308. Catching the Boogeyman - The Murder of Robin Lawrence

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Thank you guys so much for being here and for constantly, supporting the show. We love you guys more than you know. And honestly, I hope you are having an amazing week. Just a reminder, we do have merch available. If you want to go check it out, you can find the link to that on our Instagram. Big, big, huge, ginormous announcement. Nothing to do with the podcast. I announced my bagel shop name. There's an Instagram account for the bagel shop. I'm posting on it. We're opening, honestly, probably within two months. I'm stressed. There's a lot going on, busy, spent all day plumbing something that didn't work. That's okay. Life goes on. Anyways, if you want to support, this is probably the last time I'll mention it for a second. So I don't annoy anyone, but the Instagram account to my bagel shop will be below. You can go check it out. I'm going to be posting bagel content. I'm going to be posting business content on what it's like opening a bagel shop, all the equipment that's coming in, just kind of A through Z, the whole building process. So go and check it out if you are interested. And that can be my 10 seconds. Um, like I said, I was plumbing earlier and it's just not working and it's making me so mad. And now we're recording and all I can think about is how I can't fix this plumbing issue. And that's my life, you know, crazy life, plumbing, bagels, podcasts. You don't want to tell the listeners the name? No, you have to go check it out. Got to go. Look, if you want to know the name, you got to go. Look, tell them what you were plumbing. Um, Peyton's vanity sink. There's just a bunch of issues the way it was installed. It's just like a bunch of Lego pieces and it shouldn't be a bunch of Lego pieces, but I have to make it a bunch of Lego pieces. So I just ordered a bunch of stuff from home Depot. It should be here in a bit, but we're going to go eat after this. And then I'm going to try to fix it tonight. I don't know. It's crazy. If you can't tell, I'm a little frustrated, but I'm trying not to be. And yeah, that's what I got. All right. You ready for the episode? Let's do it. You guys ready for the episode? Yeah. Just kidding. All right, let's get into it. Our sources for this episode are cbsnews.com, usatoday.com, nbcwashington.com, cbs6albany.com, wjla.com, theindependent.com, augustafreepress.com, ffxnow.com, tmz, wusa9.com, and washingtonposts. So. Part of the reason we are so fascinated with true crime is because we want to get inside the minds of the people who commit these crimes. Try and understand what makes a monster, which leads to questions like, how does someone even become a serial killer? If someone killed with intention once, does it mean that they're going to do it again? Yes. Or can those impulses be channeled elsewhere? No. Especially when they walked away from their crime completely undetected. And Garrett's saying yes and no, but it is very heard of, of not just random killers, but serial killers who one day just stop. Golden State Killer. But did they? Yes. BTK. But like, did they actually stop? The Golden State Killer, yes. How do we know? He said so. BTK also said so. But can we trust them? They had such a. Such a severe M.O. I know. I just, they've lied their entire lives. Yeah, I get that. I just, I think I refuse to trust. Right. Yeah. I don't know. I don't think, like, I think what actually probably happens if the opportunity presented itself. They would do it again. They just weren't searching out. I think they weren't searching out. Then we got older. Things got harder. But I think if the opportunity presented itself in front of them, they'd be like, yeah. You know what's interesting? I think it's. I think it's probably a bad thing to compare it to. But, I mean, for those who are, like, sober, right? And trying to quit alcohol. Is that what you were going to say? Yeah, this is exactly what I was going to say. Like, they try to either stay away from alcohol or they try to distance themselves from X amount, X drug, whatever it is. Because they know if the opportunity presents itself, it makes it harder. Which. Not comparing that to serial killers because completely different spectrums. But they compare it in their minds. I've heard multiple interviews from serial killers who kill because they have urges to. And they say, I was trying my best not to. I was trying to avoid situations that would put me in it. I just hate that because I just think they're such evil people. I hate giving them the, what's the word? Not benefit of the doubt, but the chance that there's an reasonable explanation, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Nothing, no reasonable. And I know you and I probably disagree on this. I just think if you kill, evil person, leave society. I don't disagree with that. Yeah. I think I disagree with. This is kind of a long intro. It's fine. Like, reformation or reformation, whichever, however you want to say. I just, I disagree with that when someone kills somebody. I think I can. In all situations? Not manslaughter. First degree, second degree murder. Yes. Yeah. I think if you can cross that line, you are. What if it was one time versus serial killer? Like, what's the one time consist of? Like, domestic abuse? Yeah. Or. Anything. Yeah. Gang violence, domestic violence. I just think once you cross that line of killing somebody, like, first, second degree murder, I think there is. I am. I dare to say 100% of the time, if the opportunity presented itself again, they would do it. Yeah. Even if the motive was very specific? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I don't know. It's just. I mean, Israel Keyes, for instance. Okay. Yeah. He claimed that he would. He claimed that he would rob banks in place of killing people because it held off his urges. It, like, calmed him down enough to, like, feed the adrenaline and the urge he was having, but then eventually robbing banks or doing other things weren't enough, and he would end up killing. Exactly. Which is so. The mind is just a pattern that repeats and repeats and repeats. I think once a killer, always a killer. Okay. Like I said, first degree, second degree. I think manslaughter and other. Other situations are unique, but. Can you walk away? Can you be done? Which is why today's story is unique. It is about a case that ran cold for decades, and then a new technology led to a breakthrough and a killer that was never once suspected. He had a job. He had a family. He had a completely normal life. Actually more common than you would think. Which had him asking many of these questions about himself. Why did I kill? And was the monster still living inside? Just waiting to be unleashed once more, as Garrett would say. So with that, let's head back to 1994 to a bustling suburb outside of Washington, D.C. called Springfield, Virginia. That is where 37-year-old artist and mother Robin Lawrence is living her peaceful life. Now, Robin was described as a gentle soul who always had. A smile on her face. She was also someone who had a lot to be proud of. At 37, she was in a happy marriage. She had a two-year-old little girl. A job as the director of advertising for a tire company. And she was also the daughter of the first black man to be a counselor on the Syracuse Common Council in New York. Okay. This is the legislative body of the local government there. But Robin's passions were different from her father's. She attended Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and graduated with a fine arts degree. Everyone who knew her said she was an extremely gifted artist, especially when it came to pencil sketches and watercolors. So it's not shocking she graduated in the arts. And after graduating, she was actually selected to create the first medal for the Martin Luther King Jr. Nonviolent Peace Prize. This was an award that was actually then given to Rosa Parks. Then she later moved to Washington, D.C., where she met her husband, Ollie. And friends said Ollie and Robin were perfect for each other. Ollie completely matched Robin's demeanor. He was also easygoing. He made people feel comfortable around him. He was a warm man with a kind smile. And on New Year's Eve 1989, the two tied. The knot, and then three years later. they had their daughter, Nicole. Now, by then, Robin had her job in advertising, I talked about earlier, and Ollie was an executive for an airline. So in 1994, when Nicole, the daughter, was about two, the couple was living this very domesticated life. Ollie traveled quite a bit for work, but Robin made the most of her husband's time away. She would work on her art, she would do some improvements around the home. They really were living the American dream, content to live out their days as this happy little family in suburbia. That was until November 20th, 1994. Now that week, Ollie had been away on a work trip in the Bahamas, and after not hearing from Robin for about 48 hours or so, he decided to call Robin's good friend and neighbor, Ollie Lindberg. So he's in the Bahamas, he's trying to get a hold of his wife back home, she's not answering, 48 hours go by, he calls her friend and neighbor, Lori. Now, Lori and Robin had been close for years. They met back in Washington, D.C. at a ballet class. They had quickly become friends. They eventually got an apartment together and were roommates before Robin met Ollie and then moved out to live with him. So this wasn't just any neighbor. When Lori heard from Ollie, she was nervous too because Robin is a pretty long-term friend of hers. So Lori gets up and she walks over to Robin's home and knocks on the front door. But there is no answer. So Lori decides to go around back and she saw one of the back window screens of the family home was cut. And so this is when she realizes something is probably wrong. So she actually climbs in. She climbs in and she goes in through the window, which I totally understand why she did, but zero out of 10 recommend because nowadays we know that there's probably so much evidence in that window. But I don't think back then that was common knowledge. So she climbs in and she starts calling Robin's name, obviously desperate and worried about her friend. But it wasn't Robin who appeared. Instead, two-year-old baby Nicole came, wandering up to her looking at her so sad with these giant eyes and this blank expression on her face. And that's when Lori's heart sank. She continued toward the primary bedroom, noticing blood all over the walls and large splatters of blood on the floor. And when she notices all of this, sees the state of two-year-old Nicole, she decides I'm not even going to step into the bedroom. This is her dear friend. She knows something is terribly wrong. So she picks up Nicole. She gets out of the house and dials 911. That's horrible. Now, moments later, the police arrived to the scene and it was around 1230 p.m. when they entered the house and found Robin's body face down on the floor of the primary bedroom with a pillow between her legs. She had extensive knife wounds. All over her body. The autopsy would later count 49 stab wounds to her body. Now, the phone was also on the floor next to Robin, but the cord had been cut. Officials determined by this point, Robin had been dead for about two days, which if you're putting two and two together means, yes, her