Chrissie Rucker On Entrepreneurship, Christmas Décor & Building The White Company | SheerLuxe Conversations

Hello and welcome to this Sherlock's Success Stories podcast. I'm Georgie Koroshkol, founder and CEO of Sherlock's. And today, I am joined by Chrissy Rucker, founder of the white company and one of this country's most inspiring entrepreneurs. And today, we will be talking about the brand's beginnings, the enduring appeal of white and how to make this Christmas and the everyday feel beautiful and effortless. (upbeat music) Chrissy, welcome. Hi, Georgie. I'm so privileged to be here. I'm also staggered that you are, and I meant what I said. I struggle to know who has achieved what you have for 30 years. I said the other day at an event I interviewed you at to celebrate your 30 years that honestly, when I started Sherlock's, if I'd written down the five women that inspired me the most, you were on that list and used to laugh and that is the most incredible. Oh, thank you. Before we get going, I am going to ditch the coat, but I just, we need to give a moment to the coat because you hosted a lovely event at your beautiful house that we're in now, the press. Yes, for our 30th birthday. We had a great talent and you had a rail set up next door and everyone was going absolutely nuts. Yeah, that's the coat. Even my daughters love that coat. Unfortunately, it's sold out, so we're going to have to try and get some more. You've got to get some more, it is so good. So I'm going to really, really sadly lose the coat, but I felt like I had to start with it on because I'm so good at it. Anyway, give you one second, the coat's gone. We always start a show like podcast with what our guests are wearing. I hope it's pretty obvious. I'm a huge fan of this jumper, it's this new collection. Yes, yes, you're looking great in your lingerie. I'm so happy. Heaven, I've dressed up with subutes and I sort of love that you can take something a bit cash and wear it loads of different ways. So yeah, this is, this is. It looks fantastic, no, it looks great. It's definitely one of my favourite pieces. It's got some really nice boxy top and actually you've really gone on a journey with women's wear, haven't you? Yes, we've got a fantastic new director. She's amazing, completely transformed the range, really elevated it, really improved the quality. I'm so excited and we've got some fantastic new collections in the pipeline. And the excitement here at your party was palpable. There were influencers, press of all different sort of ages and stages and it was just universal, but everybody was getting mad for this sort of new iteration of white company women's wear. Anyway, so the jumper is... It's one of the awesome collection. It's just this really lovely bootclay and it's got a little bit of alpaca in it. Lovely and it's not itchy. Not itchy, really soft, really warm, really cozy. It's got cold and then these are fantastic new barrel leg jeans, which have sold brilliantly actually. - You're living in these, aren't you? - Yes, I love these jeans and they come in lots of different colours and they're fantastic. Can we take a moment for the fact you've cut all your hair off? I know, I know. I'm not quite used to it yet, so... I love it! If I fiddle with it a lot, I apologise. Well, I dream of having hair that short. Unfortunately, I've got really wavy hair so it's really, it's quite tricky. Anyway, Chrissy, sorry, we can sit and church up for hours but we've got lots to get through. I mean, 30 years, it's just, it's incredible to still be in the position that you are and still so loved. I mean, you're part of this country's DNA. I mean, we'd be lost without you but can you take us back to the beginning and how it all started? I think lots of people know but for everyone that doesn't, they should know. What inspired you to start the business? 30 years ago, I was a journalist and I was working at Alps and Queen and Nick, who's now my husband, he was a young businessman. He'd just started his business, he'd started Charles Tirrett shirts. I was just incredibly inspired watching him start his business and actually loving going into work every day. But basically, the long and short of it was he bought his first home and he was very busy, he was working incredibly hard and he just said, "Can you just, can you just help me get the basics?" I was a stylist, I was working on a magazine, I was used to doing shoots and I just thought, "God, this is going to be so easy." And off I went and complete disaster. I was totally overwhelmed by colour and pattern. I came home and it was just a disaster, I didn't buy anything. The thing I loved is that you said that it was either really cheap crap or really expensive and there was nothing between which... Yeah, so... It was part of the opportunity, wasn't it? The first thing was this sort of this kind of barrage of colour and pattern and none of it just felt right. So then I came home and sort of with my magazine hat on. I just, you know, I love that. If you're doing a shoot and you look through the lens of the camera, you often look through the lens of the camera and a picture becomes so much better if you take things out rather than add more in. So I just thought, you know, I'm going to keep it simple. I'm just going to buy the basics in white. I'm going to buy white sheets, white towels, white bathrobes. And so I went back out to do that the next day and that's when I discovered that, basically, there was this really big gap. So at one end