Cavs & Harden Go All-In + Disastrous Summer in Denver? & Updates On Lakers' Drama

(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to the collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, what you're doing on Thursday afternoon, joining us from Los Angeles, California. Dave McMendoron. - So Brian, what's up Tim? - And that is Dave, jumping in front of me and introducing from Dallas, Texas, Pan McTan. (laughing) - Howdy, partners. - I like the backyard. - Mac10, I mean, going for the Slater vibes there. - Yeah, that's kind of crazy. - One with nature in the off season, that's something we can all strive to try to achieve. - Well, there's another guy in LA in a good mood right now and that's James Harden. 'Cause today he signed a three year, 97 million, fully guaranteed contract with the calves with a player option. God bless America. - Well, that's them. - He worked with them and it worked out well for him. - We'll talk about that aspect of it in a few minutes here, but so we had a mid August sign and trade. I'm gonna tell you, like, let's just, I just wanna be real here. Like, there's some good agent thing that has been done here. Because for Rich Paul and his colleagues at Clutch to pull off getting paid in Watson signed and traded in the middle of August with no cap space out there in a fight where the calves had to do a five team trade to execute it. Like, seriously, you can say whatever you want. You can say I'm pandering, go ahead. I don't really care if you say that, you don't know. That's pretty good work by Rich Paul and paid in Watson comes out of this pretty good considering the landscape. He gets four years and 88 million with a player option. I don't understand why everybody and their brother gets a player option these days, but that's out of the barn and down around the corner. Mick Mann, paid in Watson gets four years 88 million. The calves do all kinds of different things to get this player. There's a lot of aspects of this to go through. The calves aspect, the nuggets aspect, the clippers aspect. Let's start with the calves. I actually wanna start with my aspect. - Okay. - I had a bet with Bontems that paid in Watson were getting more than mid-level. This is significantly more than mid-level. So just as soon as the NBA League office gets done with this aspiration investigation, I'm gonna ask them to determine whether Bontems as a team employee can still pay off a bet that he made before he was hired. So there's that. But yeah, for the calves, listen man, this didn't come without a cost and the 2031 pick, okay. But the cost, as you mentioned, when you basically very accurately forecasted this deal, on the last pod is they really thinned out the depth of the roster. And I think you can kinda look at it as they need paid in Watson to come in and be an upgrade to the combined production of Max Truce, who was hurt most last year, but Max Truce and Dean Wade. Now, if he produces like he did last year, which unfortunately was cut short due to injuries, and I think this is gonna be a pretty sweet deal for them. He's obviously a young guy, extremely athletic. I think they have one of the best defensive front courts in the league now, putting him alongside Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. And then last year he had a great or really good breakout, offensive season, where he shot it almost 50% from the floor and better than 40% from the three point range, a much higher volume than he had in the past, but he got paid on a pretty small sample size of production. - Yeah, Dave, in January and February, before he got his hamstring injury, now there were other injuries being affecting the nuggets at the time, which is one of the reasons why he got the opportunity. But in January and February, Peyton Watson won on an 18 game stretch, where he started all 18 games. He averaged 36 minutes. So this is a guy who's averaged in the load in mid 20s before that. So he was getting full on starters minutes. It was probably, I don't have this looked up. He probably was averaging, we was probably one of the NBA leaders in minutes during that stretch, because the nuggets just didn't have depth and they were banged up. So he was averaged in 36 minutes in that stretch. He averaged 21 points and shot 45% from three. He always also averaged five rebounds and three assists. And so the question really is, is that 18 game stretch before he pulled his hamstring? Is that the current Peyton Watson? Is that Peyton Watson four years into his career aid? Now age 23 heading into his prime, six foot eight, excellent shop blocker for a wing? Is that the Peyton Watson? 'Cause if that's Peyton Watson, Dave, the Cavs doing a five team trade and giving away a whole bunch of players, that's a hell of a pick up. Or is Peyton Watson the guy who he was before and after that, which is a guy who's a quality piece, starter quality piece, but averages 12, 13 points and his first career shot under 40% from three. - Well, do they want him to be that guy who had those numbers for the 18 games? Because part of it as you alluded to was, because the reason nuggets had players who were also out during that stretch, so he was thrust into a larger role. But they want him to be, is a dynamic two way threat who can also be a clamp down the fender on the fender when you already have mobility and Allen patrolling down on the paint, be able to make open shots. But I mean, the ball's gonna be in Donovan Mitchell's hands and James Harden's hands. He's, I think for sure, third on that pecking order in terms of shot attempts per game. Now, obviously in transition, you wanna get him the ball. He can finish six foot eight, long, good athlete, getting through the foul line, you know, obviously those type of scenarios to get his touches and get his minutes, get his kind of numbers that way. But I think what the cab's got is just an addition of talent when, as you mentioned, they had lost some talent. And as good as Max Drewce was the first year after they acquired it from Miami, he was not really a part of their team last year. And so in this particular deal, you are giving up the future first round pick, but you're not really giving up a player that last year's team relied on. - Well, so here's the thing. So during that stretch of games, because of the injuries that Nuggets had, including, you know, Yokeuch being out, the ball was in Peyton Watson's hand. So his usage rate, in December, you know, I'm slicing the season up, but in December when he was the starter and playing 28 minutes of game, his usage rate was 17, okay? His usage rate in January, when he played all those games and all those minutes, his usage rate jumped to 27, 27. So part of the reason why he got that huge surge in output was because the Nuggets were in trouble, they put the ball in his hand and said, Peyton, you know, make some plays for us. And he did, and I'm going to float. And I'm going to say this, let's take a look at the cab's roster now because here's the thing. This trade, it looks like Max Truce a first and a second for Peyton Watson, but that's not really what the cabs did. If you look at where they were to start the off season, and they were a second apron team last year, okay? But they let Dean Wade walk in free agency. They let Keon Ellis walk in free agency. They trade Dennis Schroeder, they did two moves, basically to get off Dennis Schroeder's money. They traded for Trayman, and then they flipped Trayman for Cam Whitmore who they waved and stretched. And those, say, series of transactions got off of Schroeder's money. But still, they had to get off of Schroeder's money to enable them to sign in trade for Peyton Watson 'cause your hard capped under the first apron if you acquire a player of sign in trade. So even though those players didn't go to Denver, those players came off the cab's roster to make it happen. So really, the cabs are down. Ellis, Struce, Wade, Schroeder, okay? And the first round pick, the unprotected 30, 2031 first round pick, all of those things came off their roster. So here's what's left. Now they do have two roster spots, and I expect them to fill those roster spots. But as we sit here right now, their starting point guard is James