Caviar and Wine: How to Pair, Serve, and Actually Enjoy It featuring Shaoching Bishop of Regiis Ova Caviar

(upbeat music) Well, hello and welcome to The Wine Access Unfiltered Podcast. You guys know that I am a firm believer that the holidays are the perfect excuse to bring out the fancy snacks and not that I've ever needed an excuse to enjoy it, but nothing says fancy snack quite like you guessed it. Caviar. In our last episode of this holiday food mini series with Flannery Beef, we talked about how you can seriously elevate and simplify your holiday cooking by choosing incredible ingredients and letting them do the talking. So for example, with Flannery's dry aged beef, the work is already done for you. You basically just put it in the oven and let science do the rest. Today, we're taking that same philosophy and applying it to one of my favorite holiday indulgences, caviar, because truly caviar might be the ultimate example of less is more. When it's high quality and handled with care, you don't need technique. You need a mother of prospoon, I think, something delicious to sip on and maybe, if you're feeling a little bit wild, a potato chip of some sort. But as much as I love caviar, it occurred to me that I know very little about it. Maybe some of you feel the same or maybe your caviar curious whatever the case, there is no one better to guide us through this world than Shelching Bishop, co-founder and CEO of Regis Ovek, caviar, the ultra premium caviar company she built with three Michelin star chef, Thomas Keller, of the French laundry and per se, focusing on responsible farming, craftsmanship and above all, labor. Shelching is someone who believes that caviar shouldn't just be reserved for special occasions. It should be shared, celebrated and enjoyed. So whether you pop a tin for the holidays before a big meal or share some quick bumps in the couch while watching Home Alone with your loved ones, Shelching is here to help us out today. Guide us through the best ways to enjoy caviar this holiday season. Please welcome to the show, Shelching Bishop. - Thank you, Amanda. - I'm so happy to have you here. I know this is like, this is your holiday season, this is your busy season. It's super rare for you to be doing any sort of interview. So I love that you made an exception for us. Thank you. - Happy to talk about the my favorite subject. - Oh good. Well, it's quickly becoming one of my favorite subjects. And I want to start by sharing with you that I don't have any children of my own, but I've made it my mission to make sure that my sister's kids are introduced to great foods early in life. My sister and I, we ate really great as kids, but as the resident auntie, I decided to introduce them to caviar at the very ripe ages of two and four, they're Nell Free and five, the only issue being that I didn't anticipate that they would love it so much. They absolutely went bananas for it to the point where I get videos and phone calls from my Nell Free year old niece. And I went caviar, and I went caviar. We went to see Santa on the train the other day. We had to have caviar. And so they've been introduced to it very early. - So my first question to you is when and how were you first introduced to caviar and was it an immediate love? - That's a funny question. Yes, caviar became so popular the last 15 years, 10 or 15 years. It's very kids-friendly now, because parents are buying it and introducing to their kids at a very young age. When I first started, that was only 18 years ago. So I started as an investment banker. And the way I got into caviar is a caviar company was not doing well financially. So I was asked to manage the company around and sell it. That was in 2008 and 2009, which is San Francisco-based company, called Zonic-Lake caviar. So I took over the company with a mission to turn the financial around in order to survive. And that was the first time I tried this. I said, "What is it? It's a fish egg." Yeah, so pretty late. - So pretty late. And did you like it initially or was it an acquired taste? Because I feel like for me, it wasn't the quick love that my three-year-old niece had. - Same feeling. I was a little hesitate because it was just raw eggs. - Yeah. - And salt. So I know it's safe, but without knowing the background, I was a little hesitant. Yes. It was okay. It's creamy, but nothing I've had before. So yeah, it's a acquired taste for me. - And I feel like so much of it depends on the quality, which we can get into throughout this episode. You know, if you're introduced to caviar and it's mediocre caviar, I assume it's, you know, it's a similar experience to wine, right? Like you can have an aha moment with me and very early on if you're introduced to great champagne or great burgundy or maybe great napkin cab. But, you know, if you're not, if you're introduced to something like boxed wine that isn't so good or some lower grade caviar, maybe the experience won't be so great and it will be sort of a slow build. Speaking of wine, I want to make mention, well, I don't have any of my glasses, but you beat