two-year-old daughter had been left alone by herself with her mother's body for that long. Now, meanwhile, Lori took Nicole to the hospital for treatment. Remember, we are in 1994. Now, thankfully, Nicole was completely unharmed in the attack. But I mean, she has been alone for two days. However, Nicole had undergone a liver transplant in the past. So she was on immunosuppressive medications that she now hadn't taken in two days. Her health was fragile. Luckily, she was discharged shortly after she was treated for dehydration. Now, of course, the psychological damage for those last two days would likely never go away. But back at the scene, detectives were trying to piece together what had happened. And they realized that the last time anyone had heard from Robin was around 6 p.m. on the night of Friday, November 18th. I mean, sadly, I think as soon as you see the screens cut. Like you instantly know what's going on, like, you know, something bad happened because no one goes and cuts people's screens for no reason, you know. You really are jumping to the conclusion someone's dead in there. For sure. I don't think that are taken. I think most people would err on the bright side and be like, oh, that branch just like hit the screen and cut it. No, but just like hopefully it's a robbery and they're tied up inside. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I think I think after doing so many of these cases. Yeah. Just always expect the worst. This is also 1994. I mean, we have forensic files on TV, but I was born. Yeah. I don't know if as many people were as like pessimistic on their safety as people are today. Yeah, it's pessimistic isn't even the word realistic. Yeah. About their safety. Guys, we're getting into an ad and waiting sucks. I hate waiting for things. But earn in is an app, a bank that gives you access to money that you have already earned. OK, if you don't understand, let me explain it up to one hundred and fifty dollars a day and up to one thousand dollars between paychecks. Tips are optional and standard transfers take one to two business days with no mandatory fees. 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All right, guys, we are getting into a sponsor and it is one of my favorites. Quince, you know, those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over again. The sweater that just somehow works with everything. The jeans, you know, are always going to fit that bag you carry everywhere. Well, that is Quince in my closet. OK, all of my Quince products have become my staples, which is why I highly, highly recommend going to Quince's website, checking everything out. It is the quality. It is the quality that sets them apart. I mean, you have the price that they've been able to cut out the middlemen and work directly with factories. So it is cheaper. But the quality of Quince items, I have had them for years. And again, I continue to reach for them time and time again. I'm talking loungewear, silk skirts, cashmere sweaters, and not to mention they sell baby stuff. OK, find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to Quince dot com. Get free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns now available in Canada and the UK. And guys, at the very end, when Quince asks you where you heard about them, please, please, please just let them know. Murder with my husband. It is the best way to support the show. It lets them know that you heard about it here. And it would mean a ton. Again, if you've never shopped on Quince, go take a look and then let them know murder with my husband sent you. So they're trying to piece together what happened. And they believe that she was killed shortly after she was last heard on Friday, November 18th at around nine thirty that night. They discovered that Robin had been assaulted first on the bed and then fought her way down to the floor where the struggle continued. They also found a bunch of bloody tissues all around the house, which they actually believe came from two year old Nicole, who they believe was like subconsciously trying to clean the blood off of her mom because she knew something was wrong. There was also something else in the bathroom, though, that police realized, could be important. A washcloth. It was sitting on the towel rod on the shower's sliding glass door, and it had a few spots of blood on it, which investigators thought could actually belong to the killer. So detectives collected a few other blood samples at the scene in case the assailant's DNA was mixed in with Robin's. But when they took it back and ran it through CODIS, which did exist at this point, but was fairly new, they didn't find a match. All they could really tell from the scene beyond that was that this didn't appear to be a robbery. There were no valuables taken from inside the home. Cash, jewelry, and other items were actually still sitting around and they determined there was no evidence of sexual assault either. It was more just physical assault. So their first instinct was actually that this murder had to be personal. Now as this is all going on, Lori Lindberg, the friend and neighbor who found Nicole and called police, was actually asked by police to notify Robin's parents about their daughter's death. And when Robin's sister Mary heard the news that her sister had died, she imagined it was from a car accident or a heart attack. She never in a million years thought her sister would be a victim of murder. Mainly because it didn't make sense. Not only were the police keeping pertinent information from the family, they knew Robin had no enemies. And they also felt certain that there was no way Ollie would have done this to her. But just three days after