Christians in the Workplace: How to Live Out Your Faith at Work

(upbeat music) - Hi. - I'm actually so glad that you have your coffee as well, 'cause I will say. - I also have it in a really funky mug. I don't know if you can tell, it's a square. - I have a collection of interesting pottery coffee, and that's like a little moment of my, in my corporate America days in the morning when I'm like, where's my little mode of joy gonna be? What coffee am I gonna drink out of today? - So funny, I used to do that as well with Stefan. I used to go and try and find really unique mugs, and then we're in our house, which is a very small house, where you live it to store it. - Yeah, so that had to change quite quickly, but I've got a cup of coffee. - It is one of those things where I live alone in Chicago, and so I can have as many fun, like one-off mugs as I want, but I know that if that changes and I don't live alone in the future, that will be one of the, I'm ready to fight that battle, if I need to. - Yeah, trying to pick your battles, and so it came to the thing of like, which mugs were really important in, yeah. Those ones, those ones were interesting. - There you go. Okay, so I thought we just get started with introducing, I didn't even say your name, Quincy. - You are, and just your background. So if you wanted to give us, I know your story or where you've ended up here, as well as they where you're from, and I'm like that could potentially be a very loaded question. - That is a very loaded question for me, for sure. - Yeah, just who you are, and how you've ended up, where you've ended up? - Absolutely. So I'm Quincy Larson. I live in Chicago currently, as I just mentioned, actually it is snowing outside right now, was there doing in Chicago? I am a good friend of Taylor's, and I am a Christian person foremost, and so even in whatever I introduce about my life, or where I'm from, that loaded question, even some of these stories, like everything is centered around. The Lord, since I popped out, and was born to excellent, wonderful Christians, the Lord has been the center of my entire life. So growing up, I lived overseas for a lot of my childhood. I've lived in Barcelona, Spain, in quite a few states in the US, and London, England, and all of that was before fifth grade, and then fifth grade on until, I think my junior year of college, my parents were based in China, and then until COVID, they were in Asia. So I grew up overseas, and then was dropped off at 18 at the University of Pennsylvania in Philly, and was a freshman wide-eyed with an American passport, who technically was American, but hadn't lived there for 15, 16 years. So I was very, I'm a very multicultural growing up, and then after university, I went to, well, in university, study business, at the Wharton School of Business at UPEN. I got my degree, did a lot of internships, during that time, did a lot of me and Jesus, having a lot of hard conversations during that time, and after college, I ended up with a job offer, and then moving to Chicago, Illinois, which is where I am right now, and I've been working here, living here, finding community here, ministry here, I have a wonderful church, and in ministry at church as well. - Yeah, what, so growing up in Asia, was there a particular reason why you had drawn to do business particularly as your undergraduate? - Yeah, absolutely. My parents, I might mention my parents quite a bit in this, but that's because I am a big fan of it. - I'm a big fan of your parents. - I have wonderful parents, and the older I get, I turned 30 literally yesterday, so this is like a fun little birthday celebration. I, the older I get the more I appreciate the way my parents raised us, I have two sisters, I'm one of three, not just how they raised us, but I'm also the older I get more appreciative of the character and integrity they had, while they raised us in lots of very unique and interesting and challenging times. I told someone recently that my parents were the same when we had lots of money and when we had no money, when we were in China and when we were in America, when we were surrounded by family, and it was just the five of us in a continent, and we literally knew no other person on that continent, and that was so telling of an influential, and that actually was kind of similar to why I ended up going towards business because my parents were, this is one thing, and we'll probably get into it in a little bit in the conversation, but my parents taught me, and I didn't know that anybody else thought any differently, 'cause I didn't have like a, you know, an apostolic youth group growing up, I didn't have that. My parents taught me that nothing was secular, if you lived your life for Christ. So there really wasn't this idea of like, I work a secular job and you work a spiritual job, or I went to secular school and you went to Bible school. I knew the words, obviously, and I know what they mean, but if the idea that secular means something that has nothing to do, it doesn't have a spiritual basis or nothing to do with spiritual things, because I am a spiritual person, and everything in my life has to do with the Lord, then my school, regardless of whether I'm learning business or anything else, is spiritual. It's not secular because I'm not secular. So we were raised with that idea, that education really unlocked doors. If you had the opportunity, walk through any opportunity that the Lord presents to you, regardless of where it came from, or if it looks like the door you think your life would look like, and they told us that everything would be ministry. So when I started having an affinity towards math, I don't use math a bunch right now in my career, but I liked math and my little sister liked math. My older sister to this day, don't ask her to do math. It's just not gonna happen. She, though, really loved words. So we figured