me to the punch. - Yeah, I have the glass. - We have a beautiful bottle, not of champagne today. We have a beautiful bottle of shardiné, which I'm very excited to drink. I know obviously a lot of you think of champagne and caviar, which is a lovely, wonderful, brilliant pairing, but I wanted to do something that maybe you had a considered which is sort of the still version of champagne. So we're doing a shardini from Napa Valley, probably not in the way that many of you think of Napa Valley shardiné. So this is Matthias and shardiné. So this is a very, very gently oak shardiné. So you're not gonna get any of those really rich, buttery, creamy flavors, really none of that butter, scotch, cardamom thing that you normally get from new friend joke. It's going to be very clean and crisp and almost remind you of champagne that's gone like a little bit flat. And this has everything to do with the Matthias and sort of outlook on how they make their wines. It's a very minimalist approach. It's really just letting the grapes do all the work, which in great caviar, you let the eggs do all the work. I think. And so when you're thinking about pairing caviar, shardiné like this is a really great way to go about it. I think especially if you're doing it with something like a potato chip or something that's got a little fatty richness. But I'll cheers to you, Shalcheng. I know you. Cheers. A slightly head start on me, but that's yeah, totally acceptable. I like the beautiful part of the label is pretty. Yeah, it is really pretty. You know, the Matthias and Zerm Stephen Jill, they're based in Napa Valley. And this is the Linda Vista shardiné. Justi Matthias and really kind of became famous because he was the first Vintner to take some of these really high-end, premium vineyards biogenomics. So he actually got the IZVineered up in Calisoga, certified biogenomic. And now he's really kind of, dope of them, it becomes sort of the calling card in Napa Valley for biogenomics and regenerative farming and really sustainability in general. So anytime you hear that, you know, those words come up in conversation, generally, the Matthias and they're going to be part of it. So I thought it was a perfect wine for us to enjoy today. I want to sort of jump into, you know, very high level idea of like, what is caviar? 'Cause I think for some people, they look at it and to your point. Earlier, it's like, well, it's fish eggs, but what is caviar and what is not caviar? Caviar traditionally come only from one fish, which is a sturgeon fish. It's called sturgeon. And the scientific name is nasty cancer, which means sturgeon. And a lot of people mistake with other roles, for example, paddlefish or a salmon roll, which is a red caviar, people think that's caviar. And it's loosely used, but strictly speaking, it should be from only, from a fish called a sturgeon. - So it's sort of like this idea of champagne, right? You can only call it champagne, if it's made in the region of champagne. You can only call it caviar if it's coming from a fish. - Correct. - Fish, okay. - Yeah, there's a lot of caviar on the market. It's come actually from paddlefish, pack 'em back. It's all black caviar. It tastes similar. It's smaller beads, but people just call it a caviar. - Which is not true. And sturgeon can come from where? It's, I mean, I think most of it, what I see now is farm sturgeon, not wild sturgeon, right? - Correct. So historically, there's few regions in the world that can sturgeon come from. The most famous one is the Cascadean Sea and the Black Sea. And then in East Europe. And then there's many natural rivers, like in South America, Europe, why Sacramento River in California, the Amore River, bordering Russia and the China. These are all natural habitat for the sturgeon species. - Is that still a sustainable way to go about acquiring caviar or is farming now become more of the way to do things? - Well, farming become the only way because the sturgeon, in nature, the sturgeon is endangered. So all over the world, including US, obviously, it's wild sturgeon and wild caviar are banned. So right now, things 2005, fish wildlife service, made it. illegal to approach in the nature so you can only have farm to caviar. So for the last 20 years, if you have eaten in a restaurant and buy caviar online, 100% it should be farm to caviar because a wild is actually illegal. Interesting. So all of these farms and then under this the sturgeon umbrella because I've seen, you know, there's lots of different words on on the caviar tins, things like etc and cluga are those different breeds or types of sturgeon or where does that distinction fall into please? Yeah, so these are different species we call. So the sturgeon comes from a sturgeon. They're all sturgeon like I said, a sturgeon comes from sturgeon called acid panzer good and steady and then cluga actually cluga is banned in this country so many people say cluga is a cluga hybrid it's a crossbreed and then it's a crossbreed between two different sturgeon species. Yeah and there's a Siberian, there's a white sturgeon so