of the scale, you had design, fantastic quality, very expensive. And then we had High Street, which was much, much more affordable but poor quality. We had breakfast with Nick's sister one morning and she'd just done exactly the same thing. And we sat there having coffee. We started talking about, wouldn't it be great if there was this company that just sold white things? That's how it started. It's amazing. What I love is it's sort of come full circle and trends come and go. Show Lux is 18 and in the lifespan of Show Lux, we've seen more and more and more and more. But there is just this enduring appeal for white that always works. And there's actually never been more of a moment, I feel like, your 30 years is sort of at the perfect time, isn't it? Because it's never been more, you know, with all the noise and the clutter of life. It's just sitting here so calm, I mean, I never want to leave. It's really amazing that 30 years on, you have remained so true to that mission and evolved range, but that DNA hasn't changed. I mean, when you start to do your first home, what I realised very quickly is it's expensive. So you don't want to make mistakes. And for me, I think of white being a little bit like the perfect black dress in the wardrobe. White in the home is, it's always stylish. It's also always calm. It's calm. It's never going to let you down and it doesn't date. And you can build on it. You can do it by bit, can't you? I think it's really interesting looking around and seeing your accessories and they probably, I know that's quite a big bit of your business now as well, but you can layer it quite a bit over time. There isn't that pressure to have the look all on day one. What we've done here is we've painted the house one colour the whole way through. We've painted the skirting boards, the ceilings, everything is one colour. Which, by the way, is like the best interiors hack ever. I was told that years ago about how calm it was and it just sort of carries through the house, isn't it? So I love that you say that. It builds the most fantastic calm canvas and then you can just build on that and you can layer in your artwork, layer in your texture. And you can layer in other colours, don't you? I mean, yes, you're the white company. You're not just white though, there's ivories, there's e-mails, right? It's sort of a white palette, isn't it? Yes, I think over the years we've slightly cheated. We definitely see white as not being just one colour. We have hundreds of different white names, you know, from ivory to chalk, to bone, to alabaster and lots and lots of lovely layers of neutrals. Neutrals are gorgeous layered in. Can we just talk about the fact that what you've built is so phenomenal? How many tools do you have? By the end of the year we'll have over 80. I mean, think back to your 24 and yours as business. It says here, did you ever imagine what a stupid question? Of course, he didn't, no one does. But, wow, I mean, that is the achievement and you're growing and you're building for the next 30 years. You're more involved in the business than ever, I believe, working harder than ever. When you think back to you at 24, can you believe it? The wonderful thing was actually is that, you know, Nick was there and he was actually that person who kept saying to me, "You can do this." And I often wonder if he hadn't been saying that, whether I would have had the confidence to start. But he gave me the strength to have a go. And I just thought, you know what, I'll give myself a year. And if it doesn't work out, I'm 24, I'll get another job. He obviously heard it was a good idea, though. I think he loved the idea and I'm very happy to be sitting here 30 years later. Having that person rooting for you is so important, isn't it? Having great mentors as you go on your journey is absolutely essential. And would you say he's been a mentor? Oh, I mean, yeah, he's been the most fantastic mentor. And as you go on the journey, there are lots of people who come in and out of your life. The members of the team, you know, I had the most wonderful chairman for 15 years. I mean, he was such a mentor to me. And how did you find him? Somebody said to me once, I hope you met Tony Campbell, he'd be the most amazing chairman for you, but you'll never get him. So I went to have breakfast with him. - Red rice for balls? - And I loved him. After breakfast, I thought we'd had the most brilliant breakfast. And he talked to me a lot about vegetables and how he doubled sales of vegetables. He used to be at ASDA. He was Archie Norman's right-hand man at ASDA. We had a great breakfast and I thought, it's a slam dunk. - You know, he's going to say yes. - Thank you all for the white company. It's a natural bar. And then he rang me up and said, I'm really sorry, but I actually don't do private businesses because he was always a private equity chairman. So I sulked for two weeks and then I thought, you know what? I'm just going to ring him up because I had nothing to lose. So I sort of rang him up and said, Tony, I know you're not going to come be chairman, but if you've just got a cup of ass, will you come? Can't just come walk around the store with me and take a look at it and tell me what you think. And he said yes. And so he came and then he stayed for 15 years. - Love it. - Yeah. Love it. - You talk about quite luxury a lot. - Yes. You talked about that, I feel, long before it became this buzzword. We all know what it means, but talk to us about the fact that it's always