Chris Koch and Us | Director (with Jon Huertas)

This is a HeadGum Podcast. A bold reimagining of John Steinbeck's masterpiece following generations of the Trask family through love, betrayal, and the choices that shape humanity. Starring Mike Feist and Christopher Abbott as the Trask brothers and Florence Pugh as Kathy Ames, the complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants, no matter the cost. Watch East of Eden now, only on Netflix. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade Electrolytes, Zero Sugar, and Viacom. Vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes. What if I. Yeah, okay, hold on, hold on. Let's save it. We're ready? Okay. So you wake up by alarm at 5.30? Yes. Like just to have. Every day. Just to have like time for yourself. To get a goddamn hour of peace and quiet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel that. I woke up at 5 this morning. All right. Yeah. And my body's. It started when. When Bear was born because we weren't shooting at the time. Yeah. And that would be around 5, 5.30 would be a time in his sleep schedule where he would wake up to be fed. And instead of trying to get him right back to sleep, I would take him from Rachel. I'd put him in the stroller and we'd go for a walk. At like 5.30? Yeah. Wow. And that's what would put him back to sleep. And then I would just be up. And then. When we started shooting again, the call times would be all over the place. Yeah. And then I'd like try to change it. And I'm like, I should just set this and just always. Set it and forget it. Be up at this time. And that'll be it. And it's been great, you guys. It's been great. I mean, I don't look at it as that weird. No. I mean, I think it's. It's not weird. I kind of wake up every day between 5.30 and 6.00. I just don't have an alarm. Yeah. Yeah. But I also go to bed at like 9.00. Same. Yeah. Same, same, same. And it's not an alarm on my. On my phone. It's just, you know, crippling anxiety that rockets me. Rockets me from my sleep. Oh, I thought it was like shoots you out of bed. Yeah. But on a schedule. But on a schedule. I hate alarms. Like, I hate hearing phone alarms, clock alarms. I have a nice sound. Me too. It fades in. Yeah, it's like a chimey one. I don't like silver alerts or any of those things that come on the phone. No silver alerts. Not a silver alert. That sound. Scares the shit out of me. It's the worst sound. It was yesterday. Did you guys get that? Oh, it made me want to help them. I was like, oh, God. It just pisses me off. But they work. Do you know they work? They really work. I am glad. They work, you guys. I'm really glad. Also, John, did you notice? Oh. Are you guys wearing the same shoes? Yeah, so check this out. So check this out. But look, look what mine say on the bottom. Oh, the. So I'm going to do a little commercial, a little freebie for the quints. Okay. So first of all, hold on. Wait, did they. John Huertas. John Huertas is in the house today because. Sterling K. Brown is out and we needed a co-host and John said, I would love to. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you for being here. I love being here. Thank you. Oh, we loved having you. If I can blow up your spot, John and I went to John's restaurant a couple of weeks ago and had a. Same place? Had a delicious lunch. Clutch. And he had these shoes on. So if you're watching us a day early on Hulu, you will see that John has these great shoes on. And I was like, these shoes are great. And he goes, yes, they are. They are fantastic. They're comfortable. And he goes, but I will tell you, Sully, they're maybe the most expensive shoes I've ever purchased. They are. And he says. I remember it was by accident. It was by accident. It was one of those situations. Have you ever done this where you walked. And we shared stories about you walk into a store and you're like, oh my gosh, I love this. And you bring it to the counter and they go, that'll be. $700. And you're like. But now you're embarrassed. I'm committed. Multiply that. But now you're embarrassed and you're like. Because they've already said, oh my God, I love your show. Yeah. And they recognize you. Yep. So you're like, I can't be like, oh, you know what? Actually, today I'm not. And they ring you up and you're like, that'll be $4,276. Yeah. And you're like, do you have a senior discount? I'm sorry, what'd you put on there, bro? Like, I didn't get all that. These are shoes, right? It's just the shoes. So I just said. So he tells me about the shoes. I'm like, I have to find a pair. And he goes, well, I actually have a hookup. I found them kind of around about. Two days later, I go on Quince. There they are. They're pretty much the same exact shoe. Pretty much the same exact shoe for, I'll say it, $120. What the f. So Quince, there's a freebie. I'm a Quince Prince. What fancy shoes are those? These are Zinnias. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I didn't know what a Zinnia was. I was like, oh, that'll do it. When I walked through the store and said, you got those in a ten and a half? I know. I saw it. I just said, you have those in ten and a half? And I had a whole arm full of clothes. I'm like one of those guys. I don't like the. The shopping experience? I don't like the dressing room. People come up to me. I'm in there for an hour. They come up to you in the dressing room? No, no. I don't have a dressing room yet. I'm carrying all my clothes. All the things I want to basically buy. I feel like I know my size. I kind of don't try on clothes. Yeah, yeah. Okay. But then I just pick up. Clothes try on me. I just stack stuff up. And so I stacked up those shoes and put everything on the counter. And they told me how much it was. And I was like, what? How did we get to that number? Look at the receipt afterwards. I'm like, that's. Yeah, that's. It's close. Definitely, it's. One of my mortgages was definitely less than what these shoes cost. Yeah. That I had back in the day. Well, listen. They're beautiful. Oh, thank you. But I'm glad you can find a version of them on Quince. Yeah, these are nine years old, though. I just take care of them. I'll never buy another pair. That's right. Wait, for real? No. Oh, I was like, damn. They're like three. They're like probably three. Those look like comfortable shoes. They are wearable. I think I'd like shoes like that. I think I'd like a pair of shoes like that. So you're going to be here with us for two episodes. Yeah. This one where we're interviewing Chris Koch. Who I'm very excited to see. Yes. I haven't seen him in a while. One of our favorites. And then another episode where we're just going to do a rewatch. A little chat. And it happens to be an episode that you directed. Yeah. Chris Sullivan directed this episode. That's the next one. While Sterling's not here. I'm like, do you just enjoy the silence? Right. Oh. Shh. Whoa. Whoa. Clip that. Send it to Ryan. I'm kidding. Clip that. Send it to Ryan. Listen. The crippling anxiety I felt this morning. I was like, God, I hope Sully and Huertas are up for this. Because I don't know how this ship is going to sail. Sterling just like takes our conversation. And I'm like, I am just a passenger on the ship. And I love it. We've talked about our roast. The roast of Sterling Cabron. Ah, that's right. For the 50th. On this podcast. Oh, you talked about it? Yeah, we talked about it. He had a great time. Nice. And I told them that it's one of the performances in my life that I'm most proud of. You guys crushed it. Oh, we crushed it. No, no, you really did. We crushed it, John. You guys were like the closers for a reason. I don't know. I didn't know that. You didn't feel it? I mean, it felt good. It felt good. It felt fun. It was rolling. It was fun. I felt, yeah. And I was very proud of us. I love, you know, this thing. And I thought about the level of difficulty. I love the difficulty of not just going up and doing a roast. Never mind that. Anybody can roast. But to put together a comedic back and forth. Yeah. A banter. In a matter of hours. Yeah. We got together once, twice. And he was saying that, like, as jokes were told, you guys had to sort of, like, in the moment, sort of pivot together. Like, oh, shit. Someone already said that. Oh, they already mentioned that. We were sitting in the front row. They sat us in the front row. Front row. And they've got, you've got people that have known Sterling K. Brown for. 30 years yeah decades and you're like you know you know they're gonna say something about him that we have already thought we wanted to make fun of sure sure so it's like yeah like so yeah roll with it yeah let's take that off yeah take it yeah yeah but i'm wondering if if since he's not here if we could reach out to ryan and i know they have video of that roast and and if if my promise if i'm not over promising it's edited into the podcast right here such an honor we're humbled work has been slow it's it's hard out there thank you we'll take any stage yeah and we'll be on any stage we are on stage tonight with sterling k brown how many of us get to stay that we've stared if i can have a little snack before i leave i'm very hungry so ryan was saying right she was just saying that we weren't on the official guest list because that is for stars and that is for stars but we are something that the industry