CHEL DIOKNO | Unshaken with Gary V | Episode 18

Hey everyone, I'm Gary Valenciano and this is Unshaken Stories of Critten Grace, all put together for this podcast. I felt that at this point in time of my life, it would be clear to do something like this not just on my own, but with people that somehow have had an impact on me. Hey everyone, I want to welcome you all back to Unshaken, the stories of Critten Grace. Before we go into anything else, I just want to invite you all and I haven't really done much of this and all the other episodes, but we are trying to build the community with every episode. So do follow us on socials and like, comment, share and subscribe because it helps all of us. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm very, very careful about who I actually have here as a guest in Unshaken, but I'm interested to find out what stories this person has to share. What's nice about it is that there's no agenda in this, it's just stories from the person and not the politician. Ladies and gentlemen, I have with me Congressman Shell Jogno. Sir, it's an honor to have you here. Oh, it's so great to be here and thank you so much for having me. You are one person because everybody goes through moments of shaking on a very personal level. You also saw a very national level. Well, before anything else, Congressman, would you want to just go ahead and greet everybody that's watching right now? Hello, hello everyone and I'm so happy to be here. I think I have a lot to share if you were talking about being Unshaken and the shaking moments in our lives. I can say that Marame time Iba bahagate, because Marame time had done and perhaps many of you are not aware of the internal struggles that a person like me goes through. There are a lot and they began early in my life. So it's something that I have had to really deal with throughout my journey through this earth. Well, you said early in your life and that was actually what I usually do. I try and make people see this person that they're seeing, this person that they've come to know, this person in this case who's in politics, but what was the earlier years like for you as a child? You know, the early years of my life were the anti-faces of a future politician. I was a total introvert. I lived in the world of books and in my imagination. And it was never really an ambition of mine to enter politics or to become a quote and quote very social person. My role model from a very young age was my father and I wanted to be like him. But you see the trajectory of my father's life when I was born was very different from someone who would look at him from the outside. Of course, many of you of the public know him as a senator as a later on in his life as a human rights lawyer. But when I was growing up, I was number eight out of ten children. So I never got to know him really as a senator. I really got to know him more as, first of all, a man who was jailed for his principles. And second, a man who when he was released from detention dedicated the rest of his life to helping other people. And that really struck a nerve in me. Because every since I wanted to be like him so that when he was released from detention and he became what we now call a human rights lawyer, I was so totally fascinated. Every time he would he would address for court and I would be at home I would ask him that can I go with you and I loved it. I love the atmosphere of the courtroom. I never got bored listening to this great lawyers argue and that was my life from a very early age. That's why I like to tell people when they ask me, how was your childhood? I tell them, you know, unlike many other people, I grew up inside courtrooms and jails. And that really gave me a very different perspective from a lot of people of my generation. So that is where I guess it all began really. That's when the tugging in the heart to serve began. And it's it's it's strange congressman because you said you're an introvert in anti T. C. Spangan, Guinamit, no, no, but don't cover in the punta. Knowing even at a very young age how stressful and how I mean there was no social media back then. So you could really focus on what was at hand. Not worrying about what people had to say and read it almost in real time. But still the exposure to all that I guess there will be some children that would look at it and say, and I'm not going to go through that. And here you are, you know, with the agenda to serve. And how amazing it is that it hit you and it started at that early age about how old were you then when you realized this is really what I want to do. 13 or 13 or 14 years old when my very first experience with injustice as a person really came when my dad was arrested. He was never charged with any crime. No one was ever issued for his detention. But he was put in jail for two years. And that really changed my entire perspective on life. Before that when I grew up as a very young child, we were pampered because we were children of a senator. My dad was a very successful lawyer, aside from being a senator. So, you know, I have to go and do some squalajan in Ganon Classic boy. But when he was put in jail, we lost all of that. He was the only breadwinner in the family. So, we had to learn how to make ends meet with him under detention. And that don't want to talk about the boss, don't want to talk about the Jeep. Don't want to talk about the old ordinary mom and mom. And that really opened a lot of myself to the realities of life. And when he got released from detention and really became a human rights lawyer, that's what I wanted to be. I never in my mind did I think I want to be a senator like he was before. Because he didn't want Ganon experience because of that. When I was very young, I can recall how many times I was in the United States, in the United States, in the United