Ch. 17: Lizzy Pace, Writers’ Assistant | Matt Freund, Editor | David Schwartz, Composer

[MUSIC PLAYING] Hi there. Welcome to the Good Place, the podcast. Janet, what's a podcast? A podcast is a thing humans invented to procrastinate from doing important things, like actual work or spending time with their families. Meet. Enjoy this week's episode. [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to the Good Place, the podcast. I'm Mark Evan-Jackson. I play Sean. Today, we're talking about chapter 17, season two, episode three, team cockroach, directed by Morgan Sackett, written by Dan Skofield, and including guest cast, Tia Sircar, Rebecca Hazelwood, and Joanna Sodomura. Michael attempts to convince the humans to be on his side, and to keep his ruse from Sean and Vicki. He tells them he can get them to the real good place. Michael gets Cheedy and Jason on his side, and Tahani is hesitant until he shows her her death at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Eleanor plans to flee to Mindy's until Michael reveals that Cheedy agreed to help her in each reboot, but only on the condition that Michael joins them for ethics classes. The neighborhood is fake rebooted with Vicki playing the top point getter and mayor. My guest today, our composer, David Schwartz, editor Matt Freund, and Good Place writer's assistant, Lizzie Pace. Lizzie, David, and Matt, welcome. Everything is great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Lizzie, you've been in the room for every single podcast, and I think this is the first word for me from you. I have. It's very exciting. Are you just full of the room with things that you want to correct me in? Yeah. This is already going pretty badly. Oh, really? I got a sign. Yeah. In a sense, this episode is almost the season two pilot sort of thing, right? Like we had the two-banger that got us started, and then we undiddle of that with Dance Dance Resolution. This, what is effectively the third episode in the season, really is kind of a reset, right? This outlines a new game. Yeah, it's starting a new trajectory for the season. You might think, oh, we're going to see them play this out in like a ton more reboots. People might be sad about that, because they don't get any more fun restaurant names. But we go back to Froyo. But yeah, I think this season was definitely Michael's arc, and so we see the start of that here. He's not on their side, but he is. He's moving in that direction. You see that he's going to be forced to take ethics classes, and perhaps understand more what the humans are going through. He's maybe not on their side, but he certainly needs them, or has realized that he needs them in a way that I don't think was apparent before, right? Yeah, definitely. David, let's talk about the music. How does it, you composed the theme to the good places? Yes. Yes. Who talked to you first? Have you worked with Mike Sure before? No, I hadn't worked with anyone on the show. It was really different and interesting. Have you ever played music before? Once. Junior high clarinet. Sure. I was the first kid out of the clarinet class. That's true. Yeah, then I went on to other instruments where I did slightly better. But I got a call from my agent, which is not the way it usually happens, but just these guys want to go meet you. And I knew nothing. And it was go meet you today, I think, or tomorrow, whatever it was quick. Wow. And I went in. And they're sort of like this many people, and there's me. And you know, there are the interviewers, and yeah. Hundreds, six or seven, you know, our producers, intimidating bunch. And they're all asking me questions. And they were asking me mainly about Deadwoods. I was really confused. I did the theme for Deadwood, and they wanted stories about David and how that theme came about. So I said, this is a comedy, right? This is a deal. But we don't care about that. It's very Mike Sure kind of thing. We don't care about that. Just tell us about Deadwood. So I did what I could remember. And then we just talked about where we lived and turns out David Minor lives on my block. So it was great. And I have to see him walk his dog all the time now. He's a friendly guy. I have to see him walk his dog. Oh, it's a very fun town. So they won't come to the studio. I keep on inviting him. He says, yeah, that would be great. Is your studio here on the lot? No, it's on my lot and the back of my lot. Oh, it's at your house. It's a separate building behind my house. A few short steps from David Minor's house. We probably shouldn't be saying that. But why wouldn't you think that? I mean, you can. We'll cut it. So did they commission you then to write this? Interesting. Again, usually you're going for these meetings. And earlier on in my career, I got like, yeah, I got it. You know, they're acting like I got it. And they were hard to read. And I left. And I think by the time I got back, I got a call from my agent. And she said, do they want you to do it? And I go, what? And I go, like, the good boy says, oh, that's amazing. I really want to do it because I was just intrigued by the show and intrigued by the people. And oh, another thing they said to me early on that should be included was, we really don't use music. We don't like it very much. The best you'll ever hear from us is, yeah, that's okay. That's fine. They're not going to get excited. And I feel we've gotten way past that. Even in the pilot, you know, I forget it was either Drew or Mike, I said, we really love the music. So that was a big hurdle for me to get there. In that instance, they're talking about scoring, right? Which you always also do on the show. Right, I don't see really a difference, too. The theme is just one part of the score. Okay. And to me, they're similarly interested. But usually a composer these days, if you go for the interview, it's usually followed up by writing a score as a demo. Okay, I just submit. And they might have a number of people do it. It might be the whole show or it might be just a scene or would it be unusual to compose the theme to a program and not move on to score? Or does that happen as well? I've done that. It's usually I do both, but it depends. Sometimes if you