This is a head gum podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another install. The moment of chat was us, which by now you might be familiar with, but if you're tuning in for the first time in these episodes, we riff on a certain topic inspired by this is us. And today, ladies and gentlemen, we are talking about marriage. That's right. And this time, we have some very special guests here with us. Our responses. Ryan, Rachel and Taylor are here with us today, so we're getting the marriage perspective from all six of us. This is us gave us so many different marriages to talk about Jack and Rebecca, Beth and Randall, Kate and Toby, McGellen, Rebecca. We got those guys in there too. They're often forgotten about. And all of the ways that relationships, those relationships evolved over the years. So today, we're going to take some of those themes and we're bringing them into our own lives. But first, let's just check in with one another. This is so cool. I feel like we talk about you guys all the time. We've been talking shit about you guys for hundreds of episodes. The rents has let me know. And that whole year. Yeah, your algorithm is like, here's what your husband's been saying. Yeah. That's our saddest story. No, it's your turn. So this is what I find interesting, though, because the bird has been here. Taylor has been on our lives. This is the first for me. This is Rachel's first time. Welcome to our mix. How are you feeling? Good. Excited? Like family. This is fun. Do you listen to the podcast? Yes. No, tell the truth. Okay. I haven't listened to all the episodes. That's okay. But I have. Yeah, I wanted to. Yes. But you haven't heard anybody say anything negative about you in any shape form or fashion. No, did I miss one? No. Did I get you? I'm telling you to make a move forward. Then you definitely don't listen to the podcast. No. But it's funny. Like whenever Rachel and I have something like this that we do together, there's like, there's something that comes over the household and it is two ways to prepare for something. Yeah. Which is to prepare on Rachel's side and to not prepare on my side. Preparation versus non-deficence like pre-discussion. Pre-discussions check in the outline, sharing answers, betting answers. Wow. Yeah. But it's just. Let me just be clear. This was a desire. It didn't actually happen. Okay. We did it last night. It was like, a little bit, we did like 20% of what I would normally do. Until I was like, we're not going to talk about all of them. That's what you do. You go over it. This is a corporate background. Like, you go over the material. I do. Yeah. I love that. Well, it's like, I have to have almost like, for me, I have to memorize almost everything so that I have room to play. Yes. That's like my process. I am. It is kind of the opposite for him. Yeah. So. Yeah. I'm curious, so when it comes to like work, like doing your work on set or something, are you similar? Do you not like to prepare? No. Yes. I am similar. Certainly, and I've talked about this to where we prepare to a certain point, but I am not like overly concerned about like the fine details of it, because I need to leave space in my body for spontaneity, right? That makes sense. That's what spontaneity, as we've discussed in our, in our couples therapy, is like my favorite thing, my lovely. But it is interesting because some people achieve spontaneity through the preparation. Right. Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. Where you feel comfortable enough, you're like, I've done all of my homework and now I can play. Yeah. Right. Right. I was like, I'm going to do my homework on the bus on the way to school. I was so fair. I was like, we can't do our homework at all. We did our homework, but I also love the idea that I don't have to stick to it verbatim. That I don't have to, like if something happens in the moment that inspires you and takes you on a slight tangent, I feel like the train tracks, right? You know this analogy, are wide enough that there's room inside of them to sort of play around. Also, I mean, with music, especially like if we're sound-shaking and we're going over, especially like an improvisational moment, which is not dissimilar from what we're about to do. If like a solo starts like really lighten it up and we're all looking at each other, like super connected and it's really working, we almost are all like, let's stop, let's stop. Right. Because it's working right now. Right. And similar to like, you know, the first time I tell a dumb joke to one of my kids and it's funny and in the second time it's not that good anymore, like it's it's so important to protect that that yeah, that that's spontaneous spirit, but also like, you know, got to know the chords. You got to know the chords. This is right. There are times when we rehearse a scene and if I know I have an idea of something I want to do, I won't do it during the rehearsal. Oh, yeah, save it. You got to save it. It keeps that spot. When we were rehearsing the comedy play, the Broadway play that I did a few years ago, one of the actors, Darcy Cardin, found a really funny moment and then she's like, we don't open for another four weeks. I'm not going to do that every day, you know, like, all right. We found it. Yeah. Now, now I'm just going to do nothing. Sure. Until it's time. Yeah. It makes sense. It makes sense. Should we start it with a game? Should we play it with a game? But before, wait, before this game, I want to say, how are you? I missed you guys. Last show. Yes. In terms of the chronology of how everything plays out, I had to miss the last couple of episodes because I was still shooting Paradise. We know. We've now finished shooting it, right? But I got to tell you, congratulations. It's really one of the first times in my life where I've experienced Foma. Oh. Yeah, we miss you. We miss you too. We miss you. We miss you. I was like, Mollie. She knows this. She's like, they're doing the podcast without me. Yeah. I don't know how I feel. Yeah. Because certain part of you thought it wasn't possible. There's a part. [LAUGHTER] By the way, it was different. It was different. It was different. There were a couple times during an interview. I was like, OK, I looked at Sully. Like, what else are we? Where should we go from here? Where, with you in the mix, there is never silence. I have lots of questions. [LAUGHTER] My name is Sterling Kate Brown, and I have a lot of questions. That is true. [LAUGHTER] But you guys had a question. Did you have Foma when me, your wife and your children were at Martha's Vineyard? Without you? Yeah. I just wanted to be doing that. OK. It was the podcast. [LAUGHTER] I just wanted to take you that up. Yeah. Come on. Here's what I've been doing. You have spent time with the kids before without me. I've never not been in the podcast. Yeah, since we started. I don't know why you're saying that. Since we started. Apples and oranges. OK, I did this. So I wanted to give you guys, because Mandy just got back from Mexico. Yeah, just a little vacation. And the time I asked if it was a spray tent, she said, this is not, this is God-given. Yeah, this is the sun. You guys are looking sun-kissed and delightful. It was a good time. Yeah, yeah. OK, that's beautiful. Chris has been doing his show. But if you guys got into it, you got in the shoot-up to Vancouver. Yeah, coming up this weekend. Going up this weekend. Yeah. You're on episode what right now? We're in the middle of four. Oh, wow. We're moving fast. We are grooving. Dead, good. Yeah. Are you still bouncing back every weekend? As much as I can. Yeah. How many here are you doing? We're doing 10 total. OK, got it. And then around episode five, filming, we should hear if we get some more. OK. Wow. If that makes sense. Yeah, knock on all the things. More within the first season. Yeah. We don't have to stop production. So it could go up to 13, it could go up to 18, something like that. OK, we'll see. So then this is where the bird and I took our first trip ever to Martha's Vineyard. Oh, OK. So beautiful. This is a bougie black dream come true for the bird. And you're going, you're going, you're going, I'm listening. I'm going, I'm going. And it was like, guys, so it is gorgeous. Yeah, yeah. The weather was like, I thought it was perfect. It was a little rainy or whatnot. But when we got back to here, it was like 100. And there it was like 78. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was a little chilly for me to be here. When we go to the beach or whatnot, I will try to find this one spot with shade. And Ryan will find a rock, like a cat, and just lay on the rock. Yes. I mean, that's what the beach is for. That's what the beach is for. Right? Yeah. I already got a fountain. I'm good. So it's beautiful. Like the architecture is, I wouldn't say it's like historical, but like, it feels like there's some sort of. Some of the buildings are very historic. Yeah. Mid-century Caucasus. Nice wraparound for porches, nice steps, and everything like that. But then August, you guys, I don't know if you knew this, is like the blacks come. Really? We're going. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. To a section of the car. The blacks come. What? Explanation. And full force. Okay. Oh, bless. Right? Oh, bless.
