Catfishing, Gaslighting, & Reddit's Darkest True Crime Secrets

Hi everyone, before today's episode, we want to tell you about What the Fact. It's a new show from Conor Tomlinson, who you know from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum, and Carter Roy from Murder, True Crime Stories. Every week they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Conor's infectious energy will make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on Earth. Follow What the Fact, wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact is. This is Crime House. I was immediately horrified, quite literally shaking and crying, as my wildest nightmare of someone planting a device in my room had literally come true. Oh my God. My immediate thought was, who would do something like this? What did I do to deserve this? I called my boyfriend immediately, and he admitted he knew what it was. If you're loving crimes of Reddit, please follow, rate, and review us wherever you listen. It helps us build this community, and we love hearing from you. We're going to be doing a lot of work, and we're going to be doing a lot of work, and we're going to be doing a lot of work, and we're going to be doing a lot of work, and we're going to be doing a lot of work, and we're going to be doing a lot of work. Have you played like, what about we? I've never played a we before, because I'm not a video game girl. I'm just really not. So I only play with my family like when we're on a trip, or something for the holidays, we like bust it out and have some drinkies and play. So are you a solitary girl? Should we? I don't want to be your game. I don't play any. I stay away from them because it just ruins my day if I don't win. Does Elf don't play a game with Alexis? No. Okay. What about you? You like to lose? I don't lose. I don't lose. I don't lose. Okay. Well, that's fair. I hate playing games with my brother because he's such an asshole. Like when he's competitive, and when he wins, I just like, that's like me. That's why I've read, like, I don't want people to see me like that. It's better, it's better that they don't. And remember me in like a fond light, you know, fair. At least you know yourself. Yeah. But I love the Wii. Like I have one in my bedroom in your bedroom because that's where my TV is. That's hilarious. And some days I'll wake up and that's the first thing I do. I play a game. We bowling by yourself first thing in the morning. I highly recommend it. It's very fun. Like you roll out of bed and that's what you do. I roll, I roll into a bowl. That's so funny. Anyway, we have stories from Reddit. What is our, what is our theme today? Deception. Yeah. There's a lot of shocking stories in this one. Yeah. And I think it's so interesting because there are so many different ways to be deceived or to deceive someone. I mean, really people can get very creative. And this episode proves that they do, in fact, get creative when deceiving. And once again, the stories that I have picked, Alexis has not heard or has no idea what I've picked. So you'll be reacting blind. And then I don't know the stories you picked. So I'll be reacting blind to you. And I do know that we picked a story from our subreddit for the end of the episode that you'll be reading. So I don't know what it is. Can't wait. But until then should we, should we jump into the first deception story? Yeah. I think we should. Before we get into the first story, we do want to give a content warning. There are mentions of psychological manipulation, gaslighting, possible stalking, and obsessive behavior in these stories. Okay. Okay. Let's buckle up. I don't want to read the title of this one because I want to let us, I don't want it to be ruined. Yeah. I want a nice little surprise factor. But it was posted in the Am I overreacting subreddit? So a little before this guy and I started dating in 2022, I was added to my boyfriend who at the time was just a friend's three person Instagram group chat with who he explained were some of his closest online friends. The two other accounts seems like real people. They had real followers and comments on their posts and drastically different aesthetics and looks to them. Eventually all of us made a discord server for us to chat in and that alone was convincing enough since multiple times we would all be active at the exact same time. We never voice chatted, but I didn't really use voice chat in my life. So I never thought twice about that. The group got really close over the years and as more and more time passed since I was first added to the group chat last month, we decided to plan a research trip to Hawaii for August. We live on the east coast of the US, like we literally booked everything for this group. And so it's context they've never met in person. This would be the first time they're all together meeting and hanging out in real life. Do we know how old the OP is? This feels like a very youthful scenario. We don't have the exact age, but it does remind me of kind of a gamer community where people really do form friendships online. Okay, I love this, but they're taking it into the real world. Yes, taking it offline. Okay, so imagine my surprise when I'm over at my boyfriend's house tonight and his computer is open and I just want to log into my Google docs when I accidentally stumble across. First of all, follower bot sites and then I see him logged in in chatting with me as one of the other individuals from the group that I thought I had become close with and I just got this sinking feeling. I didn't jump to the idea that these could be fake accounts. I was like, okay, maybe my boyfriend just has their logins since they're all super close and is way too interested in their messages. But then I noticed their only chats on their accounts were the group chats and our discord server, but the real kicker was that the email address that was signed up under these accounts was his backup email with his old name. I quite literally snooped until he got out of the shower and caught me, which I'm not saying was right of me. Yes, it was, but I couldn't help myself during my snooping I gradually became devastatingly confident that he wasn't behind just one of the accounts, but both. I've never seen his face so red and he just absolutely panicked and started shouting at me to get out of his business. I couldn't even form the right words to say to him and in the end I just walked out of his apartment sobbing. This was very early in the morning, so I get it, but this screenshot is what he has to say and I am starting to feel crazy. OP says am I overreacting about my discovery and this is the text message OP text boyfriend saying I just want to know why when it finally came time for the Hawaii trip how are you going to explain that what were you thinking. Boy friend responds you know something I've noticed about you you can never just be calm there always has to be an issue I know you are raised in a volatile environment and still have to relearn a lot about healthy relationship dynamics, but it's like you thrive on chaos only. And we were going to see wicked tonight but I guess there that goes how manipulative so OP responds you can't be serious I deserve answers I'm honestly so creeped out basically half of my life for the last two years has been a complete and total lie and you were behind all of it. He responds OK don't be dramatic you know this isn't a big deal you're just getting to harp on this and make it a bigger issue we did completely deflect and gaslight and try to manipulate her and just completely not answer for the bizarre oh yeah behavior two year long charade also which is also very manipulative yeah there's no version of pretending to be. These friends that is OK well maybe he was trying to manipulate her through those friends yes either to like hey like so how serious is it like maybe there was one of them like side texting her and being like so what do you think like are you mad at him is it like get information or like manipulate her into talking shit and capture there are a lot of people in the comments who were saying anytime you got in a