Christ, Truth & Alberta: Politics & Faith in Turbulent Times

Unpacking Homilies: Nathan Ziegfeld's New Book Hello everyone, Welcome to another episode of Gray Matter. Well, about a month or so ago, we had a gentleman on the program, an Alberta pastor named Nathan Ziegfeld. And we received a lot of comments, a lot of feedback, very positive, saying, you know, we want to see more of him. And so we decided to bring him on to the program for a broader interview. Nathan is a very interesting and I think unique thinker in Alberta right now. He is a Christian pastor, but he writes and publishes on a variety of topics, really wide variety, everything from poetry to Alberta independence, freedom of speech, Christian theology and praxis and much, much more. And so he's also published a new book on homily. And so we want to find all about out all all about that. Michael and I are producer Michael Klassen. We're real Bible nerds. And so we've been looking forward to this conversation. You 2 are going to find out what a homily is and why our guest is writing has written a book of them and why they're important and why they're very sort of nurturing in our in our spiritual growth and sustenance. So welcome the program, Nathan Ziegfeld, really happy to have you on the program. Speaker 2 Yeah, thank you, Leighton, for having me back on. I know you've been on our podcast now too. So yeah, it's, it's great to have this this friendship. Speaker 1 Yeah, right on. And so to, to be more clear about him, he's describes himself on his sub stack, which you should check out as a Christian, a husband, father, a pastor. He is I, he's a Reformed, which is close to my spiritual home, which is Lutheranism notwithstanding that little argument between Luther and Zwingli over what happens in the Eucharist, leave that off to the side. He's evangelical. He enjoys books, running and family. He's a Toronto native, but he's a, a real strong Albertan right now. And I really important voice in Alberta and he is the pastor. He leads a congregation in Grand Prairie, Alberta. So before we dive in and and talk more with him about his book and and some other topics that he's writing about, we're going to start off with our framing aphorisms. And it shouldn't shock our viewers to find that these are rather focused on the Bible today. The first one is from John, chapter 14, verse 6, which reads I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me. And you know, in our modern times of quote UN quote spirituality, people forget that there's only one way to salvation, folks, and it's through our Lord and Savior. Next, from Isaiah chapter 53, verse 6, all we like sheep have gone astray, boy, that's true. We have turned everyone to his own way and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. I recommend, especially at Christmas time, that people read the book of Isaiah, especially chapter 53, because it's probably the most complete explanation or explication of the life of Christ in a short space that exists anywhere in the Bible, including in the Gospels. And it was written, I think about 800 years before Christ was born. Anyway, our next quotation is from John again, chapter 17, verse 17. Sanctify them by your truth. Your word is truth. And next, from a Christian author whom I know Nathan and I both admire very much. At least I gather he admires them because he quotes them fairly often in his writings. CS Lewis, who wrote Don't shine so that others can see you shine so that through you others can see him. From Luther to Today: The Reformation's Global Legacy OK, so Nathan, I want to start off with your book you published on October 27th on your sub stack, your new book announcement. Christ in you 40 homilies for the celebration of the Lord's Supper. First of all, basic principles. Tell us what those of us who who don't know what a homily is. Speaker 2 OK, yeah, so as a pastor during my worship service, we have about a a 30 or 35 minute sermon on a passage of scripture. A homily is basically just like a short 5 minute sermon that briefly explains a certain topic. So I usually preach like a a short 5 minute sermon calling people to confession of sin. Then we have repentance of sin at the beginning of the service. And then basically before we celebrate the Lord's Supper at the end of the worship service that I preach a 5 minute homily just teaching on some aspect of the Lord's Supper. How we see like the the many different aspects or many different aspects of the beauty of the Lord's Supper throughout Scripture? Speaker 1 Hmm, and this book has already received some pretty, uh, wide acclaim. I've got a couple here that are very glowing in praise. 1 from Reverend Dr. Peter J Leithart, who said in many churches the Eucharist imagination has shrunk to a handful of complicated answers to medieval questions about presence. Even in Protestant churches, he says, Eucharist piety is stuck in 14th century self flagellation. Love that sentence. The church will develop a healthier, lovelier Sacramento theology and a more entrancing Sacramento practice if more pastors do what Nathan Ziegfeld does here. I hope his book inspires many imitators. And here's another endorsement. This is from Reverend Jeff Myers, who's in Saint Louis. He says over the past 30 years or so, I've seen a shift in Presbyterian and Reformed churches, not only toward weekly communion, but toward a more robust understanding of the gracious gifts the Lord gives his people at his table. If you're curious about the biblical and theological reasons for this shift, Pastor Zach felt homilies are a great place to start. This is very high praise from some of your peers. I'm sure this is really gratifying for you. I'm curious to know, though, Nathan, going back to when you were thinking about writing the book or or publishing it, what was your inspiration? Why a book of of homilies? Speaker 2 Yeah, so I, I had seen a couple books from so, so Doctor Lighthart was one of my professors when I went for my Bachelor of Arts degree in college. And he had written a book basically of a whole bunch of different teachings on, on various aspects of the Lord's Supper throughout Scripture. So, so I, I had seen a couple writings like this done in the past and I was like, you know, what I think there is, there is a lack of understanding of, of what the Lord Supper is in the modern day church, maybe a truncated understanding of what the Lord Supper is. And so I wanted to kind of imitate what my professor did, Peter Leithart, and then also imitate what, what another pastor I know, Douglas Wilson had done in, in writing homilies on the Lord's Supper and publishing them. And yeah, I basically wanted to to put it out there for for the good of the church. Speaker 1 Now you describe yourself as a Catholic, but yet you are part of the Reformed Church. What does that mean to you? How? How? What? Explain that a little bit. Speaker 2 OK, yeah, So, um, on social media from time to time, I'll, I'll use that word Catholic. I, I think even in my book, I might have used that word Catholic briefly. Yeah. So, so every Sunday in church, we