calls supporting actors all right we are supporting actors we supported sterling for six seasons on this is us yeah that's damn we are not stars in the least no we are not stars we uh you know just seven just seven and eight you know but sometimes it's sterling like to likes to refer to us as hey you or get out of my light yeah i remember when he was to yell at you hey number eight why are you toning down a bit you're doing too good I'm trying to work on my EGOT over here! On that one time he tried to convince Dan Vogelman to kill you off with that heart attack. What? Is it? What? Well, anyways guys, we are really excited to be here tonight. What do you think of that? That was pretty great, right? Pretty great. Wait, Huertes, tell us what you've been doing. What's going on? How's life? Life is good. You know, I've bought a farm. So we're up there working on that. Like the Matt Damon movie. We bought a zoo. We bought a farm. Yeah, we bought a farm. So I've been doing that. I've been directing a lot. That's kind of what my new job is. You're getting ready to come up to Vancouver? Getting ready to direct Chris Sullivan on his new show. I'm so excited. Rookie North, that's right. But yeah, that's kind of the new job. I like it. I love it. Doing that, I was supposed to direct a feature this year that because of the television schedule getting so constructive, I have to push it to next spring. So I'm excited about that. Never a bad thing to be busy. Yeah. And just kind of looking towards the horizon. Maybe early retirement or something. Still going to get a boat? Yeah. Get the fuck out of here. Yes. He was telling me about boat plans and, you know, setting up shops somewhere overseas where we can all go visit him and just get all his boat. Oh yeah. I've already, I love my family, but I will be leaving them behind. What? And just coming. Yeah. Maybe just mom and dad coming to hang out on the boat. Oh, that's great. This time instead of Courtney Cox and Jennifer Aniston getting pictures taken, it's going to be me and you. Yeah, exactly. I'll be in my two piece. They think they're fancy on their yacht. Perfect. So will we. Yeah. Watch this. It's a little smaller. It'll be a little smaller. Catamaran. A little cozier. A little cozier. I prefer cozy. I don't need to have all the fancy. Me too. You know, jet skis off the back. Something charming. Yeah. We'll have a paddle board off the back. That's right. Fun. Way better. That's right. Better exercise. I love that. Catamaran. Two hulls in that piece. Real steady. So let's get into this interview with Chris Koch, shall we? Let's do it. Thanks for being here, John. All right. Where is he? Oh, there he is. Oh, hey. Oh, hi. Oh, yeah. Let's do it like. Hold on. Wait. Don't cut. We'll do it like Amy Poehler. Oh, hey, Chris. At the end of all of her intros. Hi. She goes, "Hey. Hey. Can you hear me?" Hey, Chris. Are you there? Chris? Chris. Chris. Chris Koch, are you parking outside? I think I hear him parking. And then it goes into a commercial. Yep. More That Was Us after these words from our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's new series, East of Eden, a bold reimagining of John Steinbeck's masterpiece following generations of the Trask family through love, business, and love. The show is brought to you by Netflix's new series, East of Eden, a bold reimagining of John Steinbeck's masterpiece following generations of the Trask family through love, business, and love. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's new series, East of Eden, a bold reimagining of John Steinbeck's masterpiece following generations of the Trask family through love, betrayal, and the choices that shape humanity starring Mike Feist and Christopher Abbott as the Trask brothers and Florence Pugh as Cathy Ames, the complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants, no matter the cost. Watch East of Eden now. Only on Netflix. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade Electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? This episode is brought to you by Netflix's new series, East of Eden, a bold reimagining of John Steinbeck's masterpiece following generations of the Trask family through love, betrayal, and the choices that shape humanity. Starring Mike Feist and Christopher Abbott as the Trask brothers and Florence Pugh as Cathy Ames, the complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants, no matter the cost. Only on Netflix. Ladies and gentlemen, okay, we're officially live, which means the tone shifts to a moment. We're officially live, which means the tone shifts to a moment. Huertas. Thank you for having me. Thanks for being here. Good luck. And we've invited him here today to help us in the task of interviewing one of this podcast's, I mean, most well-received guests. Episodes. Wow. I mean, and why? I mean, really. Well, we'll find out, because you are, as we were discussing earlier, a veteran. A veteran director. A veteran director of television. All your favorites. Chris Koch, you've heard him on this podcast. I'm also a veteran director. Yes. Yes, two veteran directors of it. Because I'm an Air Force veteran. I haven't been doing it very long. Oh, wow. A veteran, comma, director. Yes. Yes. Veteran. Well, you know, I started in the Coast Guard. What? No, I made that up. I believed it. I was like, that's not on your resume. You look like a Uri. Is that a branch of the military? Is Coast Guard a branch of the military? It is. Now it's part of Homeland Security. It used to be under DOD, I think. Okay, so there are five branches now? Five armed branches. Wait, what's an unarmed branch of the military? Uh, there isn't an unarmed branch. The Girl Scouts? No, there isn't an unarmed branch. I can't remember what it's called because they don't have any guns. So it doesn't matter. Because nobody cares. No one cares. They don't have any vehicles. They don't have any guns. But they dress like they're in the Navy. They dress like they're in the Navy? Yeah, yeah, so uniforms. Okay. I think that's true. I'll chat to you later. All right. Yeah. Natalie's Googling it right now. I think it's called the Village People. She's like, no, I don't care. It's called the Village People. But if there's a television show that you love, Chris Koch has directed at least one episode of it. We're talking This Is Us, of course, Paradise. You haven't seen The Land yet. But two episodes of The Land. But he's directed two episodes of Mandy's Show, Only Murders in the Building, Modern Family. I did some Three's Company. Did you really? Yeah. Not with the second Mr. Roper, not the first. Of course. What about Three's Company? You did Three's Company, really? Yeah, back in the day. You're not that old. Actually, my first thing I directed was The Brady Bunch. Remember that? No, it's not. Yeah. Are you serious? You are a veteran. No, no. You guys. You're like younger than me. I know. It's weird. I started young. What is the first episode of television you ever directed? A fantastic show called The Adventures of Pete and Pete. Right? Nickelodeon. Yes. You guys didn't watch Adventures of Pete and Pete? I did not. Holy cow. I feel like if you're watching this podcast or listening, stop the podcast. Pause the podcast. Go find it on Google Pete and Pete. Which episode should people watch? Oh, Last Laugh. Last Laugh. Season three. You remember the episode name? Yeah. It was his first episode of television. And I will say, it was still to this day one of the hardest shows to do because it was one camera in New Jersey with a bunch of kids running around. And both Pete's didn't know who you were talking to at any given time. Didn't know. You don't need a show. I need you two inches this way. Oh my God. Nobody knew what they were doing, but it was a great, yeah, it was a really, really good show. It was a really, really good show. It was a really fun show. I mean, we had Debbie Harry, Iggy Pop, Steve Buscemi, like everyone, it was all these, like, a lot of rock stars were on it, like Fred Schneider from the B-52s. And you let them around both Pete's? Yeah. I feel like you guys got to watch this show. Maybe loved it. I mean, it was. Who was your favorite Pete? The younger Pete. The younger Pete. It was a part of my childhood, like all those shows that were on Nickelodeon. Okay. Yeah. Who were the actors in it? I don't know. I can't tell you the names. Mike Morona. Mike Morona. Really? Was Big Pete. Okay. And Danny Timbrelli was Little Pete. Wow. Okay. And what's funny as I was doing Murders, because I know Mike Morona stayed in New York working on Film Cruise, and I was doing Only Murders my first day on set, and a guy comes over wearing a mask because he was doing some sanding, and he goes like this. Comes over and gives me a big hug and he pulls down. It was Mike Morona. He says, Little Pete. Big Pete. Big Pete. Little Pete. Yeah. So, that was really fun. I love that. And then you've done 11 episodes of our show. Yes. Total. Yeah, that's correct. I feel like beyond Ken, I think Chris has directed the most. Right. Yeah. Ken did like 22. Yeah, Ken did a bunch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lightning round. If you could spend one day with one character from This Is Us, who would it be and why? Oh, good. And no sex stuff. Please. Wow. It would probably be