Chaka Khan's "I'm Every Woman" with Danyel Smith

Hey, One Song Nation, this week we are revisiting another of our favorite episodes where we break down Chaka Khan's I'm Every Woman. And to help us break it down, we had our good friend, the journalist and podcaster Danielle Smith join the show. And, spoiler alert, the power of Chaka's isolated vocals brought a tear to the eyes of everyone in the room. That's right, we'll be back next week with a very unique episode. But until then, enjoy our One Song episode on I'm Every Woman. It's brought to you by PayPal. You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen, snacks, a stapler? The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pass keys, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See paypal.com slash protection terms. Low energy? Unfocused? Foggy? You might be dehydrated. Whether it's hot yoga, over 100 degree weather, or too much sun. GatorLite, with a specialized blend of five electrolytes, was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration. Shop now at retailers nationwide. GatorLite, hydrates faster than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist. Luxury. GatorLite.com/Sympathize. Miami, California girl. There you go. All right. Born and raised. in the great country of California and take some pride in it. Yeah. As a kid, I had a real fascination with songs that had any California reference. So, California Dreamin', Hotel California, I Left My Heart in San Francisco. Oh, great one. Do you know the way to San Jose? Dionne Warwick, Do You Know the Way to San Jose? And then we get to Chaka Khan, Hollywood. He's on his way, he's going to Hollywood, he's bussing into Hollywood. Showing the ways, moving to Hollywood, he's huffing into Hollywood. Oh, wow. Sort of a, not forgotten, but I think you have to live in a town that does like, you know, that Quiet Storm old school mix of music because that is not the current go-to for Rufus featuring Chaka Khan. Shout out to KACE, Southern California's finest. I had a real fascination with Chaka Khan's Hollywood as it related to what is my favorite song of all time, which is Gladys Knight. And the Pips, "Midnight Train to Georgia." Wow. Yeah. There's never any question it doesn't change, so it shall be forever because Hollywood seemed like he was going to Hollywood and then Gladys had the, "He's going back south." It was one dude, it was one story. No, but even right now in my mind, it's the same dude. Because the songs were being played around the same time. And I just had in my mind that Chaka was seeing him off and Gladys was seeing him home. Seeing him home. Yeah. Do you think that while he was here, he was listening to Hollywood Swingin'? Probably. I think that might be the middle piece. Nope. And let me tell you something. And why not? Shout out to Kool & the Gang. Absolutely. Shout out to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this year as a matter of fact. But yes, so that was me, Hollywood. And there was something about that song that was like, if you were an ambitious girl, which I've been since even having any consciousness of who I am and what I'm about, and you're sort of singing about ambition, but through the idea of this guy, when really I think it was her. It was her. Yeah. Hollywood representing ambition, like escape. Yes. Living your dreams. Yes. But it wasn't as comfortable for women and black women to sing about it like that. Just the same way with Midnight Train to Georgia, it wasn't, because I don't believe that Gladys got on the train with him. I think that Gladys saw him off. She never says in the record. That's true. Okay. I hadn't thought about that. I hadn't thought about that either. She never says it. I wanted to talk a little bit with you about, you talk about in your book, the history of pop music, this great quote, "Throughout the history of pop music, it is the rich, high, strong female voice, which is the prize." Yes. Love that line. It really spoke to me. It's about across gender. You mentioned from Frankie Valli and into the Bee Gees, even high voices, Michael Jackson, Michael Bolton, George Michael, these are potentially people capable of singing lower, but they choose to go high. It does pop off the radio, but the fact that it is a female register is so interesting. To connect that to Shaka, and then comes the question, sorry for the long buildup, I found this really interesting interview between Joni Mitchell, who we'll also be talking about, and Shaka in an interview last year. Joni says, "When I first heard Shaka, I thought it was Stevie Wonder." And Shaka goes, "Most people thought I was a man." I had never really thought about that. So there's potentially a bit of a gender reversal in Shaka. She's got this rich, strong, powerful voice. People talk about range, and the highest is always prized. Everyone wants the whistle register, oh my God, the whistle register. And it's like, "Yeah, but how long can you listen to the whistle?" Right. Minnie Riperton throws it once every album or two, or. Yes. You have to every once in a while. Yeah, dole it out. But Shaka's starting down here. It's like Gladys. We don't always have to be way up here. I'm sure when Shaka feels like reaching, she can get pretty, pretty high. She sure can. But when she's singing big, long, and loud, if this is high, high, and this is low, low, and she's singing right here, she's a monster. We're going to be listening to all of those voices, too, when we get to the stems, and we are so excited to dig into this song. We're going to hear the low lows, the whoa, whoa, whoa, right? She's doing that. And she's also belting. She's doing it all. We talk on the show about how different singers can have different strengths and qualities. And I was like, I love how wispy and gentle Minnie Riperton sounds. And I love how big and strong, and the term I always come back to is brassy. There's a certain note that Shaka hits on several of her songs. I noticed that there are a couple of my favorites, and it always strikes me as brassy. And then to find out that the two of them were playing a gig together in the early days, and that was one of the shows where she catches Ike Turner's attention, and he tries to fly her out to Los Angeles, and he says, "Hey, I want you to be one of the Ikeettes." It's just funny that Minnie Riperton is at that point in her career. I think the show is in Chicago, Minnie Riperton with one group, and it's Shaka with another group. Wow. But they're there at the very beginning, and I'm like, two different voices and styles couldn't exist, but black people are digesting both and enjoying both. Yes. Yes. But like Cyborg, so Ike was just out here collecting Ikeettes? Apparently, he was inviting people to become Ikeettes, and she said she turned him down. No. Yes. No. Yes. Why? Probably worked out quite well for her. According to our research, there was a talent agent. He booked Ask Rufus, which was the name of the group at the time, and they also booked Rotary Connection, which had Minnie Riperton. And so they're both sitting on this card, and there was a guy there named Bob Monaco. He has the booking company. He's like, "Ike, you gotta check her out." Ike flies her out to Englewood, ironically, at a place called Bollock Sound, and he offered her on the spot. He's like, "No, I don't want to be a Ike." And she declined. Apparently, she was happy just sticking with Rufus. So before we get into how I'm Every Woman was made, we still got to talk about Chaka Khan's origin story. She started singing as a child on the south side of Chicago, south side, and was influenced by Gladys Knight and Billie Holiday. She formed a girl group with her sister called The Crystallettes, and she joined the Black Panther Party as a teenager. This woman has lived many, many lives. All right, let's talk a little bit about Yvette Stevens, her birth name. She was actually named in a Yoruba ceremony. Her full name is Chaka Adune Adufe Yamoja Hodohare Karifa Khan, which is amazing and powerful. But anyway, her given name, Yvette, came after a Stan Getz song. Her dad loved saxophone music and loved Stan Getz, so her voice comes from horns. Alto saxes mainly is something I've heard her say in an interview. That almost makes sense. That almost makes sense with the way she sings. When she thinks about singing, she's thinking like a jazz saxophone player. And we're going to talk about jazz on this episode in a big way. But she worked with Miles Davis. They worked on the album Tutu, among other things, and she said that Miles paid her the highest compliment when he said she sounded like his horn, his muted horn, and she just took that to heart and is living with that satisfactorily for the rest of her day. Absolutely. Yeah, it's quite a compliment. So, by the way, she's got a sister. She's beautiful. She's Yvette. Her sister is Yvonne, who goes by Taka Boom. Just a little fun fact. She was briefly in a group called The Undisputed Truth, who have a really amazing song I got to play for you called You Plus Me Equals Love from 1976. And it must be said that her brother is also a musician and he co-wrote this song. The Bud by E.U. is a co-write with Mark Stevens and Marcus Miller. There are still parties you can play in my hometown where The Bud still goes off. Still goes off. Okay, first of all, there's a million of those parties. They'll never not be a party. There was a point where it was like prime time. You can slip it into the mix. Nowadays, it's like you kind of have to be a certain age. But like, you know, it's still good. At the