Speaker 1Welcome. Oh my gosh, Michelle Cassandra-Dawson, I'm so excited for you to be here. Thank you so much for coming to talk to me about this book. It's my copy with all of my like little, all of my notes in it. And the thing that is true about this book that is almost, that's true about many of your books is that on the surface, it's like, okay, this is like a simple, like really, you know, like really straightforward, but really, you know, and then I'm like, oh my God, there's so, this is like, it's a manual for more than just protection, I think. True. But I will share, I have a lot of questions for you. And also I want you to share whatever you want to share. But I will start by saying, I didn't realize how important it would be for me to read this, especially the invoking spiritual support to sustain. To sustain your energy. Because one of the things that I learned from another dear colleague, teacher, friend of mine, whose name is Diana Rose Harper, she's an extraordinary astrologer. She does this workshop about your first and your second houses. And it's the same thing, like you all have a lot of parallels, but one of them is like simple, straightforward teaching that is so rich and deep and just like continues to serve in so many ways. But she, she helped me understand that as a Leo rising, that my lifelong requirement is sustaining and managing energy, right? Fixed fire sign, sustaining and managing energy. And I was like, when I received that information, I was like, oh, it just put so many things into, clarified so many, made so many things click. So thank you for writing this book for me. Clearly, I was the intended target. Yes. I want to start by asking like, what, what led you to writing this book?
Speaker 2Yes. I, one, want to say thank you for being in conversation with me about anything really, and specifically this book today and all the things always. And I'm a Leo son. You might know this. I do know that. I did not know. Are you an Aquarius rising? I'm a Cancer rising Aquarius. Cancer rising Aquarius.
Speaker 1I knew that there was an Aquarius in there somewhere.
Speaker 2Yes. Because I remember you asked me years ago in a, it was a training, astrology came up and, and I told you, and you said that makes so much sense. It does make so much sense. When I said it to you. So yes, of course, you know much more about it than I do, but the, the sustaining energy piece of this, I didn't, I've heard similar things, but not in that language. So I appreciate you starting there, because that makes sense that that would be part of the work, right? Fire, fixed sign, setting things aflame, but also needing to sustain the fire. Right. And that was one of our roles. So I get that. Um, and what led me to write this book and write it now is, I mean, you, the introduction and many people know my grandmother, my maternal grandmother's name, Dorothy. I think Dorothy is one of the reasons why I wrote this book as she was my co-writer. And my other grandmother is in this book too, who I really don't talk about much. There's Jasper, my dog. I know your other protector. I know. Yeah. He's about to flip through the house and bark at somebody. So welcome to the call Jasper, right on time. Um, I think Dorothy, she was the first person to teach me about devotion and ritual and practice in that way. A daily. And I understood it as an adult. Sorry, Jasper was just being very loud.
Speaker 1He's having, he's having a moment. He's having issues. He feels really, I know I'm waiting for Delilah. Yeah, exactly. I was like, I just, there's something about like the way that they protect it. Right. I mean, it's, it is her number one job, right? Like I am a single who lives alone in an urban area. Her number one job is to bark and be loud.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's true. And Jasper came in with the goal of protecting me. We just didn't know that at the time until we met. So there he went to do that, even though I am fine. So Dorothy is one of the reasons why I wrote this book. The other reason is that, um, I obviously have been a spiritual practitioner for a long time. I'm interspiritual and have like a treasure chest of practices that I wanted to share with the world about what people might do. At this time, when we are overwhelmed, many of us and distracted and trying to figure out where to place our energy and attention, I thought it might be important to offer, you said a manual. So a manual like this for people to have many practices to pull from, um, and to find ones that resonate, to be able to draw their center back, right. Or to come back into center when it's, we're living during an unsteadying time, I think so. Not that that's new. It's just a little, it's a little intense right now. And so that's a little intense right now. Yeah. Yeah. That's the other reason.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah, for sure. No. And I was, um, the epilogue, right. It's like, you know, that moment where you're like, okay, I was writing at this book at one, at one moment and then the bottom dropped out and here we are, like, and it is now arriving, right. The birth, the book is being burst into really. It's like perfect moment. I have two interrelated questions, but I think I want to start with this one, which is when we say you are protected. Like, I think one of the first questions that might come through, like for anybody is protected from what, right. So there are a lot of different, and you give a lot of different examples in this book, um, but I want to bring it home for people, right. So that they really understand. Okay. I am in this situation. This is something that I can come to. It's a good question.