Felicia Rashad's character. Wow. Because she scares me. Do you like me to scare you? No, I like you. She was, I. Didn't go with any of my thoughts. She scares me too. No, I'm just saying that because I watched the episode last night. She's so good, though. She is so good. I'm like, God damn. You directed Felicia, you directed Delroy Lindo. Yeah, I remember that episode. He was also scary. Yeah. Very intimidating. I remember, you know, he was very intimidating. But lovely. Oh, no. The loveliest, but yes. He had his own method. He was kind of stayed in his own corner. Milo and I were like, are we allowed to talk to him? And we were, the three of us kept trading looks because he had these very interesting sort of vocal warm-ups. Yeah. Oh, really? Which Sterling now does. Sterling's been doing it. On that one before. Mwah! Mwah! Yeah. I do one. Sorry. Ha, ha. I do one. I go, ha, ha, ha. Acting. Acting. It was very similar to that. Acting. Sterling does that? That's what I do. That's what you do. It lets people know that they're about to get some acting. Right. I get excited. I'm like, oh, here it comes. Here it comes. Some real acting. Yeah. Some real acting. My favorite thing to do on the way to set is to walk by Video Village and just go, watch this. Ha, ha, ha. You want to see something? Watch how the kids react. Hey, especially if there's executives there who I have not met yet. What happens is they'll come and they'll sit and they'll watch. They'll moonlight and they'll come and hang out on set, right? And I like to walk by, never having introduced myself. I go, hi. Watch this. Ha, ha, ha. Keep your eyes on that monitor. Tissue boxes right there. Yeah. Right there. Right there. So, Chris Koch, you were born in Melrose. Massachusetts. Yes, I was. You went to BU. Oh, wow. I'm reading your resume, which hopefully is somewhat correct. I love how Natalie's like, I didn't write this. Oh, I was hoping you were a stalker. I read your Wikipedia. How did you get interested in this whole crazy world? I feel like I'm like the cliche story. Like, literally, I was the one taking the 8mm Super 8 camera and making little films when I was like 9 and 10 years old. Really? Yeah. Which, you know, back then, it was more work because you had to buy film and stuff. And you had to do things. And you had it in camera. Yep. The first film was called The Spaceship. Did you do online editing? Like, cut, splice it? I would literally cut Super 8 film. Wow. And splice it. Anybody in your family creative or in the arts at all? No, just like, not, oh, yeah. I mean, creative family, you know, musical family. Everybody kind of played different things. There was always different types of music playing around the house. But my dad was always, you know, we had. He had the camera and he was always filming everything. So. Wow. I had seen TV. I thought we needed some better stuff to watch. So I decided to embark on a lifelong career to achieve that. No. I got to go. I got to go. Yeah, I got to go. I have to improve the situation. Yeah, I don't. You know, it's funny. And then, you know, I was a C student and everything else. What was the study at Boston University? And I was like, I don't know what I want to do with my life. Were you studying film? Not at first. I went in, you know, I was like an okay student. Yeah. So I just kind of like. Yeah. Well, I couldn't get into BU. This scene is a plug for BU. There was something back then called the College of General Studies. Oh. At Boston University. Perfect. It was an academic boot camp for kids like me. Great. Oh. Who were C students. Let's see if we can get in there. And it was really, really hard. And it was like a 50% dropout rate. Really? In the first year. And it was the hardest thing I ever did. But if you got through it, then you could get into any school at BU. No questions asked. Great. Law, law, law, medical school, whatever. Wow. And then, so I got to that point and I was like, well, I just like the only thing I just always wanted to do was like be in the film business. So that's what I chose. I went to the College of Communication. Great. So. And you started in New York? Uh, no Boston. And then, oh, then I, then I. Your first professional gig. Yeah. Uh, then I went, I took a detour, I went into advertising in New York, I worked as an advertising producer for like J. Walter Thompson. Then I worked for a, uh, great little company called Fred Allen. And they did all the cool advertising for MTV and Nickelodeon. And we started Comedy Central with them. And that's how I got into the world of Nickelodeon. And you started Comedy Central? Well, branding. So what they would do is like, they'd say we're, we're launching Comedy Central. Uh, because before then there had been like Ha and the Comedy Channel. And so we're gonna merge them into Comedy Central. So we would. Come up with the look, the logos. Um, we, I remember running out with Howie Mandel on the streets of New York, interviewing people, asking them if they knew where Comedy Central was. Like man on the street stuff. Yeah. So we were the ones that we told Nickelodeon that they were orange. Like we would do that stuff. So it was branding. Yeah. You know, um, and it was, you know, Fred and Allen were both geniuses. I mean, they worked with Bob Pittman and creating MTV. So the astronaut with the flag. And you know, logo was all them. Yeah. Um, and so I learned a lot with them and, and they let me get, you know, start directing little spots and things for them. And so. Nice. Yeah. How, how many projects have you, have you directed with Dan so far? There's this is us, the land paradise. I think we've done about nine, nine shows, the neighbors, the neighbors. So at this point you have quite the shorthand a little bit. Yeah. So what happens when he, when he calls you and says, all right, we got a new one. What's the process like between you and he, is it, is it, has it been the same on each, on each, how, how does it differ from project to project? You know, usually it's just Dan, you know, calling up and saying, I want you to come do this. I mean, we had worked, you know, is it was the best bit of agenting. I always say like we were both at William Morris. This is when agents are good. Um, which is usually if my agent's watching, um, if not, but what if they're not? Oh, yeah, if they're not watching, no, no, no, I just remember one day he was like, he was like, Hey, well, there's this guy I want you to meet. This is back in like 2005 and, uh, you may make, maybe you guys will hit it off. And it was Dan. We went and had a cup of coffee and hit it off. And then right after that, we did a basketball pilot and then we did a really weird pilot with Leslie Nielsen that Dan wrote in like 24 hours called Lipschitz saves the world, Ty Burrell, Leslie Nielsen. Wow. It's on YouTube. It is. Yeah. So it was a pilot thing. It was a pilot that didn't get picked up. I'm watching that pilot that didn't get picked up, but it, it, everybody saw it like there occasionally would be a pilot that didn't get picked up, but people noticed it and like, there was one famously called heat vision and Jack that, Oh yeah, that's still, yeah, so it was good for, I mean, Dan already had a pretty big career even at that point with cars and, uh, I think when was tangled? Tangled was 2010. Okay. So that was a little bit later. Um, so, but you know, people know. Noticed it. And so that off of that, I started doing more pilots. So then we did a, did a, we did the neighbors together and gallivant and grandfathered. And, but up to that point, I'd only worked with Dan, um, on comedies. And so then he got into doing, this is us and pitch in the same year. And, and you did pitch as well. I did. That was sort of like, cause Dan was like, come do a, one of these. I was like, they're not gonna let me do it. I'm a comedy guy, you know how they are. And he's like, no, no, no, I'll figure it out. And he did. And so pitch was sort of like. The test case that I wouldn't screw up a drama. And, uh, and then I got into the night, but then I got canceled. Yeah. I got canceled. Yeah. This is us. So, yeah, I know. And now they won't, I don't even know what bit we're doing. And now they won't even let you back in the comedy. I've lost the thread and now they won't let you back in the comedy. Now they don't let me get into comedy. Yeah. Yeah. Now you only have to do switching gears. That's it is a weird, it's a, it's a weird thing to switch gears between comedy. And drama. It's a very different, which do you find more challenging? Hmm. Comedy. Agreed. Yeah. Because you've got the added layer of it's gotta be funny. Yeah. Which is, uh, yeah. It's a, it's a big layer. Yeah. It's all order. And here's, here's, I, I have, I had the experience of doing a comedy on stage a few years ago. A play. And I had, I thought, oh, how fun this is gonna be. And then I'd forgotten how extremely difficult it is. Right. To keep it funny night after night after night after night. Yeah. But the upside of that is, is that you have an immediate response from a group of people about whether or not this is working. For, I've never done comedy on TV or in film. You haven't? What? Can you believe it? It's so funny. You're such a deeply funny person. Yeah. Can you believe it? Was I? You had some funny stuff on This Is Us. That's really nice. How's your, how's your fishing expedition going? He's like, he's like someone. I've never had a chance to be funny on, on television. Ever before. Um. And then he looked right at me like. You gonna break up? Yes, you are. Dude. Thanks for coming, John. No, but I mean, straight comedy. But like to, to, cause you've been working on Scrubs, how, how can you know if it's gonna land? It's gotta be terrifying. It's gotta be like a tightrope. Yeah. Because comedy and television, the writers always laugh at their own stuff. So if they're there, you just think it's funny cause they're laughing. Right. Right. But how do you know the audience is gonna respond to. You don't. I mean, that's the funny part. Uh, to me, um, is that it keeps shifting. So what you think is funny in a writer's room suddenly isn't funny on its feet on set. Right. And then the thing that killed you on set doesn't work for you in the edit room. Necessarily. Right. So it's always a shifting thing. There's stuff that you can do. Yeah. Right. Necessarily. Right. There's stuff that I think, oh my God, this is gonna be so funny. That's gotta be terrifying. With comedy, it's much less about the visual and more about the audio. I find it's about pacing and timing and words, swapping out words and just keeping it tight. That's so important. I remember watching Jimmy Burrows, which I just heard today we lost him recently. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, he passed away. That's so sad. He was so amazing. And I remember watching him do Will and Grace. And the thing that stood out to me was that he was never watching the monitors, rarely. He was just listening. He was pacing and listening, and it was all about. Wow. It was a radio show. Yeah. Wow, interesting. If they ever let me do that. Yeah. You'll get there, John. That's interesting. So you can listen to the music of it. Yeah, there's definitely a music to it, for sure. And pace is one of the things where it becomes like a hack direction to give sometimes, but pace does help, for sure. And then comedy's hard. For instance, we've just rebooted Scrubs, and there's always just 10 pounds of stuff in an 8-pound bag with comedy. It's five days is still the template, and there's gags, and there's bits, and so it's always like nine scenes a day. Right. And so you're behind right out of the gate. That sounds stressful. And now it's like 10-hour days, 11-hour days is sort of what you want to aim for. But back in the day, it was always 14 to 16. 16-hour days. So, you know, then people were, you know, getting in car accidents after a 16-hour day. So that was a bad idea. Which we're trying to avoid. Yeah. Not a good idea. You did quite a few, not only episodes of our show, but big episodes, important episodes. And we had, is there a- Songbird Road Part One. Both Things Can Be True. Family Meeting, which is a personal favorite of mine. None of these are his episodes, either. Yeah, no. He's just been savage. He's been sabotaged by- Yeah. Family Meeting, I think, stands out as a favorite, personally. It also stands out to me because I think it was the earliest I was ever called, ever. Because it was daylight dependent, and I had to get in prosthetics, and I think I had to be there at 2 a.m. Is that the 2 a.m.? 2 a.m. Koch was like, I want her in here early. Oh, my God, I remember that, yeah. Today I will break her. I do remember that one day, yeah. On set time is 4 p.m. Right. And we had, like, four cameras. Yes. Because we had so little time. It was, I think it was the time of year. I remember we were shooting at that hotel out in Malibu. Right, right, right. It definitely was daylight dependent, so it must have been, like, it was fall. We only had, like, a certain number of hours and sunlight, and so, yeah, I just remember being there really, really early. But also the impact of that particular episode was- Well, it was a marvel to watch. It was a marvel to watch you do it, because for me it was easy, because we just basically had cameras everywhere, because we didn't have a lot of time. But I just couldn't believe it was a long scene, and watching you go from, you know, not letting him in to suddenly having that emotional breakdown at the end was crazy. Like, and then the fact that you can hit those heights and then do a reset, what would we give you? Like, five minutes between takes? Yeah. And you'd have to bring it all back to zero. Yeah, yeah. And start over. I mean, for everybody. Because it was, like, an eight-page scene or something, and it was- Yeah. We sort of just did it as a play on its feet, and yeah, it just, it sort of, like- Remind people listening what the scene was? It was a scene for, with all three children in therapy. This was Kevin sort of at his- Most alcoholic. I guess he was, like, his rehab, his- I'm trying to remember. My gosh, this was season two. But it was the first time he was sort of explaining how he felt othered in his life, and that mom had always sort of given preference to Randall and to Kate, and they had their own issues, and yet, you know, he was always sort of set aside to, like, take care of himself, essentially. And I think we all went in with our hearts and minds sort of open, but I think we were- Especially Rebecca was sort of surprised at where the converse- How the conversation unfolded and where it ultimately took us. I don't think anybody was sort of expecting- I remember you had that line that you screamed- When you finally break, you screamed. That he was easier. Yeah, he's- He was easier. Yeah. Just talking about Randall. That's right, yeah. Yeah, it was- That was an episode. Whew! Was that the same episode? Was the other big three, was that same episode? Yes, because while we were in therapy- Yeah, the three of us at the bar. Toby and Beth and- And Miguel were- The new big three. The new big three. That's right. Right, right. The birth of the new big three. Which we shot at some little- The most emotional part. Oh, we shot here in Atwater Village. Oh, you did? Yeah, at the Bigfoot Lodge. Was that where we did it? Oh, cool. Right around the corner. Right down the street. Where you got to be, do some comedy. You got to be funny. There you go, bring a full circle. I think. Yeah, you did a wookie sound. If you don't know, you and Susan were the comedians in the show. Was I? Oh, I know. No, I noticed. Well, and John, too. And John, yeah. Yes, you were. I noticed we were rarely taken seriously. Right. And Griffin. Griffin was Griffin. Griffin. Yeah. Curmudgeon. Yeah. Yeah, he showed up and brought some vaudeville style to the- He was like, our Mr. Roper. Our Mr. Roper. Exactly. Wow. Really bring in a full circle. Who's your favorite Mr. Roper? There's two? I think it was, yeah, it was, let me see if I can remember his name. The first one. Well, he had Norman Fell. Norman Fell, that's right. And then- And then he was replaced by? Barney Fife. Right. Barney Fife. Very good. Who was played by? Don Knotts, yes. And you worked with him. He's my father. Now it all comes out. Tell us more about that. I can't talk about it. There's 23 of me. Not as nice as you. What's it like to be a Knotts? Let's go back to the lightning round. Who's your favorite Pearson? Oh, boy. Don't do this to me. Miguel. You never got to be Pearson. I never got to. I tried. I tried to adopt that name. Yeah. Pearson. My favorite Pearson. Well, you know what? You know what? I'm going to say it's Eris. What's her character name? I forget her character. Tess. Tess. You know why? Because she's working right now on Crew on Paradise. Yeah. So I get to see her every day. That's right. Absolutely. She came in and did a little interview with us. She's very excited about that. Yeah. She's great. Favorite filming location? Well, favorite place to work. If you could work anywhere in the world. Lake Pairu. Yeah. Said no one ever. No. Just a holding tank in the middle of the desert. Well, that's where we did the little boy on the boat that explodes. All the Vietnam stuff was in Lake Pairu. Oh, that's right. Lake Pairu. Right. Which was our comedy episode. I just have such fond memories of all of our Vietnam stuff. Giggling as arms fly. Oh, shit. All right. What was the most difficult episode on This Is Us that you worked on and why? That one. Yeah, no, that one. The Vietnam episode was really intense because we had two days on that lake to shoot the whole sequence. And it had to be so tightly. Wait, what episode was that? That must have been season four. Yeah. I'm trying to see all the different episodes. Kevin Falls wrote it. It's a flashback. So Nikki's in Vietnam and he. Takes a little Vietnam and Mimi's boy out fishing. Oh, is that. Hand grenades. Songbird Road part one. We know, I think. Songbird Road part one, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. So that's season three. Yeah. Season three, episode 11. And which character in the show are you most like? Again, I'd say Felicia Rashad's character is closest to me. I thought you were going to say Tess. You're not going to get a straight answer out of me on these. No. Because the truth is really hard. We're here to talk about the truth, touch. Can I say Ken Olin? I'm most like Ken. Yes. We are all Ken Olin. Yes. All answers are acceptable. Did you. We all stole things from set. Do directors do that? No, I didn't. And I should have. You should have. You stole a whole car. Well, you know. No, I did steal one thing from set. What'd you steal? It was a weird book that was on set. I don't know why, but it was a little handbook on how to make bombs. That was mine, dude. What? I've been looking for that. That was Miguel's. Wait, no way. No. Yeah. That was mine. Where? It's a little 1950s book, and I thought, this is so weird. Where was it? It was just on the set. And nobody. Whose house? In whose house? I forget. It was some set. In the cabin. It wasn't somebody's house. In the cabin. Prepping. Yeah, it might have been in the cabin. I honestly don't remember, except it was. I'm like, this is crazy, so I'll steal it. And I did. And then, literally, I kid you not, last week, I'm going through stuff, and I find it. And I'm like, well, I don't need this. And I probably shouldn't have it, because, you know. Then I was like, I'll donate it to the Goodwill, but then they're going to, like. We're just going to dust it for fingerprints. I'm going to burn it. Did you burn it? No, I still have it. I'll give it to you. Can we have it? We have coffee every three months. I'll give it to you. We'll put it on the set. We'll put it in the back. Put it right there in the middle of the coffee table. That's it. If you bring me on a third time, you're going to get a book. Wow. More That Was Us after this short break. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's new series, East of Eden. Starring Mike Feist and Christopher Abbott as the Trask brothers, and Florence Pugh as Kathy Ames, the complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants, no matter the cost. Only on Netflix. - Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade Electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins, Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Starring Mike Feist and Christopher Abbott as the Trask brothers and Florence Pugh as Kathy Ames. The complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants, no matter the cost. So you just watched 512, season 5, episode 12. As both things can be true. Is that the episode, or are there any other episodes of yours that are worth the rewatch? If you were to direct. Oh boy, I love the one, well, obviously the family therapy one is big. Songbird Road was, I was really, that was probably my favorite. Just because it was so intense. Yeah. And for me, having not done big drama like that, it was really fun to do. And yeah. The scene where your son wanders out of the house and is walking around. Saturday in the park. That was a good episode. And he was amazing. He was amazing. Yeah. I was just watching that kid. I love him. Yeah. We just had to do a shot. This little boy is literally blind and he has to be out on his own walking through a neighborhood. So we set up a shot with stunt drivers everywhere. And we let this little boy just literally walk down the street while drivers were all on walk. He's driving on cue and it was terrifying. Yeah. We, we, maybe last week or the week before we talked about how at the beginning of the season, they kind of set up what's coming with that, with that green egg. Oh yeah. Oh my God. Which is what he stole from set. Oh, did you take the green egg? I didn't steal it. Listen, I didn't steal the car either. They gave it to me. Yeah. They gave it to you. Exactly. You bought the car. I had to pay for mine. I, uh, yeah. At the beginning, I kind of, you know, stake my claim on that thing because I don't know. I just, I was sad when I first of all, you know, knew that I was going to be directing an episode where it was like the impetus of your and your character Toby and Kate's breakup. And I was like, this is, it's such a meaningful episode for me because I loved that couple on the show. Uh, second favorite couple on the show. First one was Miguel and Rebecca. That's right. Obviously. But yeah, I was like, you know, so heartbroken. So I was like, I want that egg. That's my, that's my, it's my Humpty Dumpty. It became a real symbol. The hot take we had a couple of episodes ago was like, this is, this one's a bit of a stretch. The hot take for the rest of like the drama around this grill and Toby and Toby being like. You know, what's going to bring the family together? You know what I think we should do? It's grill some meats. Yeah. Look at this grill. Yeah. And, and it becoming, and then, and then. It's becoming a big. It's the symbol of your, of your, of your parents, uh, marriage falling apart. The demise of Toby and Kate. It's like, it's like we're gripping to this grill real tight. Yeah. There are very few instances on the show where we're like, um, there's something about this that feels a little off. And now. Need some impetus. I smoked the hell out of some wings on that thing. Really? Yeah. Nice. Well, true story. My friend bought a green egg and within a year, his marriage fell apart. Stop. true yeah holy cow well i'm serious no you think i'm kidding no i'm serious you say with a smile yeah so no okay so maybe everything worked out was it because of the green egg i mean i'm just i i wouldn't buy one not direct not a direct correlation there goes our sponsorship this episode brought to you by the big green egg smoke the hell out of some wings after after being on our hugely successful podcast i'm sure people have been reaching out to you directly on online and on social media um so so your mom has have you has your mom shared any stories with you that have really stayed with you about you know about uh about your work on this is us about being chris how long have you been doing podcasts what's that how long you've been doing the podcast thing about 150 episodes okay you're doing great thanks um wait how many have we really done i don't care less than 100 wow you've done 113 wow yeah that's a lot of episodes that's our last one too this is it can you imagine if there was like a gray's anatomy podcast they'd be like doing 23 years of there is one i'm sure there's a rewatch of course wait till it's always sunny does theirs oh yeah they have one too it's on this network yeah do they really yeah it's on this network oh my god yeah oh shoot that's gonna go on to like 2055 yeah who who doesn't have a podcast about their show that's more everybody has a podcast yeah pretty much yeah but usually their guests give real answers anyway anyways back to your mom i just hit the balls and get thrown to me let's talk about adoption oh yeah no we did that last time we did do that last time let's talk about like current events how's it going no let me ask a question what do you want to do you want to do iran you want to do israel what do you want to do no you know what let's go back to the this is us i will say one moment that stuck out and we talked about this last time but it stuck out to me was your nervous breakdown in toby episode at the kitchen sink oh yeah like one of the few times i've been in tears at a monitor are you serious i am now i feel like i'm being punked you're not that's very kind you're not that's very kind of you it's so hard to like so there so there i am a serious podcast so here you sit with that you sit with that why why is it one of the few times you've been in tears i mean it's not the level because i like you number one i don't like to see you suffer that's true and uh no it's just it was just a great you were just great it was a real i mean because we talked you know the page says you know it doesn't give you a lot so it just says toby goes to sink has nervous breakdown yeah right so i don't know how it's gonna play out you didn't have notes like in your script like i want to i'm gonna guide him towards this no well you're a director so what do you do i don't pay attention to what they're doing yeah no but like do you do the thing where i mean you unless i've got a really strong opinion you kind of want to see where they land i just yeah yeah and then you tweak but it's you landed in a really it's a hard thing because you're only gonna do that so many times how many takes you can do that for right you had to do it 50 times in the family therapy because everybody had to have their had to have their coverage and whatnot and you and when it wasn't on you you gave as much in your performance yeah well you i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i mean yeah you have to to the best of your ability but yeah i think you sort of have to gear yourself up for a day knowing okay this is like what i have on my plate today and it's eight pages and we're gonna spend the majority of the day shooting that i think like i had one other little like couplet at the end with sort of the end of the episode where rebecca goes in and talks to kevin in his room and help sort of like you know put a pin in what what the day was and help remind him like no no i was always there and i was always there and i was always there and i was there like do you remember when you were a little boy and you were scared and it was thundering or whatever it's so hard to remember the exact circumstance because it was so long ago that we watched that episode but um i just i remember that scene of getting on the floor with him so it's like just trying to remind him anyway that um although you don't remember i remember like i was i was there for you too we did have our moments um but yeah i just i i think