out what we were all good at, and then we figured out where God had gifted us, and that's how it was always framed. It wasn't she's bad at math and I'm good at math. It ended up being like, "The Lord has gifted you in problem solving." Chelsea, my older sister, "The Lord has gifted you in storytelling." Like, that's what God has gifted you, and every gift from the Lord ultimately is to build his kingdom. So how are you going to build his kingdom if you're good at problem solving and math, and you have the opportunity to go to university, maybe you should study business, because that's obviously you can use that ultimately to build the kingdom of God. So I had opportunity, and then I also had shepherding. So that's how I landed in the business field. My mom and dad are also in business in their own right. So that's how I ended up going that direction towards business. - I also just realized that we didn't even really introduce the topic, but you've sort of like, well there you go. We wanted in anyway, talking about Christians in the workplace, why, or how we should be within the workplace, but we should be pursuing no the rest of it. But to your point, I remember years ago now, like, years ago, I read a book from John Mark Koma Cold, "God and City." And he, I don't remember much of the book, but he had this really good premise that similar to that, that we in the Christian world have divided things into like spiritual and secular, like there is like the work of the ministry, and then there is like work that I've just got to do to make money and live life and all sorts of things. But there is this emphasis onto this, like I just do this on the side, it's this. And his premise was no, no, no, when God created Eden, one of the first things that he did was tell Adam to work. - To work, give him a job. - Mm-hmm. And to name the animals. And then after Eve was created, God then tells them to keep the garden, like this is your job to work, and how work is old work, is once you do it to the Lord, is spiritual and is designed, and it's not just a matter of like, and I think his phrase was something like slapping John 360 and onto something and making that spiritual, but like, and actually just spoke to Greg about this as well, and he mentioned all beauty belongs to the Lord, and honors the Lord, and that was what this author had said as well, that doing things to the best of your ability, and the Bible talks about that as well, right? Like that you can honor God. There is a way to work where you honor God in your life. How does that look like? So sorry, I'll sort of mesh those two questions. So you're in Chicago, what in a business role, I'm. - Yeah. - I know what you do, I don't know what the title is. - I do, I do. - I know what your title is, and I have told so many people about what you do, and I love it. Love it so much, I think it's so unique. Do you wanna keep like a quick two second, 10 seconds to feel about what you do? - Absolutely. So I, when my title is strategist or growth strategist, and I work at a growth consulting agency, so I get to come in and maybe work on something I've never heard of before, or a brand that I personally have never used, and help them. And I love that. I get to serve someone at the end of the day is going to be served better because I do my job well. Summarizing your journey to this, your parents were able to identify which beautiful, were able to identify something in you that they could see not only that you were good at, but that you enjoyed and pushed you towards what seems like the very right decision in pursuing business. And now you've ended up in a company that you've been there for seven, seven and a half years now, yeah. Seven and a half years, which is so what hurt of in this day and age. I agree, especially in our age group, I think, and in business, yeah. I was taught, not so much for nursing, nursing was like a year by year, but in other jobs that I went into, they were like, oh, if you want to get like a pay rise, if you want to move into a different role, I said the time you have to jump companies. I have been told that as well, and I will also say that I've also seen that be true in some fields in some areas, especially early career. I will say that for my company, and if you find a place where your culture, the culture of the company met, and not just the words they say, but the actions they take, is somewhat more aligned to what you are looking for, people first, that type of mindset, then you should be paid for the value that you bring. So I am not saying, don't hear what I'm about to say, as like, don't be paid and like, piety is the way to go. I'm not saying that. You should absolutely be paid for the value you bring to a company. However, the mindset that I have had and that the Lord has helped me learn and stick to and ultimately blessed me for is that I absolutely could early days into this job and in this career have gone somewhere else to get a pay raise, but I did not view this job as simply the thing that is giving me money. And if I am seeking money out of my job in my career, and only that, then it would have been more pertinent for me to go to another company. But for me, because nothing is strictly secular, I am not only at this job to pay my bills. That is part of it. I live alone in an apartment in Chicago. I need to pay my bills. Please, Lord, give me a paycheck. I need that and I need the insurance and I need all of those things. But I was given this job and I'm not saying that as a, if they're treating you poorly, you have to stay there because God opened the door, not at all. But I prayed and I said, Lord, I could go work a job anywhere, but I want a career that is blessed by you and ordered by you and you are placing not just money in my hands, but you're placing people in my hands. You're placing learnings. Maybe I need to be somewhere where I'm