Chef Kwame Onwuachi on Turning His Life Around, Top Chef & Cooking with Keke

My guest today is a chef who was helping reshape how we think about culture and the stories we tell through food. Kwame Anawachi is a James Beard Award-winning chef, restaurant tour, and author who opened five restaurants before turning 30. As if that wasn't enough, his restaurant Tatiana was named #1 in New York City by the New York Times two years in a row. And he was the chef at the Met Gala in 2025. I was there. It was good. But Kwame's work feels bigger than the kitchen, celebrating Caribbean, West African, Creole, and New York flavors, and a way that brings more people into the conversation around what great food, heritage, and fine dining really looks like. Kwame Anawachi are about to cook, literally. So I hope y'all came hungry, because baby, this is Kitty Palmer, and baby, this is Kwame. Today's episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Starbucks. The most iconic beverage is here. The Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte is back to kick off the season. Order now on the app. Chef Kwame! Yes! What are you doing? This is literally the most easy, breezy thing for me. I feel like we're back in the crib just chilling. I mean, because the people don't know how we met. No. I mean, we met with friends. I come to your house. I'm like, who? Everybody was like, yo, I was dating this dude at the time. He's like, who got me my homeboy Kwame, my homeboy Kwame? You know, he's this dope chef. I was like, okay, we come to your house, and then your house becomes like the spot. We're actually, I'm actually really pissed, me and all my friends. We're like, damn, we're Kwame, because we used to pull up to that West Hollywood spot, man. And you would have playing Mafia. We have people playing Mafia. You would randomly chef up some stuff. Yeah. You don't cook for free, y'all. Let me see what y'all know. Just get your homeboy as a chef. You don't cook for everybody. But every now and then, you give us a little something. A little sound sound. That was parties were so fun. We had so much fun. No. And it was like two or three times a week. Yes. Yes. Could you always host? I was always hosting. And I feel like you bring those that vibe to your restaurant. Yeah. I had a standing order for liquor. Um. And like, it was, it was a whole situation. It was. It was. And any time and night, up to like 3 a.m., you know, you could hit me and be like, what are you doing? I know. Grab people over. Come through. When did you come in back? I'm working on it. And when I feel like I'm in New York, do you give that same energy at the crib you never, I didn't have a video. Oh, no. I'm working here. Yeah. I feel like New York for me is like work. Yeah. Yeah. When I'm in New York, I'm working. I'm taking meetings. I'm at the rest. I'm going to the restaurant right after this. Yeah. I mean, the restaurant is crazy. Let me tell you how something real quick. This is going to make Kwame live. So I go to Tatiana. It's a lot. And I'm really lucky that I get a chance to because it's actually like the hardest restaurant to get into. We are actually friends. So I'd be like Kwame. Tell the people. Let me up in there. So they let me up in there. I bring a couple of friends with me. And I'm like, you know, Kwame's like, I got you guys. Just like whatever y'all want, whatever to that. So they bring us all this food more than we even order at the end of it, guys, a $4,000 bill. Oh, yeah. That's all, guys. Just cuz me, my friend, it don't mean a damn thing. My friends are like, what the hell, why did you hook us up? We need to be hooked up, yo. But the food, it was so, I mean, the food there is so good that menu. It's kind of like the most insane food I've ever tasted because all the flavors that you done put up in it. Yeah. It all comes from the heart, you know, and I think that's what good food, it's intentional. You know, that's what makes good food, it's intentional, and also the vibe and everything. The artistry of being here because I think that, I mean, for me, I don't know everything about all chefs, but I never thought a chef was you. Yeah. Full, fly, mixing, a curated people with food, I never knew that that's what chefs was doing. Like, I just thought, okay, the chef was cooking, I think I'm going to Ramsey, I'm not thinking about what you bring to it. Well, we're multi-dimensional, you know, and I think a true chef is trying to tell a story. It's more than just a dish. Cooking is, I don't want to say it's easy, but it's, you know, that's part of, you know, you sing, right? You know, someone's going to say, hit a note, you can hit a note, but can you tell a story with your song, right? Can you tell a story when you're acting? Like, what is the message you're trying to portray? How do you get people behind it to believe in it? And that's, it's no different with food. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's get into the pre-show, pull up questions, and I'm going to get into the beginnings of Kwame. I know that your, your zodiac times is a Scorpio. You were very, very Scorpio, didn't you? Okay. What does that mean? When people say that? Because I don't follow the zodiac. You have mystery to you. Okay. You're very about your stuff. Like, you were not afraid to be like, this Kwame's world. Yeah. That's very Scorpio. Scorpio's are very much like that. You always have some crazy love situation going on. That's like very Scorpio. It's like, who's in Kwame's life now? Who's the lucky lady? Okay. Um, yeah, I feel like those, and I, I mean, I've never gotten on your bad side, but I feel like it's not one I would want to be on, because Scorpio's will be down that Scorpion on you. That's fair. That's fair. Um, love language. This is fun. I'm interested to see what this is. So, acts of service and words of affirmation. You know, this is just how you receive or also what you give. I think I give all of them. I give them all, if there's five, I give seven, I don't know. I'm a holly. You are a mess. You are the words of affirmation feels right, though. Yeah. And acts of service. And acts of service. You know, like, I feel like being in, you know, someone's life, especially someone that's like in hospitality, like we give, I give a lot. You know, and receiving that, it doesn't have to be big exact acts of service, but it should feel like they're appreciated that way. Yeah. I've seen you