as an actor and i think as an actor you have to kind of prepare yourself um when to sort of like really put your foot on the gas and when to sort of like lay back a little bit knowing that you have a full day ahead of you of take after take after take after take of a really intense scene yeah and not everybody does that i mean i've worked with actors that don't really give when it's not on them i mean i think this show for me was one of the first that i what the fuck was that was was this is one of the first shows that everybody always does i mean i think this is one of the first shows that everybody always brought it when they were right whether they were on camera or not i'd been on shows that were like you sometimes the actors just left and you had to do it with the sand in yeah you know but yeah this was the first show i can't imagine okay right yeah it was i think we all knew that we were a part of something so special and there's an immense gratitude for like the work that we were lucky enough to get to do the words we are lucky enough to get to say and so in many ways it just didn't feel like like what else were you gonna do other than like give it your 110 especially when you looked around and everybody else was doing the same it only encouraged you to up your game to the best of your ability as well absolutely yeah yeah in the episodic world there there are different levels of of directing and i'm sure that over the years the goals have changed for you as far as what you want to accomplish in your career so what is the next stage what do you looking forward to what are you working on what are you moving towards for me it's just about i mean it sounds cliched but it's just uh i I want to work with, you know, good people on good sets. You want good material, obviously. But it's got to be a pleasant experience. I know there are sets that are caustic, and I've been on some of those, and I'm not interested in doing that. I don't need to do that. So that's what was great about this show, was it was such, off-camera, it was such a beautiful place to be, which is probably why people wanted to also be around for coverage on everyone else to be supportive. Yeah, it was the best. But no, it's just to continue to, like, it's nice to do Paradise now, where I can stretch and do sort of bigger action stuff that I hadn't done before. Right. Or to do the land, to do, you know, football stuff that I'm not a big football guy, but then to get into that world. Yeah. That was really fun to do and to stretch. But you also know that you're in good hands. Like, you continue to work with a lot of the same people, whether it's Dan or Bill Lawrence. Like, you're just sort of, you're in the world with, like, with your friends and you're just going, sort of bouncing around from project to project, which is kind of the dream. It's great. Because you know the creative team that's behind you. And the relationships are so important, and you do. You see crew that you've known for years. And, of course, I don't remember a single name. You don't have to. No. You're the director. Yeah. You're not Milo. Milo knows everybody's name. Yeah. I was always, I'm like, God, I'm a terrible person. And he told me he studied the call sheet. Okay. All the time. Yeah. I would do that every once in a while before coming to work. I would flip the call sheet over, and I would see who was going to be there, like, from, you know, the crew. Right. Only when you were directing? Definitely when I was directing. Sure. But sometimes, you know, as an actor, too. Because if I would go, I saw somebody yesterday. Yeah. And I can't remember their name. So I'm going to look it up, like, today. Right. And make a point. And make a point to go up to, and then I know that I'll lock it in. Yeah. It took me years to identify who was doing what. Same. Like, because nobody, I didn't go to film school. I didn't know the, like, as an actor, and especially the way an actor's career starts, you start out in these little tiny parts. You're there for, like, 30 minutes on set. Yeah. And you're trying to gather what's happening around you. Yeah. And it took me years to figure out what the jobs were called. Yeah. Right, right, right. So that I could even cross-reference them on a call sheet. Right, right. To be like, okay, somebody's touching an electric pole. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Best boy grip. What is that? Yeah. Totally. It's super, it's really important, you know, when I talk to kids when I, I've lectured, it's, you know, for film schools on occasion, and the one bit of advice that it's so important, and I always say, if you get any success, do not let it go to your head. Be really nice person to work with because it is a very small town. Hold on, I'm going to write this down. It's a very small town. Yeah. It's too late for you, but I think that. It's too late. That ship's sailed, Chris. But no, because you see everybody over and over and over again. These relationships are so important. And more importantly, with the crews, they're busting their ass to make your, you get to take your little episode with you. Yeah. And it's yours. Yes. They're just going on to the next job. Yeah. And they're working their ass off for you. Yeah. And I know there are some folks I've met that along the way, they're young, they get some opportunities, and all of a sudden, I hear they're just like, they don't know crew's names, they're not, they're being dismissive, they're not engaging, and that's a huge mistake. But then also, you don't know what somebody's going to do with their career and who they're going to be. You don't. In fact, you guys, I don't know if you guys have brought this up, but like, Curry Barker, who just directed like, the biggest movie, box office thing this year. Oh, yeah. Obsession. Obsession. Yeah. Was our COVID monitor. Right, yeah. And imagine like being the guy who comes up and tells you, you can pull your mask up, John. Yeah. Move, get out of here. I don't even know where you are. You and your pool noodle. Yeah. Keep walking. I'm good, yeah. Meanwhile, trying to get my SAG insurance, you know, I just need a job and I'm up for Obsession. Yeah. No, it's crazy. Or Obsession 2. Did you get it? I didn't. Curry Barker was like, remember my little face? Remember what she told you and Mandy? Yeah, I'm a little bit. What's your mask on? Of course I got up on her. She's Mandy Mee. Oh, my goodness. Is there, we've talked about acting careers and how if we were ever given the opportunity to speak to people who are, or younger than us, that it's hard, I find it hard to give acting advice because there is no career that is the same. No. The three of us found our way in to this in anywhere near the same way. With the exception of what I mentioned, which is it's connections through people. Yes. So it's everything I've ever done in this business because somebody called somebody to call me or whatever. It's people you know. It's a daisy chain. But you've made fans. You make fans with, with, I think every job and every opportunity, you should make fans. Right. And that has nothing to do with like how you approach the work or, you know, where you come from, how you got into the business. But if, if you're just, you know, a great person, good at what you do, you're going to make a fan. And that person is going to say, you got to meet this guy. Like your, your agent, your agent was a fan. Knowing that you and Dan would get along. Yeah. Boom. Yeah, it's true. Here you are sitting on this couch with us. I mean, this is it. Yeah. Welcome to the mountaintop. Well, I still am. I have not been in the Grey's Anatomy one. Okay. Which. Did you direct it? No. Some Grey's Anatomy? That's why they won't have me on. There's still time. There's still time. I'm sure there's still some episodes if you want. Oh my Lord. Don't you want to get in there before they close the doors? I would. If anyone's watching, I'll do it. I don't think they're never going to close. Why at this point? Why? It's like 25 years down. People always need healthcare. Yeah. They do. Yeah. And drama. Drama. Yeah. The intersection of drama and healthcare. Yeah. Always going to be viable. I forget. Who's in the urn behind you? That's Jack Pearson. Is that Jack? Yeah. Maybe you've heard of him? Yeah. That is the actual urn. That is the urn. That is the urn. That's what Sterling took from the set. Is it really? That's creepy. Are there fake ashes in there? It is creepy. Or real ashes? No ashes. No ashes at all? No. No. I can get some from the green egg, bring them over. Oh, perfect. We do have. I love that. Good callback. We do. We do have. We have all of. All of Milo's mustache trimmings. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big fluffy pile. Has every actor been on this show from This Is Us? No. We have had. Yeah. Oh, yes. From the main cast. Yes. From the main cast. We've had everybody. We're going to try to have everybody back one more time before we're done. We're nearing the end. Yeah. We're in season six now. What about the kid who played little Jack? Not yet. I know. How old is he now? I mean, let's see. If that was 2022 and he was like six. Yeah. He's got to be like 10, 11 now. Can I be here for that? Yeah. Man, what a cutie that guy was. Let me tell you my understanding of directing. I did it once. Tons of fun. Right? We're about to talk about your episode, actually. We are. We are in the next episode. I have a question. So because you have directed so much comedy and drama, do you have a different approach to prepping for directing comedy to directing drama now? Like, would you say? Oh, when I get a comedy script, I break it down in this way and I am approaching the work in this way differently than with a drama script. No, it's a great question. I know. Yeah. And that's all I have to say about that. It's a great question. Next. No. No, it is a great question. Well, it actually, no. The answer is I basically approach both as a drama. So if I'm doing a comedy, I approach, I approach it all from the underpinnings from story, okay? And I will never forget my first scrubs back in 2001 or two, something like that. This is a long time. And I get my first draft and Bill hands me a draft of the script and he says, the jokes are coming. And I read the first draft and it's a drama. It could have been ER. Wow. Interesting. And I was like, okay, the next draft comes and it's a drama. And it is hilarious. The under, the skeleton is the same. But now it's hung with, it's like a Christmas tree. Now the ornaments are on. Sure. Right? Oh, wow. And it was hilarious. Sure. And so that was when I went, oh, I get it. You, it, you, it's all, don't focus on being funny. Focus on story. Right. And then we're going to add the joke. Then we're going to make it funny. Right. Add the game. Whatever the game is. And then, and then it's like, for me, it's, it's funny isn't just jokes or written lines. There's that. But also then what I try to do is, what I try and bring to it is behaviors. So what's the behavioral stuff that's going to make this land? And then when, depending on the comedy, whether it was like My Name Earl or Modern Family, especially with Modern Family, like the camera work was so important for a joke to land. When that camera panned to you, the timing of that was critical. Yeah. And so we had these operators that, if you had an operator that understood that sense of comic timing, you were great. But sometimes you'd have operators that were just a guest for the day. How do you, how do you, how do you fix that? How do you solve it? You get frustrated. How do you solve it? You yell, scream. You do a bunch of sakes and go, don't know, no. Zoom in on the cigarette on, after that line. Yeah. It sounds simple. It makes such a big difference. Yeah. Sure. Of course, for a show like that, especially. Yeah. Everyone has to have a sense of humor. Every, like the editor. Yeah. The, the, the music has to, the, like. Yeah. I never thought about the camera operators. Yeah. It all has to work in concert with each other. Yeah. What are the, what are some of the jobs that you've had the most fun doing in your career? You mentioned scrubs, but. Well, "Galavant" was, that was, that, that spoiled everybody 'cause. I just had coffee with Tim. Tim Amason, oh my God. on Thursday and you had coffee with him on Tuesday or Monday? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. He's racking them up. Racking up on coffees. I feel left out. I didn't have coffee with Tim. Geez. I know. I'll have to text him. I'll have to do his ass. I'll text him right when we're done here. So Galavant spoiled you? Galavant was, I mean, it was a medieval musical comedy. I love that show. We shot in England. Alan Menken did all the music and it was me and Dan and John and Kat and we just, John and Kat were the showrunners. It shot in England? We shot in Bristol. Oh, I didn't know that. And it was two seasons. I mean, we did all of the recording at Peter Gabriel's studio. Wow. And just being in a recording booth trying to get Rutger Hauer to sing was the high point of my life. I cannot, just the two of us. That's so cool. And he's like, trying to sing, he's like, oh, this is shit. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm so happy. I will do this. And I'm like, tell me more about Blade Runner. Yeah. Wow. But in song. Yeah. In song. Yeah, it was, it was pretty great. I feel like we're gonna, I'm due for a, I've never watched Galavant. It's so good. Oh, you love it. I gotta watch it. I love it. Yeah, I, you know, we did two seasons. ABC just never, I don't know why they didn't get it. But here's what infuriated me about, I don't know, three years ago. Apropos of nothing, the New York Times comes out with an article that says, the best show you never watched, Galavant. And I'm like, God damn it. Yeah. Now? Now? People love to do that after a restaurant's closed. Yeah. Yeah. Too bad you didn't try it. You never ate a Galavant? Tell people when it's open. Oh my God. Yeah. It's the funniest food. Yeah. That's right. It's always after the fact, the post-mortem. Yeah. Yeah. Wait till you see Tim on Munson in that show. Aw. I mean, he steals a show. In which one? Galavant. In Galavant. Oh, in Galavant. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've never seen it. But you were there. You directed it. You go watch it. No, Tim. Just listening. Remember? Eyes closed. I don't know what Tim looked like. I've heard it. It just sounds hysterical. He's so amazing in that. He absolutely stole the show. Absolutely. He's a star. It's the only reason I'm friends with him. Yeah. And my daughter is now like binge-watched all of Psych. Oh, yeah. That was his other big, well, that was what started him. Right. Amazing. But all the shows, they're all, it sounds cliche again, but they're all fun in a different way. I'm going to have to correct you on that. Xena started him. Oh, really? In that Warrior Princess. Oh, wow. As what? Xena. Long hair, bearded. He's really good when he's got long hair and a beard. He's great. That's what he had in Xena. Wow. The beard, beards do a good portion of the acting. It's true. No. It's true. Yeah. He told me he had a long hair. I mean, I remember the character. Well, I'll ask him during my coffee. He does conventions. Yeah, call him. Have a coffee. Learn something. Learn something about him. He'll be like, did I just tell you that? He directed him. He never talked to him, but he directed him. Yeah, yeah. When I did The Land, that was, I think Dan thought it was funny that I didn't know football. Well, I didn't either. I mean, I guess it's maybe more important that a director know football, but. Kind of, but sometimes when you don't know it, you kind of come at it from a different angle, which I think can be interesting. But I also feel like those particular episodes. Yeah, watch the episode. What's happening in this episode? They weren't super football heavy, those two episodes. No, they weren't. Yeah. This is why, hello. It was a little bit more like character driven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have some capsule episodes. We're wondering if you'd come and handle for us. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming and chatting with us again. Oh my gosh, that's it? Thank you so much. It was really good to see you. Wow. Another high rated episode. I think so. Yeah, this is it. Let us know what your mom thinks. I will. Yeah. She says hi, by the way. She loves you all. Hi, mom. As do I. Should we FaceTime her? You can, but she has trouble seeing, so she won't see you. She won't. She'll just hear you. Again, it's all that matters. It's a theme here, guys. It's all that matters. Just use your ears. Hear the music. Okay, well, I have one bomb book, bomb making book coming up. Oh, yeah. Right here on the coffee table. It needs it. This coffee table needs something. Thank you so much for joining us. It was always fun. It's so good to see you. Thank you, thank you. How do podcasts end? Does it just keep awkward like this? Yeah, you look right there at that camera and you say, that was us. Thanks, America. Perfect. Perfect. These next two roasters are from the Sterling K. Brown Show. The Sterling K. Brown Show, this is us. One of them is. Just read it. Just read it. Yes. One of them is a great actor. Some would say even greater than me. In fact, none of the awards I received for my work on this show would have been possible without these men. They have names. I'm certain of it. But, I can't be bothered to remember the names of every supporting actor I've encountered. So, I affectionately refer to them by their position way below mine on the call sheet. In my heart, they will always be number seven and number eight. Number eight is incredibly excellent. Second is standing right over there. Number eight is the most interesting person I have ever met. Number seven is tall. Number eight is handsome enough to be a lead actor just like your boy, Brown. In fact, I would like to commit right here, right now, in front of God and man to producing a project for you. Number eight is the most important person in the world. Oh, and you know, hey, number eight, you know who he didn't thank? Who's that, number seven? His single tear. Oh, jeez. His single tear. He didn't thank his single tear. Oh, that's right. And they're in almost every scene together. They're almost deep. I do see that. You see? You see? Look, guys, it's hard for a leading man to truly understand what it's like to be a supporting actor. He doesn't understand what a supporting actor does. Yeah, how can we put this in terms that you'll