Chris Taylor - Test Pilot

Welcome to the latest episode of the Busy Aviation Podcast and this episode I took with Chris Taylor whose background is in military test flying and how he tests all different types of general aviation aircraft. There's some great stories and some really interesting information. Let's get started. Hi Chris, welcome to the Busy Aviation Podcast. It's great to have you on the show, our first ever test pilot. Let's start by finding out a little bit more about your career in aviation. Well, hi Chris, it's really nice to see you and chat to you at long lasts, after emails and phone calls and business. Yeah, so I think we share a little bit of a common background in that I was in the military as well. I was talking to somebody the other day and I was saying that I was manking to be a pilot ever since I can remember. And I think it boils down to the fact that my parents took me to a place called Abba Frey on the island of Anglesey every summer when I was a toddler. And it turns out that Abba Frey was base leg for our Fally and almost certainly behind yellow nuts and yellow whirlwinds turning final over my head, you know, summer after summer. And there's a picture of me actually outside the the wire of Valle, there were some silver chrome lightings in the background. So I think that stoned seat, I think if I'm honest, that and the fact that my dad was a clerk to two fighter squadrons in World War II. So I didn't realize this until downloading these war records relatively recently, but back then in the 30s and 40s, Ari of Squadrons only consisted of pilots and one fitter, one sergeant fitter and a corporal clerk. All the engineering sport came from the airfield. It didn't come from the squadron unlike, you know, the day. So my dad was the clerk. He was the corporal clerk. So he was the guy almost certainly writing the letters home when pilots didn't come back. He was almost he was the guy that wrote a squadron record book. He was with treble two squadrons for a while. Almost certainly happened there to break down and then he joined 65 squadrons just flying Mustang 3s and 4s and they were used in the ground support role immediately after D-Day. They flew into France, they were working on all these short strips. They supported the Arnaum market garden campaign and my dad's stories from that time but absolutely prices, very funny entertaining and all his mates and pilots, you know, so he was very encouraging at my aviation interest. And having seen planes flying overhead, guess what? I was reading Bigels. I was reading all those double region stories. I had bolster aeroplanes that I'd built all winter and crashed all summer. I made the ethics models like we all did back then, you know, half a crown, pocket money, hanging from the ceiling of the bedroom at the evening. So that was that was the background. That was my kind of early years in childhood. When I became a teenager it was then started to get more, bit more real, you know, like what am I actually going to do for a living when I leave school or whatever. And I said to somebody the day, I know you're ex-airports, but I had a room with a B-A, a B-O-A-C, owned back then, predecessor, a pretty showways and of course they'd just closed handle back then. So that was not an obvious read. So I was really looking at the three arm services. The Air Force did everything it could to deter me. We all made it in everything it could through encouragement. I mean I mean tonning, actually. I don't think that's true. So here's the start of a 10 example. So I was 16, I was coming up to GCSEs, early levels, we called them back in the day. The careers officer said, "What do you want to do Taylor?" I said, "I want to be a partner." Obviously, I want to join the Air Force, be a fighter partner. I mean, I don't know. I mean, rang up the Air Force and said, "I've got this guy, wants to come and visit an Air Station? Can you accommodate him?" No, far too busy, can't do anything. Okay, Taylor, what next? Well, Fleet Air Rock. And so, to the long story short, I went down to R&S cool rows in Cornwall, Healthston, 10 days, as a 16-year-old, I had a free baller bill in the room. No, no questions asked about my age. Every night, I'm in the wardrobe, a couple of clients are larger because that's what I drank back then. And the Navy flew me and everything they had. Every day, I went flying. Back then, we had a lot of different types. So I was in a sea prune, so I was in a whirlwind, I was, you know, in a hiller, everything. It was fantastic. And then when I was 17, I applied for a flying scholarship with the Air Force and with the Navy, went to Bigon