Speaker 2People ask, they've been asking this a lot because it's the title. You are protected is a declarative statement, right. And, and we're, we live during a time when many people aren't protected. I understand that I can feel into that. That's one of the reasons why I wrote the book. And yet there's some part of me that, that moves with protection of all kinds. Ancestral elemental animal energies. Right. The curious, all the things I've weaved into the book. And this isn't, it isn't necessarily like a self-defense manual, you know, or class. That's not how I think about it. Um, because I don't try to move through the world, defend it all the time. That's why I don't think about it that way, but it is, it is how do you, and I have written about spiritual hygiene. What are all the ways. You can tend your inner sanctuary and take care of your spirit so you can continue to show up. That's the kind of protection. And we know there are malevolent energies that are present that are tearing communities apart, families apart, the earth apart. Of course, I am implicated in that too, but I don't believe I'm malevolent. I've been indoctrinated in a system and behave in certain ways, but I think there are malevolent energies that we do need to, um, protect ourselves against. And also, as I said earlier, come back to center. So it's, it's not a manual for people to move around the world and be defended all the time or defensive. That's not what I'm thinking about, but it's like taking care of your immune system. Like when it's compromised, we actually have to, or at least when mine is, I need to tend it in a certain way so that things don't go awry or more than they already are. I think about this as that, like. How do you, things are completely imbalanced around us and maybe within us. I don't know, but certainly in the, in the outer world. Yeah. And so how do we, um, protect ourselves from further imbalance?
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, and what's interesting is that I knew immediately and it's like, you are protected. I was like, oh, thank God. Cause I really. I need that reminder. Um, it's interesting because I have a, a friend and colleague who I had talked some about, you know, building spiritual protection and, you know, some spiritual hygiene and that sort of thing. She's a very, um, she has some unique skills, let's just put it that way. Um, and we've talked a lot about like, what does that look like? And in what situations might she need that kind of protection? Um, but that's not everybody, right? Like not everybody is walking out in the world with like a very porous spirit and, and sort of sensory perception. Um, but I think many of us are aware in this moment in time of how fragile we are as individuals, how fragile are, um, some of our relationships and our communities could be when they're stress tested, how fragile the systems that we're, you know, the systems that we're in. Um, but I think many of us are aware in this moment in time of how fragile we are as individuals, how fragile the systems that we're, you know, the systems that we're in. silent agreements that we all sort of lived in an assumption, like that would continue. Yes. You know, that those things are like, oh, yeah, no, that doesn't exist anymore. The way that we have oriented the world for the last 50 years, that does not exist anymore. So yeah, I mean, I feel like there's something about like, just having the spiritual capacity to move in the world. And that for me is, I mean, this is the core for me of my work right now. What I feel like is really important is that as things get more challenging, I don't, I don't, I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. I wish that weren't the case. But I, I think that's what's going to happen. And that in order for us to like, survive and manage our energy, sustain our energy to continue to build something, you know, working. And I think that's what's really worth moving towards. Like, we need these really deep and sustaining, nourishing practices. Who is this book for? Like, when you write, do you imagine like, you know, this is for this person who lives here doing this work for?
Speaker 2Well, it's interesting. Because when I first started to write this book, I thought about space holders, because I, which is anybody working one to one with humans or the more than human world or in groups or stewarding what we want to move toward to use the language that you just used, right? So that's how I think about space holders. So people are clear, that could be a facilitator, that could be a parent, that could be a caregiver, that could be an environment, like it's like, could be a therapist, could be a
Speaker 1movement builder, could be a, yes.