in a relationship. You really was treated her like a queen. It was very like really pulling out the red carpet and, yeah, my queen, like it was so bad. I was like, okay, why me? Okay. Um, what's a question you wish you were asked in more interviews? Would you like a drink? Oh, my, also, what's your address so I can sit again? Yeah, that's, that would be nice, you know, instead of like, what's your favorite dish to make? Like, you know, like, ask me something that I give a **** about. So, wait a minute. What is your favorite drink? Uh, you know, Costa Migos. Oh, yeah, because we was always doing that. That's it. Oh, my gosh. Can we talk about me and you? Was it after, was it the Met Galenite? What was it? Uh, you know, I think it was fashion week or something, it was fashion week. We went all over, we were, we had, I think my driver took us everywhere and we were drinking. And by the way, guys, I hate to say that Kwame is right, but Kwame be right. He was first of all so annoying, which is, this spotting to spot. Let's go. This spotting to spot. Let's go meet. No, it was like, why is nothing up to Kwame's standard? And then you were like, we should have stayed at Savannah James spot. And you were right. Yeah. And it was chill. You know what I mean? Like, because when it's chill, it's like we are the party. Like we don't need other people to make it the party because we're just, we're with ourselves and we're comfortable. And if anybody we see in the mix is cool, but like, we're not trying to be in the mix on, you know, and pop around like, you know what I mean, it's like, yeah, it's like, let's be in a place that's chill and very controlled. I kept thinking about that the whole night. We stayed, we was up to like four AM, whatever. And we were bouncing around all those places. It was crazy. And it wasn't even given nothing. Zero. But Savannah James spot. It was chill. And he goes on demand, we can get water whenever we wanted, bathroom was empty, gave us a section. Yeah. That was really the one. Yeah. And you were right. You're right. Who is someone you've met that made you feel starstruck? I mean, obviously Obama. I remember when I first met you, you took me to the picture like James Beard me and Obama. Yeah. I was like, who is this? I got to know this guy. I mean, what were you thinking? How was that experience? It was cool. It was Easter egg roll and DC. It's their tradition for Easter. And I cooked and I got to meet him and I don't know, it was like a long line of us like waiting to meet him. It wasn't the Oval Office. It was like above the Oval Office, whatever that room is. Fabulous. And, you know, it's like Quammer. What's up? And I was like, oh, he knows who I am. Of course, they probably had a card before. Sure, sure, man. He's still. Genuine. You know? And it was just like a larger than life moment that I'll never forget. I feel like he's such an icon. He has. And he changed my life when I was like down and out and doing things that were not conducive to a productive life. When I saw Barack Obama walk across the stage, I was like, I can do anything. Here's a black man who became the highest level of office in the world. What am I doing with my life? I need to start cooking or something, you know? And honestly, that moment changed my life. So seeing him in person was, I don't know, it was an out-of-body experience almost. And then he comes to the restaurant now, which is cool. So it's more regular. But like when I first met him, it was like, holy ****. Yeah. You were speaking to something about just your upbringing. When I was doing research, getting ready for this interview, I didn't know that she was a bad-ass little kid. Because since I've known you, you've always been like a very young prodigy chef. It's like I'm like when you was bad like growing up in the Bronx and then Nigeria, your mama sent you away 'cause she was tired of you. Like take me back to these early days, Kwame. - I mean, it's easy to Vera from the wrong path, I guess, like in that, when you're in that environment. And, you know, shout out to my mom for noticing where my life could go. So she wanted to nip that in the bud. And she sent me to Nigeria. She told me I was going on vacation for two years. I don't know why I believed her. - 'Cause two years of vacation, that sounds good. - But I was a kid, you know? Well, she told me it was two weeks to be fair. And then I got out there and I was like, "Holy shit, this is not a vacation." I'm not in Legos. This is like three hours into the village. My grandfather was the chief of the village. We had no running water, electricity. And then two years later, I came back. - So did you learn a new dialect while you were there? Like, what are they speaking? - I learned, like, pigeon, you know, which is like their patois. But, I went to school out there. They spoke English in school 'cause they wanted to teach everybody English. - Sure, sure. - But it definitely gave, it definitely went me in the shape. - So before then, you was in a Bronx. At what age did you move to Nigeria? - Ten. - Ten, you were there to you about 12. - 12, yeah. - 13, you came back, was this, when did you stop by in Louisiana? - I stopped by Louisiana after high school. - After high school. - So my first year in college, I ended up getting kicked out of college, yeah. - She was doing. (laughing) - I was getting caught. I wasn't doing nothing wrong. I was just getting, that's the realest thing. - That's very real. That's what I was doing. I was getting caught. - I was getting caught. (laughing) But before I got caught up by the police, that's when I saw Obama, on "Consistage." And I was, you know, I was dealing in pharmaceuticals. - Right, yeah. - So I flushed everything down the toilet, and I bought a one-way ticket to Louisiana to live with my mom and get my (beep) to go. - 'Cause that's where your mom moved after the Bronx. - Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I went down there, it was Baton Rouge. - Actually. - Wow. That Rouge is down there. - Yeah. - It's the real, you know, no city vibes. - No. - No, no, no. - So I mean, what role did cooking play in your life? I mean, it's funny because when people talk about finding their calling, it's like the signs were always there. Even if you didn't pay that much attention to it. So, were you already cooking when you were a kid? - Yeah, so my mom is a chef. My mom's a chef. - How did I not know that your