States. But after he was released from detention, the people who would come to our home would be Nagacinelas, farmers, students, fisher folk, priests and nuns. And I really enjoyed their company and their presence a lot more than when I was younger. And it was that kind of interaction really shaped me a lot. You know what's amazing is that at that early age, you were exposed to the different kinds of people that you could actually mingle and communicate with. Are you guys getting this? You were your ten children, ten siblings, all in all. You're the only one that got into leaning more into being who you are today. Three of us, two of my siblings became lawyers. But both of them decided to practice abroad. So I'm the only one who decided to stay and really do my work here. And it was really a challenge because when I took my law school in the States, I finished in 1986. By that time, my dad had been diagnosed with cancer. He had been undergoing a lot of treatments. And by early 1986, he wasn't, he was already in a bad way. So I had the choice at that time to stay in the US and start a practice there or go home. And because my father was sick and because I really had never planned to stay abroad for a long time, I told myself, "Go home with me." So I came home, I'm happy I decided to because I was able to stay with him for about six months or so before he passed on. But when I became a lawyer, well, I started my practice on my own. I had zero clients, I had zero staff. The only thing I inherited from my father was his small law office, which was part of the home. And some of his staff, who his messenger basically, who taught me how to file. pleadings who taught me the ins and outs of a basic practice. My client, tell from the very start, "We're not the typical businessmen, corporations, they're ordinary people." And I really liked it that way. To hear you speak this way, Tarang, it confirms at least in me that you are a people's man. I see that if people need somebody who is true to his word and true to what he believes in and true to fighting for what is right for others, that would be you. But you know, Garid, it was a very difficult internally for me because, yeah, I said, "I told you I'm an interpret." I should even speaking out on behalf of my clients, coming out in public, fighting for them, was a very big internal struggle. I had to overcome a lot of shyness, a lot of reluctance to be on the stage. I hated, you know, being the center of attention. And the only place where I felt comfortable as the center of attention was in the courtroom. I had my voice, you know, I could speak, but put me on a stage, public speaking, and I was like, "Oh, I'm so happy with what I'm doing.", you know, I got into teaching in around 2004. And ever since I started, I really, second to the courtroom for me, the classroom is the place where I feel comfortable. And that's why when the opportunity, actually it was San Quico who first approached me seriously about running. And even when he, I've known Quico for a long time, but even when he was the one who came to me, I said, "Hey, oh, hey, you know, he took all of his powers of persuasion, and I told him, "I need to talk to my children, here is, I have to know what they think about it." And it was only after that that they actually opened up to me and said, "That, "Kum magsalita akalan matagal nakamimag su suportasayah." And that really made me realize, "Okay, let's see what we can do." You know what's amazing is that when people see the way you are, regardless of what's going on, there's a certain level of peace and confidence. You're not rattled when, you know, you're not the kind of person that's not you. So parang you come across as a man of few words, but those few words are enough to get people going, "Wait, I need you to have any congressman?" No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's like people almost wait for what you have to say about certain things. And it's like all the noise is going on, but when you speak, everything seems to simmer down, but this is what you said. I'm sharing this with you, all of you watching, because there might be some of you right now who might be thinking, "I don't want to do this," you know, whether it's you want to be a teacher or you're being called into public service or you have a lot of people telling you these things and encouraging you and you don't want to do it, all of the congressman didn't want any of this, but if you're called to do it, there must be a reason why. And then things slowly come together, now we have the congressman here in this room sharing his life with all of you. If I were to ask you, if you could, think of one word to describe how you actually put your work into practice, word or a statement or a line. I like to think that I'm a very focused type of person, that once I get into something, I really submerge myself in it. For example, when I handle a case, I could be doing something else, but part of my mind is still thinking about how I'm going to handle this case better. And especially when it comes to my work, I think it's because of the way I saw my dad and others of this generation work, that they really know what I'm doing, that they really know what they're doing, and they know why they're there and what they're fighting for. And to me, that's really as important as the skills that you need as a professor, because you could be the best technical lawyer ever. But if you don't know those things and you don't know why you're there, you could end up serving the wrong masters, and I've seen it, I've seen it in the profession even during my father's time and even in my time. Okay, Parasakhan, and I tell this to all the students I teach in law. Your techniques are good, but your ideals are what you should never abandon. You got that? I got that. You know sir, there