Hill, did all the absolute tests, all that stuff. I got called into the squadron leader. He says, "Right, Taylor, good news and bad news. Bad news is the Air Force isn't going to give you a flying scholarship. That's going to be good. Good news is going to see if I'm made next door, who's in the role of Navy." And the Navy gave me a flying scholarship. So the age of 17, there was Daniel Dipswitch, flying 16-150s. Dipswitch was a little grass air fuel before it got closed. I got my PPLA to that. My parents helped with a few extra flying hours. Then it's like, "Okay, I'd like to go to University and get an engineering degree." Because I was already starting to think about being a test pilot, a bit pompous when I just got a PPL assessment of 50s, if you might think, "Well, there were some TV programmes on what's on them about test flying, and they were quite exciting." So I thought, "You never know. Perhaps I should do engineering." And again, I applied to the Air Force and said, "Please, can I have a good etch ship? I'm now going to do this. I've no got a PPL. I've passed the absolute test. I'm a known quantity." And their response was, "Yes, you can have a good etch ship. You'd be great." As an engineer, and I go, "Well, I don't want to be an engineer." I said, "I want to be a pilot. I've passed my absolute test. I've got a PPL." And I said, "No, no, no. We've got lots of pilots. We need engineering officers. You're going to get an engineering degree, so be an engineer." And I said, "No, thanks. You should know, maybe an navigator." I said, "No, sorry. They try that on everyone." So I turned the Air Force down, went to university. I then went to the University Air Squadron, because I hadn't yet joined the Navy. I gave them one last chance. And I said, "Look, this is me, desperate to be a pilot." And they said, "Have you, I think you've considered the role Navy, haven't you?" And I said, "Well, yeah, absolutely. I've considered everything." Little did I realise what rival with their boss, between the, they were saying, "The senior engineer service." I shot myself in both feet by even hinting that I'd shown some interest in the Navy. Yeah, so that was the background as to, long story short, but I ended up joining the Navy on a cadetship. They paid me through the last two years of university. The downside of that was, as an aviator, was that the Navy's cadetships worked for career officers, GL, full career commission, if we remember it right. So I was signing on to 16 years, and I had to be a ship driver first. That was the Navy view. It's a bit like they are. You know, a lot of their pilots came from the Royal Artillery. Still do. So back then, you had to join the Navy. If you want, if you want to be a career officer, you join the drive ships, and then you subspecialise to the pilot. So that's what I did, which delayed me actually studying my flying training for a good couple of years. But I ran a car with the university, and I managed to eat, which is probably over the minute, I don't know. So anyway, that's how I got into flying. I got my Navy wings a little while after that, and back in 90 minutes. That's really interesting. And the way the routes into the military, I mean, have changed so much, I'm a little bit up close and personal with this, as my youngest son is going through it at the moment. And you've got to feel sorry for them, because you know, you gave that example, you were taken to cold roads for 10 days and looked after, and of course, the opportunities are just not there for that anymore, you know, it's all outsourced. Fitness test is done by a private company, your medical is done by a private company, and you have very little engagement with the services before you get in. And that's even if you can get an application, for example, at the moment, the Air Force is not recruiting at all, because the training system is just absolutely chock-a-block clogged up, because we could have various reasons for another whole podcast with. But yeah, and it's such a shame, when you hear a story like yourself, you know, that such an interesting route into the military, and that star is just not there anymore, but still fascinating, and a music like, I don't know if the barbell, I don't, I mean, these days, you know, can you imagine, can you imagine, given a 16-year-old barbell in a wardrobe? It was amazing, absolutely. And we were treated well, you know, I mean, we had, we had a few of the midshipmen, sort of, you know, stitched up properly, but they were only 1819, so it was reasonably close to our ages, and they were told to sort of look after us and socialize with us. So, you know, it was quite