mom was a chef? - You know my mom's a chef. - You didn't eat your food before it. - I think so. - Well, yeah. - No, no, no, not, first of all, let's not do that. (laughing) Don't do that. I mean, what's camera do I have to look at? Do not do that. - When did I eat your mama food? - Okay, my mom. - I do, now it's coming back to you. - Go ahead. - Remember you telling me this, actually. - You remember there was a party I had in my aunt was on the table dancing. - I do remember that. - My mom was there at the very least. - I can't believe that I didn't convince this. - But maybe we didn't talk about being a chef, but she's a chef, so she had a catering coming that she operated from the house. And we had to help out. I'm talking about, I was five years old. My sister was 10. So it's always, and then my family comes from a long line of restaurant tours, you know, Jim Crow and the South. We couldn't-- - Now that I did know. - Yeah. - I did know about your, was it your-- - My grandmother and my great-grandmother. - Your grandmother did go to the restaurant, yeah. - Which is crazy. - So it's always been in my family. And my mom's side is Creole. So all they do is eat and drink and party. That's it. - And I mean, culture is abundant. Like when you think about, I think about Creole, I think about New Orleans. Like, that's one of my favorite things about going to Louisiana. Even when I was in Shreveport or Bozer, I've been a couple places down there. And it's like there's always such a great spirit of community that you can feel and you can see. And I think that's what makes your food so special. So when did you decide? When was the moment where you said, I'm doing this? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm walking my mom and my family's footsteps. - Yeah, so I never really thought of it as a career. I was always in the kitchen. My first jobs were in restaurants in New York and everything. And then I guess when I left college and moved down, the only job I can get in Louisiana was a cook. And I started as a dishwasher and then it was a line cook and then worked at catering companies. And even then, it still wasn't really, really ingrained that this is what I was gonna do. I was, I also was pursuer and rap at the time and acting so like I was like, you know, I was 18, I was trying everything out. - Yeah. - And then the Deepwater Horizon Oil spill happened in the Gulf of Mexico. This was like an oil spill that like millions of gallons were like pumping into the ocean because of the oil rig that like fell over. And they were hiring cooks to go out there and cook for the people that were cleaning it up. And I was in Louisiana and this guy, he was coming back like, I only saw him every three weeks. I was like, yo, where are you going? That I only see you every three weeks. How do you sell a job here? He was like, oh, I work here a part time. You know, they're paying like $2,000 a week for these cooks to go out on the ocean. And I was like, wait, how much are they paying? He was like, two grand. I was like, sign me up. I want to go out there. So I went out in the middle of the, the middle of the Gulf of Mexico and cooked for these like pirates really like cleaning up the oil. And I really like found my groove. There was no Wi-Fi at the time. This is like back in the day, you know, no internet service in the middle of the ocean. Like I just had to cook from within. And, you know, that, yeah. So, you know, cooking for those people, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, you know, for months on end. I really was like, I love this. Like I should really put everything into this. And then I moved back to New York and I started doing my thing. - Now, when did you make the connection from not just, first of all, that story is incredible. Like I want to see the movie of that story. Like you with the pirates, you making cooking for Wi-Fi. When did you realize that food could tell a story, right? 'Cause that's to me the next level from just making something is creating a world around it. - That's a great question. 'Cause I say that all the time. ♪ Baby, this is, can you call my yeah ♪ - You know what just came back into my life like it never left? - Mm-hmm. The Starbucks pumpkin spice latte. And the second I saw it on my Starbucks app, I knew fall was just around the corner. The first sip took me right back to that fall feeling. And I remember how much I L-O-V-E this part of the year. I can't wait for the leads to have their whole moment. And the air to finally have some personality to it. When I actually want to be outside instead of rushing past everything, that's what I'm excited for. It's funny how a walk I've done a hundred times feels brand new just because fall is almost here. That's the thing about fall rituals. They're familiar in the best way. The iconic Starbucks pumpkin spice latte falls right into that category for me. Same drink, same me. But somehow it feels like a whole moment every single time it comes back. So let this be your sign to slow down, soak the season in, and grab a Starbucks pumpkin spice latte as fall begins. Celebrate fall with a return of the iconic pumpkin spice latte. Order now on the Starbucks app. Tastes like fall. I think I just found our next family trip and it's Asheville, North Carolina. Yes, September is when the leaves start turning and I am building this entire trip around a porch. I need to find a home on Airbnb with the real porch because I can already picture mornings out there with coffee and evenings watching the mountains change color while my parents pretend they're not getting emotional about it. I'm putting the River Arts District on the list too because watching Glassblow's work is like the kind of thing that my sister will talk about for years. My dad's already asking if Asheville has good barbecue, which yes, obviously that's so locked in. We're also doing the built more one afternoon. It's this gorgeous, gilded age mansion right outside of the city that makes you feel like you've been transported to Versailles. I want to watch my parents walk those gardens like kids again. So what I'm saying is find a place to stay on Airbnb and Asheville this fall. I'm building the whole trip around that porch so we can get that magical home away from home feel and I'm not even sorry about it. I guess I realized it with my second restaurant. It was Kith and Ken, which means friends and family and old English. Kith