Chris Appleton on Overcoming His Darkest Moment, Healing Shame & Finding Real Confidence

The following podcast is a deer media production. Welcome to RealPod. It's your host, Victoria Garrick Brown, and this is the podcast where we hold nothing back. Oh, so we're getting deep, huh? I've really cried for 12 days straight. Why do I want to be perfect? There's nothing in my life that is perfect. Every week, I'll bring you honest, unfiltered, and eye-opening conversations to help uncover the real in all of us. I crave the type of content that you're talking about. I actually felt insecure. Oh, my God, am I going to cry? Let me just unload everything. New episodes every Wednesday leave those filters at the door, because it's time to get real. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to RealPod. I'm so excited because today we have one of the most talented people. In Hollywood, dare I say, in our midst, and it's celebrity hairstylist, Chris Appleton. He does the luscious locks of some of our favorite and most famous celebrities, like Ariana Grande, Jennifer Lopez, Kim Kardashian, Chris Jenner, Dua Lipa. He actually just did J-Lo for the Golden Globe, so he stays booked and busy. Chris' book, Your Brutes Don't Define You, just came out this month. Definitely check it out. Get it wherever you get your favorite books. In this book, Chris opens up about hitting his breaking point, born from decades of shame, fear, and the belief that being true to himself would hurt the people he loved the most. And that is a lot of what we're going to talk about today, because I was so moved by just Chris' vulnerability to share his story in coming to terms with his sexuality. He has two children. He was previously in a relationship with a woman for many years. And it wasn't until later in his life where he really came to terms with and accepted the fact that he was a gay man and then was able to see so much success unfold in his career because he was living in alignment with who he truly is. On today's episode, Chris is going to share the four simple questions you can ask yourself to reset your life when you feel stuck. I loved these. I will be adding them into my decluttered Hermione section of Booked and Balanced and answering them as a reflection to keep setting the tone for my ear. Chris also shares how to flip envy into admiration and use it as actually a clue. I loved this reframe. It was super powerful. He gives a great example. Chris also opens up about his darkest moment, how he went from nearly giving up to learning how to truly thrive. And then at the very end, stay tuned. We asked some fun and juicy celebrity questions, including the question everyone's asking, middle part or side part. Chris is going to give us his tape. So stay tuned for the end and don't miss that. Without further ado, let's dive into this episode with author of your Roots Don't Define You and celebrity hair stylist Chris Appleton. Chris, welcome to RealPod. I'm so happy to have you. I've been a long time follower of your work. So to have this opportunity is really exciting. Oh, yeah. I'm happy to be here. How have you been? How's the start to your year? Great. It's been a really good year. I think last year was pretty jump high. And so this year I've been taking it all in. I just had a really nice time with my family, Christmas, which was, it was a bamboo. Yeah. Always a bamboo. Nothing like going home and thinking you've done so much work on yourself and then being really triggered. Yeah. Not fully. It's a real test of finishes. Now I love Christmas. It was a really special Christmas. I just think you're healed until you spend like three days with your family and resort back. Totally. And then one person says something to you and you're 12 years old again. I know. It's like the emotional patterning, but your roots don't define you as out now, which is so exciting because I feel like so many people have been like me. Fans of your insane career is one of the most sought after stylists. But now we're getting to learn so much more about you in this deeper way. How does that make you feel like do you feel exposed? I, I, it makes you feel more vulnerable for sure. I mean, if you post in a picture of your show off, it's whatever. Like, you're not, you know, it's not too deep when you're talking about secrets that you thought you would never tell to anyone that alone put into a book, you know, even when I was doing audio to the book, I read into a microphone knowing that that is being recorded and that's going to be available to be listened to by many people. There's a vulnerability to it. And I remember as I was reading it, I was like, God, once this was such a dark secret that I swore, normal, whatever not about because there was so much shame around so many things that I speak about the book, but I think in part of healing and in part of doing the book, it was a healing process to put that all down in one place. And like, no, that like, okay, your roots don't define you. The idea of the roots don't define you is obviously a nod towards her, but also so many people that sat in my chair, I realized were defined by their past. So they were defined by something once someone said to them and they've carried at them the whole lives, usually around the way they look. So like, oh, you know, you only suit blonde or you look best with bangs or, you know, you're the quiet one. You're just the confident