Celebrate Your Girlfriends with Rita Wilson

I mean, who would remember that? That's pretty good. You could totally learn that cheer. I could teach it to you one day because she could do it. I know the words to it, but. One, two, tell me who are you? The Bears. Three, four, tell me who's going to score? The Bears. Five, six, tell me who's got the kicks? The Bears. Seven, eight, tell me who's really great? The Bears. Nine, ten, tell me who's going to win? The Bears. Say it again. The Bears. Who's going to win? The Bears. Woo! Good, the pom-poms. Very well done. Very well done. Hey. Hi, Craig. How are you? I'm good. I'm happy to be back in action with you. I know. How are you doing? I'm doing well. I feel good. I feel rejuvenated. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Anything exciting happening in your life since I've seen you last? No. No, just the usual stuff. We're trying to get school done for the year, but. Are they still both playing instruments? Are they still following their music stuff? They are. Austin still takes piano lessons. Aaron is counting the days until he can stop playing the trumpet. Yeah. And it's a shame because he's such a good musician. Uh-huh. Because, you know, he started on the viola, and when he practiced that at home, it was lovely to hear, but he did not like it. Oh. So he, we told him he had to finish it because he started it. Yeah. And he's in eighth grade, going to be going to high school, and I think this is the end of the line. Well, we always tell him, I mean, for both of us and for everybody I know, the thing we all wished we had kept up was our instrument. Because music, I mean, you know, and our next guest is a living example of, you know, when you hold on to music in your life, when you don't let that muscle atrophy, you know, even if you've done a ton of things, you can always go back to it. You can come back to it. Yes. Yes. But our guest today is a dear, dear friend of mine. Rita Wilson. Rita Wilson. And I love her to death. And I can say, you know, there are some people we have on here who are friends of yours, and I'm either an acquaintance of mine, but I feel like Rita's my friend, too, because, and I'm going to wait until she comes out to tell the story, but I am so happy she's here, and she just brightens the whole room when she walks in. She is a ray of sunshine. But let's do a. A proper introduction. I'll give her her introduction. Rita Wilson is a multi-talented singer, songwriter, actress, and producer. She has released six studio albums, one of which we have right here called The Sound of a Woman, and it's her most recent, which is a collection of songs that explores the arc of a woman's life. So without any further ado, Rita Wilson. She's in there being a producer. I saw. You're the only one who looks. What are you doing? You're the only one who has ever been looking at the screen. I was wondering. It's like, why don't you say her name? Most people sit. Because she wasn't sitting in the chair. She was not sitting in the chair. Are you thinking of your busy body? Are you thinking of your busy boots? Yep. Just listening to two of my favorite people. That's all. Welcome to I Am I. I am so good to see you. So good to see you. Hi, honey. Hi, everyone. You at our house. I love it. I love it. It's so nice to be here because I've only seen it on TV. So I'm very happy to be here. Thank you. You're looking fabulous. What do you have on? Well, you know, it takes a village. It takes a village. You said you had an alternative outfit. I have a little wardrobe malfunction, but this is something that I feel very comfortable in. You look great. I think it's all about comfort. Like, if it's not comfortable, don't put me in it, you know? Really. Because I can't be myself. We're like the beatniks. Speaking of comforting, comfort, so you probably don't remember this, but I remember the first time I met you, Mish was having one of her dinner parties at a hotel somewhere in D.C. Do you remember? You and Tom were there. I think I know which one it is. And it was small because there were tables of just six people. You know, it was really small. And I was the only civilian there. It was just celebrities galore. And I was, he came, he's like, you should come to dinner with us. And he didn't know. He was just sort of like. I was in town and she was like, come on by for dinner. I thought I was going by their house. So I was on my way over there. She's like, no, no, no. We're at the such and such hotel. And I go over there and I walk in and I'm like, oh, I felt underdressed. And everybody in there is just like so nice and nice looking and. So clean and fresh. Clean and fresh. And you fit right in. I was, I felt like an outlier. But you were sitting at another table, but you were sort of back to back, side to side with me. Right. And you made sure that I felt included in the whole evening. And you would, you would lean over and say, hey, and you'd talk about it. And then somebody would say something. You say, you hear that? And you were so sweet to me. I will never forget that. Oh, well, thank you. Thank you. I feel like that's important, though. I can. I do. Because I can't. I think, you know, this is partly, you know, what we'll be talking about, I think, today. But I think it's so important that there's so many people that feel like they're just invisible, you know, sometimes. And even if you don't feel invisible, you can be made to feel invisible if you're in the wrong situation or crowd. Right. It's hard for me to feel invisible. Oh, yeah. It's hard. That is true. That is true. But I wouldn't say in your case you were invisible. But sometimes it's just that extra sort of somebody noticing that, you know, hey, you're here, you know. Yeah, it was really sweet. I see you. I see you. Exactly. But I want to know, how did you two meet the first time? Oh, it was at the first