confess as a congregation either the Nicene Creed or the Apostles Creed, right. And then there we confess one holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. When I say that, I'm not saying Roman Catholic, but I'm referring to the Catholic Church, which simply means to the, the Church of all times in all ages. So, so as a as a church gathering in Grand Prairie in 2025, we want to recognize our unity with all true Bible believing churches globally right now as well as over the course of the last 2000 years of history. Speaker 1 Right now you, you describe yourself as a, as somebody who's part of the Reform Church. And I know in some of your conversations, which I, I must say, are always very polite, um, but incisive on, on sub stack with people who are Catholics who harbor a lot of animosity towards Providence, Protestantism. Let's face it, you, you draw very important distinctions. That's, that's sort of try to clarify what the reform theology is all about. I wonder, would you mind just explaining kind of the historical roots of that and how that informs how you pasture your church today? Speaker 2 Yeah, so, so just as a quick overview of of what that looked like. So Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door in Wittenberg and. Speaker 1 15 Allegedly, some people say, yeah, I believe he did, but you know. Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm pretty sure he did too. But yeah, we can quarrel over historical facts. Regardless of that, the Reformation did happen. Yeah. And, and Luther was a major player in the Reformation. And so So what you see happening is you see the Reformation popping up in England with the English reformers and in Scotland with the Scottish reformers, in France with the French Reformers, Switzerland, the Netherlands. And what you see is that it it takes on so largely the Reformation is united across Europe, but it takes on some unique theological aspects in different parts. So Germany and especially the North countries become Lutheran. The Netherlands. You get a very strong contingent of Dutch Reformed churches. You have some very important French reformed reformers, right? Speaker 1 That's right. And so on. Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, so the French Reformation struggled a lot more. A lot of the Huguenots had to flee to Switzerland and to the Netherlands. In England it became the Anglican Church and nowadays the Anglican Church. There are still some conservative Bible believing Anglican churches left, but in Canada the Anglican Church is largely known as a a very liberal denomination. Speaker 1 Yeah, almost progressive. Speaker 2 And very progressive too. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 So, and then you get Presbyterians in, UH, in Scotland. So again, in Canada, often Presbyterianism is known as, as liberal, but there's still many conservative Bible believing ones left. And, and so when I talk about Reformed, I'm talking about especially about the, the confessional truths that were laid out by the Anglicans, the Presbyterians, the Dutch Reformed, the even the Lutherans. I would, I would include within that realm of, of Reformed theology. Speaker 1 Right, right. Yeah. This is a really fascinating and not often mentioned enough aspect of history, isn't it? I mean, when you go back to the Reformation even earlier than Luther was in the early 16th century, but particularly beginning in the 16th century, you could really make a strong argument that the it's the Protestant Reformation might be the, the most significant movement in terms of shaping world history that has happened in the last 500 years. Would you agree with that? Speaker 2 Yeah, I would. I would agree with that. It's it radically transformed the world in the 1500s. And yeah, I think we see so especially with the translations of Scripture, often the the Scriptures were kept out of the hands of the people because it was simply in Latin. And so you had a lot of trouble around the time of the Reformation because guys like William Tyndale and John Wickliffe were translating it into English. You've you've got you've got a proliferation of translation. So the, the Bible gets into the hands of the people again at the time of the Reformation and, and that has, has spread worldwide because you see the effects of Protestantism in India, in Africa and South America. Yeah, I, I, I truly do believe that that Protestantism has led to a spread of, of personal piety, personal holiness, as well as holiness and the Christian family and the Christian home. It's not that these things were not happening in the Roman Catholic Church, but there was, there was a lot of issues with the Roman Catholic Church where the the reformers were trying to open it up and, and, and bring, bring it back to the people again. Speaker 1 Yeah, and I've often thought about the incredibly divine Providence of having the Gutenberg printing press, which is sort of the AI of the 16th century, happened at the very moment when this this monk in eastern Germany is, you know, getting all all excited about, about what's happening in Rome with the Roman Catholic Church. It's really remarkable to see kind of God's work all the way through and all these incredible men, you know, Zwingli and Calvin Wycliffe, all these people just tightens of history, really so important. And, you know, in his own way, you know, St. Thomas More even was a reformer, the patron St. of of all lawyers, even though he didn't go along with the Anglican Church in a lot of ways in his writings was a reformer in his own way. So, so we, we were talking again, I, I warned folks off of the to the top. We were going to be going to be getting into Bible nerd stuff. Alberta Separatism: Grounding Freedom in Godly Principles Now we're getting into a religious history, but really world history and it's, it's even happening today, isn't it? I mean, what I'm noticing and I wanted to get your take on this, Nathan, because you're, you're sort of your sub stack is seems to be kind of a flash point for this, this conversation between Catholics and Protestants and sometimes a source of division. Not in your case, but many people who are, you know, attacking Protestantism, Protestants attacking, attacking Catholicism over doctrinal or things like that. Um, this, this debate that, that started, you know, several 100 years ago, It's ongoing and it's a vibrant today, isn't it? Speaker 2 Yeah, I, I sometimes think about the, the Reformation in terms of, of reconciliation. If, if you have a fight with somebody, hopefully you can get, if you have a, a fight with a family member, let's say, hopefully you can get reconciled within, within a couple weeks or at least a couple years. Sometimes when, when things happen on this massive of a scale, like a global movement, sometimes it takes 500 years for, for reconciliation to happen. And I think some of the claims of the reformers still have not been understood by the Roman Catholic Church. And yeah, I'm, I'm really interested to see what this, this new proliferation of information does with the Internet, with