what should have been Robin's 38th birthday, her family and friends were paying their respects at her funeral. Now because Robin's injuries were so significant, it was a closed casket ceremony. Her sister Mary said it was incredibly hard because she was never able to lay eyes on her sister one final time. But that funeral was also unsettling for another reason. Based on what little information the police had shared with the family about the murder, they felt it had to be someone who knew Robin. Someone who might have been at the funeral with them. A wolf in sheep's clothing. Now of course for the police, their first person of interest was the one closest to Robin. And whether the family suspected him or not, it was obviously her husband, Ollie. Now from the get-go, Ollie was always extremely cooperative with the police. Not to mention he was out of the country when his wife was killed in the Bahamas for that business trip. And this was confirmed by detectives who literally flew down to the Bahamas to check Ollie's alibi in person. But when police start looking into Ollie, he wasn't squeaky clean. They learned Ollie had actually been having an affair with one of his co-workers. Robin didn't seem to know anything about it. So this makes detectives wonder, could this have been the jealous co-worker looking to remove Robin from the equation? Or could Ollie have put the co-worker up to it or hired a hitman? Well after looking into this other woman, they find that's not the case. They actually clear her pretty quickly. The affair was an unfortunate scenario, one that probably poured salt in the wound of Robin's family. But they still believed after looking into everything, Ollie would never do anything to hurt his wife. Plus, Ollie and his mistress had offered up DNA to compare to the blood that was found at the crime scene. And when detectives ran it, they found zero match for either of them. So the unknown DNA, on that bloody towel, was still a mystery. It didn't belong to Robin or anyone else they were considering as a suspect. And it wasn't matching any of the results in CODIS. Which meant over time, Robin's case actually started to run cold. Still, Robin's family refused to let her story disappear. Ollie and Nicole moved out of the house. But Robin's parents actually moved in for a few weeks after, hoping that they could just figure something out. Maybe the killer would return. Maybe a new clue would surface. Maybe someone would respond to the reward they had posted about getting more information. But the years passed with no new leads. And eventually, Robin's family came to terms with the possibility that Robin's case might never be solved. Their daughter was murdered and they have no idea who did it or why. In fact, Robin's mother actually passed away in 1921. And she was the one who was killed in 1994, not knowing what happened to her daughter that November night. So the family tried to move forward, to be okay with just not knowing. That was until 2019. That's when a volunteer with the police department, who's only known by her first name, Liz, actually asked to take a look at Robin's cold case. Liz was an amateur genealogist at the time and she thought Robin's case was a good candidate for her studies. Especially since there was unidentified DNA left behind at the crime scene. I mean, this is the perfect case for a modern day DNA solve. So with permission, she submitted that DNA over to a company called Parabon Nanolabs. Talked about them before. They uploaded it to their databases to see if there was anyone out there who had willingly submitted DNA to Robin's case. But they didn't. So they decided to take a look at Robin's case to see if there was anyone out there who had willingly submitted a case of DNA with the unknown assailant. That way, Liz could build out a family tree and hopefully find a relative who might have lived in Robin's area at the time, maybe had a connection to Robin. Now, unfortunately, Parabon didn't have high hopes that this process would work. They said the chances of solving her case this way were basically zero. And if you're wondering, okay, why? It was because when they ran this DNA, they found over 50,000 potential cousins. Oh my gosh. Okay. I mean, they have matches first, second, fourth, fifth, sixth cousins. That means Liz would basically be trying to put together a family tree of 1,500 people and then see if any of them had a connection to Robin. They're like, listen, this is going to take you a long time. We almost have too much DNA to work with. A needle in a haystack. What they did learn from that, though, was the suspect's ethnicity. Eastern European, about 25% Irish, and a combo of English, Italian, and Scandinavian. Unfortunately, that's all they really had to work off of for a while. That was until 2021 when Parabon reached out about using a new tool to help potentially identify the suspect in Robin's case. It's actually a really cool tool called DNA phenotyping. If you don't know what that is, I'm going to explain it as best I can. Basically, it works like this. By analyzing a person's DNA, scientists can now predict what someone might actually look like. They can use the DNA to determine if their skin is fair or dark. Are their eyes likely blue or brown? Do they have a wider jaw, a narrow nose? Are their eyes set close together? You can use the DNA to determine if someone is fair or dark. If they have a wide jaw, a narrow nose, or a wide nose, you can use the DNA to determine if someone is fair or dark. If they have a wide jaw, a narrow nose, you can use the DNA to determine if someone is fair or dark. If they have a wide jaw, a narrow nose, , You can use the DNA to determine if someone is