inauguration. Uh-huh. And I'll never forget this because it was so impactful to me. But I think it was at one of the events at the Lincoln Memorial. And Tom was speaking. And, um. Afterwards, there was like a little get-together in the tent for anybody who had performed or spoke that time. And you and the president got up on stage and you said, I really want you all to pray for us and keep us in your prayers as we go into this. And that really impacted me because I thought, exactly right. We do need to do that. Like in, I'm Greek Orthodox, as you know, but in our church, we always, you know. Yeah. You know, pray for our leaders and hope that they are doing the right things and, you know, they're for the right reasons. So. Yeah. And you definitely did that. Well, it feels like I've known you my whole life and we've had some just amazing conversations. And in those conversations, I know how important your family is, how much, how important your work has been. But one of your major passions is music, as we talked about. Yeah. And this is your sixth album. Yes. The Sound of a Woman. Congratulations. Congratulations. And we're going to, you know, we're going to do something a little bit different today because we've got a couple of songs queued up. Oh, yes. Yes. Great. Okay. And whenever you or one of us thinks it's the right time, we can do a little bit of a listen and talk about it. But I wanted to start by having you. Tell our listeners what the album is about, why you wrote it, why now? I love that. Okay. So it's called Sound of a Woman. Why? Well, it was really to explore what that experience is like from different phases and experiences of a woman's life. And my co-writer, Amy Wodge, and I, we had the first song was Sound of a Woman, the title track. Because we're like. Like, what is the sound of a woman? So through this process of songwriting, I started to really feel like I wasn't alone. Like, it wasn't just my story. So many women are going through these same things and experiencing those, the same things. So like, even though it's very specific some ways to what I'm going to be writing about, personally, it's this experience of. It all is, I think, universal. So, Rita, you're thinking, all right, I have something to say. What made you want to say it through songwriting as opposed to screenplay writing or poetry or something else? Okay, good question. Ooh, ding, ding, Craig. It's a good question point. I'm getting good at this job. Very good. You do it enough times, you can get good at it. You got it. Well, I think. - I think you can ask any person alive, like what did you love to do when you were a kid? and that well they'll have an answer for you and so mine was music and i loved music and i would get up and sing at the drop of a hat i would sing ode to billy joe like just think of a 10 year old going like it was the third of june another sleepy dusty i don't know i won't sing all of it because who knows there might be legal reasons i can't sing yeah you know i don't think about it we can't afford it exactly so um but that song was fascinating to me because it really told the story of like i came from this very boisterous family and then i had this song that people were like going oh so somebody just jumped off a bridge and died and it's just threw something off the bridge don't you remember we were playing that game what song blew your mind which is a tom hanks favorite where we sat around the table and we talked about the song that blew our mind and then we played it and talked about it and yours was ode to billy joe yeah yeah and that was a song that i just thought okay why is everybody in this song just going past the peas after this big huge bomb has dropped on the dinner table you know and you were hearing the lyrics i a 10 year old a lot of times they're just like i think these are the words and they're mimicking it but you're taking it in the content of these songs but my mom was really good at that tell us more about your mom yeah she was a force in her own right oh my gosh she was extraordinary and um really an amazing person you know the she was my best friend and she was somebody that i knew i felt so much love so both my parents gave me that foundation of like whatever you want to do you always have a place to come back to they never stopped me and you know she was born in america but raised in in a little tiny village on the border of greece and bulgaria and they went there for a vacation the whole family when she was four years old and her dad died and the family during vacation during the vacation yeah and um they were young and so my grandmother was was your my mom was four so i think her mom must have been four so i think her mom must have been four so i think her mom must have been 32 something like that so eventually when things started getting rough my mom had to escape with her mom to by rough you mean the occupation yes exactly and so she stayed was she when she was 19 19 traveling alone yes yes exactly but yeah so both my parents were incredibly courageous but my mom was probably an artist in some way and i think she loved music but um but one of the songs on the album is called your mother and it's twofold because one of them is what are the questions you wish you had asked your mom if your mom is no longer with us and do our kids really know us i know so many amazing women who do incredibly wonderful things and i think that's one of the things that i've been in their lives like over the age of 50 and that is in some ways the beginning i heard a term the other day which i loved which somebody called somebody over 50 a queenager instead of a teenager i like that so i liked it too let's copyright that yeah i'm a queenager i'm serious dan somebody's gonna do that does that make me a kingager no no it doesn't roll off the tongue the same way does it no but that that idea that i've met so