Chris Harrison Tell All: Cancellation, Divorce & Finding Love Again

- Leaving the Bachelor, did you watch the seasons as they were coming out? - I'll be honest, I haven't watched a second. - No way. - Things don't end how you always want them to, but that doesn't mean it wasn't right. - For nearly two decades, Chris Harrison was the host and face of ABC's Hit Reality Show, The Bachelor. - Did you feel like, in any way, having a public divorce discredited you? - Divorce is hard, no matter how amicable it was. I mean, you're just waiting for the picture in the magazines to view in your ex. - I got the image of my head. - But in 2021, his 19-year run on The Bachelor came to a controversial and very public end. Now, five years later, Chris is making his return to reality TV with a brand new dating show. - What's your take on Warner Brothers sending Fox a season to cis to the vow? - I would be worried about it as well if I were him. - We talk about life after The Bachelor, finding his soulmate, and why Chris's new dating show is already making headlines all on unplanned. (upbeat music) Chris Harrison, welcome to unplanned. - Thank you guys for having me. For the first time in five years, you're coming back to host a new reality dating show, The Vow, so we're super excited to get into that. Super excited to talk. What you've been up to the past five years. - It's been oddly cathartic, soothing, loving, wonderful. You know, it's funny when I left the show, and when you've been working your whole adult life, you just feel like, well, that's what you do, right? You get back to work, you get back to work. - Yeah, and I was really glad I hit the pause button in my life of like, no, I'm just gonna take a break for a second and breathe, and my, our kids, my wife, Lauren, who's sitting back over here. You know, our kids were at kind of this interesting time where one was kind of on his way to college, starting college, our daughter was about to graduate high school, so it was a really good time to like stop and like get her off to school and spend some time with our son, who was at TCU in Fort Worth, Texas, and also gave me time to actually fall in love. And myself, you know, honestly, out of all the years and decades I have been helping people find love, I hadn't found it myself, and so it was nice to hit the pause button because I thought I found somebody that really changed my life, and I think if you're not intentional about love, and this will take us back to the vow in the new show, if you're not intentional yourself, then what do you expect to get? And so I was very intentional about finding this amazing woman and thinking, man, I got something really special here, and if I just go about my way, I'm gonna screw it up. And so, you know, I think it allowed me to fall in love, get married, and then the fire started burning again. And, you know, my wife was a big part of that because she's, you know, incredibly talented. We're in the same business. She had worked in entertainment tonight for so many years, and we sparred on, you know, interviews. That's how we fell in love was really her being such a good interviewer and me having to do these interviews with her, but it was really that fire that started burning again. I'm like, you know what, it's time to get back to work. And let's do what I love to do, which is help people find love. - I find that really interesting that you liked that she pushed you and pressured you in these interviews. Like, what was a question that she asked you that kind of caught you off guard? - This is not to demean anybody who's ever interviewed me for 20 years, 20 years of interviews. I did quite a few interviews, but no, it is a small pool of people that do these interviews. She was an entertainment tonight, but, you know, you run the gauntlet back then. This is pre-podcast era. So honestly, you know, last time I did all the press, this is, we weren't doing all these podcasts. They were shorter interviews, and you're doing them with the outlets. And, but you remember those that are really good, and those that keep you on your toes. When you go in, you're like, oh, Laurenzeema, I better have my stuff together, because I can't just like, just breeze by her. She's gonna catch me if I say something wrong, or she'll catch me if I like devolved something, and she's smart, she's quick. And so I was like, okay, I got to mind my peace and cues when I'm doing an interview with entertainment tonight in Laurenze there. But I relish that. I relish the debate. I always wanted to be good for her. - Yeah. - And it was totally platonic. It was just like, really, I really respected what a journalist she was. And then we fell in love. - I'm curious. When you were over those five years since leaving the show, did you watch the seasons as they were coming out? - No way. - No, just never, it was why, you know, why it's, you know, is that was, it was a part of my life that I enjoyed and not entirely, but that meant a lot to me. I don't begrudge it. And I look back fondly on it actually. But I was like, what, you know, I don't wanna watch it at all. - Yeah. - And you know. - I must have been extremely difficult to see something that you had put your heart and soul into for really your entire life. And then to see it, you know, fall apart in the way it did. I can't imagine what it's like to be pushed out by probably a lot of people that you consider friends and people that you probably had a lot of trust with. That couldn't have been easy. - You know, if I learned anything over the years about relationships and breakups, and I've seen a lot of breakups, is that things don't end how you always want them to. You know, there's very few endings like John L. Waygot where you win a Super Bowl and you right off into the sunset, into the Hall of Fame. You know, it usually doesn't end like the movies. You know, breakups are messy at times. Divorce is messy at times. And this was a divorce. And so it got a little contentious, a little messy. But that doesn't mean it wasn't right, you know what I mean? And so for me, I still look at it oddly as a blessing because it's got me to where I am today. And it allowed me to grow as, again, as a man, as a husband, as a dad, as a friend to my friends, to reconnect, and then to be reinvigorated to create the vow and to want to produce this new show. And really the impetus for this show and the direction it took this new show that's coming out on Fox Nation. So everything led to this. So, you know, I think, you know, God gives you these blessings sometimes. And it's not always just wrapped up in this cute little box under the tree. That's not exactly how God works. - I got to be honest, like, reading up on the articles, like I read somewhere that you got some sort of $10 million exit package, like was part of you thinking, okay, this is my, like, this is my retirement. I like, I gotta just live it up. I gotta, I'm buying a yacht. I'm moving to Italy. Like, was any part of you wanting to lean into that? With, you know, well, you know, the only thing that I thought is when I stepped away from the show and, you know, and it was a mutual parting of the ways. We all decided, you know what, it's time. And for me, it was a tough, it was a tough call. We were, you know, I was in the middle and renegotiating a contract. And, but I felt it was just time to go. And that was, it's a hard choice. You know, again, everything really does come back to love and relationships and, and intentional and being intentional in those relationships. And it wasn't the right place for me anymore. And, and it's hard, that's hard to say sometimes when you're in a marriage. And, you know, sometimes when you're in a long marriage, I hear people say, you know, the easy thing is to walk away. The easy thing is to quit and get a divorce. And I'm not a proponent. I'm not telling people that that's a great thing because it divorces stuff. And, but at the same time, I think the difficult thing is to walk away. The difficult thing is to know that you had something that you could just keep going and doing and you could just, you know, muddle through life in this marriage or in this relationship and this job. Sometimes the tough thing is to make that choice to walk away because it's better for you. And when I walked away, there was a moment where I thought, maybe I won't do this again. Maybe I won't work in, you know, whether I work in this business again, maybe I won't do a relationship show again. And so when I was inspired again and felt this fire to create the vow and to do this new show, it was the most genuine excitement I felt in a long time. I haven't been this excited to get back to television, to get back to creating a show, to reconnecting with the fans that I have kind of hit a hit a break with, you know, haven't cut ties, but, you know, hit the pause button with all those fans 'cause I think they're hungry. I think the timing is right for all of this to happen. And I'm a big believer in timing and karma and, you know, maybe it's a God thing, whatever, you know, you believe in. I believe the vow is here at the right place at the right time and I just can't wait for people to see it. - You know what's getting my money, small businesses. Kids on the corner selling stuffies and lemonade, they're getting my business. - Yes, did we spend $10 from a random kid on the side of the road buying our son a snowman? Yes, we did. - And you know what made that all possible was Square. Support for today's episode comes from Square and they've got big news, you guys. Square keeps rolling out new tools designed to help businesses spend less time managing the day to day and more time growing. - Our local barber that I go to every month, they're also on Square. - Every coffee shop I go to, that's local Square. We're talking about AI that can spot what needs your attention, new ways to help customers discover and order from your business and tools to better manage your money. - Take every payment type from tap to pay to Apple Pay to invoices, manage your staff, payroll and schedule on one place. If you're a small business wondering why you should switch to Square, listen to this, you can take every payment type from tap to pay to Apple Pay to invoices, you can manage staff, payroll and schedule all in one place. - Square launched its most powerful tools yet designed to give local businesses a competitive edge without the complexity. If you're ready to sell smarter, run faster and stress less right now, you can get up to $200 off-square-hardware at square.com/silence. slash go slash unplanned. That's SQUARE.com/GO/U unplanned. Run your business smarter with square. Get started today. - It was really interesting reading comments on social media when you promoted the new show. A lot of people were just so excited. Like Chris Harrison's back, Chris Harrison's back. And looking at just different clips and videos that have resurfaced over the past couple of years, I've seen so many comments of people that have said, hey, when Chris Harrison left the bachelor, I left too. I stopped watching how much of you leaving the show was because of cancel culture and also like what's your take on cancel culture? What have you learned about cancel culture? Ask one that's kind of gotten to experience that very thing in a front row seat. - It was, I don't, people have asked me, do you feel like you were a canceled? I don't know. I think sometimes if you don't think you were a canceled, I don't know. I just feel like sometimes that just makes me act like a victim or