and Ken and where was this one? This was in DC. DC, you spot. Yeah, DC. So I started cooking food that I grew up eating. Afro Caribbean cuisine. Influenced from my mom, my dad, who's Nigerian and Jamaican. And then I was just interested in like the etymology of a dish. Like okay. And then break that down. Why is there curried goat in Jamaica? Okay, we find out that in Trinidad and the early 1800s, a couple of indentured servants from India came over on a boat and brought with them not only their work ethic, but their food ways. Why is there rice in America? You know, some of the captured Africans used to like hide rice in their corn rows. And then they taught the settlers how to even grow rice with Carolina gold, right? So it's like every dish is like a snapshot in history. And that was so fascinating to me that a dish could tell a story. Wow, do you have mentors or were there people as you started to change the way that you looked at food as really art that you kind of were inspired by or, you know, Yeah, I mean my mom obviously huge mentor of mine. I had some like teachers at the culinary Institute of America that were mentors of mine, Bruce Motel, you know, Chef PatanaVidge, the late James Kent who was the chef at Crown Shy. You know, he was a mentor to me when I worked at a love of medicine park. So I've had people along the way that have definitely like brought me along. That were really important to me for sure. That's awesome. What do you feel that there is about chefs that people maybe don't know or don't understand about your lifestyle, you know? I would say that we don't really cook at home like that. You know what I'm saying? Like how you said you kind of my house, it's not guaranteed that you're going to get to know me. There's going to be food though. I always had a spread of food curated, you know what I mean? But like we don't cook for ourselves that often. Like our our act of service is very selfless and I don't think people understand that. And so how does that look for your day to day? Like is it like, you know, first of all, I feel like having a restaurant is very hard. You hear people talk about it, but you you do it so much and you do it so well. What does that mean for your life? Are you waking up in the morning and having a look through numbers? Are you able to just be creative? Like how does it mean to be an entrepreneur and a chef? I think it's there's there's, you know, there's levels to it. There's different levels to it all. So you know, some chefs are in the kitchen every single day. Some are also their bookkeepers, you know, other chefs have a team to get a lot of things done. And I have a team, you know, that's the only way I can have restaurants in multiple cities. That's only where I can get some sleep at night. So I rely on my team a lot. And you know, being able to let go has let me grow at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Is there a dish from your childhood that still makes you feel like? My mom's gumbo. Classic seafood gumbo is such a dish that people will drag you about for sure. Why? It's different from house to house. They say the best gumbo is in somebody's house. Yeah. And so what do you think? Well, what's the key? What's like a key thing with gumbo? Well, you know, for instance, and maybe you could tell me if this is true or not. A friend of mine who's you making says you could tell when somebody's like, Curry isn't good because they don't burn it in the pop first. Is that true? Have you heard of this before? What do they mean by that? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you have to cook the curry out. It's not really burning it. It's like it's cooking it out in oil. So before you add everything else. So that's what my friend has told me. So I guess that's like a true rule of a real Jamaican situation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Now what is it like with gumbo? Is there a thing? You know, the thing is everybody makes theirs different. So like, I'm not going to sit here and say what the key elements are. I know what it is for my family, you know. Are you allowed to share it? Yeah. For sure. It's a dark roux. It's the Holy Trinity, which is like bell pepper onion and celery. Obviously don't garlic and thyme in there as well. You know, we use a shrimp stock, homemade shrimp stock, which is like a shrimp broth. You make your roux, then you add your vegetables in there, the Holy Trinity, then you add your stock, then you let that simmer. My family does chicken, sausage, and seafood. So it's like all those flavors. And then, you know, your house spice or your Creole spice as well. So like, all those things are non-negotiables for me, but some people add okra. I've seen some people add turkey necks. See, we're all turkey necks. Be lay powder. You know what I mean, depending on what house the house I go to. But yeah, I mean, the most important thing is that the gumbo isn't nasty. That's, that's the most important thing because you could be like, all right, this ain't my gumbo, but it's all right, you know what I mean? But if it's nasty, if the, if the roux is burnt or you're putting like strange vegetables in there, you know, that's one. To me, there's only like chicken and sausage gumbo, and there's like the seafood gumbo, then there's like the mix of those two. Those are the only three gumbo that I eat personally. Yeah, yeah. But from house to house is different. So I don't know. I love the freedom of that. That feels very encouraging to anybody out there. You know, I don't say, I wouldn't say try it out yourself. I've never had the pleasure of having your cooking. I know, but you know, I'll be honest. It's not great. It's, it's, it's cool. You know what I mean, I still, when you say you don't, you learn how to cook from the heart. Yeah, I'm still cooking from the book. Oh, you know what I mean? I don't know how to let go. You got to let go. How do you do that and ensure that it's good? You know, like being with a loved one, you just be in the moment. Like that's what you got to do, but you just have to be in the moment. You have to let it flow. You know, you got to make mistakes. You got to learn from those mistakes. What are like a good thing that I should start with? Like if I'm going to like let it flow and let it go and be like, I'm about to start cooking. What would be a meal that you would say? Go and go. The first thing I would start with is