do it in genres where they use who songs, for instance. Oh, yeah, and then you don't get to write the theme. Unless you happen to have a new opinion. I haven't had a lot of songs. It's a show that had big songs or so. Usually I write the theme. To talk briefly about the theme, it's an A. It's in three, four or six, eight. Excellent. Which, I'm glad you remember the key. I do. It's in three, four. Okay. And it's brief. Why is it a Waltz? Why is it three? Now you've totally thrown it. Do you have a perfect picture? No, I've set it down and figured out how to play it. Nice. I just thought there was something lifting and inviting about it. You're talking about the three meter about it. I am. Yeah. The biggest thing was, oh, can you write a theme? It's going to be five seconds. Is that what they said? Five seconds. It's holy cow. We've got a card. It's five seconds. And so I really wanted something memorable. So that was my goal. I think we might have stretched to almost seven because we go into the show. How dare you? And-- How indulged? Seven seconds. And at the last minute, I replaced the sample. Oh, well, I tried to have everything real where I came. It's not an English horn? It's a noble. It's a noble. OK. And Chris Blath played it. And he did a fantastic job. And that was really last second. I don't even think I ever told the producers, oh, I'm replacing this with a real one. But that sounds good. And that was-- we moved on. So they were true to their claim that they weren't going to lavish you with fries. No, they're good on that now. And the real test of the show was doing the initiation scene where Michael's talking and bringing everyone in in front of the screen. Maybe there's a better word for it. But because that was really tough. And they had tried everything to temple with it before I came in to lay out the premise of their appoints. And you can lose some and you can-- Right. It's like a minute and a half or so. That's a long scene for this show. And it had to have music that it was sort of the first thing everyone was going to hear. And I think-- and I don't usually do this. I presented them 10 different ways. Wow. None of which they liked, but they liked-- [LAUGHTER] That's wrong. They liked some part of everyone. And it sort of in the end became a sort of merging and mash up of those different ideas. Very interesting. Matt, you've been with the show since season 2, is that right? Correct, yeah. And is editing this show different than it is for other television programs? Slightly different sometimes. Mike has a unique process of working where he likes to work in the order of the episodes. And he doesn't really like to-- And also, he doesn't start in post really, really digging in to the episodes until production is finished, which is really nice for us in post because it gives us plenty of time to get through our cuts. We're not typically working on two episodes at the same time. I guess in that sense, describe your job. So we shoot things on a soundstage or on a location and you get handed, what, media in the form of cards or something? Yeah, well, me personally, I just-- I am pretty fortunate in the way we set up our project in that I get a script that's broken down just like a normal script you would see for the show. But every single line is broken down and a dot that I can click on and play back that line instantly. Really? Which is nice for editing, but it's even better when they're producers or directors in the room. And they go, can we just see this other take of this line? And you just click it and show them all four takes in a row. And it's really fast. So who's done that before you get it? The Assistant Editor. OK. Is that-- yeah. And are these-- there's a script supervisor named Valeria. And has she put an asterisk near things or numbered things in saying, this is the director's preferred one? Occasionally, but not really. And I don't actually-- this is bad to confess, but I don't pay much attention to that. That's not bad if that's why we're doing this part. That's what the podcast is for. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I just watch all the takes and I kind of just go with what I like the most. That's fascinating. Yeah. But and the director has there two days to come in and work on the episode. So if they had something really particular in mind that they want it and they come in, they change it. Do you get dailies every? day. Do you get? Yeah. Every day they're shooting, we get the previous day's footage and then you work on that. Yes. And you sort of comp together what you should, what you think should be in there. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah. So I start, you know, if I have a whole scene, I'll start. I'll read the scene again. I've written the script already. And then I'll just start and try to go from there to. So if I'm directing the episode Monday through Friday, the following week, I come in with you and I sit for two days and you, and you've got it pretty much done, right? Yes. And then I go, you know, there was a take that we did that was more interesting from this perspective and you go find that by clicking on your dots. Exactly. Yeah. And are able to insert that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all broken down by, you know, they shoot typically, they shoot three cameras on the show. So it's broken down like, you know, first it'll be a wide shot. And so it'll be the size, it'll start typically widest and then go into closer. So interesting. Yeah. So you kind of know in the script where everything is. It's pretty fast and nice. It's got to be different than other shows too. Even things unique to this program like the magic in and out of a Janet and things in her hand and that sort of thing. Yeah. You're too young to remember the show bewitched. But I feel like I remember. Okay. I feel like on that show, they would make all the actors freeze and they'd and they'd run her in or run her out. And then everybody would continue and you could 100% feel it. See it and feel the cut. Yeah. Yeah. And this show, it's unique and that they do it across the cut where, you know, you start to hear the Janet Ding before it happens and then, but