sound like a victim. So, you know, 'cause I was just a part of this whole thing that happened and the timing of it all. There was so much that went into it. And there's so, you know, like I have my theory about what happened, they have their theory. The truth's probably somewhere in the middle. Again, when you go through a breakup and a divorce, you know, everyone has their side of the story. And so, and at the end of the day, what I realized is, it doesn't matter. - But like at the time. - At the time, oh, at the time it was rough. And by the way, and I don't want to gloss over the fact that it was brutal for me, for my wife, for my family, for my kids, every, you know, when you go through something like that, you know, I guess maybe one thing people don't have the perspective of is we're kind of by ourselves. You know, you're an individual. You're just a human. And, you know, yes, people know you as a host or television and you've, you know, you've asked for that. You've put yourself out there. But the rest of my life hasn't. My friends, my family. But you're going through it by yourself, as opposed to these massive companies that you're dealing with that are quote unquote against you. And they have kind of the, they have a lot of power, you know, when you're dealing with Disney, ABC, et cetera. So, you know, going through that, yes, that was brutal. And I don't wish it on anybody. It was, it was. - Did you ever see yourself in, sorry, interrupt. It's like with, with how hard that can be. I mean, we're creators on social media. We've seen people get canceled. We've been through, through that as well. I feel like you can't really stick around for a long time without experiencing any sort of hate or trolls. Did you ever find yourself, you know, going to therapy and talking through that with, with a therapist? - It wasn't, well, my therapist is sitting right over there. - Yeah. - You're in life. - No, and it's true. Like on it, so a couple of things. Number one, I think God, well, for my faith, first of all. Number two, I think God, for my family, my friends. Because from a very young age, I did, you know, I think it helped. I wasn't born in this business. I wasn't born in Hollywood. I never really hung my hat on this world. I'm a kid that grew up in Dallas, Texas. I have nobody in this business, my family. We were the furthest thing from Hollywood you could imagine. And so because of that, I came about this very honestly and almost accidentally falling into this world. You know, I was kind of local news in Oklahoma City and ended up in Hollywood and the bachelor and all that stuff. So I guess what I'm getting at is, I had this foundation. And if I could give anybody advice, it's, you know, not letting your job, this world define you. - That's good. - And it never did. What defined me was my family, my faith. You having that foundation. So when you stumble and fall, which you will, there is no perfect man or woman. You're gonna make mistakes. You know, will it be on the grandest scale and make national news like I did? I hope not. But even when that happens, the same principles apply. What matters? And if my life was so wrapped up in being the host and people knowing me is that, it would have destroyed me. But what I care about is, are you a good man? Are you a good husband? Are you a good dad? Do your kids love you? And, you know, are you a good friend? And so falling back on those things really helped. And it saved me, you know, and look, maybe if I had gone through this and I was 25 years old, maybe it would have broken me. Cause, you know, maybe I wouldn't have had the wherewithal to be the man I am later when this happened. But, you know, it was, yes, it was brutal. Yes, it was all those things. But, you know, maybe God said, buddy, you need to be humbled a little bit and it humbled me. And, you know, whatever lessons I needed to get from it, I got from it. And I think I'm bigger, better, and stronger because of it. I think I'm gonna be a better host, a better producer, a better husband. I think I'm more empathetic. I think I'm a better listener and more understanding now of, you know, it has made me a better friend. When I have friends that have gone through things, whether it's on a grand scale publicly or something privately, I reach out more. I'm really quick to reach out and say, hey man, don't text me back. But, I'm just, I'm letting you know I'm here. I'm thinking about you because I just knew what I needed at those moments for my friends. So, again, you know, those blessings, you don't see them at the time, but hopefully you learn from everything you go through. But, again, that foundation is what saved me. Yeah, you talk about that scale and how what had happened was on national networks and such. And that wasn't the first time that you had media that you probably wouldn't have chosen yourself. And you walked through a divorce very publicly, like we kind of touched on. What was that like being like the matchmaker of America? I feel like also I don't know, I want to note. I don't know many hosts of reality shows that have become as infamous as you as Chris Harrison. I'll take that as a good thing. And so, like Chris Harrison, the love doctor, the matchmaker, did you feel like in any way, having a public divorce discredited you in like your title? Yeah, no. Good question. And by the way, it is, you know, when it's a weird thing, divorce is hard, you know, when no matter how amicable it was. And mine was very amicable and as good as it can be, but at the same time, it's still a divorce. So, you know, it's not a great thing. And going through it, you know, I'll never forget, it was like from Ashley Rosenbaum's season to Emily Maynard's season of the Paturets, I was kind of going through it all. And, you know, while you're going through it, you're trying to hold the statement that you're going to release. And, you know, it's going to go public. Things you shouldn't ever have to think about on top of. And you're just waiting for the picture in the magazines of the, you know, the rip page, the proverbial rip page of you and your ex. I got the image in my head. Yeah, you know, and so, and then on top of that, like you said, I'm the guy that's all about love and romance, so the late night shows are coming. You know that the jokes write themselves. And what were the jokes? Well, like, it's so like Jimmy Kimmel, for example, and Jimmy was great. He actually, I knew Jimmy at the time 'cause I'd been on the show a dozen times. And he actually texted me when he's made a joke that night 'cause I was like, buddy, I get it. Like the jokes write themselves. The guy that's all about love is getting it. So, but again, that stuff humbles you. And if you don't have the foundation of faith and family and friends, that stuff can eat you alive. It's always, no matter where you are, what business you're in, it always goes back to those basics. And so, did I breeze through it? No, I don't know if I breeze through it, but I got through it very successfully and healthy because everybody's heart was in the right place. Everybody just worried about our kids. Everybody just worried about our friends and family. And the jokes and whether it was the breakup with the bachelor breakup with my ex-wife or other things, it's the new cycle moves quickly. You know, I always say never get too high with the highs, don't get too low with the lows. This too shall pass. - I heard you on a podcast talk about how when you were going through the divorce back in 2012, how one of the number one things on your mind was how you could be a good dad. And I thought that was really cool. So, I guess I just wanted to ask like, what did you learn at that time and then what were you doing at the time to try to connect with your kids? - Yeah, well, you're parents of three. There's whether you're going through divorce or just today, your only thought is how are my kids? Like right now, I'm sure while we're all talking, you've thought about your kids 20 times. - Oh yeah. - Maybe I'd love to think that you're actually caring about what I'm saying. But I also know you're thinking about, okay, I have a one-month-old, we got this, we got a nap. And so, that's all you think about when you're a parent, right, you're just like, how can I be a good parent? And so, when you go through something, your whole life is about protecting them and making sure they have opportunities and all those things. And when you create strife in their life, which a divorce does, it creates, you know, contentious moment in their life, you're just like, okay, they didn't ask for this. This is my feeling anyway. They didn't ask for this, they didn't sign up for it. So, your job is to just take care of them and to protect them and make sure they're feel loved and make sure they know they didn't do this. And yes, mommy and daddy might be separating our kids. You know, we're kind of young. I think if I remember 10 and 12 or 11 and 13, somewhere around there at the time. And so, they were old enough to kind of know what was going on, but also not really. They were in elementary school still. So, it's just making sure, you know, talking, going a little extra step of like, I went in and spoke to, I think my son was in fifth grade at the time, so he went and spoke to his teacher just to make sure, hey, we just keep an extra eye out. This is what's going on at home and just make sure he's cool. And, you know, and just little things like that, where you just like, that's the only thing that matters. and what makes you a better parent is, I think, look, and I'll speak to you guys, your parents are three, you know, it's not that you're not always on, but when you got a partner that's with you all the time, you can take a little bit of a break. When you're a single parent, there is no break when they're with you. It's just, you're on 24/7. So it just, it probably made me more attentive and more intentional when I was in, when they were with me. And I was still traveling a little bit with the bachelor. And so that was also difficult coming in and out and still trying to do the show and make a living. And so they would have a future and doing all those things. And then, you know, they got old enough, they would travel with me from time to time on the show. - Yeah, what did parenting look like while you're in Thailand and all these foreign countries traveling all over the world for a reality TV show? Like that's a very unique experience that not many people have. Of all things, you know, when people always, you know, had asked me what were your favorite seasons and things, I said, well, honestly, if you asked me personally and I could just be honest, it would be things where I watched my kids climb on the Eiffel Tower. And you know, we would walk down to the truckadero every night. We had an apartment there in District 23. I think it was kind of behind the truckadero and the Eiffel Tower and we'd walk down and get crepes. But my kids called them chocolate tacos. They'd say like, can we go down to get chocolate tacos? - I like that better. - And so that was like our thing. And you know, it was like those memories playing ice spy and when we're on the train and my son, he was young enough and so the only thing he knew 'cause the Eiffel Tower was there. Every ice spy ended in Eiffel Tower. And so no matter what it was, I spy something blue. And it always got Eiffel Tower. And so, you know, those things were just cool. They, you know, got to go to Bora Bora and Hawaii. - Wow. - Like, they traveled with me around the