a fun 10 days, and it concluded with the the air show that was usually held in Kilgrows in July, and that was, when Art Royal was still just about hanging in there, so it was an amazing air show, that the cloud base was 100 feet, and so we thought, you know, I mean this is this is the fleet air on for you we thought we're not gonna see the jets little in we know I mean the Buccaneer air display with a hundred foot cloud base was phenomenal and as he rolled almost scraping his wingtip It opened its bond doors and he said and you'll see the words flying AV was a commentary But what we saw was fixed wing lifts in bullfletters in the Bombay as it literally scraped down the tunnel Luckily a friend of mine was a Buccaneer pilot and just before I left the Air Force He'd become a tornado pilot who was he or the Buccaneers had gone but of course very very used to fly in at 50 feet over the sea and lower So I was I was very lucky that I got I got the back seat of a tornado as my last trip in the Air Force and He did he demonstrated to me how they used to fly the Buccaneer with a tornado and yeah I was even as a helicopter who used to be next to the sea. I was seriously impressed Yeah, so so now you're in the Navy and What is what was the first well those training of course? What was the first operational type you got to fly? Yeah, so I I was very lucky. I mean the type that I wanted to fly Right from investigating the fleet air on in those early days was the wasp. That's that's the helicopter I wanted to fly and I was lucky enough one of one of my bits and naval trailing was on a Tribal class frigate that was equipped with a wasp. So I got chance to meet the pilot and see what he did The wasp was one of those incredible multi-role aircraft, you know, there was nothing the wasp didn't try and turn it down to basically and the good thing as well Was it was a single pilot helicopter. So whereas when I got my wings and came off the training at Cult Warriors What my mates basically went either to fly the sea king? A couple went to the west. It's and I went to the wasp immediately was flying on my own, you know, and I was treated as a grownup And very quickly I did I did I did us a little bit of session Understudying another pilot, but within months I was likely some my own and then you are the pilot on the ship You are and that means you are the warfare officer who's knowledgeable about aviation Quite often you have the most capable weapon systems on the ship ironically So you were sort of integrated part of the warfare team Yeah, it's a lot of fun And you got the mail and you took people to shore You know when they wanted to go shore and if somebody wasn't well, you flew in the hospital and if somebody fell in the sea You pick them out the sea as well as flying around with torpedoes and depchargers and missiles and all that good stuff And the wasp was Already very old. I mean, but at time I joined the wasp Everything was You know, I was in his demise as a type But there was good news and bad news to that. I mean that meant we were very few Abbot in a show waspilots that followed me only two other waspilots that followed me into that particular clan if you like and and It it was a challenging aircraft So it was it was a very good tool for learning the trade of being an operation helicopter It didn't have a lot of power. It was incredibly limited on range endurance It was you know almost always close to being over talked, you know You're always pulling all the power the aircraft had just to do anything To give you what you mean one example of that Yes, I have a chicken fork probably you have as a helicopter pilot. Yeah So so I mean I I was I was fueling And my my ship was based on the site the helicopter is based in Portland So we we would disembark and end of the port one of one Sunday I had to embark on my ships. I'm flying through all those r.e.f. airfields that was to open back then And thank you I had a chance of one range of 90 miles So I could I'm thankfully there was just an air full station every 90 miles No, I mean I've been there isn't it and I flew in I flew into one of them I can't wish it was when he wasn't and they said oh the airfields closed But I sort of booked fuel on the radio. They said okay, that's fine. You can land in the fueling Depo itself, so I landed in there and topped up with fuel and the fueling depot was surrounded by this 24-high Chain, I know what's coming next Yeah, well I've gone from being you know at about four thousand eight hundred pounds weight to being five thousand five hundred pounds weight My performance had gone from I had some to I had not and I couldn't get over