Carney has "board of peace" invite rescinded! Oh my!

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the Payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 Payroll professionals rely on. Friday, you know what that means. It's time for this weekend politics, the Friday edition, and we got a new team here today. We've got to rejoin now for the first time by Mark Norris, former Alberta Minister of Economic Development under Ralph Klein. Mark, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me, Ben, looking forward to it. And of course, we got Bernzie, Mike Burns, the CEO of Canada's Valor Games is here. Thanks so much for being here, Mike. That's great to be here, Ben. All right. So let's jump into the Trump of it all. This week was a very interesting one with a back and forth between the dynamic between Mark Carney and his speech at Davos, followed by the reaction by our friend to the south. And of course, this played into so many other things, the board of peace. What is what is this going to mean for our renegotiation of the USMCA? But Trump withdrew Carney's invitation to his board of peace. Now, depending on who you talk to, nothing is going to be accomplished by this board or not. So we're going to start with our newest member, Mark. Mark, what do you think of this all? I have a lot of thoughts, Ben. And I'm reminded of your dad and Reagan when they did a Yomans work to get the NAFTA underway and how it affected Canada greatly. So I think that that this time that we're under right now is very odd. I felt I was watching Hugh Grant in love actually standing up to the bully America. I'm really disappointed by the whole outcome of it. But I guess I understand what Carney's saying. Obviously, Trump likes people who tell him how great he is. Carney's not only not doing that. He's doubling down on warning the world to watch out for him. So no surprise what it so ever that he's been uninvited. Whether the board accomplishes anything at a billion dollars a member remains to be seen. But to me, it's just more of the same of the polarization of American and Canadian relationships. Yeah. It's tricky. Before I get to you, there was an article written on the Radio Canada website that was not critical, but was offering a counterpoint to the speech that was well written. It was well delivered. It's going to be remembered for a very long time. But can we afford to be to be viewing our relationship with the Americans as ruptured, not a transition, but a rupture. And we are not the we are not Europe. They have banded together in the EU. Their safety and numbers. There's hundreds of millions of them. Their economy is not integrated with the Americans the way ours is. And we have a dependence on them. We will always have a dependence on them, whether we want it or not. And Donald Trump does not take criticism very well. Let alone criticism that he thinks is directed absolutely at him. Mike there. Oh yeah. Sorry. It wasn't. Listen, there's no question the relationship is under a lot of stress. And I thought, Prime Minister Karnie did a good job at Davos laying out what he saw as the path forward and what new coalitions and trade opportunities we're going to look like. Look, I think at the end of the day, though, what Karnie's got to be careful of is that the vast majority Canadians don't know where Davos is. It never heard of the world economic form. And that almost 50% of this country is having a difficult time with affordability, paying the bills, getting food on the table. And I think he's going to have to he's got to turn it and perhaps this upcoming cabinet retreat is going to refocus what we said on how are we going to address the immediate issues that the vast majority Canadians are facing here in Canada. Those are the things that are going to get him reelected or booted from from office. And before we move on to the next thing, I want to take two seconds to and Amy, if you if you can, I want you to clip this. I'm hearing from a lot of people online who are claiming that because we are having issues with Donald Trump today on trade, it all stems from my dad's decision to launch into free trade with the United States. The single greatest vehicle of economic development and expansion in the history of the world of over 40 years of success because of that growing our economy. One guy comes in and says he doesn't like free trade. And you want to throw out the last 40 years, I am speaking specifically to you people who've been saying stuff like John Turner is right. You, what's the clinical word? You are morons. You are idiots. And you should be nowhere near levers of power. And that's all I have to say about that. Okay. So back to this, Mark Karnier, right? Mike has gone to Quebec City. He picked the La Citadel as a very symbolic place to make a call for national unity without actually talking about national unity. He didn't talk about Quebec. He didn't talk about Alberta. But it did sound like a stump speech. And I guess I'm like, let's go to let's go to Mark in Alberta. What does unity mean in Alberta? Well, unity means a number of different things, but most specifically it means being heard. And as Alberta lifelong, we know all about equalization. We know the money that's been transferred out of Alberta. Nobody ever complained about it. A high tide rises all boats. But recently, especially the last 10 years under under Lord Trudeau, the this respect was was unbelievable, man. I've never seen levels of it in my whole life as an Albertan. So unity would mean a listening, number one, and B saying, listen, if you're driving the economy and you have some concerns, we are going to not only listen and give endless stump speeches that go nowhere, we're going to get a pipeline built, or we're going to talk more about your desire to develop more resources. And the disrespect that has been felt, if Carney is just giving more speeches, which I personally feel he is, to be perfectly blunt, it's going nowhere. And so the separatist movement that is does have people lining around buildings in Red Deer and Claire's home in Wayne, right? It's