artificial intelligence, what that does in order to actually bring Roman Catholics and Protestants and, and even the Eastern Church back into conversation again about, yeah, questions related to authority, questions related to the authority of God's Word and, and, and how that actually changes the ecclesiastical scene. Because especially if, if you look at Canada, if you look at North America, we see an intermixing of churches in the same city like we've never seen before in history. So, so I've, I've, I kind of interpret Canada, North America as God's ecumenical project where, where it's not like everybody's right, but we're, we're gunning for the truth together. We're opening up God's word together, We're studying Christian doctrine together. And, and maybe we're not doing that as much as we should, but it is happening. Speaker 1 Yeah, very, very interesting. And one of the areas where I guess of, of intersection that you're talking about of reconciliation is law. And of course, this may seem strange as some people, but um, I see Christ is the end of the law, right? And, and the law that kept us bound and, and condemned for our sins came to an end at the cross through the perfect sacrifice of Jesus. That's how I view law, even as a lawyer. That's a lens through which I view the law. And, and so now we live free, we live grateful, we live in true relationship with God and not under condemnation, but under grace. So, so there's no for Christians, there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And, and you just sort of switch in this conversation or turning a little bit towards the law. I find that some of the laws that you talk about on your sub stack that are happening in places like Canada, United States and England elsewhere are very disconnected from that, from any concept of natural law. And I find that that disconnection between what are our natural expectation of what the law is, what our hearts tell us the law should be, what God put there to make us understand his natural law is so far disconnected from the laws that men are making that this this is causing a lot of discord, a lot of division, a lot of hatred, even violence in our world today. What do you think about that? Speaker 2 Yeah, so if I, if I could start from the angle of what what the 1900s thinker G Chesterton said, He said if, if men will not live by the the 10 laws, then they'll be forced to live by 10,000 laws. And you know. Speaker 1 And so I think right, well, that's. Speaker 2 Yeah, so, so the 10 laws, of course, if, if I'm looking at it from the angle that you're, you're talking about it from the 10 laws apart from Christ simply condemn us. But but a Christian society that recognizes the, the work of Jesus Christ for sinners is going to see those 10 laws as, as a beautiful thing, as a place of freedom, as a place of liberty. So Jesus Christ, so, so the three uses or so the way the law works in Scripture is the law when you read it, when you see it, it brings you to a conviction of sin. And then that's supposed to drive you to the cross of Jesus Christ, where you, where you die to your sin and rise to new life in Christ. And that's a gift that's free grace from God. God looks at you and he says this is my son and you are righteous in my son Jesus Christ. And then as as a as a Christian who has been. Freed and given liberty by Jesus Christ. Then you return back to those 10 laws, those 10 commandments and say, wow, this really is the best way of living. My, my sin is slavery. My sin is bondage. But Christ has set me free from the power of sin. And so now, now I'm free to give thanks to God for for that that freedom, that liberty, and to walk in the walk in the way of righteousness. Speaker 1 What a great way to look at the 10 commandments and it's so upside down to what the liberal view is small L liberal folks, that is that, you know, these 10 commandments are there to condemn us. They're, you know, the religion is telling me how to live my life. Whereas what you're saying is that actually those 10 commandments are a gift from God. They're a Declaration of Independence from sin. And then through the cross, of course, then we have the redemption ultimately totally from sin. What a great way to look at at the law, and I think a proper way to look at the law. I'm Speaking of law. Some of the things that you, that you write about on your sub stack, um, are, really are at this intersection between, you know, social issues and politics and religion, if we can call it religion, true religion. And, and so some very interesting pieces you've written. One of them you posted on your, on your sub stack on October 30th, 2025. And I, I really urge people to go and read this, the full article for themselves. But since we have you here, you wrote about Alberta separatism, differing opinions, standing against evil and standing for Christ. What now? And this is a very important perspective on Alberta independence and I, I'd like to get you to talk about it a little bit. And and by way of preface, I went to a A1 of the meetings that that the people with Alberta Prosperity Project. And I know you did too, Nathan, one that was here in Bonneville. And you know, of course, Mitch Sylvester and Doctor Modry and Jeff Roth caught up. And I know these people personally and I know them well. But I but I got up and the question period, I said, OK, you know, you, you say we're gonna be the richest country in the world and we're gonna be so free and everything is going to be great. But I asked them, what kind of society are we going to have when we have all this wealth and all this freedom? Are we going to be good? And how are we going to be good outside of an objective moral standard if our if our, if our Constitution isn't framed in terms of the supremacy of God and the rule of law, which is a natural outgrowth of the supremacy of God? We could have the richest, most corrupt society in the world. We could have more corruption than we have in Ottawa right now. We could make all that look like a picnic. And you kind of write about this in your piece. You want to kind of explain what you're getting at here and what you wrote. Speaker 2 Yeah, so, so more recently I, I saw a quote from TS Eliot where he, he describes of men creating systems that are so perfect that nobody has to be good. Wait, which which I thought was, which was a, it was a real zinger. And I, I think it captures the danger of the Alberta separatist movement in a nutshell. Where, where the Alberta separatist movement, we have this, this idea that that possibly a Republic or because, because I think that's what the Alberta separatist movement is, is gunning for some sort of some form of a constitutional Republic. And, and it's true. I, I think we should work for systems that are good and are well created and form accountability and structures. But no matter what, if you don't have good men in the system, that system is not going to be good. And, and so I think this is where the church needs to come in and to remind men of their need for Christ and their need to be made whole and to be made new in