right cookout, at the right picnic, it can still go on. Yeah. But like, you know, it still goes on. She's an instrument, is the thing. My favorite, that might be my favorite. That song won a Grammy. That was the best R&B vocal performance by a duo. Group or chorus, 1975. Should be noted, in case you didn't already know, that's a Stevie Wonder song. But in an interview I heard recently, Shaka says that she co-wrote the lyrics, but she was young and didn't understand publishing. So in her mind, she goes, I gave Stevie all the credit because I was so honored to work with him. Which is so sweet. Let's be sure to give Shaka Khan her credit as a songwriter. She's a co-writer of probably something good. She's writing songs, yes. She's not always writing songs, but. Shaka should get a portion of the IP for this song that has been made millions of dollars. She's in a club of so many women who were just honored to work with such and such. And their contributions should have been intellectual property, which would have been mail mocks money for life. For life. They're like, I don't know. I always think about in the old 45s where it had the songwriting credits in the parentheses underneath the song title. And it's like, as a kid, I was always like, well, why isn't that the same name as the person that's singing it, right? And so then you live and learn. And when I just think about, like, just off the top of my head, Dionne Warwick. I was thinking her exactly as you said that. And we're doing it for the same reason. Yeah, it's like, so Dionne never wrote. I just find that. He's not even all the time down as vocal arranger. Because the definition of writing is lyrics and melody, but it doesn't include the other choices that are made creatively. Phrasing, syncopation, all the subtle things that, you know, even 1% would be mail mocks money for life. Absolutely. We talked about this on the Doja Cat episode because when you hear Paint the Town Red and you hear Dionne Warwick's voice, you're hearing the sample throughout the song and it's a person who hasn't made a dime off of that. Off of that version of the song or the original. She wasn't paid anything because she wasn't considered a writer. And I think that's criminal. No, it's criminal. It makes me. Not cool, back. Right? It's that combination of, like, anger and heartbreak for me with this kind of thing. Because I know how hard those women worked in those studios. Shaka starts her solo career while she's still in Rufus. What motivated her to make her own music? We can kind of take a guess. I mean, like, we know that, like, at some point the label was like, it's not Ask Rufus, it's Rufus. Okay, it's not Rufus, it's. Rufus featuring Shaka Khan. And at one point the band starts to evolve. Rufus and Shaka Khan. Let's make sure to get Shaka in front when they take the pictures and everyone else is blurred out. It's this classic thing where it's intended to be a band. And Shaka talks all the time about how she loves bands and being part of a team. And she didn't want to be singled out. And it caused tension, as you can imagine. And many other things led to more tension over the years. She's making the cover of Jet, you know. Anybody who read Jet, you know, she's like Beauty of the Week every week. You know, like, it's like. Magnetic. She's taking the world. She's magnetic. Absolutely. And by the. Listen, we are going to give flowers to Bobby Watson and all the proud members of Rufus. Not all 20, though. We don't have time for all of them. But I sort of feel like, fellas, you know, this is the woman who is sort of setting the plate. You know. Yes. But we're going to get into all of it. But also, it was the era of the black band. Everybody from Lakeside to Earth, Wind & Fire, on and on and on and on. And, you know, the Commodores, everybody. And folks were realizing that people are sort of. Their charisma is causing them to be. Yes. chosen, sometimes by themselves. Remember it was. What was it? Theodore Pendergrass Jr. You guys talking about Teddy? Yeah, we're going to go. Harold Melvin in the Blue Notes. Yes. It's like people were emerging. That one concert, that one performance on Soul Train is very tense. Yes. That's what I'm saying. Like, Harold Melvin was like, what? I'm Harold Melvin. Exactly. So I just. I just feel like there was a moment where we were emerging, like when we were. It was a transition from the era of the black band, even the Texan Five. Yes. The era of the black band to the era of the black star, the solo pop star, the Supremes, even getting out of bands and just going into groups. Like, people were emerging. A lot of riches, like I'm paying 36 people back here. Right. Listen. And that did have. That did have something to do with it. Yeah, there's economic reasons for it. There's economic impact. Yeah, when you're splitting that money that many ways. So you have this person who originally joins the group as the singer who is now becoming absolutely a star into her own right. And now she's going solo. After the break, we'll dive into how I'm Every Woman Was Made and we'll be right back. with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade. Hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Hi there. Welcome back to one song. My man, Lectury. My man, Diablo. I'm Every Woman is on Shaka's first solo album named Shaka. She's still in Rufus when this album gets made. Tell us, how did I'm Every Woman, the song, get made? Let's talk about I'm Every Woman. So she's. She's working with Arif Martin who is a Turkish producer who worked at Atlantic Records for 30 years along with his homie, Amit Erdogan. That's how he got the job. But he did. Now this is. He's a classic producer, arranger in the old school tradition where he's not himself a songwriter or musician but he brings everyone together. He brings the best of the best and that means the best musicians, the best songs. So the rep. We were talking earlier about the jazz tradition. So every song in this record, they're all written by other people. So he's worked with Aretha, Donny Hathaway at this point, Bee Gees, Queen, and Average White Band who will come into play in this song, interestingly enough, in a few places. He referred to Shaka as his instrument. So in a way, he kind of thinks of her voice in the same way that he's thinking of the drummer's drums and the bass player's bass. He's thinking sonically, how does this all fit together? And he also brings in two of my favorite people, Nick Ashford and Valerie Simpson. Let's talk about. Let's talk about Ashford and Simpson. Ashford and Simpson. You know, I feel like this was everybody's favorite couple in music. You know what I mean? Even before I saw it as a rock, these were some people who produced one of my favorite garage classics. And we're going to talk a little bit about garage classics. A song called Bougie Bougie that was. I'm wearing my left eye. Yes, you're wearing your Larry LeVon. People watching on YouTube, you're getting a little bit extra because he's got Larry LeVon, the famous Paradise Garage DJ, on his shirt. Ashford and Simpson make great songs. Everybody wants to be. Just great. This is just. Bougie Bougie. Yeah, exactly. By the way, I like the instrumental, which I. But they made the music and the lyrics. They did. Absolutely. Also, I feel it's interesting that Ashford and Simpson were chosen for Shaka's debut because they were chosen for Diana Ross's debut with Reach Out and Touch Somebody's Hand. So I feel like that was a look. Yeah, that was a look. Is this a New York scene? I feel like this is very New York-y. It's New York-y. It's very New York-y. Yeah. And it's very. Ashford and Simpson still had the dust of Motown. Uh-huh. Okay, from all those early like Tammy Terrell, Mommy Gay songs. They did Ain't No Mountain High Enough, Ain't Nothin' But The Realty. They did the Ain't songs, the Motown Ain't songs. Just some light work. No big deal. Well, okay. So he's gathered these great people together. So this song is written by Valerie Simpson who's playing piano one day. And she's playing the piano part that you're about to hear isolated. Now, of course, it's not recorded by her, but picture her playing that piano line. And Nick hears it and starts singing along. He comes up with the I'm Every Woman line, which is really interesting because he is not a woman, interestingly. But when she heard him say it, they both realized something clicked. Like the sound, the lyric, everything about it was perfect the first instant it came into being. So he comes up with that first line that became the iconic title. And Valerie, in an interview, said, I immediately knew it was a great title. It was one of those things that just came together. But we were having trouble with the verse. So Valerie says, I told him to put his hand on his hip and dig into his feminine side. I love this. And it will be there. And that's where he came. And then it worked. Oh, it worked. So that's how the song came together. Valerie on piano and Nick on lyrics. And they wrote I'm Every Woman. Let's get to the synths. Where should we start? How about we start with the drums? Let's do it. All right. Well, on drums, we have Steve Ferroni from Average White Band. Just basic disco groove. 