was a musical that I was able to catch. I think it was last year, it was called Bar Boys. I don't know if you were able to catch it. Yes, I was able to catch it. I think it was, of course it was created in such a way that it would entertain, but it spoke to me so much. I had no idea, Kalau Bar Boys was singers in a bar that would go from bar to bar, then when I saw it, I was like, nobody told me it was about these young boys, young people trying to become lawyers. And from what I know, based on the movies I've seen, lawyers don't always win the case. Has there been a time of rejection that you've experienced or a time when it just didn't fall into place? Yes, you know, well, it's very true that lawyers don't always win. What's even true is that human rights lawyers often lose. It's in the nature of the work you do. You're up against very powerful people who have very strong connections, especially with government, and the chances of your succeeding from the very start are really slim. Your representing clients don't have any money, don't have any resources to gather evidence, you have to use your own creativity to figure out how best you're going to handle them and represent them. But it leaves you with a different sense of accomplishment when you get to handle a case successfully, because it's not often that you win. For example, I remember one of the very first murder cases I handled involved a man, the head of a family who lived in an urban poor community, somewhere here in Malabona area, who was taken by members of the police force and killed only because he was fighting to legitimize the use of electricity and water in their community. You know how it is in Puro Cabit-Cabitian illegal connections and he really wanted to uplift his community. So Telecom Pinaglaba Neon, but because it was interfering with the profit of some people there, Pinagini Tansha. So I agreed to help the wife. She was there when he was dragged away and killed. We fought that case for how many years. At the end of the, I don't know how long it takes, we lost the case. It went through three or four judges, the defendants hired a lot of lawyers, a battery of lawyers. And after how many years we, the men were acquitted. I felt so bad, do you know who it was who comforted me, was the wife of the victim. She was the one who patted me on the shoulder and said, "Aterini, it's okay. I know we lost, but I know we fought for justice." And for me, Sabine Sakhkin, that is what I really wanted to do. I didn't care if we were one or lost, but that Pinaglaba Neon, and I bring that with me all the time, because that's the sort of inspiration that really lasts for a lifetime. It's amazing to hear that, because you said that human rights cases. seldom win and still I mean you you still carried on and you still do carry on knowing that that's the situation and I have it here in my notes now for for every hour of work in court you spend 10 hours preparing well you know that quote actually was from my father I remember it was Senator Serge Josemenia one time we were talking and he told me do you know I I was here that's client he said and I asked him once I said how how many hours do you prepare and that was his answer he said for every hour I'm in court I spent 10 hours in my office and when I heard that I realized that for dedicated lawyers that's really the time that's really this part of time and you know for every hour 10 hours of preparation but there are people who are made for that no I mean like like you I mean you not everybody I mean some will probably hear it and it's go that's not for me correct you have to really have it deeply running in your veins that this is what you want to do this is what you're called to do and it's admirable to know that I guess that's that's where the work ethic came from again from your father and how important you know how important fathering is can you share with us what you would consider because I'm sure every case is memorable for you but is there one that really stands out and I mean it's it's very difficult to choose one or two specific cases but I do recall some experiences I had especially that that bridge the gap between when I was young and when I was a lawyer I let I'll tell you this story which I don't really often talk about in my in the second year of my dad's detention in Fort Bonifacio he was detained in a very tiny cell but behind their that built small building there was an open field that was full of tall grass at by that time mejo nagging muslaxiom and they would allow he as permission he said can my family visit on Sundays can they be allowed to be here morning until afternoon and we were so happy because before that we could only visit say two hours during the week two or three times a week so every Sunday we would go there early in the morning seven o'clock in the Nakameh Medela Nakameh Panpiknik stay until five and leave after a few Sundays he had as permission from the military if we could clear the back puro talai bione because he wanted to plant a garden and he said my gochumag plant now roses savage and ganon some every Sunday we would bring small shovels clear a portion of it until eventually we cleared the whole space then we started to plant we we planted trees we planted roses a list of and that's where we would picnic Pagpuponsa Kaminasa didn't come in with picnic after he was released from detention this is like September of 1974 I totally forgot about that garden it just slipped from my mind fast forward to around 1989 or 1990 I was a new lawyer then I was a member of flag the free legal assistance group and one of my colleagues says we are on time Bagun cliente me time cover them up and I said I'm sure Sancio Nakaditane Fort Bonifacio Fort Bonifacio yes I because Puntahanko so I I reached the place I asked around and they say you go here