scrambling eggs. Well, I'm good at that. Now he really put me down. Are you though? I'm like, I got to see the eggs. I got to see, um, after that, after you get that together, um, what do you like to eat? How about we start with that? I love what is so funny because you actually use a lot of influence of like Chinese food and stuff like that. I love it. I love agent food. I love soul food. I love the idea of. Okay, give me a dish though. Okay. Kimchi pancake. You just gave me a whole continent. Give me a concept. The fusion of. I love all of Asia. The Indians and what? I love a kimchi pancake. Okay, so with that, start with something that you like to eat. So by the time you finish making it, there's like a reward, you know what I'm saying? Like that's what I would start with. Kimchi pancake isn't as. It's not that difficult. Well, I don't really know your your level of expertise. It's not the cultural institute of America. Okay. I think you could, you could, I think you could do a kimchi pancake. I think you could do a kimchi pancake. I would start with that. Well, when I text you about it, don't act funny. I'm just going to ask you to like just tell me what the cute things and elements are. You can't tell me how to act. I will respond. Scorpio. Scorpio. Yeah, Scorpio. You were on top chef right after you graduated. What made you decide to go and put yourself out there and be a chef in front of the camera? They reached out to me honestly. Oh, that's sick. Yeah, they reached out to me. So I was doing pop-ups around the world and I was getting a lot of like national, international press. So the casting directors reached out to me and they offered me to come on. I didn't have to try out or anything. That's so cool. And I was opening in my first restaurant at the time. So I thought it would be the shop. The shop. Yeah. So I thought it would be good publicity for the restaurant. What do I have to lose? I'm like 22 23 being on there as an honor. Yes. And then when I got on there, I was like, holy s**t. This is a huge mistake. I should have not. What made you feel that? I was just so nervous. It was a lot. It was real chefs around me like older chefs. I was the youngest on the show. Fortunately, I did really well, but it was it was very nerve wracking. It's so funny to hear you say that because you're just so that's not the crime. I don't know a nervous crime. Yeah, I'm just being vulnerable. I love it. It's me and you. It's Scorpio and me. Because you're so you to me. You're so confident and you do things with so much ease and it feels like you have such a immediate trajectory for your life. But I guess maybe you're just trusting your instincts. I'm trusting my instincts. And I'm trusting the universe that they put me in a place that for wasn't supposed to be there, I wouldn't be there. So I might as well step up to the challenge at the end of the day and show some damn poise while I'm there. It's right. Fake it till you make it at least. So I showed up confident, but I was very nervous throughout top chef. That's really inspiring. And then after obviously, Shobby's you ended up closing. I don't have was it a year to how long did it stay? That would be amazing if it was. It was like three months. Really? What did you learn? Because obviously it wasn't it wasn't the food. It's I mean, again, being a restaurant tour. It's really difficult. It was so many factors. I mean, I learned to I'm still learning honestly, but making sure that you put a good team around you. You know, because starting a business is like starting a marriage. You have to be willing to like push through the tough points, communicate very, very well. Provide something that the other person isn't providing. You know, be this like partnership. So it was that's what I learned from it. You know, but six months later, I opened up Kith and Ken and we were like, you know, James Beard award this and all that. So exactly. So I knew it wasn't the food. I knew it was like something that I needed to learn even for myself. It's not I'm not just putting the blame on others like learning how to lead and you know, be was be extremely responsible and show up in different ways other than just a chef. Yeah. How would you say or what would you say are those main things in terms of producing the proper team? Like when you're thinking about when a restaurant is your first thought like what kind of investor am I looking for a partner? You know, yeah, for sure. That's like number one. Yeah. What is the partnership going to look like? And are these people in it for the the long haul? And are they honest people? But you also never know until you until things are bad when you really get to see the true sides of people. Yeah. Yeah. So it still is some sort of trust you have to relinquish in the universe and in that person. And then you have to deal with it when it's the fan or things are really good. Do you like you? And it's tough. But you know, I always say to myself like I'll never stop being the kid that runs up to someone in the playground and asks you want to play because you can't let that affect you. You know, like that's something that other people are doing and it's unfortunate when it doesn't go right. As long as you're doing all the right things, you know, but it can't jade you to humanity. Yeah. It makes any sense. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you've spoken about how people speaking to the young piece of this all that people felt like you You didn't pay your dues when you came in. You kind of came in guns blazing and things just popped off. How does that feel now? How did you even adjust to that in that moment? Because you can say that this person has it paid their dues, but then you look at your lineage. And it's like there has been so many dues paid for you in this path as well. - For sure, for sure. I mean, I try not to let others' opinions affect my own trajectory because that has nothing to do with me. You know it, you were in the public eye. You know, people are gonna have their opinions. So it's like, you gotta internalize it for a second and move on, take what you want from it and move on. But I know what my worth is and I know that I'm gonna work or out work a lot of people at the end of the day. So I'm gonna figure this out and wear the other. - I've never seen you not working. I feel like me and you, and again, I feel that we're so similar, even though we do different jobs. The creativity, I feel like, comes for the same place because we'll be one area and you'll be like, that's another idea. I'm about to call someone so, so, so, so. Like, I mean, where does that come from for you? 