not paid as much, but I'm learning a lot where I'm learning something that will be valuable to the kingdom or valuable in the later parts of my life. It's not simply money. And so absolutely true. You could probably go make some more if you jump early career, but I would have very much hesitate and ask the Lord, I could have jumped, but then I wouldn't be with these people that nowadays I am having a much, it took time to get to the point where I could have the conversations I'm having now and if I jumped, I would have had to start all of that over again. So it's an interesting thing that you brought up because it's true. You could, some of those things that we talk about and putting my coffee down, and I'm getting serious. I was thinking about when you told me about this topic, I was thinking about where I think I actually basically thought about this topic and I've thought about this for many years now, but especially the last year or two, I was seeing some patterns. I basically took what I how I do for work and I had diagnosed patterns and barriers and opportunities and I started thinking about that with with the church and Christians broadly and thinking about this and there really were three things that I saw as either detrimental or could be better, like we're doing all right, but we could be doing better or it causes like myths in the way we understand Christians at work or how we as believers should be at work. One is what I mentioned, the separation of secular and spirit, spiritual. I am not saying that the position of the pastor is the same as me. That's not at all what I'm saying. There is authority, there is structure and I'm so thankful working for a church is there spiritual work. I know I'm not saying that it is exactly the same, but that separation and delineation of inherently giving secular things like a moral code, spiritual good, secular bad. That has caused I'll think a lot of false belief a lot of shame even for students especially as they're coming up and they're making these decisions on should I go to Bible college, should I go to college at all, should where should I start working and if I do where and this idea of and I know that the Bible college students probably feel at the same way on the other side of like go get a real degree that sh- there's just too much shame involved there, but that like if I put my my future in the hands of God and he opens the door for me to go to the number one business school in the country, how on earth is that not spiritual? If God opens the door for my friend to graduate high school and start working and as apprenticeship as an electrician and work with their hands and that's what God's doing. In 20 years maybe what he's doing is is is using that skill to build a new church building. I don't know what God has planned for these people, none of us do, and that separation and not just the separation of secular spirit but the attachment of good and bad like morality to it, that has caused a lot of problems and I think some some shame around people really take students especially taking the step towards a career with a spiritual mindset. That leads to the second problem that is connected to that where because we have not said your job is spiritual, we have we're only viewing the our jobs in our career, not everybody I'm speaking with generalities and I shouldn't, but like we're taking their viewing career, if we're not saying it's a spiritual mindset you should have towards it, they're using the mindset of the world and I have seen so many young people and I want to say especially a lot of young men who then take on the mindset of the world which is the grind and that's the grind and you have to give and you have to anything for money and you are chasing using the world mindset applied to your career because we told you that it couldn't be a spiritual mindset and so then you're chasing glitz glam you're doing what you were talking about it like okay I can make more money over there so I'm gonna jump and that's idolatry we're putting this success as an idol and success only meaning money and then the third thing is exactly tied to that as well is that then our view of success is skewed success can only be the binary it can only be I am a preacher at youth congress in america or I am a pastor and I am only spiritual and I only work that is my only work and I do success at the highest level meaning I do it in front of them a lot of people or success being I make a lot of money and I have worldly lots of people who I've grind grind I have a lot of money that is not the biblical definition of success and there is such a gap for the career and the job to be a mission field and if the success of my life is to be souls an impact in building the kingdom if I am to spend 42 weeks a year 40 40 hours uh 52 weeks a year 40 hours a day what 52 weeks a year 40 hours a week eight hours a day all of those things if I'm doing that then that's the majority of my time and there leaves a gap where career should be your mission field and it builds the kingdom um god put you there for a purpose hey love that so much I am going to do my best to like sort of summarize and sort of not categorize what you've just said but it's this idea first and foremost that when god opens a door that's not just you that's not just your skills your background and whatever and especially with all of the fear that's generated around currently the job market as well yeah absolutely it's this it's having this mindset of if this door is opened and I've I've prayed this as well I remember actually specifically praying um I had two big decisions and it was either like getting it into like staying in Australia or going to the States for three months when I was 18 19 I think 18 and I remember saying to the Lord okay if I get this nursing job then I know you want me to stay if I don't then I know that you want