one. Just these small things that we carry around, which are pretty huge in fact and we don't realize we're actually wearing them, but I realized it was much deeper than appearance. And that's why I wrote the book because I think in all the years I've done what I've done since the age of 13, I think I've mastered the art of looking good. That's one thing. But it really comes from feeling good and it's a very internal thing and it's really about alignment. I had plenty of time in my life where I've looked good on the outside, probably looked like life was great, but on the inside I was miserable. We look in the mirror maybe 10 or 12 times a day, but we don't actually really look. We just glance, you know, we just see that face staring back, brushing our teeth. You're not really looking and saying to yourself, is this outside image that I have aligned with? How I feel on the inside. We don't really go that deep when we're looking. I think when you sit in the stylist chair and you are looking in the mirror, it's a time where you're kind of like, you know, oh my god, it's a bit of heavy in the, you know, or like usually like I say, the hate of the negative voice, which is pretty loud. This starts to tell you down and these old beliefs that we've carried the whole lives start to define who you were. And I noticed that when people sat in my chair, you know, really we've been out the best in people. And to face some of these like challenges people had, some of these blocks and it got quite deep. And you know, they say your stylist is a therapist, I think there's some truth to it. And I'm sure you've seen this, but someone could look perfect to have the best glam, the best hair and be getting in the limo with tears in their eyes because of something that happened. Like, you know, so you can only do so much externally before you have to do the internal one. But you don't get in limo anymore. Oh yeah, the Uber. That's so pretty. Uber black. And like, you know, I always knew that like I could do someone's hair, everyone could love it in the room with that person. Doesn't feel great in it. They'll just wear that on the on the red carpet. You'll see that I've stand up as tall, they just don't look as confident when someone really feels themselves internally, like that really kind of glows and radiates on the outside. So a lot of the book is about finding an alignment, but it's, it's really about a lot of people say to me, well, I don't look like JLo, I don't like Kim, I don't look like I ran up, but it's not that difficult when you break it down to actually look and feel you're absolutely best and have that inner confidence. And that's something I've offered to everyone I've worked with, but obviously I don't get to have everyone sit in my chair. So this book is a way for people to sit in my chair, I know what that feels like. And it's an emotional book, it's also a funny book. There's lots of like stories about celebrity and some of the behind the scenes, craziness of my life. And it's very honest. Something I loved from just the first pages was Chris Jenner wrote your four word. Yeah. How cool. Insane. And she writes, when Chris does your hair, it's not just an appointment. It's an experience. It's laughter. It's truth. It's realignment. And I loved that so much because it reminded me of the concept of, you might not remember what someone said, but you remember how they made you feel. Yeah. And I think there are people who might think, oh, it's, it's a hair style. Like how deep does it go, but it does go deep and you can bring meaning and purpose to everything you do, no matter what your job is. So does that come naturally to you to, to bring that meaning and purpose into your work? When I was a kid, I told this story many times, but it really is something that started my career when I used to do my mom's hair at nine years old. I wasn't really good at much. I was dyslexic at school, so I was told I was stupid. It wasn't really understood there. No one knew what dyslexia was. People just thought you were lazy, stupid, you know, and you got put in a special needs class. So when I did hair, it was the first thing I actually felt about that. I did my mom's hair. I tried to make it look like a Hollywood star far from that life is what she had. You know, she was a mother of five kids. And life was pretty tough. Her parents, she lost her parents when she was like 10, they got murdered and she had a pretty rough sort of upbringing. And so glamour was something that was very far away from what she'd ever had. So I used to do hair. I wanted to try and make a look like a Hollywood star. I was always mesmerized by like Hollywood and the sparkles of the, like the things that are on TV or in magazines. And I realized that when she stood up and looked in their mirror, she was, was reactive to that. She'd stand a bit tore a posture, a change or energy change. And I was like, wow, you get to make people really feel and I love that. I felt like a superpower. Still get to do that today. This episode is brought to you by Premiere Protein and I love Premiere Protein so much. I feel like I don't go a day anymore without having a protein drink because it is just so hard to ensure that we're getting enough protein and the amount that we need every single day. And sometimes I'm super busy, I just like can't think about it. about that in every single meal. And I don't like to hyperfixate on it, right? So that's my premier protein is the solution. It's easy and delicious and a protein-packed way to power your day. There's so many incredible flavors. I like to keep mine in the fridge 'cause I always like my protein drinks cold. They have so many delicious flavors. I love the chocolate and the coffee flavor. And the coffee flavor even has caffeine. 