Harden. Their backup point guard is Craig Porter, who's been a, at times, backup for them, but has been mostly a third string guard. Maybe he's gonna be really good. That's their backup point guard. Their backup three behind Peyton Watson is Mario Hizonia, who has a non-guaranteed contract who's coming over after six years playing in Europe. I don't even know if he's gonna work. And then other than that, you have Jalen Tyson and Sam Merrill. Those are like their two, three backup. So behind Don of the Mitchell and Peyton Watson, it's Sam Merrill, Mario Hizonia, Jalen Tyson. I'll throw in Tyrese Proctor, who was your second round pick in 2025, like maybe he's ready to play minutes, but I was gonna say two years ago, when the Cavs had that 60 win season, if you remember that roster that they had, okay? They had, you know, Don of the Mitchell and Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, but their backups were Ty Jerome, who got six man of the year votes. DeAndre Hunter, who I know had a bad year last year and got traded, but he got six man of the year votes. Dean Wade, who's been there, who's the starter most of last year. Keras Levert, still a key rotation player in the NBA. Sam Merrill, Isaac Coro, these, like they had like 11 or 12 players that they really could rely on. So here's their, here's their bench now, Craig Porter, Jalen Tyson, Sam Merrill, and their two backup bigs behind Evan Muldian, Jared Allen. As of today, now they have roster spots, but take a look at their free agents. It's not, it's, you know, when you do a deal that creates roster spots and you need minimums in, in July, you know, you have a choice. When you do that deal in August, you know, your choices are way down. They're backup bigs. Do you, man, do you even know who their two backup bigs are? And I'm not trying to put you on the spot. If you can tell me, Thomas Bryan is their backup center. If you know who their backup for is, by the way, I couldn't probably do this for other teams. I couldn't tell you the, the, the Mavericks too deep. Their backup for as of right now is Nick Juan Tomlin, who was on a two way to start last season. So listen, that's starting five. Hard and Mitchell Watson, Muldian Allen, like, it's pretty good. And if, if Peyton Watson, like, look, with the hardest thing to get in the NBA, is athletic two way wins, right? Like, that's hardest. I mean, the superstar's the hardest thing to acquire. But if you're trying to build it your team, that's why the, that's why the, the Knicks paid so dearly to get, uh, McHale Bridges and O.G. Annanobi, because getting those, those types of wings are hard. The calves think they got one in Watson. And they think that Jalen Tyson, who's our young rookie, can develop into a key two way way. But the calves are awfully thin, right now. Okay, now here's the second part of this deal. To allow this to happen, remember that James Harden opted out of a contract would have paid him 43 million this year. Now, that contract was not fully guaranteed. It was only guaranteed 12 million. But the truth is the calves weren't gonna cut him. He's their starting, he's their franchise point card. So if he had opted into that contract, they would have paid him the 43 million. He was getting the money, okay? So James Harden was willing to opt out of that contract and sit around all summer and basically pick up the phone whenever the calves call, calling his agents more than anything. But and say, yeah, I'll go down a little farther. I'll go down a little farther. And so as the calves made various moves, Harden not only was willing to reduce his salary, but he was willing to recruit. He from what I understand, like, I assumed out of the Mitchell was too, I haven't heard this, but he recruited Peyton Watson. He was on the, I guess at the, at the fanatics fest where you hung out dead, you had a fun couple of days there. - Yeah. - At the Javas Center. They were both there. And like at that time, you know, the calves were recruiting Watson. And Harden was with him and recruited him. And Watson is from LA, and Harden is from LA. And they had some connection there, even though they're, you know, I think 13 years apart. And so the bill came due, McMahon, the bill came due. And so James Harden gets a three year, 97 million dollar contract, all guaranteed. And the third year is a player option. - I bet you he'll pick that option up. - Well, or he'll opt out of it and do this again in a couple years. - It'll be pretty old to be opting out of it at that point, but he's turning 37 next week. Capy birthday, or leadership. - Yeah, so this is from 37, 38, 39. - This contract will take, well, I'll, I'll, I'll stop on that. - McMahon, three years, 97 million dollars for fully guaranteed for James Harden. God bless America. - Listen, man, the calves are all in on right now. And they're trying to kind of, which is a tough spot to be, you're all in on right now with real questions about your bench. And not a whole lot of ways you can go about upgrade. Aren't they hard cap now as well? - Yes, they are. - So like to upgrade the bench, even during the season is gonna be extremely difficult. I had to be able to pull that off. And you know, what kind of a combination of being all in now and trying to give yourself some long term upside. And I do think he has long term upside. You know, you mentioned the 18 game stretch. There's really a half season stretch as a starter frame. 38 games since, you know, Christian Brown got hurt and he started every game he played after that. It was 17 and a half points. He was shooting better than 50%, 44 from three, you know, decent rebounder, good defender. And I remember in the middle of that stretch, you know, when he was really rolling, they came to Dallas and I was talking to Aaron Gordon about him. And the thing that really surprised people was like, 'cause you always said about Watson like, hey, if he can just become a decent three-point shooter, he's gonna be a really nice player. And he had proven that. And then you saw him doing all the stuff off the dribble. It's like, whoa, you didn't know we could do that. Well, listen, with the Cavs depth at ball handler, you know, we'll hear from Kenny Ackinson and Kobe Aldman in the coming days. The Cavs may need him to do some of that. - I mean, he'll be their secondary ball handler and line up when one of their guards is sitting. I would think a lot of times, but I remember I was talking to Aaron Gordon. He said, dude, we see this stuff when we play pickup and things like that. We've seen him for a while. He said, he reminds me of the young Paul George. Now, I think that might be hyperbole there. You know, young Paul George is awfully good, but his point was, he looked at Watson as a really dynamic, athletic, versatile 68-wing. And you know, if that's what the Cavs are getting, then honestly, the deals, it's not crazy money. 22 million is not, and today's NBA is not a crazy number. - Well, here's the thing, we're starting money. Look, you can talk to different people, you give you different opinions. He's 23 years old. So they're signing him for ages 23 to 26. Basically, he's 23, 24, 25 years, whatever. I feel okay about signing a player to that kind of a deal when they're in their mid-20s. - Yeah. - I'm not, you know, you can find people that don't like paying them 22 a year. If that's when you're gonna gamble. - Including the nuggets, apparently. - Yeah, well, we'll talk about the nuggets in a minute. You know, you guys know how I feel. When a contract gets signed, I asked a question, can this contract be traded? I've talked to executives today who have said, I don't like that contract, but I've also talked to executives who've said, he's 23 years old. That's probably gonna age pretty well. If he was 33 years old, I wouldn't like it, but 23 years old, I like it. So I don't think they could trade it for huge value this afternoon. I'm not of the concerns I have about this Cavs maneuver. I'm concerned that they have no depth 'cause they've hollowed out their depth to do this. I'm concerned that they now have no tradable first. So when they need to add to their depth, that they're hard capped and they have nothing to add to the team. Of the