many women that are doing incredible things and um and they're somewhat different one than what they were doing in the earlier parts of their lives and everybody has a gift and if you have something you want to do do it you know if you do something consistently enough you do not get worse at it you can only get better at it that's right you can't get worse at it and and that really supported this endeavor of songwriting because i thought i would go down to nashville all the time and just write write write write and i thought well i know from watercolor or tennis i'm not going to get worse at it that's right i'm just gonna keep doing it you know you you back to school season, spend less on your kids with Amazon. I remember with my two youngest, one year, what they wanted for the upcoming school year changed four times on the way to the store. They were so focused on which backpacks or lunch boxes they wanted. Then they changed their minds minutes later. Do you remember what it was like to go school shopping with mom and dad? Oh, when we were kids? Oh, for sure. I mean, that was like excitement. It was like getting the new box of crayons, whether you could get the 16 variety or the 64. There was nothing that spelled progress in learning than a new box of crayons. When you increased your number. It was like, we are living large now. Fresh spiral notebooks. I was ready to fill it up. I know exactly what you mean. We had what we needed, but there was always that one thing mom would let us pick out that just made the whole year feel right. And for me, it was always the three ring binder. Just the empty three ring binder? Yeah, because you could get the binder with the action figure on the front. You could get Spider-Man. I just never went for the action figure. I like straight color. Spider-Man. What was the item for you? It was the spiral notebook with the paper already in it. And I like the colors because I like the color code for the subject. You'd get reading, you'd get math. I was highly organized. Less into the characters, more into the focus on being organized. Yeah, I remember that. School shopping can be so fun, though. The nostalgia of it all. We want the best for them, but we're also allowed to want back to school shopping to be a little bit easier and more affordable. It's good to save money. So, you know, you can spend it on your kids later. With Amazon, you don't have to worry about losing that shopping list anymore. They have so many options all in one place. No more driving to three different stores, giving your kids all the time in the world to rethink the erasers you just bought them. So remember, with Amazon's low back to school prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them, you know, yet. They're going to get you some way. Well, let's take a minute because we've got your mother queued up. Can we hear that while we're talking about our mothers? Because the lyrics on this song are amazing. Let's take a listen. Thank you. This is my favorite part. Oh, when she goes, time will show that everything you know, he taught you. Oh, when she's gone, like the words of a song her love has brought you home, she will always be your mother. Oh, man. Wonderful. Wow. Thank you. You got good at songwriting. You didn't get worse. Thank you. And just from a technical standpoint, so did you come up with the lyrics and then say, I got to figure out a melody to this? Or did you have the melody and then say, I got to write something to this beautiful song? How does that work? Every song is different. Amy Wodge, my co-writer and I, we. We knew, you know, sort of what the arc was going to be. And sometimes, like in this song, we wanted to just, you know, say to our children, we weren't always just your mother. Our kids come into the world and they're like, oh, you're my mom. They don't know you before. They just meet you as mom. They didn't know you were fast. No. They didn't know you could run. Exactly. Our mothers were really zipped up. They did not talk about stuff that generation. No way. And I also feel that I. I'm on the cusp of sort of this, you know, my mom's generation, which was very traditional and, you know, patriarchal because mom stayed home, dad went to work, and then there's. My little interim generation, the cuss, and then right ahead of me was Gloria Steinem and, you know, Bella Abzug and all the feminists that were sort of paving the way for women's rights. I always felt like I was straddling this balance of, like, who am I? Am I my mom's values? Am I these ladies' values? Well, I think we're growing as women to understand that it's not a zero-sum game. You can, you know, I know as I grow, I'm learning to appreciate all that my mother was in that tradition and the strength. I mean, like you said, we don't know who they are, as the song says. So, you know, and sometimes we don't take the time to listen, as the lyrics say. That's right. Listen, because they're never, that generation of mother was never going to tell you outright. But she was telling us about herself. In little ways. Yes. If we would listen. Exactly. You know? Exactly. Well, you know, the album follows your arc as a woman and to sort of create some context to that. I want you to take us on your arc, starting with childhood. Oh, my God. Okay. Oh, I love that. Because you've alluded to the fact that you are a Hollywood, California girl. Yeah. You know, even though you are the child of immigrants. Yes. You grew up. You grew up right down the street. Yeah. What was Rita like? What was little Rita like? Oh, my God. Little Rita. Little Rita. Well, I went to Hollywood High School right down the street. Which we pass every day. Yeah. Every day. Coming to the studio. I know. It's crazy. It is. It really is. Same building and everything. Yeah. Everything looks the same, pretty much. Although now there's fences around the school. You can't