these are all different names for different species of sturgeon. And I assume sort of you know like different species of grapes, they impart different flavors or is it really just a function of you know how they perform while you're farming them? They are different flavors by genetic genes so it's for example, beluga which is also banned in this country. They are typically larger beads and a little, it takes a longer for the fish to longer time for the fish to become mature. It's like beluga takes over 20 years versus white sturgeon california takes about 8 to 10 years and then a tetra maybe 10 to 12 years it just depends on the species how long it takes them to mature. Wow and so when you say mature is that so 8 to 10 years for some of them 20 for others that is the amount of time it takes in order to then harvest the row? That's correct so it's like the the row will develop over the last over the 10 years, hear it and become large enough and black enough to be commercially traded because you can have a sturgeon that has five year old and you you see the eggs are very small and it's not matured so it can be white or green, light green and those that are not commercially tradable. That's a long time. So that's the one planning and yeah and so people always ask is sturgeon farming sustainable? It is actually all all the farms are practiced sustainability because it takes so long for them to harvest the first batch of eggs it's not prudent for them to cut corners because you need to make sure the fish is healthy in order to get the quality of eggs at the end of the age of 10 year or 12 year, hear it. And at the end of that 8 to 10 year period is it you know I assume the the row is the heart, the fish eggs are harvested and then what is the process after that? Does it take a long time for because they assume that the eggs have to be cured or how does that work? Yeah so typically we yes it takes about 1 to 3 months for the eggs to be properly cured. Ideally 3 to 6 months are the best cured eggs but a lot of people like fresh caviar so it tastes creamy, clean versus the age the caviar can be a little bit strong so for I would say for for beginners for people who are not too familiar with caviar, you start with fresh caviar. Okay. It's like it's just a curing process so it's like age the wine versus fresh one. Right and so will you see that on a caviar tin how long it's been aged or is that generally something that you'd have to research online? It's always available if you ask but no it's not put on the tin nobody has put because it's every caviar distributor have different ways. Some of them just buy caviar for our richest over caviar we cure all the caviar in house so it's it's really important the temperature the humidity and how you turn the tins so the salt will become evenly distributed because our fresh caviar, especially in the US, majority of the caviar sold in the market are just salt and a fish row, a sturdian bone. So just two ingredients and as some people if it's a shelf life is much longer than let's say two months typically people put preservatives to keep it a little longer shelf life but that does affect the quality and the taste on the caviar. Interesting I feel like I'm learning so much already and I have so many more questions so you brought up this issue this idea of quality and obviously you know caviar is not inexpensive but even within you know the caviar category there's lots of different price brackets of caviar so what what would make something more expensive or less expensive? Is it generally the species or the type of fish? The type of sturdian is it the curing time as you said? Is it this meticulous detail of humidity and control? There's a common misconception that to more expensive is better. It is true for a lot of products. Yeah we have it in wine too. Yeah but it's the most important is actually the processing procedure and also the obviously you know different species has different quality but that's very personal preference. Some people like certain dry wine it doesn't matter how great the sweet wine is it's not going to work right so it's very much personal preference so some people like orciccia and and because it takes it's cleaner it's creamy and egg looks beautiful because people eat with their eyes and some people love the white sturdian it's a little smaller eggs it's a it's very mighty it's smaller but very mighty very creamy but it's people some people like dark color because they think caviar should be black but some people like the golden caviar because it's pretty so it's there's four different categories we when we look at the quality of caviar nothing particularly ordered because everybody has a different preference it's flavor is it creamy or it's bland because it can be beautiful but it doesn't taste very flavorful the second is texture is it a firm or soft so most people associate softness with less fresh so firm when it's putting your mouth it has a pop that usually is considered a little better quality because it's a reminder of freshness right and then the size is