the fence I'm embarrassing that it's a Sunday afternoon I'm sitting there in the hopper every time I pull power to try and get out of the Compound I haven't got enough power to get out so in the end It was one of those chicken hawk things where I sort of reversed into the corner Accelerated across the diagonal used all that extra lift you and I know we get from Translational lift and then fudge Just about hopped over the fence at the far end and carried on to a side, you know, so that was the wasp It was a brilliant It was a really steep learning curve I just remember the wasp when at the end of the Falklands At the time my father had a boat on the medweight and I come in which ship it was it was it was it was one I think it was one of the survey vessels that were been down there There was an endurance Yeah, yeah, yeah, heckler or I remember it coming back up or maybe endurance and I think I've still got photographs now You know proper not digital photographs, but prints of about four wasps I think on either you know on either side of it leading it back up and caused eyes lots as a floatiller of small boats around Yeah, quite quite something because Yeah, yeah, it's four wheels, isn't it the wasp is it? Yeah, yeah Yes, four wheels, yeah, yeah, and you and you you could pivot them Um on on board on board the ship you'd pivot them at 45 degrees So you spot turn on the deck you could you could rotate the helicopter using the tail rotor on the decks you could and take off It sounds like you needed to take off into windows Oh, you needed all the windows, yes, it's quite it's quite something, yeah, and so what did that lead to so that you were talking about that was the demise, you know, it was on its way out Yeah, so uh, yeah, I mean I I flew the wasp for three years um over a thousand deck landings in the wasp about 800 900 flying hours, but unfortunately the wasp went to scrap. I mean that it the wasp um You know was at the end of its operational life really uh the obvious Successor for me to move on to was the links helicopter which was Um, a joint westland iris patiel project um and it was it was like the wasp on steroids in many respects, you know, it was twin engine Um, it had a much better payload much better endurance could fly much faster Um, its weapons systems are much more capable. It still had the same torpedoes, but it now had a seasqueer missile Which is actually incredibly useful missile um for its pure for its time um and it had a radar It had a it had a it was only a 180 degree scanning radar, but it was a very good radar. I mean You were able to pick up sort of periscopes from some radians um and things like that really so That was useful operationally, but also Finally the ship one of the one of the biggest challenges in the wasp was you'd get airborne You've got an hour's worth of gas if you're lucky. Yeah, ship suddenly went off in the wrong direction You go but we always know there was no yeah, well navy ships and never where they say they are That that's that's the that's the that's the law never where they show you are so you know In the wasp I let you a lot of very scary moments, uh, you know trying to find the ship We're literally running on on on flumes the where the links when we when we turn up and the ship wasn't now At least we could put the radar on and go right while there's the ship there. Maybe that's it Maybe that's not and we could you know we could it could eventually find our own mother He'd gone off in the wrong direction if everything so uh, but yeah, links is great fun and um, you know as helicopters go Um, you know semi-rigid mode of head so it was effective in aerobatic helicopter the army As we know used to turn upside down for air displays um and it had a very good undercarriage So if you were going to you know, I've said this to a lot of people if you're going to land on the back of the ship Begin a links. There's no doubt in my mind the links and possibly the wildcap as a successor. He's the most capable Ship operators didn't have harpoon in those days or yeah Yeah, yeah, he did have harpoon. Yeah, yeah Um, because the wasp didn't just had the ice and ran out with nine on lash and uh try to I mean to give you an example of when I was training uh to fly the wasp But I tried to fly the wasp I ditched in the in the first day So I lost the second day because they had to find me another helicopter I don't went out the third day then they changed ship on me and we went to a tribal class figure Um, I'm doing my emergency trip at night. I landed on this tribal class figure Ship rolled and the only thing that stopped me sliding over the side is the wooden