Chi Ndika

I'm Lisa B. Thompson, and I'm Richard J. Reddick, and this is season three of Black Austin Matters. So I don't think everyone knows that Richard Reddick and I have a course called Black Austin Matters, which is a signature course at the University of Texas for first year students, and we have them think about who they would like to have as a guest on Black Austin Matters, and what happened to us in the last two years, Richard Reddick? Yeah, so it's interesting how it happens because we don't give them any guidance. We just ask them to research and think of somebody we should interview for the show. For the past two years, in a row, you have come up as a group. And I think we want to have a one year work. One year two groups. In the same year, because they don't check with each other beforehand, they just come and present and make the case. So two groups one year, and then what, it's a total of three groups of students of groups of five to six students, too. Of which, I know at least one group, or one person a group did go actually to visit. And yet, because other people went and on a day, it wasn't open, it was very fore-lawing. Yeah, fore-lawed, very sad. They were, so you come highly recommend it by some really brilliant and enthusiastic students, and we're fortunate to have with us today Chi Indika. Thank you for coming to Black Oster Matters. Thank you for having me. I'm honored that so many students wanted to hear what I have to say. Oh, indeed, indeed. So I want to give a first of all shout out to the Hill Toppers. You're a St. Ed's grad. And you're a psychology major at St. Ed's. So tell us about your journey to St. Edwards, and if that's the first time you got to Austin, tell us about that. Yeah, so I was born in Austin, and then grew up in Suburbia in Round Rock. Went to Cedar Ridge. It was the first graduating class there. I actually went to Texas Tech first as a freshman, and was there for a year. That was really rough for me. Just being born in Austin, and then moving to Lubbock, it's completely different. Very different environment, and just being around my family was difficult, without my family was really difficult. Then I went to Baylor for a semester, and I finished. School at St. Edwards. Okay. Okay. And what made you want to start your business here in Austin? I think I had always wanted to start a business, and when I was younger, I would do like, I had little side hustles all the time. I would go to Kenya and come back with little purses, and try to sell them to my classmates. I would bake cookies and sell them to like my friends and classmates. Yep, I was selling clothes when I was in college via Etsy. So I've had like a couple little small businesses, and I've just always been the type of person that doesn't want to work for anyone else, and I especially, I don't like being told what to do, and I just grew up like that. So I figured if I work for myself, I wouldn't have to listen to someone else telling me what to do. I could be my own boss, but I feel like lately I'm like, I kind of miss someone telling me what to do. There's, it's kind of nice being like, I get to turn my brain off when I go to work and just do whatever another person wants me to do, but I think about it, and I'm like, there's, I could never go back. I have to continue working for myself. That's so interesting. I think as professors were probably the same way, like I could never do something else. That's right. My framework is, we have a lot of, we have a lot of independence. Yeah it's, it's sent that way. Don't tell anybody. You're already after us. But I want to go back to the, the first business, the cookie baking over you, and what kind of cookies were you baking? I was in middle school, and my dad actually taught me how to bake, and I still use his like kitchen aid that he bought. We use it in the shop. And I just started baking cakes and cookies with him, and so the first cookies were probably just like a chocolate chip cookie, and then I would get a little fancy with like brown butter chocolate chip cookie. Yeah. And that was probably in middle school. Also, you were really born to this life. Yeah. I love that. And I have a lot of family members that are entrepreneurs. My grandpa was an entrepreneur, and Kenya, he had a hotel, he had an auto shop business. All my aunts have like their own farms, and sell their, their produce to like friends and family members. She is in your blood. It is. Yeah. Don't tell me what to do. I love that. So you have decided leaving the cookies behind. We are making ice cream. So tell us before you get talk about your ice cream, what was it like to, do you remember the first time you ever tasted ice cream, or where, or your earliest memory of ice cream? New yet the first time, but yeah. I have a really old picture of me on the floor eating ice cream. Maybe I'm like three years old, and I don't necessarily remember it, but I think about that picture a lot, and think about how that I didn't realize like I would be dealing with ice cream every single day, like I am now. But there was kind of little hints throughout my life. Like I think when I was in, as early as elementary school, I had a best friend named Katie, and I was always going to her house. It was like the cool house that me and my friends wanted to go to. And they always had ice cream in the freezer, which was so different from my house, because we were an ingredient household, and I lived, my mom was a nutritionist. And so we had no snacks. If you wanted to eat anything, you had to make it from scratch. And there were no sweet treats or anything. So going to Katie's house was like I was in the supermarket, and I could have whatever I wanted. And then there would always be ice cream. And if there wasn't, her dad would take us to Walmart. And he was, he like reluctantly would take us, and then we would all get so excited. And he'd say, well, you're only getting one thing, and you have to share. And then we'd get there. And he's like, okay, everybody can get their own thing. So it was, yeah, exactly. And so that was my first experience of having my own pint to myself, like eating ice cream regularly. And it was just such an indulgent, like memorable experience for me that I still think about. And I feel like that fueled my love for ice cream, because it just kept going from there. Oh, my goodness. I love that. I don't know if anyone else does that your own pint, but also in the bed. While you're streaming something if you want it, but with the homemade cookies that are warm, I make a bunch of cookies. I make a batch and keep it freezer, and then take out, I was