world and to give them that worldly view and to watch them see so many cultures and meet so many different types of people. It was really that stuff I love. There were hard things about traveling and leaving and I miss some plays and lacrosse games and soccer games and stuff like that. And that's just brutal, but that's every parent. You know, you do the best you can 'cause at the same time, I know people are like, you're on TV but I'm also just trying to make a living and you know, make sure my kids have the best opportunities in life. And so that goes with it as well. You're doing a job. Sometimes upgrading your routine doesn't mean changing everything. It's just about finding one thing you can do a little better. If hair health is something you've been meaning to pay more attention to, now is a great time to make it part of your routine. And that's where NutraFull comes in. NutraFull is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. And they know what they're talking about. Because hair health isn't a one size fits all, NutraFull offers different formulas for both men and women and at any age or stage of life. I'm on the NutraFull postpartum which I'm so glad they have a formula specifically designed for this stage of life because I have never experienced hair shedding like I have when I'm about four months postpartum. And now the NutraFull women's formula has been upgraded to its most advanced version yet. It's 100% vegan, biotin-free and comes in a smaller capsule size to make your daily routine easier. See, thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months. Right now, NutraFull is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit NutraFull.com and Ninja promo code UnplannedPod. That's NutraFull.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com promo code UnplannedPod. That's really cool 'cause I didn't necessarily as a viewer realize, "Oh, your kids are traveling with you too to some of these places." But now your kids are quite a bit older. Yes. They're probably, are they married or are entering the dating scene? They're entering, yeah, they're entering the dating scene. Is it hard for you not to intervene in there? No, you know what's funny? I think of all the things of being a host of the, like you said, the love doctor, whatever. I think I'm a better listener. The show taught me to be a good listener, to be empathetic and to ask questions instead of, I think when I became a dad, what I knew was my dad. It's the only thing you know is what you've seen before. And so, and I had a wonderful, I have a wonderful dad. And, but he was very, he was Texas. A lot of Texas justice and Texas wisdom is very black and white. It's like, my way or the highway. And so that's how I became a dad. It's like, by God, because I said so, you know? And then I kind of quickly realized, "This isn't, I think maybe there's more to this." And so, you know, being strict, I kind of found this middle of the road with my son and then with my daughter, even more so. But it made me more empathetic, more understanding, more conversational of like, "Hey, ask them where they're at." Ask them what they're feeling. And so, I think honestly, all of this made me a better dad in these situations of, you know, not flying off the handle of, you know, and I will say my dad and mom, too, were wonderful at this. But, you know, if something crazy happened in my life, you know, my dad immediately wouldn't go to a thousand miles an hour. His first thing was like, "Are you okay?" "We're okay." Now, let's deal with this. And I always took that to, so I try to do that with my kids, you know, say they get in a car wreck or whatever, or do something silly. I'm like, "Are you okay?" They're like, "Yeah, okay, we're gonna be okay." So, let's deal with this. If you made a mistake, let's handle it. And so, it's made me between my parents and also hosting the show. I think I'm a better dad. And probably a better husband. You don't have to ask my wife, but I think I'm a better, I was a better boyfriend, better husband. I think that's probably fun for me. A little pressure on the romance, though. You know, when you're the guy-- That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. You know, when Lauren and I, who we were then dating, we're kind of, you know, skirting around and hopefully no one was finding out about us. You know, I was like, "Okay, we're going on a date "and we're in a foreign country." It's like, "Wow, do I have to get like a hot air balloon "and a submarine and a, you know?" I feel tired. Yeah, like rent dolphins. Did you never do anything like that? I did. You did. Okay, all of a-- Bachelor date that you guys had been on. Well, so we snuck, we were shooting, I think it was Hannah Brown season and we were on the island of Crete in Greece. And, okay, this is bougie. I rented a helicopter to fly us to Santorini. That's cool. Oh, okay. I was crazy about her. I wanted to seal the deal. Guys, it's what you do, man. You're seeing, you dance, you do what you can do. How soon in the dating, did you rent the helicopter? Oh, this is a little bit in. Because, you know, by then, if I wanted it, 'cause we weren't public then, but now, you know, the show's gonna know, you know, 'cause he was around, you know, like the producers knew and all that. So I was like, I was prepared for it to get out. You gotta be at that stage. So, was this a year-in, two years-in? I don't know, babe, do you remember? Probably. What year was this? This was a couple months. Okay, it's a few months in. Oh, this is a couple months into dating. I will say, you know, it's funny. Was this pre-2020? Was this pre-the-pandemic? We met in 2018, well, if we didn't meet, but we started dating in 2018. Okay. So yeah, this is a pre-pandemic. And so 2018, we started dating. And I will say, it was kind of advanced because, hey, I was at the point in my life where I was, I just, I found this woman. I was like, falling madly in love with. And I'm like, I, you know, I almost went, you know, Harry met Sally. It's like, I don't, you know, when you meet that girl, I don't want another day to go by. Why am I wasting time? And so, I just felt different about this woman. And she kind of just knocked me off my feet. And I was like, whoa. Because I dated for a while. Again, you know, kind of like, after the hosting thing with Batcher, I felt the same way post-divorce. I took my time to like, hit the pause button. Like, let's just take care of the kids. You get healthy and let's, let's rebound and then be ready for, you know, but I think it's when you don't see it coming. And I didn't, you know, you don't see love coming. It just hits you upside the head. How long has you waited to introduce her to your kids? Oh, good question. How long was that? We waited a minute, that actually we did wait for. But, you know, it's funny, I had a great conversation with my kids later, you know, I asked them, I'm like, do you guys want to meet somebody who dad's dating, you know, 'cause like, you're going through all this stuff. And my kid, I let my kids tell me, they said, we don't want to meet everybody. But if someone becomes important to you, then they should be important to us. Like, we don't want to, we don't want to like, wake up. And it's like, dad says we're getting married today. And it's like, whoa, whoa, we haven't even met this person. But at the same time, we don't want everybody that comes to the door. And I was like, oh, it's, they taught me that. So again, I think it's going back to asking questions. It's, yeah, I don't be and know it all as a dad. Like, you don't know everything. I was like, get their opinion. And so when, I think when, when Elzy became so important in my life that as soon as I felt like I was hiding it from people, like, you know what I mean? I was like, okay, this feels like I'm hiding something. And I'm like, I don't want to hide this, the fact that I love this person. I'm falling in love with this person. Then it felt like the time. And then it was introducing her to the kids and going, starting going to the cross games and recitals and all the stuff. And being around at dinners and when they-- Were they in high school at the time when you guys-- Middle school, middle school, okay. Yeah, in high school. I think, I think-- Lauren's shaking her head. Taylor was a freshman. Yeah, so I think Taylor was finishing up middle school, heading into high school and Josh was in high school, okay. I can't stop thinking about your daughter bringing home a boy and she's like, it's Chris Harrison. You might have heard of the show. Bring your A game, plan something big. You better. Because you can sniff the BS. I feel like I'm good at asking the right questions. And you know, I'm not the typical, the cliche of like, I'm cleaning my gun, you know, on the porch when he walks up. Where is that a road? Yeah, yeah. No, yeah, I'm more of a silent assassin where I'm like, you know, like, I let him-- I let him talk. You know, I want to hear, get him talking, you know, I want to hear what they say and ask, ask some pertinent questions and kind of get the answers that I'm looking for in the long haul because I don't want their guard to be up. Has there ever been one that you're like, honey, not that? You know what? Honestly, I give my kids a lot of credit, they are really smart and really good and I will pat Lauren and I on the shoulder a little bit of, I think we have a great line of communication. And I wish the same for you guys with your kids is to always, you know, I always tell parents, if I can give you any advice as a parent, like love them and be present. If you do those two things, everything else will find its place. Yeah, there's a million micro things along the way between those. But if you are present in their life and I mean, know who they're hanging out with, know who they're dating, be present, love them, they're going to communicate, have that line of communication open to where with our daughter especially, you know, I see it on the show. If I walk in and I tell Ari, lie and die, Ari, you know, Lauren's the worst thing in the world for you. What do you think and dude, you're so dumb, what's he going to do? It's funny you mentioned Ari because I called him up yesterday, I go, Ari, I'm interviewing Chris Harrison tomorrow. What's the question I should ask him and he laughs, he goes, oh my gosh, this is so silly, but you got to ask him out this date that I sent him on. Oh, yes. So Lauren and Ari, she's already mad. So Lauren, so Lauren's team is my wife, I call her, I'll call her LZ because that's what I really call her. So because Lauren, lie and die. So Lauren Ari started a dating app, I don't know if it exists anymore, but we love them. They are such dear friends and I married, I officiated Ari and Lauren's wedding and Hawaii, like that's how much I love them. And so they started a dating app and said, hey, we need some publicity and some stuff to go viral. Can we set up a date for you and Lauren in Austin, Texas? I was like, of course, man. And so, yeah, the app was you go on and Ari lying, I can his wife curated date for you. So they sent a limo and whatever we go to this art place and we're in this weird, they didn't send us a limo. We're in this weird part of like this industrial section on the east side of Austin, we're like, where are we? This is weird. We get out and we kind of go into this warehouse and I'm like, I was kind of like, I don't even know if this is the right place. And this really kind of Bohemian artsy woman is there and it's like the canvases are