'Cause me, I'm just inspired by what I'm around and the next thing you know, I got a new damn show and a new job out of a hobby. - Yeah, well it's the same thing. It's like our minds never stop even though we do. I'm sure you go to see the same time I do and you wake up the same time I do. It's just 'cause our brains are just going. No matter what, I'm like, is there a drug to take to stop this? - Wait. - Instead of, yeah. But that makes it go more. I'm like, there's nothing for us. - It's so true. - Yeah, but it's our superpower at the end of the day. It's a double-edged sword, you know what I mean? So we can't control it at times. That would be crazy though, if we could control it. - I also feel like that's why we are. It's so funny because it's a double-edged sword because I feel like that's also why we are the way we are because when I do my craft, I'm meditating inside of it. - Exactly. - Which I'm sure that's how it is for you. When you're cooking, it's like, that's what does it. It's like, I'm also being driven to it because it also lets me disappear in a way. I don't know how to explain it. - For sure, 'cause we're immersing our work. So we're disappearing from our thoughts. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? It's that Zen moment, that food is (beep) it's that sun moon and whatever (beep) is it called the moon arising? Yeah, it's all that. - And you don't know what time you're born. - Oh man, my mom told me to stay away from girls to ask me that. - She's right. Okay, before we get to the cooking, I do want to just do another call out to Tatiana's because again, you've had. - Why are black people always at a S (beep) - I know, why do we do that? I decided to my mom the other day. She does that, I get it from her. Tatiana, it's Tatiana. Tatiana, Tatiana, Tatiana's. - So Tatiana's? - Like why? So Tatiana's, anyway. - It does sound nice though. It rolls off the tongue. - It do. - Come on now. - Tatiana is so, for you, what does it mark the success of this restaurant? You've had success across the board, talk about Kidney and Ken, I mean, it's continuous. But Tatiana, I feel like is another vibe. What do you attribute to that? - It's just authentic at the end of the day. Like you said, you walk in there, it feels like you're one of my parties at the crib. Music's loud, there's food, there's drinks, you'll see some people you know. - Somebody would do rags right next to somebody woulda took Seto. - Exactly, exactly. - They both the same, just Seto, what'd you do? (laughing) - You don't have to do rags. But yeah, you know, for me, it's like, it's so important because I'm from New York, you know? Like I used to sell candy on the subway and sit on the steps of Lincoln Center, like dreaming like, man, I gotta figure this out. One day, and like, to have, it's not lost on me. There's so many memories for me in New York as a kid growing up in the Bronx to now, you know, having a restaurant on the upper west side. So, and also being authentic as (beep) - I mean, the food is so good. We have Mom Duke Shrimp, Short-Grip, Prostrami, Suya. I mean, Cosmic Brownie Powder Sugar, Donut Ice Cream, Surrell. - Yeah, yeah. - I don't know how you think of this stuff, but it's like the fusion of this fine dining experience that also represents and holds our culture in a way that has so much pride. It's really, it's really just beautiful. That's the best way you can explain it. - It's fun, it's fun, it's fun. So, I mean, I'm extremely honored and it's so grateful. I'm able to do this. - Well, I'm excited to get into this dish from your all hours cookbook that's getting ready to come out. This is called a passion fruit matozi. - Matozi. - Matozi, that's that culinary institute stuff. 'Cause I'm like, I've never had a matozi. - Yeah, yeah, so it's a snack in Rome. It's like, it's like a baked good on the side of the street in Rome. And it's like brioche filled with whipped cream and powdered sugar. I added a little something, something to it, but this is my new cookbook. It's called All Hours. And it's based off of food that I actually eat. And it's like. - Any hour. - And any hour. I mean, there's like excerpts from like, I just had a party in LA and I whipped up something. The shrimp is actually in that book. - I remember, you made them for me. I loved it, it was great, it was great. And this is your second book because you had your memoir as well, notes from a young black chef. - This is my third book. - What's the one in between? - Recipes from a young black chef. - Oh, yeah, so this is the third book. Congratulations, me. - This is dope. - Well, let's get into the marathons. - Let's do it. ♪ Baby, it's this, he keep all my, yeah ♪ - Discover Pandora Talisman, a new collection designed to help you express every side of who you are. Because the most powerful statement you can make is being yourself. I'm a Virgo, capital V, which means I notice everything. I remember everything. And I have opinions about everything. But I keep most of them in a very organized mental filing gambling. That's the sign. Analytical on the inside, polished on the outside, and deeply particular about what we put on our bodies. So when I tell you I found my zodiac symbol in the Pandora Talisman collection and immediately thought, finally, somebody captured what it feels like to be this. I mean that. It's not just a cute charm, it's the whole ethos. Pandora Talisman understood the assignment because the whole collection is built on that idea. Personalized pieces, meaningful symbols, designs that reflect what you stand for, and how you choose to show up. I've been styling mine as a conversation starter. Someone asks about the piece, and suddenly we're talking about identity, about what it means to carry something on our body that represents who you actually are. That's not just accessories, that's communication. I've been layering mine with gold pieces on days I feel bold or wearing it solo on a thin chain when I want something quiet that still says something loud. Pandora Talisman, a new language of self-expression because every version of you deserves to be seen. Shop new styles in store or online at pandora.net. This episode is supported by FX's The Drop, a snowfall