like, that what they're always, you know, fresh. I know. So you work and I like that. Yes. Try that. Love a freezer cookie. You got to have them in there. You know, bring them out, bring them out, but bring them out as the dough. Yes, exactly. Yes. But that's also a way to heart disease. Anyway, so, that can happen too. But I have always loved ice cream. I remember eating it on my family's dining room table. It was a very rare precious treat. When a parents brought home, especially about home entire gallon of carrots was a famous one in San Francisco in the 70s. So do you have a favorite flavor of ice cream? Um, in general, probably coffee. Yes. And sometimes chocolate chip cookie dough because that's what I would eat when I would go over to Katie's house. So it's nostalgic. Yes. And I think coffee because that was like the first, um, ice cream that my aunt gave me. Like when I was at her house, she let me have a nibble of her coffee ice cream. And that just wasn't normal for us. We didn't have ice cream in my house normally. Coffee was the gateway. Yes. It's such a, um, fancy flavor. I love coffee mixed with salty caramel. Yes. And a nice vanilla. People, I tell my students all the time, all the time, vanilla is a flavor. It's not plain. Put it in your pasta and see how it all plain it is. Um, but, um, so what's your favorite flavor to make? And how do you make your ice cream? Um, I think my favorite flavor to make would be right now, Pandan, um, which is an herb used in Southeast Asian cuisine. It's like a leaf. Um, and it has like a natural nutty coconut slightly like toasted bread or almond notes to it. It's hard to describe and it's also subtle at the same time. But it has such like a unique flavor that pairs well with so many different things. That does sound good. Yeah. It's a good descriptor right there. Thank you. Yeah. So Chi, as we mentioned earlier, our students have found love fats on their own as a place they want to know more about and more about use and entrepreneur. So, um, we actually know a little bit about you from their work. So we know a little bit about the story. But can you tell our listeners, how did you decide to start love fats? Yeah. So I didn't anticipate starting an ice cream business at all. Um, I had just graduated was working in a clinical therapy office nearby, um, called New Life Institute. Um, and I was the office manager. It was just like an 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. job. So I had lots of time after. Um, and I didn't really know. I knew that I didn't want to stay at New Life, but I didn't really know what else I wanted to do. And my mom had like a sudden like skin allergy that they weren't able to diagnose. And so they told her to switch up the different foods that she was eating. Um, and my mom has been doing that since we were kids like switching up things that she heard were bad for her and things that would be better for us to eat. So she was used to like a diet adjustment. But, um, Kenyans, we drink a lot of chai and with whole milk because because we have- a lot of cows. So there's lots of dairy, just dairy consumption within our chai, not really in the rest of our food. So that was the hardest thing for her to take out of her diet was the dairy and just like watching my mom like kind of suffer and not having something that's like her joy throughout her day is a cup of chai. So I was just looking for something I guess that brought me joy and not necessarily my mom. She wasn't really a sweet person, but I just wanted to share something that I really love with her especially since her birthday was coming up. And we're not really like I said a sweet household. So I knew it couldn't be too sweet and it needed to be dairy free and my issue with dairy free products especially ice cream is the texture. I'm a really big textural eater and they are too icy or they taste just like the milk that was used. Like you just taste almond milk, you taste no other flavor. So I was looking for other fats to incorporate into the ice cream and one of my mom's favorite fruits is an avocado. She eats one like every single day. So I figured let me add that. It's a good fat and it pairs really well with coconut milk. So we use a combo of coconut milk, avocado, some cocoa butter and like avocado oil to help add in fats and like create a really luxurious texture. That's fascinating and I'm actually interested in hearing more about this because as a tropical derived person my mom loves avocados and I can't stand them. So is the avocado prominent or is it kind of like avocado oils fine. I have no problem with that. But avocados themselves, the texture is kind of off for me. So do you taste avocado when you have love fats? You don't. I don't think so because I don't think avocado has that much of a flavor. And really I think people don't like it because of the texture. And you know sometimes if you pick a bad one like it can put you off. At this way. Yeah. And also I know some people have an allergy with it too. I hear that where if it's raw it affects their stomach. But if it's cooked down it'll it's okay. And we heat up our base and then we add it. So it kind of gets warm and potentially won't have a stomach issue because of that. Yeah. I'm convinced. Yes. So we want to ask you about Santi. Yes. Santi. Santi's our corgi. Yeah our dog actually just had a birthday. He just turned seven. Yes. And he's like our little shop mascot. Yeah. I think people were like do you actually have a corgi? And I'm like yeah we do have a corgi. They're like well I just thought it was part of the branding. I'm like no he's our little little mascot. It's really him. Yes. Do you have a dog when you're growing up? I didn't. No. I'm I just we always one and one me and my sister. Yeah. So he's like our family dog now. Oh I love that. So do you consider yourself a dog mom or a dog aunt or dog? Yeah. I guess a mom. Yes, sure. I love it. And how often does Santi hang out? Very rarely. Like my mom will bring him but he just has so much hair that I'm and we're just like window service. So I'm like you can't come in here. Like if you want to hang out you can hang outside like let people outside let people see you. Yeah but she'll stop by sometimes at the shop with him. That's so interesting because I think one thing that kind of came to my mind is that you said you always want a dog and now you have one. So did you have like a no dogs in the house when you were younger and like when you got older got a dog. How did that? No. We didn't have like a no dogs in the house rule. Like I don't know. I just I think our parents knew that we wouldn't take