fight. He could then sway your opinion by using these friends making you believe you were confiding in someone else yeah and then like then you're having three people. Distort your reality so if you're upset about something that a normal person would agree that like that something was fucked up that happened right these three people being like. And echo chamber like no, that's not a big deal. You're crazy. That could be really, that could really work your reality And also I just I mean, I have so many questions because these accounts predate like they were friends when she was added to this group Which makes me think he had this plan to kind of use it to ingratiate her with him more and then also the accounts existed for years prior. So who else has he done this to? I just think it's strange like Lerker like having a bunch of accounts to use for whatever you want to like Especially this doesn't sound like a random burner account that you can use You know if you want to look at your enemies stories or something. Yeah, it seems like they were developed like over time and she describes Yeah, he's that were active and friends and comments like it seems like a lot of work And what the hell was he planning to do when they were going to Hawaii? They were gonna like be sick at the last, you know, yeah, yeah, you hear about stuff like this where there's always something It's so manipulative. They get very creative. Okay, so a lot of the comments are arguing with us one says this is not okay I'm blown away that this is actually real because what how could someone do that to you your partner of all people and Was he ever planning on telling you or just letting it right out? What does he gain from this? There are so many things running through my mind, but the most disgusting factor is how he responded to it It's so manipulative like he's deflecting instead of owning his own actions I'm sorry. You're going through that and a lot of people were like I don't understand what endgame is here Someone was like like I'm imagining the night of your rehearsal dinner Hey babe about my groom's men. They were driving here and all died in a freak accident. Oh Well show must go on literally. Yeah, and then yeah Someone was like the entire thing was carefully crafted a plan to get her into a relationship with him in the first place I have zero doubt that every interaction that took place between her and the three different accounts He was running we're geared around steering the two of them into a relationship and controlling original posters reality It's a truly psychotic and diabolical level of manipulation Also pathetic so without it weird and again, it's like This kind of obsessive behavior is so disturbing When it's focused on anything really, you know, it's like someone who's willing to Dedicate that much energy to doing something like this like imagine what else you could do with that kind of time and I can't really fathom that right. It's hard enough being one person It's like an individual. It is so hard to just like every day tasks and like maintaining relationships and friendships and businesses I couldn't imagine doing that for Three people one Instagram account is so daunting. Yeah Like no, it's like such a pain that to deal with Imagine no and unfortunately we have no update, so we don't know What Sounds like she was breaking up with him though. Yeah, like She very clearly knows how fucked up it was. Yeah, so I hope She left him in the dust. Yeah, I hope so too But it does remind me like there's there were a couple seasons on something was wrong that podcast that Were very similar to this where someone Created fake accounts or fake people and then manipulated the whole relationship through Those fake people. It's insane. Yeah, bizarre. Yeah Wild and sane. You ready for story number two. I'm ready. You're ready to dive in. Let's do it Oh, please not that music that music gives me nightmares from my childhood. Could we get something a little bit lighter lighter music here? Are you a fan of true crime TV shows and what about unsolved mysteries the show that jump started all of our love of true crime? I'm Ellen Marsh and I'm Joey Taranto and we host I think not a true crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories from your favorite true crime Campy TV shows all the way to unsolved mysteries. Baby you will laugh you will cry You'll think about true crime in a whole new way and you'll also ask yourself who gave these people mics new episodes Of I think not our released every Wednesday with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon and Every Monday you can listen to our true crime rundown where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcast There's another theme emerging here with this episode. I wonder what that's gonna be bad boyfriends Okay, at the end we'll discuss about whether there's a through line here or not. Yeah, I have a crazy story about Disruption. Oh, let's save that for me. Okay. I'll save it actually go for it. You want to hear it? Yeah Okay, I'm like I don't think I can wait that long so my dad Cheated on my mom rude Agreed, but he created a fake email pretending to be my mom and emailed his girlfriend Pretending to be my mom saying I totally understand why Derek can't be Celebrating Christmas with with his family this year. I hope you enjoy your trip Why because he wanted his girlfriend to believe that it was okay. My mom knew they were in a relationship My mom printed this out and gave me that email why aren't you get it because I was the child that was an adult friend You were the parent-ified child. Yes, I was that's the correct term for it. Yeah, well that must have been Strange, but also like how much work? Honestly, just be honest and deal with every precautions and maybe don't have a secret affair. Yeah, don't do that I'm sorry. Thank you. Oh, I think it's funny hilarious I'm coping with it through humor. We're all dealing with our childhood traumas in our own ways I've done a lot of therapy and it doesn't it's not as big of a wound anymore I bet the ghosts help the ghosts. Yeah. Yeah, just being scared of just thinking about the ghosts. Yeah, right. Good drag. Yeah Okay, we're ready for story number two. Yeah. Am I overreacting over this air quotes small prank? I'm female 22 had been with my boyfriend male 25 for a little over a year and a half Recently, we've been running into hurdles because I've been feeling like he has been bothering teasing poking biting me more than being serious In loving as a partner fighting For context, I mean making weird noises all the time or groping me randomly even if I'm in the middle of a sentence and talking about something serious When I would prefer active listening. Yeah, I know shit agreed loving touch an ironic quality time. I can literally picture What she's talking about an ironic right describing that's what she wants. It's like oh, everything's Which I was asking for the bare minimum. Yeah We had a huge conversation about this recently as I was on the brink of ending things with him Since the lack of warmth relative to his unseriousness was making me feel empty Since then there has been a genuine effort and big improvement And I was starting to feel very hopeful that this was something we could work through Fast forward a little. I am starting a new job as an educator And while I am very excited about it It was also a huge adjustment and has been really stressful On top of that for the past six days I have been hearing this bizarre beeping noise coming from my closet that chirps once every like 20 to 40 minutes and it's driving me nuts Oh my shirt's like when you're fire alarm where smoke detects me in battery change. I don't know how people Leave them beeping. I don't either Because it would drive me insane. Yeah So I understand why this would be so bothersome 100% especially when they're like already stressed out and have a lot on their And like starting a job as an educator, which I presume to mean teacher. Yeah, really hours or really rise times Yeah So OP continues. I couldn't figure out what it was. It was keeping me up and infiltrating