fair or dark. If they have a wide jaw, a narrow nose, She finds that both of those matches actually do have a relative in common. in. It's a guy who lived in Virginia during the time of the murder. Holy crap. They're getting closer. She figures out he would have been in his 20s at the time, was now a 52-year-old man named Stefan Smirk. So when she hands this name over to detectives and they begin looking into the guy, he doesn't raise any immediate red flags. He was a family man who had two kids in high school in Neskuna, New York. He was a computer programmer who married a defense attorney. He had zero criminal record. He didn't even have a speeding ticket attached to his name. But there were a few things that interested detectives, especially as they looked deeper into his background. Back in November of 1994, the time of the murder, he was stationed at an army base 10 miles from Robin's home called Fort Myer in Arlington, Virginia. And when they find a copy of his high school yearbook, they realize that it is not too far off from the phenotype sketch that was made of the suspect. So basically, it's enough for cold case detectives to be like, okay, on paper, he doesn't seem like our guy, but he kind of looks like the sketch and he was in the area and the DNA is potential. So we're going to go talk to him. I think it's, I mean, I guess there was no other way. At this point that she had to go through all of that. Yeah. Cause like his DNA isn't the one in the system. We need, this is when you need to chat GPT and all that stuff. I mean, I'm sure it's more automated now, right? It has to be like, it has to be able to narrow down potential matches. Well, and I think as someone gets the family trees more connected, you're no longer doing that work because not only is she like sorting through people, she's building family trees. She's doing genealogy. She's crazy. That's so much fun. That's so much work. So in September of 2023, detectives take a trip North to knock on Stefan's door. And remember it had been almost 29 years since Robin's murder. Oh my gosh. So they're like, if he didn't do this, he's probably not going to be able to tell us what he was doing that Friday night. But their point of this trip is not even really to ask. They just want to collect a sample of his DNA because they're like, we just want to compare it, cross it off our list, know if she was on, or if we need to keep going through these potential matches. And that's pretty much what happens, sort of. So they get to Stefan's house. They tell him, hey, we're investigating a cold case from the 90s. He doesn't really seem phased by it. And he does willingly offer up a cheek swab. In fact, after inviting them in, he doesn't really ask them any questions. He's not like, okay, what's the cold case? Who's the victim? He's just chill. He shows zero interest. He's like, you want my DNA for this? They're like, yeah. He's like, okay. And the police are in and out within a matter of minutes. It's a bit strange because they're like, why didn't he ask any questions? But they're also like, if he has nothing to do with it and he knows he's innocent, maybe he doesn't care, take my DNA. I've never done anything wrong. It's so hard. No matter what you do these days, it's like, oh, that's suspicious. Right. So they head back to the hotel that they're staying in, expecting to have a quiet night and return home in the morning to test the DNA. But that doesn't happen. A few hours later, one of the detectives actually gets a phone call and it's from Stefan. He says, hey, I'm actually at the police department. I'm trying to turn myself in, but the doors are locked. And this detective's like, what? What are you turning yourself in for? And Stefan's like, murder? This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are plenty of reasons we put off getting support. And for a lot of people, cost is one of them. With BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a few others worth questioning too. Women inherit a lot of unwritten rules. Be ambitious, but not intimidating. Be there for everyone, but still make time for yourself. Have it all together, but don't look like you're trying too hard. And I have definitely fallen into all of these traps. But if you have been wanting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. If you don't have insurance or don't live in the United States, you can still get 10% off your first month. And Peyton and I are big advocates for therapy. Give it a try. Life can be crazy. There's a lot going on. Like we were talking about, sometimes it feels like you need to have everything figured out. You don't. Go talk to someone. Go see what's going on. Visit betterhelp.com slash husband to explore your payment options. That's betterhelp.com slash husband. I used to think a camera or video doorbell was home security. And then I realized those can only record a break-in. They literally can't stop one. And that is the difference with SimpliSafe. When an intruder steps onto your property, SimpliSafe's AI-powered cameras detect the threat and alert a live US-based agent, who can then intervene to stop them before they even get into your door. Because it's not my house or valuables that I'm even worried about. It's a stranger getting anywhere close to the people I love. And I'm obviously taking this way more seriously now, which I already did, but now more than ever with a baby on the way. Like I said, unlike traditional security cameras that only alert you after a break-in, SimpliSafe is built to stop it before it starts. And they have so many different options if you haven't got on and checked it out. Just do it, guys. If you've been waiting for a sign to get