you cut right as that happens and then she's there, which is really clever and smart. So fun, you know, it's, it always makes it like a surprising, funny moment when she appears or disappears. Mm-hmm. Lizzy, you mentioned your disappointment with the restaurant names. We do get a couple of good ones in this episode, um, a little bit chowder now as well as pump up the clam. Are those straight Megan and Ramagan? Uh, Megan is not the only person who pitches palms on it. You know, it's a team effort, but she does have a compulsion and can't stop doing it. And she has, yeah, she has like a real problem where she literally will keep doing 50 more and we'll move past that point in the script and then she'll keep pitching them until, uh, Mike tells her to stop. He actually has pictures he's taken of himself with signs up that say Megan stop, Jen stop, and Joe stop, I believe because he has to say it so frequently to them that he just puts the picture up on the screen. Yeah. This is when they're sitting at the 14 monitors with one keyboard. Yes. So everyone can see it. Yeah. That's ridiculous. David, uh, who else is in this department? I noticed that you have a music by, uh, credit on this as well. Is that because of scoring? How, uh, what are the, what's a music supervisor? What's a music editor? Well, music editor comes from my team, uh, the great Jason Newman who started out when he moved to town in my studio. And I said, you know, you should try this music editing thing. And now just look at any TV credit. It's doing them all. He's really successful because he's so good. It's just like part of the team. You know, he knows where all the music is. He can edit when we're on the stage. And so this worked great. But, you know, here we're sort of conflicting with sound effects. And what can we do here? And that's the kind of stuff that happens on the stage. Plus, you know, after we meet in spot, which is I get together with Mike and the producers and we just just go through the scene. I may be singing for the first time. Hopefully I get to see the whole show the night before when we start at the beginning and we decide what we should have music here. So the edits locked at that point, is that right? Um, usually this shows better than what's all about that. We pretty much locked at that much. Some shows are come to you and they're like, we think this is it, but we've made change at a hundred times. No, we know it's liquid and it's going to change a hundred times. Okay. You know, that's something that's come with the, you know, great advantage of modern technology. It comes with the fact that it can always be changed. Somebody has a better idea. They'll insert it at that point. But wait, are you saying that you hope to get it the night before so that you can kind of strategize some things that you want to play? And then are you performing it for people? How does it work? No, I just want to know what the show is so that I'm not seeing it for the first time. So I'm not so lost in the show that I can't think, well, you know what, now what can I offer? Okay. And then, and then we discuss it and we go through it and and Jason's there writing everything down. I prefer not to take the notes myself because I'm not that multitask coordinated. What do the notes look like? What are you saying? They're Google Doc. Okay. And they just say, where we come in, where we start, you know, what I really want, you know, I'd rather that my, just the emotions that he's wanting, not, you know, this should be sad music. This should be minor music. That doesn't help me as much as like, you know, like it's getting a little heavy here. How can we lighten this up? Oh, okay. We look at this a different way. You know, we already have the funny on the screen and what can we do because this is coming up. And so we'll really discuss, you know, different options. And then it's still an abstract thing because I got to go back and write music. And even what I say is different when I start to put notes against picture. That still amazes me. And, you know, I might pitch it another way or give them two different options so that they can pitch it the way we discussed it in the room. But also here, I think this might work better. I noticed in this episode, there's not always, there's not a bed under everything. Like plenty of it's very spare, right? Plenty of it's empty of score. Early on in this episode, Michael's pitching the plan sort of when we continue from the previous episode. Michael's saying, like, here's the deal we need to team up. And I feel like you are offering it a little bit of urgency. Like there's sort of a pizzicato string kind of appreciated, like, like almost a ticket, like do do do do kind of thing. Um, you're trying to, you're trying to convey that there's, uh, we have to get there, right? Like, right. Time is moving. Time is taking in that way. I don't know if I thought that literally about it. But yeah, I wanted the urge to say, but also an anxiety behind it and some tension. And then when you think that's the fine line, I thought I don't mean to interrupt this. This show is all about finding that fine line between dark and light and not just in my department, obviously. Sure. It's not a heavy dark drama, but, and it's a comedy, but, you know, it has serious moments. Oh, it's a comedy with very high stakes. Did you know the ending? No, I still don't know anything. Basically, oh, you should watch the show. I think you really enjoy it. No, we were, we were, we were, before it came up, I think the episode before we were called in posted to let us know. Wow. Uh, Lizzie, uh, this is a show with, uh, that's super stupid and very heavy. Hey, I mean, you know this. Um, these are conversations that you guys must have too, right? In the room to talk about like, oh, it's getting heavy here or, uh, here's a chunk of like we're speaking a lot of philosophy. So we need to move it out. That actually comes up a lot. It's got to right? Like it can't be a lecture. Yeah. We try to, especially after the table read, you know, you go through and you check off if things are getting lost or not. If there's a big area where no one's laughing, it's like, we can't forget that