been at the heart of everything you do. And I mean, just sitting here in your beautiful home, it sort of screams quite luxury. You yourself are sort of so warm and so kind and clearly steely, but I'd say it's in you, it's in your home, it's in your business. I studied couture. I left school when I was 16 and I studied couture, so I learnt to... - Did you? - Yes. Why did you leave school when you were 16? School and I didn't really click, I don't think. I'm dyslexic and so not very academic, but I left school at 16 because I wasn't thriving at school and I came to London and I went and studied couture. That's where I really thought, yes, now I think I'm finding myself. Where did you study couture? So in London, it's a tiny little college and I learnt to pattern cut and tailor and you learn that it is all about the detail. The detail of the calf, the cut, how it sits, the collar, how it sits, the fabric, how it drapes, how it falls. You know, detail really matters and that detail really makes or breaks an item. That taught me so much and whenever I look at product, I look at it and I always think, yes, that's lovely, but how can we push that one step further? How can we make it even even lovelier? That's fascinating, I didn't know that you did that and I can really see, I know your devil is in the detail. Can you talk to me about how you applied that learning to the white company, how you used it to evolve this quiet luxury and bring that training together with this brand that you've created? What the training gave me was this phenomenal attention to detail. Quiet Luxury has been at the heart of the brand from the day we started and the thing I love about Quiet Luxury is it always stays relevant. It doesn't date. They're pieces that you will use and love for many, many years to come. I think for us it has never been about fast or fashion or disposable. It's about really considered design. You were really ahead of your time because 30 years ago, we weren't as conscious consumers as we are today. Sustainability wasn't on the tip of everyone's tongue. You were really ahead of your time in that sense, weren't you? About not replacing everything and not being vast and being slow. It's the affection that you build. I think you've really stopped to think about that, but you were way ahead of it. You were way ahead of everybody else. When I look back to my Condé Nastes, there were the editors and then there were the assistants and the editors were dressed in head to tail beautifully in Chanel or Burberry. But the assistants had to be clever about what they wore. We didn't earn very much. And you learn to have beautiful, simple foundation pieces and then it's better to buy one good piece every year than lots of disposable pieces. You referenced your time in magazines. For anyone listening that doesn't know, so you left Couture School, and did you go straight into magazines from there? My first year of I went to work for a wedding dress designer. Did you? Yes. And for Anna-Lisa Sharp and Philippa Lepley, who's very still going strong today, was working for her as well and then went on to start her own brand. But anyway, she suggested that perhaps I wasn't going to be a very famous fashion designer and why didn't I go and work for a magazine? So that's how it started. And I went to Condé Nast and I spent seven years on different magazines. I started as a receptionist, but it was actually the best job in the world. It was the dream job in it. It really was, yeah. Yeah, it was fantastic. And I love that thing of just seeing everybody step out of the lip and seeing what they were wearing, which, yeah, looking back on that, I suppose maybe that had quite an influence. Which titles were you on? GQ was my first job actually. GQ was fashion assistant. Then I went to Brides and I did Hassan Garden. I worked for Bogue for a short time for the amazing Anna Harvey. And then I ended up at Harpers & Queen. So you left the magazine world. That's when you started The White Company? Yes. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that's a pretty awesome roster of magazines that you worked on. You clearly worked with some of the best stylists, interior designers in the industry. What did you learn from them that you then went on to apply to The White Company? I look back on my days in magazines as just being the most phenomenal training actually. I feel so lucky to have gone through that training. Because, first of all, it teaches you about brand. Because each title has its own unique handwriting. Each title has to have a consistent look and feel and a consistent tone of voice. As I've gone on the journey through The White Company, you know, I've been lucky enough to work with some brilliant interior designers, some brilliant stylists. And I just loved working with them. I loved working with them. I loved learning from them. And what they taught me is there's some really simple tips and tricks that are really easy to replicate. So, very much at the heart of what we do now is we love to inspire. Because, you know, what I discovered when I was doing Nick's first flat was, you know, I am not a natural stylist, but I really wanted to learn how to do it. And then I think when we're developing ranges, we think really hard about how do we make the ranges work beautifully and effortlessly together. And that I have honestly still got pieces for my wedding list now in my house from The White Company. And that's what is so clever. And I think it's amazing. You go to these