it large or small most people like larger eggs so in sturgeon when they grow older they produce bigger eggs so they can have many years of naturalation some fish are larger to start with so they're eggs a little bigger like the blue guy it happened to take 20 years to mature but it is also a larger fish so the egg is naturally larger to start with and some people care a lot about the size but we also have a different category called Siberian it's also sturgeon species it's black eggs most likely it's black color small beads that's very very creamy so it's just like oysters you know is bigger oyster better than the small oyster not necessarily it's just different preference right and then the last one is the four categories I just mentioned the last one is color just like with human we have different different hair color it doesn't make it better good it's just the genes that's like the golden versus the black caviar well the golden can happen to any species even the piece like white sturgeon or acetylchial or hybrid it's very rare we have golden on Siberian species it's actually a gene mutation so you don't know until you open the fish it's not you cannot tell if it's golden or not I see and it's very rare the reason it's so expensive it's our average it's between 1 to 3% of the total population so once you know why you get a golden one and that's why it's priced at high in the marketplace and does it taste different or is it more of a texture thing between the golden and the black it's not necessarily consistent okay so our experience is the golden somehow it's just a little cleaner taste okay and a lot of people say it's creamier but I think you eat with your eyes so when you look you're already feeling good. That's just the honest truth. Am I okay? My personal opinion. Yeah, I mean, when you say something so rare and you know, only one to three percent of the surgeons going to be golden and you know, it's more expensive. You assume that there's some sort of difference besides just the color, but it sounds like maybe, maybe don't waste your money so much on the on the golden if you don't care about the color. Yeah, but people love it and I personally tried a lot of different things. I closed my eyes and tried it. It does taste more cleaner and more creamy. I don't know why. Interesting. Yeah. I assume it's a little bit like wine with terawar sort of influencing things. So this idea that the environment of the fish is going to grow in. So, you know, the salinity of the water, you know, what else is around it, what they're feeding on. I assume that plays a role in how the caviar will taste. Absolutely. So the most important fact for a better quality caviar is the water. If the water is clean and it's flowing water like constantly circulating, colder water makes a difference. The sturgeon fish loves cooler temperature because they are bottom fish. So in the ocean, they actually go all the way on the bottom. They like the cold weather. So the water quality is probably the most important and then also how we farm it. The temperature, the feed, whatever you feed to them, the air quality can be different. And if it's a lean diet or fat diet or this will affect the quality of the egg forming, now another important step is called purging. Purging is when you take the fish off diet and put in very cold water so they kind of hibernate a little bit and that they stop eating. So at our farm, we do two to three months without eating and so the egg become very clean. So it's like the cleaning process, purging that affect the quality of caviar significantly. Now some farms cut corners because it takes a long time and there's a risk in associated with the hibernation. First of the fish will lose weight because if they don't eat for so long and also because the temperature is much lower, it's possibly they can get thick. So after 10 years, you don't want to lose that fish. So that purging question, it comes from experience. So Chef Kalen, I just partner with the largest fish farm in California probably in North America in terms of sturgeon farming. It's called the fishery in Sacramento and they have been in the business for over 50 years. Three generations now, they have a lot of experience in purging, reading the fish to start with, but make more importantly the purging part of it, the strict temperature control versus and also the feed, a special diet and the length of the purging process. It's so fascinating. I mean, you eat the caviar and you know it tastes delicious but you don't think about all of the work and all of the thought that goes behind just the farming side of things, which is just incredible. And obviously, you know, no surprise when Chef Kalen puts his name behind something, it's going to be the highest of quality, especially what it's served at his restaurants. I assume with harvesting and trying to maintain this sort of freshness, I assume harvesting happens throughout the year or is there one particular season for it? So different farm and different region in the world practice different seasons. So in nature, sturgeon