care. Like we wouldn't have the time and they wouldn't have the time or energy to take care of one. And I we kind of had one because we had a situation where my mom just brought home a puppy and my dad was like what's going on? Like she just randomly brought home this dog and we had the dog for maybe a week and then came back from school one day dog was gone. Like my my dad had taken it back or my mom my dad decided to take it back because it was going to get too big and we like lived in a duplex at the time. So didn't really like grow up with one but all my friends had one. So I think I was just like envious of my friends that had dogs. There might be some in my house who has a very similar passion which I'm trying to figure out how to navigate. Yes, get the dog. Yes, I agree. I get the dog. Yeah, the persuasion is is pretty effective. So, Santis also like you said earlier, Santi is featured on the graphics around love fat. So how did you meet Santi? Like how did that happen? My mom worked at this woman for years and years. She worked for the state and her sister has corgis and I think like maybe like six years ago my mom was just like hey I want I want a dog like I don't want to be in the house all by myself and talked to her friend her friend was like well what kind of dog do you want? And she asked me and my sister and I was like I want a corgis because down the street from us when I was a kid these people had a corgis. I thought it was the cutest dog but hanging out and being around a corgis is different from living with a corgis. It's one of those breeds that you need to you need to do your research before you get one because they have a lot of personality and they're technically like a working dog. So you need to like walk them to like manage their way and there's just a lot like any other dog but especially with them. Interesting. Yes. Yeah, talk to me a little bit about your philosophy about pets and business because I'm apparently you know santi and other dogs show up on your Instagram. So did you. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about that works. I think just because we have a walk up window like a lot of people in the neighborhood will walk up with their pets and from I think for me like I'm not really a people person. I don't come off like that. I'm very introverted but people don't think so especially with my marketing. It seems like I'm an extrovert and so for me when people come with their dogs I'm like okay I can pay attention to your dog instead of just like having to focus in on you and also it's just like I it we're an Austin like people love dogs and if I put it on the feed like people are gonna eat it up you know ice cream and dogs like yes like it's a great combo for this city but yeah I'm not I'm also like very much like mindful of the cleanliness and dogs and like especially dogs with a lot of hair like my dog. I'm like yeah you're not coming in at all like I let roll myself before I like put my apron on and like make sure I'm free of as much hair as possible because I'm that's that's not for me. You are saying all the right things. Yes. I am such a fan of the poodle and laver. Yes. They're really smart. Yes. They are. Yes. Especially standards because that's so tiny if they're yet be happy. Yes. Although dogs too. People who are listening. We have a all-dog policy. Yes. We're friends of all. So let's talk about the location of love fats. In fact I drove by your place yesterday trying to avoid traffic on the highways but it's near the Crestview Rail Station. Yes. What do you like about the location? What's appealing about having your business there? I think that it's recently they've been developing it a lot and that has been helpful like having a business in there but also it still has that like old-timey Austin field to it where there's still some things that you know have been there for years and years and that's really comforting and then I think just I kind of happened on to that space. It wasn't like I was looking for this in the specific area but it's also like the demographic. It's like around like people my age and like new people that have just moved here that are looking to try new businesses. So I feel like it has like a lot of curious people like especially recently we've been getting a lot of new customers that have just moved down the street and I'm I mean I'm not like the biggest fan of all the high-rises in that area but I mean it does bring some like new clientele for us. And how long have you been in that location? It's a little over two years it'll be three in May. Okay. Congratulations. Thank you. That's success. Yes. I do think about sort of you know I remember when we started the Metro Rail and Crestview kind of popped up I'm like is that a thing like Crestview? So what has it been like to see that neighborhood and that community kind of development? Yeah that whole area confuses me because I used to live there and I'm like is it Crestview? Is it Highland? Like what area is this? Like exactly where I'm at? But I used to live off Justin with my sister at some really old apartments and the area was nice like there wasn't much like I guess in terms of like a restaurant to go to like where you hang out with there was kind of just like like a bar. So there's been like some more development with like food places and like coffee shops and stuff like that. But I really like that neighborhood. I really enjoy that part of Austin. It would be ideal to like still live in that area but I live very far south. But I love having the shop in that area. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about we've mentioned already that by the way folks if you haven't and please look at [BLANK_AUDIO] She's Instagram because it's fantastic and it's very exciting and colorful. The hot pink colors are really great. And just seeing Sandy is a part of the iconography. Who designed that? Who designed your graphics on your store and all the stuffy stuffy stuffy stuffy stuffy stuff? I remember my mom being like, "Why are you wasting money on the exterior right now? And when I tell people that it's the pink building on the corner, you can't miss it. But the branding, I just want to, again, something that would stand out, that people noticed. And I love pink, so I'm like, let me just go with that. I think our students, when they presented, they all kind of incorporated that. So it was one of the more colorful presentations I remember because of the pink. Absolutely. We have to shout out to the students of Black Lives Matters that you are being lauded today. We are paying attention to you. Absolutely. So before you were