hotels and you see this incredible shelf styling where you go to these very arty people and you say, "God, how could I ever create that?" You've really, you've democratized good style, haven't you? And the other thing that's amazing, and I'm getting slightly off topic here is, is I think your pricing is so wonderful and so refreshing. And, you know, we talk about quiet luxury. But you really make it achievable. You make, you make, I know, luxury is the most above used word, but you really do make it feel possible for everybody and not daunting. And as a customer, I feel those collections work together. And that's, that's better for everybody. Getting the price right for every item was, was a big part of what I wanted to deliver with the company. And the moment I knew I could do it was when I found my first factories, because I found the factories that were supplying the designer brands that I loved. And then I realized that I, we could buy directly from the factories, supply directly to the customer for a much lower price. But it, yet it was exactly the same quality. I couldn't be more genuine when I say, I think it's incredible how you go into a white garment store, and you can buy a candle for X, or you can buy a beautiful throw for a lot more, or a yummy cashmere set, or a shilling coat. And the level of service is the same. It does feel luxurious. It does feel special. I think it's really incredible that you have the number of stores that you have. You maintain this price point. And I just don't think that should be underestimated for a second. Customer service really, really matters. I mean, it really matters. I just, there's nothing more depressing, I think, than going into a store, just being left to wander around it, and then doing a self-service check-out. I remember having an awful pretty woman moment right back at the beginning. Some rather snooty sales assistant sort of waving me off to the cheaper department, you know, making me feel that I shouldn't have been in that department. I hope you've gone back there and said huge mistake. Great customer service is, I mean, it's absolutely essential. It's really amazing. And even at Christmas, when it's heavey, can we talk about Christmas? Because it's a huge part of your business. It's a huge part of Christmas. Imagine Christmas without the white company. I mean, it's just not really worth thinking about it. How many orders do you dispatch a day in your Christmas period, roughly? Currently, we will switch from shipping anywhere between 2,000, 3,000, 5,000, 8,000 orders a day. And then on Christmas comes, we switch to shipping up to 25,000 orders a day. And we have to look after 70 stores. Christmas is such a great time of the year, isn't it? I mean, it is, I think it's one of the most magical times of the year. But, you know, it's also, it's a challenge. And I think if you're working and you're busy as well, just getting ready for Christmas. Because we all want Christmas to be as gorgeous and as perfect as we can manage. So, I mean, how do I tackle it? I, yeah, how do you and someone in my office, can you please just ask her how she does Christmas? I would like to know how Chrissy Rackett does Christmas, how do you handle it? I have a friend who once said to me, just get all your Christmas presents done by the end of November. And I remember hearing that thinking, crikey, you know, and then I did it and it changed everything. We have a big family and so I have to be really, really organised. I have a spreadsheet. Can we please have your other golden rules for creating a home that feels really Christmasy and magical and welcoming? And you must love it when all your children are here and they're all together. And it's the best feeling. What are your golden rules for getting it right? Yeah, well, I think children always know that Christmas is coming when I start to light a winter candle. I think that's sort of, there's nothing lovelier than winter scents at Christmas times. So whether it's fir tree or winter or myrrh or clementime and juniper or winter, definitely. Yeah, I mean, that's that's the year is winter. I used to love mixing aromatherapy ores and and I was just playing about with a with an oil burner and I just did drops of cinnamon, clove and orange and that was the idea came from. I do love your myrrh as well, I have to say. Yes, myrrh is kind of really rich and warming. And actually we've got fantastic new Tonka bean scent this Christmas, which which is really that I'm really excited. Tonka is just such a good note, isn't it? But I think it's start. I mean, I love this idea of sort of, you know, building up to Christmas and doing it in layers. So my the way I go us do it is I start with a foundation of greenery. So I kind of get the greenery baseline in which will be, you know, lovely garlands across fireplaces, across surfaces, I weave them in and out of tabletops. And then I put some lovely storm lanterns and candles. So so the foundation hat for me is always greenery and fairy lights. And then I just start to build on that. When do you start your greenery? I start putting the greenery out in at the end of November. Christmas tree comes much later. I used to be quite a snob about for I now love both together. Yes. I think you will have given a lot of people will be able to breathe a sigh of relief. But Chrissy Rockett says definitely used both a combination of the two. Then I think it's great to pick a theme. Yeah. We actually end up, I mean, sometimes we're 26 people for