this is a comedy show. Once David finishes his score, are you the ones to insert it then Matt? Usually the, um, the assistant editors will cut it in. Okay. Um, because it's all timed out perfectly to the episode that's locked and, and then the music editor will sometimes go in on the stage if we need to fix something. And, um, for me, music, I guess my relation with music is that when I do my cut of the episode, I will use temp music, which is the score from previous seasons of the show. Oh, interesting. Yeah. To, um, to try to give the feel that we want for the scene. And then when we door spotting session, we'll go through every single queue that I've put in and we'll go, oh, we don't really want that actually. Or we like that. Let's keep it. Let's do a slight variation on it. You guys do an incredible job. Matt and Eric are uncannily good at tempering, which is can be intimidating, but even though it's my music, which is also, yeah, we have good source material. They're putting my music in there and I go, oh, I wouldn't use it that way, but that's really good. I thought of that. Defined spotting session. Okay. Spotting session is, we sit in the edit bay with David, me, Mike, sure. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Sometimes Morgan, Sackett and Jason, Jason, and the sound supervisor, who's more, uh, you know, spotting fully in effects. Okay. Different sound effects. Yeah. And I put time code up on the screen. And we sit there with like all of the queues for ADR, basically, all the queues for music. And we play down the episode and then we just start and stop whenever there's a music queue. Oh, interesting. We let it play through and then we'll stop and we'll talk about it for a little bit. And after that, how long once you sort of have an idea of what you're after, how long before a completed track, whether it's two seconds or a minute and a half is due. Well, it's usually the whole show is due. So I, it's pretty much usually around a week to deliver. Is that a lot? Is that not enough? Uh, it's kind of standard, but it means I'm working seven days usually. Wow. It's really much faster than that because there's a review process, too. So Mike really likes to hear it. And usually I, I'll come back again or we'll send it all over in quick times. And Mike's incredibly decisive. I don't know if he is in all your departments, but, you know, he certainly is brilliant. And he knows what he wants. And he can express it very easily. He said, well, this is great, but this is just wrong. And, you know, in a nice way. And then you have a place to go from there. So it really gets turned around twice. I have a thousand more questions. But before we do that, let's listen to a clip from this week's episode. How many different versions of this place have we been through? Uh, let's see. 800 and two. The longest one was 11 months. This current one has only been going for one week, or you guys barely know each other. It's gonna make this tough. What's that super tiny line? That's the shortest one, eight seconds. It was a butt reboot. I sat on the activator by mistake. Michael, was I also rebooted 800 and two times? Yes, why? Every time a Janet is rebooted, she increases her social awareness and abilities. I might be the most advanced Janet in the universe. So Janet isn't with you? No, there has to be a Janet in every neighborhood, good and bad. This one is an actual good place, Janet, that I stalled to help sell the roots. I guess it didn't work though, because you keep failing. Yes, thank you. You're welcome. If you're not human, why do you look like us? Everyone in the bad place bureau of human affairs gets randomly assigned a human body, so we can get the feel of how best to torture you. I gotta say, it took me a long time to get used to the hang of this. Gross. Now get your mind out of the guttural, remember I was talking about my testicles. Find full episodes of The Good Place on NBC.com and the NBC app. It bears mentioning that at the beginning of that clip, it's not surgery without anesthesia happening in the other room. It's Jason running around with a sparkler that you hear. It sounds like pain. It's him having the best time ever. Now let's talk about Ted's testicles. This lays it out. This is a scene where we see those failures. It's fun to remember some of the 802 from the previous episode. What's the total runtime of a. What's the target number for the length of a show? I believe it's 2130. Okay. Yeah, I think. What are those first cuts? Well, the first cuts, okay, so it's interesting. Yeah, the first cuts last year were coming in. For me, they were coming in around 30 minutes long. That's super long. Yeah, yeah. So that's your cut of the directors. That's my cut. And usually it doesn't change on this show at least between the directors cut and the editors cut lengthwise because Mike likes to see everything and everyone knows that. But that's like 50% too long. I mean, that's not just taking out breaths and stuff. Are you exercising story? Talk about that. Oh, definitely. And this is actually what you're talking about Mike being really quick and smart. Yeah, this is where his brilliance really shines in the editor room is that he can watch a scene and he immediately knows, oh, we'll just cut out this 30 second chunk. And I'm like, whoa, how does that work? Oh, wait, yeah, that does work. That's amazing. That's perfect. Because you would think it would influence. Like you would need that for later to that having been set up. Yeah, you would feel like, I mean, sometimes there's like a small joke in it or something where you're like, you're precious with these things and you don't want to lose them. And yeah, and sometimes there is something that you feel like could be a story-mom, but it's really not that important. The story doesn't change that much if you lose those beats. So, I don't know. Can you remember your favorite joke that's been cut? My favorite joke. That's been cut. Right. I'm going to come back to that. You would think about that really. I mean, you both have knowledge of things that the universe doesn't know about the good place. Like there's a whole shadow good place on NBC that no one's-- Well, we do