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I mean, in a working sense, that was really good, making people look and feel good. And my past all life, not so much, but I had to kind of differentiate those two as I got older, with experience, making mistakes. And that's kind of where I'm at now. You know, you kind of come full circle. And it's not about deleting your roots. It's not about raising your past, which I think for a long time, I did. I think I had a lot of shame and I felt a lot of fear around truly sort of acknowledging who I was. It's actually just about embracing them all and knowing it's all one thing. Yeah. You know, you're one whole. I think a lot of people try and sort of disassociate or just pretend things didn't happen or avoidant about the past. I'm proud of my journey. I'm proud of where I'm at. I'm proud of what I did with the tools I had. And no one has it easy. No one gets given like a perfect childhood, as much as we like to think we have. Like there's all things we inherit, which hold us back, whether it's in a relationship, the job you choose, your financial decision. I think it's important to evolve. Like I think it's important to do different things. Like I was just with JLo for the bottom globes. And it's so good. You know, like I still know to make her feel great. Yeah. You know, we talked about her style. It came to play. We worked together. We create this kind of sculpted shape and see if she felt so good. I remember as she laughed. I was like, oh, it still feels so good when someone leaves feeling good about themselves. Yeah. Because there's all these times, you know, like things for whatever reason don't go to plan. Like last minute dress changed the head. You know, you're changing things. So it's always like, it can be quite nerve wrecking me. I always get very nervous when I do a recovery. I always feel quite vulnerable. Cause HD camera is a kind of me for sports. They're not necessarily made for faces. You know, you see every, you do. I know. Why do they keep going up in quality? Yeah. Oh my God. You can see. Yeah. Like it's insane. You see, I see things on a HD camera. I don't see my look in the mirror. Right. I'm like, is that, do I look like that? It's like not loud. It's like my why I close. It gives me a lot of like empathy though for when people do get into Hollywood and then they start to tweak their face and they do all this stuff. And the viewers are like, why are you doing that? You're perfect. But like if every day. HD cameras make you want to, you know, like someone takes a HD picture of yourself when you just, it's a different as well. Because like, you know what I mean? You're glad it's in the mirror and you see yourself. But this is like a frozen image. But I think again, part of like what the book is about is like working with these amazing women and how they cope with criticism, how they cope with highs and lows. And we all have this just cruel to life. And they love that you were talking about how we should be evolving. And you talk about that in the book that people were trying to put you in a box. And you didn't want to put a box. And first I just want to say, I am so grateful that you're sharing your story in such an open way about really coming to terms and accepting your own sexuality. Because nothing like breaks my heart more than someone just not living life as who they are and living true to themselves. - Yeah. - And you were in a very long term relationship with a partner who you had two children with. And it was during that relationship that you realized that you actually wanted to be with men. - Yeah. - What was it like during the time where you realized the life I'm living is actually not an alignment with who I know myself to be inside? - It's a bigger thing. So I spoke about this on a J-Shirtney podcast and a lot of people were like, oh my God, he always knew he ruined her life, blah, blah, blah. - Okay, who said that? I never saw any of that. - When something goes viral, there's gonna be a mixture of comments. I'm okay with conversation, it's fine. I think I'm okay with it now because I know who I am. It may be 10 years ago, I wouldn't have been. I would have probably found that really difficult to listen to. Realistically, it stems from this. At the age of 13, I got a job in the hair salon. So I found something that I enjoyed doing, which was hair, that it was creative. I was good at it. So I was like, I'm gonna be the best of this 'cause it's the only thing I ever felt good at. 