Carol Burnett

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Welcome everyone to another episode of Good Hang. This is a very special one for me. We have comedy legend Carol Burnett. You know, Carol, the star creator, benevolent captain of the Carol Burnett Show, an incredible sketch show that changed comedy as we know it and influenced so many of us. An incredible actor in films such as The Four Seasons or the star turn as Ms. Hannigan and Annie. You may have seen Carol in Better Call Saul or Palm Royale, which is out right now. There's so many things that Carol has done. And, you know, I discovered Carol from my living room watching her show with my mom. And we're going to talk about so many things today. And, uh. You know what? Don't worry about what we're going to talk about. It's going to be so good. It's Carol. It's Carol Burnett. She's here and we can't believe it. So, before we get started, we always like to talk to someone who is a friend or a fan of our guest. And, um, you know, when you are, uh, when you start in sketch comedy and you're a woman of a certain age, you have learned everything from Carol. And today we have someone who is a super fan of Carol Burnett and, I think, a legend in her own right in sketch comedy. And that is. Our pod. Um. One of my many wives. The great Rachel Dratch. Rachel? How are your headphones doing? This episode of Good Hang is presented by Uber Eats. Big news. Aldi is now on Uber Eats. And you get 20% off your first grocery order with code NEWALDI26. So, whether your fridge is empty and you're too tired, or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry. Fill your fridge in just a few taps and get 20% off your first Aldi order on Uber Eats. For orders over $60, you can save up to $20. Ends February 28th, 2026. Terms apply. See app for details. Get up. What do you say? All I ever wanted was a really good hang. Oh! Ha ha ha! Rachel! Rachel! I want to show you. I want to show you how far I've come, Amy. What the lessons learned. The improvements made. Listeners, Rachel Dratch is holding up her untangled headphones. Well, I see a little tangle. There's a tiny kink. There we go. But you've always been into a tiny kink. Ha ha ha! Anyway, here you go. Ugh! Changes have been made. And I'm ready to go. You look great, Dratch. Thank you. I put on a little lipstick for you. You know I love you in a blue. I love my baby. Those baby blues in a baby blue. There you go. Dratch, you know, genuinely, when I was like, who can I talk to about the genius that is Carol Burnett? I thought about us because we grew up on Carol. Like, she feels, like, so influential. We, whether she knows it or not, and I hope to tell her today, it feels like she just influenced us so much. Yeah. I mean, when you said, when you asked the question of Carol Burnett, I got a little paralyzed because I was like, she's such an icon that I got, like, kind of, my brain got kind of tongue-tied. I'm like, what do you ask someone that's had such an influence, a pillar of comedy? Yeah. I was psyched to talk to you before we, before I talked to Carol, because I actually have been kind of stressed about that. How do I talk to an icon, you know? Do you remember when you first saw Carol? I mean, my first exposure was the Carol Burnett show. So I just remembered, like, that sort of merry band of players cracking each other up, which, of course, we did later on in her own way. But just that, like, the joy that they all seem to be having together and her also, like, the way she would talk to the audience afterwards, like, there was no sort of putting on airs about her. She just seemed, it seemed like it is, like, she is who she seems, like, just a fun, regular person. No, um, sort of, oh, a woman shouldn't be doing this. Like, which, I mean, we always get asked about women in comedy and, like, we always hate we get asked that way because I think when we were little, like, we just saw a funny person and we weren't thinking, like, and it's a girl. It was sort of just subliminal, whatever. Yeah. Unconscious, unconscious. Like, you're seeing, you're seeing Gilda Rounder and you're seeing John Belushi and you're not thinking, like, but she's a woman doing this. You're just, like, getting this sort of role model. You're getting the mother bird imprint on the baby bird. Yes. So Carol Burnett was definitely like that. Just the, um, the silliness, the joy in being silly, the joy in, like, making faces that make you look like you're not a lady. Yes. Like, acting like you're not a lady. Yes. Like, that all was just so joyous. Joyous and so good for girls to see. But again, I don't want to get all free to be you and me. No, but. Because it wasn't, like, who she was. A reference that probably nobody remembers. But they should. But they should. Look how free to be you and me. Children, you should know. You didn't know you were getting the message you were getting. It's free to be you. But it was, boys could have dolls, okay? Boys could have dolls. Yeah. Carol's show at times, as, like, the 70s came on to the scene, like, Carol's show was like, oh, like, they didn't have, that wasn't edgy. It wasn't edgy enough. Or something, you know, maybe someone could say, like, oh, it didn't have an edge. But now, like, with distance and time, I'm like, I think that's what was drawn, why I was so drawn to that show. Exactly what you just said. It looked like everyone was having fun. Like, I don't think, when we were growing up at times, I thought that comedy was actually going to be fun. I know that sounds stupid, but it was like, it felt like it had to have, yeah, it just had to have drama. Attached to it. And she was such an example of, like, comedy could be fun. And you could be a nice person doing it. I don't know. Does that make sense? Yeah. And just, like, full tilt clowns, you know, like, clowning around, you know? Like, when she did Once Upon a Mattress. Okay, let's talk about that. It seems like that might have been, what the hell do I know talking about this time period? But it seems like it might have been kind of really, like, freeing and groundbreaking. To have this woman getting to add all this physical comedy into this part that I'm sure, you know, it's like you're adding in so much physical comedy into that part. Physical comedy feels, until Carol, that it was kind of owned by the boys. Yeah. Did Carol feel like at the time she, there were other people, other women doing physical comedy like her? Get the answer, Nicola. Get the answer on that scoop. Also, you two have to compare notes. I'm sure you, have you told her that you also played Winifred in Burlington High School? Is she aware? Thank you for bringing that up. For people that didn't listen to the very highly popular Rachel Dratch episode, and Dratch, I got to tell you something. That episode was gangbusters. Are you getting a lot of good feedback? I'm getting a lot of good feedback about that, yes. Every time I hook in with you, I go viral. And that doesn't mean that you, you get sick with a fever. That doesn't mean I get a virus. I'm not going to avoid the obvious joke here, but yeah. We don't need more of that. We don't need more. No, every time I hook my wagon to you, things happen for the best. Well, thank you for hooking again. But