Christ. Yes. So, umm, in, in that article where I was talking about separatism, I was, I was basically talking about the need, the need for the gospel, the need for the gospel, even for, for the left in our society. Because I, I see the left as human beings. I see the left as as men and women in need of the gospel and in need of repentance and faith. So, so fundamentally, that's the foundation for godly men in our society. But then Christian men, Christian men who profess faith in Jesus Christ, need to reflect on, OK, am I living my life in a free way? Am I actually a free man? Am I creating? Am I developing virtue in my life? Am I developing godliness in my life? Or, or am I a man who is, is still struggling with various addictions, various sins that I need to work on in my life? And so a truly free society is gonna be created by, by godly men who are fighting against sin, who are free from those sins and are, are in love with Christ and, and who are developing Christian virtues. Right. And, and at that point, then I say go for it. I say, let, let's, let's create an Alberta that separate from Canada. Let's create a free society. Let's create a society that's built on sound principles for liberty. Speaker 1 Which are essentially have to be grounded in the truth, right That's right. And and they have to be truthful in in all respects. And this has many different applications. In fact, Nathan had a a man recently on our show who happens to be a Christian, but his vocation is he's an expert on gold and silver and precious metals. He's at he's had something really profound that I've never heard before He described gold in the gold standard as an expression of truth of objective truth in currency. And so when you talk about grounding a society and truth that goes all the way down to even the method of exchange. In other words, does our, what is our at all? Or if we print a dollar, what does that represent? Does that represent a false promise of our government that's going to lead to inflation and debt and problems? Or does that represent an expression of an actual tangible truth, which is gold? And I thought that was really fascinating and very telling about the importance of objective truth in our society. And it seems to me in our political class, they've drifted so far from that, so far from an objective moral standard and so far from the concept of the Christian concept of servant leadership, which I, we, I wrote about recently on, on the podcast and published a piece on this. And that's really what you're talking about, because we cannot have proper leadership you described as good men and women serving in society unless they're grounded in this truth, right? That's a sense that's kind of what you're saying. We're not going to have a good society unless we're grounded in truth. And then our leaders are imbued with that and they go out in the world with a concept of servant leadership which relates back to that, that concept of truth, right? Property Rights Under Attack: Morality and Economic Collapse Yeah. So, so leaders who are grounded in a a firm concept of reality, a firm concept of truth, beauty and goodness, I think, I think only then can you have an Alberta that is, it will, will truly be a good idea and will not be a revolutionary society like France or Germany or, or many of those societies that that's separated with the idea of revolting against basic common law, sorry, natural law principles as well as biblical principles. Where whereas in America things did go crazy at the time of the revolution, But you see that when America separated from the British Empire that it was, it was grounded in core principles of truth and and natural law. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a great point. It's one that, for example, people like the late Charlie Kirk spent a lot of time emphasizing in his discourse with students. It's something that is forgotten, you know, when people talk about, oh, well, you know, the Boston Tea Party, you know, notes taxation without representation. But that really wasn't the basis for the American Declaration of Independence. It was something much, much deeper. And that's kind of what you're talking about. If we're going to have an Alberta independence, it has to be based in something much, much deeper. I think that's what you're getting at. And I I couldn't agree with you more. And you and you state this very beautifully in a way that you know, really Christians and non Christians understand. You talk about revolutionary societies. And this is the topic of another piece that you wrote recently in October that's on your sub stack entitled Christ or Communism property rights BC and landing knowledgement across Canada. And and here you say that most recently property rights have come under attack in Canada. Actually, they've been under attack for some time. But before we get to that, check out this news piece from global news. So you have that there on the piece. And you say a whole bunch of homeowners in Richmond, BC got a mean surprise when they received a notice stating that their property that they paid for and cared for doesn't necessarily belong to them. And again, this concept of property rates, we talked about gold, these property rights are based in biblical principles as well, in an objective truth as well. And here we see these concepts are are being whittled away and even destroyed by bad governance. Do you want to talk about this peace, Christ or communism a little bit and why you wrote it? Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. So you're, you're kind of tying it into that, that basis in reality. Yeah. And I, and I think something that I've, I've been having a conversation about with one of my, my friends locally is that this whole idea of property rights and, and grounding a society in this, this idea of private property, that is the basis for wealth within a society as well. You cannot have a society that creates wealth apart from that idea of property rights, right? And, and I think that ties into the gold standard as well. I'm, I'm not totally clear personally on all the, on all the arguments for the gold standard, but I think it's definitely, definitely interesting. And, and this is, this is the thing with, with what I've seen in Canada, I just growing up in Toronto, growing up in Canada, what I've seen is a decline in morality. And the, the Conservative Party of Canada, they've built their modus operandi on defending fiscal values and saying we need to be fiscally wise, we need to be fiscally smart. And they've disassociated that from, from social values and, and questions of morality. But I think first of all, they forget that money is a matter of morality. And second of all, they forget that often a socially corrupt society is going to become a society that is, that is poor. And we might flourish for a time economically while being socially corrupt, but eventually it's just going to end and and the collapse of a society. And you see that, you see that collapse happening, especially in the last five years with the COVID lockdowns, the removal