like, he's out of this world. I've worked with, um, I love JC Chad Dorma fan, he's good buddy running to him a lot in New York, obviously. Yeah, he's always around. He's always walking around and you, you worked with him on this violent year. Yeah. Does he owe you or do you owe him for craving the hunter for your appearance in that, in retrospect? He owes me big time. I feel like I can, I can safely, you know, I'm just going to, I can shit talk myself. Sure. What happened? I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't, I didn't understand what the power was, what the super power was. I didn't know what was going on. I was like, what? And like, I was like, so I take off my glasses and what happens and whatever. And like, no, I feel like no one really had a good answer. Could someone give me an answer? I don't know what I was wearing in that, in that thing. I've, I've sort of, I've, I've sort of buried that deep in the air. Sorry to unearth it. But I mean, again, the experience is, like, Aaron, I love Aaron. I did it. Yeah, Alessandro and of all is a good, good buddy of mine. Like, I like, like, the people I love work on these people, but you know, that was a, I, It's a learning. It's a, it's a, it's a learning curve, but, but they're all great in the, and they're great in the movie. I don't, I don't know what I'm doing in that thing. Did you, did you see yourself in the movie? Like, did you watch the final product and then, did it hit you like afterwards or in the moment where you're thinking that? In the moment. I was in the moment. I was like, as like, I don't, I don't think this is going well. But, um, but, you know, I wanted to, I was, JC asked me to do it and I had never done a movie like that. I, I, I just, like, sometimes I don't pick things for actor reasons. I was like, I want to go see how the wheels turn, how the gears turn on a product. Like, I had never done a, you know, super hero of the, I was like, I want to see how this works. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. We'll, we'll, X-Men be better than Craven the Hunter. I will guarantee you that. At least me, at least from my own, you know what I mean. Yeah. Okay. So, a little bit on the, the future for you with X-Men, which, I'm sorry, JC. No. I feel like he doesn't. He doesn't care I've seen him since and I great he wants I think I at some point I need to have the post mortem on on Craven because there's a lot to be told oh my god. Yeah, but okay So on the X-Men front, which I know look you haven't even read a script so there's nothing to really say I get it Yeah, genuinely. I'm not being coy. I don't I don't know what yeah, all good So I'm not taking for plot stuff, but I'm just curious like how this happened like do you is this just an audition is this yeah? Oh, sorry come no, that's all I got like Yeah, Jake Shryer. I mean, I think you'd seen other, you know, yeah, I think he'd been a fan of mine, but I had to no I test like you know audition or I like I sort of read something on zoom First and then I had to go in and test for it camera test kind of thing Yeah, I'm costume like a whole thing like a little bit just like a little bit of a vibe Yeah, and did you have a take on it because like obviously there've been two very notable Interpretations and live action of this and I would imagine you're not kind of actor that's gonna want to be like Oh, I mean the same thing. No exactly. I mean, yeah, look, but I also didn't have a script then either, you know So but I I obviously know of X-Men have been a fan of X-Men, and you know, we read from I don't know if they were necessarily dummy dummy sides or scenes But they were very human, you know what I mean? And I Still don't know, you know, the fun part for me is The journey of figuring out how I'm gonna do it. Yeah And I'm it's a challenge. I think I'm excited because that's also gonna be a challenge. like a true acting challenge and I Have some ideas for the approach This is gonna I don't want to I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent But I'll I'll give you a fun little thing I've been very interested lately and just broadly the idea of like consciousness Mm-hmm, you know what I mean? And I'm not I'm not saying I'm gonna do the ultimate Method acting here and try to be Psychic by the time I do this movie, but I'm getting close Josh But I gotta tell you something. I've had a few moments or things that I like I'm like that's pretty good You can read people's minds. You know I don't want to talk too much about me you brought it up What do you what do you you're at one with the universe? What are you sensing beyond what I can do all right? I Do you know what remote viewing is no? This is gonna make me seem like a crazy person you opened up Pandora. I did open it up Okay, I did an exercise. I'll leave it at that. Okay, but I didn't exercise where I was meant to a friend Drew okay, I was doing this with a friend and their relative was in a house in Long Island and there was a picture in the house in Long Island and I had to try to essentially Just try to see your guess what it was okay long story very long story short. I didn't get it But I did end up getting this very big painting that was in the room and I had to draw something and It matched pretty well and that friend Got it framed for me. It was a pretty this this recent. This is prior to getting the Josh I shouldn't have even brought this up because it was it's just gonna take to for full context It's gonna take about 30 minutes. You know, I mean you demonstrated you kind of get you get when I'm getting it all right Did you tell Jake this is this what got you the job? It's all about crystals. You don't even know. Oh my god. All right I have to let you go very very quickly. So here we're gonna end within it sadly apparently you have to run Profoundly