saga. Wanda and Leon are back, but this time they're chasing a different kind of legacy. As West Coast Ratt begins to take over '90s Los Angeles, Wanda is betting on a new generation of artists ready to make a name for themselves in hip-hop, but in a city where every opportunity comes with a price, they'll have to decide what they're willing to risk to leave their mark. FX is The Drop, now streaming on Hulu. I cannot tell you how much makeup I have bought that looked right in the store and then betrayed me in natural light. The audacity. I'd get home, blend it out, step outside, and suddenly, I'm looking casky ready. Two shades off and not a single person say anything. Sephora fixed that for me. Okay, they have the best brands all in one place with a range of shades, coverage levels, and finishes, so you're not just guessing and hoping for the best. Right now, I'm wearing my favorite hourglass, vanish, airbrush, full coverage, long wear concealer for natural finish. That's long lasting. Okay, it is my perfect match. Can't you tell? Get a close-up look. Plus, their beauty advisors and shade matching tools take the guesswork out entirely in store or online. So no more settling, no more close enough, visit Sephora to find your match. (upbeat music) - So Kwame, we're gonna be doing a recipe from your cookbook all hours, which comes out September 22nd. - Yes. - Congratulations again on that. - Thank you. - I have to make some concessions because obviously we're in this studio. - Yeah, but at the end of the day, it's gonna be very delicious. - I'm so excited. Well, let's get into it. - So like I said, this is a Roman snack, essentially like a dessert, and it's normally like brioche that's stuffed with whipped cream and then they put powdered sugar on top of it. I've added a little passion fruit curd. So a curd is like kind of like a pudding, kind of like the inside of a creme brulee. Ooh, that's me, I'm the creme brulee. - She's the creme brulee. (laughing) - Now I call her, that's my nickname for her, Kiki creme brulee. - Kiki creme brulee, is this the custard? - It's the custard, and then I have some passion fruit, fresh passion fruit. - Wow. - And then this is the-- - It's like the whipped cream, vanilla whipped cream. So toasted vanilla whipped cream, and we'll just put that on top. - Now the whole gag with this book is these are recipes that you would be eating at all hours. - Exactly. - So I mean like tell me your favorite in the book. - This is one of them. This is one of the favorites for sure. Another one is like the pale and each shrimp that I'm in at the crib at one time. Another one is just like-- - Favorite two items. - The sliders. - Sliders. - Yeah, the white castle sliders. - Oh my gosh, you know what for Chicago? - I love white castle. - So look, so then we scraped some of them. with the whipped cream off. We top it with a little bit of-- - Oh, it looks so good. - How sugar. I'm gonna add a little fresh squeeze of passion fruit to that. - And then just 'cause you're here, I brought some flowers. - I brought some flowers. - You can't trust a chef. I'm starting to see what this Kwame is about. This is, you know. - I mean, you know, you called it. (laughs) - Scorpio, let me just say, I don't know if I'm-- - I don't know. - I don't know, I don't know my name. - And my son and my rising. - I can't believe you don't know. I'm really gonna ask you. - Why the f*** I know that? - Because every guy's-- - Is that like common knowledge? - It is. - Okay. I've been doing all right without that. (laughs) - It's a vocal guide. - I'm like, you know what, you figured it out, girl. - What is the hardest thing that you ever learned how to cook? - The hardest thing I ever learned how to cook. I don't know, it all came pretty easy to me. - Wait, so I should probably be-- - Let me try this, let me try this, I want this. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna try to make one. - Yeah, let me try to make one. So, okay, you cut a little bit. - Hold on, hold on, like, come. - Why do I feel like I'm in one of those movies where it's like-- (laughs) - You know, she goes to the restaurant and she just-- - She needs the chef. - And she's got a bad attitude. So she's like, I know how to do it. You know, the whole thing's like, they're not getting along. He's the head chef. She already was there at the restaurant, but he came in and took her spot. I know what a custard does. - Put a little bit of custard in. - This much or a little bit more? - That's good. - Okay, it's good. - And then, you load drizzle of the passion fruit curd. Oh, that was good. (laughs) - What's the favorite thing of your family's that you make? - Part of my ox tails. They're real like my ox tails. - Ox tails. (laughs) - Why did you say that? - Why is that so funny? - Because the way they just say, they really like my ox tails. - They like my ox tails. - Why did you make it sound so like that? - You're crazy. - Please call me your crazy. - Like my ox tails. The truth is Kwame made me a drink before we came out here. - Oh, that's why you're so giggly. - That's you, you did that. Now, you did something to scrape something off. How did you do that? - Yeah, let's put a little more in there. - It's not enough. - Just so you can scrape it. There we go. - And that's a part of the vibe. - Oh, look at that. Beautiful, beautiful, perfect. - Now, you know what's interesting to me, 'cause obviously Louisiana, Creole, I'm sure you've done some French cooking in France. What do you think, when you think about the food in New Orleans or in Louisiana, and how it's in relation to the food in France, like in the differences. - Yeah, well, there's definitely that lineage. - You can see it. - Of French influence in Louisiana. So you see it, but you also see Native American influence. - Now what is that? - You see African, the filet powder. - Definitely Native American. - Yeah, you see the Germanic sausages like, and Dewey, you see the shrimp from the fishermen, from the Canary Islands. So like what I think of like food from New Orleans, it's like the truest essence of American cuisine because it's of all the different people that made it what it is. And that's what America is to me. - Now, I love that, that's beautiful, and I agree completely. Now, my question to you is, if you were to do a show, because I feel like we need a cooking show with someone like you, you are literally the new age chef. I mean, to