things I'm concerned about with Cleveland, whether Watson is gonna be this type of player, whether they can fill out their roster properly, the level of contract is not at the top right now. Sorry. - I do think we should discuss hard and just a little bit more here. And Sean's had a reporting in his story that he is now gonna become the fourth player in league history to make over half a billion dollars in salary. And obviously the other three are the Olympic teammates and 24 and LeBron, Kevin Durant, and Steph Curry. And it's just kind of a fascinating look at James Harden's career to step back. Obviously the MVP, the trip to the finals with the Thunder. But to be able to have that, this career earnings is part of what he's able to accomplish in the league. Like probably somewhat underrated in terms of what he's done in the league. - Right, but when you stack him up against those other three guys, like there's one pretty obvious glaring omission from his resume. - And his final trip was as a six man. He's not got a team to the finals as a lead guy or even as a starter and obviously no championship. So, I mean, he's a no-brainer hall of famer. But when you discuss and legacy to me is an overused word. But when you discuss Harden's legacy, unfortunately you get to the playoff failures pretty quickly. - Let me just say this. So, we talked about agenting, you know, and earlier this summer, just the recap, like I was very willing to praise Aaron Mints and CAA for how they handled. I mean, Aaron Mints and CAA getting Trey Young taken care of, starting with the trade out of Atlanta and getting Walker Kessar taken care of. - Good run. - Great stuff. Rich Paul, I just said, paid Watson. Now I'm going to shout out Mike Silverman and Detroit Payne, who are Harden's agents. Last year, like I don't remember the exact date, don't hold me this date, but you know, there was some point in December, January, where the Clippers decided they were pulling the plug. You know, they got off to that bad start and then they got hot, but they didn't believe in the team. Obviously they traded a bit of Zubach, they obviously traded Harden and then eventually, they traded Kauai if that ever actually goes through. But Harden had this like team option, or like it was a player option, but it was only, you know, 12 million or 13 million guaranteed. So he's sitting there, he knows he's about to be traded and his future contracts were in a shirt. And that trade to Cleveland was manufactured by the agents. The agents went out and found the deal. Now the cabs liked him and, you know, we're watching the situation too. So they go out just like the deal to Washington was partially. executed by CAA, okay? And so just like, you know, you talk about power and the influence of power in the NBA, like, yeah, the two teams have to do it. There's all kinds of relationships that matter in trades. You know, for example, the calves do this deal where trained man passes through their hands to Washington. The part of the reason the trained man is now in Washington is because Will Dawkins, the GM, drafted him when he was in Oklahoma City. So there's all these things that happen, right? But they get hardened and to a spot where they're willing to pay him. And if you would told me when the clipperers were pulling the plug on last season and about to trade harden away, that harden was going to end up in a three or a hundred million dollar deal, all guaranteed, the following summer, I would have told you you were nuts. Hardin's a pretty good business man himself. Agreed. Well, yeah. Well, he had to play well. He played well in Cleveland. He created a relationship with head coach Kenny Ackinson. And he created a relationship with the organization. And like, how did he feel about moving from his hometown of LA to Cleveland? I don't know how I really felt, but you'd never saw it show up in his attitude or his performance on the court. Macden, you were a big basketball fan growing up. Who was your favorite agent as a kid? Well, that's why we talk about what are we doing on a podcast? Like, that's the point. David talk, baby. Syracuse a lot. Let's go. Let's go. Let's do it. Let's do it back. Syracuse and MJ. Come on, let's go. Oh, Lord. I walked right into a Syracuse reference. That's right. Yeah. Well, these guys are Michigan guys, Silverman and Payne. So I don't really want to give too much credit. More hoop collective podcast after this. All right. Anyway, let's move on, McMahon to the nuggets part of this. So here's the thing. The nuggets from what I understand offered Watson around four years and 70 million. I was reported elsewhere, but I checked on it. I'm not sure it was at 70 million. It might have been a hair under. And they offered him that deal before called 17 a year. Okay. They offered that deal before the thunder put them to the test with Spencer Jones on that six million dollar a year deal. And here's the thing. From what I am told, the nuggets had options to trade Cam Johnson and get them off their books. There were teams that were willing to do that where they would have wouldn't have been penal to them that they could have moved Cam Johnson. I'm not sure that they could have moved Christian Brown for value. Brown had it was injured all last year, has a hundred million dollar contract that's just starting. They probably could have traded them, but not for actual like one of the things they do, but they could have traded Cam Johnson and they could have not matched on Spencer Jones. Okay. They made the decision to keep those two guys. And not that Jones and Watson, exact apples to apples because obviously one 16 million and one's 20 million. But they had options on their plate just like the thunder. Okay. If the thunder had wanted to keep Lou dore, there were options that existed for them to do that. Okay. I know that the thunder gave this Valentine to Lou out the door and all this stuff. But at the end of the day, the thunder chose a different path than Lou dore. Obviously the nuggets are now in the second apron. They were not going to be able to keep this entire team together. Okay. They I think the here's the nuance. Were they willing to keep Peyton Watson? Yes. That's why they offered him a multi year contract for 17-ish million dollars a year. But there was a threshold in where they preferred the Cam Johnson Spencer Jones duo and Brown. I'll put that in there too. But I don't think Brown was really moving this summer. And they chose that pathway. Well, so make a bet what you will. Let's talk about the pathway. They chose last summer. You know, if you want to talk about what's happened to the nuggets are asked, you got to go back to really last fall. And that's when Christian Brown got a five year 125 million dollar extension. And they couldn't come to an agreement with Peyton Watson, who at the time wanted like mid-level money, wanted like 14 million a year. And the nuggets wouldn't go a dollar over 10 million was my understanding. Look, hindsight's 2020. They had to do all over again. They had to give him Peyton Watson's 14 million and waited on Christian Brown and you know, been in discussions with him and they'd probably been able to keep them both. But that's not the way that things played out. Well, it had been Christian Brown who was in a restricted free agent quagmire. It might have been, it might have been deemed that one of them was going to be gone anyway. Right. And you know, the Spencer Jones thing was a tricky little curve ball thrown by Sam Presti that added to it. You know, there, there was all this noise about the nuggets are willing to keep everybody pay everybody, you know, pay the whatever luxury tax bill. Even after losing Peyton Watson, who was, you know, one of their five best players, Tim Hardaway, who was the sixth man of the year, can't even have to losing those two guys from last year's roster. They have a 75 million dollar tax bill that's staring them in the face. And they're over the second apron. To get bounced in the first round and get worse. And by the way, they got bounced in the first round by a really wounded Tim Bull's team. Remember, I ain't got hurt in that series. Dante Deepen Chinzo unfortunately went down for within