the owner of Love Fats, you were a yoga instructor. Yes. I'm technically still a yoga instructor. I just don't teach actively right now. Yes. Yes. It would be nice to get back to it. Um, I've been thinking about that recently. I used to code teach with my sister, um, but my sister moved to Kenya. And so, yeah, I think partly I just, um, I just miss teaching with her. So I'm like, hesitant to go back to it. But I think I'm like, I'm ready and confident to do it without her. And maybe it'll like be a good way to remember her, you know? Absolutely. And there are people who are anxiously awaiting their first yoga session to learn how to do it. I'm a baby yogi. I've been doing it for years, but um, still consider myself an absolute beginner. And I love having a beginner mind. Yes. Um, but um, why did you pick Hatha over other forms? Uh, um, yeah. So I, I actually got into yoga from my, my mom and then my mom, my sister got my mom into it. So they were all, um, doing yoga and like Pilates before me, um, and it took me a little bit longer, um, mainly because a lot of the yoga classes I would go to were, um, not Hatha yoga. It would be like, um, a hybrid yoga, like, um, maybe like a stanga or vinyasa. There's just so many vinyasa classes in the city. And I'm just not really a fan. It's too quick that like one breath movement. And I just feel like you're potentially going to get hurt, um, or it's you stop breathing, like mid practice because you're just trying to keep up. And you're just trying to like look good in front of everybody else and like, prove a point when that's just not really the, the point of yoga at all. And I wanted, I wanted to go to yoga. I didn't want to go to aerobics or like, uh, hit workout. Like that's just not what I was looking for for my practice. Um, and I think also there was the two spots left in the teacher training that me and my sister did and they like did a buddy like discount. Like if you brought someone, you get a discount. So kind of just we were just like, oh, sweet. Let's go with this. Um, and I'm glad that I like went to the place, um, that I did Dharma yoga to get my teacher's certificate. I feel like it was, um, a good experience for me and my sister. What do you find is the most challenging thing about teaching yoga? Um, in this city for me, it is that a lot of the students, um, do not look like me. Um, it's a lot of like, um, there's a lot of like middle age white women and like, I, I want everybody to do yoga. It's not just for a certain type of person. And so I actually started teaching so that I could teach more like black and brown people yoga, um, but unfortunately like, there's not that many studios where it's like a black own studio or like a lot of the students are black and brown. So I ended up teaching in like a lot of these studios that were, um, they had a certain demographic coming to their classes. Um, and that's fine. Like it was great as a teacher. I was beginning my practice teaching. And so I kind of just wanted to get my foot into the door, um, but I just also wanted to like show like, especially like young black people like, this isn't just for white people, you know, this is for everybody. And it's actually very helpful. And it's really just a different form of stretching. Like you don't have to think of it as you're going to be doing headstands and you're going to be immediately getting into warrior three and half moon. It's not, we don't have to do all of that. You know, we can sit cross-legged and stretch our arms, stretch our neck and it can be relaxing and enjoyable, you know? Oh my goodness. I love this. So I'm going to get her back into the yoga studio with a special group thing. I think our, our producer is a yoga teacher as well. Nice. And maybe even some of our hosts are married to yoga instructor types. To look at them and say, why aren't you doing it? Yeah. Your posture is problematic. But. Well, one last last question though, but do you apply any of the principles from, you get from yoga to your daily work and love that? Definitely, especially the breath work. I have to remind myself a lot at the shop, like you're holding your breath or like one's the last time like you took a moment to like sit, not necessarily meditation, but just to sit and think about what I'm going to do before I actually do it. I have the tendency to just walk into the shop and I'm like, I have all these things that I, like in my head that I need to get done and I'm not really like being present in any of them. So kind of reminding myself to like slow down, which is a big thing in Hatha yoga, like you sit in a posture for five to eight breaths. So sometimes I'm like, take your time to do something. There is no rush. So there's a lot of like similarities within making ice cream and like my practice. So what does ice cream and yoga have in common? So when I started my business, the end goal for me was I wanted to have a yoga studio and an ice cream shop and like a little cafe at the front, yoga studio in the back. I thought that that would be a really cute, cool business model. So this is phase one. Yeah. So we're not there yet, but hopefully soon that that is a possibility. And there was like a yoga studio in town that had like a gluten free coffee cafe shop. I thought that was like very cute. I'm like, I want to do something like that in the future. You may have angel investors that would be so nice. I think about ice cream, the process, watching the videos you have there, or it's very relaxing to watch the churning and everything. So how long does it take for you to make a batch of ice cream? Does it depend on the flavor? No, of course, do you have to divulge any company secrets, but just giving us a little behind the scenes information. Technically two days, but if we like, that's like breaking it on the whole process because I have to make the base. And at first, I was letting the base mature in the fridge and then we would churn it and then it has to harden and then you can eat it. But now I don't let it mature. I just after it's chilled will churn it and then after it's churned, we'll pack it whether it's into a pint or a container we're going to scoop out of. It still has to harden and then we can serve the ice cream. So sometimes people will hit me up same day and be like, I need something for this evening or I need an ice cream cake for this evening, I'm like, that is not a possibility, that is not how this works at all. Maybe if I've already made something and it's already ready in the freezer, I could do that, but it does, it is a process and it's not something I thought about when I first started making