Speaker 2Teacher. Anyone. And I, I used a lot of language in the beginning for space holders, because I am, that is a big part of what I do in the world, hold people, hold nervous systems, hold space for change. That's the kind of space holding I do. And, and as I got into it, and writing more and more, I came into the knowing that it really is for anyone who is engaged in any transformative work, like all the people we just named, all the people who are involved in any transformative work. Like all the people we just named, all the people who are involved in any transformative work, like all the people we just named, all the people who are involved in any transformative work. I don't know a person right now who wouldn't benefit from some of this medicine. And I don't say that from an egoic place. I'm just like, there's, there's so there's got to be a journaling prompt in here, at least that will make someone noodle on what is going on, or spell or curio. I don't know. There's so much.
Speaker 1There is so, thank you for saying it. Because I really, I kept being like, okay, I could just work with this chapter. Right, like this, I'll just pick one. I'm just going to flip it up into like, okay, agents of protection. Right. And like, okay, what does that look like in terms of, like, our ancestral practices or, you know, and I'm just like, there are so many things that I could write. It's like, I was like, okay, wait, how am I supposed to go on to the next chapter? There's so much more to do. Other questions is like, how, how would you advise someone who was relatively new to these kinds of practices? How to, you know, to not get overwhelmed by how much there is, and to sort of where to begin?
Speaker 2Yeah, in some ways, I think people can open to really any page that is about a protective agent and work with that or anything. Any prompt, or one of the archetypes, for example, right? People can begin that way. The book can work that way. And some of the most important pieces might be why protection, why now? And the invocations in particular, the one about being worthy of protection and care. Yeah, people, and other the one about the vessel and channel, somebody just brought it up yesterday, the ancestral invocation, you know, their invocations, people could say throughout the day.
Speaker 1I love myself that are out in the world, all of the mental tendrils, the emotional tendrils, the, you know, and just like, okay, I'm, I'm, I gather myself back in order to be fully present and available. Yeah. Like, this, you can't see my whole, like, you guys, I wish you could see my whole body language. Yeah, I mean, that one has really stuck with me since I read it. Yeah, so, yes, and many people
Speaker 2told me that, like, there's a reclamation that happens with that, like, I reclaim myself in this moment, right, not, not separate from others, but because that's what we need to do to feel the ground underneath us again. Like, it's, and for, I, I don't, maybe I, I just didn't know that people, I mean, on one level, spiritually, I likely knew that people may need this kind of energy, but I wasn't, I was channeling, I was writing, I was, and I have worked with that kind of invocation before calling my energy back to me. Yeah. But that does feel uniquely Michelle, too, like the language in it is such a Michelle thing to say. Yeah. And invite in. So. It resonates in that way with my soul, right, and on a cellular level, and I just, I've, I maybe was not aware of how much perhaps people have been discouraged from calling their energy back because of feeling like that is a selfish act, or I'm not deserving of it, or I'm not worthy. And I know there are many places that may come from, trauma, growing up, narratives, relation, I mean, all the places, right? Yeah, how we're socialized, all of those things, of course. Yeah, and I just didn't know. So I think if someone wanted to start with the first line of that invocation, I call my energy back to me now, they could start there with this book, right, and then work through it because there is so much versus feeling like I have to move through everything. I, you know, it's like this platter of practices that people can be like, oh, this archetype, the primordial mother really works for me, or the magician really works. Or the crown works for me, right, or honeybee as the animal maybe, or bear. So you can choose one. It's like any other practice and work with it and see how it changes you. That's what I would suggest.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah, and to allow it to be, it was interesting because as I, as I read through, I was like, you know, after the second chapter, I was like, okay, I just, I'm just going to have to, to make my way through and like let whatever calls me, call me. Yes. And I was surprised that one of the ones that called me, I'm like pulling in my little notes here. The stickies. My little stickies, exactly, was Hekate. Yes. I was like, why is, okay, apparently she would like some, I was like, oh, I need to do some more reading. I need to dig into this. I need to. Will you share a little bit about how she arrived?