Achilles. By the way, Peyton Watson did not play in that series. And, you know, there were some folks with a nugget who kind of look at that situation sideways, saying he's putting business above the team right now. I didn't see the MRIs. I couldn't tell you whether that's true or not. But this is, this is a bad, bad summer for the Denver Nuggets man. They're really expensive. Well, and don't forget that you'll get you did not extend whatever. And where you want to spend, spend that. Yeah. And look, everything Joker has said, every indication from him is he is not ever going to consider leaving Denver as long as he's going to be a uniform. You speak Serbian Tim. I don't. But I haven't heard him say it in English. Yeah. That's all I'm saying. Sure. Ah, no, he said it in English. He said, okay. Not not this summer. But right. Here's the thing though, not that stuff is binding and their damn sure are going to be teams that are hoping that he either changes his mind or, you know, call what you want. And there's a ton of pressure on the nuggets. There's pressure on the front office. There's pressure on the coaching staff. There's pressure on ownership. And that's regardless of Joker's contractual situation, you have one of the greatest players of all time who took you to the top of the mountain. And you are in serious danger of essentially wasting the rest of his career. I think the question that you had asked though is we know how great he is. And of course, every superstar, as we've seen Brian and I in particular covering LeBron, if you're that great, the pursuit is to try to add much talent around you because it just opens up your window that much longer and that much wider. However, at what point do we say that they've done everything they can to feel the team around and to the point where they're in the second apron. And this could become a Milwaukee situation, where you just have a finite amount of time in order to have enough resources to put around a player like that. Or I'll give you another example. It'd become the Dirk situation where even if Joker stays, he's staying and it's awesome. It's a one franchise legend. He's loyal, but he then have a chance to compete for championship for the rest of his prime and it was twilight. And not only have they gone in the second apron and done all these things, this pic that they got from Cleveland is now the only tradable pic that they have. And by the way, do you know who owns their 27 and 29 picks? You two separate deals. I'll give you one guess. Okay. See, I think. Of course. There you go. Right. Well, by the way, the reason they had no tradable first was because they trade it. So they were cutting payroll last year. So in the transaction they made so so Cam Johnson makes 23 million this year. Okay. And that's that, you know, that's a factor that what, you know, that's essentially what probably is slightly less, probably slightly more than Watson, but essentially, that's the same salary slot. But but Michael Porter Jr., who they traded for Cam Johnson, he makes 40 million this year. Yeah. And the differential in those two salaries was one of the reasons, one of the primary reasons that Denver included a first round pick to Brooklyn as part of that deal. So, you know, that was a factor. Yeah. And it's tough when you're a team that should be continuing, wants to be continuing and you're having to give a pick a pick to get off money. By the way, speaking of Yokech, as we speak, Yokech is playing a friendly with the Serbian national team in Belgrade against team France. They're pretty high profile friendly. Yeah. So they're so the windows in here coming up in a week or so, the windows to qualify for the for the World Cup next summer in Qatar are happening. And so some high profile players are playing for their teams because it's hard to qualify out of Europe and I'll start into a scout who was at the game and Rudy Gobert is playing and alongside Victor and Victor was by the way named French national team captain captain, which isn't a surprise, but you know there's some older guys on that like Evan Fornier is on the team and you know there's some guys who have won real medals and real stuff for the French, but the Mimis won a real medal for the French silver. That's right. By the way, so anyway, I was talking to a scout and he told me not that this should be a surprise, McMahon, but he told me that Rudy Gobert looks in spectacular condition. I mean, Rudy, one thing you can criticize him all you want. One thing the guy does is keeps himself in phenomenal shape. Yeah. It's actually half time. And also the scout that I'm texting with told me that Yoke was in good shape as well. And it's a one point game at half. I'd like to go ahead. Hey, Joker better being good shape is playing 47 minutes game. Yeah. Actually, the one rotation player they brought in this year is Marvin Bagley, the third who, you know, he can he can score off the bench, but he's a journey man. The Cavs need another big man and Kevin Love is out there, and that's a guy to keep an eye on for Cleveland. They I think the Cavs would love to have Marvin Bagley on. So they should have tried to get a try try try try to try to get him in that deal. Real quick on the wolves as an aside, watch the wolves in the next couple days. Because now that some of these some of these, well, here's the thing one, there's been some reporting. I don't know who to give credit to, but I think there's a possibility of DeMar de Rosen signing with theme nuggets. Yeah, Haines Haines was about Chris Haines. I saw that. You know, now that this is happening, some other things are falling into place. So what my favorite topic, Jonathan Kominga, I mean, the wolves. Listen, he's if he's going to play it for the minimum and he he absolutely should go to Minnesota because he can walk into probably a starting job at the fore. Right. So it's still open. There's still a window there, Dave, for the Lakers to do a Kominga sign and trade using Jaden Hardy. But my thing on the whole Jonathan Kominga sign and trade thing is it for the for the hawks to do a sign and trade, they're going to probably end up in the tax. Unless you can ship someone to a third team, less to be paid. And I've just been very doubtful that unless the hawks are in love with the situation that they're going to end up, you know, signing and trading Kominga. The other thing with Kominga is a sign and trade has to be three years. Doesn't have to be fully guaranteed, but it can't be player options. There'll be team options. And so if Kominga can't get a contract number that he likes in the first year, even if it's a more money. This is one thing that Lakers fans, you know, the Lakers fans have been sort of putting Kominga on their team in their head. And look, maybe it does get done, but Kominga, he doesn't, he wouldn't control his contract. And that first year salary, even if it's higher, would be less than he thinks his value is right or wrong. So if the Timberwolves, now that these other doors are closing, if the Timberwolves can close that deal, McMahon and Land Jonathan Kominga, that would be not that, you know, you guys know how I feel about to Kominga. I think he's a highly talented flood player. Are you representing Kominga now? If Kominga ends up, well, shout out his agent now, too, because we've already gone through the roster to everybody else. Yeah. I appreciate you. Like I said, I, I an, I an inviting scorn and I don't even have to invite it with Dave. Dave will just give it. We'll just dole it out. I am inviting scorn talk about the agent thing. I agree. But this is, you know, my job is to watch the league and talk about it. I'm seeing agent thing. Can I ask you a question, Brian? All right. In my interrupting. Okay. So for Kominga, obviously, this decision will bring forth a salary for 2627. But to me, it's more about the next five years beyond that, right? Well, what are you going to be in this league? In order to achieve that, what does he need? Opportunity. Opportunity touches, right? He wanted out of, he wanted out of Golden State because there weren't enough touches, the Lakers go willing to let change every other day. Sure. But that was a big part of it was not getting