Christmas. So I then end up doing meals in slightly different places. And I do end up doing a couple of different trees. So I'll pick a theme for the tree in the hall. And I'll pick a theme for the tree that goes in the pool house. And so I like to keep it really simple. You know, one or two tones. Yeah. I'm never going to be your multi-coloured girl. No, no, I'd be upset if you said anything else. So this year I'm going to go for glass. And we've got these really gorgeous warm bronze big glass baubles coming. But that's the lovely thing about your decorations as well is that they just, they build, don't they? You keep having to them. Yes. I've always collected vintage decorations. And so every year when Christmas comes around, we get the box of vintage ones out. And we sort of think, OK, what can we recreate this Christmas? Candles, obviously everywhere. Candles everywhere. Lighting is so important. When people arrive for Christmas at my house, you know, we will have wreaths on the door. I also use wreaths in the hallway. And I'll put them on a table and fill them up with candles. Put a big storm lantern over them. Or you can hang them on a wall. If you've only moved into a house recently and you've got a few empty spaces, wreaths are beautiful hung on a wall too. And then I put candles in the windows. Candles everywhere. And I do, you know, a combination of scented and unscented. Low lighting, fire's lit. You're aiming for cosy and comfortable and relaxed. And I've got here Christmas and jazz. I mean, Chrissie, jazz just. Yeah. Good music, a great playlist. It hits me in the heart. And have you got a good jazz playlist? You have the end. One of my choices is a singer. And I love music. I really love music. I do playlists all the time. Amazing, it's the ability to change your mood, isn't it? Completely. I mean, it completely changes, you know, it literally, it sets the tone or the atmosphere for a Christmas party. I think you're, I think you're, I'm looking over at one of your team here. And I'm saying, I think in your emails for your Christmas, you should be sharing Chrissie's Christmas playlists. I think we all want them. Don't be, comment in the notes below if you want Chrissie Rucker's Christmas playlist. I do, I like that in my house with your candles lit. And yeah, sounds heaven. Yeah. Do you cook? Yes. Are you the cook? Yes. Of course, you're the designated cook. Well, actually, one of my daughters is, she was a shally girl for a season. She's absolutely brilliant. She looks helpful. But I think when it comes to Christmas cooking, my mum once said to me, she said, darling, it's just a chicken. It's a big chicken. Yeah. And I think the minute you start to think like that, you think, okay, it's, it's not such a big deal. And to be together, to have fun. And good music, good cocktails, playing games, having a great time together. That's the most important thing. Yeah, we love playing games. So do we. What do you play? Yeah. Well, charades is always. I mean, charades is always a favourite. Beat the Intro. Love Beat the Intro. Hat Game. What's Hat Game? And the Hat Game is when you, you put lots of names of people and films and things that you have to. Yeah, love, love. You talked about textures and throws. I mean, it is just that being, for me, hunkering down for a few days and life-stopping, and all that stuff, and everything. It's so important to get everyone to muck in. Don't try and do it all yourself. I'm on my spreadsheet. I will say, you know, I will know exactly who's bringing the cheese, who's doing the Christmas pudding, and we share it out. And I think that makes such a difference. Yeah, cleaning up, helping with that. It's quite cute. Yeah, the boys are always on bar duty. And yeah, washing out duty too. If you were to summarise and give, I mean, I think I knew what you were going to say. You just said the words, spreadsheets. With four children and a massive business. Clearly, organisation is the name of the game, right? Yeah, I actually have a Christmas present list that goes back 15 years on the spreadsheet. So I know exactly what I've given everybody every year. Oh, actually, wow. You talked about cocktails and that being an important part of Christmas. I'm with you. What are your tipples of choice? Christmas Eve, we will normally do Muld Wine and I buy it. Yes, I buy it. I buy it from Waitrose. I love that idea of buying cheat. So I buy Waitrose own brand and then I chop up lots of oranges and chuck in some cinnamon sticks and put it in a big, and nobody knows, it came out of the bottle. I do. I've got champagne and mixers. Stepmother Sloe Gin, who's the stepmother making Sloe Gin? Yeah, my stepmother mix are really, really good Sloe Gin. And actually, Christmas Day, we quite often have, you could do it with Prosecco as well, anything bubbly, but a bit of Sloe Gin with Prosecco, with champagne, it's absolutely gorgeous. Oh, delicious. It's like a chongle, but it's Sloe Gin. We'll quite often have one drink for one cocktail or one special drink. And then we'll just have a, we'll set up a small bar and I get everyone to help themselves, too. I so agree, otherwise you spend your life doing different things. It's a nightmare. Any other tips for sort of making that size lovely and special? I love the idea of starting with bar, but is there anything you're adding to that to give it the crispy way? Well, we'll quite often do jugs of cocktails. Yeah. So I love a spicy margarita, a white lady. It's a great cocktail and one we