just walk up onto the lawn and go into the classrooms. I was a cheerleader. I was happy. I was part of a church singing group. I had great friends. I started modeling. Like the first day of high school, a photographer who had had permission from the school to be there asked if he could take my picture. I said, yes. That turned into, I didn't realize it at the time, but he was shooting a layout for Harper's Bazaar magazine. So they asked me to be in Harper's Bazaar magazine. So that got me started. You know, as a teenager, your mom agrees that you can go off and model in Europe. Yeah. And she came with me because, you know, I was 15. But back in those days, I had an agency in LA. And in the summer times, they wanted their models to go over to Milan and get a portfolio together and get some experience working. And that's what I did. I'll never forget because you remember the things that you wear. I was wearing like a little red and white checked gingham suit that my mom made me. Like little pockets here. I look like Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm, literally. It was so sweet. And, you know, in some ways, you're going into the lion's den. Because all the Italian playboys would just hover and vulture like around the lobby to the hotel. Like, who's coming down today? And it's like Rita's Fresh Meat. Right off the horse. You did feel that. Right. Right off the horse. And I, you know, had my mom with me. So they're like, oh, not her. Okay, fine. But I do feel like my parents gave me that foundation of just a foundation. Like, you can do this and we will be there. And if you ever get tired of doing it, you don't have to do it. So it was, I did have a sense of adventure in that way to be able to, like, try different things and not feel confined by anything. And at this point, were you thinking? I'm thinking I want to have a career in acting. No. Because I read, I read in, oh, man, I can't remember the periodical where you said, well, if I wasn't, if I didn't get into show business or acting, I was either going to be an athlete or a detective. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I, so I have many questions. Okay, good. Okay, good. But I'm only, I'm only going to ask a couple. First of all, what sport would you have been an athlete? And what kind of a. Detective. Oh, yeah. I like both of those. Okay. I, I would have been in track. Okay. Or skiing. I didn't play tennis as a young, you know, as a teenager, but I loved skiing and I loved track. I love being outside. I just, oh, that, I love that. And then detective, I like to get to the bottom of stuff. And so just put me in there. Like, I need to solve this crime. Were you like that with your friends? Oh, my God. Probably. I don't know. I just like, I would want to get to the bottom of like, why did they say that? Well, why did they do that? Well, what did that mean? And how does that work? And I remember someone told me a really valuable thing when I was a teenager. He was an older guy and we were having a conversation. I can't remember what the circumstances with probably a work situation. And he said, he was talking about something. And I didn't know what it was. And I said, I'm sorry, can you explain what that is? I don't know what that is. And he said to me, that is so great that you asked when you didn't know something. Because most people are too afraid to ask. You just look stupid or, you know, whatever. So I just want to get to the bottom of it. It's like, it's a form of FOMO. Like, I need to know. Yeah. Yeah. 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That's growtherapy.com slash IMO. Growtherapy.com slash IMO. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. So, at what point in your development did the acting hit? I mean, because it's like you grew up on the south side of Chicago, on 74th and Euclid. Sleeping in the back of the back. Isn't it so crazy? And then now I'm going to be on the Brady Bunch. Exactly. It's like, trust me, I was amazed too. And I so remember, I mean, I told you this. I am a Brady Bunch aficionado. She is, yes. I mean, I can name that episode in two words, you know? Exactly. And yours, which was Jan tries out for cheerleading. Marsha, Marsha tried out. Yeah, Marsha tried out. And you were Pat Conway. Conway, exactly. Oh, my God, you really remember. You were the good cheerleader. Yeah. My God. So, Greg had to choose. He had to choose between his girlfriend and his sister. And his girlfriend was a bitch. Right. She was just using Greg. Oh, she was so nasty. She was fast. Wait, were you the girlfriend? No. Oh. No. She was the Greg's solution to the problem. Yeah, she just wanted to be the cheerleader. And she thought, if I can work my boyfriend into voting for me. So, she wasn't interested in Greg. No. Until she found out that he was going to be on the judging committee. That's right. That's right. That's right. It was outrageous. That was a funny story. Mind you, she remembers this on one hour of TV a day. Yeah. That's all we could watch. Because it was like. We watched the Brady Bunch. Exactly. But we only got the Wizard of Oz once a year, too. That's right. But we remember everything. Exactly. Nowadays, people can watch everything millions of times. But you were saying that. But it was cool. I didn't expect to audition for it. But a girlfriend of mine was auditioning for it. And she. It was for the role of a cheerleader. And she didn't know how to cheer. So, she asked me if I could teach her how to do a cheer. So, I said, sure. And then she said, just come with me on the audition. And I said, okay. You know, it was great. Go to Paramount Studios. Drive through the gate. And. And you're 15 at the time? Yeah, 15. And she. We're in the waiting room. And she goes in to audition. And she comes out. And she wasn't really an actor either. But I think her mom was in the business or something. And. And