of people of all ages kids from probably about seven to eighteen and they're out and they are running around and parents are nowhere to be fun. Parents are like on porches or whatever and like every once in a while they come and check in and it's like can I get some money to go to an arcade? Can I get some money to go to the donut shop and they're just kicking it? How's the party break out? Like a DJ will be on the porch of a house or whatnot and just playing for that house and then people just start to hear the music and everybody just sort of. How did this become a thing? Yeah, did you guys get to have friends there? There's a place called the Inkwell. It's been a thing for a very long time. Who's in the Inkwell? It was, you know that guy, Maddie Rich. Maddie Rich did, it was in the nineties. So back in the day black folks used to come to the spot and then white folks would be like oh we don't want to get in the water because their skin comes off and so they called it the Inkwell but then we sort of just like took it on and owned it as if you want to call it that. Alright, this is our inkwell, right? So for years, especially in the month of August, right? I don't know, I think the month of August is more recent because of the film festival. A.B.F.F and there's a. Oh, yeah, there's a Mars has been your film festival. You know, there have been a few like Spike Lee goes every year. Spike Lee has a house there. He has a house there. So I think in the recent years, August has become the time to go. But for decades, it's been a vacation spot for black people on the East Coast to just go. So you can go to different spots. Like we stayed in a spot called. Edgartown. Which is more white, right? But then Edgartown and Oak Bluffs are seven miles apart and you go from one to the other and you're like oh my gosh. And everybody. Imagine setting your makeup then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue. Just plump, dewy, hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Maybe it's Mabelie. That's incredible. That is. It was pretty freaking cool. It was at a point where Andrew Brown. I think he was on like FaceTime with somebody who goes, "Dad, did we go to Barack Obama's house?" I was like, "Yeah." And he's like, "Have I met OBJ?" And I was like, "Yeah." And he's like, "I told you." "I've been told." So it's even cool for him. And I will say I was proud that my children did not embarrass me. Because you know, I mean, you guys all have lovely children. You do have lovely children. I have children that, you know, I have. Children that I wish that I had been a little bit. But I do wish that I had. I mean, I'm grateful that I tried the gentle parenting. But as I look back, I'm like, "Oh, I probably should have snatched and grabbed a little bit more." One or two knots. Just tie them into it. I mean, I hate to say that. Not an actual strike, but a good shake. A good one or two. You know, just like, you do have a crazy mom. And she will. She will go. She's gonna go me. You know what I mean? I tried to, like, regulate my emotions and be like, "Listen, mommy's very upset right now." But I'm always going to love you before that. You know, I tried to be that mom. And now I wish that they had seen a different side of me. There's still time. And now that Andrew's bigger than me, I have this concept where I'm like. Even better. I have to take him down. I'm gonna have to come with my gun. We will slug her and be like, "You have no one." You know what I mean? No one's gonna come. No one will have a bad part about it. He's bigger than you. He has about 5-10 now. Yeah. Yeah, but he's still. He's looking you out at him. He still has little fat cheeks. Yeah. So, I'm like. They got more collagen. Yeah, they have more collagen. But I do war with myself because I'm like, "Should I go medieval?" No. Yeah, just sweep the legs. No. You know what it is. Chris and Manny and I have talked about this a little bit. Like, as they get older, what not, and start to assert their independence, this is a natural part of the development. And it is not always the most comfortable part for either one of us. Yeah. Right? But it is age-appropriate behavior. And I think I keep saying it out loud because I'm reminding myself as I'm reminding you. Real talk. Okay. Because he can be a pain in the butt. But I think he's supposed to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's cool people. Let's do this again. Let's do this again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those are the flags. Yes. Welcome to the game. The marriage superlatives. Is this for both of us or is it just for the spouses? Yes. It's for both of us. It's for both of us. Okay. It's for both of us. It's for both of us. It's for both of us. It's for both of us. Okay. So I am going to. Yellow flag is, "Mmm, my somenos." And red flag is definitely not me. (laughing) - My somenos. - My somenos. - You have to say it like that. - Right, welcome to having to say it like that. (laughing) All right, the first one will start over there with Taylor and Mandy, best date planner. - Who's going for it? - Yeah, my somenos. - Oh, I think I would say you. - Oh, you would hand me the green. - I would hand you the green. - Wow, I would take for yourself. - I would go in the middle. - You'd go in the middle. - Yeah. - Wow. - Okay. - Who plans the most? - Tell me a good date that I planned. (laughing) - That's a good question. I just think you're inherently like a more, like you're a better listener and therefore a more thoughtful person in just like generally speaking. - Wow. - I think. - Really generally speaking. - And then Mandy's like, let's get dinner. (laughing) - I mean, I think I am a meticulous planner, but I think you're just more encompassing in terms of like how thoughtful you are about things or trips or places or like, oh, remember that coffee shop we read about like in blah, blah, blah. Like, let's plan our day where we go there. Like, I'm less, I'm more just pragmatic of like, okay, let's get from point A to point B and make sure that the kids are fed and they're snacks. - Also dates are such a funny thing in our lives. - Right now, so if we go now, we can be back before the day. (laughing) - We should be fair. - We should be fair. - We should be fair. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Be so efficient. Do you want us to go next? - You go next. - You go next. - Bird, what do you say? Best state planet. - Who plans a better date? - Definitely. (laughing) Yeah. - Yeah. - Oh, that was a person. - Explain. I have analysis paralysis. So there's like 17 things I wanna do and I think I can do 18 of them. And then I end up doing none of them and being mad about the fact that I didn't get to do anything. And then I'm like, well, it's time to go to bed. - I don't know, but he would prefer it. I think your preference would be if I was to be like, okay, listen, this is what we're gonna do today. - I prefer you even just held a yellow flag. - I know, I know. (laughing) But it then becomes, I think you've taken on the mantle of something that is not necessarily innate in you because you, we worry you're not gonna have. - Right, but you've learned that over time because you're like, well, she knows I'm not romantic. She's more of a romantic. Why doesn't she just do it? And I'm like, because I am 17, and I don't know which one, 'cause we only have one day and if we go here and food is nasty, no. (laughing) - And they, yeah, they, yeah, you know. - You know, I see your time. - A lot of our decisions are made by not making decisions. Sometimes in that process of elimination. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You just surf Netflix until you don't make a decision, and go to bed. - Yeah. (laughing) - No. - Yeah. - Yeah. - No, it's like, oh. - Yeah. - That was a lot of really interesting key art. - Yeah. (laughing) - And 30 seconds of trailer. - Yeah, how long have you guys been married? - 20. - 20? - Yeah. - Eight. - Eight. - Yeah. - Eight. - And we're 16. - 16. - Yeah. - That. - Different goals. - They're all even. - Marriage goals. - Well, wait, what about you, sir? - Yeah. - What about you? - Yeah. - Who's the best they plan to be between you two? - Oh, you put it in the thing, that's cute. - Like, best? - Okay. - For frequency? - Okay. - For frequency? - Yes. - So he takes, yeah, so I'll be Marcel Manos. - Okay. (laughing) - Marcel Manos. (laughing) - I guess I'm more like, I'm like, we're going, here's where we're going because we plan the night. I know this restaurant's gonna be, it's our jam. We like find our favorite places and then it becomes our place for a hot minute 'til there's a new place, you know? - Yeah, of course. - And then it feels a little bit like special, but it's easy, like I'm like, okay, what's our new place? Then once I know the new place, I'm like, okay, I will plan the date, let's just do it. - Yeah. - Got it. But he is a little bit more thoughtful, I would say, like similarly, well, wanna do something a little bit more spontaneous, right? Like, try to make it happen. - Roll the date a little bit. - But again, we are, the four of us over here on this site have children under the age of seven. - Yeah, right. - And so dating, in the last, you know. - Looks a little different. - Yeah, I like the day dates, you know? - Yeah. - I think it's all a day dates. - A lot of day dates, like-- - A spontaneous date is fun. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You do have to be receptive to those things, because if you're waiting for the night and each time, sometimes like the fatigue of just parenting through the day and then trying to do something at eight? - Yeah. - No. - Chop, please. - Especially the best thing we can do for each other is to just go to sleep. - Yeah, the best pilot that I've, I read a pilot once years ago that was called 48 hours 'til Monday. And it was like the difference between, like you had a, Weekends used to mean something and then this whole pilot was like