'Cause like I said, academically, I wasn't raised at all. It was like, you're stupid. So I got a job in the salon. I was very eager to do well. So when the kids at school knew I did hair, well, back then, no one did hair as a guy. And if you did, you were gay. So it was like, oh, you're gay. And it wasn't set in a nice way. So I was really, really bothered. Like, you know, relentlessly, like, spat on, like, beaten up. Like, we would call the police. It was all, it never, it was really rough. You know, people would jump me out and school, I hadn't done anything. I just, and I wasn't gay. I had a girlfriend at the time. But I was, before I'd even sort of got into sexuality, or discovering necessarily like your tastes either, but when someone says to you, you're this, you're like, no, I'm not. You know, I didn't want to be different. I didn't want to be stupid, and I didn't want to be gay. I think your brain is very powerful. And if someone says, don't put your hand in a fire, it's going to burn, like, you just don't do it. I just kind of blocked that out. So we never even explored it. So I really explored being the best. I was like, I'm going to show everyone that I'm like, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to do good. I'm going to be good at what I do. And I, you know, I'm not gay, I like girls. And I did, I always had girlfriend. And I thought I was good. I met Kate at 19, we had two kids. And at the age of like 26, 27, a relationship kind of broke down. Although we were still very close, we had separated. It was that awkward kind of stage where you're separating but obviously you have kids. It was just difficult and complex. My career had evolved. I was traveling a lot more. I was going to wear a lot, drinking more. And you know, when you kind of go for a break up and then you're, you kind of do things you don't normally do. You know, you're a, you know, the revenge haircut. You know, you just want to, you know, change. And I remember one time, this guy tried to kiss me. I was in the evening after a long night of drinking in Barcelona. I remember going by to my room, my hotel room. And I was like, brushing my teeth. I was like, brushing my tongue. I was like, oh, that felt like wrong. Like her, 'cause I remember as a kid being told gay was wrong. You know, there wasn't really anyone that I had a wrong model of that. And I was told at a young age that gay guys got HIV. And a lot of people are like, oh, that's not fair. We've come a long way in the last 10 years. And I'm 42, I was probably where I found that out. Like 11, I know there was a long time ago. But that's kind of what people knew about gay men. Princess Diana shook a guy's hand with HIV. And it was like, worldwide news because everyone thought you could just catch it like that. You know, a game like, now we know so much more. So I just kind of was like, no, I'm not any of those things. But then we became friends. We swapped numbers in the morning. And I'd got a new friend group. And we used to talk a lot. No, I'd never really had a gay friend and connected with someone. And that was my first thought step into exploring. And it was from a distance, because it didn't even live in the country. So it was from a distance, so it felt safe. And then I very quickly shut that down. And I was like, no, no, no, I don't need to go any further with this. Like, I know who I am. I'm just going through this breakup and I'm in a different place. And then I guess once you start to explore that, it's very difficult to sort of go back. It's kind of like I made a prayer out of people looking in the mirror and seeing themselves and never really allowed myself to look in the mirror myself and see myself because Instead of doing that at a young age when I should have been exploring it. I was so headstrong to you know prove everyone wrong And I guess improving everyone wrong. I just depended myself which is the sad part Because everyone was like well, you must have always known and I said well, I didn't I wasn't thinking of men When I was having sex. I wasn't watching gay porn. I wasn't secretly meeting guys I just I didn't know until I did and that was very difficult probably. Yeah, like it's happening You brain is very powerful, but that was the first that I guess to really be in my authentic self It's such a powerful story and like seriously thank you for telling it because it is so important because to look at everything You've been able to accomplish now and what you're doing in your life Yeah, there was a version of you who didn't think you were worthy of living this life or that you could live this life Said such an example for people out there who whether it's their sexuality or it's just something else in life that they They're afraid of or they don't feel like they can be like they need role models and you are that role model and For people who want to obviously hear more from your voice. Yeah about that journey right about it in the book with such great care You do talk about a time in your life where you thought it's better to not be alive than to be alive and be gay Yeah, and I had a time in my life where I struggled with Some suicidal ideation as well. Thankfully you survived that and you woke up the morning after What changed in you and what do you think was the biggest lesson you learned from what was the lowest point in your life? Well, the hardest part was telling my kids. That was always the point for me that I mentally just couldn't really deal with Because as a dad you just don't want to harm your kids, you know, you don't have to harm them Someone has to miss school. You want to know who it is as a parent to think that you're the one causing pain towards your kids is just I couldn't process it at all can even program it so They got to the point where we had to tell them because people started to talk and I just felt the right thing we had to do and I wasn't ready because I had dealt with much myself I was still trying to understand it and I