113 BPM. Nothing super fancy going on, but you don't need much. This is a background. No, don't overthink it. This is a groove. I'm dancing on the inside. No one's angry. Little ghost notes come in here. Right? Little little thingies in there. So he's doing that all through the beginning of the song. In the second verse, he throws in a little bit of a 16th note. You'll hear that. ♪ ♪ That right there. ♪ ♪ Gah! Kaboom! real subtle things on top of a strict four on the floor groove nothing too fancy but it's a but it's a little bit of a build it's a little bit of a tiny build and then we add the open hi-hat and then you will have heard all the things the drums do so let's listen to that in the second chorus classic disco by the way did you notice that he doesn't start the open hat right away no i think it's all part of the build and i think it's very intentional i feel like there's a song that builds yeah in very subtle ways over the course of from the beginning to the middle to the end oh absolutely it's got a huge build and just one thing i wanted to point out with that is that these are all session guys i'll name them as we go but what happens in these especially kind of classic 70s new york recording studio let's get a reef martin let's get the best and the brightest in and yes give them a chart and have them hear the song they may have only heard the song for the first time on a demo tape minutes before they got to their stations to play yes so what you hear as we listen along is a lot of like kind of finding ideas and like maybe abandoning them and trying something else you'll especially hear that on guitar but i heard it on drums a little bit i hear him going like oh how about a little bit of a ghost note okay i'll keep using that i think that's really interesting that's also of its era this is there's no looping we're not in the digital age where you take the one perfect four bar loop and then you just cut and paste it no no okay so this is excellent yeah this is amazing so yeah you just heard the drums and that's and really i could go home no because guess what yeah now we're gonna hear the bass no because is this the nerdiest music show or i mean we'd love to think that it is and if you say so it's it's giving it is it is very best way you have not even really seen us i haven't really right i haven't not yet i'm just at the beginning okay okay i'm ready i'm ready my man luxury what's going on with the bass stems the man on bass is will lee and you all know who he is not just from the hundreds of famous songs he's played on as a session player but he's also dave letterman's bass player in the world's most dangerous band and this is him playing with a really interesting effect on his bass which i think is the chorus effect or a digital delay mxr digital delay and here he is add some drums back right here it's just a stone groove it's just a stone groove so it's so it's like the best thing in the world in some ways it's almost it's almost an anonymous groove because it's amazing usually i can hear these parts these stems and be like oh that's amazing i can hear these parts these stems and be like oh that's amazing i can hear these parts these stems and be like oh that's amazing i can hear these parts these stems and be like oh that's just part of the song yeah yeah just part of the song yeah yeah just part of the song yeah yeah there that could be any number of songs there that could be any number of songs there that could be any number of songs it really could be yeah yeah it's it really could be yeah yeah it's it really could be yeah yeah it's because the there's actually only one because the there's actually only one because the there's actually only one section where there are chord changes section where there are chord changes section where there are chord changes like we're kind of just locked into the like we're kind of just locked into the like we're kind of just locked into the to the root note this whole time to the root note this whole time to the root note this whole time i also think that that piano and i also think that that piano and and eventually those strings, because I've got to talk about those strings. I am such a fan of the strings. We're going to get to them. Be patient. The piano and the strings are really just, they're working it for me. And I might ask you to do something in particular once we get to it. But you're nailing it, because the bass, the drums, and even the guitars are really just a rhythmic bed. And you could almost have any disco top line on top. But it's when that piano comes in that you'll start to hear the song. But first, there's some delicious, delicious moments. I was mentioning before that in the chorus, we've got the single. It's just one chord. So there's no harmonic variety. But we do have some fun moments in the transition from the verse to the chorus. And here that is on bass and drums. Just a little nice, melodic. I'm going to play you one other thing, by the way. We were talking about before how the process of making this is, again, they may have just heard the song, maybe for the first time ever that morning, given a chart, here's how the song is arranged. You play these parts. And then the assignment a little bit for Will Lee, for the drummer, for the bass player, for everyone, is to mess around with it. Take that as a starting point. And every now and then, there's moments that are imperfect. And we love that, because it just shows in this day and age where everything's pro-tooled, that for classic, iconic songs, there can be little clams, little imperfections. So here's where Will Lee drops a note by mistake. Come on, Will. I'll point it out. It's not there intentionally. I'll play it in the mix with the drums. It was just a moment, and they left it, because it was like, yeah, it's fine. And it never happens again. This is just my theory. When something like that happens, it's just a little clam, and you just leave it. Maybe James Brown finds you 50 bucks, but not in this case. We do a lot of conjecture on this show. Conjecture is fun. But our lawyers are at the ready. Storytelling. It's storytelling. Listen, that's the bass line. There's one last part I'll play, and then we'll get into the delicious piano. In the last minute and a half of a song, Shaka goes crazy. And we will be hearing all of her vocals in a moment. But the rest of the band is just kind of vamping. They're just going between these two chords. So to make it interesting, you kind of play around a bit. So this is Will Lee meandering. He didn't have to hit those notes, but he wanted to. He wrote about five new songs in that little meander. He didn't know where he was going either until he got there. But that's why you got the call in those days, right? Yes, that's why you got the call. That's why you got the call. Because people knew you. They could trust you to use your imagination to be confident about being creative. I love my time. I do. I love my era. I love the era of sampling. I love the era of looping. It's its own genius and creativity. It's its own genius. That's right. It's a different thing. But I also. So this is the music of my childhood. And it's like, when you hear it broken out the way you're breaking it out right now, like, honestly, it's emotional. Because you hear the work. Yeah. You really do hear the work. It's amazing. You hear lyricism and things other than the lyrics. Like, you know, you hear that little piece. And by the way, some of this goes back to the fact that, like, we don't really do bands in any genre of music now. Like, everybody's a solo artist. Oh, modern. Yeah. They said, like, there wasn't one band in the Billboard Top 100 recently. And when there's just one person essentially sitting at a laptop, you don't get those, like, little flourishes as much. You know, like, we're like, oh, I'm just the bass player? Okay, so I'm going to make this bass really stand out. Like, you don't get all of that. Let's get into that piano, because that piano is doing amazing, amazing work. And let's remember that the song begins life when Valerie Simpson was playing the piano. She's not on this track. It's Richard T. Shout out to Richard T. But shout out to Valerie Simpson. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Love that. And Richard T. added a little bit of sauce. So let's listen to him. Let's do that. That's all I need. Like, that could have been the song. I'd still be here. Woo! Sounds like a Masters at Work house remix or something. It's so house music. Listen to that. It's so house music. Listen to that. Before there was house. It sounds so happy. Well, but it's also garage. It just sounds like happiness. It does. It really does. It just sounds like. It sounds like gospel. It's gospel. I was just going to say. But it's got that beat. Yes. Give us some more. Give us some more. It really is the best. It is gospel. There is no doubt about it. It is gospel, right? Gospel into disco into house. That's the. To hear Larry LeVant tell it, garage was dance music with instruments. And then with house, they did it on electronics. That's what he would say. And to add another layer, because we talk about this on the show, the intertextuality of it all. And you're doing it at the garage, which is the church. The church of music. And he is the DJ, the preacher. It was literally a garage. Literally a garage. Right. So the combination of these things, there really is a religiosity to it. Like, it's ecstasy. Yes. Can we hear some more piano, please? The ecstatic piano coming up, my friend. So this is the same section I was playing for you before, where the bass gets a little crazy going into the chorus. That's like one of the most musically interesting moments, because the rest of it is vamping on the groove. Here's what the piano does in one of those moments. I just feel we should be dancing. I don't. You can't get up and dance. It sounds so