understand, Sterling? Supporting acting. Oh, it's like what you do in movies. No, but Sterling, listen, Sterling wasn't always a leading man on TV. John, John has known him for many, many years. Oh, that's right. Yes, that's right. That's why Sterling K. Brown once supported me on a show that I was on, PodCastle. Yeah, and when you support the supporting actor, that's called being a guest star. Right, which is technically, it's below supporting, but still, Sterling's still got the word star in his on-screen credit. Yeah, really nice. I am currently doing supporting acting for the lead actor. I'm currently doing supporting acting of Miss Viola Davis in a feature film. And when I told her that I was going to be roasting the Sterling K. Brown for his 50th birthday, she said, who? I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Of course, Viola Davis doesn't know. She doesn't speak to me. You know, well, Sterling K. Brown, one of the things he does all the time, you know, look at him. He's, you're 50? Wow. He always says, black, don't crack. He's always, he's always yelling it at me. You know what I mean? Number seven, black, don't crack. But I guess, I guess that doesn't, that doesn't work for tendons and ligaments. Right. Because those crack all the time. He's torn all of them, ripped all his tendons. The man, the man is being held together by 50-year-old rubber bands, and he still insists on playing all kinds of sports ball. Yeah. All kinds. Exactly. And next year, I don't know if you guys heard about this, but Sterling K. Brown is starring in the sequel to White Men Can't Junk. Yeah. It's called Wise Men Don't Junk. They just star. Yeah. Don't white jump in. He tells everybody. He tells everybody. And then he hurts himself playing sports with younger, stronger men. That's right. But it's funny. He told me and Chris that he tore his ligaments from carrying the cast of Paradise on his back. Oh, shit. You sure? Oh, I'm sorry. And he told? I thought this was a robe. He said, he told us that we. Well, I'm sorry. Sterling gets to do an Asian accent on screen. And nobody. Oh, national television, Asian accents. Oh, us. All right. We're going off script now. Let's move on. Look, look, look, look at that smile. Look at him. That's very handsome. He is so handsome. Fucking handsome. Oh, my God. He is a handsome guy, right? Yeah. So we love seeing Sterling smile like everyone else does. We love to make him laugh. And Sterling. We heard earlier from Armand. He certainly has this laugh that that is loud. It's not a normal laugh. It's not a show. It's not an auto. It starts down in his balls. Really is where it starts. And like you said, you like Armand said, you are in his presence and he laughs. You don't just hear it. You feel it. You feel his laughing in your balls. Also in your balls. It's a balls to balls kind of laugh. It's the kind of laugh that makes a statement. When Sterling starts laughing. All I can. Hear is. Oh, I have approved of this comedy and I want everyone to know it. I am a well-trained actor and I am being entertained up in this bitch. Right. And what can we say? Let's look. What can we say? Look at this woman. What can we say about Ryan? We saw. Guys, she put this whole thing together. Look at all the people in this room. Beautiful people. She's incredibly talented. Incredibly beautiful. Apparently incredibly patient. Yeah. The fun fact. Ryan show. Both. A is the only person in America right now who can't stand Sterling Gabriel. And still threw a party for him or a bloodbath or a celebration. Who the fuck knows what's happening? We've been up here all. Long tits. Been a long day, guys, Ryan thought the party would be over by now and they would just ask us to leave my heart and mouth. I could have barely stopped Sterling and Ryan both grew up very religious. They both love the Lord. Yeah, they do. Now they call themselves a crunchy black folks. And you forget all that is. Yeah. The only thing in California guys is it's it's nearly Sterling says Namaste a lot. It's not because he's woke or anything like that. He just loves poker appropriation as he saw earlier. They do. They hold on. They do hold on to their faith, though. Ryan Michelle still loves our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May I get an amen? And of course, Sterling believes in itself. Yeah. Oh, and even Andrew and Amari, they do a lot of praying, don't they? They say stuff like our father who aren't in Fogelman. Yeah. Where's it be that day? It doesn't do that. Yeah. The sir. You know what? You know, Sterling. One thing I found about Sterling over the years is he's such a good listener. He is. Yeah, he is. We're talking to him. Everything. Everything you say sounds like it's the most important thing in the world. The most important thing he's ever heard. Yeah. You can ask him the smallest question. Yeah. And he will just sit there and tell you a wonderful story about his fucking time at Stanford. You know, when I was at Stanford. Oh, we get it. You're on video taking tests. I heard it, John. And you. But when I was at Stanford. All right. Hey, Chris, wait a minute. Don't you have a podcast? A podcast with Sterling K. Brown? I sure do, John. Thanks for asking me that question I forced you to put into the script. I have a podcast with Sterling K. Brown that I host with the beautiful Mandy Moore. It's called That Was Us. Please like and subscribe. Hold on. In all seriousness, if you want to hear deep wisdom and heartfelt insight from Brown, you can listen to me. You can listen to any episode of our podcast. Any episode. That's right. Or you could listen to the podcast that he does with Ryan. It's called Sterling. Shut the fuck up. SKV Quiet. I love that. Actually, what's the real name of their podcast? No one cares. Sterling stays. Sterling stays in incredible shape. Oh, my God. He's in not normal shape. It's like superhero shape. Yeah. He always tells me that. He says he stays hard so he doesn't have to get hard. Okay. That's not. No, he's not. No, no, no. No, he's demonstrating so that I can get hard. No. Stop. No. I want to get hard with Sterling. I want to be hard like Sterling. Stop. I just want abs. I just want abs. That's it. Are you okay? I just want abdominal muscles. They're under there. Just. Be working. We'll get some. Oh, my God. I'm sorry. This guy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. I knew this was going to happen. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's your man. Yeah. Sterling was always in the writer's room at This is S. He was always coming up with great ideas. You can ask him. He'll tell you. Did you know? I don't know if you know this, I was telling John that Sterling actually gave Dan the idea for their new show. Oh, that's right. I don't know about this. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh. Should we do a reenactment? Oh, I don't know if we should. Not in front of Mr. K. Brown. Remind me. Press. Okay. Ask him. Just ask him if it's okay. Um. Sir. Sir. Would it be okay if we do acting without you? Can we do acting without you, please? Can we do some acting without you? Is that okay? No. No. No. No. No. Is that okay? Thank you. I'll be Dan Fulbright I'll be Sterling Sterling walks into Dan's office Dan I've got it Oh I got a little bit already Sterling It's the end of the world Just you are a genius And I am stuck in a bunker Oh can I be there No I'm the lead actor and I'm stuck down there With my two kids who I love very much And an extremely hot therapist Who hates taking showers by herself And where's your wife I don't know Atlanta or some shit Okay so Okay let me get this right You live in a beautiful bubble Doing amazing Leading acting And you're surrounded by Incredibly hot supporting cast And Everyone wants to bathe your naked Hot black body And your wife is Stuck all the way somewhere in season two or some shit I mean what would we even call a show like this Paradise I love it Sterling you're the best Sterling Despite all the shit talking We love you You are a wonderful guy And you are an incredible actor And a genuinely wonderful person Ladies and gentlemen Happy 50th birthday CDs to be a sterling K-Rock That was us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios And produced by Rabbit Grin Productions Music by Taylor Goldsmith And Griffin Goldsmith Da da da dum Da da dum That was us That was a HeadGum Podcast That was a HeadGum Podcast That was a HeadGum Podcast Close your eyes Exhale Feel your body relax And let go of whatever you're carrying today Well I'm letting go of the worry That I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS Oh my gosh they're so fast And breathe Oh sorry I almost couldn't breathe When I saw the discount they gave me on my first order Oh sorry Namaste Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.COM today To save on your first order 1-800-CONTACTS Hank joined BJ's Wholesale Club the day he became a father of 30 I coach football Now Coach Hank saves up to 25% off grocery store prices 30 pounds of pasta 3 cases of protein bars 75 sports drinks And that's just pregame He knows teamwork And BJ's knows savings This is your home, Coach Home of the Save Join for just $20 at BJs.com And save 10 cents per gallon for 6 months Open soon Limited time offer, new members only BJ's Home of the Save We'll see you next week.