felt like I say incredibly shame for And so we told them and then I just was like I've got to get myself out of here because Being so victimized at school because of like something that I hadn't even chosen to be called You know, I just had a job in hair, but that was labeled as something before like I said I'd even discovered it People were so mean like I say like relentless like kids could be really nasty So before of bringing that shame of fear and sort of Pain to my kids. I was like the head and I carry that there make like this gay dad and people Still think that it's weird and I could be better for them to say that that is dead than gay You know definitely be better and that's when I decided that was what I was going to do and it was really just about them Fast forward to them finding me and I woke up in the hospital a few days later What changed was I realized I couldn't hate myself anymore like I couldn't hate myself more than anyone else did And I couldn't have tried to get further away from who I was or Trying to do the right thing and being normal and I failed at it and I think in that moment It was quiet. It wasn't allowed moment, but I just surrendered I just remember thinking to myself. Well, I tried to kill myself like and I Was ready for that. I was ready to surrender to that And it didn't and I thought well maybe Maybe I'm supposed to be here. Maybe for whatever reason I am supposed to be here And I can't continue like this because it was just so black and dark I thought what if I do the complete opposite of what I've been doing which is Completely trying to get away from like I felt like I couldn't I wanted to cut it out of me you know, but could have Had an operation and taking it out of me. I would throw it down the book Chris and I it gutted me You said being gay was a cancer inside my body. I desperately needed to cut out Yeah, because I didn't want it. I didn't want to be different. I wanted to be a dad to my kids I wanted to be normal I don't want to cause pains with the people. I didn't want to hurt other people. I just couldn't control anymore It felt like it once I'd seen it. I couldn't see it and I was just so afraid of it So I just what what if I just start here? What about if I'm just me Chris Appleton. I'm gay and what about I Just start there and I didn't really know what was next But in that moment of surrender I just kind of felt my shoulders go. I felt like I'd been Squeezing my hands and my Like shoulder my whole life. You know, I feel like tense my whole life without really realizing it And I thought look everyone's to me in my life will be in my life and the people that can't I understand but This is the only life I know how to live now. I'm gonna have to begin it and that was just that was the beginning and I mean the journey was Long after and so many life lessons along the way. Yeah, but I think the first point of change is just Given into the fact that something needs to change and just acknowledge in that. It doesn't mean that you're Or it might mean you broke it might mean you don't know and and that's okay But I think the first step is just okay. This is where I'm out. I'm gonna deal with this Because you know, I could have just carried on avoiding it But then I think that's when other things come into play like people go into substance abuse or alcohol I've never done that but you know, I think there's so many ways that people try to escape that life Yeah, we'll do so many things other than accepting the present moment sometimes and when we Resist the present moment we choose to add suffering on top of whatever it is and the moment you leaned into that acceptance you felt that lightness This episode of real pod is brought to you by better help and I'm so glad that it is because you all know how important therapy is to me How important it's been in my life and how almost every guest of the show Talks about how they utilize therapy as well to help them get through their problems that they're working through Game more control in their life or let go what might be holding them back and therapy can help easily identify What ways you down and holds you back by offering an unbiased perspective to better understand your relationships Motivations and emotions Something that I'm trying to let go of right now is the fear of disappointing people especially people who are important to me I feel like people have always been told that if someone tells you I'm disappointed in you It's the worst thing ever and maybe it's not because imagine a relationship where you've never disappointed the other person once It sounds impossible It sounds like you're going to try to be holding so many things together that you're going to be exhausted and so that's actually something I'm working on in therapy currently in 26 and I'm so grateful that I can lean on my therapist for support and better help us one of the world's largest online therapy platforms So they have served over five million people globally. 