do at home a lot. You can do all sorts of fun things. I mean, on Instagram a couple of years ago, there was a sort of all these beautiful ice cubes where you would just do cranberries and rosemary and top it up with orange juice or cranberry juice. And then if you put those in a... Oh, what? Orange juice as the ice instead of water? Yes. And then you put them in a little coupe like these glasses here and then you just top them up with champagne. These are lovely. They look absolutely gorgeous. Yes. They're really lovely. Ah, new martini glasses. Really nice. Well, that's actually, that's my favourite of all. The Vesper martini. I was going to say that's a Vesper, isn't it? Lethal. Yeah. Absolutely lethal. Two of those maximum or you'll be on the floor. We've talked a bit about hospitality and Christmas, but I mean, if anyone has got the art of hospitality down to a tea, I mean, I imagine people don't want to leave when they come for Christmas with you. Is it quite hard to get rid of them? We quite often have people staying for Christmas. So in their bedrooms, I put a little tree in their bedrooms. So we've got some trees, which are about that sort of size. And I put them on top of the chest of drawers. I love making a bedroom feel really special. So I will always do. Pillow mist by the bed, a lovely hot water bottle. Lovely towels and lovely bath treats. Box of chocolates is always quite a good one. And a box of El Casel, so it's essential. Well, you've had a couple of those Vesper martinis. Yes, I'm sure you do. When it comes to, you know, the table, laying the tables, you know, what are your tricks? Obviously, if anyone has, has it all at their disposal, it's you. But there's a lot of meals when you have people to say. Yes. What's your philosophy? Do you lay every table up? Is everything a big meal? Yeah, I'm sure people listening will go, how does Chrissy do it? Because having a house full at Christmas is a lot of work. You said you get the boys to muck in with the washing up and you delegate what people bring and all for that. But in terms of, I mean, you never really stop, do you, when you have people to say? How do you approach that? And how do you approach the vast amounts of food that have got to appear? If you have that build up to Christmas, where you've got all your presents done and everything out of the way. I just, we, you know, before people arrive, we'll have laid the table in the dining room for Christmas day. And then we have... What day do you lay the table? I will do it a couple of days before. Even if you're just folding your napkins and making your place settings look nice, you can just pop them on a tray and then tuck them out of the way. And then, you know, just get them out to really lay a table very quickly. That's a good idea. Yeah. I just love doing as much as you possibly can before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get as much of the food done as you can before. Do as many sort of simple dishes as you can, sharing boards, cheese boards. Don't kill yourself trying to, you know, do endless cordon bleur cooking. So I lay the tables in advance and I will work out how I want to lay each table. Sometimes we'll have Christmas Eve in the pool house. And then we'll light a brazier outside, which is quite nice. And then you have Muldron. So, you know, a big iron thing with lots of big logs in it. So we might have... So we always go to church on Christmas Eve and then come back and then we have drinks outside if it's warm enough. It's a clear evening with the fire going, which is lovely. What time do you eat on Christmas Day? Christmas Day is often quite late. So it just sort of depends how organised we've been. Is it for dinner, supper, or as opposed to lunch? Or is it late lunch? We'll have a late lunch and then leftovers for supper. Is there anything we've missed that you think is sort of really key to them leaving thinking I had a brilliant time? People don't remember what you say or what you do, you know, or what you feed them on. They just remember how you make them feel. So if you're having a lovely time together, it doesn't matter if something goes wrong with the Brussels sprouts get burned or, you know, in a way, it's funny when things go wrong. And just more important to be together and have fun. Before we move on from Christmas, because I'm getting real Christmas envy as to how it looks at the Baccarilla House salt. Talk to me about presents. How do you choose presents for people? I mean, when I say it, you can't go wrong with a white company candle and a pair of socks. And if, you know, anyone was in doubt or a dressing gown, I mean, I could go on, I could go on. What's your approach to presents? How personal are you? You obviously got a wonderful brandy of fingertips, but you wouldn't get it right to that individual. We all want to feel when someone gives us a present that a little bit of thought has gone into it. I sort of, I mean, I collect Christmas presents all through the year. And I sort of, it's just about sort of thinking about what someone loves or what they might not treat themselves to is a lovely thing to do as well. But actually, quite often now, I just ask people. And I ask, I sort of, I say, "Okay, if you'd like to drop me a few hints, what you'd like, that would be brilliant." But then on Christmas Day, you must, you know, pretend that it's a complete surprise and you mean nothing about it. Yes, quite right. And I'm always surprised about what people ask for, actually. I mean, I