out. I'm like, okay, you know, cool, we're new art. And then I forget exactly what she said, but I don't think she asked us to get undressed, but I think she started to get undressed. She's like, I'm going to get undressed now and get naked. And there was like a record scratch in a movie where my wife and I just stopped. Our eyes got big. And we did, we both didn't know what to say because you immediately were both Midwesterners. So we both, we both lead with kindness. And we're like, we don't, we're like, immediately all these things are going through your head. This is Ari and Lauren. We don't want to be rude to them where we want to do this right at the same time. My wife and I don't want to be naked with another woman. That's not okay. And we're like, this is weird. And we're just in a warehouse anyway. It's like, it's not even sexual or anything. It was just like, what? And luckily, and I'm like, I'm also a man in this situation. So I am so awkward. Thankfully, my wife jumps in. Elsie's like, yeah, so maybe we don't, maybe we don't do that part if that's okay. Like maybe we just stick to the art. Like, can we still, because the whole thing was, we were going to draw this woman nude. Yeah. And she was going to stand in front of us naked and we would just, and we're like, well, can we just maybe like do something abstract or we will still paint sketch you, but like just close on. Yeah. And so that's so nobody got naked, but it was a really awkward moment. Immediately, immediately, we get in the car and we call Ari and we're like, what the, do you do? And he is laughing his butt off. He's howling because he knew how awkward that was going to be for me. And I'm like, you're such a jerk. You're such a, it was almost like a total setup. I feel like I would have, I totally forgot about that. We were like, call me on it. And he even talked about that in a long time. That was such an awkward. Now, I mean, I wish there had been like, you know, punk, daschen, kutcher in the back is, I promise you, like, I don't sweat. I had to have been sweating. I'm like, oh my god. What do I say? I'm like, I don't want to ruin this moment, but I don't want to be naked and like, oh my god, you thought you were going to get naked? I don't know, man. It just got weird. All the blood just rushed from my head. And like, thank God my wife had to wear it all to be like, hold please. Like, can we just not get naked? Nobody's getting naked. We're just going to like, so you just painted her with her clothes on. I think that's what you just had this, this, or maybe we painted model, he probably painted like flowers. Was she offended? Like, do you think, you know what? Did she want to take her clothes off? No, honestly, what happened was it turned out to be really cool. And she was awesome. And she actually walks behind us while we were drawing. And actually she was really helpful. And it was a pretty cool art class after that because I actually love art and I love painting and I love, and I kind of like the idea of doing that. And so it actually turned out being really cool and she was really cool. She was very, you know, very, you know, the saying is keep us and weird. She was kind of a cool hippie, you know, artsy hippie. And I was like, oh, this is actually pretty cool. We had a good day after everyone kept their clothes off. I feel like I would have not wanted to do that, but I would have been way too shocked that I would have just been there painting nipples probably. I think there was like a couple of glasses, I was like, I need a glasses. Yeah, I don't want these. Okay, I'm going to be okay here. I'm pretty sure our kids think that a credit card is a magic wand. We're the phone tap, you know, I'm always doing taps today. It does feel like magic. And I feel like in this day and age, it can be very confusing for kids to understand money and how it works because we are really living in a cashless world. We have to be very intentional when it comes to teaching our kids about finances and even financial literacy. And we are so thankful for the resource that cash app has designed just for this. Cash app now offers managed accounts for kids ages six to 12 that grow with them all the way to adulthood. All with no subscription fees because building money habits shouldn't cost extra. The account runs through you, so you're not just watching from the sidelines, you're actually in it with them. That's what makes it a real teaching tool. Every time money comes in or goes out, it's a chance to talk about it together. You set spending limits and you can lock or unlock their cash app visa card anytime from your own app. Automate their allowance and track the flow of money in and out together. Kids can start building real saving habits early by earning interest on savings. So when you're explaining the difference between spending now versus saving for later, they can actually see their money grow. It's structured independence. They get real life practice with money and you're right there with them through every stage. I cannot wait until we have a six year old. They're getting signed up immediately for this. Download cash app today and open a managed account for your child. Visit our link in bio. Earlier, I heard you make the distinction between falling in love and being in love. And I don't know of a better opportunity to ask Chris Harrison, what are the stages of love? How do you know when you're falling in love? How do you know when it's real like you are in love and it's the long lasting love? You know, look, do I believe in love at first sight? I really do. You know, I do. Like, I'm, you know, my first date, Elsie and I went to this place to have lunch. And like, if you had stopped the tape and asked me as I got in the car that day, you know, did the old ITM interview, you know, like the show, I would have said, this is the one. Like, she's the one. Like, you know, I actually went on the way home, called a friend of mine and it was like, this one's different. Like, this is different. And so did I know it then? Yes. But, you know, as a, as a dad and as all these other things that were weighing, you know, that I'm bringing to the table, I had been married before. She had been married before. So it's like, there's a lot more than just like, hey, let's throw a ring on it and let's do it. Let's the caution of the wind. But if you would ask me, sure, but then I think there's that stage where I'm glad we dated and then we started traveling together. And then I met her family and she met mine and just every step of the way you're like, this is insane. Like, you know, she loves family as much as I do. And I'm like, oh, my God, I love her mom and her sister and her brother. And then she, you know, met my kids and the kids are like, love her and adore her and, you know, watching, you know, my daughter and her fall in love and become best pals. And because my daughter is also going through that weird, you know, phase and of junior high into high school, which is buckle up. Well, you guys have boys. But you know, when you have girls, it's like, man, that middle school years and having an amazing woman with me to kind of walk her through those years. I'm like, this is great. And so, yeah, you just, every stage has made me love her more and more. And then you're like, okay, that's, I'm done. And it got to the point where I dislike saying, I was like, I can't call you my girlfriend. It's so juvenile. And it doesn't, it doesn't encapsulate what I'm trying to say here or what I'm feeling. And that's when, you know, we made the decision to go public. We like went to the, a party at the Chateau Marmont that night and walked the red carpet together. And then it was very freeing. And it was like, oh, this is great. Now we can be out in the open and I can scream from the rooftops, you know, all the just the silly things that I hope to create in the vowel, like that feeling of euphoria and love where you're like, you know, it's right. And I don't want another day to go by without telling everybody all the cheesy stuff. I loved feeling that. And, you know, I think I was a good host before. But I think now the host I am with more wisdom or experience and I think going through a divorce, dating, finding the love of my life, getting remarried, doing all these things has made me a better person to host the vow. I'm more empathetic, I'm more understanding, I get it, the breakups hit harder, the love hits harder, all of it. It's fun for me to be in a position where I feel like, I get this, I get where you're at. - So is love a feeling? - Is that too simplistic? I think it starts as a feeling, and then gets much deeper than that. It becomes a full emotion, a movement, and I think it gets more spiritual than that. - One of the most common questions is, are soulmates real? Do you Chris Harrison believe in soulmates? - Yeah, you do. - I do. - Yeah. Yeah, is that cheesy? - Or, I guess, well, I'm curious 'cause I've heard so many people who-- - Do you guys not? Because you seem skeptical. - I didn't tell him I was like, I don't think so. I was like, well, yeah, I'm anything. - I'm a data nerd. I'm a data nerd, and I'm like, there's just no way if I was born in Italy and Abby and Illinois, you know, what are the chances that we would have met? I probably would have married someone in Italy and should have married someone closer to it. Like, we grew up two hours from each other. - Yeah. - We met doing theater at a professional theater in St. Louis. Like, it was-- - Theater nerds, I love it. - Yeah, we're theater kids. So, I don't know. Just jazz hands, jazz hands. I think you would have an interesting perspective on soulmates because I've heard people that have been through breakups say, hey, this relationship, I don't regret anything. I don't regret that. Like, it was good for that time of my life and things changed and now I'm moving on. And so, yeah, I guess like since you're on your second marriage, like, fill me in more on the details of like, why do you actually-- - Well, I think there's a, you know, look, I think you can go beyond marriage, go beyond a wife or spouse. I think people do come into your life for a reason, sometimes for a season, you know, as a parent. You guys are about to go through this as your boys get older. You're gonna start having friends from kindergarten. Then you're gonna start having friends from soccer and baseball and piano, whatever you get your kids into. Like, that's kind of your friend group. And sometimes you're gonna be like, you know, because of your kids and their sleepovers or whatever, you become inseparable. It's like, you're like, oh my God, we're the best of friends. And then they just, you kind of go your separate ways for no reason at all. Like, there's nothing bad that happens. But, and then you're like, oh, remember we are such good friends with the Thompson's? And it's like, we don't, I haven't seen them in 15 years. And I have friends like that that, if I saw him today, I'd give him a big hug. But they kind of came into my life for a reason in a season. And, you know, there are, you know, marriages like that too, where, you know, you're young or you make a decision of thinking, you know, having all the right intentions in the world, and maybe it doesn't work. But, I think if you keep your eyes open and your heart open, you do find, and you can find that soulmate. Not all of us are lucky enough to do that. Not everyone does. But I do think you can. And, but maybe that's also just me being the cheesy love guy. - The cheesy love guy. - I see you being very skeptical. Do we need to unpack this in their areas? - Obviously, all we need to do in this? I'll be honest, like, learning about you guys, I really, like, you guys are really good at what you do. It's clear that you've spent so much time honing your craft, being good at asking good questions. And so, I don't know, I just take this seriously. Like, I feel honored that you're here. I feel, it's not, I feel like if you had told me when I was a kid watching my mom watch the bachelor. Like, hey, one day you're gonna interview that guy on TV. I'd be like, sitting in your living room. - Yeah. So, I take this very seriously and I'm super happy that you're here. - I have a question for you. - Yeah, go for it. - LZ says, "How do you define Somme?" 