we're still friends, by the way. And so, the casting person came out and said, are you here to audition? And I was like, no. Would you like to? And I'm like, okay. So, I go in. I don't get that part. But they needed a girl who actually could be a good cheerleader. And you were so good, Rita. Because I was a cheerleader. The Bears. Who's going to win? The Bears. The fact that you can still remember that. It's so good. Now, you can. You can't give me any crap about remembering plays in a game. I don't care. That's pretty good. I could teach it to you one day. Because she could do it. I know the words to it. One, two. Tell me, who are you? The Bears. Three, four. Tell me, who's going to score? The Bears. Five, six. Tell me, who's got the kick? The Bears. Seven, eight. Tell me, who's really great? The Bears. Nine, ten. Tell me, who's going to win? The Bears. Say it again. The Bears. Who's going to win? The Bears. Woo! In the pom-poms. Very well done. Very well. No, it was not. This was a precursor to my rapping, of course. I've never talked to you about worse. No! Wait. So, this is a very different kind of conversation. It's so funny. So, was that like your big break? Oh, totally. That's how I got my Screen Actors Guild card. And once you had a Screen Actors Guild card, then you could audition for commercials and other TV. It wasn't really until my 20s that I thought I was doing a play and the director of the play was like, you seem to like being on stage. Have you ever thought of getting any formal training? I'm like, what was that? I mean, I had taken an acting class, but it was like for film. I didn't know about formal training. And so, he told me about these drama schools. There was Lambda in London, RADA in London, and Juilliard in New York. So, I was like, fantastic. So, I applied to all of them. I got rejected from Juilliard, rejected from RADA, and waitlisted at Lambda. And then I just kept calling them all the time. Like, hi, have there been any people who have dropped out yet? I sure would love to, you know? So, I ended up getting in and going there because that's when I realized like, maybe this is my real job, you know? Wow. And how long was that program? That was a one-year overseas program. So, while you're acting now and you got this, at the time, job going on, right? At what point do you start thinking, boy, it sure would be nice to do music? I didn't think that. I, I tried. There were always movies or things that were coming up that had singers in them. And I was like, great, I'm going to go and do that. There was a little club out in the valley called the Palomino and it had like an open mic night. So, my girlfriends and I would go out there. We'd try to, you know, get up on stage and sing. But, I also had a part-time job as a ticket taker at the Universal Amphitheater at Universal Studios. And, I would take the tickets and then, you were allowed to watch the shows. So, this is like 74, 75, 76, somewhere around there. And, I would watch the shows and everybody came through, you know, my heroes, Joni Mitchell, Carole King, Carly Simon, James Taylor, Elton John, comedian Steve Martin, you name, Jackson Brown. They were all performing and I would sit on the stairs watching them and have, having an actual ache, like a longing, a yearning, like it's something that, someone that you love that you'll, like, they'll never look at me. They'll never see me. It was that kind of pain. Like, how do you do it? How do you get to be a musician and sing and get on stage? How do you find a band? I didn't know. Right. But, I knew who everybody was. I knew all the songwriters on the album covers, all the studios, all the musicians who played on, which albums, who sang harmonies. I knew it all. And so, when it, when it happened through Cara Deoguardi, this amazing woman who was a songwriter, she said, great, I'll write your first songs with you. And she did. Shout out to Cara Deoguardi. What I'm hearing is that you were a hustler. You were courage, courageous. You were already kind of a producer, right? You were producing your life. You were producing your situation. You were doing it all. But I know in you, and I know a lot of women and women in various businesses feel overlooked, underappreciated. And I'm just, you know, I just want you to talk a bit about that because when we talk about the arc of your growth as a woman, you know, so many women go through that period in life when they doubt what they can do even if they don't know and even in the face of them demonstrating all that they can be just like our mothers. Exactly. You know, and here we are a whole generation away having had more opportunities than our mothers but still carrying some of that. Do I really have anything to say? Exactly. Can you talk more about that? Yes. The best way to describe it is, you know, the song Michelangelo that hopefully will play a little bit of too is a lot about this process because there was this quote that I had on my bulletin board for many years and it was one from the sculptor Michelangelo and somebody had asked him and thank God somebody wrote this down but somebody had asked him how in the world do you make these incredible sculptures out of these massive chunks of marble that are just there? And he said, I see the angel in the marble and I carve until I set him free. And that to me was a perfect metaphor for having a vision for who this person is inside of you and being able to chip away at the marble of your humanity, of your woman-ness so that we can become ourselves. And that took me a long time to get there, it really did. Well, before we talk more about that, why don't we play some of Michelangelo? Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you. We've talked about it. I've talked about it on this show. It's, you know, it always amazes me how long we as women take to fully, accept, and know ourselves. How are you supposed to know all of this? You're not. But why is there that pressure that you're supposed to know all of it? Like, I really do feel like that shaping that we come into, the shaping of ourselves, you know, that's the gift. Like, I don't know when it happened, but I knew it was happening because it happened in sometimes small ways where you just thought, I'm going to say no to that. Or that doesn't work for me anymore. Or this isn't an area I want to go down anymore. And it's that idea that I could actually have a boundary about something. You know, like everybody talks about boundaries. But if you've never had them and then you start having them, people get a little, they don't like it. There's an expression that I love, which is when people pleasers stop pleasing people, people aren't pleased. Right? Rita, how did, as you were building your career and becoming the woman that you are, how did you, early in your career, how did you start thinking about family? I mean, were you someone who knew you always wanted to get married and have kids? Were you kind of devoted to your career? And, you know, did, or did you think about it at all? I thought about it, but I was engaged before I got engaged to my husband. Yeah, that's right. And if I had married that person, I would have been divorced within a year. I thought that was what you were supposed to do at a certain age. And I actually thought, because I had never really fallen in love with anyone. That I was just, I would be okay. And my mom, when I, when I told my mom that, I'm like, I don't know though, should I marry him? I'm not really in love with him. This was her generation. Don't worry, you grow to love him. And I was like, mom, that's not my generation. Like, you know, but her generation was like, is he a good man? Will he provide? Will he, there wasn't any of this, I have to be madly in love and I have to, you know, and I'm, it was just like, they thought of things differently. And my parents were married for 59 years. So whatever they figured out, they figured out. But it was, I still wanted to hold out for that falling in love thing. So when I finally met Tom and fell in love with him, that was like, oh, wow. Well, this is very, very different than what I had before. And I, that would have, marriage would not have sustained that relationship. Were you thinking about, well, what if I never have kids? I should have kids. This did the biological clock thing. Or were you thinking, look, let me find love. And if I do, I'll see where it goes. But if I don't. Yeah, it was more like that. It was more like that. Um, I did know that I wanted children, but I didn't, I didn't want to have children with, with the wrong people or person. And so, um, that definitely, you know, falling in love with someone really, really helps. And Tom had two children. So I already saw that he could be a good dad. So I was like, okay, good. That, that, that's helpful. A little example here. I really wanted to maintain being able to work and being able to keep my foot in the creative door, except for being in the dishwasher. But not the dishwasher, the washing machine. I didn't want to do that. The being, the whisk girl. Um, and then, you know, having children when you become a mom, that I just could not get over how amazing it was. I loved everything about being pregnant. I loved everything about giving birth. I loved everything about nursing a child. I loved everything about. Having a baby and raising children. And even in the really difficult times, because every kid is different, I still knew, well, we have a foundation here and this foundation, which I was trying to give to our kids was, you know, different than the foundation my parents gave me, but I wanted to give that to my children. I wanted to give that to my children, to say, like, there's always a place that you can land. And there's, we're always going to be here. We may not be here in the way you want us to be here. That might be challenging, but we're going to be here for you. But there might be some, you know, things around that. I know that I carried that around for a while, that there was this sort of bedrock stability. Right. You know, and here I was, you know, I'm married to somebody who's going into politics and I have a career myself. Right. And I'm not home and, you know, so I'm thinking, is this going to screw up my kids? And then we're in the White House and it's like, oh my God, my mother didn't do this. No. Right. Like, how do you, how do you pave that way? Right. And you were living a completely different life than your mother in the household that you raised. How did you think about that? It was hard because I, it did, I did feel. Torn and felt a little guilty if I was working or if I couldn't be in two places at one time. You know, I also, Tom was really, you know, when we got together, he had only done I think three films and I think we met on his third or fourth film. And then he, his career was really taking off and what I would have been working in, in that time. Yeah. So I was working on series television and back then if you were doing a network show, you would have to sign on for a seven year contract. And I didn't know how to do that. I didn't know how to be working on a series, having a husband who was also working all over the world, not being able to then keep the family together. And at the same time, how do I keep working? So I think. Not, not being able to really take advantage of those years when I would have probably been in a television series, probably had some effect on my career professionally. How did you keep your creative muscle flexed during that time? It wasn't very flexed at that time. It wasn't? No. It was a little flabby. Yeah. It was very flabby. And I remember feeling frustrated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This summer has been all about getting outside for me. I've been walking a ton, playing a little pickup here and there. And every single day, no matter what I'm getting into, I'm grabbing my Bombas socks. Bombas sports socks are everything. They make different styles for different activities. Whether you're running, golfing, heading to yoga or hitting the gym, I love how cushioned they are. They're exactly where you'd want it on your foot. But they still feel lightweight and breathable. Even on the hottest summer days, they somehow stay airy and help keep my feet dry. 