me to go and it wasn't so much as like his voice speaking and telling me it was the door that was open and I didn't get the job so I was like um I guess I'm going in the States there we go incidentally that's when I met Stefan yeah but then when I came back I was really struggling to get like a job in my field and was just praying and like really needing a job obviously and then what was so funny to me was I remember it was a Friday I think I want to say it was no I think no it was a Thursday it was a Thursday um a hospital called me and was like hey we'd really like you know to get you on and well what and I was like oh amazing so I responded to them being like so excited but they were like bit you can't stop for like another month I was like that's okay at least I've got something lined up even in a month's time. Then on the Friday someone was like, "Yeah, can you start on Monday?" And I was like, "Sure." So I took the Monday job and I was in that hospital for five years. But it was this thing of the doors, what doors were being opened. Because I think then you've then led to another really important point is first and foremost, wherever you land up, but land up, land in your job was not just happenstance. If we believe that God order steps, and if we believe, and this isn't the song, that he orders the steps of the righteous man. We commit always to him. And when we commit always to him, yes, I 100% believe that they're going to have to be decisions to be made. And I even can come with those crossroads where there's no right answer. It's just whatever you decide is before you. This is what you want, right? There's no, and I think that, and I'm going to pause and deviate right now, I think that creates a lot of anxiety, especially in young passions, because they don't want to make the wrong decision. I think that's even just like graduating high school right, and you're trying to figure out where to go, what to do. Where do I go? What do I do? And we spoke about this before we press record. Being in my 30s, I have pivoted so many times. Like you've been in your role for seven and a half years. I have been in dozens of roles in seven and a half years. And I think that that is something that I'm really grateful for is the opportunity to start again. Is the opportunity to pivot when something just is not working out or life circumstances change, say, "Lovey." Absolutely. Just going to move on. But see now I TV8, and then I forget my thing. I do want to say to that what you were just saying, I think even in the difference between what we're sort of great parallels or foils for each other, I've been in the same job. I've done internships in the business school. And all these like very on the path. And thank you, Laura, that I decided to go to business school first and liked it. What if I didn't? That would have been horrible. But well, actually it wouldn't have. It would have been fine. I would have just adjusted. But I just would have been fine. But that looks very different. And in the world's view, success, quote unquote success. My younger sister is a mechanical engineer. And she took her, her gifts and talents and took it to a very different place. My older sister ended up getting us two master's degrees. And now is a librarian and lived in all these different places and had all these different jobs. Like whatever that looks like, very different for all three of us. And then even what you were saying of like you've had a million roles in seven years. However, the way I view it and knowing you and all the conversations we've had in the eyes of the world, that might be the different success in the eyes of God and the eyes I try to take with people and with myself is that if you are simply following the steps of the Lord, be an intentional with your job and your career, walking through that next step, whatever he's guiding you to do, whether that's for me, staying was a God choice. Right. That was not easy for you saying, I need to go there or I'm a mother now. And that's changed things and this and that, that allows you flexibility to be a very present mother right now. My friend, Ashlyn, I love her. And she is a barista at Starbucks. And she very intentionally uses that to provide for her family, but also to the flexibility to be a youth pastor and a hyphen worker and to be on staff and and do some of our music department things. It also allows her as God has given her the gift to see people deeply in a very short amount of time. She will have regular people will talk to her in that one moment of ordering their coffee and she will touch these people's lives more people than I see every day and I'm sitting in an office. She's seeing hundreds of people and touching them every day and then going to work for the church to me, that is success because she's allowing her career. You're in you're in success because you're allowing the Lord to guide and lead and it's that fallacy that I was talking about where if we don't look at it that way, if we don't say like, Oh, is it spiritual? Are you building the kingdom? Are you allowing your career to be a part of the life that God is is ordered by the Lord? If not, then it would only be the standard of are you grinding? Are you making enough money? And in that case, I would be the most successful, but then someone else who's making more is making more sense, but that's not true at all. In the eyes of God, we're all we're ordered. We're walking. We're successful. Does that make sense? I'm saying like that. 100%. But it's it's this thing of as a Christian in a workplace, something as simple as what TV success says. Success is upside down. Everything in life following after Christ is upside down. So it's not a matter of making the most. It's not a matter of working the most. Upside down means contrary to what the world is. The attitudes are a perfect example of that. Absolutely. Deeper