just them surviving the weekend, and how Monday felt like the new Friday. - Yeah. - You know when you become a fan. - You get them back in the school, and then they're so-- - They got scared to do it. - Totally. - They're so excited. - Seven hours a day. - Yeah. - You're like, "Oh, thank you." - Yeah. - Oh, yeah, I love that pilot. I mean, pilot was great, but I loved the con. 'Cause I was like, "Oh, yeah." Like, there was a time when people were like, "What are your weekend plans?" It's Friday, G-I-F, and then you're like, "T-G-I-N-E." - Yeah. (laughing) - It's Monday. - Yeah, I'm trying so hard to get back from Vancouver all the time when we come home in the weekends, and then if I'm home on a weekday, I'm like, "Oh, I just got to get home. I got to get home." All right, let's get you somewhere else for eight hours. (laughing) - Yeah. - Let me get you for eight, eight, and a half hours. (laughing) - You have aftercare at school? Okay, great. - Yeah. - We've got this sterling. We would have sometimes when we had nothing to do, and he would wait till five o'clock on the dot. He would not get our kid at 458. He would not get our kid at 459. - I'm taking a van to the office. - I'm gonna allow you-- - And he was in doubt at the clock. - He was like, "This is $45 a second." And I'm getting all my money's worth. - That's right. - I'd be like, "Shit, go get the kid." He would stand outside and be like, "No, no." - Well, watch the child. - Watch the child. - What's the next one? - All right, the next one. Biggest over-packer. - Oh, come on, come on. - Oh, please. - That's not even-- - Oh, give me this. - Give me all the money. Give me all the money. - Yeah, go ahead and pick it up, Rach. - Yeah, go ahead and pick it up. - Everyone, pick it up, yeah. - Everyone, everybody. - Mandy will, like, it'll be like Tuesday, we're leaving on a Friday. If she's gonna be packed yet, I'm like, no. - She's a star batter, I'm gonna do really. - You wanna pack on Thursday night for 10 minutes. - We're leaving to go on a trip next Tuesday. I'm like, when can I start packing? Like, I'll definitely start this week. - Now, this is, this is an established role too, right? Like, Rachel packs for the kids. - Cracks, yeah, yeah. - One, because she's really great at it. - Yeah. - Two, she needs to do it so that she knows it's been done. - That's the truth, right? - Yeah, yeah, there's not even a complaint when, maybe. I'm like, I'm not really carrying my weight here and she's just like, no, no, this is the way it should be. - Yeah. - But if we are flying, if we're not flying somewhere, if we're going somewhere in the car, that's when things get hairy, guys. That's when appliances start getting put in the car. That's when, I'm like, I'm like, did you pack the blender? - No, fire. - Oh, you can fire. - You go into an Airbnb. - Oh, yep, yep, yep, oh, yeah, 100%. - Of course. - Other things, yeah. - Okay, well, okay, I did, okay, one time. - Did you pack the air fryer? - No, no, but I did bring the Vitamix one time. - Yes, this one's safe. - Here's the thing, like, I love it. - You need a good blender. You're gonna make a smoothie, you're gonna. - I'm just saying, it's overpacking. That's all, that's all. - I feel like- - I feel like- - It's preparation. I'm over-shared, right? You have to be over, especially when you have kids, 'cause there's always a time when you decide, I don't really, they're old enough. I don't need a change of clothes. They're fine. - That's what it is. - And at the time, they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - But we also sometimes pack like, we're not going to a place that has a CVS. (laughing) - But then there's a lot of worse people going to the CVS, and they're like, and you can see it in your mind's eye on your counter, and you're like, I don't know, just bring it. I was gunna bring it. - Yeah, exactly. - This is interesting. I think there's a nature between how we are socialized and what's in society, men and women, just the difference between a wallet and a purse. Like, men sort of just bring like, what is the bare minimum that is necessary in order to function out in the world? And they're just like, no, we gotta be prepared for anything. Because kids will come to me. I don't know how this for you guys. When they want to play, they come to dad. When they need to be taken care of, they go straight to the bird. They're like, "Dad, I know what that is." - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Do you have a band-aid? Do you have ointment? Yeah, even me, I was like, "Hey, bird, you got any lotion in your tummy?" - Who is that? - You know what I mean? - Yeah. Like, it's lotion on. - Yes. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - Okay, next one. - All right, most likely to make us late. - Wow. - Come on. - Is there something stronger than you? - Yeah. - Is there anything on you? - I mean, you're not, this is a unanimous. - Yeah. - Also, it's funny because it's like, like, (laughing) - No, no. - No, no. It's the last one though. - Like, if it's inferred even the most, like, gently, that we need to be moving, which I never do. - You don't. You're very good at that. - But if it's sort of like, like. - What time do we have to be there? - Yeah, that's as bad as it ever gets. Which time is we'll be there? And then she's like, "I'm almost ready." - Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughing) - Like, it's so, when there wasn't any baggage, even in the government. - Mandy has to step out of the front porch. Are you sitting in the car? - Yeah. - Are you sitting in the car? No, I get it. I'll be with you momentarily. - That is 100% happening. - And I get, I'm down to be late. - I do not care. - No, but I'll be in the car. - Be careful. - But I am, right? - I get it, cool down. - No, it's like the blueie episode where they go to the pool. Have you guys seen this? - I have not. - Never mind. - You wouldn't. - Well, I have young children. - No, no, no. - They don't have the sunscreen 'cause mom's not there. - Yeah, because boring things are important too. That's the moral of the lesson. So they all rush to the pool 'cause mom's not quite ready yet. And she's like, grab the pool stuff. And do they grab the pool stuff? - Yeah, yeah. - Of course they are. - No, no, no. So they have nothing. They don't have floaties, they don't have anything. No sunscreen. So they're just sitting there moping until mom shows up with all the stuff. And then the lesson has learned that boring stuff is important to you. - Yeah. Most likely to make friends with a stranger. - Oh. - Um. - I actually think, recently, you think so? - I'll start like, come on. - It's more me. - Yeah, like it's more you know. - It's more me. - It used to be me. - You think so? - You don't think so? - You know what? Like I have, I like people. And I like going up and meeting people. But you know what's also interesting. Sometimes because people will know who I am before. I know who they are. It's, I feel like I've become more reticent recently. Because I feel like I'm on unequal ground. - Does that make sense? - They're acting like party friends. - Yeah. - Yeah. And that's one of those things where like, even in the venue, you know, you would go to a party. - And the venue was different though. - And I would be like, - Because that was your. - That was the vent. - It was the black bougie people feeling breath. (laughing) - You know the best part about all of this is like, when black people see us and they're like, oh my god, that of it. And then there's like white people who will like. (laughing) And then you can see them with her because, yeah. Especially if it's us together, because white people have no idea who I am. Because like, you know, but my, like, - You're beautiful now. - No, no, no, no, no. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - I am, but like, when we were in Chicago, Chicago was different. It was like, I was like, oh wow, this is a whole different world for me. Because it's Chicago. It's like, black people central. And it's black women, me and black women. We are the same. - You're the type. - And so, you know, they know who I am. They, I love you, but I can't ask her, you know, it's like, hey girl, you know, they're so good. I know who you are, girl, I love you. You know, and I'm like, thank you, girl. And they're always the type they do. - That's great, that's great, that's great. - Like, who, who, me and who are you? - Yeah. - It's just so cool. - So that's also the interesting thing too. Because, right, similar to what you were saying, once upon a time, Saul is like, how you kind of like, really enjoy soaking it up. - Yeah. - I'm sort of like a moving target now. Because like, if I stay in motion, they can't like sort of trap me down. But the bird will stop in the heart, be like, hey girl, hey. And then like, there's a conglomeration. And then I was like, I gotta keep moving. - Yeah. - Otherwise, it kind of become, yeah. - Yeah. - Am I? - No, I was just thinking, it doesn't matter what I was thinking. - It does, yeah. - This is what you're thinking. - No, don't. - No, 'cause, okay, you're gonna be bad. - I don't care. - But I was thinking, I was like, if that is true, then why did we have to stay at the hotel we stayed in? We could have stayed at a different hotel that I'm at. - Tell them about the hotel. - So we stayed at this hotel. It was very, very, very, it was in Chicago, and I'm gonna say the name of the hotel. - Okay. - Because I have point there. - We didn't, I didn't hear the, I should have asked you off camera. - Yeah. - I don't want anybody to take my points away. - Yeah, don't take a point. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - Cut to, I'm stronger, my silver, I've worked hard for my silver. - Tell them, tell them, tell them, I responded to the hotel. - Okay. - Well, the thing was, it was, you know what you're, you know what you're getting into with certain hotels. - Yeah. - That's why they have a reading system. - That's why they have four, five stock, right? - Yeah. - And my whole thing was, if we stay in a hotel that's not as busy and it's not as accessible, then we all win, right? - Yeah. - Because there, you won't have a busy vibe. - Obviously, we'll have our privacy, right? - Yeah. - And I, you stay in a place that's a little bit more, you know that, listen, the bathroom was a trap was the way. - No, no, no, no, no, no. - Like if your bathroom is a trap was the way, I'm not staying here. - I didn't, like you didn't mean, no, no, no, you couldn't afford an architect. Come on. - I'm not saying it. - Like why I got to sit. - The architect designed a trap was the way. - I can't say it. - Stupid. - That's not an architect. You just had a plan. - The bathroom is functionable. - I need an architect from my room. - No, no, yeah, you need like, and I need a role, and I need slippers. And if I go to hotel and you don't have woven slippers, then that's not. - That's not a hotel. - That's a motel. - You know, I've never even thought of a motel. - That's a motel. - That's a motel. - I thought they were just novelty thinking. - Can sit at that before. - And that is why I. - So we wrote the woven slippers. - But the reason why we stayed in the hotel that we stayed in, 'cause my buddy's 50th birthday party, and he got a block of rooms from there, and I wanted to be close to where everybody was going. - Sure. - Fair enough. - Fair enough. - Fair enough. - That's not the way to put it. - But did you, did you switch hotels, or did you stay there? - She stayed in Chicago longer, 'cause she had an event for the NAACP, in which she moved into the four seasons. We can stay that out loud, because she likes it. - What? - You know what?