for people who didn't, for the, I don't know, one or two people that didn't listen to that episode, where have you been? Yeah, no kidding. Living under a rock. Check it out. And then what you'll find is that Rachel Dratch and I talk about how we were both in productions of Once Upon a Mattress when we were young people in our schools. And Carol Burnett originated the part of Winifred on Broadway. I got to play that part in my high school. Rachel played the more- I played the boring part of Lady Larkin. So- Right. Who, who, in the, in the musical is pregnant. But when Rachel did it, because they were so young, they had to take that part out. And then- I had nothing to play so then it got even more boring but I know this is about Carol Burnett but I've got to work through this when we did our episode of Good Hang a lot of people commented on our obvious love for each other and friendship that was so obvious because we like laughed our way through the whole thing but um I was so I was kind of wondering since I'm talking to you like for her about her female friendships about you know does she have friends that are like her true blues from like before showbiz that she relies on or even now like her first of all like her like non-showbiz friends or her showbiz friends like who has you know been there along the way that is part of her journey that she has um kind of like you know the little support group with or something I love that because when I was lucky enough to do uh to do something for her 90th birthday celebration she watched the entire celebration holding hands with Julie Andrews they sat next to each other and held hands they call each other and I think I believe they call each other chum and I'll find out but I want to ask her about Julie because they have been friends for a long time and I think they've been friends for a long time and I think they've been since the 60s wow and I mean talk about our age like powerhouse like yeah sound of music Mary Poppins Carol Burnett and their friends come on chums you and I've always said that you are my Julie Andrews and you know I uh the other friendship that I want to talk to her about is her and Lucille Ball yes they were buddies and Lucille was you know know, kind of a mentor to her. She was probably in her forties when she met Carol in her twenties, but came backstage after, um, a performance of a once upon a mattress and said like, you got it kid. Wow. I know. I feel like there's a direct line between a lot of the women I know who worked with who love Carol, like Kristen Wiig, who works with Carol on Palm Royale and talked about on this podcast that she like burst into tears when she met her. You, me, Maya, Tina, like we all, Anna, we all, Molly, we all feel like we just watched Carol. Well, Amy, you're so good at talking to people like you've met her too, but I always admire how good you are at talking to the, the idols and icons. Well, I'm talking to one right now. I'm talking to one right now. And you're doing a great job. All right. Rachel Dratch, I know you're busy. Um, what are you having for dinner tonight before I let you go? Oh, I don't even know. Well, I know you've got some Broadway plans tonight. Enjoy your night in the town. New York city. Rachel is out and about. Yes, she is. Yes, she is. With new haircut, looking great. All right, bud. Thank you. Thank you for doing this Dratchy. All right. See ya. Love you. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Subaru. For me, going the extra mile means taking the long way home. If you're going to grab a car, you're going to need a car. If you're going to grab snacks and the 10 minute trip turns into a two hour journey, suddenly you're on a new street, then your ice cream is melted in the back. And you know, we've solved the meaning of life, but luckily in my Subaru hybrid, that's right. I have one and I love it. That extra mile is built right in with longer range and better fuel efficiency than ever before. The Subaru Forester hybrid and the Subaru Crosstrek hybrid. Great cars. I have them both. Love goes the extra mile. Visit Subaru.com slash hybrid to learn more. Hi, Carol. Love you. Love you. First of all, you look wonderful. Back at you, honey. I'm so happy to see you. I mean, I got the chance to see you in person, maybe longer than I'd like to admit, maybe like a year or two ago. I don't think I've seen you since. Well, I think you, I gave you an award. At the 90th. At the 90th. And then we did it when you presented me with an award. I got to, got to say nice things. Yeah. About you, which is the best. Yes, you did. Thank you. And I, I, I just, you know, I just want to get this out of the way, Carol. You are everything to me. You're the reason why I'm in comedy and you are. Oh, come on. A living legend. And it is really, uh, very emotional for me to get to talk to you. Oh, sweetheart. I'm thrilled that you're here and it means a lot to me. So thank you. You know what? If I'd never been born, you'd be doing what you're doing. So. Well, we'll never know. I guess not. We'll never know. But, and you know, um, the fact that I get to call you a friend and know you is amazing. It's definitely one of those things where sometimes you feel like your life is a dream. And I think we, you and I talked about this one time that, you know, life does feel like a dream. And I know that there's moments in your life where you look back at your life and say. You remember the movie, It's a Wonderful Life. And Jimmy Stewart has this angel named Clarence. The things that have happened to me where I feel I've got Clarence on my shoulder from the very early on in life. I remember I, we, uh, I lived with my grandmother in one room, uh, block north of Hollywood Boulevard. And, uh, we were poor. Our rent was a dollar a day, $30 a month. And sometimes we could hardly manage that. And so. I graduated from Hollywood High. And I desperately wanted to go to UCLA. And my grandmother said, forget it. You know, we can't afford the tuition. There's no way. Guess what? The tuition was UCLA in 1951. A yearly tuition? Yeah. Uh. Well, for a semester. Okay. For a semester. Yeah. A thousand dollars? Forty-three dollars. And we couldn't afford it. So we lived in this apartment building, right at our, a room face the lobby. So every morning I would check, uh, there was a, there was a pigeonhole mailboxes for all the apartments. And then I would look out and see if we had a little letter or something in this, in our slot. So I go, and there's a letter in this slot this one morning. I came out and I opened it up in our room. My name was typewritten on the envelope and there was a $50 bill. I do not, to this day, know where that came from. Nobody in the neighborhood that kind of money knew, had that. And that was my tuition. Wow. So that was Clarence, you know, and I got to go to UCLA. Then I got a catalog that said theater arts and I looked through that and there was a one called theater arts English. Mm-hmm. So I. I entered the theater arts department, but also at that time, if you were, uh, uh, a freshman, no matter what, if you want a theater, arts, film, theater, arts, theater, theater, arts, English, you had to take an acting course. Hmm. Do you remember the first thing you did in your acting class