the touches. The Lakers part of ways with LeBron James. And part of that equation was, well, now the ball is, it's clearly through LeBron James. Is that the best situation for him to then set up himself for the next five years? I don't know. I feel like it could be a similar situation where he finds himself is, where's the opportunity? Well, and again, in Minnesota, there's a clear void at the fore that you can slide a minute to start and line up between Jay McDaniel's and Rudy Gobert with a mellow ball and a hand in the back court. And it's a pretty defined like, hey, we need you in this role. And if you're going to sign a prove it contract, which it would have to be, obviously, then okay, let me prove myself as a guy who's going to be playing 30 plus minutes per game, you know, 14 that's probably going to play fast and, and, you know, be a fun team, be a team, it's going to be a playoff team. And the role wouldn't, it's not as clear with the Lakers. Lucas more ball dominant than an aunt or a mellow, but more so it's just like, you know, they sign Mamu and, you know, it's just a little bit more crowded. So again, I just, you know, I'm not the highest kind of world on Camingo, but if Minnesota can get him for the minimum, I think that's a deal that makes a sense for both sides. When you talk about, I had an agent tell me something very funny. I would never quote him. The thing about it is, is that it's very, it can be dangerous for a player whenever he takes the minimum because he sends the salary, or even if it's not the minimum of it, it's vastly below his market because it ends up being sort of a hole you have to dig yourself out of. And so you hear agents say, I can't let my player take the minimum, you know, even if it makes sense. So that's something that Camingo's got to do, but I was talking to this agent. He was saying, it's like, you got to be careful taking the minimum, especially if you're in your 20s. And I was like, well, you know, there are examples of players who have taken the minimum when they, when their market has been low, and then they've rebuilt their value. I'll give you a recent example, which is Kelle Ubrei. I thought you're going to say Gary Trent. Well, that's what the guy said. The guy, the eight, we, you dropped the thing. He's like, yeah, look at Gary Trent. Which, um, where is that on the NBA's investigation? I told you, uh, I just determined they have to pay the contract. No, I know, but, well, I know it's funny. But I'm saying on the NBA's, um, process of, you know, they're, they're, you know, they're investigating Kauai. They're, they're trying to deal with, um, you know, the Laker situation, which we'll talk about in a second. They're doing when trying to do expansion. They're trying to get out of bontoms is going to pay off his beds. Trying to do trying to do NBA Europe, you know, the Kauai trade, like, you know, okay, if the Kauai gets traded or whatever, that, I mean, that's all part aspiration. Where is the Gary Trent? Like, um, you know, where's the Gary Trent investigation? They're, they're, their marriage was talking about it because they're hoping people forget it. Because like, look, the bucks on TV for like, I think the bucks on TV for the first half of a game in February. That's it. You know, you know what, you know, it was fascinating. And I mean, um, uh, look like, uh, it is what it is. But, um, the, the, the, when the TV deal market, when the TV schedule came out, that, um, Zion Williamson and Pelican's when he had two games, you know, I mean, one, you can't count on being on the phone. No, I know. I'm just, they're not doing good. They're sizing it. I'm just saying, you know, when Zion's on the floor, he's still exciting. But if I can't bank, I'm being there, and there's, you know, like, there's just not a, the buzz from him has been gone for a long time. Hey, can we go back a little bit, though? Can we discuss the potential fit of deros and with the nuggets? Because I think it's honestly pretty clunky. Well, I mean, I get need space. And, by the way, this is a classic case, you know, deros and is, you know, going to be moving into a minimum zone. Um, but anyway, go ahead. In his late thirties. Um, many people moving into a bench for the first time in his career, which honestly is the role that I thought would be best suit him for a while. Um, but he would, you know, he decided he wanted to be a number one or number two option. And I get it. Like, they need been scoring. They need a guy who can prop up the offense and give it some kind of life in the 14 minutes or so that Joker's sitting. But I don't think you can play derosen with Joker because derosen needs the ball. He doesn't space it. He's not a cutter. He doesn't do the things you, any of the things you need to really thrive off of Joker. And then that duo defensively stinks worse than morning breath after 12 pack of cores light. Like my god. So I'm just saying, like, I get it. Like, it's not exactly. There's not just a ton of guys sitting out on the market. But like the idea that derosen would, would salvage the summer for the nuggets. I don't think so, man. Well, I don't think it would salvage it. But, you know, I would, I would be interested to watch the two man game because they're both very effective. Um, you know, I don't think derosen. I don't think the ball and he gets the line. Doesn't mean we're lots of balls. I don't know. I mean, he loves getting to that kind of mid-range mid-post area and operating out there. And a lot of times the nuggets run through. Well, he's, he hasn't moved all the balls. He's changed. Jay Reddiker, Rip Hamilton, and he's not running floppy, but I'm just saying, like Dave said, he, you know, he will position, you know, he gets into position. Yeah. Off the dribble. Well, that's. Well, okay. So, well, I mean, do we just say this? I don't want to gloss over the Clippers because while the Clippers are dealing with a bunch of other things, I think it was nice business to get Max Trues for a second round pick. So they, you know, they traded Collins, senior moment, John Collins to the, the pistons, which was a whole nother move that I, the pistons not signed to buy a Saras and taking on John Collins. I don't know. Anyway, they got a $17 million trade exception for that. And they took on Johnny Broom in a deal to move off to help, uh, help. They just called well pope and up and with the six years. Right. So they did a roster spot move for the six years. So they take that second round pick that they just got for taking a roster spot and the trade exception for John Collins and then they use that to acquire Max Trues. Look, the Clippers have other challenges. And they were actually at one time this year deemed a, a possible, a spot for Peyton Watson. So they don't get paid in Watson, but they get in Struce, you know, he's 30 years old, still very much in his prime and, you know, would be in a contract year and we'll compete at both ends. I actually thought it was, I had one executive tell me the, the team that I like business the most out of this was the Clippers. Yeah. I mean, he's a solid, he's a solid rotation player. You know, hopefully he can be healthy this year, solid rotation player for a team that there, there's no benefit. The Clippers being bad. Guess who owns their pick this year? I heard. You know, and they took an actual trade exception and turned it into, you know, a guy who might be human trade exception, he's an expired in contract or there could be value in that. You know, what's the trade deadline approaches? Yeah. All right. Let's move on to the Lakers. Dave, you've done a lot of reporting. You should be taking it easy in August. I feel bad for you. I appreciate that. The sentiment. So, there's a lot out there right now, you know, there's, I want to slice. There's three different things with the Lakers right now. One is the fact, obviously, that Josh Kushner and Bob Iger are in the process of buying majority control of the team, okay? That is unaffected by parts two and three that we are going to discuss here in a second. And that is what is most important for the NBA and the Lakers organization is that there is going to be a change in controlling owner. I honestly don't fully understand what the contractual obligation of keeping Jeanne Bus as the governor is, but the one thing I know about the NBA is that there's one controlling owner. Now, those, you can come to an agreement that there's a rotation or whatever, but there's one controlling owner. And my understanding is that's going to be Josh Kushner. Josh Kushner is going to be the controlling owner. Now, Bob Iger's, is that contrary to anything that you've heard, Dave? Josh Kushner lives in Miami, works in New York, has a place in Malibu. Bob Iger's, Bob Iger's, Bob Iger's, probably residents is in Brentwood. I mean, I'm not saying Bob Iger will be in the office, but Kushner will have the largest financial state. He'll have the largest share. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, yeah. Of course, I've heard that. I don't know. We're talking more about you. Yeah. Here's a thing. No matter what anybody wants to say, no matter what anybody wants to announce, like Mark Cuban announced when he was selling the Mavericks. One of the immutable rules of the NBA is one individual is ultimately the face of the team. Whether or not they want to be the day-to-day operations person, whether or not they want to be the public face of the team or whatever, but that individual typically is the person who has the most money. It's not always the person has the most money in, but the buck stops with one person ultimately. And regardless of what happens with the bus family, Mark Walter owns 73% of the Lakers. Is that right? Or something like that? It's slightly higher than that. Yeah. The chair is on process to transfer to Kushner and Iager's group and that's, you know, assuming no hiccups, that's going to happen. Okay. That's silo one. All right. And how they had decided to move forward with the Lakers is a big giant story in the NBA and will be something we've watched very closely. Now Dave, part two, which is the bus family drama, which I know is a couple of days old now, but you have done a lot of reporting on this and have lived it for decades. I have some things I want to say, but I'll wait for you to follow you. Well, I love this line that someone told me yesterday. It was, if somehow, Genie Bus gets through this current fiasco and still remains the acting governor, Adam Streisand deserves the next statue outside of Crypto.com. We can't run into our plaza because this is mired in muck and red tape and quite frankly, the logical side of things. When you consider that in 2025, when the bus family agreed to sell their steak to Walter, sources tell me there was a provision agreed to by all the siblings called a tag along the provision. If Walter sells it at any point, we can roll in our shares to that sale at the new valuation. Now, of course, Genie Bus or any other siblings could have foresaw that it only being a 10-month ownership period for more Walter. But that's what it turned out to be. Genie Bus's lawyer, Streisand, is contending that back in 2017, when there was another round of family drama, it was determined by the court that if the bus siblings were to sell it at any point, three trustees out of the six would have to sign off on it. Genie Bus, who used to run the Lakers, youth foundation, Joey Bus, who was instrumental with the Lakers, G league team over the years. And Genie would be the three trustees. However, in the eight years since that court agreement, not only did they agree to the tag along provision, but Genie Bus has ousted two of those trustees from the organization in Genie and Joey, so if this ever goes in front of a judge, the judge would have all this information to consider and weigh and meet out. And at the end of the day, it still seems somewhat implausible to me that the conclusion wouldn't be that five, six, the majority, vast majority wants to sell this thing. And I'm not going to be the judge just to step in front of that sale. We also are not legal specialists, but certainly that. And look, the legal argument, like, I went to college for eight years, but I sure as a lawyer, I don't like whatever man. But just the common sense argument here, like I thought the statement that that shoms got from the bus five, which is going to be the most, like, remember the Hamptons five, now we've got the bus five, the bus five, but yeah, but the bus five statement ended with it is time to use this opportunity to move on and exit gracefully while we still can. Now you can argue whether they still can, but like it is damn sure time to move on. Well, that's one thing that Genie has going to have to weigh here about whether what she wants her role to be going forward. And that's something that's a conversation that can be with Bob Eiger and Josh Kushner. Yeah. The NBA succession show needs to end, like, you know, shows finale. What's amazing is there's been two shows about the bus family in the last five years, the HBO show and then the Netflix show, which is the bike to the Genie bus story. And neither of them are going to be the best one, which is going to be about this. But let me ask you this, if you're Josh Kushner and Bob, Bob, I know Eiger said, you know, we say, yeah, yeah, we welcome, Jean, love it. But he left a pretty wide, uh, yeah, middle lane of wiggle room with less things changed. Why, why would they want her still there? I just, here's just a mess. Here's the thing. At the end of the day, this is very basic, but very important. The difference between a year ago and now is that a year ago, the bus family was the majority shareholder. And now they're not. Okay, the deal that Mark Walter made with the bus families with Genie. He had to make that deal because they were the ones deciding the control share. That's right. Now, they are not. Okay. So one of the, we know, one of the immutable facts I talked about with, um, with the, you know, NBA ownership is there's one control owner. Another immutable facts is if you're a minority owner, you are just that you are to be seen and not hurt. Now, Genie worked out this deal and it was an incredible deal for her. But at the end of the day, if you are a minority shareholder, you get good tickets and that's just the truth. Okay. Um, so, um, uh, I have, I know a guy who, um, I don't know if you know what, I don't know if who is a minor, it is a very small owner of an MBA team. It's a sliver of a team. And he will call me and ask me, or I shouldn't say he doesn't have my number, he will message me and ask me what his team is doing because he's 100% put in the dark. - What Cuban? - Well, I, to this day don't understand, you know, Mark Cuban, who's one of the most forward thinkers in the league for the last 20 years, how he was, how is, as you pointed out, was so wild. - Brian also said he's a small owner, Mark's probably like six feet tall. So, gotta be. - Anyway, but like, let me ask you this. - Okay, go on. - So that's one thing. Is it, this is now a, it's a significant share of the team. You know, 18% of the lakers is a ton of money. And divided by six is like 330 some on a million a piece. - Right, okay. Secondly, Adam Streisand, her attorney, is an excellent attorney. I do not wanna go ever go against him in a court of law. He has successfully argued for Genie in the past and his interpretation of their family trust, which he is obviously an expert in, has delivered a winning argument, okay? And his interpretation of this, and I'm not gonna get into the chapter in verse of it because I'm not an expert, but his interpretation of this might end up being correct in front of a judge and they may win. But here's what I know, okay, actions over words. What I know is this, when it came time to sell the lakers to Mark Walters group, it wasn't Genie Bus who made the decision. She had to get a vote, okay? And here's time to sell it again. It's not gonna, well, I'm not gonna, if it's pretty tough numbers. - Right, but last year, she made this maneuver with her brothers, which broke some of her family's hearts and ruined, but Baxter Holmes did a story about all this that was excellent, I think, back in January, February. But she had to have the votes a year ago to sell, okay? If the vote was needed a year ago to sell, why would the vote not be needed now? But I'm gonna