release extended cuts of the episodes about that. I learned about that from fans on Twitter, like, because when it comes out on Hulu or Netflix or something, they're longer, right? They are, yeah. Sometimes they range from like 30 seconds to some, I think, maybe two minutes longer. Because there's a lot of good stuff. And when it airs on NBC, it has to be two-time. Right. So yeah, so as we're editing the episode and cutting it down, Mike will go, we'll save that piece for the extended cut. I like that. So as I'm working and as we're making cuts, I always keep a folder that just has like little sequences of lines, every single line that gets cut out, I say, and every-- But in the extended cut, it feels just like an episode, right? It's not something tacked on the-- Right. No, no, no. Yeah, because yeah, because it's-- we start with something that's way too long, and then we cut it down and down and down. And the whole time we're cutting it, it still feels like an episode of the show. It's not like a Frankenstein thing that we're shoving this line in later, you know? Right. Because it was-- Because it was-- It was much longer than that. That wasn't really? Yeah, so you've got to hear more. Her singing on the device. See how valuable that is? Was that done practically? I noticed that she was using a mic that was actually a UH transmitter. OK, it's all practical. Wow, good for her. Well, I'm T.S. her car. We introduced a plot point in this. It's sort of discovered by Janet herself that given the 802 reboots, she just might be the most advanced Janet of all time. I mean, that's got to open up the world for story and for her relationships. And as much as Michael has more to do in the season than he may have in season 1, we see that play out a little bit with Janet. It definitely is an important part for what happens later in the season when she learns how to lie. And she's maybe learning some sort of emotion type thing. It's very confusing. We really tried to stay away from like a robot learns to love. Right. We tried to do it in a unique way where it's like, oh, she's becoming more advanced. And yeah, that might play into the future. Season three. Describe everything about season three. So they're underwater. See, we've joked about-- we've joked about joking about this. And it's so uncomfortable because anything is possible. There are a little Atlantis-type situation. And Derek is the king. Yeah, I think. Is that what he pitched? You're the only person that's safe enough to joke about it because you actually know that we're not going to touch it. Nobody else sitting here at this table-- As far as I know, we're still on 3/12. So we'll see. David, you mentioned having thinking of the theme just as another-- are you thinking of this as a symphony? Or is the theme just the overture to an episode? It can be. I don't know if I'm ever that kind of thinker. I just sort of say something in front of me. I think of nodes where I put my hand on. And then this node starts to attract me. And it builds into something. And I don't analyze it while I'm doing it or afterwards. Maybe I should. I don't change nothing. I will say that I'm always trying to advance the story. And if I-- I will go back and say, oh, this is a really fun piece of music, but it's so wrong. Let's start again. You have inadvertently or otherwise described Mike's process, Mike Schoer's process, for coming up with names. He says he just sits at a keyboard and starts typing letters. And then you wind up with shell strap. But do you have an orchestra in your mind? Like a lot of it seems to be strings and sort of staccato. And then there are flowing. I feel like there's cello throughout. Are there themes to this, the instrumentation, the voicing of things? But also does Michael have a theme? Does Eleanor have a theme? Is it that sort of thing in your mind? Well, there are Eleanor themes, for sure. And there are probably ones that we've used with Michael more. And is this a cheaty love theme? Oh, really? Yeah, it's the first time we see them together. And then Mike said, let's use this here. And then, well, that's not the cheaty love theme anymore, because we just happen to work in another spot. So I don't know if we're that precious about it. But one thing I really love about the show and I've done a lot of shows, which I also love the other way, too, where, oh, your music is a kitchen sink, everything, you know? Here it's reggae, here it's an orchestra, here it's a big band. Can we do some electronic music? And then the challenge in those kind of shows, for me, I'm talking about different series, is still making them sound like they're coming from the identity of that show. And you see, which somehow works its way out. But I was really thrilled about this, because I felt when I met the producer that this was going to have a palette. Palette was the word I'm looking for. Yeah, wow, I found a word. That's really good for me. I mean, we do this for living in a grid at it. Yeah, and the palette of instruments for the textures and voices. I sort of like when I was writing those 10 initial themes for the initiation scene, well, this worked, this didn't work. And sometimes, still to this day, I'll say, well, I'm getting tired of this palette. And I'll put this instrument in, and it just doesn't work. By and large, when you're scoring the show, are you writing it on a computer using voice patches and then do real people play it? As you mentioned with the obo, or is it all within logic or some application? Pretty much. I use the competitor to logic, digital performer. OK, which nobody uses anymore. OK, that's what makes it unique now. And I sometimes use Pro Tools, too. Sure. And I won't say my thoughts about logic. But I usually sit down at a keyboard. Sometimes I sit down at a ukulele, or a guitar, or a piano, or as opposed to electronic keyboard, my real piano. So yeah, sometimes you just need to sort of jar your brands. I'll pick up a different instrument. It may not even end up on that instrument. It's something I might write on a sort of guitar-based instrument or a mandolin comes out differently. And as much as I can within the time period, I try to put real musicians to add to