good. I have a question. What does that sound. I think it's giving me Donald Byrd, Love Has Come Around. If anybody knows that song. Yeah. That's what I'm hearing in some of that piano build. What a great. I love that song. Late 70s. I did not even think that that was the title of that song. You don't remember that song? No, I remembered it when you started singing it, but I didn't remember it by the title. I'll play a section of it, because it's one of my favorite songs of all time. I love that song. You do hear it, though. By the way, it's not even saying that they sound alike. I'm saying they've got the same vibe. They've got that same good energy. Yes. No, you're absolutely right. And the sound of the piano chords, that rhythm, which we are all connecting kind of collectively, it's like, this is 1978. There is no house music yet. But there's about to be, and in the meantime, there's disco, and this is the lineage. And the piano is one of the things that ties it together. So, let's hear some more of that delicious piano. Let's hear some more delicious piano. Delicious piano. Oh, it's delicious. Another one of those connecting of the vamps sections, where we have a little bit of harmony happening. Harmonic interest. Here's the last one. Give me some drums with that. So I'll put some drums onto that. Here's that same part with drums, because there's a little tom buildup. And a fill in the bass. They're all messing around. So they're like three minutes into the song, and they're just like, woo, we get to have fun now. Oh, no, they're partying. They're partying. They're partying. I'm going to isolate that bass fill, because that's another hook. Oh, he kind of drops out there, too. That might have been a little clam. Well, Lee, I'm finding a couple of clams in here. That'll be 50 bucks a clam. It might have been intentional. If it happens more than once. I don't know. That's a different part. I don't think it's intentional. Well, I don't know why. He didn't break the song. Throwing salt on your name. He didn't break anything. And I'll throw the vocals in there so you know what part we're in. A little tease of the vocals to come. Let me tell you something. You remember? We're not going to talk about that vocal just yet. I will literally start crying on this podcast. I will do it. Let her cry. I will do it. I will do it. It's good for clicks. I will not feel shamed if I do it. I will not feel shamed, because it's too pretty. OK, so let's talk a little bit about guitar. We got two guitar players here. One is Hamish Stewart, another average white band performer. He's also on Pick Up the Pieces. And we also have Phil Upchurch on the second guitar, who also plays on Michael Jackson's Working Day and Night. Nice. But here's the first of the two guitar parts. And the other guitar is doing this. So they're kind of playing off each other. By the way, I like those guitars, because it sounds like Niall and Bernard from Chic. Yeah, we've definitely got a Niall-ish influence. One of them is a little bit more rhythmic, and the other one's just kind of finding. a note and staying a little longer. Here's another section. I'll play them one at a time, because it's fun to hear them separate. So rhythmic guy, I don't know which is which, Hamish or Phil, is doing this. Probably Hamish, right? Because he did the Pick Up the Pieces guitar. And while that's happening, the other guitar is doing this. And then I'll play them together. And you see. You know, they blend. That's both of them together, with some drums. And let's throw in some bass. And then get the piano. No. Sounds good. So that is the underlying rhythm section. Before we get to the strings and the vocals, which is where-- I mean, I was going to say where the magic happens. We already have magic happening in this instrumental track. Absolutely, so much magic happening. Let's listen to some strings. These are-- I don't have names for who the performers are, but arranged by Arif Mardin. And here is the intro. Woo! Right? Epic. I mean, you could call the song there. Like, what is going on? Cinematic. Cinematic. You feel something. It's too much. You get the-- you're going to cry. I'm going to. Stop. You guys. Wait. Wait. Play me some more strings. It's very you guys. Pump it up in here a little bit. Give us some more strings, bro. Here's another. This is happening in the first verse. This is what's happening under the vocal. I'll play the strings, and I'll gradually-- I already love it. no that is not that long like that on the record it is it is that's really happening that nice swoop with that long legato i did not i did not i did not hear that i did not hear it either until i was going through that's happening in the song all these beautiful moments it's like a cartwheel it's like what are we doing here it's like how do you not and people say why is music expensive why why you gotta pay for some bodies in that room you know like people are working yes like i am such a fan of reminding people that people are working even when people say oh you know what you guys um i wish that you guys could play the whole song yeah we do too but we would also like to see the musicians get paid yeah yeah i don't even know their names those string players i was gonna say that when you said that you don't even know their names i was like it doesn't it's disappointing but it also doesn't surprise me that nobody bothered to record like who's playing i hear a violin i hear a cello like i feel like there's more than one type of string they're in a document filed away somewhere but someone doesn't make it to the album still and if you know go to the comments and let us know because we'd love to know like we'd love to get these people they're they're they're due yes the power of choosing to name or not name means that these individuals may or may not get hired again yes they their payment is clearly tied to it we hope they're alive so we can give them like their props yeah but it didn't make it to the album credits because discogs if you ever look at that you can actually see the actual album artwork and you can see oh this is what was printed and yeah their names are not printed on it so yes it's unfortunate because it's a huge part of what makes the song emotional because look at danielle smith over there being very emotional man very emotional and i just want to say discogs is your friend yeah it is if you are a music fan immediately go to discogs and actually see the cd and the album covers one to catch a mood yeah okay to catch a whole mood um and to know just how deep it is to not only have all the musicians and the singers and everything together but also there's a photographer or a graphic artist or whatever who had a graphic designer who had to get into the mood and to like try to convey what this thing was going to be there's a version of the song that was only on the japanese press talk about it for any listeners who don't know discogs is a website it's a crowd-sourced website with pretty much every recording released of any music ever because it's crowd-sourced yes so you have these wonderfully amateur photographs that someone took of their album cover it's so great it's so great it's so charming it is but over time we kind of have the real the data that's deeper that doesn't make it to wikipedia yeah it doesn't i could live in these strings forever i really want to hear one more but i know that we have to get to the vocals so and that's going to be a whole other journey let's take that journey my friend let's go on that journey shall we listen to shaka khan yes start the song with the chorus and she is belting what looks like at least two takes i'm every woman it's all in me i'm every woman it's all in me by the way there's one more me in there it sounds like a double it's a she's doubling herself and she's such a good singer her doubles are perfect yeah you don't hear anything that is different between them but in that last note what's interesting is she has three different notes i'll play them separately then together here's me and then she went back and she did this that's the one you really hear and then she went lower and did one more lower harmony oh i can't stand it right right it's too much i i need to slow down it's too much it's too much here is that stack the three those three notes together and now you can hear it now famously shaka talks about how she was one of the first singers to do her own backing vocals and to actually sort of insist that she'd be the one to to do them normally you would have had other singers yep and she came in and she wasn't happy with she tells the story i don't know what song it was on but she wasn't happy with the vocalist they brought in so she said let me just do it and that's what they kept this episode is brought to you by paypal you know how a mom's bag has everything sunscreen snacks a stapler the new paypal app is like that but for your money shop pay manage your account and earn rewards all in one place and with purchase protection on eligible items biometric security and pass keys you're protected at every step download the new paypal app to get started see paypal.com protection terms low energy unfocused foggy you might be dehydrated gatorade zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors great tasting hydration no matter where you're going shop now online or at retailers nationwide gatorade hydrates better than water is it in you? symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration consult a health care professional if symptoms persist but now let's hear part b