Speaker 2Yes, I love this story and people say Hekate, Hecate, Hecate, there are different ways to say it. So just so people know, and I didn't know who she was and so I, um, was living in Portland, Oregon. My things were unraveling in my personal life in many ways, and it was a really challenging time. And I was asleep one night. I had a really sort of many vivid dreams that year I lived in Portland because there was so much change happening. And I also think that landscape, the Pacific Northwest drew those dreams, um, into my, my nighttime and slumber time. I just think it's part of what happens there. And so I was asleep, had this dream where someone's whispering and I don't even know what it sounded like, but it was like, heck it. They were whispering or heck tea. They were just, and I, I woke up and remembered that piece of it. They whispered over and over in my ear. And I woke up and was like, who is that? I don't even know who that is. What is that? What was the name they were saying? I couldn't even really. Pronounce it, but I kind of knew the letters. And then I went to the metaphysical shop around the corner. They're on every corner in Portland, Oregon. And I went and then the store owner, Michelle, I've been there many times. Her name's Michelle. And she, I started to say heck it or heck a day or a hot day's name. And she said, I know exactly who you're talking about. And she took me to a section where there were little figurines, um, deity statues of heck a tea or heck it. And, um, I have, um, this big deity statue that I bought there where she has the triple moon, triple goddess. Um, she has her torch. There's a snake around her. It's a pretty tall deity statue. And then I have another one that's tiny that there are three representations for the, um, the moon, the triple, triple goddess, um, and the crossroads. And so I've worked with her both for work, moving, through the dark and with the dark and being comfortable with that, because that's one of the things she did as a psycho pop. She helped Demeter Persephone's mother in the underworld, try to look for Persephone. She did many things, but that's one story people may know. And, um, she was adept at moving between realms and she just wasn't afraid of afraid of the dark caves, right? She could be in the darkness and she, and I believe she was benevolent. I don't, I believe she was like teach, she can teach us something about the, the dark and how to sit with it, be with it and experience it as a cloak of protection or a cave of protection is one of the practices that I offer in there. And you are protected. And I've also meditated to her when I've needed to make a decision at the crossroads, like which way to go. And I love her. Like I've, I have been, she's been with me. She came to me since 2017 and we have been companions ever since.
Speaker 1Yeah. It's interesting because, I mean, I have been sort of familiar with her energy before now. Um, but it's, it's, it's interesting that she is the one who stepped forward and I was like, well, okay, I don't, okay. I guess I'll just do some reading about this. Um, I, part of me also wonders if the psychopomp is part of that. Um, cause I have, I have some other practices that I do. Um, but yeah, that like, the, the ability to have a guide right across the veil and back again is, um, really helpful and really, yeah. Cause it's, it's, it's like, there are, there are places that are, I think, inherently scary to go. Um, and, and sometimes that is, you know, I think archetypally, right. That's like, okay, how do we go into the, into the other realms? Right. And not get stuck there. Right. That's like the most, I mean, depending on who you're talking to, whether that's archetypal or literal. Mm-hmm but also that there, I think there's a lot of darkness that we're gonna have to be willing to walk into. Mm-hmm um, and to feel that, yeah, that the cloak, the cave. I, I love that. The, the cloak, like now I'm, I'm blending yes, your stories that like having a cloak of protection to be able to walk. Um, and also I, I think I, I also like can't separate this book and this conversation from the moment that we're having it. Right. Mm-hmm so Venus is retrograde. Mm-hmm um, you know, Mercury's about to station. It's like, okay, here we go into the Scorpio darkness. Um, but that the parallel with the story of an Anna, right. And like going into the underworld and, and that willingness to, you know, that story is really challenging because it, you know, it asks us to go, okay, you're gonna, you're gonna release seven items, right? Sort of. Yes. Well, number seven pieces of yourself that you have held onto that have been, that it's not like, oh, this, this no longer serves me. So I'll, I'll drop it. It's like, no. Okay. What is the thing that I have been relying on? Mm-hmm that it's time to release, to release for, for this next, right. It's like thinking about that for me as a crossroad is also really timely. It's
Speaker 2interesting that you brought, yeah, you brought that up. Um, because this, the, the transition was happening the year before I moved to Portland and the, the, when I made the decision to move to Portland, Venus was in retrograde. It's when I first learned about the story of an Anna and going down and, you know, releasing these different parts, not necessarily always by choice, but like being stripped of right. These and all of this upheaval was happening in my life. And also I, I entered into that in some ways. So it is, it's fascinating. I think the timing of this conversation
Speaker 1and this deity, um, for us now, mm-hmm
Speaker 2okay.