going to take more root. So unity means listening, getting things done, and actually not just giving the window dressing that we've been getting for at least 10 years, if not longer. I'll tell you what the worst case scenario is here and to go back to what we're talking about before, this speech did not overwhelm with Donald Trump. The unilaterally declaring recognizing the state of Palestine did not overwhelm with Donald Trump. The EV deal did not go well with Donald Trump. He didn't like the Reagan commercial either, but that wasn't Mark Carney. So those things are lining up for possible problems, not only with a NAFTA renegotiation, but what happens, Mike, in the scenario that the separatist pull off the improbable and they win the referendum. Could you see a situation where Donald Trump, the next day, recognizes the state of Alberta and he says, "Hey, I was just taking my lead from Mark Carney." Yeah, I don't think the math works in Quebec, especially since the last referendum. No, no, I said Alberta. I said Alberta. Oh, I'm sorry. No, listen, again, I don't think the math works there either. I think there's probably 20 or 25% of Alberta that would consider exiting Canada. I just don't think that it's going to come to that. I think what I would suggest to the Prime Minister, or a lot of what Mark has just said is that Alberta doesn't want to hug. It wants things to work. It wants to stop being taught to as a problem and it needs to, and Ottawa needs to manage it and start to treat Alberta as an economic engine department. Unity should mean national projects that can actually get built without paralysis. I believe that unity means a fair deal. If Alberta is asked to carry more of the economic load, it should see more respect investment and faster outcomes. That's what all Canadians are looking for. Yeah, and you're right. Talking about us being one United Country and actually doing the work to make sure that we are one United Country are two different things. But it does feel like we've been given some promises, Mark, in this cabinet retreat, where Mark Carney said that on the table, for them to discuss, for them to get going on, is affordability and housing. Those are things people want to hear when you come when you go into a meeting like that, but that is not what we want to hear when you come out. We don't want to hear that you have a plan for a plan. We have a plan and the shovels are going on the ground tomorrow. Anything less than that, I don't think we'll go over well. Oh, I totally agree, but I'm going to take it a step further, Ben. I find it remarkable that all of those folks who bootleg to Justin for 10 years and were advised by Mark Carney, frankly, never said a word wanted to get reelected and did. Now, Carney shows up in some form of savior, making all sorts of promises, going all over the world, telling things what he stands for as Canadians when he's not elected to do it in the minority government. Yeah. (upbeat music) - We are gonna continue with our great and awesome panel today for this week in politics made up. Today of Mark Norris and Mike Burns, Mark, I was interrupting you. You said you were gonna take my thought before the break a little bit farther. - Yeah, I guess I don't wanna go too far, Ben, but the cabinet embarrasses me. They don't challenge, they don't say anything, carny, globetrotts, and says whatever he wants. I don't know if he even talks to them. The only guy that I ever see sort of rises head above the Gover hole is champagne and he doesn't say a lot. So to think that they're gonna go have some all-encompassing cabinet meeting where they're gonna talk about how to make Canada better, to me is laughable. I think he's going to explain how he is gonna get them reelected and they'll fall into line. But here's the other thing if I could, Ben, you know, the guy who is advising Trudeau for the last five years was carny as well. So the slight of hand that the liberal party is pulled on the nation is quite remarkable. - Oh yeah. - And as a lifelong PC, I don't buy it, I don't dig it, but I'm gonna watch very carefully to see what comes out of anything. - Yeah, no, we're living very strange times where what happened in the last election is considered in some circles a change election. I never thought I'd live to see the day, but here we are. But Mike, it does seem like it's been almost a year in this new liberal era under Mark Carnie and doesn't feel like a lot's happened, however, 'cause it feels like a game of whack-a-mole, right? We've got, we've got, so Mark Carnie's head will pop up and he will say we're gonna build at speeds we haven't seen since the Second World War and then nothing happens and you bang it down and another one pops up and it says, "Well, that's because we had to do X, Y and Z." And then the same with housing, the same with Donald Trump, we were gonna get a deal by a certain day and then there's all these reasons why it doesn't happen, not as much pushback from the press on him, not delaying these things all the time. And so my fear is we just got a great speech, a great speech and inspirational speech and insightful speech. But if it doesn't translate into housing, it doesn't translate into affordability, if it doesn't make our dollar go a lot farther at the grocery store, who cares? - Yeah, and listen, I completely agree. I think this cabinet retreat has got to produce more than talking points. Canadians are in a show me mood. And I think if I was the prime minister, I'd be coming out of that cabinet retreat with a different speech that would demonstrate to Canadians the 30, 60 and 90 day action plan. The challenge for this government and any other government, whether it's in Canada or elsewhere, is building homes, building infrastructure and other big projects takes time. And so how can we work with the bureaucracy, reduce regulations, incentivize the private sector to participate fully in these things? That is what I think the prime minister has to be laser focused on. At the same time have a die towards going on around the world. - But he had the opportunity