of the chorus the answer section which sounds like this anything you've all done baby i'll do it naturally yeah and then she does another chorus another harmony and then we get some woes shall we hear some woes woes is that just her it sounds like there's a man So the backing vocals are Shaka with Will Lee, the bass player, and Hamish Stewart, the guitar player. So I think you're right. I think we're hearing all of them in those low vocals. Yeah, in the woes. There's a lot of woes in this song. I'm pro-woes. I'm pro-woes. All right, well, let's listen to some more Shaka. I got to hear some verse, because to me, that verse, it's so clean. It's such a clean. So she goes from those big stacks and backing vocalists to just one single, undoubled, perverse one. Let's hear that. I can cast a spell of secrets you can't tell. Mix a special brew, put fire inside of you. And any time you feel danger or fear, instantly I will appear. Call. I can't do it. You're not going to make it to the end of the episode. We have some episodes where it's so hard. I literally. And asking producers for Kleenex at this point. I'll tell you what I hear. I hear influence. And the reason that it makes me emotional, honestly, is because Shaka does not get the credit that she is due. I got to hear the verse two. I can sense your needs like rain on the seeds. I just want to hear that isolated, because ever since we chose this song, and you chose this song, I wanted to hear that isolated. Can we hear that verse? Thank you. Thank you. I can sense your needs like rain onto the seas. Here comes the harmony. I can make a rhyme of confusion in your mind. And when it comes down to some good old-fashioned love, that's what I've got. Let me all go on. Oh, my gosh. I can't do it with you guys. Cut these mics off. Cut the cameras off. We're a puddle. We're all devastated. We're living in a puddle. We're a puddle. She said, I can make a rhyme. Of confusion in your mind. Never understood that line. I spent my whole childhood. I didn't know what they said. But you get it now. Lock a vision in your mind. I thought maybe lock a vision in your mind. I didn't, you know. I thought she said, I can bring you to your knees like praying onto the seas. Listen, we didn't have the internet back then. If you got that lyric wrong, you didn't know what it said. I will clear it all up for you, sir. That's what she's saying. I will make a poem of your chaos. And she's not even saying it to Sirk. Because again, now I hear these lyrics. I'm like, she could be helping her daughter. She could be helping her partner. All right. Well, we have to hear the peak build right before that ending chorus that just goes on and on and on. So let's hear her build to it. This is the bridge into the last chorus. We're not done building. I am every woman. Tell them all about it. I am every woman. And then we do this modulation. Tell them all. I am every woman. Wanted to know, wanted to know. Here it comes. Here it comes. I am every woman. That's the best part. That's the best part right there. Yeah, now everybody knows that. Did she know she was going to do that before she did it? Let's just hear it by itself. That's a long note. She goes low with it. It's like a waterfall. That is insane. And I feel like that is the one part where Whitney was like, I ain't touching that part. I'm doing that exactly like her. What else are you going to do? Descend chromatically into that final minute. Can I just say, this is the greatest outro. Because people forget, this is not technically the chorus anymore. We're into the outro of the song. But she's just hitting it. Every single bar. Just every single bar. Just pure, clean notes from the queen herself. It's a modulation fake out, remember? Yes, it really does. Right? Because it goes up, but then it goes down. It goes up, but then it comes back down. You think it's going to go up. Here, I'll play the piano part and the vocals together. It fakes you out all the way to the end. It's two minutes straight of this part. Literally two minutes straight of just this. I'm every woman. Okay, we're here. I'm every woman. But then we're going to go up three half steps. Boom. I'm every woman. Oh, we're here now. I guess we modulated. I guess we're in a new key. I'm every woman. Nope, we're going to go right back down again. I'm every woman. It's two minutes of that. The last two minutes are just that, all the way through the fade. The best two minutes. By the way, I say two minutes. That's because we can't play it because we don't have time. But there is more after the fade. I'm sure there's more vocals. There's more strings. There's more vocals. There's more piano. There's so much good stuff. We got to move on, unfortunately. There's never enough shaka. Let's just call it what it is. My whole time growing up, I always thought of it as her singing it to a dude saying, like, I'm going to be that supportive woman. But really, you know, coming to it now after, you know, decades of being alive, I'm like, no, she's kind of saying that I'm there to support you no matter who you are. Yes, absolutely. I get that energy. I mean, I love the song so much. It was the original title of My Shine Bright. Really? Wow, that makes so much sense. It was originally going to be titled She's Every Woman. A very personal history of black women in pop. For a number of reasons, it didn't go that way. And I love that it's called Shine Bright. Yes. But that's the energy. And plus, the combination of Shaka Khan doing it and then Whitney covering it. Followed up. It's just such a classic black girl anthem. I love Whitney Houston. Whitney Houston is a queen among singers. There is none higher. But Whitney Houston listened to this 40,000 million, 865 trillion times. You can hear it. When you really listen to Whitney's cover, she didn't change the arrangement that much. It's faithful. Shaka gets a credit, actually, in Whitney's cover that says arrangement by Shaka Khan. Oh, and she should. Whitney probably knew she had to because, you know, she's a woman. No, she didn't want to. I thought that Sissy actually sang a little bit uncredited on the original I'm Every Woman. Is that true? So there is a lot of back and forth on the Internet. And one of the back and forths includes Shaka herself in an interview saying that both Sissy and Whitney, a young 14-year-old Whitney, are on the song. But then minutes later on a Facebook post, it's like a Guardian interview. What happened? And then a Facebook post later that same day, she goes on to say, oh, I misspoke. I think it was only Sissy. Yeah. She said that Whitney was not on it. It was Sissy. That's right. That's right. Once Whitney decides she's going to sing a Shaka song, which, you know, like, I dare anybody to go up at karaoke and sing a Michael Jackson song, sing a Stevie Wonder song. At the point you decide you're going to sing a Shaka Khan song, you got to be Whitney levels of good. And I agree with you. I think she listened to it however many times that she said. Yes. And dialed it absolutely in. Yes. And I also think just knowing sort of the. The energy of the women of that era. It was a super competitive scene. Yeah. Okay. So people who were really good, let's just say Aretha Franklin. Let's just say Whitney Houston. When there were songs that were really like that person's song, whether it was Respect from Otis Redding or whether it was I'm Every Woman from Shaka Khan. There was almost a competitive thing like, oh, she think that her song? Yeah. No, no, no. You're on to something with this. You think that's her song? Is that what you think? Because I'll sing it. And we're going to see whose song it is. And that was always the energy that I got from Whitney Houston's version of I'm Every Woman. Like, that song is too good. That song is too associated with Shaka Khan. And I say this with so much love and respect for Whitney Houston and Shaka Khan. Both versions. Both versions are Hall of Fame versions. But I'm telling you, I hear Whitney trying to go note for note. And that is something that Whitney Houston does not do. Part of what you're saying that's really resonating for me is because we're obviously, we're talking about two interpreters. Both Whitney Houston and Shaka Khan are performers and singers, but not necessarily songwriters. And what they own is the performance and what they own is the song. And this takes us back to the legacy. Of where cover versions come from. Because we can't forget that Little Richard and Elvis Presley, Big Mama Thornton. The legacy of cover versions is white performers that take a song that was originally for a black artist and becoming the one that is known for that song. Yes. And the song itself is what performers, in the old days especially, that's all they had. Yes. Before the Beatles start writing, you know, Dylan. In the 60s, you start writing your own songs. That becomes a choice. But for the pure performers, the ownership of the cover comes from whose song. Doesn't. This is better. Yes. Because to a lot of people, Whitney, this is Whitney's song. It is. And it's, it's, it's, even when I see, I was watching the video for Whitney Houston's version on the way here. And it's such a great video. Great video. Whitney's at the top of her game. She's in the bodyguard era. She's pregnant in the video. She looks, she's, she's, she's literally, she already usually glows, but she was glowing. And because she was, sometimes she was too thin, you know. But in this, she just looks fleshy. and beautiful and amazing. and I see Chaka coming in in moments, in beats. Because