sort of think they'll want one thing. And then they'll ask me for something really surprising, like, "Can I have a casserole dish?" Which, so I think sometimes it's really worth asking. And lots of people ask me for towels. And that is not an obvious Christmas present, is it? Well, it's a kind of thing. You don't really like spending on yourselves. I think your serving boards are just the best presents ever. Yeah, I mean, serving boards are brilliant. That's just a great present, isn't it? We can never have enough. But what do you see in store? What are you excited to have added to the mix this year that you think might make great gifts for people? Gosh, what have we got in store this Christmas? We've got, obviously, lots of gorgeous, lovely scented candles and bath treats, lots of lovely little cashmere accessories, little leather accessories, beautiful serving dishes, great glassware. Look, glassware's really lovely. Sleep, you know, actually one of the things I give a lot is our sleep spray. I love giving people a little sort of sleep parcel. It's very calming. I love that I spray it when I sleep before I go to bed. That's the thing I think is lovely. It's just, you know, throughout the year, just kind of quietly notice if someone's missing something or if they really like something. Can we have a moment for reflection? And legacy, because 30 years is just massive. I mean, I can't have that point even more. I feel like for me to say that to you is, is, you know, pointing out the greeting obvious, but, you know, it's really hard to be as successful as you've been to ridden the changes. Changes in retail, the changes in digital, since you started your business. You really are still at the helm and still, you know, one of this country's most inspiring entrepreneurs and really building this business for the future and the next 30 years. But if we were to take a moment, and I know you were as ambitious as ever and your daughter's joining the business, and it fascinates me because we talked about this before, but you have this sort of curiosity and this sort of appetite to keep learning, keep growing and 30 years on. No, that's pretty amazing. But if we were to take a moment to reflect on what you're most proud of, what would you say? Nothing makes me feel happier than happy customers. Happy customers who come and tell us that they love what we do. That genuinely is the most important thing. Having a really happy team. Team, size, what are we looking at? Yes, I think we're about two and a half thousand. Wow. You know, having a vision that everybody's behind and we're all working towards and building towards. It's amazing. Can we touch on charitable work? You are in this position as one of the most successful female entrepreneurs. Well, forget being female. You're one of the most successful entrepreneurs in this country. I know you feel it's incredibly important to give back and do your bit. And use your reach and everything to help those less fortunate. Can we talk a little bit about the King's Thrust, The Change The Girl's life campaign and your work there? That's something that we've, again, we've done together as a team. I'm so proud of what we've been able to achieve with that and we've helped all sorts of different charities from early years through to homelessness, through to disabled charities. And now, of course, we do an awful lot with the King's Trust. And I'm so proud to lead the Change The Girl's life campaign, which is something we created for the King's Trust. And that is all about helping our disadvantaged young women to have the help they need to rediscover their confidence and crucially go on and get, you know, get into a fantastic job and really start to build a future. It's really amazing. And how can people get involved? If they are sort of touched by that as a mission, how can they get involved? What can they do to play a part in helping change these girls' lives? Oh, God, I mean, we would absolutely love anyone who'd like to get involved, get involved, go onto the King's Trust website, look up the Change The Girl's life campaign. When I started the campaign, my dream was, wouldn't it be amazing if we could persuade every single person who can to change the life of at least one young woman? And if we could somehow feed that out through that whole country, think what a difference we could make. So, you know, get in touch with the white company, get in touch with the King's Trust, come and get involved. We love that. It'd be amazing. Talking about young women, you have a couple of them in your life. You have four children. It's a cliche, but I want to know the answer. And I know people listening will want to know the answer. And you've said already that you've got an enormously supportive husband. But the mental load on a mother, I think, however wonderful a father was, and I'm sure it will change. And I, as a mother of two girls, feel the world will look very different in 20 years' time. There's a huge mental load, I think, on being a mother. However hands-on a father is. You have obviously worked incredibly hard. You are working harder than ever. How have you balanced that? I know you're the queen of spreadsheets. What advice do you have for people listening? Because it's not easy. How have you done that? Looking back, what would you do differently? What have you done right? We've got lots of young mums in the office. And I see that moment, first thing in the morning, where they've been fraught, and they've had to get