my dreams And it started to freak me out since nothing I own makes that sound Nothing in the closet even had a battery in it and from my overall stress and lack of good sleep I was starting to grow paranoid that someone had planted a device in my room So she's being driven like actively crazy. Yeah, by this. Yeah, which who wouldn't yeah to add to this I'm extremely private and the only people who are regularly in my room are myself and my boyfriend when he visits This led me to fearing that my boyfriend was secretly stalking me and had planted a mic or something in my room That was starting to make noise parentheses. I had zero reason to believe this and had 100% trust in him but was starting to go crazy It even happened while talking with my therapist and when I explained the mystery of its origins She seemed equally concerned. Yeah to make matters worse the fridge at work is broken It peeps nine times every minute so it started feeling like this chirping was following me compounding my general distress like that would Throw me into like a psychosis. I can physically feel the like frustration of that. Yeah, makes your skin crawl in the confusion. Yeah, you know, where it's like is it me? Yeah, like am I carrying a magnetic field that's like triggering devices to beep. Yeah, you know Last night after a stressful day and finding out some unrelated unsettling news that is enough to emotionally affect me on its own My sister heard the noise as well and we decided to tear my closet apart at 10 p.m parentheses when I had to wake up at six to figure out what had been plaguing me after timing the beeps for an hour. It beeps in irregular intervals. We found this tiny Arduino board. Deep and one of my boxes labeled, quote, annoying PCB as pictured. And OP says Google it. It's literal sole purpose is to drive its victims insane. OP continues. I was immediately horrified, quite literally shaking and crying as my wildest nightmare of someone planting a device in my room had literally come true. My immediate thought was who would do something like this? I called my boyfriend immediately and he admitted he knew what it was. He admitted he knew what it was. But not that he did it. She says, I hung up and haven't spoken to him since. The reason I'm not sure if I'm overreacting is because on the one hand, I understand how this might be funny. But to me, that doesn't matter. Given A, the fact that I have been feeling like he hasn't been generally serious with me to a problematic extent. B, the fact that this has been plaguing me and disrupting my sleep literally the first week of my new job. And C, I've been complaining about it to him for days. And he played along, being confused and concerned. Repeatedly asking me, what does it sound like? And even dismissing my genuine concern in paranoia saying maybe there's a little cricket in your room. It's psychotic. No, I was just going to say that psychotic behavior and it reminds me so much of the slug story we read a couple episodes back where the boyfriend was just pushing boundaries and seeing how far he can get. Like this is an escalation from the behavior that we've gotten context from the OP. And he's pranking her at her expense and laughing at her behind her back basically. Well, and it's also a weird like Munchhausen by proxy adjacent sort of behavior where he's feigning concern. And like, let me help you solve this problem. This is so horrible. Like, yeah, when he's creating the problem and then swooping in and trying to be like comforting to her, which is so disturbing. And just like, to not give a shit when someone is starting a new job as a teacher, getting up at 6 a.m. watching how her mental health is deteriorating. She's literally like getting paranoid. Yeah. There's no love there. That's no, it's psychotic. Yeah. Yeah. It's also he was also faking. She had a serious conversation with him about, hey, like, I'm not feeling heard. Like, you're not taking me seriously. Then he feigned improving because she's like, things were getting better. Like, he fixed it. When meanwhile, he's doing this because he's, that's where he's getting off now. I just imagine every time they had a conversation, he would hang up and just snicker and be so fucking proud of himself. But why? Like, what is fun about that? I think he's just getting at a kick out of torturing someone. It's insane. So OP continues. I just feel like this is on par with like glitter bombing. Like, something you do to someone you hate. Never heard that term glitter bombing. It's like, because it creates a mess that never really goes away because it's impossible to clean up glitter. So it's like people were doing it. I remember like, it's got to be like 12 years ago, though. It was something that would circulate where you send somebody like a glitter bomb. Yeah. And then it's, it's really a pain in the ass. Yeah, that sounds awful. Yeah. I feel like this is on par with glitter bombing. Like, something you do to someone you hate, not the person who's supposed to be the love of your life. Yeah. It feels like psychological warfare. And between stretching this out for days and planting it in my room, this feels like a massive breach of trust. Yeah. I mean, understatement of the century. I haven't spoken to him at all. And he's been texting me saying things like it was just a prank. And beep beep beep with a lip season between the two beep beeps. What pisses me off is that this person could go on and date someone else and they're not going to change. They're going to, this is behavior. They're going to continue to repeat in relationships. And who knows what it escalates to. So he was also texting her. I miss you. And please don't ignore me. OP continues. I am so against stonewalling, but I have literally nothing to say to him. And he hasn't apologized or shown remorse. Continue that stonewalling girl. I don't feel ready to speak to him at all. Maybe it was a good prank with bad timing. No, it wasn't. No, no. And I can help. And I can't help but feel like this is just setting us back again. And I'm genuinely shaken. I think it's good that it's setting you back. It should set you back to the point where you break up with him. Yeah. Is that what everyone's saying in the comments? Let's get to them. She says, though, before we get to the comments, I honestly don't see a feature at this point. And I'm not really sure what to do. So yeah, I mean, the comments, I mean, I mean, what do you think they're all saying? That he's psycho and a breakup with him? Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't like you. Yeah. So the top comment that's had 1.3,000 upvotes. Yeah. Let me give you advice as someone who's been on the receiving end of this. Someone who has your safety, mental health, and trust in one hand, and the ability to entertain themselves at that expense of another almost verbatim what you were saying. And they choose the second one. They're letting you know where you stand in their life. You were clearly suffering from this for multiple reasons. And he kept going. Yeah. It was entertaining to him to watch you be scared and confused. The fact that he's sending you beeping text messages and kicking a circle in the dirt going sorry while taking no accountability speaks volumes. Yep. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. When someone can't take accountability or refuses, like he doesn't think there's anything to take accountability for here. He thinks it's funny. No, he's laughing. Yeah. And another person says, Hun, this is psychopathic. Genuinely, he has no empathy for you. I'm speaking as someone who has insomnia, but intentionally messing with one sleep should be an automatic deal breaker. That's 100% true. Yeah. Like I've dated people where it's like when they get up or when you're napping and they like are intentionally and consider it, it's like if I wake up before my husband, which never happens, he's up with like the sun. I am so careful because I'm like, oh my god, he's sleeping like, yeah, I won't even turn like I tiptoe and like bring my makeup outside to like, that's what considering people do. Yeah. You're not supposed to think it's funny to like force someone to wake up and I've actually heard this about children who grew up not realizing that they grew up in abusive households, parents who get mad when their children take naps or get mad on the weekends if they sleep in or like you were never allowed to just rest. You always had to be doing something or you were called lazy. Like that's not healthy. Yeah. I've had this experience in relationships in the past where, and I think a border is a bit on like emotional abuse where I'd be woken up in the middle of the night to have a fight. And it was like disrupting my sleep. And it got to a point where I was like, I will sleep in a different room and lock the door because it is so invasive. Like, sleep is such an important part of our lives. Like, we need it. Yeah. That if someone's disrupting it continuously, even when you've set a boundary and they keep crossing it. And that's the other thing here is, oh, he kept trying to set boundaries and he kept crossing the line, kept crossing the line and was getting away with it. And I think it's really sad how and I'm like, I've done this in the past two. How we as women just make excuses for someone because we feel like we maybe love their potential or love the idea or the fantasy that we have created in our head of what it could be. But the reality is this person does not care about you and is treating you horribly. Yeah. Absolutely. And a couple more, I mean, one person said this. He was quote, "groping you" while you were in the middle of a sentence. If your sister told you that or your mom told you that or your BFF mentioned this, that this is how her partner was treating her, what would you say to them? He is a sadistic bastard, leave him in the trash. And then another user, the internet loves to use the term gaslighting for any lie, which is incorrect. Deliberately planting this device to annoy you and deprive you of sleep so you can't cognitively function well while actively encouraging your paranoia about someone having put a device in your home is actual gaslighting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is crazy abusive behavior. It's really insane. And it also is like, I'll take it a step further. I mean, trying to sabotage your first week on a job means he doesn't want you to have a job. Like, I mean, I feel like you could interpret this behavior in so many other ways because I actually don't believe superficial behavior. It's not superficial. The behavior itself, there's always stuff under it. Yeah. There's a lot of intention. Yeah. And it's like he would have known the implications, like what that could do to your first week. Like, people aren't stupid. People are like, oh, well, they didn't think about that part. I'm like, I don't believe that about anyone. Yeah. I believe people realize they think through these scenarios and they could have seen what could have happened. Well, even sometimes the lack of thought is malicious in itself, too. Yeah. This is why, like, while I'm dating right now, I wish every person I went on a date with came with a resume. Yeah. Their previous dating history, the contact information for their past partners so that I can call for reference. Yeah. And then also just like what happened in that relationship. Well, it's why, like, Facebook groups popped up, like, are we dating the same guy? There should be Yelp reviews for people. Yeah. But I could also see how that could get messy. But I think for women, I think it's completely fair because like safety's on the line. But like, then I could see men abusing that and leaving, you know, spiteful. - Yeah. - Lies, that's true. - You have to dig all with a grain of salt. - Unless you see it for yourself, you have to take it with a grain of salt, you're absolutely right. - I believe her though, I don't mean to. - For sure, that's what we're making. - But like now I feel bad for whoever dates him back. - Dates and next, they're with the first story. - Yeah, absolutely. But these two deceptions are interesting because it's in a weird way like getting entertainment out of seeing someone, making a fool of someone. - Yeah. - In both of these scenarios, it's really strange that these two people enjoy that. Yeah. Okay, our next story has some similarities to this, but it also feels stalkery and it's kind of scary. - Okay. - Okay, let's hear it. (upbeat music) - We all experience petty grievances in life. - A bachelor at party that resulted in a runaway bridesmaid. - A neighbor who has trained their dog to poo in your yard. - An ex-friend who writes a semi autobiographical book about your friend group and then kills off your character. - Well, maybe these aren't completely relatable, but they are all petty crimes we've investigated on our podcast. - I'm Griff, your average biracial farm raised queer actor and retired model who's living and looking for love and Los Angeles. - And I'm Kira, I'm an SNL writer, a movie writer, a comedian, and I'm the only person pettyer than Griff. - Petty crimes is a true crime comedy podcast that exclusively investigates non-crimes, meaning real life, low stakes, petty drama that's submitted each week by our listeners and ruled on by us. - Some weeks, we're joined by comedian friends like Ego Wodom, Gianmarco Saraci, Chloe Fineman, Sarah Sherman, Jeremy Colhane, Carl Tart, Lacey Mosley. But most of the time, you're just stuck with us. - If you're the type that tells your boyfriend to shh, so you can ease drop on the T-Unfolding at the table next to you, you found your people. - Subscribe to Petty Crimes, wherever you get your podcasts. - This is called the Guy I'm Dating, a 36-Mail, has a shrine to my 37 female ex-husband in his house. Okay, this was originally posted in 2019. O.P. says, "I was married for seven years to a celebrity." I put it in quotes because while most of you have never heard of him, he is a list in the world of metal music. If you're a metalhead, you would 100% know who he is. He and I split amicably because he was always going on tour, which I used to love going with him, but the thrill of it wore off and I just found myself sick of traveling so much. Because of this, we grew apart, but we still keep in contact occasionally because despite the fact that our marriage didn't work, he's a really cool, nice person. Two weeks ago, I met a guy through a friend, and I immediately hit it off with him. We've been on three dates so far. The first two dates were drinks after work. He showed up in nice khakis and a button down both times. On our last date, I went to his house to watch a movie, literally watch a movie because we're taking the physical stuff slow. He has a nice house, so I asked for a tour, and after he showed me the upstairs, he said he had to show me his game room. We went down into a fully furnished basement with a pool table, a mini bar, and darts, but there was also something very weird down there. Apparently, my new man is really into metal music, which I would never have guessed based on how he dresses, which is why OP mentioned how he will dress up. His favorite artist of all time, you guessed it, my ex-husband. Mm-hmm. He had framed posters of all of my ex's bands, autographed signature guitars. Every record my ex-husband has ever released were all framed on the walls. He even had magazine articles about him and some of his bands framed. Every wall in this game room was covered with my ex's face and his signature guitars. So, I may have messed up here, but I kept my mouse shut and didn't say anything. This guy knows I'm divorced, but he definitely doesn't know it's from his idol. Tonight, he and I are seeing each other for our fourth date, and I know I need to tell him, but how? I really like this guy, but I'm afraid if I tell him, he will freak out and run. What should I say? Where should I tell him? I just don't want to damage our relationship because I can really see it becoming something long term. I know I should have told him at his house when I saw all that, but I was honestly in shock. Does anybody know how to approach this? I have thoughts. Same. Are we sure he didn't know? Because