when I see the gate I said it had changed I entered the place and they lead me to a row of cells which is exactly where my father had been detained the client that I was supposed to talk to walks out of the cell where my dad had been jailed so I tell him I say I'll move back on scene of Nakakulu Mjandate something like that I called Nakakulu Mjand so okay we confer we're talking between where my dad was detained and the garden at the back there was a steel door I've forgotten about as we're leaving I I see the door and I say all those memories rush back in yes so I asked the soldier I said boss when did you book Saniano Gusto Kulang Makita the Nasalikod he opens the door and the garden is still still there the trees that were small trees when we left in 1997 were huge and it was just a beautiful site and when I was leaving that place it made me realize how because this detention center has always been a dark place for me because you see Nakakulu Mjandate is the environment is not exactly conducive to positive energy but I it may as I was leaving so because even Pala in the darkest of places there can be hope that you can cultivate and and that that's also an image that I go back to from time to time especially when I meet young people who tell me hi I hopeless now I'm a big brood Nakal I often the date is a Filipinas with nothing will ever change and I tell them you know you're wrong things can always change because during that time whoever thought that we would regain our freedom and if you go back you know in our earlier chapters in history and then did them on time and yet we've always managed to find some light in all of that darkness there was a word that you just mentioned there were two words hope and cultivate cultivate means you need to do your work you know and you may not see it right away but what you cultivate can actually last beyond even what you remember because you did not in all of those things only it was only when you went back to the cell that you you know you that's my dad cell and then the garden that you that you guys cultivated was actually still there so I really believe in that that there is hope but it must be cultivated there must be an effort on your part to make sure that the hope is not just something you hope for but something that you worked on so that the hope becomes a reality you know later on in time with everything that you've gone through and are still going through are there any other things that haunt you I know I know the word haunt might seem a little while but are there yes I what immediately comes to mind is our campaign against the death penalty you know I'm probably one of the few who was got to be present and witness the first three executions that ever took place since we revived the death penalty in the 1990s and those were experiences that I can never forget I remember especially the second or third execution the first execution I was not the lawyer it was a tyranny dead there but because we were part of flag he asked me said can you please accompany me so we were inside the lethal injection chamber when the the accused Mr. Chagare was killed the second execution was my client I got my recollection right and what happened was that we had been asking the president to stay the execution but apparently by the time he called the deleted prison it was too late so he had actually ordered a stay of the execution but by the time the call was made not because the chemicals that led to his death you should have seen that that was a scene I'll never forget so we're there just being inside an execution chamber is something you know but suddenly we're watching him and the door flies open from behind him and the warden or one of the high officials says it gilnyoyan and the doctor says it's too late and even the family who were victims of this guy were crying because he said gusto namina ma porusahensha pero aionamina patahensha but asamen it's enough that he gets punished in here acknowledges what the wrong that he did but that is one one case that it's very hard for me to forget on the other hand I have another case of death penalty where we got the opposite result these were three men who were convicted of a very heinous crime but when I met them and investigated the case I came to the conclusion Sanbiko I don't think they're guilty from all the indications I believe they're innocent. So we thought that case, I filed a petition in the Supreme Court, we lost, brought it up to the public, and the president actually stayed the execution and then commuted their sentences. And I was very happy because even up to now, I truly believe that they were had nothing to do at all with the crime. So these are the things that, I guess, the fruits of the kind of work that I do. I know it's not the kind of work that everyone would want to do. But I'm listening to you, Congresswoman, and I'm like, wow, it's a different level of, it's literally life or death in many cases. And like what you said, not everybody, not everybody is made for that kind of action those things that occur, those situations that you face, those cases that you're fighting for. But you're fighting for it. There are people who love watching movies that have to do with, like that, lawyers and attorneys battling it out because what's being said is, you know, you see Pantalaga and you really think, and for us, the public, when we see things like that, it really gets you to think and value life even more. You know, regardless of what the outcome may be. Earlier, you said something that you have met challenges, not only in your work, but in life in general. I would consider those moments of shaking, you know. Could you share with us a season that comes to mind where your life was truly shaken? I can recall one time where, because of the cases I was handling, I was receiving almost on a