of the removal of rights to gather, rights to travel. I lived in Prince Edward Island for 2 1/2 years during the COVID lockdowns. And I remember having to go through checkpoints in order to get back onto the island and being forced to isolate for, for two weeks heading back onto the island, which is, which is the, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Whatever you make of that, we still have it. And the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is supposed to protect that right, But but that right went out the window. So, so, so you see the, you see property rights disappearing in British Columbia. You see rights of free speech and assembly disappearing during COVID lockdowns. You see the right to life disappearing with abortion and with medical assistance in dying. You see pretty much every historic God-given right disappearing. Yes, and in the meantime, people talk about transgender rights. I'm not even sure that's something that we can talk about it because it doesn't come from God. And in fact, and in fact, when we when we delve into there, the whole hip Hippocratic Oath, I think that's what it's called about do no harm is is actually what we're doing is we're betraying rights by allowing that to happen because doctors are are doing harm. They're doing experimentation in the hospitals. Yeah. So, so currently we're living it upside down society and the only way to set it straight is is to come back to a proper view of reality as well as as Christian morality. Speaker 1 Yeah, I think you're hitting on something really deep here. And for example, you talk about the Hippocratic Oath do no harm. I see that as just another way of saying the Lord's second commandment. If we do no harm, it means we love our neighbor, right? We, we, we would harm our neighbor unless we love them, right? But we can't harm our neighbor because we love them. And and then you talk about property rights. Well, the best statement of property rights ever written is one that you've already mentioned in this conversation. It's the 10 commandments because the whole basis of property rights and we know that they are God-given because they're they're right there in the 10 commandments. Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet. Thou shalt not commit adultery, which is another way of respecting, you know, the sanctity of of another person's family and the relationship between spouses and on and on on. Even thou shalt not kill puts something of a property right or shrouds human life in the protection of the law as a property right. And that's right. That's in our Criminal Code today because we have a distinction between culpable and non culpable homicide. But you're so right, you know, bringing this down to truth is really another way of saying bringing it, bringing it back to scriptural, scriptural truths, which is the the source of all truth. Abraham's Seed: Scriptural Truth Confronts Transgender Ideology Now, Speaking of scriptural truth, gonna turn to another piece you wrote on Sub Stack called Abraham Seed. This is a more recent one you just published. And this is a really fascinating analysis of Genesis chapter 12 verses one to three and its implications across scripture. And it has implications for the things we've been talking about too, doesn't it? Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 Would you mind just kind of elaborating on that? Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. So I can talk a little bit about that. So Genesis 12 verse one to three is a a very well known passage of Scripture. And in Genesis 12 verse one to three, God gives gives Abraham a promise and he says here, I'll, I'll read that here for a second. Now the Lord, the Lord said to Abram, go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation and I will bless you and make your name great so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you and him who dishonors you, I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. Later on in Genesis 22, verse 18, God says, And in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because you have made my voice. And so there's there's debates within Christianity about what exactly that that seed or that offspring refers to. Now, I would, I would argue based on the the trajectory of Scripture and the pattern of Scripture that that seed primarily refers to Christ and to all those who are found in union with Christ, whether Jew or Greek, slave or free. It's it's through that eschatological Israel that all the nations of the earth will be blessed. And so and and you see that throughout Scripture is Genesis 3 verse 15. I I will put enmity between your offspring and the seed of the serpent, right. So the the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent is that historical battle and ultimately that comes to climax or that comes to fullness in Christ, who is, is the, the true seed of Eve and Adam and Eve as well as the true seed of Abraham as well as the true seed of, of, of David. God promised David, I will place a son upon your throne and he will rule forever. So when Christ Jesus Christ, when he ascended into the heavens and he said all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me, basically Christ was claiming to be the fulfillment of that promise to David that he will be the King who who reigns eternally upon the throne of David. So so basically that article was just trying to lay out an overview of how those promises about the seed or the offspring are are pointing forward to Christ and all the fullness that is found in Christ. Speaker 1 I this piece was very poignant because around the same time that I read it on your sub stack, we had a gentleman on our program who who was talking about a new documentary film that he had made. His name is Dinesh Dsouza and the the film was called The Dragons Prophecy. It's based upon a book written by Jonathan Kahn. And the interesting thing about this, I don't know if you've seen it yet, Nathan, if you haven't, then I recommend you do because, OK, what it does is it talks about Israel, the dark resurrection and the end of days. And, but it, what it does is it puts what's happening, for example, in Israel and Gaza in the context of scriptural prophecy. And, and it basically it says that the serpent that you described that's in Eden is the dragon in the Book of Revelation. And it's a great, it's a very compelling story because it helps to frame what's going on in the world geopolitically very much in terms of what's in scripture, which I see in is a lot of what you try and do in your writing where you, you talk about very topical events, for example, property rights in DC or the independence movement, but always bringing them back to what does it say in the world in the word of God? What does it mean for us, you know, and how do we deal with it? How do we understand what's happening in a, in a, you know, in a scriptural, in a Christian context? And, and so I just wanted to mention that when I, when I was very timely, when I read your piece, it was like, Oh, yeah, well, this fits totally in with what they're