then? Yes. Oh, I was terrified. I'd never done anything. I'd never performed or anything. Wow. I thought, oh my God. And I came in late actually. And all the other kids were teamed up. And so I was the oddball and the, um, teacher gave me a couple of monologues to choose from, one from the country girl and one from a play called the mad woman of Shio. And I picked the mad woman because it was shorter and I got up and I, I, it didn't even occur to me to read the play. I had no, all I did was memorize it. And I said, I'm doing a scene from the mad woman of Chalet. I didn't know how to pronounce it. And I did. And she gave me a D minus. And she said, the only reason I'm not failing you is because you memorized it. Hmm. Sounds like a great teacher. Well, she was, she was right. She was right. And then I got into a one act that, uh, one of the students had written where I played a hillbilly woman. And of course we're from Arkansas and Texas. And all I remember is that there was one scene where I came out and I'm this. Over the hill, hillbilly woman. And I just said, I'm back. And everybody cracked up and laughed. Was that your first laugh you remember getting doing like performing? Yeah. And from then on, and then some of the other students would come up and some of the, she said, would you be in another one act? Would you be to all of a sudden? I thought, I kind of like this. Yeah. When I was talking to Kristen Wiig, who is here doing this, who I know you love. Yeah. She said that she kind of burst. She burst into tears when she met you. And I hate it when people look at me and cry. Why am I scaring them? When they point at you and cry. But what I was going to say is Kristen talked about how important it was to meet you. And, um, you talk about how luck played a big part in many moments in your life. But as you know, luck only comes when you're lucky. And I think that's what I'm going to get you so far. You kind of have to show up. You have to kind of nail it. You know which door to go through. Yes. And you have to kind of deliver. Yeah. And what I love about. your work, which continues even to this very moment, this very day, because you are working nonstop, is you are this beautiful combination of luck meets opportunity meets gratitude meets flexibility meets collaboration. I've watched and watched you and your career since I was a young person and how you welcome all of those things at once. You're never taking anything for granted. No, you don't. You can't. But people do. Then they're wrong. Yeah, right. But you also are so confident and skilled in what you know you can do. You show up for those lucky moments. And I want to talk about all of that stuff today. But, you know, I think sometimes with, I'm lucky to know a lot of nonagenarians, like my, you know, the 90s are the new 80s, babe. I like that. I just want to talk about the present moment for a second, because you are working. What does work feel like to you right now today? Like, how do you, how is work feeling? It feels the same. Yeah. I don't, you know, I'm 105 years old, but I still, like when we were doing, are doing Paul Morial and all that, I'm just as excited as I was when I came on and said, I'm back. You know, it's the same thing. And I was just, another thing, I was thrilled about Paul Morial was when Abe Sylvia called me, he was the creator and director and showrunner, all of that, two, three years ago, I guess it was. I said, we're going to do this show and we'd love you to be a part of it. I said, well, what's it about? And then he told me who was going to be in it. Yeah. Kristen Wiig, Allison Janney, Laura Dern. I said, I'm in. Don't, I don't even bother sending me a script. I want to work with these ladies. I want to lock eyeballs with them and get in the sandbox and play. Yeah. And it's, it was really, of course, the first few episodes I was in a coma. Yeah. You have it in your contract that you need to be able to sleep on set. Get up at five in the morning, go get made up, go right back to bed. Yeah. But you know, you, but, those women that you talk about, you know, have become your friends and you are, and, and I, and I feel grateful for this too, is that you're a living example of, it's just like, if one's lucky enough, they keep meeting new people and new friends. Absolutely. Absolutely. I felt that way. I was very lucky to do a Better Call Saul. That start, that was just before Paul Morial. Yeah. And I was a big fan of Breaking Bad and Vince Gilligan. And I watched Bob Odenkirk and all. Yeah. And Vince Gilligan said, we'd love you. Come on. I said, I'm there no matter what. So it was a wonderful, wonderful time for me too. You know, you're, you're one of those people that, you know, you've gone back and forth in your life between New York and LA. And I want to talk about both. And I bet that each block or section of the city holds a memory. What was Hollywood like when you were there? How would you describe it? You didn't even have to lock your doors. And every morning when I would go out, getting ready to go to school, I'd look up and there was a Hollywood, sign. And we used to climb the Hollywood sign. Wow. Yeah. The neighborhood kids and I, now you can't get near it. Sure. But we would fly kites or roller skate and they would say, yeah, I'm bored. Let's go climb the sign. So we don't care. And it was just, and it was kind of rickety then. They'd fixed it up now. And there were splinters and I would climb up and get splinters. It's a wonder we didn't break our neck. And then the O's were my favorite. And I would just hang over the O's. And I would just hang over the O's and say, hello, Hollywood. Hello. And then we'd do the Tarzan yell and all of that. And also growing up like that, we played. Yeah. We went out and played until it was time to go in for supper. Yeah. And no one knew where you were. I'd hear my grandma say, Carol, come on. And we'd come in. And I'd say, I'm going out and play now after school. You spoke about your grandmother who was instrumental in your life and how you would go to the movies together. Yeah. So take us to that. What were you watching? Who were you seeing on the screen? Well, we would go to the second runs because they were cheaper than going. If you went to a first run, it was a lot more money, like a quarter, you know? And so the second runs, and there would be double features. So we would see, we would go, one, two, three, four, maybe six movies a week. Wow. And that was in the forties and Betty Grable and Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland and Tyrone Power and all of those, which maybe none of the people listening know those people. Anyway, they were my favorites. Yeah. And Linda Darnell was a beautiful woman. She's not as well known today as. You know what? I don't know Linda Darnell. Oh. I have to tell you. My grandmother and I, you know, we would go and hang over the ropes when there would be a premiere on Hollywood Boulevard and to watch the movie stars come in, right? So I'm nine years old and Nanny is standing there and the ropes are holding all of us back. And coming, walking up by us was Linda Darnell. I got to look her up while you talk about her. Okay. And I grabbed her by the sleeve and said, Linda, Linda, give this little girl your autograph. She just loves you. She did that. And Linda Darnell was so sweet. And I'm looking at her and she said, okay, dear. And I gave her my book and I was shaking. And she said, what's your name? And I told her, and I'm looking at this gorgeous. And I realized her nostrils didn't match. Okay. Why? What happened? It was just like a millimeter off. And that was the only flaw. And suddenly you realize nothing is what it seems. Let me see your nostrils. Look up. Our faces are different when you put, they're different. Symmetry is not my strong, my strong point. I don't think it is for anybody, you know, but I, but I remember that so clearly. You remember that so clearly. Oh my gosh. Who else do you remember? Yeah. Who else did you have in that autograph book? Oh, gosh. I had Betty Grable. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. She, Linda is so pretty. I'm looking her up right now. She proves my theory that the more far apart your eyes are, her eyes are very far apart. Oh, you're looking at her. Yeah. She proves my theory that if your eyes are far apart, you're very beautiful. And especially if they don't cross. And I remember going, we would go to the grandma's Chinese where they have the courtyard with everybody's handprints and footprints and so forth. And I remember putting my handprints into Betty Grable's handprints. And just a few months ago, I got my handprints after all these years after, you know, and I remember putting my, and I'm wondering, will somebody someday put their handprints on mine? You know, wouldn't that be kind of wild? Yeah. But I, yeah. So cool. Is it, I mean, is it, I feel I did have a fairy godmother. Yeah, Clarence. Betty Grable was one of my first guests on my show. Whoa. Did you tell her the story of? Oh, yeah. What was she like? Adorable. Very funny. Yeah. Betty was on the show as a guest. And so was Martha Ray, who was one of the funniest women ever. She was very bawdy and loud. And she and Betty had worked together and they were good friends. So it was, for me, it was a great experience. And Betty, my God, I'd grown up watching Betty Grable, watching Martha Ray. I was all thrilled. So now we're rehearsing. Now, Betty had a thing about Coca-Cola. She had to drink Coca-Cola all the time. So what would happen was she would be going, constantly. I mean, really, really loud. She just loved Coca-Cola. So we're in the wings. Right. And we're doing the show. And Betty and Martha and I are ready for our cue to go out. And Betty took one and did again. And Martha Ray said, Oh, for God's sakes, Betty, why don't you just fart and save your teeth? Betty, I mean, if you talk a lot, I want to talk to you about because you talk a lot about people coming through your show, the Carol Burnett show. I mean, when you host a show, I know that from SNL and, and in some ways from parks, when you host a show and people come through, you're the host, you have to, you're hosting the show, but you're also hosting the guests. And you're watching all the different ways that people work. But I mean, it was a joy. Yeah. In fact, in 11 years, we didn't have one problem. broadened person yeah that we dealt with at all everybody was happy to be on and another thing that i always loved doing was giving like if we had cheetah rivera or juliet prowse or uh dancers and singers on the show we also would try to put them in a sketch yeah so that they because if they went on another show the other shows they would just do their bit and that would be it or they may be in a finale also but we would put gwen verdon in a sketch i even did a sketch with ray charles wow what was the sketch it was a piano bar and i was a lady who was a little bit in her cups very sad about herself because it was her birthday and nobody cared you know and i was and so now i'm talking to ray who was at the piano and we have this lovely you know and i was and so now i'm talking to ray who was at the piano and we have this lovely little scene yeah about the fact that i'm so sad and nobody and he then talks is very sweet encourages me and he says come over here and sit down and then we sang together you know and he said i just i just love it he said that nobody has ever asked me to do lines before wow so he really he loved it wow okay when you when you were in your 20s in new york yeah well first of all what was it late it was the 50s 50s did mad men get it right like was that was that was i lived at the rehearsal club yeah talk about the rehearsal club well um i got i got a chance to go to new york i a benefactor lent me the money to go i'd never been any further east in texas or california and i remember my grandmother saying you can't go to you she said your blood's too thin you'll be dead in a week so my grandmother said you can't go to you she said your blood's too thin you'll be dead in a week much for that you know good thank you yeah so anyway i i said i'm going to new york i have this money i'm going and i was so stupid and naive how old were you 21 21 yeah i didn't know where i was going to stay right you just showed up i said we'll figure it out it's like the movies you know now i'm in a broadway show so i'm on the uh airplane and i see an ad for the algonquin hotel well i think i'll go there and i had something like 300 some odd dollars left and so it was raining i had a cardboard suitcase and got up to the algonquin and i checked in and he said that would be nine dollars you know and i said for the week he said no for the night nine dollars for but okay so i gave the nine dollars and i went up to this room and i'm there and i called nanny my mother and she said come home i said i just got here you know and she anyway i hung up and i thought what am i gonna do i'm in new york and the next morning i had one phone number that i could call and it was a girl who had gone to ucla and was ahead of me and uh she went to uh came to new york and she left her phone number with a bunch of us in case we ever got to new york to give her a call so i had that was the one number i had and i called her her name was eleanor eb and uh the phone rang and i said hello i said uh is eleanor eb there and they said wait a minute ellie ellie and i'm hearing all this noise going on people singing and stuff and she gets on the phone hello i said ellie it's carol you're here where are you i said the algonquin she said get out of it are you crazy she said come up here gave me the address i left i got bing bong i'm it's a four stories and i had no idea but i rang the doorbell some some gal opened the door she said what i said i'm here to see eleanor eb hello ellie and i go in and there's a parlor and a bunch of stairs going up to the various floors and people are dancing and singing and playing the piano and all women all women and it was called the rehearsal club and maybe about 25 women live there and ellie said maybe we can get you uh a way to stay here yeah and she said i'll introduce you to the house mother miss carlton and miss carlton came she said well you're in luck we have one cot available and it was 18 a week room and board it was sponsored by a lot of rich new york ladies which made it possible for that to be so inexpensive cool and she said this is a transit room so it's it's where we put new people and