daily basis death threats. And to the point where, of course, even my family was affected, they would call on the landline, this is years ago, we used to have landlines, they would send letters. And then it was a very, very difficult time for me. And it made me also think a lot about, is this, is what I'm doing? Yes, you know, right? How about the possible harm that may come to my family? And that to me was a very, very difficult time, because I could have chosen to leave that, you know, and enter even more financially viable work than being a human rights lawyer. But at the end, I couldn't. I don't know why, but I just couldn't. And it made me think a lot as well about the work that I was doing. I mean, why do I continue doing this? You know, I don't get much money out of it. One of the things that I can latch on to is the fact that my dad wrote a lot of stuff about being a human rights lawyer. And there was one thing that he wrote that really stuck with me. He said that fighting for justice is empowering in itself. Whether you attain justice or not, the fact that you fought for it empowers your clients and even empowers you as a person. You know, it's totally a question of what is right. And what you believe should be happening in a society. K. Parasakhan, one thing that I'm so happy about is that because I became a more public person, so many young people have come up to me and said, "I want to be a human rights lawyer like you." And that really makes me feel so good because there was a time I felt like I was the only voice in the wilderness. Because out of the thousands and thousands of lawyers, there are only a few human rights lawyers. We would number only in the hundreds if at all. So the fact that more and more young people acknowledge that path and want to go there, to me is one of the compensations that I have probably been looking for on my life. I was going to lead into what surprised you most about the shaking. But I guess it's a good surprise when you hear young people come up to you and say, "I want to be a human." And I think these young people have also done their research, especially with social media and internet. They can really go into the nitty-gritty. If you look at these cases, "Oh, Kazonganyan and human rights, they see that it is not favored that much." But then they see you. And they know that you have other options. You can just give it up and do something else. But like the cultivated garden at the back, here are the young ones now saying, "I want to be one." What would you say the shaking that took place with all of that happened with your family now being threatened and all and people saying things and all? What would you think has not been shaken at all? I think it's been shaken to the core. When I look back, now I can look back because of my age and 65 years old. And when I look back, I realize that every decision you make really adds up to where you end up. Even if you never thought you would be where you are today. For example, even 20, 30 years ago, I never thought I would become an anthropolitics. Even as even 10 years ago, well, as a otaku telagayan, but when we began to experience really a constriction of our freedoms, when we back began to see so many actual judicial killings happening, I really felt I couldn't remain quiet. That's when I started to speak up. And it was after that that people like San Quico approached me and asked me, and after a lot of soul searching, I said, "Why not?" I've done a lot, probably I've done all I could inside the courtroom. Maybe it's time to look for a different arena where I can still continue to fight for what I'm fighting for. But perhaps make more systemic changes that will help more people in the long run. My approach to lawmaking is very different from other legislators because of the background where I came from. Would you say that it's because of the background and everything that you've experienced in the past and everything that you've learned, especially from your father, that that became the anchor? You know, like Ramatha, what shaking takes place? It's the same thing. The things that you've learned in the past and the things that you've learned from this, the lessons you've learned from your dad. Yes, but I think for every person, part of the journey of life requires that you find your core, that you find that safe place inside you where, no matter what happens outside, when I watched the Odyssey a few weeks ago, I was really taken by that scene where he was all alone at sea, you know, and what was the remains of a raft. And it's, I think it's the same for all of us. We all experience that point where you can't reach out for anyone where you have to find it within yourself to continue the struggle. I'm sure my father went through it, I'm sure a lot of other people went through it. For example, I can't imagine spending two years in jail when you didn't commit any wrong and where you have to be your liberties totally taken away from you. For you to survive that setting in core, you have to find something inside that will say, "I don't care, I'm just going to continue fighting." And that is, I think, what where a lot of our hope lies for the future. With everything that you've gone through, do you still find time to rest? Yes, definitely. Almost everyday. I mean, you're there in front of the eyes of a nation if we were to have a podcast episode where it's just what Filipinos feel about the Philippines and where it's headed, it may not seem like there's any hope, but I think that there would be so much negativity because they're just frustrated with the way things are. And they're hoping that their hope can be reignited. And you're faced with this on a daily basis. So I wonder long, you know, "Where does a man of public service, genuine public service, where does he get his time to rest and