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It's Viori's softest premium stretch fabric It's lightweight, has a relaxed fit and it features a four-way performance stretch And I'm telling you when you feel this it is literally so soft and dreamy I have the set in a dark gray My mother-in-law has it in black And my favorite part about wearing my Viori sets is I can wear them while I'm launching around the house doing nothing But then if I suddenly get a spark of energy and I want to go run some errands All I have to do is throw all my shoes and I look super cute for a day out in the town So you can head to viori.com/realpod. That's v-u-o-r-i.com/realpod To get 20% off your first purchase So get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet At viori.com/realpod That's viori-v-o-r-i.com/realpod Exclusion supply visit the website for full terms and conditions Then in the book you talk about this concept called the rebound Which I loved so much These four questions. Why is everyone not asking themselves these every quarter? Do you mind sharing them with us today? I think this is really helpful for listeners When I sort of put the book together I was originally I did a book that was very different I had a first proposal of the book which was maybe what people expected Which was a bit more glamorous a bit more popular polished a bit more kind of like my social media. And I kind of thought to myself, he this isn't real. This is not actually authentic. It's not really going to help anyone. And I think I'm at a point in my life where I really want to help people. I want to help people that feel unseen, alone, afraid, not sure, or just someone that looks in the mirror and goes, is this it? So I rewrote the book and I started with the darkest point of my life. And I think I wanted the book to feel like a conversation of memoir of some of my things that I've really struggled with because I think that maybe helps the reader and what they'll find in the book is a way to relate and feel like they have a voice. But I also wanted to put things like these four questions in there as steps for people to go through and be guided into how they start to address change. Because the biggest thing with changes people, I don't know how, how are you start? I don't even know where to start. And you start with exactly that, just acknowledging that there is something that doesn't fill a line, something that doesn't feel right. And it's a discovery to find out what that was. So the four questions, for example, it's just a way of breaking down and taking you through where you're at in your life, where you want to be, and help you see sort of journey into getting there. So the four are, why have, what do I need? What can I do? And what is out of my control? And it's basically just a way of, first of all, stabilizing yourself and putting your feet on the ground and looking at what the situation is, and then it's looking at where you need to get to, and how you're going to do that, and also what the truth is, because we have this voice inside of our head, which is usually a hater. Most people have it. I mean, to find anyone that doesn't, but it basically is always kind of tearing ourselves apart, like you're stupid, you can't do that. The way of actually kind of cutting down that voice, turning the volume down. It's always be that, I don't think there's ever a way, I mean, I still have it, but instead of it being a volume 10, it's a volume two, and I can actually just come back to myself. And I'm like, oh, I'm just going back into my old fears and insecurities. Let me come back to actually who I am right now, what I know in my life. And these questions and these guidelines are really helpful to just get you to that place, and put your feet back on the ground and let you back in the room, you know? - I love that they're so simple and so forward, because that's what it is, right? Like everyone thinks they need a 10 step this, all the information on this, it's literally not that deep. - It's really not. You need, what do you want? What's in your control? I had a mentor of mine recently. I went to lunch with him, I was crying, I was like, I'm feeling so overwhelmed with work and what I want to build. And he was like, ask yourself, what do I want my life to look like, and answer the question, and then build your life to become that. It's a simple concept. And so I thought those questions were amazing, and I will be journaling those questions. - Oh, good, oh good. - 2026. - Good, I'm glad. I think that's what makes me so happy. Anyone that's read the book has been like, oh, my God, I needed to hear this. And even really amazing self-help people that I've done podcasts with all stuff, you know, they read the book, and they're genuinely touched or surprised or learned something from, and that means a lot to me, because I've had a kept the original book, it's like a small part of who I am. So to an extent, you could say my social media is a lie, because it's a very polished version of my life. People don't necessarily get to see the middle parts or the behind the scenes of it. And that's kind of what the book is a lot about. It's about the inside. So let's go away this polished glamorous finish. And let's take you behind the scenes of what life's really like. - That's super interesting to think about. And you also get to see the behind the scenes of so many of the like perfect Instagrams that exists out there. As someone who really lives and works behind the curtain of Hollywood almost every day, what can you say just in general about like, people who are consuming fans, audiences should know. Like, you know, we hear all the time. Everyone's just a normal person. Everyone has their struggles. - It's so easy to come jealous of people and, you know, look at the next person that has so much more than you. They have the perfect