uh you'll have four roommates there'll be five of you and she said um there are rules no men be on the parlor uh and they can't stay past 10 o'clock or or midnight on weekends you cannot spend the night you have to be in yeah it was very very strict uh and you have to be pursuing a career in the theater you are allowed to take a part-time job to help pay for the rent wow but you you must like go on auditions and you know and so forth and so on so it was very it's making me think of the lucille ball stage door that's what it was written about stage it was about the rehearsal club that was it i was just gonna absolutely how funny that was it also it's the first time i had a bed i slept on the couch for 21 years my grandmother slept on the couch for 21 years and i slept on the couch for 21 years on the murphy bed so i have a bed carol you know it makes me ask you want to ask you was there ever a job that made you feel secure financially secure only when i got uh on the gary moore show and once upon a mattress okay because once upon a mattress felt like a secure like okay i've got a gig every week and i'm gonna be okay and i'm gonna be able to take care of my family right and were you taking care of your family then yeah yeah yeah so once upon a mattress is a broadway show that you open you opened that show you were the original winifred right yeah okay so we've talked about it on this podcast that particular uh show and i know i've shared this with you because i got to be winifred in my high school production of once upon a mattress and listen to your cast recording to try to learn the part and rachel dratch the great rachel dratch from snl also was in once upon a mattress she jokes that she was the boring part the lady loved it and she was the boring part of the show and she was the boring part of the show right yeah um and um and i spoke to her earlier today about you give her my i will and we we talked about how influential you were to us um but when when you were doing once upon a mattress um you were getting like finally getting paid to be an actor eighty dollars a week well what happened actually again clarence yeah i had been auditioning for uh before i got mattress uh when i left ucla to go to new york all my friends said what are you going to do i said i'm going to go to new york and i'm going to be in a show directed by george abbott now george abbott was mr broadway he he directed pajama game damn he was the musical director of all time and i said that i'm going to be okay but that's what i'm talking about that's not clarence that's carol well hold on though wait this is weird but that's manifesting right you put it out there in the universe that's right so what happened was uh you know i was in new york for a while and then i got a chance to audition for a re they were going to reissue that redo a show called babes in arms that rogers and hammerstein or heart wrote and they were going to open it in florida and bring it to broadway i auditioned and it looked like i was going to get the part of the girl who sings johnny one note i was so excited and everything and then and the director wanted me but then they said you know carol we're going to go for someone who's got a name i went oh so i hung up the phone swear to god i hung up the phone two minutes later the phone rang and it was jean eckhart who was producing a show called once upon a mattress and she said can you come down now to the phoenix theater and audition for george abbott wow and i rejection is god's protection carol took the subway down i sang what i had to do do you remember what you sang do you remember your audition song i sang everybody loves to take a bow was it's from a show called hazel flag i got back the phone was ringing they said you got the part and had i gotten babes in arms which never left florida i wouldn't have had mattresses isn't it weird how when you look at life and you think if just the slightest thing moved here and the slightest thing some of the best things happen when you're disappointed at first that's right you look back and say you know if that hadn't happened this would that's right this episode is brought to you by hilton the official hotel partner of the big 10 every college football weekend fired up fans hit the road with their lucky shirts pre-game rituals with friends and family and oddly specific traditions good thing hilton's unmatched hospitality is ready know not to wash your lucky jersey, they'll find you a room with your favorite player's number and prepare your must-have pre-game waffles. 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You can get that same golden juicy seasoned to perfection taste at the deli with the fryer's deep fried turkey breast. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905. When you were doing Once Upon a Mattress, we spoke, we mentioned Lucy, Lucille Ball, but. Can you tell everyone that story? I know you've told it before, but to me, you know, you were very kind to talk and always talk about Lucy whenever you get a chance to, but you were very kind to talk about her in a documentary that I did. And you told this story, which I think is not only so indicative of how wonderful and supportive a person she was, but how she saw in you something very, very special that we all eventually came to know. I remember we opened in May of 1959 and got great reviews. And so it was like, wow, you know, I was thrilled. And the second night, there was a buzz backstage and everything. And I said, what is it? Lucy's in the audience. I was more frightened. Oh, yeah. That she was, that I was opening night. Oh, I would. What year was this? 1959. So I remember. I was stupid. I peeked through and I saw this orange hair in the second row. And I thought, oh my God. Anyway, I got through the show and she wanted to come backstage. And it was off-Broadway theater and it was really funky, you know, and I had, I had a couch where the coil was sticking up. Yeah. And it was kind of. Anyway, you know, and it was Lucille Ball. Come in, you know. And she headed for the couch and I said, oh, look, she said, no, I see. You know, so she sat on the right end of the couch and, well, God, 20, 25 minutes. And she called me kid. She was 22 years older. And she, as she was leaving, she said, kid, if you ever need me for anything, you give me a call. Wow. You know, so actually for about four years later, I was working and doing stuff and CBS. And CBS wanted me to do an hour long special, variety special, if I could get a major guest star. So the producer said, you got to call Lucy. I said, I don't want to bother her. All she can do is say, I'd love to, kid, but I'm busy, you know. So I got up the nerve and I called her. Hey, kid, you're doing great. What's happening? I went, I'm doing a show. And I know you're busy. I was, and she said, I'm doing a show. And I was, and she said, I'm doing a show. And I was, and she said, hold on. When do you want me? She's such a badass. So she did the show. We, and we did it together. Yeah. I mean, I think about Lucy a lot when, when, um, she, she was very ahead of her time. And also we talked about this when we were, when we talked about her together, she, you know, she was producing and running shows, even though she wasn't getting the