it. You know, either play the written parts or on top of it, it can go either way. And they would come to your home and record there? Yes, my studio, in my home. Your studio. They're not in the bedroom. But they used to be. But there's one who has to go to be mentioned, that they could be great George Jering, who works with everyone. And I think if George ever retired, scoring would really change for the worse in this town. You know, I lose him a couple of months a year at a big Tom Newman movie. And he goes, "Oh, gee, well, let's see, I have Tom Monday and I have Tom Tuesday, and I have Tom-- George, you tell me, you can't do it. Just say, you know, he's so nice." And he's like a scoring machine. I shouldn't admit how much he adds, but he does. He's just really fantastic. He doesn't just play guitar. He just sort of looks the picture and knows what to add and plays all different kinds of instruments. So I try to get him. first. Do you that makes me think do you do hear dialogue is music like do you are you playing counterpoint to the the words being spoken the things not spoken very much so and I've known to I've been known to really annoy my sound engineers by never turning it off you know they go I'm gonna turn off the dialogues I can mix this I said no that's lead instrument wow yeah everything else is counterpoint to that how cool and I started my first television show which came out of nowhere and I had no idea how to do it but I was very fortunate it was northern exposure oh wow which was you know dialogue the whole time and has some similarities to this show and a sort of the Spaniard universe you know in these quirky characters and it's not the most dark place but bad things happen to and so I learned to do it and literally learned to do it because I didn't have a clue but one thing I always knew that dialogue was gonna rule Lizzie we see Tahani's death for the first time which is sort of remarkable to think that we've made it this far into the show without having seen it and I love that by way of torturing her even further not only is she once again in the shadow of Camilla her sister but like when she confronts her she's like at her worst point she had to sneak in dressed as a waitress or something oh for sure and it's in Cleveland which I think is the most grating part for her we had a lot of fun coming up with what the you know what really would bring her over to Michael's side if she has that moment where she really realizes oh I'm I'm this this kind of monster person actually I love that that's her moment of outrage is saying I died in Cleveland like that's oh yeah that's the part that stands out for her um have we seen everybody else's death I guess we had seen everyone I think except Tahani and it's so weird that I like that I didn't even notice that yeah very interesting now let's hear from one of our completely real sponsors promotional consideration is furnished by do you suffer from seasonal allergies are you sick of the sneezing coughing itchy eyes sinus headache or chronic night fatigue you may need nasal pro for possible relief of allergy symptoms as well as potentially curing a bunch of other stuff when used in conjunction with several prescription medications that have been proven to work nasal pro has the potential to work it's not technically medicine but it is technically chalk don't ask your doctor about nasal pro just take it what's the worst that can happen nasal pro pretty good for a not medicine so Mark I feel like I should take this opportunity to ask you a few questions oh boy here we go I wanted to know what has been the most surprising part of working on this podcast for you how much work it is it's been it was a surprising to me to learn because I think this was a childhood dream that it could be your job to watch TV but rewatching these episodes like there's there's actually work involved in podcasts I think I thought all my friends who had a podcast before were just you know goofing around and to you know to get into into the room and in the seat you should be prepared how do you prepare are you on the reddit thread what's a reddit oh god I don't understand the internet this Google doc that grant sends me a couple days before each time is the extent of my technological capability I was one time was in the Google doc typing and Lizzie you were also typing and it freaked me out do you know what I mean right she took like Lizzie pace and then letters started appearing very fast yeah yeah I didn't mean to intimidate you yeah oh for sure Lizzie now it's my turn okay you're in the writers room your job title is what I am the writers assistant so basically what my job is I'm kind of like a court stenographer just for like poop jokes but basically I just I take notes for the writers when they are talking about things they're on story or they're pitching jokes okay which is a debatable percentage of the day it's not a hundred percent right it's not what a hundred percent no the writers room is a bit of a dorm right like it feels college-y to me yes you are you're trapped with all these people there all day and all of the smells and people's tics and I know what every single person does like when they're bored like some of the writers make little creepy art projects like Dylan makes these creepy little art things you it's essentially described what you're talking about because our minds are reeling I don't they look like they're like potholders they're definitely not potholders but he made one reason thinking not at all they're like things that you can make out of index cards okay and Josh made a picture that's of a sunset and he just puts it up on the wall he just sometimes looks out at it like it's a window we have no windows you're describing it in asylum yeah it's very similar it's very similar to asylum yeah there are no there's no windows just that sunset so I'm gonna bring one point is with the first time I heard writers assistant ISM it was a writer yeah that's the most people said and that person had an assistant you are the writers assistant for a giant yeah a gaggle of writers 14 writers we have a script coordinator who's Tyler who is fantastic and he actually wrote an episode on