- It was close, it's been that we all travel away from like our families and stuff. I feel like you are allowed to go and like have a luxury experience. - I want the word to be comfortable too. In this situation, I wanted to be close to the 50th birthday party, but next time, I'm not gonna do it again. It's just she got it halfway. - You were upset with me. You were like, "I just wish you could be comfortable." - It's speaking of you walking to the hotel. You walking to the hotel and you're like, "Oh." (laughing) (laughing) - You're all with me. - I mean it was. (groaning) - I can't. - Thank you. - I'm with you. - Here you go. - You get carpet, weird to me out in hotel. Yeah. - Yeah, I will. - In any hotel. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, that's who the slippers come in. - No, no, but the carpet in hotels, it's face it. - Oh, what are you wearing? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - No, no, that's why you need those slippers. - I don't know. - Yeah, I'm like, you have a dark carpet. - I know what you're trying to, huh? - Yeah. - Sin. - Like a scene. - Siniquity. - Yeah, but I still feel jealous of what's the next question. - Well, let's get into some of these, some of these more relationship-based questions. - Okay. - Let's do it. - Okay. - What was, Rachel and I have renewed our couples, yeah, the game's over. - Yeah, it's over. - That was fun. - That was fun. - Yeah, I like it. - The Taylor Rachel and you won. You won the game. - Great. - Okay, great. - You won the game. - The other one. Yeah, great. You're winners. (laughing) - Rachel and I have recently renewed our couples therapy. - Okay. - Which is going great in all of the most painful ways. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And this is what we were talking about earlier. This is a side note. We had couples therapy in different countries. We zoomed with our couples therapist, me and Canada, Rachel in California. Best session we have ever had. - Wow. - They usually say don't have tough conversations unless you can look each other in the eye. Turns out that's really a problem for Rachel and I. Like our couples therapists is like, you know, you two should do it in the car where you're both looking straight ahead. (laughing) And you can keep like a little bit of a gap. - That's it. - Somebody said that to us, do you remember the same things? Have tough conversations in the car? - No, but we're sitting next to each other though. They're talking about- - We're talking about me and I can't tell. - Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like if you're sitting in the car, like you said, you can kind of- - But I would recommend to do it internationally. - Yeah. (laughing) - If the car works, that's gonna go real nice. - Yeah, I agree. - The distance seemed to sort of foster an openness that's harder to do when you're in the same space? - I think for the sharing part, obviously if you're like repairing something or what you've gotta be like, eye to eye. But if there's some hard things that you're just kind of like been holding on to or whatever, for us it was just easier to just share it. - Not being next to each other. - Yeah. - And there's also like, I don't know from me at least, when I'm out of town, it's like I have all these plans to be a better person upon arrival back at home. I'm like, I'm gonna talk to my parents more. I'm gonna see this friend I haven't seen in a long time. Mandy and I are gonna like go on all these dates. We're not gonna need to sleep. And like that doesn't, and then I get home and it's like back into all the same old habits. And so like there is like a level of commitment when you're apart. I think it's also that thing where a little bit of distance allows you to actually see more clearly sometimes. I think both yourself and your partner. So I think that was also like what it was too. - It reminded us back. We did one session of couples therapy before we got married and the couples therapist essentially asked us this question that's on our sheet here. What's the biggest thing you are nervous about being married to another person? - Ooh. - And Rachel's response was, - I don't even remember. - Losing my identity. - Oh, you're like losing my style, yeah. - And mine was, - That's right. - Mine was better. - Mine was clutter. (laughing) And I was like moving in with a messy ass person. That's what I'm worried about. Sorry. So if we can talk to this woman while we're here. - Hang on a minute, we have children. - Hang on. - Hang on. - That's way clutter-wise. - We need to act. - Children do sort of change your relationship to clutter, but Sully, before the children came, one of Ryan's many nicknames in Addendum to the Bird is the spreader because it just, - Yeah, I thought this space was for me. - And now it's not, it's like, why is all of your stuff? I can't find my stuff because your stuff is okay. - Are you going away to Vancouver every seven days for 10 days? - To organize your space? - No. - Just the way that you want it. - I tell them it's so nice. - But then I come home and find all the little new hidden pieces of clutter that have arrived. - Oh. - I didn't know we needed that one. - I didn't know we needed four of those. (laughing) - Oh, look at that. Thanks, Amazon. - I'm taking this very personally for you on your bed. - I don't remember I talked about it. - But it was like the biggest thing you were nervous about when you were getting married maybe personally or emotionally or relationally. Or maybe there weren't any worries. - I wasn't worried. I, I, I. - Second rodeo. - Second rodeo. - You knew what you wanted. - No, she knew what you wanted. - She knew what she wanted. - It couldn't have been worse than the first time. So it was like, I am not effing worried about. - I thought it was you. - Yeah, listen. - You're killed. - That's the fear. - You got to swear me. - Over the bar it was so low. (laughing) - I was like, you're good. - I was like, you're good. - You're good. - I'm so good. - You remembered my birthday. You're the best husband ever. - Kind of. Pretty much not far from the truth. So I wasn't like the minute that I met Taylor. I very quickly knew I was like, this is the father of my children. This is my person. This is who I went through all of this other crap to find. - Yeah. - So it was like, I truly wasn't worried about anything. Being good enough for him. That was probably the only thing. Seriously, like making sure that I was the best version of myself to deserve. You. - Can you nail that? - Oh. (laughing) - And me, my god. - I love it. - I love it. - I love it. - I love it. - I love it. - I love it. - I love it. - This is cool. - It's a kind of indirect answer to the question. But I remember when we, well, I'll start with this. I saw the song right about. It's not his name's Bill Callahan, who's so great. There's this song called Pigeons. And in one of his song, in that song, he's a limo driver driving newlyweds in the back seat. And the newlyweds at one point in the song ask him, like, you have any advice for us newlyweds? 'Cause they saw a ring on his finger. And he says, when you're dating, you are the only two people in the world. And when you get married, you marry the entire world. And it was really profound. He extrapolates in a really cool way. But just, I think that gets to what my nerves were when we were getting serious because I was used to just live sleeping in the back of the van and just being like this guy that didn't really know what I was doing within the next few months just with music and stuff. And so I remember being like, I'm not a grownup. And like, that's not how I roll. I don't know how to be a responsible partner. Not in any like, not like, I don't mean with like cheating or anything like that. Like that was like all in and that was all abundantly clear. But it was more just like, I don't know the things I don't know. And I'm worried about that. I just want to show up for you as an adult. And I just feel like this like overgrown child because of what my job is. - Yeah. - Had you had no long-term relationship prior to-- - Like three months, six months. Nothing ever likes. It was like the idea of living with someone was immediately horrifying and impossible. And then with her, it was-- - It wasn't more you'd, I was horrifying. (laughing) - But with her, it was immediate like, oh yeah, we're gonna live together. And that's like all of those fears and stress are totally gone. Like I want to do that yesterday. Like it was not-- - Man's hit the same thing like that. 'Cause your correspondence was mostly over phone or text. - When we first met. - We first met and you're like-- - Yeah, and you're like, I love this guy. - Oh yeah, before we kissed. - We hadn't even kissed each other. And I was like, I am in love with you. - That's sad. - You can't have her at all. - Yeah. (laughing) - The players of Canada really bring out the romance. - I love that. - That's awesome. So, the clutter thing is funny 'cause I can vibe on that. But I think the unique thing about the burden, and I think you may agree with this, but we don't always agree. We have a lot of history. And that history is also, it's a good thing in terms of like how well we know each other and we've been a part of each other's lives since we started adulthood. But it also means that there is a lot of baggage and a lot of things to unpack as well. I think probably both of us through a certain extent are like, have we done too much to get over to move forward? 'Cause I think that was probably-- - Yeah. - I mean, by the time I proposed, I was like, I'm good. Like I know who I want to be with et cetera. And I think because the dude, historically, in this traditional heteronormative thing is the one who's gonna be making that decision to say, will you accept me as that? I think it may have taken Rye even a little bit longer to sort of be like, you remember what we did? You remember what that, and so to get to a place where you can remember something without reliving something? - That's interesting, man. - Is a big one. I don't know what you're saying.