only they add to join the spring time. So they was swimming to a shallow bed when the males are swimming around and that's when they lay the eggs. And so spring time is always better, but now because it's farmed environment, it's less important whether it's summer or wintertime, but typically a spring time generally through May are the most popular harvesting season. And then in our farm in Sacramento, we have also do a fall harvest. So that's usually the end of November to November December. And so ideally it's spring time for some farms in the other parts of the world, they harvest the nine months of the year except to the summertime. So summertime is too hot to the temperature is not stable, so the fish are not happy. So that's not the best time to harvest. So almost everybody, every farm avoids summer harvesting. Does that mean that there's a time of year that you should be purchasing caviar versus not? No, because it's cured. So it takes, the most important is take the best raw eggs, right? And then you're going to cure for few months. For example, the ideal time is three to six months. So if we harvest in May, right now November is very ideal to have consume that caviar, but every caviar has different aging process, right? So when we cure, typically we put between 3.6 to 3.8% salt. So it's called a malasol. It means in Russian, it means little salt. So it's just the raw fish-sturgeon eggs mixed with a little bit salt, and that salt in process takes, you know, anywhere between one month to 12 months. So when you consume during the holiday season, it's actually you're taking fall harvest, that's considered fresh caviar, so that's harvesting September, October, or even November. And then for other, like our farm, we only harvest joint springtime, you're talking about six months aged. It does, just like wine, the harvest date is less important when in terms of when you consume it, but the spring harvest usually is a little better quality versus less a summer time. Summer time, we try to avoid it, but some people do have summer harvest, and the eggs are usually softer. I think it's fascinating. The actual curing process sort of fascinates me because I know that's a big part of, you know, outside of the farming, that's a big part of, you know, where your thumbprint can kind of weigh in. Is it done in a particular vessel or are there types of vessels? Does it matter? I mean, outside of the salt, is there anything else that's playing a role in that curing process and the time of it? Yes, it's a great question. Yeah, it's a temperature and the humidity and how often you turn the tin. So all caviar stored during harvest time in large tins. So these are one kilo. You say large, how large? Are we talking like a caviar? Yeah, I was going to the door or larger. No, it's much larger. I was getting getting into it. So in any size between one kilo or 1.6 kilo. So that's about three and a half pounds, but that's the best way to cure the caviar because the small tins, there's a lot of surface area. So the surface area is easily exposed to oxygen, right? More surface area. So there's two elements that caviar will quality will be affected is the temperature and oxidation. Makes sense. So the larger tin, keep it more consistent in temperature because it's all together in huge volume and also less surface area. So it's less likely to be it's oxidized, oxidized when we are curing in house. The things once it's sorted, you cannot change it anymore, right? So the temperature become really important. Most commercial refrigeration is 30 to 40 Fahrenheit degree and that's okay. So some people say where how do I store caviar, the best way is probably store in the coolest part of your refrigerator. Not freezer, you never freeze caviar, okay? It's just regular refrigerator and there's in the drawers on the bottom could be a little cooler and also when you open the refrigerator, the temperature goes up and down. So temperature flantillation is not good for caviar. So we always suggest people to put in the drawer or maybe just put in a top-aware, close it. So when you open the refrigerated door, the temperature changes, but it doesn't change the the the jar as much. That's a great tip. Yeah, that's just yeah. Yeah, that's that's a great tip because I'm I'm always I I have a little caviar on my fridge now and I'm in my mind, you know, a lot of the same principles for wine would apply, you know, it's a it's a product that you know is subject to the whims of oxidation and chemical reactions. So we want to manage that by not allowing fluctuating temperatures or you know, sunlight, things like that that would normally affect wine. So I was curious even earlier today, should I kind of move it to the back of my fridge, but in the drawer makes perfect sense because it's not going to be shifting around so much. Yeah, I want to talk about the enjoyment of caviar. I assume you, you know, being the CEO of a caviar company, enjoy quite a bit of caviar or not so much anymore. I'm not a very fancy person. Chef Keller is. So I'm the executor in the operation