season two yeah uh he sometimes makes this thing called keeks which I feel like are important to discuss that are he takes all the writer's faces and then makes them say things in his own accents that kind of cut them down to the core like from like it was something about like I love baseball or something like that like a like a jet jet video where like their chin moves it is yes he has like yeah the it moves one right one direction like a south park right yeah okay and uh sometimes Michael be like Tyler make a keek for that and so there's a lot of weird stuff on the internet you have a oh yeah go on do tell um we have an account for the room I won't say what it is but it makes comments on youtube on various of us um oh and we have a writer's pa Dana and she is lovely and she gets lunch and she basically runs the whole office in this episode the four humans uh have to have a couple of huddles a couple of gaggles to go and decide whether or not they're going to team up with Michael uh in one hilarious element uh Kristen belt climbs across the ledge into her bedroom and Michael reveals that that was just uh another element of the torture and he reveals the stairs um but these are this is an opportunity for all these four characters to express their misgivings and what they're worried about with Michael yes yes it definitely is and I I think my favorite one is Jason where he's just like oh I trust all people in bow ties and you're just like what is this versus backstory it's so insane he comes down really strong with it though yeah I have a policy basically yeah he's very confident about it she's like oh I guess he's probably right um and then of course Eleanor uh she's gonna bail she fains that she needs a moment alone she calls Janet and says get me a train and and load it to the brim with cocaine yeah which is actually foreshadowed and because that does happen does happen can we revisit that jokie we're just talking about what the raised platform bed that she's been struggling to get over just high enough to be absolutely annoying yes and she spends a season on that I I don't remember what episode it's revealed and there's the button there but I was so impressed by Mike Mike sure on that I said how long have you been holding that he says oh yeah I thought of that early on the second or third episode I said you could like there must have been moments where you needed a joke and that it's a great one you could have used it in the next episode but he withheld and to get the bigger that strength right to keep your powder dry and go like it'll be more powerful really made me realize what we were dealing with yeah there's a bunch of stuff on the pilot that's not going to come up till season four just wait all right that ability to think that far ahead he's playing comedic chess no I was just cut my line maybe there is Matt are there any continuity errors that we haven't noticed a thousand real apart thousands yeah truly yeah I'm sure yeah I mean there's uh I mean continuity can be like if someone's hand is here you know by their side and then and the next shot it's up by their head or would it yeah but um we try not to let that change too much about the way we cut a scene if someone is standing slightly off the skew as they were in previous shot and most of the time people don't notice it if if the performance is good that makes me think do you uh we've spoken with David neednoggle on this podcast um you must coordinate with the visual effects team to sneak in things like mic acooning and all that sort of yes of course um yeah how does that work um so you know we'll we'll do a cut of the whatever shot has uh the visual effect in like your cocooning and um we'll give that to David and he'll do kind of a temp version of it at first and then we'll cut it in and put that either show that to the director or or micon so I'm uh I'm completely ignorant of all this stuff do all work in the same application the same uh we will um the editors all work in avid media composer okay and then David I believe works in Maya um which is a visual effects program and um We pull for him like a really high-res files and he works off of those Okay, when he does his work But eventually they come back to you and you they do yeah, and then we like bring them back into avid and then put them in our cut And then it all gets delivered somehow at some point. Yeah, yes, yeah They online it and I'm not too involved with that process of the assistant editors put a lot of the final pieces in Because at that point the cuts totally locked and nothing about the timing changes in in the episode and they're usually dropping in final elements and that's for the The network the 21 30 21 30 second version kind of thing. Yes It's daunting. I can't imagine like you must have had to have cut canany things Things that would impact the show. Yes Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It seems like a I don't want your job Yeah, I guess like for the continuity also going back to David need no goal is that sometimes if there is like an opportunity to fix something where You know someone's hand is up by their head in one shot We do split screens in the avid and kind of to take one person's performance From one half of the screen like if it's on the back of their head and we'll cut in something that matches for when we cut back to them on the other side Why and then David will do a nice version of that or they'll do it in Color correction. Wow. Something. I remember that was very important to the show that got cut was in the pilot Eleanor originally calls to honey a butt head and there was no fact of Switching to honey's butt and head and that never made it in and I think what did it get made like did it get drawn and I yes I think it was too scary Talk of that. Yeah, with a very rough representation of the butt head. Yeah, I think it was too freaky like You know you know you're in hell But but like you have to keep so many details on your head And is that where they say or do you keep a pad by you? I mean you're playing on a really I mean, it's just a point because when I do I add it to and I like in my head I go I got to do that you know I'm thinking 20 steps ahead to