Speaker 1I could probably ask you six more questions about all these other stickies. Um, but I also, you know, we agreed to talk for half an hour. So, um, is there something that feels really potent or that is rising for you that you want to make sure that people hear today?
Speaker 2Well, one practice that, um, feels important. I've offered. It in a few conversations about you are protected is casting a circle of protection. So there's a cloak of protection. We might imagine I'm thinking about the circle of protection because generally when I do it, I call in the cardinal directions. I call in the elemental energies. I call in the above and below and benevolent beings or ancestors or anyone we wish to call in and also tap into the multi-directional support. So below and above, but at my back body, front body, right side, left side, all around me. And I would invite people to play with this kind of practice. And I've been in, in some of my meditations, um, and Asana classes, I've guide I've led people through creating their circle of protection. And I've said, it can be made of like glitter or stardust or flowers, or maybe it's rose thorns. I don't know what it is for people, right? Whatever it needs to be for people. And it doesn't necessarily have to be circular and maybe so I just want to say that this is not the first
Speaker 1time I've experienced this, um, when we start talking about things that have extraordinary power, um, and this kind of, uh, more, more than human, more than physical power, that often it, uh, it starts to short circuit things. Um, and so the fact that in the moment that Michelle is talking about casting a circle of protection, that she's talking about how to, um, initiate that like protection and surroundedness for herself and like for others, that like, that's the moment that the technology is like, I don't know what to do now. I don't know how to make that work. Like that's no, I was just saying like, can you hear me? I can have like, I know this has happened to you before.
Speaker 2It's happened a lot in the last couple of days, but, and it was like, right. You're right. I just heard the last bit. So right. As I am. Like we need this like spiritual sabotage is that, you know, it's like warfare is happening in that
Speaker 1way. Well, it's funny. It's like, I think about it in like on it, like in, on both sides, right. That on the one hand, yes. It's like, Nope, this is not a thing. I know you can, we're just gonna stop talking about that. This is not a thing. I understand that you would like for people to hear about this right now, but mm-hmm. And. That often like when we bring in, uh, more than human, right. The like energetic practices, the, Like there is a, there is, it's like the word that I used before was like short circuits. It's like more than the technology can hold. Yeah. There is like a transmission that starts to happen and it's like, nope.
Speaker 2That's exactly what happened. And y'all, this happens with technology a lot where it's like, I mean, it's happened to me multiple times where it's like everything will be jacked up on your computers and your phone and you will use nothing like this is, and y'all create your circle protection for this very reason. I need to like put one around my computer, I think, or something clear this. I need to burn something
Speaker 1next to it. It's really funny because I, um, I don't often, right. It's like, I have some, like, um, there's a wonderful, uh, astro magic, uh, apothecary that I love. And so I have a couple of, I have specifically a mercury, um, water that for clearing. And, and I don't, I was like sort of like getting ready and I was like, oh, I do actually, there's something, there's stuff, right. So I'm going to like do all of that and a number of things. And I was like, yeah, we're just going to like, let's, let's let the form and the content match, right. Like, you know, smudge the computer and the space and the, um, which is not to say that, you know, and what I will say is the people I know who are. The most energetically connected, um, I ha I had a good friend and, and the first time she told me, I was just like, whatever, you're just like, you just like feel uncomfortable with technology. That's fine. You can be uncomfortable with technology. And then I watched it over and over and the stuff that like, doesn't like, I did just did not have the same kind of technology, technological problems that she had. And she's like, no, this is just, it just always happens to me. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's a real thing.