beading around the side of the o'r ddech. Mae'n ddech, mae'r ddech, mae'r ddech, mae'r ddech, mae'r ddech, mae'r ddech, mae' i'w i'w i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r Mae'r oes i'n gallu hynny'n gallu hynny'n gallu hynny'n gallu hynny'n gallu hynny'n gallu hynny'n gall Mae'n gwaithio'r gwaithio. Mae'n gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio o'r gwasio o'r gwasio o'r gwasio o'r gwasio o'r gwasio o'r gwasio o'r o'r i'n gweithio a'r i'n mynd i'n gweithio a'r i'n mynd i'n gweithio a'r i'n gweithio a'r i'n gweithio a'r i'n gweith Yng Nghymru, mae'n gwybod gwneud yn yw'r gwybod gwybod gwybod gwybod gwybod gwybod gwybod gwybod gwybod gwybod a'r PPL a'r ffynair o'r plaint a'r ffyned o'r boldog'r ffyned o'r trein. Mae'r ffyned o'r pfyned o'r pfyned o'r pfyned o'r pfyned o'r pfyned o'r pfyned o'r pfyned o'r pfyned o'r pfyned Iwch i'n gwybod i'n gwybod yw'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwy o'n gwybod. Mae'n gwybod. Mae'n gwybod. Mae'n gwybod. Mae'n gwybod. Mae'n gwybod. Mae'n gwybod. Mae' o'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r Mae'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n ymwch yn fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy'n fwy' Mae'r ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn. Mae'r ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn. Mae'r ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn. Mae'r ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn. Mae'r ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn. Mae'r ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn yn ffordd oeddwn. Yn gweithio ymwch chi'n gweithio bod yn ymwch chi'n gweithio bod yn ymwch chi chi chi chi chi chi chi chi chi chi chi chi chi chi I'm looking over here, I think I've got a book on my mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's called test pilot. It's called test pilot. Which is a new reason why I think I want to call my book test pilot, because that book is on my shelf as well. And yeah, absolutely. And if you read the book and if you saw the program, you think, gosh, they're all working so big, no, I can't do that. You know, I'm not good enough to do that. But what a city of the Navy was, okay, what I'd really like to do is be the officer commanding the link simulator. So we had a simulator pool and we have three simulators teaching the link to cruise. And it actually worked very well. I ran the simulator. Actually, I was reflecting on it recently. When I got there, Moral was low, everybody was changed off. Two or three years later, we were highly respected. We were training everybody in the leaked world. We were flying all three squadrons and structing all three squadrons. So I didn't stop flying. And the good news was, I could manage my time better. So the simulator ran for 12, 15 hours a day. So I was trying to do a lot of babysitting for my young children, because my wife was too little. So I could say, right, you know, I'll drop the kids off, get into the simulator. Then I can pop her own pick them up. Then I can do a late shift and I did a lot of night flying as well. And the other good news with that was, I got to know my own aircraft, the links incredibly well. And also, I could use some of the time to prepare for the examinations to be at test point. So, and I did lots of other stuff. In fact, I went to America. I did some stuff out there. I learned to fly some different helicopters out there. I went and visited NASA. I went and rang up NASA and said, "Please, can I come and visit?" And I spent a day as I used to with the head of their training. The head of astronaut training hosted me for that. I was in space shuttle simulator. Amazing. And it's just like Chris Taylor from, you know, somewhere in the world. I don't think they knew who I was from. I was just putting NASA on my ear. It was very interesting. You used to have to have a choice of three posts, where we would call it, you know. At the time, I desperately wanted to get a fixed wing, or back to fixed wing. But I was the third one. I was used to put NASA. I just used to put NASA. I didn't put anything on it. I couldn't really think of anything else. And I thought, "One day, you never know, you know." [LAUGHTER] Well, you never know. Yeah, you never know. Anyway, yes, so, so, you know, and then I formally applied, went for interviews. a'r i'n gweithio. i'n gweithio'r ETS, yn ymdwch chi'n gweithio'r ETS, yn ymdwch chi'n gweithio'r ETS. Mae'n gweithio'r ETS, yn ymdwch chi'n gweithio'r ETS, yn ymdwch chi'n gweithio'r ETS. Mae'n gweithio'r ETS, yn ymdwch chi'n gweithio'r ETS. Mae'n gweithio'r ETS. i'r gwaith y gallu'r gwaith yw i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwa Mae'n gwneud hynny. Mae'n gwybod, mae'n gwybod, yn gwybod, mae'n gwybod, yn gwybod, yn gwybod, yn gwybod, yn gwybod, yn gwybod, yn gwybod, yn gwy yn ymdwch i'r gweithio, ac mae'r fwyng yng Nghymru yn ymdwch i'r gweithio. Yn gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio. Ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio. Ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio yn ymdwch i'r gweithio. a'r hynny'n i'r hynny'n mynd i'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny i'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio yn gweithio yn gweithio yn gweithio yn gweithio yn Mae'r ysgwch i'r ysgwch i'r ysgwch i'r ysgwch i'r ysgwch i'r ysgwch i'r ysgwch i'r ni'n hwnn, ni'n hwnn i'n rhai o'n hwnn i'n hwnn i'n hwnn i'n hwnn i'n hwnn, ni'n hwnn i'n hwnn i'n hwnn i'n hwnn i'n hwnn i'n hwnn i'n hwnn i'n hwnn i'n hwnn i'n hwnn i' Yw'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r Diolch yn gwneud sy'n gwneud sy'n gwneud sy'n gwneud sy'n gwneud sy'n gwneud sy' Felly mae yw'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r fford yw i'r ysdw i'r ysdw i'r ysdw i'r ysdw i'r ysdw i'r ysdw i'r ysdw Mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn. Mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn. Mae'r gweithio hyn o gyda'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn. Mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn. Mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn, mae'r gweithio hyn. three years of that. So I went from being a helicopter pilot to being a helicopter test pilot to then being a shooter for helicopters and then being a shooter for airplanes. And then the final kind of stepping stone was after three years I got very frustrated with the situation I was in for a variety of reasons and the CEA wanted a fixed-wing test pilot and I applied and I got the job. So all of a sudden I was never fixed-wing test pilot and I said, "Can I want to do some helicopter flying?" And they said, "No, don't do any helicopter flying. Not right now, we want to be an airplane test pilot. I've been honest to me, my boss at the interview, most in exactly what I'd said, as soon as the interview was complete, he went rushing around the whole building to see if I wouldn't get one for it. He wants to do helicopters as well as airplanes. And it wasn't that long before I found myself doing the helicopter flying. But that's how I became a helicopter. It really is some story and it's fascinating as well. And you've had, I mean, it's some career. It really is. And I don't want to give too much away because obviously a lot of this, is this in the first book, second book? Yeah, so I've written a book. Well, I've actually written two books. First book was published only about four or five weeks ago. And I've written a second book which is after publishers writing their approval. So what it did was, for a bunch of reasons, it just crossed my mind that I'd reached an age, I turned 60 a few years ago, four years ago. And when my dad turned 60, he had a strike. So all those fantastic stories he had, you know, I mean, he, his is one of his best stories. He says to his mates on 65 squadron, Brussels has been liberated. Let's go in and get pissed. They all pile into a Jeep, that's six of them on a Jeep. They're going to Brussels, have a slap up meal, get complete shit face because we're going to die the following day. As the driving out of Brussels, there's blokes with grey uniforms standing on the street corners. And again, what the hell are these things in war? I think all these German soldiers were so staggered. See, a bunch of completely pissed blokes, you know, whistling pasta, 60 miles an hour in a Jeep. They've time to shoot them, you know, amazing. And he had loads of stories like that. But he had a stroke when he was 60. All of those stories got lost to us as children. And I thought, do you know what? You know, I've got four grandkids. And I never know what's around the corner. None of us do, I guess. So I thought, do you know what? I ought to write some stuff down. And during lockdown, I thought, you know, if my job was a little bit quieter, so I thought, if I can't find the time to do it now, perhaps I never would. And I like, probably a lot of people, I took advice from people who are in books. And they said, well, you know, you just got to try, you know, you know, write a book. We can't tell you how to write a book. We don't know what your style is going to be like when you can string two words together or not, whatever. So I just started bashing away on the keyboard. I've got a whole