'Cause that's a good question, too. It really is. - I kind of think about, oh my gosh, is it Aristotle? Or the philosopher that talked about how, or it was like a Greek belief that there's like these two perfectly shaped pieces that fit together in a way. I'm like totally dropping the ball right now. But like, I think of it like that, like where it's where there's only one person for you. Like, out of seven billion people in the world, almost eight billion people now, there's only one out of those billion. And that's where I, like, 'cause I love Abby more than anything in the world. And I love our life and I love our kids. I just know that like, there is probably a better person for me. - There's a better guy. - There's a better guy out there. - But I will say, it's gonna be a better guy. It's cool about marriage. There's someone that's more attractive than me and funnier than me, definitely funnier than me. But like, what's cool about marriage, though, is like I get to learn her and know her and get to like build into this version of myself that is the perfect match for her, if that makes sense. So that's what I think is cool. I think sometimes if people believe in soulmates, they're like, "Oh, marriages, we're having a rough patch. "This was a mistake." - Well, look, let's get on a spiritual level, too, because I think that's where you have to go because you bring up a good point. And I think God, if you believe in God and you believe in these things, and I do, you know, can put things in front of you, put opportunities in front of you, people in front of you. If you choose to have your eyes closed and walk right by them or choose to screw them up, right? We can be our own worst enemies. And you put the best person and best thing and best opportunity in front of you. And you mess it up, or you, you know, you, like you just said, were you perfect the day you met her? Well, you guys are childhood sweethearts. I'm gonna say no. You weren't the man. Your brain wasn't even close to being formed yet. So no, you were a boy and you became a man. But you became a man that wanted to be better for her and with her. You could have gone the opposite direction, right? And so you would have screwed that opportunity up, you know? So there is a spiritual side to this. You could get, we could go way down into the, into the rabbit hole. Something I've learned over the years is the most meaningful gifts when it comes to the holiday season aren't always the trendiest or most expensive items. I'm talking about something that has sentimental value, something that maybe captures a memory that you have with the loved one. And that's why we are huge fans of Shutterfly. They make it easy to turn your favorite photos into gifts like photo books, ornaments, calendars, mugs, and blankets. And they even have puzzles, coasters. Think about how fun it would be. Gryphon puzzle for Aggie and an Aggie puzzle for Gryphon. Oh, so cute. They would love that they would have puzzles and it's their favorite person ever. Oh, yeah. And we've been using Shutterfly for years. I remember in high school looking at Abbey's old family photos on Shutterfly. You're not going to just necessarily scroll through old photos like that all the time on your phone, but you will if it's in a physical book on your table. They make great talking points for when you have guests over. Make something that means something this holiday. ShopShutterfly.com/audio for gifts like custom mugs, photo books, calendars, blankets, and ornaments. And right now, get 40% off your order plus 10 free holiday cards with promo code unplanned. Details are on the side. I'm sure, like, now that you've been, you're not, yeah, you're not your, you're not in your 20s anymore. You know, you have kids in college, like now in-- - My brain is supposedly formed. - You're more mature. - Yeah, your-- - Yeah, my frontal lobe. - Are you taking on spirituality and faith in God? Like, it seems like that's a bigger part of your life now. - No, it's not a bigger part by any means, but I probably speak of it more. And obviously with our new show, The Vow, that it is that is a part of it. You know, it's definitely a cornerstone of this show, but that's more of what's going on in the world less about me. But you know, I've never been a big faith guy where I go out and feel the need to preach to people and speak the gospel and like make, you know, it's my way or the highway. Again, it's always been, it's what's driven me. It's what helped me form my opinions and my decisions in life and parenting and how I was raised. And the people I looked up to the most were like that. But again, I came from kind of this very humble place with a family that wasn't in show business and show business never lent itself. You know, that wasn't the show I was on before. And so, but if I'm being honest, it's what drives a lot of my life decisions on a personal side. And so, yeah, I think it's a, but as you get older, I think you do gain more perspective in life. I hope you learn more, you learn to ask questions and you learn to, and you learn to listen a lot more. - Bringing up your new show, the vow, you say that faith is a cornerstone of it. How will the contestants be dating differently? Or will they be dating differently through this lens of faith versus like how dating looked on the bachelor's? - Well, it's not, you know, it's, I don't think faith makes you date differently. The vow is a show that in my opinion is the most authentic, real, raw, dating show that's ever been made. And I don't say that lightly. And that's why I'm so proud and so fired up about it. I think it is intentional and authentic. And that, those two things, if I could pick two words to describe it, that's it, authentic and intentional. - Was this your idea? Like, did you, was this your brain? - Partly, partly. It was a group thing, my executive producer here. a partner in life and in business. We have our production company and worked alongside Fox Nation, Lionsgate studios. - Did you pitch it to them? Like you guys came up with the idea yourselves and you pitched it to Fox Nation? - We started talking about a show and then along the way, and it was great. I mean, again, talk about a God thing. Talk about, if you wanna be cheesy about a relationship, I love Fox Nation. The way they work is they love talent. They find talent. And then they're like, let's do something. Let's cultivate this relationship. Let's get to know each other and we kinda started dating. And then by the time we were married, we kinda had this idea that was born out of, Lauren and I, Lauren's a great journalist. And we started seeing more and more stories about this spiritual awakening that's happening in our country. More and more young people are going to church. More so than their parents are. They're searching for something. Foundation, salvation. And I think more and more we are hearing and seeing these reports of just how brutal it is out there. People come up to me, you know, that's kind of one of the cool things of hosting the show I did for so long. People feel like they know me and they wanna come up and talk about love and relationships. And inevitably it is the same thing of like, oh my gosh, can you please start a new show because it is brutal out there. Like you can't find anybody good and dead of it. - I saw it interview, or it wasn't an interview. I saw a TikTok, this girl was just filming you on a golf course and was asking you, Chris Harrison, Chris Harrison, like what's your new favorite reality TV show? And this was maybe like a year ago and you said, love Island, it's kind of trash, we're kind of good. And they're like, yes, it was so fun. - Yeah, I was at the American Century championship in Tahoe. And, but yeah, so I just think, you know, people are having a hard time finding love, finding where to find love. Where do I find a really good guy? Where do I find a really good woman who could become a wife, who wants to get married, wants everything that I want, right? Marriage, kids, all of it, what's you guys have? These two things kind of butted heads and Lauren and I and our producing partner are like, this is it. Like what if, what if we did a show? Cause I'd been pit shows, we had talked about ideas and things kind of came and went. I was like, no, that's just an anecdotal idea. It's not deep enough. It's not. And then when we finally hit this nail on the head of what if we raise the bar as high as it can go? What if we make the most intentional, authentic dating show ever? What if we have people of faith that want a marriage based on faith grounded in that rooted in, I really want to get married. I want to have kids, I want that life. You know, in this world of swiping and situations ships and hookups and like meaningless, you know, things that kind of, you know, the things this generation was told is the way to go. What if it wasn't? What if it's this other way? And so like, let's just shine a big bright light on that. How did you guys keep from casting people that just want to be on a show to gain followers? I give credit to Lindsey Liles and our casting agency. And Lindsey, who'd worked with me on the bachelor for many years, she was a young producer, worked her way up. She was unbelievably talented. And she started a casting agency because she has a family now and kind of wanted to step off the travel train and be at home. And so I called her and she's like, oh, I'm on this. Yeah, I got it. And so we started working with her and she did a terrific job. And you know, the way we like to describe it is we put a velvet rope up and we did an extensive search for not perfect people. And that's, you know, I want people to understand that yes, these are people with faith in their heart, but they're not perfect. No one is. It's those beautiful imperfections that make for great story. And it's not this monolithic group of people where it's like, oh, they're all the same. Just pick which one. No, it's these amazingly different stories, very diverse cast. And let's bring them all in and, you know, because I think a great show and I hope the vow does this, it will ask a question, not, not answer it. I'm not telling you this is the way. This is not like, hey, you know, you need to do this, this and this. And that's the only way to find love. And that's the only real thing. No, no, it's, it's asking that question of, what if, what, you know, the social experiment, what if we raise the bar? What if we bring all these like-minded people together? What debates will we get? What drama will we get? Can we find love in this way? That's, you know, those are the questions I want to ask. And the answer is, yes, you get the drama unequivocally. You know, when matters of the heart on this level, when you raise the stakes this high, you get the