Speaker 2It's real when we're, it is real. And to your point, when we are tuned in or connected in that way, and also trying to do some work aligned with the highest good and the little sneaky energies will come in and say, no, not, not now or like, um, or like, let
Speaker 1me just, uh, I'm just going to throw a little wrench in and you can, you know, how important is this to you? Right. That's true.
Speaker 2Yeah. I love that framing. That's I love that. Cause I like ran to my, I have another computer and it came up and then I heard this one come up again and I was like, what is even happening? But thank you. I'm going to try to log back in, you know, so I want people to create their circle or their cylinder or their, whatever it is of protection and, and just visualize that, um, as they move about their lives, whatever that is, or if they know they're about to go into a situation. Yeah. It could also be if you know, you're going into a situation that may take some energy or drain energy or just be challenging or, you know, to really have that circle of support and protection. So that's what I wanted to share, um, and the computer let us know why that's important. It just did its thing, you know?
Speaker 1Exactly. It's like, so it's such a, thank you. Yes. It's so perfect. It's just like such a perfect, you know, you will appreciate this. Um, and for folks who, who aren't familiar, um, Michelle and I met through my friend and teacher, Sean Johnson. And when Sean and I did our, our episode of the podcast together, it was exactly, it was just like, I was like, okay, that's like the same, right? It's like, yeah. It's like just people who have, there's like extra Shakti. That's all. Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah. It's a good way. I'll think of it that way from now on. I do think that's true. But yes. Yeah.
Speaker 1I think it's both. Right. Like, I'm not, I'm not interested in like completely tossing aside the notion of malevolent energy. Right. And like, yeah. Little bees and little thorns and little hiccups and like, um, and yeah, it also is like, I would, I, I'm going to be in the, uh, it, it helps me from getting too dark is really like, okay. Just a little extra, just a little extra Shakti. That's all. That's all that happened. I was sitting in my altar. Yeah. I was sitting in my altar the other day, uh, and I am not really one who like asks for direct things. Usually I'm just asking for guidance and insight and, um, but I was asking for a kind of like, um, you know, um. Yeah. Like a couple of specific things. And I was like, okay, look, y'all, you know, I don't usually do this, but like, I need you to send me this and this and, um, you know, how, however it will be of benefit to the most people, et cetera. And, um, and also like, I need some, I need a, I need some clarity. Like I need a real clear sign, like no arbitrary, whatever, um, you know, thank you in advance for all the things. And I just like sat, you know, sat like close my eyes and like sat and took like two breaths and the light in the room went out. Just like light bulb went. I was like, okay, thank you. I, I, I, they were like, oh, we would, you would, you would like a very clear sign. There is a very clear sign. Um, that's just sweet. Yes. It's I, and I just cannot emphasize enough, um, you know, the way that this really is. This really is a manual. Like that then brings me back to like the spell work chapter, right. The, the, the, you know, the curios and, you know, it's like all of the ways that we can be protected both in that, you know, creating that energetic boundary, you know, developing our energetic spiritual hygiene, um, inviting in protective energies, but then also having like material stuff. Yeah. That, you know, having talismans and.
Speaker 2Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And sigils. And yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. That was the fun. I loved writing the chapter of spells because it was so fun to put it all together and also be connected to what wanted to come through as a spell and to invite people to connect with their inner alchemist and which for sure, um, a magician.
Speaker 1So yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much, my friend. Um, and for those of you who. Have missed it, I want you to go to your favorite plate, your favorite bookseller. Yes. It's reversed on the screen. So maybe that'll get fixed later, but we'll, I'll share a bookshop link. Um, it's yeah, it could, you could just like have it on your bookshelf all the time and it's an incredible resource. So thank you so much for channeling it through for us.
Speaker 2Thank you, Mira. Thanks for receiving it. Thanks for being part of it. Thanks for being in conversation with me today. Yeah. And for the supportive, transformative, magical work and practice that you create and engage in the world.
Speaker 1Thanks so much for everything. And, um, I hope that everybody else has a lovely rest of your day. Yes. Many blessings. Blessings and protections. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
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