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Join Wayfair Rewards today and get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound to Zepatide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose weight and keep it off. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zepbound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia, symptom type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you had severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes, depression, or suicidal thoughts before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor, call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lily.com. Talk about the role of friendship in this journey, and friendship among women, and friendship among your partner, and, you know. Well, say more. What the blessing is about friendship? Oh, my God. Boy, your husband, your partner, cannot supply everything that you possibly need. That's why God invented girlfriends. And that helps you guys, too. Yes, it totally does. And I think that is massive. You know, they've been, my friends have been there to celebrate. My friends have been there to get me through crises. I remember when I had cancer, and you invited me down to visit you when, you know, you were first lady. And can I say where we went? Yeah. Okay. Okay. We went to Camp David, and it was, I can't tell you the feeling, because I was maybe four weeks out of having breast cancer surgery, bilateral mastectomy, and reconstruction, and Tom had to go, he had been gone to do a movie. So, I was like, what am I doing? And you said, why don't you come down, and we'll just have a weekend. Yeah. You were like, can I come without Tom? I was like, screw Tom, you know? Yeah. But, you know, it's like, you just don't know, right? And you were so, I don't know, it made me feel so vulnerable. And it was also like, I was already in a sort of vulnerable state, just having gone through that, you know, process, but then to be there by yourself, but to feel that I wasn't alone was huge. That's what a girlfriend is. Yeah. That sets us up perfectly for our listener question. Okay, dude. It does. I'm ready. Very well done, Rita. Very well done. It's as if you know what our listener question is. And this is from Lucy. I have a close group of girlfriends I've known for years. Our kids grew up together, and now that they're all adults, I still meet up with this group of women regularly for dinner or for our book club. Recently, though, I've started to feel a lot less close to them. I've found that our conversations feel pretty surface level, and when they do go deeper, I often get frustrated with them because our politics have really drifted in recent years. I recently started a ceramics class, and I love it. I've realized I haven't actually done something for myself that's totally new to me since having kids. I've thrown myself into it, and I've also become friendly with some of the people in the studio, and it's put into perspective how toxic my friend group can be for me. Suddenly, this group of women who were truly some of my closest friends for years feel stifling to be around. My question is, do you think this is a phase that is typical with friends, and should I try to put distance with them? How? Is it normal to outgrow people at this stage? In life, or do I owe them more? Wow, that's really great. I'm supposed to answer that? Well, we will talk about it. We will discuss, but what are your thoughts? What advice would you give? It sounds like she's growing in some ways, and it sounds like she's shifting from one phase of her life to another, and doing that transition can be difficult for the individual, but also for the friend group. Because she may not feel like she's being seen as this new person in the friendship group that wants her to stay in a certain lane or bucket, right? And yet, if there are people in that group that you really, really love, and you really want to be with, and continue that relationship, maybe it's good to do more individual one-on-one stuff, together, so that you can check in with them and say, hey, I'm kind of feeling this way, and what's going on, and can we talk about this, even if it's a difficult conversation? Because I wouldn't throw out the old friends if you have so much history with each other, because every relationship is going to go through phases, but I'm a big believer about pausing, if you don't feel good or safe or whatever, not really disconnecting, or cutting people off, but just pausing and kind of saying, I'm going to take a little breather here for a minute. I think I agree with you, Rita, that, you know, things, she shouldn't feel bad that things have shifted, because it isn't unusual. Right. And it's okay. It may shift back again, you know? Yeah. You may get into some new interests, develop some other new friends, get to know them. Circle back around in five years, run into somebody in your old group, and something clicks. You know? And it's like, wow, I miss this part of you, you know? So I like what you say. Sometimes you do need to take a break. Yeah. From people. Sometimes you need to take a break from your family, you know, without cutting ties completely. But I have, that's why I always try to encourage my daughters, my nieces, nephews, young people that I know is just to stay open to people. Yeah, exactly. Because