drama. But at the same time, you get these real honest conversations that you're, you're not going to be used to hearing on reality TV. We were all mesmerized as producers sitting in the control room listening to them talk about their faith. Talk about, you know, sex before marriage, after marriage, whatever. All these things that, you know, I think a lot of other, you know, opportunities, they avoid that. They're like, oh, no, it's not getting into that. We're like, no, no, y'all have the real conversations. And then let's take all the obstacles away. You know, there's, there's no, no roses, no elimination ceremonies. You know, none of the- Are there fantasy suites in this? No fantasy suites. Because there's, like, sex before marriage, like the, the wait until marriage part is, that's a big part of the show, right? No. Oh, it's not. And yes. So like it could be because it's a faith based show. If it's something you guys want to talk about, then we would allow you to talk about it. So, you know, to answer your question, I'm not, I'm not being silly, innovating it. But so what we wanted to do was let's take all the, uh, cliche things out of the way. Let's take all the, all the hurdles out of the way. And let's just build a show and kind of a shell. What happens within that shell? This guy, Jason Cates, who's our, our main guy, is going to lead us. He's going to come in with all the authenticity and intention of finding love. And then let's let him lead the way. And then let's bring in these amazing women. And let's let them tell us what they need. And so really it's, it was a scary way to produce a show. But we allowed him to kind of dictate on the daily of what do you need? How's it going? Uh, are you not sure about Abby? You need some time? Okay. Then you know what? We're going to give you time. Uh, you just want to like test some of the, you know, let's have a group to, okay. Like so, yes, there are, are, are dates that we set up to, to help him along the way. But the, the trinkets and the moments that's like, okay, it's 10 o'clock. Stop. Let's kick somebody off the show. No. It's, you know, when you feel like it's time for somebody to leave, that's when it will happen. And we don't know. So this ride you're on is a wild one because you don't know when it's going to begin or end for somebody. You don't know. And so it's, uh, it's a, it's a very raw emotional real ride in it. I, I, I always say, you know, Lauren has covered reality TV at entertainment tonight for so long. Of course, I was a part of it. Louis, our other executive producer was on the bachelor for many years. So he feels it. And so like, when we were stopped in our tracks and couldn't take our eyes off the screen, that's when I was like, okay, this is good. This is really good. I do want to press a bit on faith doesn't make you date differently, um, with Matt bringing up like fantasy sweets being a big part of bachelor in the bachelor show and franchise, you're saying this isn't a component or is that a part of the structure of this new show of the vow? And if so, how would they balance that with the faith angle or that push and pull? Well, first of all, just, so here's the thing, faith is, you know, one of the cornerstones of the vow and this person, Jason, you know, is a very faith driven man. And, you know, his, he's one of those guys that like, Hey, I've worked so hard in my life. And we also, uh, Lindsay and the casting agency did such a great job of, we cast the show a little bit older. Um, you know, we want people at a stage in their life where they are, you know, their brains have formed. The frontal lobe is there and they know what they want in life and they're ready for that. You need to commit, um, and, but to your point, faith does drive him in his dating. And, and so, you know, when I say it doesn't change the way you date, it changes his decisions. And it, it forms his opinions and decisions. But as producers, we didn't say because of faith, we're going to do this if that makes sense. The dog was wagging the tail as opposed to vice versa. We let him and his faith decide which way he wanted to go. I'm not saying this did or didn't happen. But if, if he came to us and said, you know what? I could use just a night to spend the night with this person. Could we make that happen? That's what we would make happen. That's the kind of show we created where we just got rid of the guardrails and whatever happens happens. So you're not releasing it at all, like you're not, you're not saying, Hey, since this is a faith show, we're going to like, you know, take on this, this pretty, pretty widely accepted belief that, you know, you wait till marriage, it wasn't like we're going to enforce that. It was just, you can. You just hit on something I love. That's exactly why we didn't do it. Okay. So what I love about this show is there is, and this is why I'm so excited for people to watch it. I think there's going to be this idea that, you know, all, all faith driven people are the same. Okay. And believe the same. They don't. They're not, right? So they're, you know, even within this spectrum, there's a lot of debate that goes on on the show of, well, that you're not really strong in your faith. We'll wait. - It's interesting. - Right, 'cause it means something different. I guarantee there's five, what, six people sitting in this room. Well, yeah, that's good math, six. (laughing) You know, if we asked each of us, what does that mean to you? Do you believe in saving yourself from marriage? Have you saved yourself from marriage? Like, we would all have different answers and how you would date and do, when should I kiss it? All these things are different and that's what I found intriguing. That's the reality of this is like, let's dive into this. Let's shine a big bright light on it and explore this. Again, good shows aren't telling you. They're asking and they're just exploring this niche and that's what the vow is all about. It's really fun. That's why it's important to be very intentional and very authentic and to let this happen and not just go, okay guys, it's episode five. This is what we're gonna do this, regardless of what's going on. - Did any of the female contestants want to wait to kiss till marriage? - I will give one spoiler. There is, there are people who have saved themselves for marriage. - Okay. - And that's something we have to discuss. - Okay. - And that's something, but that's on them to discuss that and when, when is the proper time to ever, or do you ever have that discussion? 'Cause you know, you don't wanna put that on the table and so that, again, that's on them and then there's some that haven't. And so, and they're like, well, I'm not, I'm not prudent. And so, again, that's a discussion I relish everybody getting to watch on TV. So I think everyone, you know, will be able and, but I also, I do wanna back up a little bit and I wanna say one of my intentions and our intentions, the team behind the vow is we want everyone to be able to watch this. - Okay. - I want everyone and I mean a family to be able to watch this together and not be like, oh boy, we gotta pause and take the kids out of the room. I do want, I wanna have these conversations that push the envelope. I want you to see that, but I wanna do it in the right way where I can watch with my daughter. Personally, I can watch it with my daughter and I can be proud of it and I can enjoy that. And I can maybe stop and be like, hey, let's talk about this. And so, you know, one of the things that, that when we were in the prime, when people come out to me and say, you know, the best thing that ever happened is I got to talk to my mom on Monday nights or Tuesday mornings after the show or I got to really connect with my daughter. I want that back. And I think people are yearning for that. I think there's a hunger for that. Of people want real love. People wanna watch this again. You know, people wanna see it done right. And I wanna say the vow, we're doing it right and intentional and authentic and real love and it's raw and honest, but we can all watch it together and we can all rally around it together and we can all be voyeuristic and judgmental together. Like, you know, the great things that I think I will hopefully deliver with this show. - A big conversation that's happening nowadays and I think it's very relevant to the conversation that you guys are seeming to have around the vow is this idea of a traditional marriage. And I'm wondering like how you guide, his name is Jason. - Yeah, Jason. That's through like, through his aspirations for a marriage that reflects like that and what your takes are on that of a traditional marriage nowadays. We've been bringing that up a lot online and everything. - Well, I think, you know, what I wanted, or I guess what we wanted to impress is in our production of the vow was, let's just let them tell us what they feel. Let's let that debate happen on the show. Again, I'm a big believer, don't tell, ask. And, you know, I do that in my hosting and I do that in producing as well, is there is this wide spectrum of what that means to people. What faith means to people, what traditional marriage. And what is it in this modern world? Again, I go back to, you know, people coming up to us at the airport going, man, it's brutal out there dating and I'm on the apps and it's tough and it's this and I got catfished and, you know, what's real, what's not. And so what I wanted to do was bring some, you know, people of faith in here who have been struggling to find somebody and to find something real. It's like, and I'm not even promising, you can find it. That's the question, right? Can you still find love in this modern world? Can you find love this way? Because this world is hard now. And, you know, with interest rate high and it's hard to find a job, it's hard to buy a house, it's hard. You know, all these things that they're dealing with on top of trying to find something real, that's what it's all about. And it's like, and we all come about this differently. It's like, I don't know, do you want to stay at home? Do you want to be at state-home, mom? Or do you want to be CEO of the world? And where do we all fit in that? And what does that mean to you? And it's like, well, my faith means this. Well, my faith and my idea is this. And so does that clash? And so that's, but that's, that those are the conversations I want them to have as opposed to kind of this superficial relationship and then it's over and it's like, okay, good luck guys. I hope it works when you hit the real world. I hope the vow gives them the building blocks to really find love. So when you get to the end, if it works, it works. And, you know, the question is, can you find love this way in this modern world? And we're gonna find out. - What's your take on Warner Brothers sending Fox cease and desist for the vow? I just saw that and I was floored. - I think Fox Nation had an amazing reply to that. And I think that, you know, desperate times, I guess, call for desperate measures. And they, I think, are in a desperate spot right now and really, I guess, are hoping to stop what we're doing. Is it gonna work? - Absolutely not, absolutely not. 'Cause, you know why? - Because podcast is out. - It means it's working. - If you guys are watching this podcast, I guess the vow's out. - Well, you know why? 