talking about in this Dragons prophecy. So if you haven't checked that out, I encourage you to do that. We also, we had a great sit down, not not to self promote here, but it is our show. We had a great interview with Dinesh Dsouza. We had sat down for about 45 minutes. And you might want to check that out too, because I think you you would find that really fat really fascinating. Closer to home, I wanted to ask you about a couple of new bills that have come, are coming into effect in Alberta that are very controversial and I haven't seen you written up right about these yet, but maybe you have one. One of them is Bill 9, formerly known as Protecting Alberta's Children's Statutes Amendments Act, which which came out during what's, what people call Trans Awareness Week and days before another thing called Trans Day of remembrance. And so this, uh, what's happened is this bill invokes the notwithstanding clause in the charter, which you talked about earlier to shield three previously passed laws from potential judicial challenges. And though these these include Bill 26, which bans a gender affirming healthcare for transgender youth. That's a really important one for, for example, for pastors, Bill 27, which requires parental consent for students to use a preferred name or pronouns in schools, and Bill 29, which restricts Chan transgender girls and women. I don't recognize the existence of that category, by the way, from participating in female sports. But Danielle Smith says that the stakes were were the highest and the move was necessary to protect Children's Health and safety. This is very controversial in our problems right now, and I wanted to get your take on this. Do you see this as something that, you know, as a Christian pastor is encouraging? Or do you think that, for example, the government didn't go far enough in sort of rejecting the untruth, the lie that is that is transgender ideology? Speaker 2 Yeah, So I, I think as a Christian pastor, I would say both. I would say it's very encouraging that Danielle Smith is doing what she's doing to protect children. I agree, because I, I think it's really important to, to protect kids from these, from these dangerous ideologies and, and especially children who are are very young and vulnerable to lies and to confusion. I, I'm very happy to see Danielle Smith doing this would say as well, she is not going far enough because adults struggle with mental health challenges and there, there should not be opportunity to, to get these kinds of surgeries in the hospitals. I, I, I think adults who struggle with these things need careful and compassionate and biblical counseling, but, but they should not be getting, getting surgeries which many, many are now claiming to regret receiving so many years later. There's, there's more and more people who got surgery who are now detransitioning from their surgeries and, and they regret not being told the truth and, and hearing these lies. Speaker 1 Yeah, it seems that, you know, bringing this down to the level that we seem to be, our touchstone of this conversation seems to be lies versus truth, which is another way of saying good versus evil. And I think what you're saying, and I totally agree with this, is that if transgenderism is a lie and it is folks, then it's a lie for everyone, not just for children, for everyone, for adults too. And we have to reject it totally, utterly and completely because it is lies. It's not truth. The truth of human sexuality is their in Scripture. It's right there in the book of Genesis and it's consistent all the way through. And the, well, I think what you're saying and I think what Christian pastors need to say is that that is the truth. And we have to speak the truth. We have to preach that. We have to teach that to our children. And if we do that, we're not going to have to be concerned about, uh, sort of dealing with these lies and confusion that lead into human mutilation, destruction and even suicide. So, yeah, I think that very valid point there. Protecting Free Speech and Churches in Turbulent Times Another piece of law that came out I wanted to get your take on is Bill 13. And this is the one formerly titled the Regulated Profession Professions Neutrality Act. It's called the Jordan Peterson Law, and this one was very recently introduced by Justice Minister Mickey Amery. And this bill aims to protect regulated professionals such as lawyers and doctors from disciplinary actions by their licensing bodies for statements made outside of work hours, asserting that such actions constitute overreach and threaten free expression. Which you write about a lot, Jason or Nathan, sorry. The legislation would apply to all regulated professions and skilled trades in Alberta, even if if it conflicts with other governing legislation and the government argues the bill ensures professionals can freely express themselves while still receiving fair treatment. What's your take on this, on this particular law? Speaker 2 I think that again, is another great law in order to protect the conscience of doctors, for example, or teachers in the public school system. Or I guess blue collar workers don't have to worry as much about expressing their opinions. Like, I know, I know a number of oil patch workers in my church who are who, who freely express their opinions. Yes. But yeah, I, I do know of doctors who freely express their opinions, but there is definitely a lot more carefulness about that kind of thing in the hospital system or in the public schools or, or maybe public services or something like that, if somebody's working for the city or for the government. And so I think this is a very good thing. I think Danielle Smith is, is very tactically smart in, in putting this bill forward because for the last 20 years, people have been increasingly censored, not by government government, but by the pressure of popular opinion, the pressure of possibly losing your job. And I, I don't think that just started in the last five years that's been going on for 20 or 20. Speaker 1 Five years self censorship. Yeah, I can tell you as a Bible thumping lawyer who moonlights as a podcaster, this is a very welcome development in a lot of ways because again, it comes back to lies versus truths. Looking at the example of doctors, doctors were not permitted to prescribe Nobel Prize winning medicines like ivermectin to people during COVID. And now that's a form of lying. That's a form of untruth. And doctors are still prohibited in our province from answering questions about the risks associated with COVID-19 vaccination drugs, which are still available in Alberta. Doctors cannot answer those questions honestly. So we still have this problem. And again, and Speaking of the legal profession, the the Law Society of Alberta has adopted fully, you know, progressive woke speak in terms of, you know, critical race theory, DEI, certain views of Canadian history in terms of colonialism and colonial exploitation and so on. That's been adopted as the official dogma, if you will, of the legal profession. So it's very dangerous for people like