meaning. Blessed are those who are poor in spirit. Blessed are those who mourn. Blessed are those who like hunger and thirst like who are meaty. Right? And it's that's the heartbeat of so many of Christ's lessons within the gospels that it's not about. The greatest. The greatest among you is the least among you. Right? It's the servant. And so having this attitude walking into your workplace being yeah success is not being the manager at Starbucks. Success is just having the flexibility to serve in multiple roles. And to your point about your the electricians and things like that, there have been I know of the church in New York. They sent a bunch of men to go help build a new building in one of the Caribbean islands. And it's this idea of I have a skill and I can use the skill to build the kingdom. Greg and I were speaking the other day about one of the older men in our church who is a landscaper and he will care for the very small god and then we have to have no one awesome to do it. No one pays for him to do it by him not by him having the skills in his secular by him having the skills in his secular life. He is blessing the church that we don't have to pay for a god no. We can use whatever funds we would have used for that in another life. And it's as well you were talking about not separating things from being secular and spiritual. It's being Bible talks about being a light and walking into these places and being and interacting with people who may have never the hospital that I worked at for five years. I don't know how many Christians have worked there. And it wasn't me coming out and like being the most abrasive and staunch Christian but it was just being a light. And to the end of my time there everyone knew that I went to Sunday the Wednesday church on Sunday and there was actually a particular situation. I remember this so well where it was the three of us myself and two of the nurses were working and one of these these nurses just started getting a bit how they get and I just do want to engage very kind of like that. But I didn't have to because if the third nurse that was there began defending she there was nothing blister. New nothing about my faith had never really interacted with Christians. I really grew up in that world. But she saw what was happening and was able to defend as well. Because she knew they might not know Bible. They might not know scripture but they know you. They know your character. They see how you live your life. As I mentioned 52 weeks a year 40 days 40 hours a week. Yeah. And so I think that that comes into another thing if for those who are entering into the secular world. Yeah. I'm using this language. No, that's true because it's clear and yeah. Yeah. That's a very how how do you your parents touch or would teach you that you know you remain spiritual and spiritual. So how do you protect that? How do you protect your integrity? How do you and protect all of that when it's seemingly the workplace culture is just so indirect complex, let's say. Yes. I get a lot of questions about this when I get to chat like to at hyphen events or youth events or things like that. And it's so funny you said the Beatitudes because I jot down two scriptures when I was thinking like what are the things that help me and get me through. And then my parents before that and all I've seen so many amazing believers at work. And the first one I wrote down was Matthew five and in the Beatitudes. But it said after all of this blessed or this blessed or this let your light so shine before men. And it's truly the most simplistic tying it together is that when you are before men let your light shine and that seems simple. But then it goes on to say like don't hide it under a bushel and we hear to how can the salts be the salts of the earth if it doesn't have any flavor anymore. And I think the the workforce and your your day to day mundane is a perfect example of that because as you were saying I to me my job is not secular because I am spiritual always but I it is a secular environment it is not spiritual it is not spirit based if anything and I work in US corporate America I cannot be it is it is not the place to be overtly something people over with the head with my faith that is not the place for it's not it's a professional place it's not a spiritual place I am bringing it in there where it is not there is not place for it, but because I am there, I'm bringing it. And so it is exactly letting my light shine before men and not always letting my words, but my light is not always my words. And often, it's not, often, it's not. So you're, if it can't be my words, then what can it be? And the other thing that my, my parents always said this. And then I think it's a life scripture of Colossians 3 where it says to whatsoever you do in word indeed, do all in the name of the Lord. That obviously he's writing to the church, but right after that, he follows that up with wives love your husband, wives respect your husband, submit to your husband, all these servants talk to your master. So obviously he's not just talking about do all unto the Lord in only a church organized setting. He's talking about life. And that includes work. And so I think there's a few things one, I would say to anyone going in, especially if you are young in joining the workforce entry level, talk to people in your church who are, are, are in the workforce ahead of you and ask them about their experiences, but go in being absolutely clear on where you stand on your faith. It is hard to be wishy washy in a place that already is so opposed to, to the things of God. So I, it is harder to be, just be a light when you are struggling when you don't have light to give. So understanding very tactically, because I, I always want to make sure that someone can understand, have it like, okay, but what do I do? How do I actually do that? Very