credit, just like you were producing your show. She was so ahead of her time. Well, there's a story. There's a story. She, uh, when she did my show, you know, we were, we had a lot of fun together and we were, uh, had a dinner break. So we went across the way to the farmer's market, you know, and, uh, she's knocking back a couple of whiskey sours. And she says, you know, kid, because my husband at the time, Joe was producing our show, you know, and I, he just did it. And, uh, she said, you're, you're very fortunate. You've got Joe to do it for you. She said, cause when I was married to the Cuban, she said, she said, Desi did everything. Yeah. He invented the three camera system. A lot of people don't know. He said he took care of the scripts. He took care of the costumes. He took care of the lighting. All I had to do was come in and be silly Lucy on Monday and do the show. Then we got a divorce. She said, now I know. I have to be like Desi. I got to get up. And she said, I, I, I didn't know what, so they had a script reading of the new Lucy show. And she said, it was terrible. It was terrible. And I thought Desi wasn't here to fix it. You know, she says, I got called lunch. She said, and I went back and I figured I have to be strong. I have to be confronted, but still, not afraid, you know? So she went back and she said, and I told them in no uncertain terms of writing what they had to do, how to fix it. I was, I was just really tough. And then she took another little drink. She said, and kid, that's when they put the S on the end of my last name. Yeah. And so we, every birthday on my birthday, she would send me flowers. Happy birthday, kid. Yeah. And, uh, this one morning I got up, it was my birthday and she had died that day on my birthday. And I got the flowers that afternoon. Happy birthday, kid. Do you believe in, in ghosts or spirits? I don't not believe in them. Yeah. Like, do you feel like you've ever been visited by? Lucy? Yeah, by Lucy. Don't you feel like she'd be a funny ghost? Oh, hello. Yeah, that was, you know, Lucy, if you're here, we'd get our Ouija board out. But yeah, I mean, and, and she, and, and Carol, you're like that for so many people. I mean, I feel like you're a mentor to so many women and you, you, like you said, you got things handed to you and you hand it down, you pass it on. The spirit of that felt like it was embedded in the Carol Burnett show because, so you were skipping a lot, but obviously you go to, a New York, you're, you're in Broadway, you, Gary Moore. And do you feel like, I mean, you were physical in a way back then and way back and way, and a way now, I mean, first of all, you look terrific. Well, thank you. You're 92. Yeah. I mean, you're, you're just. Well, thank you. I mean, physically your body has, has been so good to you. You have a command of your body and always have. And it's like, and I guess. One of the questions that Rachel Dratch and I, Rachel had that we were talking about is this idea of physical comedy, which was. I love doing it. Yeah. When you would do the show, would you do warmups, like physical warmups? Like, would you stretch? Like before the show was about to start. No, I was very athletic as a kid. I would roller skate. I would do all kinds of, climb the sign. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was quite, and I could run like the wind. I was very fast. Well, you have those legs, Carol. Well, they're the last things to go. Babe, you got, I mean, what I would give for long legs. You have the best legs. Thank you. You probably could have been a long distance runner. Well, when I was in junior high school, my physical aid teacher, cause I could run. She sent a letter home to my grandmother saying, could Carol stay after school and I could be coaching her? And my grandmother said, no, running is bad for the heart. Whatever that means. That was, that was definitely back then when every, everyone was a little scared of everything. Of everything. Yeah, running is bad for the heart. Yeah, like she said when I went to New York, you know. Yeah, yeah. You'll be dead in a week. Your blood's too thin. Yeah, so physically. And also, Carol, do you feel like you have a thing that happens, because you've done a lot of live stuff, where when there's something that's a little wrong, you know, when something's going a little wrong, there's like a little fun electricity where you get excited? Okay, now what am I going to do? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You've always had that? Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. We were accused a lot of breaking up. So on your show, there would be people, you guys would laugh. Yeah, but out of 270-some-odd shows, I can't, there was, in fact, I kind of looked at stuff, because it was usually Conway who was after Harvey to break him up. I don't think we, more than 15 times. Out of 270. But people remember that. Oh, yeah. Because it was so delicious. It was. But then people say, well, they shouldn't have done that. That kind of fun, goof around thing. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's, that just goes to show, I think, what I felt watching, even from, you know. It was a family. It was a family. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was 10 years that you made that show together? 11. I decided I wanted to quit after 11. Do you remember the last moment of the last show? Well, yeah, it was when I sat on the bucket as the charwoman, and then I just talked about how we were going to not come back, you know. And, yeah, I cried. Yeah. It was bittersweet. Yeah. But it was time. Yeah. And when, and the last thing I'll say about how important that show was to me is you, and I know you've spoken about how it was a section that at first you thought, I'm not sure why I'm doing this. But do you watch your old stuff? Do you watch clips of yourself? I'm not like Norma Desmond. You don't? You're not in your bedroom all day watching old clips of yourself? We had faces then. But you must, every once in a while, stumble across something that comes, your phone must know who you are. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, actually, when I wrote my last book was about doing the show. So I had to watch a lot to, you know. Yeah. I went fast through some of them, and some of the sketches, oh, God, they were terrible. And some were wonderful, you know, but I hadn't remembered a lot, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you, and do you watch comedy now? Like, well, I asked my guests this. Not really. Yeah. Do you watch anything now that you're liking, or? I watch TCM. Turner Classic Movies. I go and visit all the people that I loved when I was growing up, you know. Who did you, comedically, who did you love growing up? Who made you laugh? Oh, growing up comedically. Who would you visit right now if you could on TCM? Carol Lombard. Now, you know, she was, that's who my mother named me after, actually. She was a beautiful, comedic actress, and could really, you know, with a turn of a twist, this, she was, and that's the movies, you know. Comedically, I kind of fashioned my show, not only after Gary, but after Sid Caesar. And Sonny and Cher were in the same studio? They were in the same studio as you, right? They