But that's probably yeah. I mean, it's taking me a long time to understand that I'm the type of person that doesn't get comfortable until way into a thing, right? Like I have a 15 year old and it's true, it just happened on Margaret's been here, I have a 15 year old and a 10 year old and now I want children. Like now I'm like, yeah, that would be great, I know how to do baby, and he's like, are you been here that I was like, yes, but you know, I'm I'm he's been talking about it for two years, I got to Stanford for two years, or maybe like three or four. No, not three or four. Yeah, I was like, why didn't I go to a heart and I made a mistake, I didn't tell this is ridiculous, and who do the Stanford over Harvard? What kind of idiot? I mean while I'm missing the whole thing. Yeah, cut to senior year, I'm sitting there and graduating, I don't want to leave this wonderful place, who leaves this place, you know what I mean? Like, and every, at every turn, I'm like a good 18 to 24 months behind my decision. So I think, but I didn't realize that about myself, it's a very recent. She is somebody who's capable of making a decision. And then torturing myself over the decision, I'll make a decision, I torture myself to make the decision, I make the decision, and then I torture myself over the decision, and I thought that it was about the decision itself, and it's taken me after we got married, is when I realized, oh, this is a me thing, and it's not an indication of the decision. I'm going to do this, if the decision is not again, if I go to McDonald's, I go to McDonald's three times, like once every four years, okay, so this is really important, this is for sure. For lay a fish, or how am I going to lay a fish, or how am I going to lay a fish, do I get that chicken nuggets, oh my God, I just fell in love with you so much, I know this. Christ in a basket, get the flammest, get it all, get it straight, again, I would never have thought that until just, not that I'm going to lay a fish, but you know what I mean, like I just, every time, not that I have to be ashamed of going to McDonald's. You know what I mean, like so I've discovered about myself, and so I think all of the concerns that I had and the worries were just about what if I'm making the wrong choice, what if I'm making the wrong decision, what if this is not what I'm supposed to do, I'm not like, you know, what's the face of it all, you know. But it was never, but it was never I never thought that you've got to get up and walk it all. This has been a really great session. I will say in not even in my defense, I never felt like he was someone that was not going to be a wonderful spouse, it was always very much like is, you know, is fate is this the right thing to do if I made the right decision, what if I messed this whole thing up, what if I messed him up, what if I mess me up, what if you know, it was that versus, you know, is he going to be a good spouse drilling us to high? If you're watching us a day early on, you'll see behind us photos from our wedding day, each, each of us on the day that we were wed, is there a, is there a memory or an image that stands out most to you guys from your wedding day? For me, it was how emotional Chris got during the vows, it was really sweet. We're on the stage. I had of course, you know, memorized them, but also had a key card and like, I was like reading it and I'm like, I'm like performing them, you know, just because I was on a stage and all this kind of stuff, but he was like really feeling, you know. What did you say about Rachel? Nothing written down. Where is being? No, it was really, that was really sweet. I mean, that's my, I mean, of all like the images that are pressed into my head is, is Rachel walking down the aisle towards me and just like falling apart, tone, also wearing a dress. Yeah, as we see. Yeah, you're killed. Yeah. Yeah. You guys look great. You guys look so great. What about you guys over there? What's your memory? I mean, it's not dissimilar. I remember, I remember vividly being like, I'm not going to be able to say these vows. I think I was like whispering them in order just to like get them out because if anything above that was just like broken me open. I was already a kind of a wreck, but yeah, I remember we were at our house. We got married at our house. So it was like, very sad. It was very special. It was small, just a few people there and just like, I walked out of my bedroom and just like walked to where we covered our pool. And so everybody was sitting on the pool. I walked to water. I walked to water. Yeah, just like Jesus. Jesus. That's what that was our theme for the way. Was it Mandy is Jesus? Yeah, the other it was that moment. And then the moment, um, you guys were there for this part. But when my dad walked on stage and like with his cane really slow like a scene out of Willy Wonka and everyone's like, what's this old man? And then he throws the can grabs his mic stand and goes into sex machine by James Brown and the dance went from empty. Yeah, to completely jam. Yeah, a beast. That was his essence. That was for you. Yeah, that was so I'm curious with it. So we we eloped. But then we also had another ceremony like 14 months later, something like that. So which one do you is sticks out, which one you want to talk about? Cause I may pick the other one if you pick one. I think the first one, the first one was also at a house. It was our best friends house. Correct. And I guess I just remember your steadfast madness, steadfast didness. Like, you know, you were so like 10 toes down, bro. You are. And it was, it was, it was, it was a wonderful, it was a wonderful. And I was like, we are getting married enough like a living room. Like, are you, you're good with and you were just like, here, biggest. I don't care. Yeah. And I was like, that is the sweetest thing anyone's ever done for me. Solid, solid as a rock, man. I think so I'm going to pick the second one because I had this, I think I've mentioned this to you guys. She had this wonderful plan for this beautiful, long like oak table, whatever it was. And and it was like owed to the first Thanksgiving where everybody was going to sit around and have this reception. And right, we do our couples dance, right? Love, love, love. Donnie, Donnie halfway. And and Ryan's like, I need some turns, man. You got to put on a show. You're an actor. Let's go because I was just, you know, being sweet. Yeah, we're not going to sway. Come on. I was like, I want some band. Yeah, yeah. She also said that we had dance lessons. Look at you. See, you guys, you guys, you guys can group. Okay. She also told me she said, um, you should memorize your vows. She said, you need you to be off book or whatnot. And I was like, all right, I'll be off book. And then this broad comes up with like a whole notebook. I was like, what's going on? This is the beginning of marriage. Um, but as we were, as I was doing the last dip on love, love, love. And we were about to go sit down at the table. God was overwhelmed with tears and decided to cry. Oh, it felt like somebody had pulled like us, like a slide back and just water just started to pull. It wasn't like rain. The caterers had their row to the caterers had to grab all the food off the table running to like her parents had this 14,000 square foot home, where we got married in the back. So we go into the downstairs of the house and it becomes like one of the dopest house parties. It was. They were just like serving the kind of coming. It was. And yeah, I still, we still have for the next morning. I saw the like carnage of my table. Holding me up like that with my day. There's also, I remember when I walked down the aisle, I said, I'm going to wear sunglasses. I'm not going to tell Ryan because if I told Ryan, she's not going to let me wear my sunglasses. But then when I get up there, I'm going to take my sunglasses off so she doesn't know that I word sunglasses. Everybody told on you. They find out later. But as long as I did, I didn't know that sterling is going to wear sunglasses. Everybody. So tell us what you want us to do. Same for you got when I saw the bird come down, bro. Yeah. It's it's magical. Like like you robbing yourself of a special moment if you see them in the dress beforehand, right? Like because like you're saving it for that moment. And this is a fun question for this segment, which one of which one of you would survive longer in the zombie apocalypse? Oh, this is a trigger for Ryan. I feel like we've talked about this before to dinner. Zombies are a thing. The zombies are definitely my thing because I know that I wouldn't. Like the minute the news was like, hey, zombie, I'm just going to just come and say it's out. I don't want to be around. No, I don't want to be around. Yeah, eventually it gets you. So what, I'm just going to like try to outrun it until it's like you're in a corner and you're like, well, here's the thing. I feel like I'd be more helpful in the spirit realm anyway. Let's just like eliminate and then I can like become like, you know, the guy, the ghost that haunts you or helps you. I could I'd probably try to like talk it out with the zombies and just get my head ripped off.