she's in the video, too, you mean? Yeah, she is. She's in there. It's a great video. T-Boz, all of. Yeah, TLC's in there. TLC's in there. A lot of fun cameos. Yes, it's so great. And Chaka's reduced to a cameo, though. But she does have. She gets the shout-out at the end. We're going to talk about it. And by the way, I thought that was actually just a lyric in the song growing up. I thought. I thought what was? I thought, Chaka Khan. Chaka Khan! Like, I thought that was, like, a lyric from the song. In fact, the first time I ever heard the Chaka Khan version, I expected her to sing her own name at the end of the song. Like, this is, like, me, like, in my 20s or whatever. But, like, yeah, no, seriously. I love Whitney. I thought that that. I love Whitney. That respect was there. You're saying they're. I'm not. Oh, no, the respect for Whitney Houston, I think, is probably. She probably had as much respect for Chaka Khan as she had for any singer that she ever had. I mean, just, again, this is what I'm saying. I hear influence. When I hear those isolated vocals, okay, when you hear Chaka singing, you can hear some of that, not just in Whitney Houston's cover of I'm Every Woman, but in Whitney Houston singing, period. Chaka said when she heard the Whitney version, she said, are you using my vocals? Whoop, whoop! She said she thought maybe. Maybe her backgrounds were still in the mix. And even if she didn't think it. So you're nailing it. She was going to say it. Yeah, whether or not it was. It was replicated if it wasn't the original. Yes, yes, this is what I'm saying. No, and I think. I remember when the video came out, I hadn't really listened to it that much just on the album. But when the video came out, we were all listening to it. And I immediately thought to myself, even way back then, this sounds just like Chaka's version. Yeah. We brought it up to speed. We brought it up to where it was supposed to be in the era, but it's. It's. It's. It's giving pound for pound very similar, if not almost exactly the same. An example that I have is. Okay, so Stephanie Mills sings Home from The Wiz. Yeah. And everybody tries to cover Home. It's every black girl in every talent show sings Home. You see Beyonce singing it in a talent show way back then when she was a kid. Barbra Streisand sings Stephanie Mills' Home. And that's why we have to call it Stephanie Mills' Home because no one strays from the vocal arrangement of Stephanie Mills. They do not. And Whitney did not stray. And I just want to say for Whitney to not stray from someone else's vocal arrangement is saying something. That's the ultimate compliment. Yes. Yes. But the irony of it is that in a way it's also a form of erasure. It is, though. Over Chaka's version. It is. There's. Right. It's just the idea that black people or black women or. or music itself isn't like ruthlessly competitive. That there isn't like a lot of ego involved in the creation of music. Yes. Ambition and driver definitely in the mix. And you can hear it. Yeah. And you can hear it. And I think you can hear it better in black music than in anything. Just a couple of things before we move on from the song I wanted to point out is we have a music video for Whitney Houston that we've all seen. It should be pointed out the original music video for this. Oh, it's so great. It's so cool and lo-fi in a fun way. It reminds me of the infamous Star Wars Christmas special in that like you get the sense they were like, oh, this is the future of special effects. But it's really just her superimposed five chakas representing every woman. Yes. And it may not seem like much now but you gotta realize it's pre-MTV and the fact that this could be shown in clubs. Chaka's video was so great. She has on the best outfits. So many good outfits. Right. At least five. At least five or six outfits. Each one she's doing like an awkward dance like what am I what am I supposed to be doing? What? Okay, this is a what? This is a video? What is this? She looks flawlessly beautiful and amazing and just ugh so luscious right in every version of herself and she really is being like every woman every woman she's being every woman yeah I'm Every Woman was just the beginning of Chaka's superstar career she kept making music with Rufus until they broke up in 1983 at the same time she was on the grind releasing even more solo albums we gotta take a moment to give some love to Clouds one of my favorite songs from her second album which was called Naughty it was an extremely important song in the development of dance music particularly the genre known as Garage as we've been talking about Clouds Clouds different shapes and sizes are hiding the horizon love Clouds it's got a distinctive sound yep the 80s are a great time for Chaka you know she's making waves on the R&B charts she's got songs like What You Gonna Do For Me Ain't Nobody which deserves its own episode of one song I think and another one of my absolute favorites I Know You I Live You which do you know that do you remember that one not really I'll play it for you here I know you I know you I know you a song in the morning throughout her career Chaka's covered quite a few songs from her contemporaries including Marvin Gaye's What's Going On which she recorded in 2002 and won a Grammy for and of course of course there's Chaka's cover of Prince's song I Feel For You from 1984 I feel for you I think I love you get this it was the first R&B song to feature a rap song in a rap segment that's crazy Melly Mel unbelievable yeah it was Melly Mel Chaka Khan Chaka Khan exactly and by the way there would be no me and Mariah go back like babies with fast fires without I Feel For You yes that rap was by Melly Mel and the famous harmonica solo by Stevie Wonder that's right yes yes yes again I speak to Chaka Khan's influence yeah on everything that has come after her oh Prince was obsessed with Chaka Khan Prince that's amazing goes on to like obviously Worship Her she didn't actually write Feel For You about for Chaka though she wrote it for Patrice Russian who turned it down Patrice who turned it down money on the table Patrice money on the table you forget me not right one of my favorite songs number one is my favorite Patrice Russian number one such a great song love that song there's some heartbreaking stories of what could have or should have been one of them probably the most heartbreaking one is that did you know I just learned this in researching this episode Robert Palmer's Addicted to Love started life as a duet with Chaka Khan there exists somewhere in the world of Robert Palmer and Chaka Khan recording of Addicted to Love and they wiped her from the backing track they wiped her from the tape that makes a lot of sense that makes a cause you know what my other favorite Robert Palmer song is I Didn't Mean to Turn You On which is an amazing Shirelle song I love the Shirelle song version yeah Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis so Robert Palmer was really just Robert Palmer wanted to do the song with her he brought her in they recorded it and some garbage happened at the record level the record company executive MTV something bad took place music industry dirtiness and she's to this day you can tell it's like a heartbreaking thing that she wasn't on the song especially because it's a big record it was done dirty it was a big record and she was done dirty less drawn dirty but interestingly interesting to think about an alternative universe where Dennis Edwards is 1984 smash Don't Look Any Further might have had Chaka on it had she not had a scheduling conflict I could totally see that because there is a female vocal on Don't Look Any Further oh my god that's my song too it's now a Sita Garrett song and you know it's got that female part on it yes it does yeah that would have been Chaka it would have been Chaka on that song daylight I'll still be looking in your heavenly eyes and we'll go on daylight daylight she had a conflict she couldn't make it oh man whatever that means and last but not least and this is another one that's less dirty so it's a happy ending for her friend but snaps 1989 smash I got the power that song was originally they asked Chaka to do it it sounds like and she couldn't do it so she gave it to her friend Penny Ford and if you notice they actually end up interpolating another Chaka Khan song which is Some Love from 1978 some love so yeah there is the don't break my heart part of I got the power that's a Chaka interpolation so some interesting Chaka what could have been we've talked about covers and we've talked about songs she's covered and songs of hers that have been covered let's talk a little bit about samples there's Through the Fire from 1985 which was an Atlanta radio staple for most of my childhood and that must have been the case in Chicago because Kanye famously sampled it for Through the Wire a song that he recorded about you know his accident and the fact that he was having to rap Through the Wire he sounds very different he literally does in that song he's incredible I'm Kanye on that song yeah you know what I'm saying when the doctor told me I had a arm I was gonna have to have a plate in my chair I said dog did you realize I'll never make you feel like you do And in the music video, Kanye features the artwork of Sean Shaka's album, Epiphany, the best of Shaka Khan, volume one, where you can find Through the Fire. Now, here's what's interesting. Shaka's son convinced her to clear the sample for Kanye. Yeah, yeah. And then she hears it, and she's very upset, because she thinks