if you met through a friend, are you sure he didn't know? Well, I think that's why it feels like he wouldn't know because a friend introduced him. Like, wouldn't that friend vouch for this person? Wouldn't that friend say her ex-husband is this famous metal singer? Sure. There's a lot of questions. Yeah. And that's what a lot of commenters are saying is like, I find it very hard to believe he doesn't know. I don't believe he doesn't know. And I believe someone who is such a fan, nothing would be, if you're really obsessed, nothing would be better than being with his ex-wife. 100%. And then it's like, ooh, if he, I'm like with his ex-wife. Like, I'm as good as him. Like, it's kind of putting yourself, trying to get yourself on the same level. And I think that's really weird. Yeah. It's very objectifying for the OP. Like, yeah, to him, if he knows, he's trying to get a trophy in some guard. Or even get close to her ex-husband and use her. And I'm also very glad that OP didn't confront him in that moment because someone like that is dangerous. Could have been weird, yeah. It could have been dangerous, like physically. You're alone in his house, in his basement. But I've only been on a couple of dates, you don't really know him. So if he did know, he was like getting off on this charade then because then like she's watching her squirm and not say anything. Yeah, we do have an update, but let's read a couple of the comments and OP did respond to a lot of them. I find it really hard to believe that he has a shrine of your ex-husband to the level you're describing but doesn't know who you are. Maybe I'm jaded, but it seems too coincidental and potentially unsafe for you. OP said a lot of people are saying this and now I am a little freaked out. I mean, he can Google my ex-husband and find out we were married. Now I'm scared he definitely did that. I'm going to ask my friend that introduced us if she told him. Then someone asked, have you ever been in photos with your ex-husband that this new guy might have seen? I find it hard to believe that in this day and age that he wouldn't know who the former wife of his idol is. And OP said this never dawned on me until I posted it, but there are pictures of my ex-husband and I all over the internet. I'm definitely now freaked out that he already knew. Little naive. I'm not victim blaming here, but like you didn't, this didn't occur to you as you're writing this red post. I think again the excuses we make. Yeah, for people that we have interest in, or like it really sounds like the OP, aside from this moment, saw a future with this guy. Okay, that's fair. It was going well. Yeah. After a lot of the comments, OP was like, I am going to break it off with this guy. I can't believe it didn't occur to me that he already knew. So they're realizing, again, glad that you went to Reddit. Mm-hmm. Someone did ask, it feels like he took you down to the room looking for a reaction to see how you'd react, but we do have an update. Okay. After getting huge range of answers, some of which were very frightening, I decided to give this new guy the benefit of the doubt and go ahead with our dinner date that night, our fourth date. I met him at the restaurant and we had some wine first. We were just talking and chatting. And I realized I had to bring up the ex-husband thing. So while we were both two glasses of wine in, I decided to just ask him flat out if he knew that I was previously married to his favorite musician. He nervously laughed and said, yes, I knew, but your friend didn't tell me I figured it out. He told me essentially that he found out through the grapevine and decided to start mingling with my friends so he could meet me. He told me that yes, at first it was just because I was married to his idol, but now he really is developing feelings for me. Even if that's true, red flag don't be with this person. You know, though, it's like, I've heard stories like this about people like having a crush on someone they've never met and like getting into the same rooms and like somehow making it happen. Like I've heard that and I'm like, I'm so on the fence about whether that's dangerous or not. You know, 'cause I would do that with Tom Felton. That's why I would do that with Malfoy. Well, if you heard a celebrity that you've like liked and had a crush on and thought was hot, you heard he always went to one bar and you're like, I'm gonna go and or you heard like, your friend, you know, is one of his business partners in a restaurant or like hypothetically like, would it be weird for you to be like, try to get in the same rooms? I don't know. - It is kind of stalkerish. - Yes and, but that's also the culture we've created around celebrities is people idolize them and that's why they are celebrities. If it's like, oh, I wanted to, I want to marry some people or like that's what they want to do and they end up hanging out where they hang out. - Maybe like want something different. I don't know, but is it creepy? I don't know. - Yeah. - Is it creepier than like finding out what someone likes and like trying to get them to like you to find commonalities? I mean, yes, I wouldn't do this by the way. I just don't know what the line is. To be like, I want to marry someone who plays football and you just find out, you know, it's like, Is it ambitious in manifesting or is it Creepy and I'm not dying on either Hill. I don't know. Yeah. I think there's a fine line though. I do think the situation's creepy. Yeah. It's creepy because he didn't say anything. Yeah. And he knew. That's where it went over the line. And then so we have more of an update where it just does show that this guy. Yeah. So OP says I thought I was a little odd but I felt fine with it until I remembered his man cave basement. I asked him if he knew I was married to his favorite musician and if so, why the fuck you would bring me down there to show me all the memorabilia. His response was also weird. He said I was trying to see if you would confess. I was like, confess to what? And he said to being married to my ex. I told him I thought it was pretty concerning that he tried to trick me into some weird confession and that I didn't think he and I would work out. He accepted it and didn't seem upset or anything. Dinner had already been served so we started eating and then he proceeded to bombard me with questions about my ex. When is he releasing new material? What's his favorite band? What does he do during the day of a show? Is he vegan? What's his mother's maiden name? Bob. Bob. Bob. She said that she made up the last question but basically that was like the line of questioning. Finally, he could sense my discomfort and we ended the dinner in parted ways. He said he would text me the next day, just as friends, which I said was okay. Well, this text the next day was him trying to get him and his friends VIP passes to a show when my ex came to play near us. I did not respond and I blocked his number because he kept texting over and over begging me for the hook up to my ex. What a loser. He was desperate and weird. Anyway, I called my ex to warn him about this dude, even though he does seem mostly harmless, but I was just was concerned. This guy doesn't know where I live and I didn't get any psycho vibes. I really think he just wanted me as a trophy as some user commented on my last post. Ew. Thanks, Reddit. Ew is right. Ew. I have the ick. I think any type of obsession that goes to this extent is extreme. Yeah. It's okay to be like, wow, I really love that actor or I love the movies they're in and respect their work and would like lose my cool if I met them because that you do idolize them. But to like make your entire personality and life around them, I think that's where it gets dangerous and scary. 