(all laughing) - You're a human, you're more somewhere. - Somewhere, you're a man, it isn't. - Exactly. - That's the question about zombies. Like, are they dead and just reanimated? - I'm loving it. - Is your soul just in some liminal space? Like, I can't move on. - Are they somewhere in there? - They are the undead, I believe. - Wow, that's really sucks that's going down. Like, I have too many questions about it and I don't want to find out the hard way. - Are you, are you, like, your character on paradise? You're gonna just, you're gonna figure out it. - You have to experience this one. - This one is of a post, the image that you could talk does zombie down, it's gonna be him. - Yeah. - You guys know this, yeah. - Yeah. - It's like a zombie. - I don't know, I don't know. - I think it was the whole group. - Everybody out there, like, oh, that old straw. - I don't know, they're like ripping me apart. (all laughing) And he's just like, guys, I don't know why you guys are so obsessed with these zombies. - They're really cool and they're really misunderstood. - Yeah, he's got a golden glove in one hand and an ambient metal effect. (all laughing) - Smash. - I'd have your tried flesh, I mean, you know, don't knock until you try it. - The little season I'm on it, you know? And everyone else is like, what? (all laughing) - I think I find a question. - You would definitely find a way. - Life finds a way. - Yeah, life finds a way. - There you go. - This one is already ascended to heaven. - Yeah. (all laughing) - Does anybody learn anything from watching the marriages on this is us? What were the big takeaways from, I mean, (all laughing) - Perfect. - Opening a bear. (all laughing) - Akahal will get you through. (all laughing) - Well, Jack Pearson, then they're early up somewhere. - He figured it out. - And what do you think, this is a follow-up question, if this is kind of easier? What do you think makes someone continue choosing their partner after 10, 8, 20, 30 years? - That's a really good question. - That is a good question. In terms of learning things, I feel like for the most part, the couples on the show fought fair. And by fighting fair, they weren't calling each other out of their names, you know what I'm saying? 'Cause there's something that can happen. If you call me something that's not sterling or something, I was like, I can stop listening. - Yeah, yeah. - 'Cause it's like, no, it's not my name. Why are you talking to me like that? I feel like on this is us, they spoke to each other. Even when they were in heated disagreements, like it was like, this is the problem that I'm having. 'Cause sometimes you get sidetracked and tone can become an issue and you're like, why are you talking to me that way? They stayed on track. - Yeah. - You know what I'm saying? The central argument never ceased to be this one. Whereas in life sometimes, something else can happen in the midst of the argument and you get pissed off about that other thing, besides the thing that you were originally addressing. So I think we have learned, Ryan and I, to fight fair, right? And it's, fights don't happen that much anymore. And earlier in our relationship, because we are areas in Leo, they were combustible. We had a lot of fire in the house. And over time, like I guess we sort of just realized like, oh, that didn't get us where we wanted to go, did it. Like I think, I think, I think, right? And even probably me, on occasion two, were guilty of escalating instead of just trying to be like, or wait, we still love each other. We need to like figure this thing out, right? But sometimes it just felt good to have bombast. - Sure. - And good. It do assert, I think, I think. - When we were much younger. - Okay. - Because you know, like, you know each other since I don't know what she's in. - No, it didn't. - When we were much younger, I do think I, I think there was an enjoyment of pushing each other's buttons. - Sure. - And seeing how we can enjoy it. - I can enjoy it. (all laughing) - Make sure you're watching us a day early on Hulu for all of the facial expressions. - But I, the fact that you say enjoyment to me, like also implies that there was like a security there. Like we're safe. We love each other so much that like we can do this and not get fearful about it. - I think that if I give myself any amount of credit for anything and I don't want to overstate this or whatnot, I think there's something about Ry that knew that like, to a certain extent, and then at a certain point, I felt like I might be taken for granted a little bit, is that like you could say or do anything and he's not going anywhere. But I also wanted to let her know that I wasn't going anywhere. But then at a certain point, I was like, but she's got to stop talking like that. (all laughing) - That's a healthy boundary. - Yeah. - That's setting the healthy boundary. And when you get out, you don't have, I mean, this is all fun, but neither one of us had language. We didn't have a boundary, I didn't know with that. You know, a lot of what we is common sort of conversation now about therapy and all of those things. That wasn't necessarily something that we had access to when we were 18, 19, 20, even grad school. Like, we were in grad school and they were just like-- - Not a place for romance to flourish. - Like, use all of that in your work. Like, yeah, like, call them that, say that, do that. - Sure. - Roll around in that dirt, you know? That was kind of the whole point for three years, whereas our job to do that, you know? And it was presented to us like, this is the only way that you can access your true potential as an artist. It's to go in the dark and you know what I mean? - You did. - They tell you, you gotta be miserable being an artist. - That's what they tell you. - I don't believe it anymore. - Really, but it's again, it's like you have, I think it takes a lot of maturity and wisdom and understand and meeting people who aren't miserable. And not to say that everybody in grad school was miserable, but everybody in grad school was miserable. You know, our teachers were kind of cramudgingly. Like, it wasn't a play. They were. I mean, you wouldn't necessarily say that any of them were particularly joyful or spry people. You know, they all, everybody had a bit of a dark cloud. - Jim Calder. - Oh, okay, yeah, I lied. Jim Calder, Jim Calder. But he was our game teacher, he was the clown. Yeah. Yeah, but Dan Cork, oh Dan Corkle was amazing. Okay, but the point is, is that him, Dan Corkle? But Dan Corkle was the one who did say, the bigger the person, the bigger the artist. And he was the only person that gave us a gave me personally a glimmer into, you can be all of the things. It doesn't just have to have the darkness and embracing the darkness and to lead you through your artistic life. - And it also tracks for that to be necessary when you are in your earlier 20s. Like, not dissimilar from watching our five-year-olds, like, need to see how far he can take in. - Sure. - To be like, that's actually not cool. But like, I'm glad you now know the feeling or know how to play around in that. But yeah, like, it's funny, you say like, you don't have to be miserable to be an artist, but maybe you have to be in order to be an artist. Oh, sorry, maybe to be a 20-something-year-old artist, you have to be miserable. In order just to know what it all feels like. And then you actually get pretty good at it. And you're like, actually don't have to go there, but I've been there. - Yeah. - You have to be open to all the motions but you don't necessarily have to hold onto them. - Right, right, right. - But if you learned from watching the couples on this as us in terms of your own. - Well, Randall and Beth, I mean, I just loved watching them. I mean, speaking of fighting fair, and I think the thing that stands out to me the most is how they would have that conversation about like, what's the worst that could happen? - Uh-huh. - To that degree, right? - Yeah, yeah. - Where's Kaye Scenario? I love that they did that out loud because I think a lot of us do that in our heads. - Yeah. - And we don't verbalize it because it's either fearful or unsafe or you don't want your partner to think you're spinning out or what if you say it and it comes true or like there's all these like, there's a lot of anxiety I think around sharing like your catastrophizing thoughts when you get attached to them and how dispelling and how cathartic it was just to see that lived out in action in a safe place and so that was like what really stuck out to me. And I think it gives other people permission too to be like, I actually do it with my kids too. I'm like, even with bear this morning, I'm like, what's the worst that could happen? Let's go there. And I was thinking about Beth and Randall. And I'm like, well, let's just go there together and then if that's the worst that could happen, let's make a plan. - That's cool. - And then we came back from it and he's like, oh, if I have a plan, then it's not so scary. - There's something about saying it out loud that also demystifies to a certain extent. Like when it remains unspoken, fear is so highly attached to it and actually when you put it out loud and be like, okay, maybe it's that, 'cause resistance often allows for something to persist in a way. So I love that. - I think you guys, Kate and Toby, I still have not watched any of the episodes where you guys break up and things. - Really? - Y'all were mine. Y'all, I mean, I know everybody, the R&B, but all. - Yeah, it's okay, go back there. - No, because it's just the way that they got together and I really did feel like of all the couples, they, to me, you guys were the soulmates of it all. Like, I don't, and maybe that wasn't the point of it, but for me, you guys were. And I'm always getting, 'cause I just loved you guys so much and everything you guys went through. And so for me, when you talk about what keeps you choosing and it's kind of both, because it's like, there's that scene where you say, I still love you and you've had to let her go, she's moved on. And I remember thinking, I don't ever wanna do that. I don't ever wanna stay in there and 20, 30 years from now and Sterling's married to Svetlana or whoever. - It's always Svetlana. - And it's all Svetlana, that's it. - I'm sorry. - You're not saying that, you're not saying that. - She's not a real person.