ice cream because I started at the farmers market and I was in a commercial kitchen. And some days I would just be sitting in there thinking, why didn't I make something that's quicker like, why am I not making like tea or something that these people come into their kitchen and they leave like three hours later, I'm in here for like five hours at a time. So right now, it takes like five hours for me to make like two different flavors, two different batches, kind of from start to finish and I can't even eat it yet, it still like has to harden. So overnight. It makes us feel good as consumers that it takes that much time and that's actually kind of a great to know that it takes a lot of time to pull together. Yeah, so on that very point, now I'm fascinated because I don't know, I kind of envision that maybe you have a couple of flavors, but how many flavors do you have in rotation at a time that look that we have around eight in the case at a time. So eight that you could choose to scoop from and then we try to have at least four different flavors by the pint that you can take home with you as well. It just varies because honestly, I'm the only one that makes, perhaps the ice cream and churns the ice cream for the most part right now, yes. So you mentioned to us one of your favorite flavors, but I'm curious just by volume and interest, what are the hot flavors of what are people like, yo, make some more of this? Lavender, Cogies and Cream is our most popular flavor. Lavender. That sounds amazing. That does. It sounds healthy too. It's healthy-ish, that's what I tell people because people here are avocado, coconut milk, they're like, oh, this is good for me and I'm like, they're sugar in it. They're still sugar. So I wouldn't say it's healthy, but I mean it's a little bit better for you. Yeah, not by much though. And so lavender cookie cream which sounds amazing. What other flavors are the ones that people are just like? Chocolate chai, banana pudding, and pandan chocolate chip is popular. And any match of flavor that we make is always very popular and ube black sesame. Ooh, interesting. And what's your mom's favorite flavor? My mom's is probably chai, anything with chai. I thought so. I love it. And she loves the. She does like a matcha or like a. Yeah, like matcha or anything like subtle, like the plain avocado I used to make that too. She really liked that one. Mm-hmm. So I have to ask on a personal note of preference, do you have any strawberry or blueberry type vibes, anything like that? Definitely, yes. I do. I'll wait till it's strawberry season and get some from the market or somewhere local and make a strawberry ice cream. We also do a pandan strawberry as well, which is really popular. I like to use the fresh fruit as a swirl and what's in season, yes. Instead of just making it one whole flavor. Because I do love strawberry ice cream, so many people love strawberry ice cream and ask me about it. But sometimes I find it's hard when you're working with fruit to mask the coconut flavor. So instead of making it the base of a flavor, I'll make it like a swirl or like incorporate it in a different way. Okay. How long did it take you to perfect the recipe for your ice cream? I'd say two years. And I was still like making it and selling it while I was perfecting it. But I do feel like it took me two years to be like, this is how I want it to be. And I still make little tweaks because it ice cream is very temperamental and it is affected by the temperature, like the weather, the temperature of the shop, so many different things. Yeah, it's very, it's like a science and something that you have to like put in lots of time and effort into and be intentional, like the way you're stirring it and the way you incorporate things, especially with dairy-free ice cream. Because you're adding in a lot of fats for the texture, so you have to emulsify things a lot longer and like be mindful of that. This is not for the, for the podcast, but I think, you know, black people's hair. Yes, you know, it's like you can't just, you know, this is how we do it. No, you guys slow down. Yes. It's going fine. Yes, definitely. It depends on, you be in one plane in Chicago, you fly out to the Netherlands and now you got a whole situation. That's so true. Yes. So you could have an ice cream shop and a hair salon. Definitely. But you got me, I was thinking a lot about, I used to have logs back in the day and you all got me wanting to give out logs back. Yeah. Let's come out of this. Let me get back into it. It's never too late. I'm back 20 years. I can, like, come 20 years ago. Oh, well, yeah, my mom cut hers too. 20 years ago. Oh, I can't believe it. Maybe longer. Did you keep your time? I have mine in the bag. No, I, I, I, ritual. I also came in my hair when I cut it off. I ain't wanting anybody to get it. So I took care of it myself. Oh, my God. Okay. So, um, I think I've already said this already, but how I'm mesmerized by the videos on your Instagram feed. Um, I understand the vanilla bug eyes back in the case. Is that true? It was. I think they ate it all up this weekend. Yeah, I got to make some more. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, that's also one of our most popular flavors. Um, and people will come up to me. They're like, are you from Ohio? I'm like, no. It's like something I had as a kid when I would, we'd go to soccer parties at during Christmas time and we all had to bring something and someone would bring bug eyes that like their grandma or their mom had made with them. And I just remember that at like the texture, I was like, I've never had something like this. And then as I just thought about it later on when I started making ice cream. I'm like, that's perfect to incorporate into ice cream. Wow. Well, you got to pardon my ignorance because I think I just now learned that bug eyes are edible. Because I thought, I thought they were like conquerors and like conquered is a conqueror is like an England. We used to have these things called conqueror fights. And they're like these nuts that fall from the tree and using them. I think it's both. I think you're right. You can't eat those. But then people would make this like dessert. Oh, great. That's like peanut butter, butter, like softened butter and some sea salt and I think vanilla. Okay. And you add powdered sugar. You form it into a ball and then you dip it into chocolate and it looks like an eye. There's like a little part of it that you can see the peanut butter through the rest is a chocolate shell. Okay, it's not the, okay. Yes. Thank you for clarifying that. Absolutely. Oh, that sounds amazing. With