me, there's just, it's no one better. So if we were to do a show, if we're pitching a show right now, what does it look like for Kwame to have a show? - It's gotta be true. - I gotta be able to be myself. It can't be cookie cutter. Like, welcome to Kwame's cooking show. Today, we have Kiki Palmer. It can't be any of that. It can't be a point in the shoot show. It's gotta be something that's like, maybe you're all the shots are living in my crib, and it's called Kwame's crib. And I'm like, yo, Kiki's over. One day I made her the shrimp recreate this recipe. You have 15 minutes. Go. - We just sold the shrimp. And it's, or I wake them up in the middle of the night. I'm like, yo, you know, so and so is over right now. Make them a dish, but at the same time, and order that dish from the restaurant, you better make it before that dish gets here, and it's gotta be better than it. - Yeah! - You got him saying, like, "I love this dish." - And then also I do cultural things, you know, teaching about influences from American cuisine, kind of taking them through what it takes to be the greatest chef in America, which is you have to be personable. You gotta do stuff on TV. You gotta know how to write. You gotta know how to create recipes. You gotta run a restaurant. You gotta know how to do events. So that's the show that I would want to do. So then that's real and really represents the fabric of what it is to be a great chef. Cheers to that. - Cheers to that. I also must say because you're talking about events. 2025, Met Gala. I remember I sent you an immediate message when I heard I said, "Qami, this is getting out of control." - And we were sending the table next to each other. - Yes! We had some, we were dancing all night. - We were dancing. - We had a freaking call. - We were dancing. It was incredible. - It was so good. - It was so fun to be there. - And I was just so proud of you because, honestly, no shade don't eat the best food Gala has ever seen. I mean-- - We're not gonna do that. - Everybody said that though. I cannot tell a lie. - Yeah, cheers. - Hmm. Hmm. It was a little mounted tozi. - That's how it made me feel. - Yeah. It's good, it's acidic, it's light. It's beautiful, you taste the notes of vanilla. The brioche is just like so soft. It's like the greatest snack and it's so easy to make. - This is delicious. - Thank you. - Thank you. - The cream, no one used to have more cream, more cream. - Mm-hmm, yeah. - The cream? - A little more cream. - I'm gonna do a little drizzle of that for acidity. - And how long does this typically, 'cause you came out with it, how long does this, in the book, is this stuff like, is there some quick stuff? - Yeah, it's for everybody. All levels of experience, really. This is, you just gotta make this curd and make some whipped cream. You can buy these at Whole Foods, honestly. And then, you just make your dish. - Okay, two more things I need to ask you now. - Okay. - I'm gonna do it. - Okay. - What are the things that are underused in the kitchen, it's for our seasonings that will make any dish elevated? - Salt. - That's it, huh? - People underused salt all the time. - What? - They underused it or they overused it? - My mom overused it, let me just tell you that. - I love your mom, so I'm not gonna comment on that. - But. - One time I had some food from all of a sudden. - You got it out? - You got it out? - I got it immediately. - This is good. - Yeah. - But my dad. - Perfect. - Savon. - Savon. - I love it. I think salt, salt is under utilized and then acid. You know how I use this and I bumped it up a little bit? - Yes. - Just to, like, awaken your palate. I think that's like, that's-- - It made the sweet that much more easier to take away. - Exactly. - Yeah. - Exactly, yeah. - What's the one thing that people use too much of? That you like, that's actually not any, the way they do it too much. - Too much of, I don't know. Something that people use too much of? - Pepper. - It's not pepper. I don't think home cooks use enough of anything. That's what I'm saying. - Yeah. - So, like, I wouldn't say someone's like, they put too much paprika in, like, that doesn't even taste like anything. So, I think, I don't know. I don't think they use too much of anything. - Yeah. What's your trilogy of seasoning? - The Holy Trinity. - The Holy Trinity. - Which is bell pepper, celery, and onion. That's my Holy Trinity. But I use ginger, garlic, and thyme a lot. - Ginger, garlic, and thyme a lot. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Okay. - And I have to add that to my arsenal of things, like-- - Don't do, like, what do you-- - Arsenal means you have a basis of something. - I mean, Ron and just have it. This is Kwame, everybody, Chef Kwame. Make sure you, if you get a chance, you're gonna have to plan in advance, like maybe a year in order to get to Tatiana. - I'll moan in the restaurant in Vegas, like, next month. - Oh my gosh. - You gotta come to the opening. - It's called Maroon. - Maroon. - So, it's about the Maroon people of Jamaica that escaped slavery. And in their hiding in the Blue Mountains, they used to dig pits, catch a wild animal, rub it with herbs and spices, put it in the pit, put the fire in close it, 'cause the fire will reveal their location with the smoke. And that's how jerk cuisine was born. So, it's a nod to them in the tenacity. There's a lot-- it's a Caribbean steakhouse in Las Vegas at the Sahara. - I'm ready for the historian show, too. It's given Neil deGrasse. - We'll get there when I'm, like, 50, 60, you know what I mean? Right now, I wanna do some swag. (beep) - You're the best. I love you so much. - I love you, too. - And I'm coming to the restaurant tonight. - Okay, I'll see you there. - All right. - Peace. (upbeat music) - Heritage shows up in so many ways, and what we cook, what we crave, and the traditions that get passed down without us even realizing it. Food carries memory, identity, and history. But it also creates connection, allowing people from completely different backgrounds to find common ground. Chef Kwame is proof food can be a bridge between people, perspectives, and experiences. And that when we make space for more of us at the table, everyone benefits. Be sure to check out his new cookbook, All Hours, and make our pageant fruit maritoses. Those were good, y'all. I'm about to go grab another. Baby, this is Kiki Barman. ♪ Baby, this is Kiki ♪ ♪ Baby, this is Kiki Barman ♪