were next door. Do you and Cher hang out? No. I'd like to. Did you guys ever hang out? Not really. No, but we know each other. We're friends. Yeah. Did you watch their show when it was? Oh, yeah. And you snuck over there? And many times, our studios were joined by the ladies' room and men's room. So, if there was a break, or I had, I'd go through the ladies' room and watch them rehearse something. And sometimes, like, she and Sonny, and I'd go through the ladies' room, and I'd go through the ladies' room, and I'd go through the ladies' room. And even separately, sometimes, just walk on while I was doing questions and answers. Oh, fun. And we'd get around. You know, it was great fun. Oh, that's so fun. I mean— She's lovely. She is lovely. Yeah. I mean, I don't know her. We just don't run around in the same circle. She just seems cool. She's cool. Cher, if you're listening, we love you. She should come on this show. You heard it here first, Cher. Yeah. Yeah. Carol says— Oh, she'd be a great guest. I'd love to have her on. What's your sign, Carol? Hmm? What's your sign? A Taurus. Of course. Earth sign. What does that mean? Well, I know I'm a bull. You're a bull, but you're an earth sign. I'm a Virgo. Tina's a Taurus. You know, somebody's got to get this stuff done. Somebody's got to get stuff done. Taurans. And again, I know nothing about astrology. Yeah. Oh, well, you know who else is Taurus? Is Shirley MacLaine and Barbra Streisand. They have the same birthday. They—and you heard it here. Carol thinks you guys should come on this podcast, too. I think so. One of the most special moments of doing your wonderful special that you and Brian produced for your birthday a couple years ago. Number one, it was like the first time I had been out since COVID. It was like, yay. But also, you and Julie Andrews were together, and you held hands during a lot of that and sat next to each other. My chum. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us when you first met Julie and how important a friend she is to you. I was doing Mattress, and she was in Camelot. So she was a queen and I was a princess. And some friends, mutual friends, said you two ought to meet because there's a similarity there. And later on, Julie and I even talked about, oh, come on. It's like a blind date. You ought to meet to see her. Anyway, she had a Sunday night off. She had a Sunday night off from Camelot, and we worked on Sunday night. So she came with her friend, and I had my friend there, the two gentlemen, just friends. And she watched Mattress, and we went out to a Chinese restaurant afterwards, and we never stopped talking to each other. The poor guys who were with us just sat there and listened. It was as if we were joined at the hip from the beginning. Always. Always. Always. Always. She taught me some dirty words. You would think I was. Because you're not a big. You don't love to swear. You don't like. Occasionally. Yeah. Occasionally. If I stub my toe, you know what comes out. And what kind of friend is Julie? My chum, we love each other. We are like, we're sisters. She, unfortunately. Not unfortunately, but for me, she lives on the East Coast. Yeah, so you kind of. So, yeah, we, and it was so sweet of her to come to the 90th to be with me. Where were you when The Sound of Music came out? Did you go to the premiere? Do you remember? The movie? Yeah. No, I didn't go to the premiere, but I remember she used to send me dirty limericks when she was filming. Perfect. She did. I wish I could remember it or even tell it. I think about, she did a whole parody on these are a few of my favorites. I mean, brilliant. So from it. So good. So good. Okay. And then you've worked with some, you've worked with amazing people. You have had an amazing life where you've gotten to play around with people who are kind of at the beginning of their careers, at the end of their careers. Was there anyone that you met as a young actor? I love to ask people this. Like a young, you met them at the beginning of your career. Yeah. It's Carol Burnett. Vicki! Vicki comes up. I hear footsteps. Vicki comes up to me. Yeah, hi, Marsha. It's not Marsha. Wow. It's Carol. I got it. Would you be okay if we come to the concert? Okay. So we went. Wow. She did the guitar. She played the kazoo. She did a couple of jokes, and she sang, and she won the contest. And she was like you, in peeking out and seeing, just like you saw Lucy, she's peeking out seeing Carol. Exactly. And so I was in touch with her. I said, we're going to be doing a little, well, I'll be in touch with you. We're going to be doing a little very famous show that's going to change comedy. And so we called her that summer, and she came and read, and there was another girl who'd had a lot of experience. Vicki was raw, but saw something. You saw something. You saw something. And today. And today, no network would let us do that. Hire an 18-year-old girl with no experience. That's right. They wouldn't allow it. I mean, Carol, we could talk forever about the biz, because the biz has changed so much. Yeah. I know. You know, you can't be happy being 92, but I'm glad I'm 92, because none of this would have happened today for me. Something might have happened, but it wouldn't be, there's no way we could do what we did before. Mm-hmm. 28-piece orchestra, you know, 65 to 70 costumes a week, two guest stars, a major, you know, rep company. Yeah. You know, and also, CBS left us alone. Right. I remember you telling me that. They really didn't give you any notes. They just said- There was one note in 11 years. Sorry, I'm laughing. I was doing a sketch where I was a nudist. And I'm behind a fence that says, keep out, and so I'm hanging over the fence, you know, bare-shouldered, and then my legs are bare with high-top tennis shoes, and Harvey's voiceover, and it's just, he's interviewing me, and it's a bunch of jokes about a nudist colony. I mean, it's no big deal. So, one of the lines was, so, what do you nudists do for entertainment, you know? I said, well, we have dances. We have dances every Saturday night. And he said, oh, and how do you nudist dance? And I said, very carefully. Well, the network, that was too blue. You have to change that line. Sometimes the change is even dirtier. Hello. So, what do you do? Well, we have dances every Saturday night. Well, how do you do, how do you dance? Cheek to cheek. Incredible. So much better. And they were like, that's it, that's better. That's good. Also, I don't have really any questions other than Annie. That's all, Carol. Just, Annie was so important. Annie remains so important, but was very important to Gen X women. Wow. I mean, we've. I've talked about it with Rachel Dratch and a bunch of people in this, like how big Annie was as a musical. It was all parts for it. We were that age. And then when the movie came out, we thought, okay, here comes the movie. And when you were Miss Hannigan, it was like I saw that character for the first time. I really understood her. Well, I went to John Huston at the beginning and I said, I think she should drink. It wasn't in the original. That she should have a little bit because it would only make sense that this woman, you know, and so he, that's a good idea there. That's the way he talked. Now, this is my favorite