some teeth trying to eat. Yeah. Sounds. I want to know, is there some flavor you're dying to try to make? And is there one you regret making? I think I think I'm dying to make chocolate chip cookie dough because it was one of my favorite flavors as a kid. Yes. But it's also one of those things that I'm afraid to make because if it's not perfect, like the way I envision it in my head, it's going to bother me. But I also have to tell myself that I'm not making ice cream for myself. Like I'm making ice cream for the customers and be mindful. Like that is something that people would love. So maybe I should just go ahead and do it. That and mango sticky rice I've been dying to make in the ice cream form. And something I regret making. I kind of regret making banana pudding because the way people harass me for this flavor. I just, it's like constant. But I'm glad I did. Like I'm glad it's such a popular flavor, but it also just takes so much work and like energy. I feel like that with the soy sauce as well too, we made a soy sauce ice cream for a fermentation festival. And it's also one of those things that people will randomly ask me for. And I'm just like, I don't want to make a whole batch because are you all going to eat it? Is it going to, is it going to move slowly? But then when I do make it, people love it. And it has like a burnt honey, burnt caramel kind of flavor to it. Oh my god. I am fascinated with this. The concept. Why do we have this interview when it's not open? That's the problem. I'm just trying to work with that. I'm trying to, yeah. Oh my goodness. Oh my god. Your answer was very interesting too, because I thought you were going to say something you didn't like, but like toothpaste and gravel for instance. Right. But like these are dope flavors that are just hard to make or very popular. That's very interesting. Yeah. Note to self, do not bring up the banana pudding. Don't roll up that with your chest hook out. Banana pudding. You know what you got? I want to stay friends, so I want to bring it. It's just how fatting is ice cream. But yeah, that's okay. I know I can eat entire gallon. You don't have this. How many points does it take to make a gallon? You asked me math and the ability to come on. I know. Even me, I'm like, wait, let me think. No. I'm not, you aren't thinking about that. You hear ice cream. You're just going to enjoy yourself. You should. I'm not thinking about that. So we looked at it interview. You did with ATX woman. And it said you started love fats without taking out loans or any credit cards. Yes. I actually still don't have a credit card. What? Since I don't have any credit, it's also like I can't get a loan easily. It's not really possible for me. Like from a bank, like a traditional loan. I just, I still had my office manager job and I started small. I just kept growing really, really small. And that was very intentional. And even the shop I didn't want to be in a shop yet. I kind of was just like given like a soft push. Like, hey, I need the space that you're in now. I think you should like use this other space that's available. And so I just would still working. And then I got like a couple of grants at the first, the first few years of owning the business. And I would take out like, I've taken out a couple of square loans recently. But otherwise, and then I had like a family friend loan me some money to start the shop. So that was really helpful. But it's still a struggle. You know, it's still like, I won't buy certain things until I've made a certain amount of sales because I'm just waiting for cash flow. Right. And that is very difficult as a small business. But I just that that was kind of my only option. Well, that's I hear a lot of people talking about entrepreneurial ideas. And they kind of get stuck in that phase where they don't know what to do because they can't accrue the capital. So what lessons do you have you learned? And what advice would you give for folks who are starting out? I think well, don't be so quick to get like just leave your job and to start your passion. Because I do think that everybody should be doing what they want to do and what makes them happy definitely. But I think that with society, we have this mentality of like, people aren't going to take me seriously. If I'm not 100% in my business doing just my business. But the reality is is like, you shouldn't really be worried about that. And that like income from another job that you're working is very helpful. You know, like if I was still working a job, I could buy more cups. You know, I could buy more pine set of time. And it's also just like, you have the time in your schedule most of the time to like maybe work a shift or two somewhere else. So if that's possible, definitely do that and for as long as you can. And then also I was a little, I was really reluctant to ask family friends that I knew had money and that would be open to like investing in my business. I feel like I waited way too long to do that. But if you are really close to people and you have somebody that you know would be able to offer you that and you can come to an agreement, I'd definitely take people up on that. Don't be afraid to ask how I was. Yeah. - Wow, that's a very different approach than I typically heard. The idea of staying with the thing that works so you can have the capital to do things you need to do versus I'm all in. - Yeah. - Great. - Well, I mean, I did that. Like I think I left my office manager job way too early and not I think I know I did. Just 'cause I was working with a bunch of old people and I was having to like corral them and it was very outdated and it was like no one wanted to move on to newer stuff. And so that was a huge issue for me that just kind of like made me like I'm gonna leave and I did regret it, you know? And I know business owners like that are older than me and that still work another like job, maybe one or two days a week so that they can like afford stuff for themselves, stuff for their business, you know? I just don't think there's any shame in that. It's just you see a lot of these like successful business owners around town and that's all that they do. But also you don't even know if that's their money or if that's mom and dad's money or if they probably have investors because a lot of these businesses are restaurant groups. You know, so you're not them, you have to kind of just do your own thing, yeah? - Well, likely the thing you've done though 'cause you're very independent. You don't have 'cause those angel investors also have opinions and when I shave and you know, you can just do some stuff that has