get to the point and I don't want to lose the Inspiration of it. I do have a similar process. Um really for me. It's just about The script most of the time like I'm trying to capture what is so funny about the script and Do that by using the best performances from the cast, you know because And sometimes they'll do improv or whatever and yeah, I mean that's like a big part of it We have not a ton of improv in the show, but there is definitely improv or lines that are What we call alt lines which are you know, they write the writers do many versions of jokes or whatever and and The writer will be on set when they're shooting so they'll go in and and Give the actors that line and then we have all those various lines in our script that we cut with so It's really just what feels like the best But then sometimes that'll get changed out and Mike gets in the room or Yeah, how did you keep track on dance dance resolution? Oh, that was Eric But yeah, that was insane. He did an amazing job on that episode It's it's an incredibly well edited episode What does that mean to you? What is incredibly well edited? Well, okay So there's this montage in that episode where of all the resets and it's like you did an amazing job David also with the score It's just like it's it's brilliant like that that is an Emmy worthy episode for ed And it uh, yeah, it for what was the question? What does it mean to you that like when you watch television? Yeah, you watch television different than I watch tell Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know it for gags and and performances right and you're going like that glass was helpful Not just continuity. No, that's my question. It's not just about continuity. Yeah, no It's it's all about pacing for me. I guess um and this has a lot to music also Is that you try to build like a rhythm to the joke and there's a lot of information like that gets it sets up the joke or whatever But you're always like for me at least I'm trying to get through that kind of quickly So that the joke can hit in the best way. So why are you good at comedy? What's your comedy background? I started in channel 101 It's basically a monthly comedy film festival where people make short films and Screen them in front of a live audience and not ease folks for which ones they want to see come back for another episode That's great. So that was your 10,000 hours. That was like we camp on kind of yeah Yeah, I started there and I met a lot of amazing people through that and They kind of get me small jobs or whatever and and I don't think anyone on the podcast will find it interesting, but I actually was working at Fox Digital Studio. Oh when I'll find you were yeah, you would find that interesting. Yeah, I was working at Fox Digital Studio right as they were starting the show that you were on there I've done all of their shows. Okay, which one was that it was the one that Jordan was directing and mashup mashup or yeah, oh no Fox fix Fox fix. That was it good. Yeah, yeah, Fox fix Um, this is a plug for Fox fix now That I left right as I was starting that was a me Thomas middle ditch Angela Trimber. Yeah, it was Camille on that I feel like Um, yeah, those are good dudes. They're great. Yeah, it was a really fun show to work on Um, no good place certainly. No, I mean nothing is really nothing like the show Well, I have a bunch more questions, but I think it'll have to wait for a different episode David Schwartz what's good You were warned Well, I was thinking of other things, but I I think everyone in this show is good and tries to be good and I think it's very interesting culture here And I think that the show is sort of influencing us and I'm a little bit better driver on the road I think of what's good now because we're always in that's always the discussion and it's not just purely intellectual and I think it comes from Mike and You know when I do go to you know when I was on the set I saw a very happy set. Oh my goodness. Yes, and so I'm not wrong. Oh, you're right. No, and it's it's not a given It's not a given at all and it can be done a lot of different ways But I think this is a great way and and it feels that way in post and and it's just really a pleasure and a joy Matt Freund what's good? My wife is pretty good No, she's truly good. Yeah, she's a she's a great great pretty good. All right My wife. We scream for it whenever anyone says my wife. Okay. You recognize that you said pretty good Cut that out. Okay. Um take it back Use this one. We're using this whole thing. No, we're 100% using this whole thing. Yes. Yeah You're the editor. We're not doing it. Lizzie pace. What's good? Um you've had months. I You've told me I was doing this today by the way Uh, I would say things that are good Uh, Vanderpump rules It is a show about the worst The worst people And it is amazing We always say in our room like monsters and idiots are like the most fun people to write and they like literally write themselves I highly recommend starting with season one if you are going to start it Uh, is this a spin off from like a real housewives kind of Universe. Yes, it is a spin off of real housewives of Beverly Hills You don't need to watch it to watch Vanderpump. I would argue that it is I don't need to exceed it anymore. I You might say that but literally on election night I was like forking sobbing and Uh, I said to my friend. I was like can we go watch Vanderpump rules and it's literally that that is it's a great thing for that This has been the good place the podcast. I'm Mark Evan Jackson Thank you for listening go do something good This has been the good place the podcast and now to deliver our credit sequences bad genit take it away bad genit Whatever If you enjoyed this podcast, which like how is that even possible? Please subscribe It's available on all major podcasting platforms or wherever you get your podcast I don't even know or if you don't want to subscribe You can also just listen to your mom's butt you fat dink. Yeah, Burns Why don't I handle the credits? The podcast is hosted by Mark Evan Jackson produced by Grant Rutter It's written by Lizzie Pace and the music is composed by David Schwartz Damon Schwartz see you next time nerds