me, for example, to come on in and speak to the country. So again, coming back, Nathan, again to lies versus truth, you know, you know, live not by lies. And so this is an encouraging development. The only thing that concerns me a little bit is, and again, this is the conspiracy theorist in me is this might be a bit of a Trojan horse. Because remember, the, the professions, especially things like medicine and law were set up to be independent of state of the state for obvious reasons. And now with the state having to step in and check the growth of this ideology within the self governing professions, what that does is it, it opens a door that really can't be closed where the state is coming in and exerting control over those professions. And you know, the people who on the left who play this long game, they might be saying, OK, great. Because, you know, Danielle Smith and Mickey Amery aren't always going to be in government. And tomorrow or on some future day, it might be someone like Mr. Nenshi. And he'll take a different view of things, but he will take advantage of the, the paved Rd. into the, into these professions and set rules. So I, I don't want to, I don't want to go go too far down that road, but that is something that is a as a concern. But I think what's most important for people within these professions, and I expect you to agree with this, is coming back to your description of good men and good women. If we have good people in those professions, we're not going to have to worry about, you know, people speaking lies. Will we? Speaker 2 Yeah, that's right. And and I think what you mentioned about possibly Mr. Nancy taking it in a in a bad direction, I think that shines the spotlight again on on how rights are viewed and how rights are used. If you see a right as a, as a God-given, as a God-given thing to protect, uh, to protect the rights of citizens, then, then, yeah, it's a good thing. But the left is going to take those rights and they're going to spin it and use it for something that is, is the opposite of what God-given rights and freedoms were initially intended to be. And, and, and so I think, I think that's where we do need more good men to step up, to speak out, to get into politics and to, to do things. Because we need more, more people in this province exposing the way that that men like Mr. Nenshi are going to abuse historic rights and freedoms and, and, and, and twist them and, and warp them into something that they they are not. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it's again, lies versus truth, good versus evil, 101 other law. I wanted to ask you about which sort of hits closer to home for you as a pastor. And I know that I've heard from many of your colleagues in the clergy about this is revocation of status for churches. The CR A revoked the charitable status of some religious charities in October of this year after audits revealed failures to meet transparency and accountability requirements for their international operations, affecting their ability to raise funds and issue tax receipts. And so it seems like this federal government is using that again as a, as an, as an invitation. Now it is or justification for saying, OK, well, we need to review the charitable status of all Church of all churches. And this was actually put forth in the most recent federal budget. I expect this is a a concern to you as a as a leader of your of your church. Speaker 2 Yeah. So I, I, I think what the government is doing is they're using the revocation, revocation of charitable tax status for independent charities as kind of the Trojan horse to start taking away charitable tax status from churches. That threat has been on pregnancy care centres, for example, for quite a while that if they counsel someone not to get an abortion, then they'll have their charitable tax status removed. And so it's, it's a way of putting pressure. So as a pastor, I, I think there is a case for having this charitable tax status for churches, that churches are not taxed as churches because they are a, a foreign embassy. They're an embassy of the Kingdom of heaven, an embassy of the, of the King of kings and the Lord of Lords. So, so I think that there is a biblical case for, for having this, this tax break for churches. That being said, if if the government removes that for churches, then churches are going to have to take it because we can't compromise on the truth. We cannot compromise on the ministry of the Word and the sacrament, which is our primary calling, which is to be active in the ministry of the Word and sacrament in the in the care of souls. So, so we we can't allow that to make us compromise and I'm sure it will make many churches compromise. But at the same time we we have the battle hymn of the Reformation. A mighty fortress is our God. Let goods and kindred go this mortal life also the body they may kill God's truth abideth still his Kingdom is forever. And so as as churches, we do need to sing more. A mighty fortress is our God and, and say, you know what this this is our duty before God. We must obey God before men and, and if you take away our charitable tax status, then so be it. But in the meantime, we have to be faithful. Speaker 1 Yeah, this is our Lord said. You know, give unjust Caesar what is Caesars give unto the Lord, Where is the Lords right? But it does it, it does reflect this growing tension between fiscal policy and religious freedom, doesn't it? And as you say, we as Christians are are are members of churches. We're going or really the body of Christ. We're going to have to walk out our faith, won't we? And we're going to have to really take responsibility for for that faith, including, you know, fiscal responsibility. I've got one more question for you before we close off on our reading list. This one's a bit tongue in cheek, but so so I want to get your opinion. What is the biggest threat to Western civilization? Is that Mister Putin and Russia? Is it Xingping and China? Is it the growth of Islam in the West or white liberal women with liberal arts degrees? What do you think? We can add one more all the above if you like. Speaker 2 OK, I, I would say radical Islam is a major problem, but the white liberal woman with liberal arts degrees who are, who are controlling their husbands and, and telling their husbands you're not allowed to speak up. I, I think that I think they're one of the, one of the greatest dangers. I, I think what we need is we need wise women who exalt the voice of wisdom in the gates of the city. They need to encourage their, their husbands, their, their men to go into battle and to serve well. We need mothers who encourage their sons to live as godly men without being over overprotective. We need, we need wise mothers to send their send their sons into battle for God. Spiritual battle. I'm speaking about here, yeah. And yeah, so, so I would say white liberal women with liberal arts degrees, I would say is probably the greatest. Speaker 1 Threat to the West. Well, you know, and in and in fairness, what we're really, we've been talking a lot on on this conversation