to do that. He said before the election, that one of the biggest problems was the innovation killing and investment killing regulations, a regulatory system that was put in place under Justin Trudeau. And instead of getting rid of it, he built like a fast pass section that only the liberal party gate keeps. And so this is what we've got here. And it's like a shell game. Trying to get them to stick to their commitments and acknowledge when they've blown past a timeline. They don't do it. Apparently according to them, everything's happening. And I don't see it, Mark. - Well, you're 100% right, Ben. And listen, I'll tell you, going back to the original comments about what does Alberta want. You know, I hate to say that Eastern media, if somebody would have in a conservative suit would have said, Rosemary, look into your heart, they would have been pilloried. If Pierre Pauliev would have said anything about elbows up, they would have accused him of being a bully. So, you know, he's, Cacarney's got a free ride for more than a year now. We've seen nothing tangible whatsoever. And I don't hold on any hope that there is going to, it just seems to be more bureaucracy and more budgets and more money going to things that sort of go into the endless liberal hole of it's our project and we'll figure it out. And I'm really stunned by the fact it's a minority government and it's operating like it's, like it's, you know, Brian Mulroney had the biggest majority in the history of Canada. It's not. It's a minority government. Somebody's got to hold them accountable. - Mike Burns, we're taking our show on the road to Calgary during the conservative convention where Pierre Pauliev's leadership will be put to the test in a leadership vote. And I wonder what you think his magic number is because it's, I mean, it's been, you know, just to give people some context. Joe Clark got 66% after he lost the election to Trudeau nine months after he'd won the election. He got 66 and he resigned. And I'm thankful for that because that met my dad one. But my dad even said at the time he's like six. - All of Canada's thankful for that, Dan. - But dad, dad, I was famous for saying like 66% he got 66%, I wouldn't equip with 66% but a lot of people have. So I wouldn't, I would have been happy with the 66% on any test in high school. (laughing) Yeah, look, I think with this, I don't think there is an official magic number but there certainly is going to be a political one. I think if Paulie of wins comfortably, he obviously is going to stay. I think if it's soft, say low 70s, I think you'll see that there's still a lot of questions, probably leaks and donor anxiety, but above 80, I think it's a story for the day, but below that it becomes a storyline. - Yeah, Mark, I think above 80, that's like the Mendoza line form, right? I think 80 is a good number. And anything with a seven in front of it, I'm sure, of course he can survive, it was 78%. But I think with each digit below that, it gets exponentially more difficult. - Totally agree, Ben. And the fact of the matter is, politics is a blood sport. You know what, when you get into it, I watched my good friend and mentor Ralph Klein go through leadership. I think he came out with 68% at the time I felt, well that's fine, but it started. As soon as that number came out, it started the next day on the convention floor and the campaigns were underway. So yes, I agree, it got to be a minimum of 80. He's uncontested, he's been the leader of the loyal opposition for a long time now. If he hasn't got that kind of base, then there's a bigger problem for our beloved conservative movement than just Paulie have not getting reelected. Yeah, and a little more context, in September of 2025, then BC conservative leader John Rusted got 70.66% and the knives were out for him. They were out for him at seven. They were out for him. Meanwhile, Scott Moe, I was at the policy convention where they gave him 80%, I think, or 80 or 81%, he's not going anywhere. So it really is quite situational in provincial politics. I think Bonnie Cromby got over 70% and she resigned. So it's interesting. But what do you think has to happen? What do you think a guy like Pierre has to do between now and that vote? The votes haven't been cast yet. I'm sure there's some people who, I don't know how many people are on the fence, but there have to be some people on the fence. What would you tell Pierre to do to try to get those people who might be on the fence, to switch or to get off the fence and those people who are thinking it's time to turn the page to give him another kick at the can. Yeah, look, I suspect that Pierre and his team have been working the lines and meeting with all sorts of conservatives across the country who will be descending in cavalry in the next few weeks. But I think for Pierre to be competitive to get the result that he wants, I think he's going to have to expand the base. I think he's got to be less influencer energy and more prime minister energy. And he's got to sound like a prime minister in a government and waiting, and not just an opposition machine. I think people want to see what is his plan? What would he do under the circumstances? All right, Mike, I'm going to interrupt you because I want to give the last word for about 30 seconds to our new friend, Mark Norris. Thank you, Ben and Mike. He's got to be put to put the progressive back in. He comes across as hard-hearted, means-spirited all those words that I hate, but it's true. He's not likable in that regard. 50% plus are women who want to like somebody. They want to know that he's looking out to the family, the grocery store. He doesn't come across that way and he has to. All right, if he doesn't, I don't hold out my show. All right, Mark Norris, Mike Burns, thank you so much for joining us on the panel. Enjoy your weekend and we'll see you soon. And just a reminder, if you want more BMS, we put a podcast out every day and find even more content on X Instagram and YouTube. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Monday's at 10 on Global and Stream on Stack TV.