re-energize, went to more. the very same thing that he slept for six hours or eight hours just to put aside for a while, but he's saying, "Anjana, how do you get the rest that you need?" Okay, number one, I love plants that started during the pandemic. So I get a lot of comfort and I distress a lot through my relationship with the plants I have in me. And now as I talk to them all the time, and I also love human activity. I love to play badminton, that kind of effort really makes you distresses you a lot. It's something I truly enjoy. But you know, I've also found, and I never really talk about this, but I've also found a quiet faith in my religion, in what I believe in. And I don't like to talk about it. It's not something I have ever really spoken about publicly. Because Parasaka and it's between me and our creator. That relationship to me is so special that I don't want to make it public. Because for me it's a totally unique kind of relationship that we all have to have if you want to continue doing what you're doing. I like that, that it's a special relationship. And I'm glad that you shared how you take some time off and some moments of rest and all. But are there things that happen in your life, with what you've been doing, that are still teaching you things that you have not learned? Definitely, definitely. Even my public persona teaches me so much. You were calling me Congressman Kanina, but I felt like telling you, "Gari, I'm going to talk to you, Congressman." I, in the first place, I've always felt that we give too much attention to positions. We tend to kasi kanitoyan, sanadoryan, ganyan dapak kanitoyan, trato natin. But Parasaka and we should abandon that, really. Because I think that honesty and being straightforward with each other is so much more important than bowing to authority. And for us to really improve our country, we need to find a way to help our community. I'm one of those who really believes there's no superman in our country. There's no one person who can lead us to Islam. Every one of us has to have a part in it. Okay, so I should call you then Kuyya Chel. Kuyya, do you think that in order for people to achieve their goals, that seasons of shaking need to occur? Yes, definitely. The way I look at my life, it's like for you to move forward, you have to go through those things. There's a lot of nice things about that. Like, adversity is the best education that a character cannot be developed unless you have to face and overcome challenges. And I tell, I share that with a lot of young people. Now, what kind of problems do you have? How do you respond to the problems is what will make you either a better person or a worse person. And that is also what will teach you moving forward how best to conduct yourself. Those internal struggles are I think common to all of us. Because I noticed that a lot of younger people today, there's a lot of relying on that which can assure them of eliminating the challenges. And I share this with some people where when you go online and you go AI, usually when you present them the problem or you present AI the problem, it gives you a beautiful solution, a perfect solution. But how do you apply all of these perfect solutions to an imperfect world? And if everything were perfect, then you're like a father, you won't build any character. And if something should happen, you don't know what to do because you've never been faced with the challenge before. So I'm really, I needed to ask this of you because, and I'm glad that you shared that. Because it further emphasizes what I also truly believe in. And I'm glad that you shared your insight on that. The way the person responds to all of these things is really what matters. We've been talking really serious here, right? But I believe that there's a side to the congressman, Namejo, Kakaiba. Well, first and foremost, I didn't know you were from Lasal. I didn't know you were from Lasal. How come I didn't know? 78, Green Hills. And then for college. Okay. So from what I heard was Lasal never had something that had to do with law in DLSU. You went to UP, but you're the reason why there is that department now in DLSU, how did that all happen? Oh, that's a story in itself. So here I am practicing one day, my brother Armin gives me a call and invites me to have coffee. So I have no idea what he wants to discuss with me. Calajo, Barakaso, or some legal matter. And then he says, "We want to open a college of law and we want you to be the Dean." When he first mentioned it to me, I said, "In a brother." Well, I don't know much about the people of Madden. I know the people of Madden, Mahorasian, Matrabahoyan, Mangastu Jantema, Mangatichermo, Mangamagulanga, Mangastu Jantema, administration. You know what convinced me? It's when he said, "We want this law school to be different. We want it to have a human rights orientation." When I heard those two words, I think I want to be the Dean. So when we started it in 2009, we were not yet officially open because you have to get accreditation from the government and all that. We designed it in such a way that part of the law students' experience would not only be in the classroom, but they would have exposure to the problems of ordinary people. So from the start, it's up because of Lasal. Let's include a free legal aid where our students get to work with lawyers to provide free services to poor people. And then I said, "Dapat then, met on time, emphasis human rights as a subject." So we, aside from incorporating human rights in other subjects, even when this was not yet required, we already made sure that it was part of our curriculum. Especially for me, the exposure to problems of communities is so important as a lawyer. Because if you don't see their problems when you're studying, chances are when you become a lawyer, you won't bother finding any way