tactically, one thing that I personally have to do is I have topics or categories that I do not want to work on for me. There are places and situations that I do not want to put myself in. So that line for everybody, depending on their career and the job they're being asked to do, might be very different. So for example, for me, I'm often in situations where there's alcohol present. That for me, that is my line. That is okay. I'm at a corporate event holiday party. I'm at a dinner with our clients. They're going to be drinking. That is a very normal part of the business world where I draw the line is one I never shy away from saying that I don't. And there's always a line where it is no longer a corporate event. And now some people have gone home and it like the room genuinely discernment, true discernment, the room shifts. And now I'm not having a corporate event. We're having a social event where it's just we all have been to work together. And often that shift, I feel it. And that's my time to go. So if we're having dinner or we're having a celebratory, we just finished this big project. And it's not about the drinking, but there is drinking present and we're all celebrating this client and this thing. And then the room shifts and it becomes very apparent that I am not drinking and they are. And that is my moment always to go. If it's too late in the evening, I'm going to go because I don't my line for myself and my holy living, my version of modesty because I'm taking it everywhere because I'm spiritual. That means at the workforce, I'm being modest in the way that I dress in the way that I speak. And that means that sometimes people make fun of me. They're very lighthearted. But in the way that like if something goes wrong in a project and their natural instinct is to swear, I don't swear personally. And so they sometimes are like, I'll make noises like, oh, like just frustrated. And they're always like, how do you you have the most funniest noises when you're like, I know, you know, like it's it's it's fine. But it I am bringing my whole self inclusive of my holiness, my standards, my morality, my my, I mean, this thing being the thing that everything is guided on, that's coming with me. Yeah. And that means sometimes protecting and guy having very clear lines on the other side. I would highly encourage them to look at it. All of us to continue to look at it as a as a mission field and as a strength. Because I am spiritual, I get to bring this thing into my workforce. How cool is that? How awesome is that? What an opportunity. And so things like I pray not every day, but especially if I have a project or a day or a coworker or a situation where there's some conflict or tension or it feels just like contentious. And I don't make everything like, oh, I think there's probably a spiritual reason. Sometimes it's Monday. And I'm just really tired or sometimes our personality so matched or the client is mean. Not always. My clients are never mean. But you know what I'm saying? It's just life. But sometimes it could be spiritual. Yeah. I will pray. And I said, you know what? Let me use the fact that I get to bring the Lord with me. I have the Holy Ghost. I pray on the armor of God. And I especially pray on the boots of peace. And I will be like, you know what? I'm going to walk into that meeting room. And we don't have the option not to have peace because I'm bringing it with me. I'm walking into that meeting room that I know everyone is going to is like, oh, that's going to be a tough conversation. I put on the boots of peace this morning. So it's going to be peaceful. We're going to have peace. And it has been amazing to see how even if you're not preaching to these people, I had somebody, I work with a lot of people. I don't work in a Christian context. I don't work with out at a Christian company or, you know, a company that has like any faith base, not just Christian or Muslim or Hindu or anything. And there are people that live lives very opposite to how I live. And there are people who are my co-workers that live in ways where on paper people might assume, oh, Quincy, you would be uncomfortable being in that in relationship because that's what I am with my co-workers in relationship with those people. And I will tell you that often newer people coming in who are living those lifestyles or living differently, they think she's going to judge me just because they see it on me or I'm like, oh, I can't work. I can't send me that deck over. But I can't work on Wednesday nights because I go to church. I'll take a look after church. I'm very freely open about the fact that I live this way. And so me loving them and treating them the same and regardless of what that looks like in their life, me staying the same has really, it really softens their fear and their guardiness. So then this person who lives a very, very different life, I will not list off all the things, but very, very, very, very different than I do. And very different from the word of God. And they're a young, like a more Gen Z person and they said their partner that they live with was that they were telling who also was very different than me and the word of God, but that they were saying, oh, I love, I was telling my partner that I love working on projects with Quincy. And I was like, oh, that's so nice. I assumed she was going to say like, because I'm smart or something. I don't know. I was like, why? That's so kind. And then she said, because I didn't told her or told them because I know that if I'm on a project with Quincy and something goes wrong, even if there's chaos, it's like she walks in the room and there's just I can have peace because I know it's going to be fine. And I'm you just described the boots of people that I've been playing those on. And so like, even if they're not, you know, coming to my church and even if I'm not leading with my number