step out of that minutiae and just say that this is a fight over 18% of the lakers. The other 70% which is the control share is gonna move on. And even though Genie was the governor, Genie was not deciding whether to sign LeBron James or not. I mean, she may have been in the room, but that was being decided by Mark Walters. So I think those are, you have any problem with what I just said, year of you, are you think I'm off? - No, I'm good, that all tracks. - All right, the third slice of this is Mark Walters personal situation, which doesn't really matter that much to the NBA anymore because he's about to exit. - It's embarrassing. - Stage left. But it is a problematic situation as you look. And there's a whole bunch of, so he has been under investigation for almost a year and it became public that he was under investigation about six-ish weeks ago, maybe eight. I'm not sure, sometime this summer. - In July, yeah. - And once that happened, a whole bunch of media and also like people who have their own, you know, just like in basketball, there's a bunch of people like us who are reporters, who have, you know, do video podcasts or whatever, or people on sub-stack. All those people descended onto all the legal filings of all of Mark Walters insurance companies. And every day, there is more and more stuff coming out about the financial engineering that is going on. I remember when I was a teenager, my dad was a middle manager at a really big company. And I had a friend who went to the Ivy League when Twitch and Ivy League school. And when I was like 19 or 20 years old, I came home and my friend came and my dad was sitting there and he goes, hey, oh, what are you studying there? And he goes, I'm studying financial engineering. This was in 1998, okay. I'm studying financial engineering. Oh, okay, cool. And he leaves and my dad goes, you know, my dad was, you know, in his mid-40s, you know. And he's like financial engineering. Like the engineers sit at this side of the company and the financial guys sit at that side of the company. They don't talk to each other. You know, we were going into a new era with financial engineering. And if you, if you spent any time reading about Mark Walter's stuff, this is just one giant piece of financial engineering. But I do have-- - Or some I call the shell game. - Storytime. - Some I call the shell game, right? Yeah, okay. - Yes, but it's financial engineering. Dead definition. - That's a nice way to put it. - All right, so here's my story time. Brought to you by SoFi. Get your money, right? - More Whoop Collective Podcast after this. (upbeat music) - When the Walter sale-- When the Walter sale closed last year, was it earlier this year, Dave? When did it actually close? - It was October of 2025. - Okay. So I started talking and writing about how Abu Dhabi Moodabala, which is the sovereign wealth fund of Abu Dhabi. You guys know I've been Abu Dhabi a number of times, del relationships and some of their government offices. And have written and reported a lot about their investments in American sports and the NBA. Abu Dhabi had given 10 billion dollars, committed 10 billion dollars to Mark Walters fund, which is called TWC Global. TWG Global, I'm sorry. And not only that, but like Abu Dhabi, as you can imagine, being, you know, and now they're in the middle of, dealing with the conflict in the Middle East, which is a whole, their whole situation has changed. But when they make an investment in something, they, you know, they often set the terms because of how much money they have. And they did something when they made their partnership with Mark Walter that was very unusual. They were investing 10 billion dollars in Mark Walters company, and they were allowing Mark Walter to in return buy a percentage of their sovereign wealth fund. This had only happened one other time, but the point of all of that is that they believed so much in him that this, you know, super elite financial operation said, not only do we want to invest in you, we want you to be our partner in our operation. So just a year ago, or a year and a half ago, the respect level that Mark Walter had was immense. But here's the story that comes to this, what I'm going to tell. I was talking about this investment that Abu Dhabi made in Mark Walters fund, and then Mark Walters fund then buying the Lakers. And I got a call from someone attached to Mark Walter, and they said, please stop connecting Abu Dhabi with Mark Walters purchase of the Lakers. And I said, why? Abu Dhabi gave $10 billion, and then, and then a couple of months later, that same fund, TWG, bought the Lakers. And that's probably coincidence. Like Balmer giving all that money to that. So, hey, listen, if I'm wrong, I want to be correct, you know? I said, why? And this person said, because Mark Walter bought the Lakers with his own money. And I said, okay, I said, please don't take offense to this. Because, you know, it was bought for a $10 billion valuation, but it wasn't really actually $10 billion. First off, he, he and his group are 75% versus, right? Not even that, because he and his group already own 27%. That's right. They were buying about 50%. So, they needed like five to six billion dollars. And I said, please don't take offense to what I'm about to say. Did Mark Walter personally have $6 billion? Because I knew that he ran an insurance company that had billions under management, but that doesn't mean, you know, you have the money yourself. And I kind of got laughed at, yes, absolutely, of course. And so, I was just saying, like the common sense is, where did that, I was just like, well, so by the way, I stopped saying it. I was like, okay, if I was wrong, I won't. Even though it was public information that Abu Dhabi invested, and then when the Lakers, the sale was announced publicly, it said TWG, it was like right there. I was like, all right, okay, I won't connect him anymore, but I didn't understand how he, how he would have that kind of money. If he already owned the Dodgers and he already owned Chelsea, and he already owned the Sparks and he already had this, he would also have that much money. It just didn't make sense to me. And so anyway, I would just say that this whole thing is one giant, is one giant financial quagmire. - Right, have you called that guy back in the last two weeks? I wouldn't be relishing that phone call. Like, hey, let's talk about that. - I'm not sure. I still am not sure what's true. I just know that, you know, like I am, like I know what Warren Buffett says. By the way, Warren Buffett has bought and invested in a lot of insurance companies, and he would say that insurance is profitable, but it's not the kind of profitable that would allow you to be buying all these sports teams. But I know one thing that's true, the sooner they can get Mark Walter and Jeannie Bus, the hell out of the building, the better. - Well, anyway. - The lesson here though, sorry, I don't know, I hope I'm not stepping on your final point. Your grand finale, Brian. But the lesson here is that the league needs to do a better job of vetting all of these major partners that are coming into it. Whether that be a team sponsorship from aspiration with the Clippers, whether that be the board of governors voting on Mark Walter's acquisition of the prize franchise, the crown jewel of your league, because, hey, guess what, the Wall Street Journal reported that in September of last year, 2025, Mark Walter had devices seized from him as part of the Fed's investigation. In October, the NBA board of governors said, yep, put the red stamp on it, he's new to the new Lakers owner. I think the NBA needs more resources in their vetting process. - Well, but let me just say this, let me just say this, Abu Dhabi doesn't mess around. And Abu Dhabi invested with him and they didn't know. - Yeah. - Well, and here's the other thing I'm gonna say. Is there a thing I'm gonna say? Again, assume this is reported by the Wall Street Journal. I assume this is correct. They didn't find out about this, potential financial engineering issues, because they did it within investigation. It was a whistleblower. Somebody came to them and said, hey, this is going on. So I think there's only so