some security, this is it. Join the more than 6 million people who entrust SimpliSafe with their home security. Right now, save 60% off with professional monitoring when you visit SimpliSafe.com slash husband. That is an amazing code, guys. 60% off. That is SimpliSafe.com slash husband. And when you order, again, just please let them know Murder With My Husband sent you. Write it in the checkout survey. It just lets them know we sent you and it helps support the show. SimpliSafe, ahead of crime and in real time. Now, keep in mind, these detectives have traveled up from Virginia. This is not their jurisdiction. Oh, my gosh. This is insane. So the detectives are like, hey, what station are you at? We'll come meet you. But in the meantime, you should probably hang up and call 911 and just notify the local authorities as well, because this is not our jurisdiction. So we're also going to need police from here. And that's what Stefan does. He calls 911. He's like, hey, I'm at the police station trying to turn myself in for a cold case. 911, the address of your emergency. I'm actually here to turn myself in for a cold case crime. You're here to turn yourself in? Well, they collected DNA. So what's your last name? But at this point, detectives are wondering, why is he doing this? Like, it's not like he even acted scared. This is too easy. This is too easy. We haven't even run the DNA sample yet. He probably just realized as soon as they took the DNA, he's like, it was only a matter of time. So they're kind of like, is this real? What's going on? They are actually very careful about how they phrase their questions to him once he's in the interrogation room, because they want him to share most of the details to see if he's really telling the truth, get a pretty strong case. So they're going to go in. They're not going to suggest, like you sometimes see. They're really, really going to hold back so that there is no coerced confession. This was willingly given, and we have proof because look at all of the details he gave that we did not offer up. So here's what he tells them. Back on November 20th, 1994, Stefan was a 22-year-old soldier at Fort Worth in Arlington. He was drinking that night with a friend and had taken some ephedrine. This is basically a strong cold medicine. And he said he took it and then he just decided in his head, you know what? I'm going to kill somebody tonight. He drove around the Lawrence's neighborhood and eventually picked out Robin's house. Like they think it was drug induced? Well, I mean, it's only cold medicine. Yeah. I mean, he's a little high, but he's not out of his mind tripping. Yeah. So he tells police it was completely random. Like Robin's house was a completely random pick. He had no idea who lived there or who he was going to kill once he got inside, which is so risky for a first time kill too. He told the police, quote, there could have been 50 people in that house. I don't know. They could have all had guns and shot me dead. I just honestly wasn't even thinking about it. Stefan said an impulse had just come over him that he couldn't control. So he entered the house from the back wearing a ski mask and leather gloves, began walking through the house. And that's when he found Robin in her bed. She got down on her knees and started begging for her life. Oh, that's so awful. But Stefan, who was a soldier who didn't even have a speeding ticket, who had never been in trouble before, showed her no mercy. He stabbed her close to 50 times using what he called his combat training that he had been learning. And he also said he noticed that there was a baby, sleep in one of the bedrooms and he chose to do nothing. he didn't make a anonymous 911 call to make sure that that baby got rescued he didn't attack the baby he fled into the night and let two-year-old nicole fend for herself for the next two days until her mother's body was discovered but stefan shared something else that gave detectives confirmation said robin had fought back hard this is something they already knew about the case but he even showed them a scar from that attack where robin had actually clawed him on the face so deep it scarred and when detectives asked okay what did you do in the house like where did you go did you go into the bathroom and use a towel to try and clean up because this is where they found his blood he said he couldn't remember but it was pretty possible that he did seeing how bad the damage was on his body from her fighting he very easily could have gone into the bathroom and used it to clean up the house but he didn't do that he said he couldn't remember but it was pretty to try to like clean it up so after he left that night stefan said he tossed the murder weapon into the chesapeake bay and headed back to the base as if nothing had happened he took a shower he tossed his bloody clothes in the dumpster and then never looked back and never killed again even when talking about it right now though with police stefan showed very little remorse yeah like is he a psychopath well he told detectives he's like i don't because he has feelings because he well he's like i don't really feel bad for the family i don't know them i didn't know her she was a completely random stranger yeah that's quite a psychopath he said i actually like the only feelings i have about this crime are for my own sake because he said i knew like one day my personal freedom could be affected by it and that's the only like feeling i've had about it is oh okay so for sure he's got some issues going on so no stefan didn't turn himself into police because he felt guilty like i finally got caught this has been weighing on my shoulders police showed up it actually kind