relationship or they have the perfect job or the hair is so much longer and prettier or whatever it is that we're triggered by. We're all triggered by certain things. And we can feel envy. But the things in the book about using envy, for example, as a motive to be able to be a better version of yourself. And instead of looking at, oh, look what they've got. I see you use them as a mentor. Like how have they got what they've got? What makes them them? Well, how did they get to that point? I remember when I used to just literally pass pins up in Paris, like I'd have to trouble myself there, pay for my own travel from England. I'd be avoiding the like train conductor 'cause I couldn't afford the fare. And I'd be passing pins. I'd be up before in the morning just to pass pins for the show I wasn't doing hair. I wasn't like assisting the head guy. I was literally passing pins to some other guy that was there assisting that I would be like a sponge and I'd absorb every information. I'd be like, why is the main guy the main guy? How does he talk? How does he walk? How does he interact with people? What's his hands do when he's doing hair? What is he looking at? When he's in the mirror and he's doing the models hair? And like, I've done that in every aspect of my life. Just become a sponge. And if there's something that I've inspired by, which you could class as an envy, I would always look at like, well, how do I turn that into something that I could achieve and work towards? Embi is like kind of paralyzing. And it keeps you where you're at. If you flip that situation instead of envy into them being more of a mentor and ask how they got there, then it's incredibly motivating. And it becomes like a challenge. And it's something to get you deep into and something you can work towards. There's this quote going viral right now. I love and it's, how can you think it's impossible for you when other people have it? And it's like, seriously, if someone else has been able to accomplish this, you could do it too. Totally, yeah. Now, so many people listening would love the opportunity for you to look at their hair. Touch their hair, do their hair, tell them a tip. What are like three high level things that are just best practices that you would say to everyone listening? I would say, like, get yourself a really good hairstyle. So I remember when I used to work in my cell on, I would always sit down with the client and try and find out more about them. I try and find out where they come from, what they do, what they aspire to do. All these things kind of encouraged the client to take them from where they're at and the possibility of where they could get to. And they didn't even know sometimes they could do that. Like, oh, I can change my hair, I can go blonde. You know, oh, I was always told I have my brunette and I can only be a brunette. You know, and I was like, if you told you that. And I'm like, well, actually, this girl at school, you know, it's like from, it's like again, your roots don't define you, they do. It's one thing one person said when there were 10, but they've carried it in the whole lives. That vulnerability I sit in in the chair is always there. Now, I know some hairstylists would come over and they'd stand behind the client and just be like, what are we doing today? Same as usual. And you kind of would be like, you could see them. They're like, yeah, sure. 'Cause again, they're not seeing, they're not seeing. They're just like, stay as you are, stay in your lane, stay in your box. And I think I've always really enjoyed bringing people out of that. So consultation is really, really important. And I think making sure that you have a hair stylist that offers that to you. You know, if you don't, then maybe it's time to change it up. Because how are you ever going to get to, you know, somewhere better if you're not, you know, exploring that and what that means? - Love that. - I'm a big fan of like masking your hair. I think it's really important. We put so much heat and so much pressure with color on our hair these days. Do you have a favorite mask? - Yeah, the Money Mass by Colorado actually helped them. We designed it together. Because most masks weigh their hair down. If your hair's thin or fine, it's like a 20 minute thing and it makes your hair flat. You know, you do it once a week. We made the molecules really small. So it absorbs into the hair. It can use it literally every time. It's great for all hair types and all hair textures. It's a mixture of moisture and protein. And it's just a great mass universe that you can use. - I'm influenced by the adding to cart. - No, it's fab. And then I think probably the last thing is like, sometimes people wash their hair like it's laundry and they're so aggressive with it. So I think that she's just looking after the hair you have, you know, using the right shampoos, the right conditioners, and just giving it a bit of love. I think people sometimes, you know, forget that that's something to have to wear every day. - I brush really hard. And it's like between a gentle and like you're ripping it off as you brush your hair. - You're breaking every bit of blonde off, yeah. - Side part or middle part, 'cause that's the debate right now. - All the parts. - All that I knew you were gonna say that. - Which makes you feel good, right? - I guess what we all have to wear black or what doesn't work. - Yeah. - And also everyone changes, no