100%. And then also to like try to mess with somebody like, are you going to confess? I don't know. Confession. Confession? Like, confessing is if you did something wrong or deceptive. Yeah. Which you're doing right now. And the fact this is what like when he said it started out as a way to learn more about the X. He's like, but I'm starting to develop real feelings and then immediately turns it back to the X boyfriend or X husband. Yeah. He only wants you for that. He sucks. Yeah, he sucks. Dump him. She did. Yeah. I feel like this episode should be dump him. Yep. See, am I fucked up that I'd be flattered? Is that my toxic trait? I'd be like, aww. Yeah, that's fucked up. I would really get me the hell out of here right now. See, this is why I'm like, is it? Oh my god. Good thing you're married in a healthy relationship. I know. I know. Thank God. I've been flailing out there. All right, we have one more story today and we teased it in the beginning, but we have a special guest here with us. Hi. Hey, more from Crime House's Clues and also Heart Starts Pounding. I came all the way from down the hall from like the two studios over all the way over. Yeah. Thanks for being here. No, thanks for having me. I'm so excited. I did. I did. Was it this episode or last episode where I said we saw Spongebob. Oh my god. We saw Spongebob. We do tell you. I was like, how does she know what's the voice of Spongebob looks like? How do you know? How do you not know? I didn't know. I honestly don't know his name, but I did say like, we looked him up. We were walking. I don't get starstruck. Here's the thing is I say I don't get starstruck. There's like very few people I get starstruck for. But as we were at this restaurant, I see this man leaving and he's going like this. So I look at him and he has colored glasses on him. I'm like, that's Spongebob. And I saw the back of his head and you saw the back of his head. Tom Kenny. Tom Kenny. Oh my god. That's exciting. He's having a great time too. I love that guy. It's exactly how I would think Spongebob would be. He'd begin real life. It feels too perfect. I know. Yeah. So that was a good one. Because you're not in a life for very long. So it's like, it's cool to have celebrity sightings. And Spongebob is like top of a list. Do you have anyone where you would be like, like your breath would be taken away if you saw them in real life? Well, we're actually the last story we read was all about like a guy who basically started dating someone because he was obsessed with her ex-husband who was a musician. And I did say maybe the one person, well, there's a couple like Killian Murphy. I would do anything to like get in a room with him. Yeah. You said that would be your hall pass if you were in a relationship. Let's clarify. Yes. And then Tom Felton. But it's like the characters they play that I think I'm attracted to. Like Malfoy was my first crush ever. And then I think Tommy Shelby from PE Blinders is so sexy. Yeah. So like the bad, the bad boy guy who's been going on yet. Interesting. Who would you do for? Like freak out. I don't know. The hardest I ever freaked out was for when I saw a need from Catfish because I loved that show. All of my friends were like Killian, like he's on an MTV show. I was like, I don't care. I texted my mom. I like snuck a picture. So it's people like that. I don't know. I'm trying to think of anyone who I would really be taken aback for. I can't. What about you? Is there anyone that comes in mind? I don't think so because I thought I knew and then I saw them and I didn't really care. Who? Bill Murray. Oh, that's a cool one. That's probably good. I'd probably be excited to see Larry David. Yeah. You know? Okay. Alexis, you have a story for us. Oh yeah. I'm excited for this because normally it's like two gal pals gossiping. A third gal pal will only increase the fun. Extra, extra. And I got to say this one, we're going to have to buckle up because there's a little bit of yeah, horror. Just just hang in there through the tough stuff. Okay. And this came from our subreddit, right? It did. So it's like a listener. A listener. Yeah. As we give advice, we could be giving it to the person. Yeah. And like it's an intense story. So we have some brave people posting in the subreddit, which I really commend. So, okay. Shall I get started? Yeah. I'm ready. Okay. I inherited my abusive grandfather's estate and found evidence that made me question how my mother died. Oh, I know. When I was 10, my mom was diagnosed with a brain tumor and the two of us moved in with her parents. She received radiation treatment and initially got better. But when I was around 13, she began slowly losing functioning. Eventually, she required full time care, which my grandmother provided because she was a nurse. My mom died when I was 15. My grandmother explained that although the radiation had killed a tumor, it had also slowly damaged my mom's brain until her body eventually shut down. That was the explanation I believed for the next 15 years, which I'm not a doctor, but I feel like that makes sense. Like radiation is really damaging to a body, right? Yeah. I can't even pretend to know what radiation even really does. Yeah. I mean, I think it's just, it kills bad cells and good cells. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. O.P. continues. Some important context. My grandparents were horrible, abusive and violent people. My grandfather was obsessed with me and abused me in essentially every way you can imagine. Oh, my gosh. No. This was the hard stuff I was talking about. My grandmother allowed it because once they became his primary target, he stopped abusing her as much. I didn't tell my mom what was happening because she was dying. Also, if those are her parents, I'm sure she faced a lot of abuse growing up with her parents. Yes. Right. So I didn't tell my mom what was happening because she was dying. I didn't want to leave her and I was certain I wouldn't be believed anyway. Oh. My grandfather also wasn't a frail old man. He was a former pilot who worked as an aviation inspector/trainer for the FAA and was highly respected professionally. Outside of work, you taught martial arts and women's self-defense and wrote for martial arts magazines. What? I mean, these are the types of people who it's so hard to believe when things like that come out because he's created this whole persona publicly. I'm teaching women to protect themselves from bad guys. I couldn't be a bad guy. Never. That's fucked up. Very. So he held black belts in multiple disciplines and remained remarkably dangerous into old age. About two months before he died from dementia at 92, he kicked in the age that he lived that long. I know. They always do. They mean makes you live longer. Their cockroaches are using a die. Yeah. He kicked an aid at his care facility into a wall hard enough to send her to the hospital. Basically, picture an elderly Chuck Norris, except terrifying. I'm so sorry to our listener that you had to live with. Heroing. Yeah. Heroing. So sad. My mom died in 2001 while I was away on a church trip. I continued living with my grandparents until 2004 when I was 18 and ran away after my grandfather tried to beat me to death, just a few months before I graduated from high school. Geez. Very, very hard to read. I cut contact with them after that. Although mutual acquaintances occasionally told me major updates, like when my grandmother died in 2014 and when my grandfather was eventually placed in dementia care. Then in 2016, my grandfather died. As his only living relative, I inherited his estate. That meant returning to the house where I'd grown up and going through decades worth of papers and files that he kept. And that's where things got weird. I was going to say the first time I read this like, good, at least you got, you got something, you know, like after all that nightmare shit putting up with this monster, but it's got to be hard going back and then having to go through everything. Maybe the only living relative and then you have to deal with like, there's stuff. Yeah, it's a lot. I know. It's so tangled. The first disturbing thing I found was a poem he'd written to his first wife who had died in 1944. In it, he apologized for what he'd done to her and wrote that he already had enough deaths on his hands to send him to hell. What? I know. Wait, and he was sorry. His background is as all pilot. Yeah. So okay. Not even like a military death. Yeah. That's what I was