- That's embarrassing, but you know-- - Who, and those are the last days. - I take us out, but that, how is it? - But I never wanted that to be the case where I had to sit there and be like, I lost the love of my life. Because the way you did, your performance in that scene was so visceral to me that I was like, that's what I'm gonna have to choose this. Because I know that at the end of the day, there's not gonna be another choice, you know? - Yeah. - Yeah? - Yeah, there's some, there's, we had, again, this last couple's therapy session we had was really kind of groundbreaking, ironically, the international session that we had. In a lot of ways, that these, the marriages on this is us, you know, involved a lot of people turning towards each other, being honest. But it involved people create, instead of asking your partner to give you more of something, I should be creating an environment where they are able to do that. Does that make sense? Like if I'm not getting something for my partner, maybe it's not their fault. (laughing) Maybe it's because I have not created a scenario or a situation or a feeling where they feel comfortable behaving in that way. And one of the things, there's a question in couples therapy that has always kind of haunted me, which is what does your partner provide you, that you cannot pay someone to provide for you? And it's a really kind of existential question, right? Like even when it comes down to childcare or companionship or intimacy or whatever it is. And our last couple's therapy session was, I was having an existential crisis. I'm like, "What are we doing? What are we doing? Why are we married?" And I was a bit confronting, like I was like, "Tell me, do you have an answer to that question? I don't have an answer to that question." Like we were at a real low point. - Of course I do, so I'm prepared. - But you didn't have an answer to that question when we were in the session. - Okay, correct. - Because I was trying to, yeah. I was trying to drop in and be like, "No, let's not say a prepared answer, let's like." - Yeah. And it was ironic because our therapist said, gave me the answer that was like groundbreaking for me. Where she said, she said, "Oh, because you didn't know how to say to Rachel that she triggers all of your most foundational traumas while still being able to love you through them." - Mmm. (laughing) - Oh, never mind, I'm good. (laughing) - It's that, that one, that, that thing. - You guys, see next week, it's like, yeah, I didn't know how to say that. (laughing) - But I think that's only something that you discover. I think if you're in like a long-term relationship. - Sure. - And you're doing your work. - You're doing the work, yeah. 'Cause that's not something that I think maybe everyone experiences. - That's not entry-level stuff. - That's not entry-level stuff, yeah. Like that's, that's, that's, we've been in it for a long time. You guys, you're talking about your history. Like there's a lot, there's a lot of layers and a lot of comings and goings and, you know. - And there's all the cliche things about, you know, you marry your father or you marry your mother or you, you know, there's all of these like, edible things. And what it actually is for us that we've discovered is that we've, we saw each other out because there was something familiar in it. But we both activate in each other kind of the worst sides of ourselves. But then. - Can I call the best? Look, it's both. - I'm coming around to it. - I'm coming around, yeah. - Wait for it, wait for it. And that activation in a loving relationship provides us with the opportunity to heal those parts of ourselves. - Yes. - Yes. - And that's what I saw a lot of in the show. - Yeah. You know, is two people presenting something that is challenging for them and bouncing it off of their partner and being like, how can you help me through this? How can we help? - How can you help me help myself? - Yes. - Right, right, right, right, right. - Can I say something else about that, though, too? So about. - No, we're all out of time. Thank you. (laughing) - We're coming. - We're coming. - We're coming. (laughing) - Thank you. - We're going to fiddle that on that. But in terms of, you know, I think the other thing that gets, like, that we can get caught up and I only speak for us is getting attached to a certain version of our person and holding up a reflection of maybe a different person or a different version of that person in front of us and being like, but wait, that's who I thought you wait. What about it? But really, we're all evolving. We're all changing. So how can we love and appreciate the person we chose 16 years ago? While also leaving space for and being able to see the person in front of us who's changing before our eyes and leaves space for them to do that and not try to make them fit into something that makes us more comfortable. So that, I think, is like where we are in our evolution is like realizing that, I mean, with kids, you're going to change, like, holy cow. Talk about triggering, you know, childhood. - Traumaist. - Traumaist. It's, we're confronted with it every day and knowing that that's part of the work we're doing here is we're here to heal. We're here to heal through them. We can repair and ourselves through, you know, the experiences we provide our kids and give that back to ourselves and then how does that change us and how can we take that back to our relationship, our place of home that we want to continue to create together? - Yeah. - That's beautiful. - Wow. - That was just looking at something on IG and we're talking about three different phases of relationships between like the honeymoon and then this part that I think everybody's in and then what they call the twilight wants to, if you have kids, what have you in a traditional setting and the kids are gone and you're there. And the honeymoon is like you're saying three, six months or whatnot so you never really had even an opportunity to know like what things happen, like once that sort of infatuation phase wears out, right? And I think what you're saying Rage is like, oh man, how come this didn't last longer? How come like, shouldn't we still be in this or whatnot? And you know realistically that can't last forever but then there's a part of you that has to mourn what was and sort of be present to what is and love the person in front of you. And that's some people you give up. Brian and I have been in different places where we were like, should we give up? No, I'm gonna give up. And then like maybe we should give up and Brian's like, no, I'm not gonna give up but like it didn't happen at the same time. Hallelujah. To that extent because that, it is tough. It's like, you used to be like this and if you spend all this time talking about you should've, what a good way. Then you stop missing like what's, what do we do right? - Exactly. - Here. - Yeah, I don't know. - I also feel like love, the kind of love that we're talking about. It feels a lot like our relationship to like health or illness or something where when you're laid out you have that feeling of like, I'm never gonna take my healthy body for granted. - Yeah, right, right, right. - And then when it's back you're like, let's go get drunk and like not sleep and like fuck around. And you don't take care of yourself. I mean, you know, or whatever you're ever getting at it. And so sometimes it's so easy to be like, like you know, your question of like, what do they do for you that you couldn't pay someone to do? And it's wild that like the powers and the confidence and the sense of self that you have, just from being loved in a way that you're not acknowledging is such a profound part of who I imagine we all are. And it's like, and when it's at all in the periphery, it's so easy to lose sight of it. But the reality is like, oh, like I feel confident in a conversation because she loves me, even if she's not there. I feel proud of what I do in life because she loves me, even if she's not in the room. Like it all stems back from that. And it's like, unless like my shoulders are being shake and it's sometimes really hard to acknowledge. - Mmm, that's beautiful. - You guys wanna finish these sentences for me? - Okay. - The secret to a happy marriage is. - That is no secret. - It's like the noodle sauce and, you know, what is it, the panda? The panda, is a confidanda, yeah. - It's just like the noodle sauce. - It's just like, it's weird. - I'm waiting for it. - It's bigger. - It's bigger, it's bigger. - No, 'cause then he's like the secret is there is no secret. It's just, he shows up every day and he makes the noodles. And he puts love into the noodles and he puts whatever he puts in the noodles and everybody thinks they're so delicious and that there's a secret, but there really is no secret other than every day he makes the noodles. - I know we were gonna get kung fu panda. (laughing) - No, I love that. - I love that. - Yeah, I love that, I love that. - That's good, but that goes back to what you were saying about that phrase that we've all heard a lot of do the work. 'Cause whenever I hear that, I'm always like, wait, what's the work? I don't know the work is. Everyone says that and I don't know what it is. We're not doing it. (laughing) - There was homework. (laughing) And the reality is is because they're, like that, of course there's work, but what that is for each couple is its own thing. And like what works, that work is for you guys and for you guys and for us are not gonna line up. - I think a large part of what, as you're speaking that out loud, the first thing that I thought about in terms of work is the work of forgiveness. And I feel like no relationship, whether it is romantic or platonic, can exist without forgiveness. because everyone's in a while.