story about Annie. Tim Curry, Bernadette and I, you know, the villains. Yeah. Easy Street was going to be this big number. So being a Hollywood movie, they decided to change it from the original, where it's just the three in the orphanage. To this big, huge thing where they had this street open up. They had 400 dancers, singers, this people hanging out. And I even had a monkey grinder with a monkey in it. And Tim and Bernadette, it takes away from the number. They're just big Hollywood production. Huge. And, you know, took a week to film. And at that time, a million dollars or so. Okay. All right. So we wrapped. I flew back. I was at the time living in Honolulu. Bernadette flew back to New York, Tim, London. And I had always wanted more of a chin. I had a weak, weak chin. Now, there was an orthopedic surgeon, orthopedic, no, oral surgeon in Honolulu who said, oh, well, you know, I can just give it a little more. I said, I don't want to be Kirk Douglas. Right. I don't, I want, I love when it rains. I'd kind of like to feel it, you know. And I said, just like two or three millimeters. That's all. Just so I have a little more of a chin. Yeah. Okay. So no big deal. He fixed it and I had a little more of a chin. Okay. So about a month later, I get a call and it's Ray Starr, who's a producer. He said, we're going to reshoot the Easy Street number with just the three of you. I said, thank goodness. That's great. So now Tim and Bernadette and I are in her office, Hannah Guzzon and Mr. Houston. Says, well, what I think we'll do is we'll do, well, from when Carol ran into the closet to find Annie's locket, we'll pick it up when she comes out with the locket. I went to Mr. Houston, call me John, dear John. Two months ago, when I ran into the closet, I didn't have a chin. And now I'm coming out of the closet. With a chin. He thought for a minute. Thanks. Well, dear, just come out looking determined. Great direction. That's my favorite Annie story. I mean, I guess I want to end, Carol, by asking you, what is the best part about being in your 90s? That you're not 105. I'm not 105. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's yet to come. You're a kid. Yeah. Do you feel like a kid? A few years ago, a bunch of us were sitting around a table, said, how do you really feel inside? I said, 11%. And I remember, maybe that's because that's when I would climb the sign, when I would roller skate, when I would put my handprints with Betty Grable. I don't know. But something about being 11. Go figure. Well. I loved you when I was 11. So when I'm with you, I feel 11, too. So it's really nice. And, you know, I knew I was going to cry. I knew I was going to cry. And Jana said when I cried that she would start saying, cry, cry, cry. So, but I knew I would cry. But, Carol, that is that sense of play. That sense of play. Yeah. Like, you know, you. Especially young girls. Like, when they're kind of really magical at 11. They haven't quite become self-conscious. Maybe that's it. Yeah. They're not too smart-alecky yet. Yeah. That's why we're not talking about teenagers' good luck. Yeah. 11 is still very sweet. Yeah. When they're teenagers, you are so stupid. Yeah. Right. You have no idea what life is about. Yeah. Because you're too old. Totally. But there's that, like, tender moment before you become self-conscious, when you can still kind of, like, do your thing and not really worry about it. I remember. When my daughter, Carrie, who we lost a few years ago when she was five years old, we caught her in a fib. And I said, that's not good. So you have your dinner, and you go up to bed. And, you know, you can't stay up. You just go to. And then I went in afterwards, and she was upset. And I sat on her bed, and I'm looking at her, and I said, Sweetheart, you know we love you very much. But, you know, if you tell a little fib, then later on it might become bigger, and people don't want to be a liar. And she is looking at me like. And I'm thinking, I'm going to get a medal as a Mother of the Year. I am so. I could hear violins. I was so perfect. And she's looking at me. And finally I stopped. And I said, Are you okay, sweetheart? Do you want to say anything? She said, What, darling? She said. How many teeth do you have? Okay. Perfect, Carol. Perfect. Yes. May we all get back to that innocent time. Thank you so much for doing this. It means so much that you're here. I love you, Carol. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming. coming well thank you so much carol burnett um i cried and um look i don't want to i don't want this to become a thing okay i don't love crying and i'm i'm you know but if anyone's gonna get me there it's carol burnett i'm now technically using the good hang tissues that i have mocked other people for using and now well it got me so karma's a bitch um but uh for this polar plunge i guess just i you know um thank you carol you are a legend and um you mean so much to me thank you for doing the show and it just also makes me think about all the women that we talked about in this interview lucille ball betty grable um linda darnel phyllis diller um elaine may uh um uh you know we all these all these different actresses do yourself a favor and check them out um type them in your phone or um um ask your computer ask your computer to bring up a picture of them um or uh whisper into your robot's ear that you want to see some of their highlights because uh it just it's just a reminder of all the good performances and also watch uh that great film stage door which is a great film about what carol was talking about about a women living in a house trying to be actresses anyway i don't know what i'm talking about i'm crying i've cried it's all it's over i've i've lost all credibility um thank you so much for listening and we'll uh see you soon bye you've been listening to good hang the executive producers for this show are bill simmons jenna weiss-berman and me amy poehler the show is produced by the ringer and paper kite for the ringer production by jack wilson kat spillane kaya mcmullen and alea zanaris for paper kite production by sam green joel lovell and jenna weiss-berman original music by amy miles this episode is brought to you by apple watch your heart tells the story of your health and with the new apple watch series 12 you can understand it better than ever it's got this new readiness score which based on your activity vitals and sleep basically tells you whether it's a let's go or do less day i'm always trying to navigate that and it's now backed by the most accurate heart rate sensing in a wearable so you can trust what it's telling you visit apple.com slash apple watch series 12 to learn more iphone 11 or later required readiness score is for wellness purposes only and not for medical use heart rate accuracy based on apple conducted study august 2026 visit apple.com slash hr accuracy this episode is brought to you by peacock with a new season of the paper the documentary team that immortalized dunder mifflin returns to the toledo truth teller to further chronicle a midwestern newspaper and the ragtag team trying to revive it what they lack in journalistic experience they make up for in heart but the issues just keep unfolding the paper is streaming now only on peacock