she sounds like a shit mother. She had no idea it was going to be Kanye-fied. Exactly. It turns out, in later interviews, she understands that speeding up the sample, slowing it down, that's just part of hip-hop culture. I mean, in my opinion, when I hear her say that, I feel like she's begrudgingly saying, yeah, I understand. I think she's still a little annoyed. They took her instrument, and they turned it off. If you sound as good as she sounds, you may not want to hear that version. But I will say that that was a huge hit for Kanye back in the days. It was, yeah. Because it touched the nostalgia strings of the generation previous to hip-hop. It really just. Man, that song is so. It's old school, but it was even old school when it came out. Yeah, you're right. It really was one of. It was like a 70s throwback. It was a throwback ballad. Like, it just. A quiet storm. It really was. WKRP era. Yes. And I did allude earlier to jazz being an important part of understanding this woman. Yes. This wonderful quote that I found from her, she goes, I'm only kissing the hem of the dress of the lady called jazz. Now, when I heard that, I was like, man, this really explains where she is coming from in so many ways. Her delivery, her choice of repertoire, the fact that she's done a lot of jazz. She has an entire jazz record. Yes, she does. Do you have that? That one echoes of an era. Yeah, listen. Listen. Yeah. I just remember. I think she toured around that album, too. I know she toured around that album. And I remember she made very clear in the walk-up to the tour, I'm not singing any of my Rufus hits. I'm not singing any of my Chaka Khan songs. I'm singing only jazz. And I wasn't at the show, but I remember them talking about it on the radio the next day or something. And this was an opening. This was in Brooklyn or in the Bay Area, I should say. And people started booing. Yeah. And they started saying out, I'm every woman. Yeah, they wanted the hits. You know, Hollywood. Like, sing what I paid for, basically, was the energy. What year was this? Roughly? What is this, 80s? Yeah, Echoes of an Era was 82. That's with Chick Corea and Stanley Clark. Yeah. It's all jazz original standards. It does. It does. And she stood. She stood right there and said, we made it very clear. I'm not doing that. Would you go to Andre 3000's flute show and start booing and be like? I mean, I would, but that's the energy. Mrs. Jackson! No, but that's the energy. And so they said that she went right into My Funny Valentine. Her version of that is. I mean, the song. The song by itself is, the lyrics are insane and always will be. They're, it's a classic. It's a part of the Great American Songbook for a reason, but Shaka's singing it. Yeah. She's an interpreter. Yeah, she is. She absolutely is. When I was kind of doing my homework on this, that was sort of a key that helped unlock a lot of her entire career because she's not really a songwriter and that's not, you know, to say anything negative. It's just like her chosen methodology. Her chosen methodology for musicianship is to select repertoire. Yes. Find songs that she connects with and then she inhabits them and she transforms them and she performs them. That is her artistic route. I think that interpreters get a bad rap. And then on the flip side of that, it's so hard for music critics or social media superstars to rightly call women. And black women. Black women songwriters when they are songwriters, it took so long for Mariah Carey to be identified in every article as a singer-songwriter. You're absolutely right. That's a great connection. Yes. Because that's the legacy. Sarah Vaughn, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday are mostly not writing original material. No, they're not. And it's high art though, when you can take the words that somebody else wrote. Yeah. Look at that. Look at the music. Look at the arrangement. Imagine another arrangement. Maybe. And then say, I feel strong enough about myself that I know that Ella Fitzgerald sang this song. I know Ella sang it and everybody knows Ella Fitzgerald's version. But you know what? Let's record that. Gladys Knight has a jazz album. I love it when people say, I'm going to take, I'm just going to take it on. And I think the Ella connection is a real one too. There's one song just to illustrate the jazz connection that I have to play for you. This song won a Grammy. This song is called Bebop Medley. It's from 1982 and it's insane. Basically it won best arrangement for voices because it's bebop. It's hard. She's harmonizing with herself and these crazy scat moments. She took that background and training and talent and put it into pop music and put it into funk and put it into on the radio. She did. Well, at this point, I think it's safe to say that there's no denying the greatness of Chaka Khan between her solo career and as the lead singer of Roofing. She's won 10 Grammys, sold 70 million records, and several of her singles and albums have gone gold and platinum. She was also inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2023. So, Danielle, as we wrap up this episode, what do you believe is the legacy of Chaka Khan and I'm Every Woman? I think that I have been saying it throughout this whole amazing show. I think that you guys have been saying it throughout this whole amazing show. But the legacy is that. I think that everybody wants to sound like Chaka Khan. I can't imagine a vocalist of any stripe, right, who wouldn't listen to Chaka Khan and say, damn. I want to sound like that. I want that kind of attention to detail. I want that type of excellence. I want that kind of reaching for the stars with every bar. With every note. It's like Chaka leaves no note untouched. Nothing is just, like, taken for granted. Yeah, like, oh, yeah. Nothing is that. Every note, you feel her touching and making special. Yeah. And whenever you hear almost anyone that has recorded music, either during or after Chaka Khan's heyday, is in one way or another trying to be Chaka Khan. I'm hearing all that, too, through your ears and sort of being in your book, like, I'm reading it now. So I'm, like, thinking about all these women. And I'm hearing the Whitney just the way you did. In the way you did in that moment that you did. And then that sort of flows us into Mariah and into Beyonce. All of these women that are in this, whatever you call the word cloud of pop into R&B with gospel influence and funk and all that. Yes. They're all coming from a Chaka legacy. Or they're all certainly. They're all certainly connected in some ways to Chaka's legacy. Even if it is in vocalists and they don't acknowledge it or even know it, even if it's just in their dreams, they listen to it in their sleep, while they were in the backseat, while their mom and dad were playing it on the car radio. Like, it's in people. Yeah, man. It's a Chaka's legacy. It's, I mean, it clearly is a Hall of Fame legacy. And this is coming from somebody who's on the committee. The year that it's coming up is the first year that I've been on the committee. What an honor. How great. It's. Is it fun? It feels fun. Oh, it's work. It's a huge. What an honor. It's a huge honor, honestly. So when I say that her legacy is a Hall of Fame legacy, I mean it literally. And I mean it also, but metaphorically. Like, what Halls of Fame just mean in general. Like, you are the best of the absolute best. And that's where Chaka is. Is she on your Mount Rushmore along with. I heard you say Beyonce was up there in another interview. Yes, Beyonce is definitely up there. I mean, I tend. But my big three is definitely going to be Janet Mariah. I love that. And Whitney Houston. Okay. Absolutely. But Chaka's right there. Well, okay. So since we're talking Rushmores, I have a controversial put you on the spot question. Oh, let's go. Chaka or Patty? Chaka. Chaka. You heard it here first. That wasn't that hard. That was a quick answer. And I love her. I like a quick answer. No, I do. I have so much love and respect for Patty LaBelle. I do. And I love the Bluebells. We can take it all the way back to the girl group. But I'm going to have to go on ahead and choose Chaka Khan. Listen, we only do these things, people, because they're fun to do. I grew up. I'm one of six. I have four sisters. The black women in my family, they were always having this debate. And I just wanted to see where you fell along those lines. I mean, I will see. I'm waiting, if only you knew, right now. I said the spring is Patty for life. I think she's Patty till. I'm waiting. We are not putting people together. We're just getting it. You don't want it. You want it on flute. I do want to ask real quick, because Chaka did, of course, do that interview, where I think it was about the time that her relationship with Mary J. is quite complicated. You know, Mary J. famously covered Sweet Thing. And she felt like Mary sounded flat. ♪ Don't you know you're my everything ♪ And I feel like the young internet came for Shaka, which is insane to me. They're like, she ain't flat. You just mad her version of Sweet Thing did more. I'm like, not part of that camp. But she did also do that interview where she talked about the Rolling Stone top, I think it was. Are you going to say the quote that I think you're going to say? Or the same quote about Mary? Well, maybe. They'd ranked, I think, Mariah Carey number five. They'd put a couple of singers above her, including Mary. And she was just like, oh, this is crazy. This is insane. Did you happen across that interview? Did you ever hear it? I heard about