People are going to do things that trigger you that make you upset or frustrated or whatnot and like how quickly you can do it Really sort of like does speak to the health of the rate of relationship of whatever nature we're talking about because I can tell you There are times earlier in our relationship where a few days would go by now There were a few hours go by and so we've both sort of like all right. We don't have to hold on our egos are not so fragile or whatnot that we can like lay that down in front of you and be like listen I want to be on the other side of this thing. Yeah, so like I forgive you Yeah, I hope you forgive me like I apologize that like that sort of thing is I think really as I look forward to the Opportunities and I mean that in a holistic sense because I don't actually like the feeling of being angry or frustrated or being Angry her being angry or frustrated with me, but I do enjoy what repair feels like when it is successful Yes, you know, I'm saying like it's it is like oh, yeah, we made it. Thank you Secret to a happy marriage is I was not prepared for this question. I thought it was only she already said it all I was going to do the noodle I will say Radical honesty, you know, just kind of kind of like bravery. Yeah, like it takes for for me anyways. It takes a lot of like hoisting up the the young boy or young man who who has all of these doubts and fears and traumas and and to try to like stand in front of another person and and reveal them is scary for me and and I think In in our marriage. That's the secret for me in our marriage. I like that. I want it I want to add a copy because I don't disagree with that I but I and I also and it's not a but it's an end I Want radical honesty to always be in concert with kindness Does that make sense? Some people can interpret what you what you said. Oh, no, no, is it is it kind is it true? You said it's necessary. Yes, yes, and the words and the words have to cross those three bridges before they leave your For me, I mean I second third fourth everything that's been said so But I think mostly noodles I know yeah, I think for me like it's maintaining a healthy connection to source so that I can Expand my capacity to hold The good in the bat whatever is presented in front of me with grace so that I have the capacity for forgiveness when it presents itself So for me, I think that's the best thing I can do for my relationship with my husband and with my kids Whatever that means for anyone else, you know, just but the whatever that Tap into the source of love that helps you to be the best version of yourself Is what I would say and also a strong community If I can do too I think having couples you can look up to you want to emulate is so important just seeing our friend We have just such wonderful friends and just seeing them, you know For having a tough time like spending time with our girl like oh, yeah, that's what okay, we can okay Got to that point right what you said like having strong couples like Every you can talk to a single friend And then you'd be like, you know what I'm okay. Yeah Yeah, I gotta go. Yeah, I gotta go. It's okay. I never mind. I'll ask you about the football game Yeah, you know say like it's something else. Yeah, the couples Be have some skin in the game. All right last one after 30 years together. I hope my partner and I still Knockboots. Knockboots. Yeah. What's that? I knew it. You didn't. I mean, that is so I was like, why do you have to use such I mean do you realize that those these phrases are archaic like the phrases that We grew up with like no, I know but I have to play the song for you Come on come on y'all come on The terminology you don't sound like 30 years. I hope my wife and I still laugh as hard with and at each other as we do Yeah, we like the bird cracks me up like like nobody's business I like to think that every once in a while I hit her with the zinger too and we we have a good time Sometimes we're laughing at these kids because sometimes you got to laugh to keep from crying You know what I'm saying like I think like we've been very united in this mutual sort of like so how do we deal with this person? They're like going through a whole thing and so we feel very unified in that but even in the seriousness of it They're still a but ton of laugh. Yeah, it has to be. Yeah, right. I would absolutely agree with them We don't always agree but in this That's the season one of the podcast. I hope that Like I feel like when there is a situation You know that just presents itself whether it's Family or friends are just life for like community whatever where it there's a bit of like a flag going up I'm I can kind of be slow on the uptake of even clocking it and mandy's like this is weird. That's what's happening and I'll be like Oh whoa totally and like And I feel like our mind meld is Something I really cherish because it's like mandy has such a clear uh Just instinct or or or the way she sees things and makes sense of it in her head It's always like such a guiding light for me of like oh, yeah, she's she sees the room before anybody else definitely me And and and if I can add some perspective that in our in our dance in our way It's just something that I feel like is is So beautiful about our thing, and so it's like I hope that's still there the idea of imagining us like as old people being like What do you think of those people? I'm like enough kind of like getting to our You know getting to our shared space. Yeah, that's sweet I hope we're still a united front. I hope that we keep choosing each other We get that word choice just keeps floating around in this conversation I really feel like that is the key to a successful relationship Like you just have to wake up every day and say I am choosing to be with this person And I know that life is gonna throw crazy things our way So like to me that is success and that is something I look forward to and also like I hope we both Keep making each other proud like I'm really proud of you. I hope you're proud of me Not like with what we're doing with our lives necessarily although that is really cool But just like who we are as parents as people as friends as daughters as all of that Yeah, like I want I hope that we keep challenging each other to like and to be proud of one another with with who we are of what we Show our the world around us Fourteen years from now. What do you hope we're still doing? Um besides yeah, yeah Um, I think just that we find ways to surprise and delight each other Find new ways of doing this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hope we I hope we are still Choosing adventure choosing each other and choosing adventure That's right Yeah, that's from It's an adventure you'll you'd be fun for you guys We've just all got here and just just got a thing. Yeah August next dog down circuit avenue with all the With all of us You guys this is a great episode. This is a great episode. Thank you for joining us Thank you for being here If anybody wants to write in and talk to us You can do that at that was us
[email protected] or you can do that at the speakpipe.com slash that's right Don't forget to like smash that subscribe button And support it. Yeah, it's right down here Am I pointing it through here Support our sponsors because they help the the podcast Continue on. Yes Rachel, would you do us a favor? Would you look into your camera? Please and thank you Would you please let our audience know the name of the show? Yes, that was us Perfect That was us is filmed at rabbit-grin studios and produced by rabbit-grin productions music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith That was a hitgun podcast
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