to support them. And it has come true. A lot of my students, when we started the law school, I see them now, their lawyers, and many of them tell me, "Alamyudin, yung talagan pumataksa amin sa law school hindi naman yung classroom yung pumataksa amin yung we went to Palauwan and met with the Fisher folk or we went to Baguio and had the work with the communities." So yung yung mga talagan may in the Karun silan ng ibang kuento sa law, because of that experience. So that's been something that I'm very happy about. Oh, yeah, I'm happy to hear that too. I mean, it's always nice to hear how, let's say, for example, DLSU. You have two dancers that are learning, but not within the classroom. They're out there and really having the experience of meeting the people that they probably will end up serving with all their heart as well. No, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, seriously, oh, seriously, oh, so. You know, I personally, I do have TikTok, but I'm so scared because I have to get deep into it, because it's just like that. I'm scared of that, but you have it, and you do have people that are watching you, seeing you maybe in a different light or just seeing who you are, still true to yourself, but just in a different way. Thank you for watching. - You know, my eldest son is the direct Pepe. He's the director of Comporsa and so many other good things. - Oh my gosh, okay, I got it. - He was the one who really helped me get into social media. Aside from him, my other son, Abbas, is also very good in social media, must sound a little excited. - Yeah, wow. - So between the two of them, they were able to figure out how I could use the social media as a platform to continue my advocacy as a lawyer and human rights defender. And that's where we found that niche where I realized, especially because of the pandemic, that it's not just access to lawyers that we lack. It's access to basic legal information that you can use even without a lawyer. During the pandemic, because we weren't really doing anything, you couldn't leave the house. - I formed a group together with some younger lawyers. I said, "Maktayotayan and legal help desk online." Let's open it up to the public. And any question they have, if we can answer it, let's provide the answer for free. We began to realize after several months that many of the questions were repetitive and I mean, Tanong, how about birth certificate? - Look, if your birth certificate is wrong, hard to get the job, hard to get the fast, oh yeah, hard to work abroad, that's a problem. But a lot of Filipinos have problems with their birth certificate. What they didn't know is that you don't have to go to court to correct some of them. In the minds of many people, so we started to come out with material online. At all. If you have a problem, let's say it's a first name or you just have to go to the website of the civil registry, get the forms, download it, submit it, and you can have that corrected already. So people began to realize, so from that experience, we realized that there are so many things that people don't know about, that affect them on a daily basis, that have to do with law. For example, very basic question. Nagawa, you're copied by Delpinarkmo, you're Kochimosa, Harapnan-Bain, you know, that happens all the time. So what's the law there? Or another example, this one really went viral. You have two properties with a property line, a tree in the property line belonging to, say, Guy number one, but the fruit falls on Guy number two's property. Can you know fruit, Jan? Is it his, because it's already fellery? And the lopalai is Ganito. If the fruit is still hanging on the tree, that belongs to Guy A. But the minute that fruit falls on property B belongs to B. And so many people were like, Ganonpal, Anbataz. So that's the niche that we found. But because of the nature of the subject, you know, Loisou have struck and so bored. Yes. We had to find ways to make it alive and to make it attractive for people to watch. And that's where the challenge really came in. And that's where my kids challenged me. I liked the fact that you said. Ibaqai, Indika, for the city of Surjana. Correct, correct. Saka Amganda, you have a son who is creative and another one who is analytical. So, parang, you put that together. That's really a team that you will need. And it just happens to be your children. And you know what, you're right. Sometimes when I watch, you know, like what's going on in the Senate and all, they're using words that I never would really, I'm like, I'm parang, I'm not going to be able to do it. But what you do, it makes a person really go, ah, ganon tala, instead of, in Bainkas, oh, I'm thinking, "Baka naman ganito, ay, baka naman ganya." Nede, baka naman ganito, but you present it in a way that makes people can relate to it, people can digest the last one immediately. So, I want to congratulate you on your TikTok, and I hope, no, seriously, I hope that you continue in doing this, you know. Sometimes what is on social media is, are the craziest things. Naturally, the people have the freedom to express themselves in whatever way. But the route that you've chosen answers a lot of people's questions that they don't even know how to ask because they don't know what jargon to use, what words to use. But you are presenting it now, ganon. Now, I have questions in my head that never mind. I'll save it for another time, maybe. The Siguro one question I'd like to ask you. The rains have been terrible. Waters have still been rising. There's a lot still being fought about with regard to government. If I were to ask you, I have two grandchildren. Because I really look at my grandchildren and I'm like, this is what they're going to grow up with. And if it continues, it's only going to get worse, unless something is done. Is there hope? Yes. I truly