I have made, and I've said this time and time again, some of my, the most special people in my life came into it after the age of 50. Right. Wow. That's amazing. And that doesn't make the people who were there before any less special. Right. I've tried to do my best to keep blending people, you know? Yeah. You're really good at that. And it's the fun of watching people get to know everybody. And then, all the mixies don't always work. Right. You try it out and go, oh, yeah, oh, that, that wasn't good. I got to take a little salt out of that and put it over here. You know, you, you, you learn, but I get a lot of pleasure out of my friends becoming friends. Me too. I love that. Yeah. Craig, how does the male gender, because you were representing all men. I am. So there's going to be some wild generalizations. That's why he's wearing blue. He's blue for the blue. But I like both of you. you all's advice for for lucy and uh agree with every part of it the only thing that i would add is that i think for me and a lot of guys when you're when you feel that growth and that need to sort of stretch your arms and stretch your arms and legs in different direction i tend to and my friends tend to try and bring that group along a good deal of my friends now have become golfers and because of my of my life golfing was never a part of it right i mean it was back when i worked in corporate america but that was so long ago i never became a golfer and they all waste time trying to include me in golfing even though i'm not a golfer and i have to be open to vulnerability i'm sorry how do you being a golfer but how do you get included if you're not a golfer like do you just walk around with them or i can do either i can go on the golf cart i can i can drive the golf cart okay i can that's a good compromise and bring my clubs and i can play a few holes okay or i can play the whole thing or i can just be the golfer and i can be the golfer there for comedic relief you know but it's it's it's we all we it feels like we all try to keep the team a team that's kind of cool and yeah and it's kind of neat and everybody has their specialty or their lack of specialty and everybody gets a chance to be the one who's sort of spotlighted as the one to get this special treatment even though it's teasing right special treatment i don't think it would work if i said okay everybody we're going to take a watercolor class together yeah i don't think it i mean how great would that be if you could do it that way that would be a blast well i sort of had a version of that when i forced all my friends into a quarterly boot camp oh i can't remember yeah yeah that was that was that was but i think i was in a special position where i was trapped and in order to see them i was like you have to come here but maybe this is what we're gonna do you have to do the boot camp i mean i used to even think i never said any i've never said anything to you about that boot camp but i was like man that's that's rough it was hard well well that was not the version so rita came along to one of these sort of really hard health and fitness retreats off of boot camp where we you know you'd walk for four hours just so like you were walking like 17 miles you'd get almond you know it's a break why you know why well you know well rita didn't do it no i was like i was at the back of the line and the first day you know they gave everybody walkie-talkies because you're in the mountains you know they give everybody walkie-talkies and they're like if you need anything just let us know and i'm like maybe 90 minutes into the walk and i'm like hi hi it's rita uh when are we done and there were also two lines that they told you about there was the private line where rita could be talking just to the people or the party line where everybody's walkie-talkie is going on so we're all like on mile 100 and rita's like um where are the cars and it's like we're all like damn rita's going home and then she got back to the ranch and she's like hi i'm in my room can i get some tea and we're like bitch um i'm by the pool and it's going over and we're all talking about that self-care she left the hike see she's back at the ranch and she's ordering drinks that sounds like something guys would do and we guys would do that we're sucking up we're taking our we're eating the third of four almonds you know it's so true and she's like hi rita here and that's how she would start rita here it's like fucking rita i still lost weight on that and i lost inches oh my god you didn't lose your mind i did not lose my mind i did not rita was just like i'm going back wow i've never been back to that place i know i haven't gone back again either wonderful but it was still a bonding experience it was super fun we laughed about it that was and we still do and all my other friends there it's like remember rita you so um sound of a woman woman beautiful thank you i mean you make us all fall in love with um whatever you're doing because you just approach it with the right spirit thank you here thank you so much and we are grateful that you've come to share just a little bit of it with us here at i am what a joy today has been thank you so much this really has been great to talk to her all the time i'm like oh man thank you so much well we got you today yes but yeah thank you so much you so this episode of imo is brought to you by coligard a non-invasive colon cancer screening test there are certain things in life you keep meaning to get around to and for me health screenings always ended up on that list but i was surprised to learn that colon cancer is on the rise it's now the number one cancer killer for people under 50 in the u.s the good news is it's also one of the most preventable cancers which is why getting screened matters i've actually done the coligard test myself 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