room and so he knows all the application of the fine dining and how do you the how do you best use caviar. So I actually don't eat caviar at home much. Usually when I'm doing it, it's testing for quality. So I do taste every single tin where we ship out to make sure that we know what our consumers are getting. So that's a lot of caviar. Yes, I do take. It's a tough yeah. Is it a mother of pearl spoon that one should be using to taste and enjoy caviar? Yeah, that's the most common way and because meadows spoons in the old days interact with the caviar and it leaves a very metallic, strong flavor in your mouth. So you don't want you want anything neutral. So if you don't have mother of pearl spoon, a plastic spoon will be okay. It's less fancy, but it's okay or a wood spoon, but wood spoon is a can have a little taste. It depends on what kind of wood, right? But these days are almost all our utensils are all always. So it's a combination of different metal. So it's not the pure gold or pure silver. So the reaction is very small. Yes, we suggest you enjoy caviar with mother of pearl spoon. It's actually the least affecting the flavor. But if you don't have it, I want to see the second choice is plastic spoon or a regular utensil. It's a great tip. I wouldn't have thought plastic. My mind didn't even go there, but plastic makes perfect sense. I mean, chefs use plastic to taste all the time. And maybe the next time I have caviar in the go with the kids, I'll bring plastic. Because sometimes those mother of pearl spoons just kind of like, blah, blah, the waste item, they're hard to find. In terms of storage, once it's open, you know, God forbid, we have a little extra caviar. Is it safe to consume after it's already been opened and if so, for how long? So for it depends on who passed the caviar. So we take over 95% of oxygen out of the tin. So the caviar is stayed very fresh. We can anywhere from six weeks to eight weeks for all regions of our caviar tins. Once it's open, it depends on the condition, how you store it. If it's very cold and it's sealed, I would suggest you cannot seal the tin anymore, but you can wrap it with a surround wrap. Yes. And like I said, put in a topware or something that if you can expose a caviar, the least that would keep the quality a little longer. We typically suggest to consume within two days once it's open. Yeah. That feels fair. I know you don't enjoy a lot of caviar yourself at home and we've believed the cooking to chef Keller, but do you have favorite ways to enjoy it if you are enjoying it? I mean, I know the easiest way for us at here at home is a potato chip and maybe a little crumb fresh and caviar on top unless we're doing bumps, but are there other ways that you suggest enjoying caviar? Yes. So there's one recipe actually find it's very, it's very very easy to do, but most people don't do it is that you take a chilled cucumber and you slice very, very thin and just put a little crumb fresh and a dollop of caviar is delicious. Oh, wait, this is a great. I actually just did this. I made myself some tuna tartar and I sliced some some cucumber and I loved it. I never even considered putting caviar in it. That's so smart. Yeah, because the cucumber doesn't have salt and it's very clean taste. So the caviar profile stand out. So that's something I've tried and recommended to many people. That's brilliant. I and also I was I was just tasting the wine and I was like that this particular shardinay and cucumber would be so beautiful. There's actually in this wine, there is a tiny bit of that kind of like cucumber water right on the finish there that would be so good. I love this. I'm trying this immediately. What a great tip. Yeah, and this wine is very smooth and it's a little bit sweet so that the will go complement with the caviar. The saltiness, it's it's going to go very well. Yeah, even it's not champagne. Yeah, it's not champagne. Is it champagne the gold standard for caviar in your opinion? I would say vodka probably are the most such traditional way because vodka has it's literally it's like a palate cleanser in a way. So every time you have a sip of vodka, whatever you taste the next is very pronounced. Okay, so when you say vodka, I assume you're not like you're not taking like a shot like are you talking about like a vodka martini? Anything that's vodka related. Yes, it kind of clean your palate. A champagne is good too because it's bubbly and it's chilled but champagne also comes with a lot of different flavors. True. So that could be it's a good combination with caviar. Vavaska is probably the cleaner version of tasting caviar because it has less flavor compared to champagne. Well, that was like a kind of a Russian tradition, right? The vodka and the caviar like that all kind of stems from that origin and I'm sure that I've had a martini with caviar. I just feel like I always have wine open and if I have caviar, it's that's what I'm gravitating for. But now I want to try it. And now I want to try some sort of like vodka wine or champagne cocktail to see if maybe there's like