their children to nursery. And then at the end of the day, there's suddenly a panic, and I've got to get to nursery, and I've got to get there, and I mustn't be late. And I do think whoever you are, it's a really challenging time. When you first have your first little ones, your life changes so much when you have children. And nothing really prepares you for the change that that's going to have. When I look back on my journey, I think I went back to work straight away after each baby because I had my business. My sister-in-law once gave me a brilliant piece of advice, and she said, "Get a piece of paper and draw the cross on it." And she said, "Right. Write the five things you're going to achieve. The five most important things you're going to achieve this year in the top right-hand corner. Then the next five, then the next five, then the next five." And then you just focus on that, the top right-hand corner. And you just have to learn to prioritize. Actually, one of the lovely things about having your own business is you can always go home and do bath time, and then you can pick up working afterwards. It's something that you just gradually learn to navigate. And sadly, you have to work out what your priorities are, and then you have to learn to say no, and you can't do everything sadly. And it does get easier. It's just a journey of highs and lows, and I think there are times when you feel like you've completely nailed it. And then something will happen to one of the children, and you know what they say? You're always as happy as you're unhappy as a child, or something will have happened at school, or there have been a disaster. But I think they've been so tied to the timetable. That's a bit that gets me here. Yeah. Well, of course, I had this spreadsheet. I operate quite a lot of things off a spreadsheet. It's funny because I was never very good at math, so I don't really know where that came from. But I would put all of the children, so we have a column for each child, and I put all of the children's dates in first. So term time would go in first, half term when holidays could be, and then we would block out family holiday time. And weekends would always sacrifice the children, and I would make work around it. And often I'd work at the weekends when they've gone to bed. And it's not easy, but we're good at splitting dates, aren't we? And well-- But I think the funny thing is when it's your own business. You don't present it in quite the same way, do you? The white company was my first child, so-- And it's part of your family and your home, and it's part of your-- So much so that my next question was going to be what-- This is a really exciting time for the white company. It feels exciting. The clothing, the innovation. There's lots of changes coming. I won't say them all because I'm not sure I can, but you're in your 50s. Yes, quite far into my 50s. Well, I think-- I don't know about you, but someone messaged me the other day and they said, "You know, I'm thinking of doing this. Do you think it's too late?" And I was like, "It's never too late." Never too late. I mean, my goodness, no. And I imagine you sort of feel sureer than ever about who you are and where you're going, and so much more you want to do with the business, which I think is so cool. That said, you've got your daughter coming in. It's a really, really exciting time at the white company at the moment. We've got lots of fantastic new talent who've just joined the business, which is really, really exciting, and they're all bringing fresh ideas and fresh perspectives. My daughter joined the business, and she's about the same age as I was when I started the business. Mazahut. And I love listening to the young and really absorbing how they think, how they like to do things. It's a different way of thinking. I always love the principle of if it was day one and you were starting this business all over again, what would you do differently today? That's a question I love to ask the team a lot, and I think it's vital to stay curious, vital to always be looking for the new thing. I genuinely love what I do. There isn't a day that goes by when I'm not inspired, when I don't see something somewhere that will inspire me for a new product or a new idea or a new service. And happily, we're the business is growing, we're expanding our international. I'm about to do my third book, which I'm really excited about. For me, the white company is just part of who I am, and it has been a massive team effort of some incredible people who've come on the journey with us. And I can't thank them enough for everything they do, because I simply couldn't do what we do without them. But it is just part of who I am, and I will never stop loving it and never stop trying to nurture it. And I will keep looking for new ideas and new fun things to try. Well, I think that's the perfect place to end. And all I can say is thank you for being the entrepreneur that you are and the role model that you are. And to be as warm and generous of spirits and kind and gentle as you are, I think makes you an even more wonderful role model. And we need women like you in this country. And anyway, long may it all continue to the next 30 years of the white company. I hope you have a killer Christmas. Thank you, Ansi. Thank you, Georgie. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute joy. If you enjoyed that, then do please rate, review, subscribe. Thank you, Chrissy. And we will be back soon. Thanks very much. Bye-bye. you