of felt good to get this off my chest like i did it i'm here no that is not what happened it was because he knew they had his dna and he was like i mean they're gonna get me he had gone on to live the next 29 years blending in with society he received awards for his service in the military holy crap he went to rehab he got sober he got married he had two kids he went back to school oh my god he got married he had two kids he went back to school he got married he got married he bought a home he worked a job with a six-figure salary he stole robin's future and then instead went on to build his own and never kill again that's disgusting honestly and one of the most disturbing parts of that interview though was what he said about this monster inside of him because detectives are like hey so this isn't really adding up on paper like this is pretty unusual for what we see and he's saying i just have this monster in me like there's a monster inside of me and they're like okay and he says quote i marry kids i honestly believe that if it wasn't for my wife and my kids i probably wouldn't be a serial killer so i mean honestly similar to what i said and if the chance presented itself again he would have done it but he just went a different direction in his life and never did it again oh my gosh it's so but he admits fully in this interview like it's in me like i i could still do it like i could have been a serial killer i just never never did you imagine being his wife or his kids no like what so after this confession stefan was arrested and charged with first degree murder for killing robin lawrence and of course the police's first call was to robin's family i can't imagine how after 29 years this call felt to them like you just rewoke yeah you just awoke something in them that they had probably spent years trying to find out what was going on and find somewhere to put and then you but then they you know at least they have an answer but it's not at least because you just reopened a wound like it's just a yeah there's so many there's still going to be so many unanswered questions for them like why why did you do it yada yada yada well and i've heard so many different scenarios where families are happy to you know there's a i don't want to say happy but there's a piece of them that feels a little better knowing what happened there's families that are like i wish you never would have told me i had finally gotten to a place where i could live my life and also accept what had happened and now you've shaken it all up so some of robin's other family members had actually lived in new york not far from where stefan had spent the last few decades of his life they were literally living next to their family members killer and robin's niece lauren said some of her closest friends actually lived across the street from stefan and his family they had actually been by his house dozens of times this is her niece she had been by her aunt's killer's house dozens of times with no idea and while this might have been a huge coincidence there are other details that might not be for instance former fbi profiler mary o'toole says she doesn't think stefan chose robin at random that night despite what he said so that's what i was gonna say i was gonna say one i don't think this was random two i promise this wasn't the first time he's thought about killing he didn't just drink some medicine and go oh i want to kill someone no no he's been thinking this for years he's just lying to try to make himself look better because i mean that's what they do like peyton just said he obviously has no feelings for anyone else except himself yeah mary says she thinks he's just trying to like minimize it even though admitting to it and like admitting he's a monster he's also like not trying to be like oh i stalked her and then it's just crazy i did it and then i never did it again yeah she thinks he might have been actually watching robin for some time seeing how her family came and went and she thinks this mainly because ollie was out of the country on business when stefan attacked had he been in the home it's likely stefan wouldn't have stood a chance and he probably knew that so what are the odds that the husband is out of town he knows she's alone but the real nail in stefan's coffin was the results from his dna swab forensic testing found it was a fake DNA swab and it was a fake DNA swab and it was a fake DNA swab it was a match with the blood found on the washcloth in robin's bathroom in fact they said there was a one in seven million chance it wasn't his blood okay on april 15th 2024 a grand jury indicted stefan on first degree murder charges the family desperately wanted to see the case go to trial not just so that he would get the maximum sentence but because they wanted his face to be that he had done now unfortunately a trial didn't happen six months after the indictment stefan pleaded guilty to the charges and his attorney fought hard to get him a lighter sentence his attorney argued that back in the 90s stefan struggled a lot with alcohol and substance use disorders he believed the military would change some of that and then it didn't because the real issue was that stefan had undiagnosed bipolar disorder which he didn't realize until many years later and i just want to get it right off you know just bipolar disorder undiagnosed or diagnosed does not make someone a murderer and is not an excuse for a murder and that according to his attorney combined with the alcohol and the drugs he had taken that night was a dangerous weapon she also told the judge that stefan was dealing with diabetes and heart problems so any sentence could mean that he might die in prison when it came