'Cause love conquers all. - Wow, that's good. That's like, you gotta quote that. - Love conquers all. - I don't think you came up with that one. Maybe that's, that's biblical. - You know what, nobody has a copy right on? - What? - Love and finding love and doing it the right way. - And we're doing it the right way. - Is Warner Brothers saying it's the rose petals and the teaser? - I don't know, the funny thing is it was, it honestly had nothing to do with me. You know, obviously I'm the face. They plaster my face everywhere. But it really, the whole thing was to Fox Nation and Lionsgate and they had a brilliant. I just, I highly recommend like, please go read the reply from Fox Nation. But, you know, the, I think it's a testament to us hitting a nerve, us doing it the right way and people across the street being worried and scared. - I mean, only time will tell, but my, I feel like that was the wrong move on Warner Brothers to send that because it only created more publicity for the show. Like, they're literally hurting themselves by doing that. - I mean, I think people are excited to watch the vow. I think they're anxious. - I think people are excited to see you back. I think that's what it is. I think. - Well, I would be worried about it as well if I were them. Ooh, that's good. - I would be very worried. I wouldn't want me creating the most authentic, real, honest dating show ever. That would really suck. I would hate that if I were them. - You might even send a cease and desist if you were them. - Yeah. I bet they're thinking, man, maybe we messed up. Are there any changes as far as the production of the show that have been made? Because I think, you know, we've gotten the opportunity to sit down with a lot of different people that have been on reality TV shows. And we've learned that sometimes there's really tough conditions. I mean, even you yourself have mentioned that in the past on the Bachelor, you were sleeping in a closet. - Yeah. - In the mansion. So talk to me about the process. - Self-imposed, by the way, just 'cause I was tired. I could easily sit on a couch in the control room. I was just tired and lazy, so I slept in a closet. That was on me. They never locked me in a closet. - Okay. - But no, I did. There was a, you know, there was like a master closet and I was like, oh good, no one will come in here. I'm just gonna take a little, oh my god. No, you know, but, you know, what's, this has been very important to my wife and I to Lionsgate to Fox Nation. I think it's really important that you build a foundation. If you're building a company, anything. And you have good leadership. And you do it right from the start. And we've done that with the vow. I am really proud of the product we put out in that we created. You know, the show is in the can. We've already shot the show. And so I think the environment with which we created as producers was very loving and wonderful. We had a great relationship with the cast. We've heard from all of them afterwards thinking us and so grateful that they had this opportunity that we created a show like the vow that is speaking and allowing people to have these conversations on camera that the kind of conversation is truly that people have never had before. Just really honest groundbreaking conversations. And it's like, wow, this seems so simple. How has it not been done? And why is it even remotely edgy or daring to do a show like this? And so it is, It feels good to be behind a show that's doing it the way we're doing it, to be part of a team that's doing it right. Something I find fascinating about reality TV is, at the end of the day, there's going to be a villain. Someone's going to get the villain edit, it makes for good TV. And I can only imagine like thinking about this show, I just think about one of the girls saying, "Hey, I'm going to wait till marriage," and then potentially on the show, not waiting until marriage, getting a lot of nasty DMs, tweets, whatever, I can just see so many different ways where things can go wrong and who knows how things will go wrong, but it's going to make it into the show in some way or another because it makes for good TV. And so I guess my question is, what are the resources available for contestants if they're getting hate, if they're getting trolled online, and they've never experienced it before, some guessing they're probably scared, depressed, potentially even in suicidal. So I guess, are there any resources available for the contestants to help in case of a mental health crisis? Well, first of all, yes, I mean, I will get to that, let me back into that, and go back to the original question. You know, I think if you build, if you produce the show correctly, and you create the environment for real honest conversations, and if you set the bar and you raise the stakes, and that's what the vow does, the stakes are real and the stakes are high. So the emotion and the drama you get is real and honest, and I'm trying to skirt this thing to where I don't give anything away because I don't want to like divulge any like spoilers away. But what I guess what I'm trying to say is, the drama is so honest in the tears and all that stuff that you get is heartfelt. And so I feel like you don't have the malice or the animosity that you're talking about, that you may derive from other situations. I don't know if this is making sense. So no one gets the villain at it? Well, and that's what I'm trying to say is, is, you know, I can't speak for that because you never know. You know, like one thing I will honestly say after 20 years of being on another reality show, you really never know what's going to strike a chord. It's really interesting. Like I'll be honest, going back to one of the most iconic scenes ever, The Fence Jump, The Colton Fence Jump, I'll be honest. When that happened that night, we didn't stop and think this is going to be one of the most iconic things ever. We really didn't. It was like late at night, it was four in the morning or whatever and this guy jumps a fence and it was emotional night and we were more worried about Colton and all this stuff. And so, and then that became like the thing, like it was such a thing. And so again, you just don't know and that's on a much lighter note. And so to your point, if something were to happen, yes, there are always resources you have to. Like, are there actual rules like laws around reality television at this point that require a lot of things? I don't know, there's laws. I think you just have to be, as a human being, you know, we have a, this is where it's great. You have to have great partners, Fox Nation, Lionsgate, you're not on your own, you have, you have a team of people that you bring in and yes, if anybody and that's, and you have to have a good relationship with your cast and again, all these lessons that we've learned over the years on how to stay in tune and it's like being a good parent. You got to have that open line of communication and so you can be there for them. So is it, so between Fox Nation, Lionsgate, your production company, whose responsibility is it to provide mental health resources or I guess who, is that a thing? I don't know, I'm just. It would be all of it. It would be all of us. Yeah, it would be, you know, everybody would be, you know, the communication would probably, you know, start with producers and then you immediately take it to the powers it be that have the resources to, you know, you know, pull the people in that you need and all that. And so, you know, you do, you have to just keep that line of communication open. Okay. If what you're saying is true about the vow and you guys are truly finding, what do you mean if what I say? I haven't seen you at Christmas, haven't seen you yet. You guys saw episode one, hey, we didn't see anyone get married yet. We haven't seen. We haven't seen the finale. We've only seen one episode out. One episode. Ten. That was very skeptical. And no, what I'm, what I'm wondering is, I'm imagining a lot of people are going to want to be a part of this. Future seasons. Right. What would make those people? Can we knock on wood? Where's the future seasons? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, what would make someone like favorable to your casting? What are you looking for? And how do you even vet for this faith aspect? Great question. I think, man, I hate to put the cart before the horse because season one hasn't aired yet. But I do. I think this is, I feel this is going to be successful. It's never promised anybody. If I, again, if I've learned anything in this game, you think you know and you don't. So you just hope you, you, I am, you know, at the will of the viewer. And I, I think the timing is right, I think the hunger and the anticipation is there and I, I think this will be successful and I hope we do future seasons. I think we will. And with that said, you know, the casting for season one may have been the easiest because of the innocence and naivete and people don't know. And so we were really able to, you know, people didn't even know if it was me, you know, my show and all this. And so, you know, you're easily able to make sure these people are here for the right reasons, so to speak. So yeah, that will get harder and it gets tougher. But, you know, the vow will never be predicated on the fact that we guarantee it works. And I won't even be predicated on the fact that I guarantee this person is not pulling the wool over your eyes, you know, and that's, that's part of the real world and dating is if I go to a church, a library, a bar and I meet this young man, young woman, I have to decide, is she using me? She hear from my looks, my money, my, whatever, you know, did you see me drive up in my, you know, Corvette? I don't have a Corvette. I just went John Hughes or something, I don't know my red 9/11. I'm a truck guy. I live in Texas. I'm a truck guy. Oh, nice, nice. Yeah, I got my RAM truck. But it's, that's always part of the realness of this show. And I think the vow takes to a step further is, where are you and your faith journey and is it the same as mine and is it real? Does it, do you use that? You know, is it, is it something that you've been raised? You know, there's all these, these different, you know, I, like my own faith journey, y'all's faith journey is like, we all come about it in different ways and where you are. And so I think all these conversations and these, these things are, are so, if you produce a show correctly, they're all part of the stew that we all get to watch that I think are compelling, instead of again, trying to set up the guardrails of like, no, no, yes, you're, you know, you're in. But I think if you cast the show correctly and you trust your casting agency, they do a phenomenal job of really setting that bar high and you, you know, this season, I just think people are going to meet these women and Jace, but just, you know, these women are just like so fantastic and there's stories, you know, apart from the dating side of things, just like, I just want to hear their stories and hear more about them because they're so dynamic and they bring so much to the table. Would it ever make sense for the vow to focus on a religion that isn't Christianity? Maybe it's people that are Jewish or people that are LDS. Don't take away our ideas. I don't know. I'm just curious. Oh, I was curious to see a Mormon version going into, but going into like seeing the episode, I was curious, okay, are there going to be people of different faith backgrounds? And that could be a conversation of people that are not of the same faith, saying, oh, I can't marry you because we have different beliefs. I, so I had no idea what to see going in. Okay. I don't want to give away spoilers, but