dairy in it, come on. - Exactly, yeah. - Diversify. - Right, yeah. - Yeah, so I think you're doing great. - Thank you. - What do I know, what I think I'm proud of you? And it's asked you about what you learned from being an entrepreneur and if you felt like college prepared you in some ways for this journey. - I think yes and no, college prepared me. I never liked school, I graduated high school early 'cause I just wasn't a fan of it. And that's also 'cause I'm such an introvert and I just wasn't, I didn't wanna be around those people anymore. And so when I went to college it was kind of that same energy. I was like, I don't really wanna be here. I'm dragging my feet and it got a little better once I got to St. Ed's. But even then I was just, as like two years into my business I'm like, I could have done this instead of going to college. I just kind of went to college to make my parents happy. And I mean, I did learn a lot of things and I think definitely getting a psychology degree. I use that daily when I'm talking to people, you know, when I'm like interacting with people and like myself. So it gets used but I don't think it was mandatory either or I at least wish I had gone to ACC a little bit longer and then went to St. Ed Words. - And I love that discussion because I think a lot of times, first of all, you're living proof that you don't have to have a degree in business to start a business. - Right, successful business for three years. - And also that you are drawing from things you learned in your psychology degree that apply to what you do. So I think sometimes, and I think Dr. Thompson I might have similar opinions. A lot of our students come in with a very, well, A equals B. And so I've got to do this thing to get to this point. It's more like, whatever you end up doing you're going to end up using those skills in whatever context you're in. - Definitely, yeah. And I took one entrepreneurial class at the end of school. I think it was like my last semester. And that was really helpful for me. I still remember some things. They even brought in the owner of KC's to talk to us. So I think that it's important, but it's not necessary for you to just like, if you want to start a business, you have to be a business major. I don't think it's that. And also with what I've gone through like within my business, nothing is one plus one equals to like everything is what I expected it to be, things switched up. Like things are still changing up for me actually right now. So I think you're still confident and you're executing your plan. - Yeah. - You should be very proud of yourself. - Thank you. I appreciate that. It's always really nice to hear that because I am just really hard on myself. And so I just like nice to hear a reminder of like, yeah, you know, you're doing something that like a lot of people like couldn't do or don't want to do, you know? - Or want to do and try. - Yeah. - Did it and did it. - Yes. (laughing) - So, you know, I'm impressed. I wanted to ask about some, you know, your family. So my son is what my Acer Ray calls a African-American. His mother is African-American. His father is Nigerian. - Yes. - Odo Vimey. So please talk to us about growing up in a Kenyan Nigerian household. - And that was like in Austin, yeah. - Yeah. So a lot of people they're like, oh, you're born here and I'm like, I was born here. I don't necessarily say I'm like from here. Like yes, I was born here. But I'm also like an American in an African household, first of all. So it's very different. It was very different from the jump and like being around my friends at a young age, I realized how different it was. And I'm really appreciative of that. And the fact that my mom was so intentional about us always going back to Kenya every summer and me getting to be around my family and her just as much as she could, like reminding us of our culture. And same with like my dad and I didn't get as much like knowledge and information about our culture from my dad. But my dad was always like Nigerian dad where it's like, yeah, your mom's Kenyan, but y'all are Nigerian kids. And me and my sister were like, we're Kenyan and Nigerian. He's like, no, no, no, your dad's Nigerian. So you're Nigerian. We're like, okay, sure, sure, sure. Either way, I'm happy to be an African child. But like the way that like African parents raise you is very different from like your American friends. Like very strict, like lots of respect. And I'm, I really appreciate that because I have that respect for like elders and just people in general that I don't think Americans and still in their kids as much. And so yeah, it was, it's like difficult when I would go into other people's homes as a kid 'cause I was the kid that as soon as I walked into the house, like I had to say hello to the parents because that's just what you do. You speak to them? - The house. - Yes, exactly. But my friends would come over and wouldn't say anything to my parents and I'd be like, let's just nip this in the butt. And yeah, my dad would do that. So who was this in my house? And I'm like, okay, let's not make them uncomfortable, but I get your point. It is disrespectful, you know? So I'm glad I was brought up like that. And I'm glad that I have respect for my Kenyan and Nigerian culture and I love that about myself. But yeah, it is hard just being African in America, you know? - You know, we could go very controversial and ask a question about Joel Fryce. - It's. - Which one? - You probably shouldn't do that. We're going to. - Yeah, she's being educated. - I mean, it's obviously going to be Nigerian. - Okay, that's fine. Well, it's funny you say it because I'm from my mom's Jamaican. So immigrant parents and also folks who grew up who are black from other places. Quite some other kinds of things. Like, I remember the first time somebody came in the house and we didn't bring people the house very often. - No. - But somebody came in the house and went to the fridge. - Ooh. (laughing) - It was just like. - No, that's this blood period. - I'm going to just help you right here. Like, let's not do that. Like, you're welcome, but we'll get stuff for you. - Right. - Like, that's when you get married when the family you could do that. - Exactly. - Yeah, maybe after a couple of years of being married. - It might take a little while. (laughing) - I noticed that too when I was younger. Like, it always felt like odd for me to go to someone's fridge without them. But my friends would be like, "Just go. "Why are you even asking me?" And I'm like, "Are you sure?" Like asking multiple times, like, "Are you, you don't want to come with