bunch of, you know, pilot books on my shelf, some of which you've got to be boring. The book site here is just template. So Billy Connell is autobiography. Sounds good. Dieta K is autobiography. So that gives you an idea of a kind of style template. And I got their books and they've written about 100,000 words. I thought, let's see if I just write some stories down what they look like. And I read a book a couple of years ago by Emily Maverick. She was the BBC News 9% set. She's written a book called Airhead. Apparently, the story is, I talked to her publisher. She didn't want to write the book. She's pressurized into it. So I really don't want to do this. And she just wrote stories about interviews. So her book has a name at the top of the title of her, the Prince Andrews, her last chapter. And she tells you all about the background, the interview, and a lot of the stuff that went on. And I thought, I can do that. I don't have to do it chronologically. It's just like me and you having this conversation. You know, ideally in a pub by a fire with a beer, and you go, when I was flying the west side, I got, oh, I flew the west side. So when I was flying the sea king, yeah, and next thing, you know, you know, two hours has gone past three times. Conversational, conversational, conversational writing is more engaging. Conversational. Yeah. Yeah. Well, for pilots to do so, I was reading a review by somebody today on Amazon. And they're clearly, I mean, they've done about 600 views on Amazon. The average rating is two and a half stars. And I've got two stars. Okay. You know, but she's not a pilot. She doesn't get it. She doesn't get the format at all. But my book, it's written every chapter is down below. You can leave it in the loop. Now it's by bedside. You know, it doesn't matter if you forget what happened in chapter one by time you get to chapter 19. Yes. They're all awesome. Chris, I'm sorry, I missed what's it actually called? Just test pilot. Yeah. And then the subtitle is an extraordinary career testing civil aircraft. So yeah. So test pilot is the big title. The publishers were very keen to call it that. As I mentioned earlier, there are some other very impressive test pilots out there that are written books called test pilot. And I wouldn't really want to put myself in there. Yeah. Domain or whatever. But there is some sensibly test pilot, because guess what? That's what I am sort of in doing. I think we can revisit that towards the end. One of the questions, you know, what I want to ask you is, what is the most difficult aircraft? One, one, one, you may have flown or two tested or both. [BLANK_AUDIO] And the way the Americans did load lifting was you basically had a bubble window fitted to the left hand seat. You sat in the left hand seat rather than the usual right hand seat, mainly so that you could put your head in the bubble window. You had a hundred foot plus long strap. And you had no air crewmen. You had no ground crew. You basically just flew your at 61 vertically or even this load. There was an amateur bloke there that hurted up and then you flew it around and dropped it off. There was no assistance. So you, so whilst the S61 is a stable aircraft reasonably easy to fly, lifting a load off a hundred foot strap that weighs more than the helicopter, for not only difficult, you know, incredibly difficult to do it without imbalance. Yeah. So that's one example of, you know, that the airplane itself is okay to take the task that it was being asked to do with his challenging. I flew an awful lot and I still do. I test all the gyros. And one of the reasons I got asked to test all the gyros for the CEA was their accident rate back then when I joined per flying hour was phenomenal. It was about ten times the equivalent accident rate for almost every other type. So there's a bit of grab paper, you know, one line's right at the top of the grab paper and the other lines all down the bottom. And they were just falling out of the sky right left and center. So I then had to fly gyros. I then went testing all the gyros and the most, what's the word? The gyro that was killing most people was something called the RAF2000. Now, some of your listeners may have flown the RAF2000. And I flew with a good number of bonus RAF2000s and pilots of RAF2000s. Pilot's of RAF2000s are very good pilots. It's a bit like Harry or Pylates. I hate to admit it, but back in the day before it got easy, Harry or Pylates would probably need quite the pilots. So I flew with the company test pilot in Canada. He had a thousand hours on the RAF2000 and had flown nothing else. So when I say to him, you know, this is a death penalty