I think it's, I think we can, I think it's kind of like common knowledge that it's a Christian show. I'll say this without giving anything away. It is not set that everybody is of the same faith. Oh, okay. But it is based on faith in your heart, faith driven, and what that means to you and what you're bringing to the table is up to you. So probably like episode five, then there's going to be a twist where someone's like, I'm actually a Latter-day saint and every, and that's like, oh my gosh, stop. Okay. So it's basically just anyone that considers themselves a person of faith, whatever that means. That is, that is the umbrella that they're fitting under to go on the vow. Okay. That is, okay. So that makes it more interesting. I like that. I do like that. It's, in look, and how, you know, what we end up with for what rhyme or reason that we will see. And the conversation is, what does that mean? Right. And, you know, what does that look like? That is, that is what I want the vow to like spark is those, those, that debate, those conversations. And, but at the same time, try to help people find love in this modern world, which is an increasingly difficult thing to do. And more and more people are like, help me, help me. And so we're like, you know, again, I'm such a big timing guy. I just like, my fire got lit. I got so excited to get back. This idea, we all formed, and then. Fox Nation came into this and had a great home for us. And I think the world was ready where there's this generation going, man, it is tougher than ever. We got, you know, we need help. And I'm like, you know what? I can be the guy, you know, it's what I do. No one's been more equipped to do this. Let's go. - Well, let me say after watching the first episode, I do think this will spark conversation. - Good, for sure. - In a good way. - I, there will be conversation, Chris. - Oh, yeah. (laughs) - In a good way, yes. - Did you see the way when she said that? She put her hands on her hips like I was one of her kids. - I'm saying, I do anticipate there will be a lot of conversation, there'll be good, and there'll be pushback, I'm sure. Because like you said, you're addressing a lot of big conversations that have a lot of nuance and weight and are deeply personal to people, so. - That's a good thing. I think a show that makes you think is not so bad. - That's exactly what it seems like you're wanting to achieve for this show. - I do really like that, 'cause in a world where I think everyone wants to place other people in a camp, it's like, sometimes it seems as if people just wanna know if you're, are you religious, what's your political affiliation, and then based off that, they're gonna put you in one of two camps. And I love having conversation and talking about the uncomfortable things, because I think people realize we're all so much more like than we are different. And we need something to unify us, bring us together. - Yeah. - I have some rapid fire questions to end the episode, Chris. But Abby, if you have any more questions, - We're playing for a million dollars. - Let's do the game, okay. - Let's go. - Agree or disagree, chemistry is more important than compatibility. - They kinda go together, that's really in the middle. I'm gonna say middle. - You can't. - Chemistry, compatibility. - Like, okay, let's see, someone has, you know what, I'm gonna say compatibility. - I'm gonna say compatibility. - Okay. - I think at the end of the day, after the chemistry, initial chemistry, I think compatibility matters. That seals the deal. - 'Cause what I'm thinking of, if someone has great chemistry, but they have come from-- - I'm gonna look at my wife as I answer these. Compatibility. - They have completely different views on the world or how to raise kids, or if they want kids. - Can I phone a friend? - Wait, I do have a question really quickly about this. You call her LZ, 'cause your last name starts with is-- - Zima. - So you guys, you don't, you're not Harrison now. - No, she's, so she had been on air and had her public persona for so long. And Emmy award winning, you know, journalists, Lauren Zima. And so she, you know, so we wanna, you know. - My last name was. - And by the way, yeah, Zima is such a good name. It was such a good drink in the 80s and 90s. We don't want-- - I didn't know the drink. - Zima. Are you in the mood for something different? Zima. - I'm 27. - I don't know that. - Is that, is that the commercial? - Yes. - Did you know she knew that. That was their tagline, are you in the mood for something different? Zima. No, LZ, so yeah, I call her LZ. - Was that a conversation? - No, not really. I mean, I guess, yeah, I mean, eventually, I guess it was, we kinda probably decided, but it made, it was never a point of contention, 'cause it made no sense to like, in this stage of the game, professionally, for her to change her name. Just like it would be silly at this point, in my life to change my name. - That would've made headlines, so you could've been-- - You could've been Chris Zima. - That sounds cool. - But do you, so I thought the alliteration, I thought the alliteration was tough. It's to go from S to Z is tough. Chris Zima, it almost sounds like you're ordering something, you're sneezing, like, Chris Zima, like, God bless you. - Kazunday. - Yeah, so neither one, her name's too cool. Mine became less cool, so we're like, you know, let's keep it as easy. - Yeah, I feel like it really complicates itself if this is children. - And I love just saying LZ. - Yeah. - Which is what I call her. - I like that. - 90% of the time. - Have you guys had the same last night? - Yeah, we've only moved only-- - Probably since high school. - Yeah, basically. - Oh, we got married when we were 20 and 20. - I practice that signature in high school, so I was like, no, it's already locked in. - Agree or disagree, you can genuinely fall in love on a reality dating show. - 100%, 100%. - But nobody works out though. - I had dinner with Ari and Lauren last night. Sean and Catherine are actually making an appearance on the vow. Is it hard? - Yeah, but it's hard to find love. It's hard to find love in the real world. And I think that's, you know, if you don't believe that, then what are we doing? - Can I tell you my theory on Ari and Lauren, why they worked out? - Please. - Can we tell them this theory? - I think I'm gonna find out about this theory. - Basically, because it was them against the world, because they rewrote the script and got together after his big fallout with the original person that he chose, I think that kind of forced their hand. And it almost felt like they weren't playing by the rules of the show anymore. It was almost like they rewrote the rules. - You're not wrong, but it all happened before. 'Cause I remember him sitting in my office in my house. He came to my house and off camera, we were just talking. And because he'd asked me and I said, "Well, this has happened once before." And that guy, Jason Mesnick, got crushed. I said, "Let me tell you what's about to happen to you if you go this route." And you break up with this person and you call Lauren and you do that. So I laid it all out for him. I said, "This just buyer beware." And he's like, "So you're right." But he went into that intentionally and was like, "I will face all the bullets for this woman." And I will go through hell and back for this woman. - That's cool. - Okay, well then that means you are ready for this. And this is the woman for you. So you're not wrong, but also you're right. - But the most dramatic season yet. - Yes. - But the previous guy didn't work out. - Who? - The guy you just mentioned who-- - Mesnick? - Yeah. - He did? - Oh, it worked out. - Yeah, it was with Molly. - Okay. - Yeah, he did work. He was the same thing. He did the switcheroo. - Yeah. - And they're still together. - Yeah, but they live up in the Pacific Northwest. And yeah. - So basically the cheat code to having it work out is make everyone hate you. - Always go back to number two. - No, it's through conflict together. - But I do think that, you know, I saw a producer say recently, and they were on a love show and like that this doesn't exist and you can't do it. And I'm like, man, I was like, what are we doing? Like why? And I'm like, if you come on the vow, and you, you know, if we're producing the show and you don't believe in love, like why? Why are we wasting our time? Like, I believe in love more than anybody. You know, it happened to me in my life. She's sitting right there. Like it happens in the most unconventional crazy ways. I never expected Lauren Zima to walk into my life post to interview and us to fall in love on the lot after we were doing one of our wrap up shows. You know, it's like, who knows how and when it happens. So yeah, no, I totally believe if you can really take your hand off the wheel and give yourself. And that's what I had to tell Jay, it's like, you know, if you really believe in it and you really want this, doesn't guarantee it's gonna work, but I guarantee you, you're gonna give yourself the best opportunity and the vow does that. - Agree or disagree, you shouldn't live together before getting married. - I'll be honest, I disagree. I'm fine with it. And again, go back to the faith debate. Some people'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So that's the debate you have to have. Lauren and I had to have that debate as well. We had to talk amongst ourselves and, you know, it has to be right for you and your family, your faith, all those things. But in my camp where I stand, I would like to live, you know, with some, you know, does she put the seat down? You know? - Well, why would she be leaving it up? - Does she, does she, what is she? - Which way does she put the seat down? - What I meant to say, do I put the seat down? - Yeah, that's what I thought. - I was joking. I was joking. Well, I wanted to see if you guys are still paying attention. You're being a sharp, you're sharp. - Abby Sharp is following me. - Follow me on the changes. - I know he's ADD. I want to make sure you're with me. - I'm not. - She's a one-month-old baby. - Yeah, she's like, I got, I got one baby, baby brain. - And I think Chris has a different coming, - So do you want to ask one more? - Okay, let's do one more. - Okay. - While we did not do all these, staying at it. - It's been a really good conversation. - This is the final question, choose wisely. - Dating apps have made finding lasting love harder. - True, true. And that's why more than ever we need the vow. I think things that have supposedly made life easier for us have made connections harder. And I think connections have gotten maybe easier, but they've also gotten shallower. And the vow is intentional about making it more authentic and real and deeper. That's a great one to end on. That's fantastic. - Landed that plan. - Watch the vow, Fox Nation, November 11th. - Well Chris, thank you so much for coming on the show. - Thank you guys so much. God bless you guys, your beautiful family. Thanks for having us in your house. - Really appreciate it. Y'all are doing, you do great work. I love it. - Thank you so much. - Thank you. - I appreciate it. - That means a lot coming from you. - The biggest judge right over there, I'm telling you. Judge Judy over there in the corner, man. You know, when they go to the Mizzou J school, they're tough. They're tough. - Absolutely. - Awesome. Well, you guys, thanks for tuning in for another episode. We'll see you next week. And yeah, thanks again to Chris. - Thank you guys. - This is awesome.