a hybrid in there. Yeah. It might be fun. Yeah, some people even say people say you never drink drink red wine with caviar. I've done it. It's people put caviar on on top of steak. Steak is very flavorful already, right? I was red wine. It's fine. I'm so glad that you said that because I was I was I was on the verge of asking and I was like, no, she's probably going to be anti red wine. But I have to tell you, I went to Silver Oak a few months ago and they were doing a they only make red wine there. They were doing a caviar experience with their red wine. And I was very skeptical. I'd never even considered red wine and caviar before. But I tried it into your point. It was very similar to doing something like steak and caviar. It was just it was very heavy on the salt. But I will say you mentioned it early with the shardney having a little sweetness. When you have these wines from warmer climates that produce grapes that have a lot of just natural ripeness and natural not necessarily sugars, but these pronounced fruit flavors. You have this really beautiful juxtaposition between salty and sweet flavors. And I think that works really really well with caviar. Another thing I want to add is caviar is great on top of vanilla ice cream. With with a little bit olive oil. You wanted the very very good olive oil. But not regular olive oil because that doesn't have much taste. But something very you just need a little bit. So you drizzle a little bit very fine olive oil that has a little you know the earthy taste. Yeah. And then caviar on top. The combination is amazing. That's actually my favorite. Oh, do you do the olive oil on the ice cream first and then the caviar on the way? Yes. Okay. Yes. Have you seen the butter dipped ice cream? Have you seen this yet on? It's been like all over social media. No, I have not seen that but I've heard about it. So in East Europe, like a lot of people just eat caviar with regular butter and bread. It's actually the best combination. If you just take a baguette with some a chunk of butter and with caviar, it's amazing combination. Oh. Yeah. Because it's sort of like the it's like the sardine or something on the bread, right? That's saltiness. Yes. So it's the people always think caviar has to be consumer join New Year's Eve. That's true. But if you have the means to do it, bread and butter, and caviar is great. Can I tell you my favorite thing to do? hopefully you won't judge me for it. But one of my favorite things I've done it on Instagram before I get, please don't judge me. I get McDonald's chicken nuggets. And I-- Oh, that's delicious. And I do McDonald's chicken nuggets. And dollops of caviar. And usually I'll do white burgundy with it or champagne. But if I'm having like, it's been a week. That is my little treat myself thing. Yeah, this is actually perfect because it's the size of the nuggets. Yeah. It's just like potato chips. The only thing I would be concerned, if I would eat that, is the salt content. Because McDonald's is a little bit on the salty side. But fried chicken with caviar is very popular now. We have a couple of clients who are using that. It's super, super popular. Another thing is the latkes. Same. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, it's fried, right? So anything fried. And yeah, it's a good-- you're talking about a different kind of oil combination, in a way. I did. I've been to coca-doc a few times in New York, which they do the chicken nuggets. So there's this Korean fried chicken, which is really nice. It's a naturally gluten-free batter that they use. So it almost has that kind of McDonald's fried consistency, where it's not a thick layer. Because I find sometimes that the fried chicken and caviar doesn't work so well with that very thick kind of KFC style batter. But this kind of thin chicken nugget is really nice. And it's like the perfect casual decadence. I just-- I like that side by side feel. You know, the holidays are very stressful, as you well know. And people are very busy. And so you're going to splurge a little bit. You're going to spend maybe a little bit more than you usually do. But when you have a great quality ingredient, it speaks for itself. And it takes the lift away. So it makes it a lot easier for you as the host to impress your guests and you're not spending hours trying to perfect some recipe. Redisoba has kind of done a lot of work for you, flinery beef, done a lot of work for you, so you can just take that little dollop of caviar, put it on top of ice cream. And now you're a brilliant hostess, or you're just a brilliant person enjoying a Tuesday night at home. We have met so many people saying, oh, I don't like caviar. Just don't give it to me. And then they taste our caviar. It's like, oh, I love it. So it just really depends on the quality of the caviar when you have a bad fish egg. Bad batch of caviar, people think it's smelling fish eggs, right? Versus something, and that's what Chef Caviar and I want to introduce to people is when they taste it, they love it. Now they start putting it as part of their life