trying to think like, oh, was he in war and World War II, maybe, but no, he was a, he was a pilot. And also he's apologizing in this note. And yet he went on to abuse so many other people like he's not actually sorry. He wrote this letter in 1944. He's not actually. And I hope that's where he is, by the way. Geez. Naturally, I started digging. I found her death certificate on ancestry. Her cause of death was listed as undetermined accident or suicide after she had supposedly fallen from a moving vehicle on a highway. Cause that happens a lot. That's the chosen day of suicide falling out of a moving car. Yeah. He pushed her. Yeah. Of course. If you're driving the car yourself, you can't fall out of it really. No. Anyways, it sounds like they didn't really investigate it. Yeah. Yeah. It was the forties, I guess. That poem was stored with letters and poems he'd written to me before and after I escaped. They were essentially love letters. And I don't mean loving letters from a grandfather to his granddaughter. I mean, the kind someone writes to a person they're romantically obsessed with. Given how he treated me growing up, that part unfortunately wasn't surprising. What I found next was I discovered a letter my grandfather had written to a friend stating that my mother had died on a different date than the date listed on her death certificate. The date he gave was the day I left for that church trip. And I remember that day I'd gone to my mother's room to say goodbye. My grandparents were coming out of her room and stopped me. They told me she was sleeping, not to disturb her and that I'd see her when I came home. It's also really manipulative and mean to not allow her to say goodbye to her mom before she was leaving for an extended trip, like incase something happened that she was gone. But also indicates that I'll play. Yeah. Yeah. Nearby, I found a copy of paperwork showing that my grandfather had refused an autopsy for my mother. Then I found correspondence with an attorney. The attorney's response said that he could not advise my grandfather regarding his questions about the different burdens of proof for an accidental death versus a homicide, that he was uncomfortable with my grandfather's line of questioning and that my grandfather should seek other counsel. Okay. So he was asking about like the specifics of, yeah, homicide versus an accidental death. And also like probably a little bit of like how to protect himself. Yeah. He was looking for like cover my ass situation. Yeah. Also that's not really what lawyers are supposed to do. Like I think people oftentimes don't realize lawyers can also just be like, I feel uncomfortable with this. Like you can't use me as your lawyer anymore. Yeah. Could that lawyer then go to law enforcement and be like this because he wasn't on, he wasn't his client, but it was hypothetical questions. You know, like, yeah, it would be, I don't know. I'm curious. It would be a gray area for sure. It depends on if, if they had an appointment and they were sitting in an office, he, I don't think he can. I think immediately that like expectation of privacy is happening. Like I think that's what happens during consultations. Like I don't, if they're not paid, I don't even know if they're not paid. Yeah. I think so. I'll ask. I'll report back my mom's lawyer. At this point, I was understandably thinking what the actual fuck, but there was more. I found a document supposedly signed by my mother giving my grandfather custody of me dated back to 1996 when she was first diagnosed with cancer. I also found a request for my birth certificate on which my grandfather had forged my father's signature. My dad wasn't involved in my life at the time, and he died when I was 17 anyway. Then I found a passport application in my name, also containing what appeared to be my father's forged signature. I've never had a passport. I've never left the country. The passport paperwork was dated just days before my mother's death. What was he planning? Something scary and take off to another country. Yeah. I mean based on what she's seeded so far about like the romantic obsession and the abuse she's alluded to, it's almost like he was going to take her and run to another country that like was more lax about who knows. That's terrifying. You know, it's really crazy. So near it was a printed email exchange in which my grandfather asked a friend for recommendations for good remote places in Mexico to go camping, because he wanted to take me on a trip. My grandfather had in fact taken me on several horrific road trips when I was a child and teenager. I mean, okay, this is all so horrible, but what an idiot this person, this man is for just leaving all of this evidence behind. So many emails were sent. Was he an idiot though? Because he died nothing bad happened to him. No, I'm not suspecting. He's true. It's like, it's more just like, people this evil are so brazen that people almost sometimes can't catch on because they do it so confidently. Yeah. It's almost like the criminals that do get caught are doing it because they're like anxious and like they're not, these people are like sociopaths. Yeah. For sure is. Yeah. Like steady hand, which is terrifying. Geez. So apparently his passport attempts weren't successful. Wait, it was a printed email exchange. That's also like printing out really not hiding things. Yeah. So like very old man. It's so so like way to print out your suspicious correspondence. That's something like my dad would do like, oh, I sent an email about that. Let me go into my filing. Instead of deleting the email, you printed out and put it like out in the open and saying apparently his passport attempts weren't successful because I found multiple complaint letters. He subsequently sent about my applications continuing to be denied. Those complaints continued until late 2003. I turned 18 in December. Then I found another paper trail. Like I can't believe there's more. Right. Like this is one of the most insane stories I've ever heard. It's also so traumatic for our listener and the original poster to have to like go through this through all of this and cope with it. Yeah. And it's so meaningful to share this because like, there are a lot of people in really abusive, dysfunctional families and like people should know they're not alone even if even when it's this bad. Yeah. It's like so helpful to share things like this from May of 2004 to right around when I escaped through 2010. My grandfather wrote monthly checks to a company that I eventually discovered was a private investigation agency. I can't prove what they were doing for him, but considering the timing and his obsession with me, I have a pretty good guess. Then came the discovery that bothered me perhaps more than anything else. When I was 15, less than a month after my mom died, my grandfather had taken out a $100,000 life insurance policy on me, naming himself as the beneficiary. On the paperwork explaining the coverage, the accidental death and dismemberment provision was circled. This is what I still don't understand because this comes up in so many stories how people are able to take out life insurance policies on someone else without them knowing or without getting a signature with like, or in a copy with the idea, like the person needing to show up, being like, I'm okay with this. Like, that is such a red flag. I wonder if there's people who work at those agencies like the life insurance agents who are like, ah, yes, another like man is on his fourth wife asking for another life insurance policy to see this stuff. It's really probably because insurance companies lobby the government to try to prevent them from needing documents notarized because they want money. Like, honestly, insurance companies are so powerful because it's like, you need a notary to notarized documents to do fucking anything. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you think life insurance to my own damn car that I paid for with my money. Right. It's like, you need me to notarize everything except for if someone wants to take a policy out on me without knowing literally lobbyists. This wasn't a man who needed $100,000 to bury me. He earned a six-figure salary, owned his home outright by then, and had always had substantial money. I also found receipts showing my mother's funeral had cost roughly $16,000 and he'd never taken out a similar policy on her. Eventually, I called my older half sister on my father's side and told her what I'd found. That's when my sister dropped another bombshell. Apparently, my father's family had suspected four years that my grandparents might have poised in my mother. What? They believe my mother had started improving enough that she was making plans for us to move away from my grandparents. Given my grandparents money and standing in the community, my father's family believed that attempting to fight them for custody of me would probably fail and might actually put me in greater danger. Insane. This is just It's like one thing. - Yeah. - On the top of another. - Yeah. - Geez. - Nobody had ever told me this. They offered to help me pursue having my mother's body exhumed and tested. But 15 years had passed. Both of my grandparents were dead. Ultimately, I decided not to do it. So I'll probably never know exactly what happened. Everything I found is circumstantial. And I want to be very clear about that. I cannot prove that either of my grandparents murdered anyone. But after seeing those documents, combined with what I personally experienced growing up, I've developed some deeply unsettling theories. I believe my grandfather may have killed his first wife. I suspect one or both of my grandparents may have caused my mother's death. Timing it for when I left on my church trip so that I wouldn't be there. And I believe my grandfather at least contemplated killing me. Years before he ultimately tried to beat me to death in 2004. Maybe that's why he wanted to take her to Mexico. - Yeah. - Citizens arrest is still a thing, right? - Yeah, you can say that. - Let me do like crimes of red at arrest. - Yes. - And if this, I know he's deceased now, but we can still hold him accountable. - Yeah, we talked about citizens arrest on an episode of clues. Actually, it was the Mitre's Richardson case because someone tried to citizens arrest her in the middle of a mental health crisis. And for whatever reason, and maybe I'm misremembering it, it like fast-tracks the process once the police get there because they've already like been citizens arrested. So they like have to book and process the person. They can't really sit and talk and figure it out. Yeah. - Why are there not more citizens arrest? - I'm not using my free will. - No, it's very correctly. - Yeah, yeah. - Is there a lot of dicks out there? - I know. I was like, yes. - You just get out of your car during like a road or just hold their arm. - I'm placing you under a citizen's arrest. Oh my God. Imagine this. - Wait. - I want to start citizens arresting people all the time now. - I wish someone citizens arrested and really arrested him when he kicked the aid into the wall at the nursing home. - But there were other times that he could have gone to jail. - It happens all the time with dementia patients. - I was just gonna say that's the hard thing when it got assisted living homes. There's a lot of violence. And I say that because there's confusion and there's Jews. - So OP continues. I have no idea why those passport applications kept getting denied. But sometimes I think whoever kept denying them may have unknowingly saved my life. - Yeah. - Perhaps this is evidence of a higher power. The combination of the forged signatures, the attempts to get me a passport. His search for remote camping locations in Mexico. And the life insurance policy makes me wonder whether I was eventually supposed to have some terrible accident. And the private investigator payments make me believe he continued keeping tabs on me for years after I escaped. Probably because he's like, "I want to cash "in that life insurance." - Yeah, yeah. - Geez. - I think Goddy got old. 'Cause like a lot of murderous violent people just get too old to do stuff and they age out of it. Crazy. My best guess is that I got older and became harder to control. His obsession with me collided with the possibility that I might expose him. Maybe he couldn't tolerate the idea of me getting away from him. Maybe he was afraid I'd tell someone. Maybe it was some horrible combination of both. I'll never know. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. You should write a book. - Yeah. You are the bravest, most incredible person. I could read your writing about this forever. - Wow. - You survived. - It's incredible. - It's incredibly survived. It's incredible. - Yeah. - If you made it this far, thanks for reading. I've obviously been through a shit ton of therapy since then. I now work primarily as a crisis counselor, which is perhaps the strangest epilogue to all of this. - When I love that. - I know. - You turn suffering into meaning. - Yeah. - Yeah, to help others with what you've learned. - I spend so much of my life trying to help other people survive. - Wow. - Which is amazing. There's multiple things that we can talk about here. But one, thank you for sharing your story with us and being so vulnerable and open. And one thing that I really loved is I went to our subreddit to look at how people were responding. I mean, there's one comment right now saying, thank you for sharing your story. I'm so sorry for all the trauma and awful things you've been through. I hope you can find ways to heal and move forward. And considering Reddit can be a pretty dark place. - Yeah. - I was just so glad to see that our subreddit is full of really beautiful and pathetic supportive comments. - Yeah. - I wanna say too how incredible it is that you're working as a crisis counselor because like hearing about other people's trauma is re-triggering. Like you are-- - It's about to be. - And like the therapy you did in the work you've done must have been so helpful because like hearing about other people's pain reminds you of your pain. - And then you end up carrying their pain too. - Yeah. - When you're at the very empathetic person. - What do they call that? It's like the second dairy trauma. - Yeah. - It's like what health care workers get sometimes. - Yeah. - If you're like just dealing with so many people going through traumatic events, you like kind of can become traumatized yourself. - Yeah. And it's like the kind of strengths like I could only dream of having, you know? 'Cause I don't think I could ever hack something like that and the fact that you're doing that is just like, yeah. - Incredible. - Well, let's bring back Citizens' Rest. - Yes. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And that, keep sharing your stories with us. Thank you for sharing your stories with us. And yeah, this was a wild episode. - Things are having me out. - Thank you for joining. - Oh, this is a really crazy story. - This was a great one. - Have you gone for it though? 'Cause this is such a multifaceted story. It like need another set of diets. - Yeah, and I love hearing from the community too. - We need it more as the board. - We need it. - We need it. - We needed you for this. - Me as a breeder. - Yeah. - Well, how do we deal with it? - Yeah. - Because this is, you know, this is some heavy stuff and OP one more time. Thank you so much for your candor and your honesty and like vulnerability. - Yeah. - Yes. - And thank you, Caitlin, for joining us. - Thank you for having me. - And we're gonna go record our episode together. - Of clues. - Exactly. - So tune into that too. - Thank you everyone for joining us here at Crimes of Reddit, a Crime House original. Here at Crime House, we wanna thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media at Crime House. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Crimes of Reddit wherever you get your podcasts and subscribe on YouTube. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And Alexis and I will be back next Tuesday, pulling it more, Reddit threads. So we'll see you then. Bye. Bye. 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