time for that sentencing hearing stefan smirk had almost no chance of getting out of prison no one on his side his children 17 and 20 years old had disowned him his wife had divorced him and meanwhile robin's family filled the courtroom with their love and support of her at one point stefan turned to them including robin's grown daughter nicole who he left that night and said all these years i have been a coward living with guilt shame and self-hatred it's my sincere hope that my arrest and subsequent incarceration brings some closure so complete 180 i just think that he's saying what he thinks people want to hear i just don't believe him i'm sorry he also well he's also at his sentencing hearing trying to act good in front of a judge yep he also apologized for the pain and suffering he caused the family and after all was said and done the judge gave stefan life behind bars with all but 70 years suspended basically a fancy way of saying 70 years and because the crime was committed he was able to get out of prison and he was able to get out of prison and he was 41 days before parole was abolished in the state of virginia the judge did allow him to be eligible for parole the eligibility will happen in 2037 when stefan is 65 years old which he already had 30 years of freedom like he lived a pretty good chunk of his life and he's already gonna be eligible for parole at 65 when robin doesn't get to finish her life he's already gonna be eligible that just feels a little light to me well i mean there's nothing they could have done because it wasn't abolished like it's where the laws were but i agree 100 that brings me back to a question i asked at the beginning of this episode and that is what makes a serial killer i mean if you're going by definition it's a number of kills but was stefan telling the truth when he said he was able to suppress this monster living inside of him all thanks to his family is that monster still there like he was able to suppress this monster living inside of him all thanks to his family is "That doesn't just go away 'cause you get caught. "Is it living dormant?" his family is no longer there to support him and he gets out on parole does he just give in to the monster that he already said was there and if it weren't for his family he would be a serial killer and now he doesn't have his family and could get out here's the thing i just don't there's a lot i don't believe i don't believe that he wouldn't have killed again before he died i don't believe that he wasn't looking at like child pornography or other crazy things i just don't i don't think you can kill someone and admit you're a you want to kill people and then just live a normal life that's just not that's not possible do you think he did kill and didn't get caught exactly 100 those are the other like there's so many unsolved cases i mean statements like i am a serial killer who only killed once should not be taken lightly if stefan smirk is released before his life is over does that give him another opportunity there's no way he is like there's no way that he gets out on parole because when someone claims their motive to kill was just simply to kill for enjoyment there's no money there's no hatred there's no emotion there's nothing that is a different kind of monster than the people we typically cover one that should be handled very carefully before releasing it back into the wild and that is the murder of robin lawrence i just before we go i just want to take a second to remember that robin's family lived so many years well her you know her mom died without even knowing what happened to her they lived so many years in this unknown and then just poured salt in the wound by it reopening and figuring out what had happened and hearing the details and then you know the daughter now can look at someone who left her there and i just want to have like a moment of thinking about them and love and grace and support for them even if we're not in person with them i think that this case brings up a lot of questions that we stumble upon in true crime especially when it comes to serial killers or people who kill out of enjoyment what's going on in the brain can there be reform and it's just like yeah i mean i don't know i'm pretty harsh when it comes to this and i think peyton and i might might have different opinions i don't know but i'm pretty harsh when it comes to this and it's it's kind of ironic because i see some people that get mad at me for having this opinion that's okay to each their own but i promise it would be a different scenario if someone killed someone in your family yeah no i'm just not yeah it's not something you can really for sure speak you don't kill people like i for me it's just a hard line no and ifs or buts you kill someone goodbye and it'll always be like that i don't care the scenario um like i said earlier i'm speaking out first degree and second degree murder um not necessarily talking about manslaughter or exceptions outside of crime outside of that i'm talking about cases specific to the one we just did i think it's important to remember people make mistakes every day and are ugly versions of themselves all the time and making an ugly choice because of many different reasons all these actual reasons going on in the human psyche that could affect people is very different than taking someone's life and that is an important distinction to understand and make all right guys thank you for listening to today's episode and we will see you next time with another one i love it i hate it goodbye you know that feeling when too many things fall through the cracks monday.com was built for that gap the ai work platform where people and agents work side by