or they seek caviar. So our caviar, Redisoba caviar, it's probably best. You're just eating on its own. And if you want to save time during holiday season, the easiest way is to buy a bag of chips and crème fraiche, which we also make in-house. But you can also buy in grocery store. The difference is our crème fraiche is a little more fresh. We make it a small batch every week, just to sell for that week. So it's mild. And let's say you don't have access to it, sour cream can also replace the crème fraiche, a bag of chips, some crème fraiche or sour cream. And then just caviar, with a little bit chive, I personally love the chives, you know, or chopped red onion, boiled egg, just one or two hard boiled eggs will be served about 20 people. Because you chop it very fine, you just put a little bit. Just like a tiny. Yeah, just these are all very easy things to do or a paper, a little paper on the side. So it just makes the caviar experience more fun. But it doesn't cost you extra or time or money. And these are household food that most people carry. No, it's super fun. In fact, we, I mentioned at the tabush show, we did a ride on the train with, it was like a Santa Claus train with the kids. And it was the easiest thing. We just packed caviar on ice, bag of chips, a thing as sour cream. And we all just kind of like passed it around. And it was, it was just like a really fun decadence. Of course, the entire train was looking as like we were crazy. But it was just such a fun way to enter the holidays and have fun with the kids and make some memories. And I think you can do that in so many different ways, not just during the holiday season, but throughout your life. And it's, you know, it does make a difference, the quality of caviar that you're purchasing. So I appreciate you sharing why and what you guys are doing at Regis Ova to make the quality standards as high as they are. Obviously, Regis Ova is available for purchase online, correct? Yes. Yeah. And you ship nationwide worldwide? We ship nationwide of everything prior already overnight. So if you would order before noon time, California time, you most likely will get it the next morning. So that last minute, you can get this last minute if you haven't done your planning. What about the creme fresh? Because now I'm very curious about the creme fresh. How do I get the creme fresh? Is that overnighted as well? That's correct. Yes, it's also online. And like I said, we make it every week. So it's very mild. But because creme fresh, there's a culture in it. So the longer it's like yogurt, the longer it stays, it gets sour. So that's the reason we make it every week. So whenever you get it, it's more fresh. And it's just-- You want anything that goes with caviar is on the lighter side. So the caviar profile stands out. Right. Right. You don't want to spend all that money for nothing. And I will say, it does make it. We didn't get creme fresh. We forgot sour cream this time. And it does make a difference. I spend the extra time spend the extra few dollars to get the creme fresh. Because my mind, I was like, how different can it be? And you're right. It's just a little-- like it's fine. It will do the trick. But it's just a little too hungent to go with caviar, in my opinion. Yeah. So it's a lot of personal preference. But our goal is for people to truly appreciate the caviar. So all the other things speak should be complementary. Not to taking over, overpowering the caviar taste. Yeah. Thank you so much, Shelton. I know you are incredibly busy with everything that you're doing, especially this time of year. And I am so grateful that you took the time to share your wisdom around caviar today, answer all of my questions if people would like to continue learning about Regis Ova, where can they find more information on the company and where to purchase? We have a website that you can order. It's just RegisOva.com. And a lot of people don't know how to spell it. You can also Google Thomas Keller caviar. It should come up. We will link everything below so that you guys can easily find it and get your holidays going in proper spirits. If you guys were not drinking with us this afternoon, or whenever you're listening or watching this podcast, this is your cue to join the Wine Access Unfiltered Podcast Wine Club. You can find everything you need to join in the description below to get this beautiful bottle of shardinay and the three other wines that I curate for each shipment. I hope you guys are having an incredible holiday season. I hope you are going to enjoy caviar of some sort. I know that it will be on my table. And I will be enjoying it with my family over the next few weeks. And then some, I birthday is January 5th. So I will definitely be having some on that day as well, though, we will be fine. So I think I might have to fly with some caviar, but we can make that happen. Shardin, thank you so so much. I hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday season and whatever lies ahead until next time. Cheers. Cheers. It's my pleasure. Thank you, Amanda. [MUSIC PLAYING]