much the NBA can do. What Mark Walter did was he said, here's my account with $6 billion in it. There it is right there. And the NBA is like, is this actual money from $6 billion? Yes. And the NBA is like, okay, he's got the money, he's also owns the Dodgers and owns Chelsea, which means Major League Baseball approved him. And they're approved with international soccer bodies. And he's got the money and Abu Dhabi invested with him, like some of this become self perpetuated. And by the way, he might not have done anything illegal. This may just be risky. He's being investigated or doing something illegal. But I think the point is this, if you see something that doesn't quite make sense, and this is again, what Warren Buffett says, if you see something that you don't understand, just stay away from it. Even if somebody else is making money on it or whatever, if you don't understand it, you don't understand it. I didn't understand how Mark Walter had the money to personally buy the Lakers. It didn't make sense to me. I didn't have the subpoena power or the financial engineering doctorate from Princeton to totally understand what was going on. But it didn't make sense to me that he had the money personally to buy the Lakers. So make of that what you will. If you want to call me an adequate, that's fine. But it wouldn't be the first. But Dave, so the crazy thing here is, is that the Lakers were in the middle of this makeover for their team. The entire business operation has been turned over. There are people, I know of one guy who was a front office guy, who was in the middle of leaving one team to go to the Lakers, and now I've said they're in a hiring freeze. And it's like, well, who's going to be in charge? You know, it's Paul. (laughing) I don't know. Like, these are the questions. And obviously the on-court product is relatively locked in. And obviously we talk about Kamenka, who knows if that happens, but they have 16 guys on their roster. The team's mostly going to look like what's going to look like for next season. But when you are trying to contend and trying to add an 18th banner, you're going to have to win around the margins. And part of their intention going into this offseason was to use Mark Walters resources and put it towards other ways that they can enhance the program. And you know, they Rob Plinka stated, he wanted to hire two assistant general managers. He was only able to bring in one. The other spot remains vacant. As you just said, the hiring freeze. We're going to see, or I haven't been in the Lakeers' practice facility in months. I know they just unveiled new practice courts that they showed on social media. But part of the idea of the G-League team moving to Palm Desert was to use the space that the G-League team occupied and turn it into advanced training equipment and medical equipment that the players could use on a daily basis. I don't know where that stands. These are the type of things that, while we wait for the sale to be completed with Iger and Krishner, could be put on pause. And you know, when you're Luka Tantzic and you made the NBA finals with the Mavericks and now it's two straight years, without getting back to that perch and wanting to have every available advantage at your fingertips to try to get back there when you have someone like Shade Galuza and her who's now locked you with the championship and two league MVP's. We'll see how patience he's going to be with this process. And look, just like Joker can profess his loyalty to the nuggets, there's still going to be teams that are positioned themselves and monitoring that and all that kind of thing. It's the same thing with Luka. He's done nothing but express optimism and excitement about the Lakers since he signed that extension. But it's not that long-term of an extension and you better believe there's teams randomly that are looking at that situation saying, "Hey, if this thing goes sideways, would you like to get Luka midway through his prime?" Well, we'll say this. If you're Luka, betting on the brand is pretty safe, which is why the Lakers sold for even more money they sold for a year ago and chances are, if they sold again in a year, they'd sell for even more because you're betting on the brand. Well, and the brand is so strong that despite pretty cost and mismanagement through Genie Bus's reign, they've managed to win a championship 'cause the brand's so strong that LeBron James decided he'd want to come there and 84 to trade there. Like, you know, there's advantages to being the most glamorous franchise in basketball, located in sunny Southern California. - One thing Dave, you had a story that came out this week that's 'cause you bet you'd bet you'd tag along rights. The concept of the reason you'd have a tag along right would be if you're a minority owner of a team and the team control sales, you want to be able to have the right to sell your shares at the same time because, you know, if you're buying a controlling piece of a team, you're gonna pay more for it. If you're buying a piece of a team that only doesn't give you control at all, you're probably gonna pay less, you know, if the Lakers controlling share sold for a $12 billion valuation and, you know, the bus family keeps their 18% and they sell in a year, you know, that would be very valuable but I don't think they could get $12 billion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think they could get. The whole reason to have a tag along right is so that you can, if you're a minority owner gives you an off ramp to join the highest sale possible. So that's one of the reasons why the bus family, other than to nail Genie for, you know, for firing all of them. - I was gonna say especially for my minority owner who was fired and like keep on the building. - Yeah, like one of the reasons you want a tag along right is the ability to maximize your value for your share. I assume Patrick Shun Shang who is the Lakers minority shareholder, who you wrote a story about this week, had tag along rights but he's passing, you wrote about that this week. - Yeah, he's passing and it's significant one in just the sense of understanding what the entire scope of the ownership will look like whenever the Eiger and Christianer sale is ratified by the board of governors but it is also significant because the athletic is reporting that if Genie bus loses her legal battle and all of her siblings are free to sell their shares off and she's left with just under 3%. The athletics reporting that she is interested in buying back 12% of the team somewhere to be able to hold 15% is what the requirement to be the acting governor which was her intention to do it for five years at a minimum at time of the Walter sale. So we've already ticked off one of those five years. Well, guess what? That's 4% that is unavailable to her. Patrick Shun Shang is not selling. Ed Rosky Jr has 3% out there and then everything that's left will be under Eiger and Christianer's jurisdiction and I don't really see the motivation for them to sell back 12% to Genie bus. - Well, I mean, in theory, if she had a better relationship with her siblings, she could buy them out. - Oh, good luck. - Sure. - We have three of them had a job a year ago and now they don't because-- - Double the price. I'll think about it. - All right. Well, that's a lot of financial engineering for a basketball podcast. So on that note, thank you very much, Dave. You're an agent. - Your friend must be pretty damn smart if he's the one out of you to go to Ivy League school. I feel like you could have fit in Ivy League school. - Wow, what an incredible. Is he trying to butter me up for something or say some sort of ass to come here? I went to Kent State University, which is the Harvard of Portage County, Ohio. - There we go. - Yeah. All right, thank you so much, Dave. Thank you very much, McMahon. Thank you to our producers Tucker and Jackson, of course, is back with us after he went to another wedding over the weekend. All this guy does is go to weddings. That's where to go. Who knew we had so many friends? Seriously. All right. Thank you for listening. I'm watching the Whoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week. Adios. Mingos.