random questions. That's the tradition we end every happy. Okay. Great. You ready? Dogs or cats. What a weird thing to end on God damn it Whatever dogs or cats dogs all the way. Mm. No quit. No no question. No hesitation. What do you collect? Ah? What do I collect Not much okay some vinyl okay, but not not big I'm not I'm not a I like getting I like throwing out great. I'm a big I like throwing garbage out great Yeah, I don't collect that much. You can get rid of this one your way out garbage. What do you? What get rid of what there's a little garbage over there. Oh Favorite video game of all time. Ooh favorite video game. That's a good. Oh, that's a good one You know I started I played video games when I was a kid and I kind of started again pandemic obviously, you know The more recent ones I played I like the sport. I always like sports games but Last of us was great one and two I played both. They were both great to two I think I talked to decide the usual subject Two great. Okay. God of War was was really good Those are like the most complicated games like I'm play otherwise sports games. Oh, man There's but when I was a kid Metal Gear Solid. Yeah, that original anyway. Yeah Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt? Dakota Johnson asked me that I ask everybody that One bee and one mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt You got this oh god, that's hard. I don't want to be in my butt. Then you're going to the mouthful I got a mouthful of bees. What's the wallpaper on your phone? dog Yeah, sleep dog. Okay. Yeah last actor you were mistaken for Annoyingly not actually not annoyingly. It's great But it was just an age thing that I was like what? Mandy patinket wow You're great in the princess prime It wasn't I was mistaken for but someone was like I was a mistaken for him But someone's like you'll get many patinkin. I was like now I was like oh fuck It's like that's not good. You know, I just had it to hear someone that said they get this looks great But I'm just he's older. I just had in here another actor who said they get mistaken for you Kid Harrington came. Oh, yeah, that that's has happened to you the other way or no? It has it had you're right that is a while ago. I think there's a period where I'm especially I think We both had like the same amount of facial hair and I get it, you know, I mean Yeah, yeah, you want to hear funny little one. I remember long this a while ago. I did a movie and I was doing this movie in Cleveland and I was at dinner with some of the cast and The wait the waiter comes out and it was like hope you enjoyed everything our chef is hey My first the chef here's a really big fan can you come take a picture and I was like yeah, of course and then he comes out And he's really you know, he's really nervous and he's like hey sorry I was like no, you mean the food was great blah blah blah and he's like he's like oh yeah Yeah, yeah, he's like I just don't want about I was like what eat this point. I'm like, it's fine You know, it's fun and he's like and we're all taking a picture and dance I was doing some of the dance Stevens was also there so he knows the story and We're taking the and we're taking the picture and he's like, you know, he's like kind of shaking and he's like Thank you so much. I was like, it's no it's like dude. It's fine. He's a thank you so much And he's like yeah, he's like me and my wife just you know, we watch Game of Thrones all the time and right before the picture was taken I go oh, that's not me man and he's like he's like oh, yeah, and then it would the break off and I was like do you still you know I mean I was like you know we can delete the photo if you were we already took it at that point I would love to see that I'm like I wonder if I wonder if the camera caught his daughter in either just disappointment the dying light in all I was like that's not me and she's yeah, yeah And a worse noted director has ever given you Worst known director, I mean You know, I was gonna say like faster. Yeah, but sometimes I get what that means I can't think of one. I'm sorry You've been well-directed. This is a good sign. I think so. Yeah, it's been pretty good Congratulations east of Eden. Yeah, we covered a lot and a short amount of time impacted, but we'll have you back back We're gonna know what I said 60% was made sense. Holy god All right, I'm so tired. I'm so happy you did this. Thank you so long time Yeah, it's been a very it's been a while. I'm happy to finally be here. Definitely congratulations and everything Get back to that kid of yours. Congratulations again on that from most importantly Well, summer may be over, but things are still hot on turtle time good bye next gin and why see good By the valley we'll see you next year But now turtle time is gearing up to cover some of the most beloved franchises in the bravo universe Turtle time is covering real housewives of Salt Lake City real housewives of Orange County and real housewives of Potomac Salt Lake City Orange County Potomac. These are wonderful franchises. Could you imagine what Amy and I are gonna say about them? You'll hear some of the hottest takes you've ever heard in your life. You'll feel like it's still summer Oh, these will be hot takes a fall and winter great job trying to cool things off. No, it's still hot over on turtle time You're gonna get that summer warmth. So put away your bathing suit put away the sun screen. Summers over, but you can still feel hot, hot, hot by listening to Turtle Time. Some of those other podcasts, you know it's fall or winter when you're listening to them. But Turtle Time, it's kind of like summer. It's hot. So enjoy the Turtle Time podcast, co-hosted by me, Riley Hamilton, and Amy Scarlotta, and it's available almost every single day of the week. Better luck next time, fall and winter.