side part. And then like, you know, they have like a Hollywood wave and Hollywood wave looks good to the side. Especially it's fitting for the occasion. Everything's about the occasion in the event and the story telling, what are you gonna tell the same old story with a middle part your whole life? You're gonna change it up. Change it up. And then when you get back to your middle part, you'll feel like yourself, I don't know. It's just good to have fun. - I love that. - I love that. - That is when you're like, oh, side parts are so old. And it's like, not really. Middle parts are so, you know what I mean? It's just nice to change it up and do something with it. - I think the change up is the key, right? You can't do something for too long. - Yeah. - Have you had a celebrity ever trust you with a really big hair transformation that you were like, oh my gosh. This is, my life is depending on this. We're going from A to Z here. - Baby, don't know my hair. That's what I do. - You're like all the time. - Well, I just never been the beachy wave kind of guy. You know, like, what are we doing with each way? I just was like, well, what about a short bar? I mean, the first time I ever did Kim Kardashian says she'd always had the long, wavy, middle part vibes. And we did that short side part kind of blunt bar blob. - Is that a wig, though, with a real hair? Because sometimes if you're actually-- - Sometimes it's pieces, like four Ys falls on the bag and braid their hair and stuff. It's certainly a wonderful trick. For most people, no, you can do now, you know. And if you don't, you can look at my top and just check it out. 'Cause you can just share these. - I love you to talk by the way. You are doing so much good work out there for people like me. - Oh, thank you. I think there's so many fun ways to express yourself with hair. And I'm just always about that. I love doing something different. So I think full transformation always. I actually recently, just last year, I did Kim's pixie cut in Paris and it's something I've never thought Kim would have. It's a pixie haircut. And it's pretty bold, you know, to get off as it's a wig, but to get her all her hair underneath that and make it flat and then go out to the world. It's one thing if you do it on a photo shoot 'cause you can control it to an extent. But when you're out just walking in the streets, like most people wouldn't even take a selfie broad. You know that's harsh. white day life. I learn you got paparazzi following you around and stuff. There's always a lot of pressure, but I think it's kind of part of my job, and I think that's the fun part of it, is the fact that you get to story tell. I'm grateful to be able to work with amazing women like Kim and JLo, and I think they're all incredible women, and they are artists at what they do, and I've learned something from everyone I've worked with. Do you still get pinch me moments, or has it become, which would be understandable? I still remember every time. Yeah. Before I need a look, like, you know, a week we just did the Golden Globes, and I said to Delaney, my sister, and I was like, "Oh, no, I was with my trainer at the JLo. I'm anxious today." And he's like, "Why is that? I've got the Golden Globes." And he's like, "You're still anxious." He's like, "You like the king of hair?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm loving." Yeah, I'm kind of, not really. I don't know. Just feel like you're always as good as your last job to an extent. That's good. You keep the humility. I love that feeling, though, because I never want to be like, "Yeah, I totally know what I'm doing." And I feel like it's the beginning of the end. Like, what a dick to feel that? Well, you know what I mean? I feel like it's so arrogant. And I think that's what people think I'm going to be like, because a lot of people, when they meet me, they were like, "Oh, you're so much, you're so nice, you're humble, or you like to have a laugh and stuff." And I'm like, "Yeah, oh, they'll be like, you're so much taller in real life." I'm like, "Do I come across as, like, not approachable and small on my side?" I don't know. Like, it's so funny how we take these pictures and a couple of seconds of footage and we assume who that person is, but we all do it, it's fine. It is refreshing to be able to meet people and, you know, have a different conversation. And that's probably why people will be quite shocked by the book, because it is a very raw and honest open, you know, impression, because I felt like people knew so much of me. It was time to scratch that away and maybe go, you know, behind the scenes and under that glossy surface and show a more raw, vulnerable side. Because hopefully that'll inspire someone else to do the same. And if that helps one person, then the book was worth doing. Yeah, I think so. It was incredible. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I'm so excited for your book to be out into the world. It was an honor to get to talk to you more and hear more about your story. I loved it. Can I keep the slippers? Yes, they're yours forever, Chris. She said, "Take your shoes off." I put these on and I said, "Plaja, a raw mind. It matches my outfit perfectly." It looks great. Thank you. I have this tattoo to my toe. A smiley face. Perfect. I have a little strawberry. We've made it to get some strawberry slippers. 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