it. I can tell you exactly what she said. She goes, she's referring to the voters. They are blind as a motherfucking bat. They need hearing aids, Khan exclaimed, referring to the Rolling Stone critics. They must be the children of Helen Keller. That's rude. That's a little rude. That's rude. I think she eventually walked it back a little bit. She apologized because she said, I'm friends with all these people, including. We married. So I always found that relationship to be really. No, I didn't find it rude what she said about anybody except for Helen Keller. That's a little bit much. You're worried about the Helen Keller thing. I am worried. Yes, I'm worried. Cushing it a little bit. That's, yeah. No, I just feel like comparing between eras is. It's tough. It's tough. Like I said, ego's involved. This is a lot of work and creativity and thought and imagination and all that kind of stuff. So if someone remakes your song, yeah, you're going to be listening to that. It's hard. You're going to be listening for anything that sounds remotely off or even just different. And also, let's just be honest. Getting older is not for the weak. Okay. So as we get older, even sometimes your influence is hard to witness because it says to you, my heyday is not here. My time's in the rear view mirror. Yes. And so my thought is. Shaka can say what she wants to say. Yeah. And Mary J. Blige is going to be absolutely fine. Her version is stellar. But Shaka's is. I like your version of the sweet thing. I actually thought it brought a level of gravitas, is that the word? But that was on What's the 411, which was the first album that I ever slow danced in and was able to get a kiss from. Ooh. I have a special place in my heart for that. Ooh, more, more, more. Hey, no, this is. It's not like there are microphones around here. Okay, Danielle. Before we let you go. Okay. Um, we want to play a game with you. It's called What's One Song? And here are the rules. Okay. We'll give you a scenario and you give us one song that the scenario would apply to. And we'll want you to come up with that answer as quick as possible. I don't think that'll be a problem because you seem to answer questions pretty quickly. Oh, man. I feel like I'm getting an A plus right now. No, you're. You're nailing it. All right. So, what's one song you can't get out of your head right now? Honestly, Lionel Richie, Jesus is Love. What's one song that you could listen to every day for the rest of your life? That song would be 1973's number one pop hit, Midnight Train to Georgia. Yeah. All right. You're consistent. I'm never going to stray. It is a perfect record. I don't say that about that many records. Wow. There's not one weak element on that record. Oh, now I want to ask you. Okay. But you have to lose one song off the album. What song is it? Off what album? Off that album. I don't even listen to that album. All I listen to is Midnight Train to Georgia. He just flipped the 45. What's your favorite one? Me? Off that album. I'll ask the questions, man. All right. I know that I'm. Let me. Look. Real quick. This has been a trailblazing episode. So many things have happened this episode. Right here. It's never happened before. Right here. You can come back anytime. Right here. What's one song you listened to a ton when you wrote. Oh, Shine Bright. And you know what's wild is that I don't even write about her that much in Shine Bright. I have written about her at length other places. But it's Sade and it's When Am I Gonna Make a Living. When am I gonna make a living? It's gonna take a while before I give in. Ooh. Nice. I love Sade so much. I'm a big fan of that answer. That's great. Sade, listen. We have a couple of White Whale episodes of like. Mm-hmm. Never do that. And Sade is absolutely 100% one of them. Number one on my list. Absolutely. Yeah, she's a. She's the queen. She got me through too many things over the decades. War of the Hearts is heartbreaking. It's too much. Too much. Even Soldier of Love, man. You're talking about. Soldier of Love. I was late to that one. If you do stems for Soldier of Love. We'll bring you back for that one. Oh, man. We will bring you back. In any case, yeah, definitely. But When Am I Gonna Make a Living is just. Yeah. It's about just that. It's about ambition, which I love to hear in music. I love to hear in music from women. I love to hear in music from Black women. And Sade was so young when she co-wrote and recorded that. And it has everything in it that if you hear that song at 19, 20, 21 years old, it will get you through your life. It will get you through your life. Mm-hmm. Can I give you two more? Yes, please. This is a fun game. I think Maureen is underrated. Yes, Maureen is good. And I love. And I'm gonna miss you, girl. I mean, like, come on. Listen, any song with a girl's name as the title wins. Yes. I totally. I said that on a previous episode. Yeah, just name the song Brooke. You know, like, you're halfway home. That's what I'm saying, Peggy Sue. Let's go. All right, all right. Oh, my God. We gotta do that shot again. Okay, what's one song that you love to sing at karaoke? I've never done a different song. Only Midnight Change of Georgia? Let me. I'm not even gonna mess with Gladys like that. No, it's I Will Survive, Gloria Gaynor. Oh, there you go. It never changes. It never changes. Good choice. First I was afraid. I was petrified. Kept thinking I could never live without you by my side. But then I spent. Come on. And by the way, everybody in karaoke is, like, jamming along with you. Yes. That's mine. But you weren't gonna ask me the one that makes me cry? No, no, no. That's coming. That's obviously coming. I've been waiting on that one. That one's coming last. Because I have my Kleenex. Well, let's ask him now. What is one song that makes you cry? Every single time. Carole King, Way Over Yonder. I will cry thinking about it. Way over yonder We did not know that song coming in, so. Thank you for turning it on. Thank you for playing. Thank you for making us cry in the future. Thanks to this new song and my repertoire of crying songs. I'm gonna get in my car and just blast it. You're talking about Way Over Yonder? Yeah. Oh, yeah, you have to. You'll be sad, though. You'll be happy sad, though. You'll be happy sad. I like to be happy sad. That's the good kind of sad. Yes. I like to be unhappy, lethal sometimes. I get that from Cocteau Twins and the Pretenders song, Back on the Chain Gang. That song makes me bawl. Does it? It destroys me. Because it's about her two bandmates who died. I never knew that. Is this Brass in Pocket? It's the same band, but. Powers that be, and force us to live like we do. That last note. We go from minor to major, making us pop. That kills me, and I might start crying right now, so stop looking at me. Okay, I'll stop. I'll stop. I love that music has this power, though, that's. It does. Fun fact, I'm dead inside. Wait, music doesn't make you cry? Are you serious? Nothing makes you cry? Nothing makes me cry. What? Let's try to make him cry. I'm ready. Next episode. I will cry. But it'll be crocodile. Check this out. What's one song? We have to break down. On a future episode of One Song. Okay, because I'm just very into stems right now, so I'm just trying to think what's one. See, this one I can't answer quick enough, but I tell you what it should be. You can't answer this one, dude. I want it to be the Jackson 5, I Want You Back. ♪ Oh, baby give me a little chance ♪ ♪ I want to be that dream ♪ Daniel Smith, thank you so much for playing this game and for joining us. Where can people find you? We want to find you. We want to find you. Is there anything you want to promote? The best thing that you can ever do is to buy and read and talk about my book, Shine Bright, a very personal history of black women in pop. It is in paperback. It's a beautiful purple color in paperback, right? It is beautiful. I brought a copy. You can sign it for me. Yes. I would love that. Thank you. Absolutely. I have a newsletter called Shine Bright HQ. You can find me on Substack. And all over social media, I'm the same nickname, Danamo, which is from high school. D-A-N-A-M-O. There I am. I hope to see you out there. Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure having you on the show. Such an honor having you on the show. Thank you for coming by. Oh, I had so much fun. If you can't tell, I had the most fun. Thank you for having me. We went through all the emotions together. It was beautiful. All of them. As always, you can find us on Instagram and TikTok. You can find me on Instagram @Diallo, D-I-A-L-L-O, and on TikTok @DialloRiddle. And you can find me on Instagram @Luxury, L-U-X-X-U-R-Y, and on TikTok @LuxuryXX. You can also watch full episodes of One Song on YouTube now. Just search One Song Podcast. We'd love it if you'd like and subscribe. Speaking of which, if you've made it this far, I think it means you like this podcast. So please don't forget to give us five stars, leave a review, and share it with someone you think would also like the show because it really helps keep it going. Luxury, help me in this thing. I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, and musicologist Luxury. And I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddle. And this is One Song. We'll see you next time. Now at Kroger, your points add up to more ways to save every trip. Use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump. You can even save up to $35 on your next fill-up. Same points, more choices. 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