goes, no, it's not, because he's flown nothing else. He doesn't know any signals. But that was a helicopter that it broke all the rules for civil certification. It clearly didn't meet any normal civil standards for a safe aircraft to fly. We worked really quite closely with the recreational organisations that looked after all the gyros at the time and the owners and people like that. And over a period, we managed to get the aircraft redesigned. We got a tail made. In fact, the guy that came up with this was a guy I know, because it's made to my brother. So, you know, it's a very small world, but he came up with that modification to the aircraft and it made it better to fly. It made it better to fly to the point where we, I was then working for civil aviation authorities to regulate it. So I could say, it's not easy to fly, but it's accepted. It's okay. It's safe. You know, it's not fun necessarily, but it's safe. So I would count that is one of them. yng Nghymru i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w i'w o'r ysgrywll Helicoptor. Mae'r ysgrywll Helicoptor, i'w'r ysgrywll Helicoptor, o'r ysgrywll Helicoptor, o'r ysgrywll Helicoptor. Mae'r ysgrywll Helicoptor, o'r ysgrywll Helicoptor, o'r ys Helicoptor, i'w'r Helicoptor, i'w'r Helicoptor, i'w'r Helicoptor, i'w'r Helicoptor, i'w'r Helicoptor, ysgrywll Helicoptor. Helicoptor, i'w'r Helicoptor, i'w'r Helicoptor. Helicoptor, i'w'r Helicoptor. Mae'r C42, amser, amser, amser, amser, amser, amser, amser, amser. Mae'r iawn i'w i'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r iwi'r gyd i'n cymryd i'n cymryd yn cymryd yn cymryd i'n cymryd i'n cymryd yn cymryd i'n cymryd i'n cymryd i'n cymryd i'n cymryd i'n cymry Mae'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n my Mae'r ddim yn ddim yn ddim yn ddim yn ddim yn ddim yn ddim yn ddim yn ddim yn mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i' Mae'n gwaith yw, mae'r gwaith i'n gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith Felly, felly, felly, felly, felly, felly, felly, felly, felly, Yw'n gweithio'r gweithio'n gweithio'r gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio' ac mae'n gallu'r rwy'n gweith. Mae'n gallu'n gallu'r rwy'n gweith, mae'n gallu'r rwy'n gweith. Mae'n gallu'r rwy'n gweith. yw'r yw'r yw i'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw Mae'r gwaith i'n gwybod i'r gwaith i'r gwaith, mae'n gwaith i'n gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gwaith i' Mae, mae'n gweithio gweithio, mae'n gweithio gweithio. Mae'n gweithio gweithio gweithio, mae'n gweithio gweithio gweithio. Mae'n gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio. Mae'n gweithio gweithio gweithio. Mae'n gweithio gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. ac mae'n gweith i'r gweith i'r gweith i'r gweith i'r gweith i'r gweith i' Mae'n hynny'r hynny, mae'n hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny' Mae'n gwaith sy'n gweithio, mae'n gwaithio, mae'n gwaithio'n gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwa a'r llwy'r hynny'r hynny, hynny'r hwnnwyr i'r hynny i'r hynny. Mae'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r A'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny. A'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny'r hynny. Mae'r gwaithio'r unrhyw i'r yw'r ysg i'r ysg i'r ysg i'r Ysg i'r Ysg i'r Ysg i'r Ysg i'r Ysg i'r Ysg i'r Ysg i'r Ysg i'r Ysg i'r Y Yn yw'n gweithio, ac mae'n gweithio'r gweithio'n gweithio'r gweithio. Mae'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gwe Mae'r gweithio gwneud. Mae'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud. Gwi'n gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud. Mae'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud. Gwi'n gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud. Gwi'n gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud. I'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r amser. I'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud. I'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud. I'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud. I'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud. I'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud. Gwi'n gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud i'r gweithio gwneud. If you're your business would like to appear on the Busy Aviation Podcast please do get in touch through our website which can be found at www.busyaviation.co.uk You'll also find our latest news articles and other episodes of this podcast. Please take a moment to sign up for our newsletter and in the meantime save flying and happy landings. you