about truth and lies. And, you know, this radical feminism, which says that, you know, a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle is part of these really big evil lies that tear away that contradict biblical truth. And, and really they, they hurt women more than anyone else, don't they? And that's really what you're saying is that, you know, and, and, and folks, you could check the data for me if you or for yourself, you know, these, these women feminists want women, liberal women are the most miserable women and perhaps the most miserable people in our society. And there might be a very good reason for that. And I think, I think Pastor Nathan has spilled the tea on that. Finding Strength and Hope Through Union with Christ So I want to close off with our reading list. And of course the book, the writing today is, and we're very, very grateful to be able to do so, is Pastor Nathan's book, Christ in You 40 Homilies for the Celebration of the Lord's Supper, which he's talked about. And here he shares 40 homilies for the Lord's Supper that he's preached in Christ Covenant Church of Grand Prairie, Alberta. I'm looking forward at some point to get I'd love to go there and be there and and be in your congregation once and they and meet you in person and shake your hand and experience some of these wonderful homilies. And in publishing the book, he seeks to bless the broader church with liturgical and educational content for the Reformation of the church and our growth and understanding of the sacrament of the Lord's Supper, Eucharist and Communion, which is so foundational to our to our faith. And he says the book is intended to be a resource for pastors and elders as they consider how to shape their liturgies and bolster their understanding of the sacrament of the Supper. But it's also, and this is an important point, he says, the handy resource for us that can be used as devotional material or to enhance our own understanding of how God serves us in love at this holy table. So we're adding that to reading. That's a very, very grateful to be able to do so. Nathan, I want to thank you so much for taking this time with us, as our with us to get to know you better, to learn more about your book. You've told us what a homily is. You've explained so much, but also I think you've done so much to elucidate what's really going on in our in our world today and, and our role in it. You know, we're really dealing with this battle between principalities and powers. We're in a good and evil struggle, aren't we? And you've done so much today to frame that and to, to bring that not only into our minds, but into our hearts. And, but I'm curious maybe to leave off, um, what message would you leave with people who were listening to this, hearing you talk today or reading your book about things that they can do in their daily lives to maybe feel not so afraid, maybe to feel closer to God, maybe to feel more hopeful, more inspired and full of grace. What would you say to people? Speaker 2 Yeah, I'll bring it. I'll bring it round, circle back-to-back to the book that we initially started discussing Christ in you. Union with Christ is central and it is crucial to living out your Christian life in this world because it's through faith in Christ, it's through the knowledge of Him, it's through union with Him that that you have the strength to fight against evil in your home from day-to-day in your own life, in your own heart. So, so finding a, a good Bible believing church, participating in the sacraments, getting baptized, participating in the Lord's Supper. The the purpose of the Lord's Supper is so that you would experience communion with Christ, and in in participating in partaking of the bread and wine, the life of Christ flows into you. And and so there's something very spiritually powerful about participating in the worship of the church, participating in communion in the sense that it's it's building that relationship with Christ and that knowledge and love for him. And then of course, during the week, just living it out with your family by reading the scriptures with your children, by teaching the Bible, by teaching the things of God to your family. If you're a single reading the scriptures by yourself, whether at meal times or before bed or when you wake up in the morning, coming to a deeper knowledge of Christ and something that I recently preached through was was the kingship of Hezekiah and Hezekiah is the the example of a man who walked and talked with God in the midst of a sinful world. He was constantly praying to God. He was constantly seeking God's face. And so one of the ways in which, and this was the original intent for man was to walk and talk with God. That was Adam in the garden and that was broken by sin and Jesus Christ restores that in union with Christ, you're able to walk and talk with God. You're able to fellowship with the triune God, to know God as your Father, to know the experience of, of the work of the Holy Spirit in your life. And um, and so, so daily prayer and Bible reading, fellowshipping with God, recognizing your work, whether it's the work of a mother in the home or whether it's the work in the workplace that you're doing. All of that is worship to God. Yeah, those are those are my final music. Speaker 1 Wonderful. So if people expect people do there, they will want to know more about you and you're writing. They can they can find you on sub stack where you you publish often, I think almost on a daily basis. Of course, your book is available on Amazon and elsewhere, but there's also the Chinook podcast, which you you're involved with. And here are the description is we anticipate in faith the day when the wind of the Holy Spirit will move to thaw the hearts of our fellow of our fellow countrymen. I love that. So the podcast is also available on Apple and Spotify and other places, isn't it? So if people want to find more about you and what the, the, the thought that you're producing, um, those are the places where they could find you. Did I miss anything? Where else can people find your content? Speaker 2 Um, yeah, so I'm, I'm on sub stack, I'm on X, I've got that podcast. Um, I think that's basically the, the sum of it. Yeah, my, my church is Christ Covenant Church of Grand Prairie. I think it's Christ covenant.ca. So you can you can find my sermons as well as my elder sermons on that website. Speaker 1 Yeah, well, I want to thank you so much for all that you're doing to inspire Albertans and for speaking truth, for sharing the Word of God and sharing your deep understanding of it with people through the various media that you're publishing. I really think that you are an important thought leader in our province and in our country, and I think people are going to be hearing more about you. And I'm very pleased that Gray Matter has been a part of that propagation of of your theology and your thought here. So thank you so much for being our special guest here today. I hope God will continue to bless you and your church and your family and all the work that you're doing. Speaker 2 Thank you.