me?" (laughing) - No, no, no, not me. African-American and no, never. - But parent, no. - Or touching my bed. Like, you can sit in the bed, but do not touch anything that put my, like, I don't know where you've been. - And why do you have your shoes on? - Okay, no, they're right. (laughing) - Okay, we're gonna, we can complete all this out, right? (laughing) Like, I mean, it's just, like, I mean, okay, I don't know if you can keep this or that, but watching videos about African dads, African moms, I'm like, "How seedy lies, then?" - No, exactly. As a kid, I didn't understand, but now as an adult, I'm like, I totally get it. You know, it just makes sense. And especially like the outside shoes and the outside clothes, was a big thing for my parents and like, or like, being outside and not wearing shoes and then coming inside. Like, my dad hated that. He was like, "So you're just tracking "in all your dirty feet into my house?" I'm like, "Yeah." - Yeah, I get it now. (laughing) - That translates across continents. - Yes. - Like, what is that? - Tracking dirt from the outside. That's a very familiar phrase for me. - Yes. - Yes. - Oh my goodness. So I couldn't ask that. I'm already so proud I am of you, but I want you to think about your 50-year-old self. And what do you want her to feel about the choices you've made in this half of your life, this part of your life? - I think, like I mentioned earlier, I just want to feel proud of myself because I do hear other people say it. And I think it's hard for me 'cause I don't necessarily hear it from the people that I want to hear it from. And so that's the main issue for me. me and I it's hard for me to believe it even when I do hear it. So I just want to be like grateful and proud that I like took the leap and like did what I wanted to do and what what made me happy, you know, because as a kid I didn't necessarily know what I wanted to do and even as a young adult, I was like, what am I going to do? I felt like I was around people that were so sure in what they wanted to do and where they wanted to go and I just wasn't that person. I was like very confident in myself and my ability to do things. I was just like, what is that going to be? So I think I just want to be proud that I like I didn't choose the path that everybody else was was doing and going for and I didn't take the easy route to just like work in an office or do a tech or some some type of job that like I know my dad would have loved for me to do. The stereotypical Nigerian job, you know, like be a doctor, be an engineer, there we go, be in tech, and I actually like was able to be successful and something that wasn't that. So just being proud and like myself and like what I'm capable of. Well, I hope this is one that you can take away because as Lisa said earlier, our students research independently. We don't give them any guidance, but they are always inspired by your story and your trajectory. And we were talking about first year students who were 18. Sometimes we have students who are a little older, but your your story is very compelling to them because it's both about, oh, this is a really cool thing. Love fats, but it's also this story that she has is amazing. And so I hope you understand that that's something that's really impactful. They see that. Like they do their work. They look at the social media and like I can't believe she did all these different things. So not just the elders looking at you like this is also your peers. Yes. And that makes that makes me feel really great, honestly, because sometimes it does feel like I don't really get any recognition. And so that is a little hard, but also I'm like you have so many people that love you and your product. So does it really matter in the grand scheme of things, you know? Like I sometimes have to remind myself like just be happy. Like you have customers and you have regular customers and you have people that like your product. I'm like that's enough for me. So I have to ask our favorite question, which is how we and most of our interviews, which is where do you feel most authentically black and Austin? It can be metaphysical. It could be actual place. Okay. Well, that's a good question. I think like for me, it was when I when I used to do like a lot of pop-up events that were like created and like created by black people, black artists, black makers. And the clientele was mainly black customers. And just being from here, like I know that there are still a lot of black people in the city, even though there's less and less, but I know that they're still here. We're just like hidden in different pockets. So for me, it was like those events like really reminded me of like yes, there are other people in the city that are like you and that are here to support you and that you can also support. So like markets like that, like black makers market, like was really helpful when I first started. And I feel like there are less and less spots that I'm like frequenting or that have gone away. But yeah. And I think also just like at the shop too, because like a lot of my customers come to me. And so anytime I like see black customers, I get like overly excited. I'm like I don't want you to think I'm weird. I just I don't see enough of us. It's just exciting to like that they're able to like have a place to like come to and like buy something from a black owned business. And I feel supported by, you know, my community, especially like the black people. So yeah. No, I'm just so happy you came to talk to us here of black custom matters. And I think we're going to take some time to show you some of the power points we can find them. The students did about you. Yeah, I'd love to see them. Yes, I'm so happy to be here. It was really nice chatting with you. Chief, I want to thank you for taking the time to step in with us and talk to us about love fats in your journey. It's been a real pleasure to have you here. It was a real treat. Thank you for coming. That was owner and founder of love fats, tea, indican. Black Austin matters is a listener supported production of KUT and KUTX studios in Austin, Texas. You can support our work by becoming a sustaining member at supportthispodcast.org. Black Austin Matters is a production of KUT and KUTX studios. It's hosted by me, Richard J. Reddick and me, this will be Thompson. Black Austin Matters is produced and edited by our amazing executive producer, Miles Bloxson. Sarah Kinney helped with research, editing and production. The music you're listening to was created by the talented Geron Marshall. For more about Black Austin Matters, visit KUT.org or wherever you get your podcasts.