one sort of weapon in my or tool in my toolbox, my number one is not an invite to church where it maybe was that when you're at school or maybe it was that when you're at college and said, and your number one, if someone shows any interest at all, it's like, oh, you should come to church with me. That is not my tool at work. It's, it's, this is my go-to that I'll say to people. There's an idea in scripture that really helps me that says blah, blah, blah. And they don't need to know that it's Matthew 5 blood, some whatever, whatever. They don't need to know. They don't care the biblical context. But if someone's talking about, hey, it's just really hard in this hard season, like how do you stay? They said pure of heart. How do you stay joyful? How do you say? Or how do you say like, I'm just like, they said, there's a site, a D N scripture that I can have, or how do you stay centered when the world is going on crazy and and there's this idea in scripture that says that I can have peace beyond my understanding. And that's really helped me because you're right. Like, I don't understand and you're so right about all of the things going on the world, so stressful and so but because my peace is not based in what I can understand of the world, that means that when it's gets beyond that, I can have peace because what I do understand is I have faith that there's something above that is and it's the look for me. It's God and Jesus is doing this and I can say these types of things or someone's having a really hard time and I said, you know, there's this idea in scripture that says or there's this this place in the Bible that says that the birds are fed. How does that happen? And no one tells them that and yet they are fed. The flowers are going to be dressed and it will happen. And so for me, that really helps me feel that you know what, you're right. That email needs to be sent in this thing and all the things it will sort itself out and there it will be we this too shall pass. And those types of things, those are the tools I have being kind when people think I won't be because of our faith and the difference in their lifestyle, being very strict with myself and how I show up. The Lord had to convict me last year. He kind of slaps me upside the head sometimes. Yeah. Often he's you know, connect on this. It's in that like he doesn't even like it was just like a still small voice wrapping me in his arms. He doesn't really speak to me that way because I think maybe I need him to. I'll be sitting there and I'll be like thinking or praying or like talking to him and then it's like this thought that literally comes into my mind and it literally And I'm like, oh. And he was, he basically told me, he was like, you're right. I'm giving you all these opportunities to speak about me and they know you now and all these things. But I need you to be a light and I need you to be a Christian, even when you're talking on Slack or even when you're talking and talking to each other in the work, not doing the work, but like in the quote unquote, "work room" in the "in between." And what that means is exactly and what that means is, okay, hey, some of those messages, we're a coworker friend of mine is like, oh, this is so frustrating. And I want to participate and I'm like, oh, it is. And that person, I can't believe. And it really slacked me upside the head and I was like, you know what? In the "in between" moments here, where that person is being frustrating to be very honest. They are being very frustrating. But I don't need a participate in gossip because I don't participate in gossip at church. I would, I don't believe in participating in gossip, but the in between parts of the work that we're following through your cracks for me. Hey, you need to be better about when you're at the office, not just only being at the office, but make sure you're going to lunch with people. I've called you there to not just do work, but I've called you there to be a light to these people, these souls. So, hey, I know you're tired and I know you've been around people. You can't, I don't want you to go off in the back and eat by yourself, eat with people. And I'm like, all right, Lord, you're so right. So though, we're learning, we're growing, but that's when it's like, do all into the Lord. That means that for us, we have to do those things, be strict with ourselves. We cannot, as Christians, show up to work. I don't care if you work at Starbucks or you are the CEO of a company. We cannot not bring our holiness and our goodness and our kindness to work because we're not being strict with ourselves to be people of God at the job. That means this might be God's personal. You cannot, or you shouldn't, I'm not gonna, actually, I'm not gonna say you should not, you cannot ask the Lord. It feels a little contradictory to lie about being sick, to get a sick day. That's a lie. I'm not saying take your PTO. Personally, take all of your PTO you deserve it. It's in your contract. It's part of your conversation. Take every single day that they give you. But that's an interesting, like, where are those contradictions that because they're a part of culture of work, we're like, oh, the job's not really a part of, that's my ministry. I cannot be unkind to my coworkers. I cannot be, I cannot lie about, oh, I'll get it to you tomorrow. And then not get it to them to the tomorrow. I cannot be a good, a bad steward of the things that the job has given me. If I'm also being strict with myself about being a Christian there, I can't. He, it's not actually upside the head when I do it. It's, it's, but what, it's like, I'm rambling at this point. But last thing to hear is that I was at an event for youth because when people, I sing a lot, very musical. I sing a bit. All the time, I, and for a lot of people, they think about, they view my ministry and they immediately assume I'm