believe that the minute you surrender, hope, you surrender everything. If we want to change our country, we must fight for it, and that also includes keeping that hope alive. You know, I've met a lot of young people all over our country, while some of them do feel powerless. When I start talking to them about how we built this country from nothing, how we created a society when there was none really before, that we could say we are one as a community, as a Filipino community. They begin to realize that it's a we are a work in progress. We may not be able to see the fruits of what we do in our lifetime. But as long as we keep moving in that direction, things will get better. As long as we cultivate. I really like that word that you shared a while ago. Cultivate. Yeah. You know, there was one time, if I might share, after Typhoon, Yolanda, I remember flying to late. And when we were in the Eroplan, our plan was to take care of all the mountains and tarpulines. It looked neat, because there were many tarpulines. All in blue. And I'll never forget the one sign that I saw, carried by a young student on the street, just putting it up, or he was putting it up, it said homeless, but not hopeless. And then you look around. I saw it, I saw it. It was sad, but encouraging. To see people say, "Yeah, we don't have a house, but we don't have a house." So, there. You know, hope. There is. But the hope, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, no? But the hope doesn't just lie in those that lead, but those that truly live, you know, for a better tomorrow. I know we've heard that all the time, no? Let's make a better tomorrow for our children and our grandchildren. But really, if we are able to cultivate today, break ground, plant new seed, and cultivate it, then I think hope will definitely sprout in the course of time. Right? Right. I like the fact that I feel I'm not sitting and talking to a politician now. I'm not even sitting down with a attorney. I'm sitting down with a human being. "Tamang-tamabhinan gitmokanina" that I'm calling you congressman. Or "Tangalinatin'yung congressman" and just speak to them as "chell-jokno". For those who may be going through shaking right now, in any area of their life, whether it be health, financial, relationship problems, academic problems, mental issues, mental health issues, or people who are being called to serve letharhesita, because, you know, Paranghoop has been has depleted so much. Could you share from your heart, you know, to all of those watching right now, a message for those who are in the thick of shaking? Well, first of all, Indika Yonagi Issa, all of us encounter these challenges. Sometimes they can be so earth-shaking and even shattering to our ego, to our experiences, to our dreams. But I'd like to tell you that there is always a part of you that is above the problems. There's always a part of you that you can run to that will give you that safe space, where you can operate and where you can think things through and figure out what best is, what's the best way out of them? problem that I am encountering today. At the same time, I've always believed that we are not alone, that even if us individuals, we think that these problems are only ours. There are a lot of people who love you and who will support you and help you through your challenges. All you have to do is ask. Remember you're never alone and there are people who will help you. You know, you said something in that very last statement of yours, all you have to do is ask. And if you have no one else to talk to and no one else to ask, there was a word that our guest today also shared, but he didn't share much about because he said it's special and it's personal. So in the most personal way, you can ask, he said, "creator, I call him God." You can ask God. He may not give you the solution immediately to your problems, but the way he orchestrates could be in a way that where he brings in the people that you need to talk to, the people that you need to share these problems with, people who won't only tell you what you want to hear, but what you also need to hear. It may be a painful journey, but like what Kuyachen said, sometimes the conflicts in life and the way you respond to it is what builds your character into making you a better person instead of a bitter person. Folks, I do hope that you've enjoyed being with us today in unshaken the stories of grit and grace. You know, Parang, I wish if peace was palpable, like a gift, so that I could have one right here from you because you basically have answered my curiosity because this is what we're meeting. And we said to be, should we bring in some politicians? And of course, everybody's like, wait, be careful. I am leaning toward this person and there's an agenda. There is an agenda. The agenda is to show the person behind the politics. And I think we were successful in doing that today. And you confirmed in me that God made the right choice of putting you where you're at. You would be in my prayers, sir, with everything you've shared and every time I see all of you, you know, trying to solve the problems that we're going through and it's a tough job. And there are a select few who have been called to do it. And I'm hoping that all of those in politics get to see that. How they have been chosen out of the many. They've been chosen to lead a country into better chapters in the future. Oh, I hope you've learned some lessons like I have from our dear guest. This time I will use the word congressman, none other than congressman Chal Jokno. Thank you so much for being with us. Join us again. Okay? Next week, I don't know who's going to be, but don't forget to share, to subscribe, and like, you know, all of these things and join the community that we're trying to build. I'm excited for what's going to come up for next week.