talking about the singing part. And I'm called to that and I feel it so strongly. That's a conversation for another day. It literally make me cry. I feel so heavily about worship leading and all of that. But I was at an event where I was worship leading and it was meant for all of the youth of Illinois. And there were so many young people there and it was amazing, it was beautiful. And I was there in the in between, they had these breakout groups and it was really all about go and you know, go preach the gospel, go do your, go, go, go, go. And it was practical equipping of them and they had go to your school and then go to your campus for CMI and then it was go to your church and it was like youth workers. And there was this glaring hole and I'm not to disperage them at all, they did an amazing job. But I sitting there, I said, there is this whole of go to your workplace, go to your job. And I knew a lot of young people who work at Starbucks, who work at McDonald's. I know a lot of young people who are started getting business undergrads and they're going to nursing school and they're in the hospitals. I know a lot of the young people there who were wanting to be realiders or wanting to be electricians and they are wanting to use their career for the Lord. And there's this whole of go to your workplace. And how do you do that? You be kind, you show up, you do these things, you be on time, you pray the boots of peace, all of these things we're talking about and there was that whole and it just. - Yeah. - And this is just such a great way to and I remember watching this real of this woman and she was specifically talking about motherhood but it plays into this. The great commission go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of Jesus. And she had, she was relaying, I think of as a rabbi that had sort of spoken about that particular verse. And they're understanding it wasn't go and make necessarily. It was in your going, make disciples. - Oh, I love that. - And absolutely. - Yeah, and she had this really great point and we've spoken about this through this conversation. Your life and where my life has ended up is very different. - So in our going, how do you make disciples? - For you, you can have the opportunity. These people workplace clients for me in my going looks like either my daughter or the other months and children I'm interacting with. - Exactly, exactly. Story time in the library or whatever it is. And so it's like, we've said this as well through our conversation. It's on the separation of secular and spiritual but it is that in whatever our going is. In the same job, in different jobs, in whatever it is go and make disciples and be a light of the world. - I want to say to that last thing on sort of wrap, exactly what you're saying and sort of wrapping all of the, if I were to summarize everything we were just saying, do not put a limit on what God could use to do the miraculous of what God could use to save people. Why couldn't he use your career? Why can't he use your job? And it's not only careers are important to the church because you pay tides and you're our saints. I mean, please pay your tides. I would love a million dollar donation to our church so we can finish our building. That would be amazing. I believe in for it. But those things are important. But why would we limit what the Lord can use for his kingdom, for his goodness? My parents are a great example of that in that I saw. My parents were missionaries, but they were corporate missionaries. And we were allowed to be in a country. And I won't get into that's a conversation for another day. We were allowed to be in places where traditional missionaries could not be, but because my parents had a job, we were able to be our light in that place for years and years, decades actually. That's God using a job for the career. I have been in this job and I have been in more CEO, boardrooms and things. And I have had people make comments about the way that I dress and be like, wow, you're always so this or the way that I speak to my coworkers, the way that I show up and love on them and speak differently when something is wrong. That is God using my job to be the light. My friend who works at Starbucks being able to use her job flexibility to build the actual church. That's God using her job, inviting your coworkers to work that my parents met at work. My dad was not, my mother was a six generation preacher's kid and my dad didn't know who God was. And they met at work and he saw her difference. And he literally started with a Bible study, came to know Jesus and then after that ended up dating and marrying. God can use your job to do things you could never have imagined. Let him. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Love to this chat. Love all the chats with you. I just-- I have a different-- I have a different-- and I hate-- I know. It's so sad. Distance in general. It's just-- Thank you, Jesus. I'm going to pray that the Lord gives me a crazy job where I have all this money and I can just go to Australia whenever I want and it's not even a problem. I received it. Amen. All right, I'll end this with prayer. Lord, we are so grateful that you have called us to so many things. I thank you for Quincy's life. I thank you, Lord, that we have the opportunity to study and to go into all of these different spaces where hundreds or even that Lord decades ago, this was not possible. We ask Lord for everyone listening that who is questioning where they should go or what they should do, that you would give them direction, that you would open doors and shut doors. Lord, in that you would also bless those who are already in workplaces. Lord, I ask that you would empower them to be lights wherever they are, Lord. And we give you all the glory and honor and praise in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. This was lovely. Chooly.