Caregiving Is Everyone's Work: Audio Version

Welcome to the Whole Caregiver Podcast. The Podcast for all of you. We are your host, Urna and Megan. Hello caregivers. Is I, Urna Alfred-Liusus here with my wonderful co-host, Megan Thomas-Hemden? Hello. We're doing something different this episode. We're making some space for a few reflections on caregiving. Sounds really broad, and that's intentional. There are some specific things we'd like to bring to light, but for now, just think about that as I hand things over to Megan to get us started. Thank you, and that we're excited to just sit and chat with each other. Urna and I usually, before we start recording, have a little like 30-minute therapy session. And so you're going to get a little taste of that as we sit and reflect on caregiving together today. I created some talking points, and some of this goes back to some of the research I do in family caregiving, but also I think is somewhat a reflection of things I've experienced personally recently, and some of the patterns I'm seeing and I think Urna seeing happening in our country, that I think it's important for us to pay attention to. I just also want to frame up what we're going to talk about with saying that I really believe that whenever one group is blessed, it's like pushed down, it hurts everybody. And so if I'm coming off a little on the feminist side, I mean, I'd say I probably am, but also I come at feminism with a real goal of acknowledging the dignity and value of every person. I try, and try being the working word. I try to focus on human flourishing for everyone. And I think Urna and I are on the same page with that. Definitely. Definitely. We all do better when we all are actually given the opportunity to do better. That's really what it boils down to. Yeah. Yeah. So this first question I'm going to ask. So caregiving just kind of historically has been framed as socially reproductive work, and most socially reproductive work like providing care, like teaching, like cleaning is often feminized and undervalued. So I am interested, Urna, how you've seen this play out in your own life. It is a really fantastic question, very expansive. For me, as a caregiver who started on her journey very young in life, it was very difficult to explain to people. So I'm 21 trying to explain to people that I'm taking care of my mom because of serious illness. It just seemed like that's your decision and you're her daughter, so you should be doing that. The end. There's no additional consideration for. You know, we did not plan this and she also has another child who is my brother and things happen. And everybody has to be ready at some point to recognize that this is part of life. This is not, I'm her daughter, I need to take care of her. This is my parent. I'm going to do my best and I'm going to hope that my sibling is able to do the same as well. But there's definitely a leaning not has. There is a leaning and always has been too. Of course this is what you do. This is your job, which I have a lot of feelings about as you might imagine. Knowing me at this point, I also think because of that there is no place to acknowledge it in the formal structure of work. So at work, even when I started my journey at 21, there was family leave. It was not paid. The concept of maternity leave was a thing. But caring for a parent was not a thing. So there is no policy to support me needing time, aside from me burning through my sick time and my vacation time. That was it. That has always stuck with me because that has been the experience for the majority of the time. The majority of the 20 plus years I care for my mom. That's an indication of, oof, woman's work and policy basically saying, that's right, that's what it is. That's why it's not in here. That's why it's not represented. Yeah. Could have been better. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah, I just listening to you, I'm reflecting on where I live right now, which is state where like legislators really like to say that we're a family state. But there are things that I'll just give an example. Kindergartenists half day because legislators, yes, because legislators believe children should be home with their mothers, which is assuming a lot right there, assuming that the mom is at home, assuming that the mom does not need to work to support the family. And I mean, like, I love my kids. I love my time with my kids, but I'm not going to lie. Folded kindergarten was a game changer because it made a huge difference in how much child care costs, right? Yes, yes, yes. And I was like, I was still home with my kids. I grabbed my kids to school. I spent time with them after, like, I was even talking to my kids this week. I mean, joking. And I asked them if they feel like they've been traumatized because they've had a working mother. And they're all, and they're all like, oh, yeah, totally. But then my oldest was like, you should not have been a stay at home with that one. I think what the American kids are still sharp and in tune with, like, yeah, no. And also they didn't, they didn't need it. What, who is assuming what these children need? That's all. Yeah. Yeah, I just think there are a lot of assumptions about what is right for people or that people fit into a certain category because of, like, gender or, you know, other things. And actually, I think it does a disservice to men who are family caregivers, you know, because if it's something that's feminized and undervalued, then if a man is doing something that doesn't fit his social role, like, what does that look like for him? You know, does he, like, does he get the support he needs? I'm not a man. That is not a lived experience that I can claim. But I just think it's important to consider that, like, when we have these rigid categories about what kind of work is for what kind of person, it really does harm everybody. It makes that harder for people to navigate whether they are socially fit the role they're in or socially do not. And that's why I really believe, like, when we examine these things and talk about them and say, like, caregiving is work for everyone. That's going to belong to anyone. Yes. And if that part really, it makes me wonder because caregiving is something that we are all affected by. And if we're not affected now, we will be in some way, shape or form. So putting it in a category or giving it a label for one particular group absolutely does disservice to us all. It makes it harder for the other groups to actually, like you said, receive support. An example that I can think of now is a representative from the state of New Jersey, Andy Kim. He's one of the few legislators that have come out to say, I'm caring for my dad who was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. And this is what it basically does to my world. I listened to a webinar with him where he really struggled with whether or not to talk about this, but because it took up so much of his life, and legislators have weird hours, like they're legislating into the night sometimes, sometimes overnight. But he couldn't get around it anymore. So he was like, I still had a choice, but I felt at this time more people would be helped by hearing me talk about this from my perspective, from the role that I play, the service that I do. It was so powerful, and I'm hoping that others look at that to recognize, yeah, this is something that doesn't discriminate at all. We are all in this. We might not want to be in it, but we are in it. And so the more we can understand that it's not about our station or our place in life, if you will, the better we can figure out how to better support one another. Yeah, I agree. I was thinking. about the caregiving documentary that's on PBS that Bradley Cooper produced, I think. I didn't know it's in Let You Know. But I also just think that's a great example. Like Bradley Cooper is pretty wealthy. A very successful and yeah, he was also highly impacted by caring for his own father. Caregiving is no respecter of persons. Let's just say that. Like it is rude. It does not have permission. It's a concern. Yeah, yeah, it does. And I believe that for, and again, I can only speak to my experience as a woman. But people just assuming that it's something that I'm going to do means that there's a lot less compassion about it. Like why are you complaining about a job that's your job? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. People have kind of like that. And I'm like, first of all, no. anything that I'm affiliated with. So just stuff. Secondly, wow, how narrow minded and rude. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're allowed to have a hard time, regardless of what your job is. Like you're allowed to just have a hard time as a person in this world. Like I, I don't know about you, but this being a person feels like a lot sometimes. This adult hard situation, I would like to speak to the manager. No, no. All of the things. Okay. So yes, yes, the hard time is universal. I don't know why this part of life doesn't get the same treatment. I almost feel like there's also because maybe that it's feminized and undervalued economically. There's a like a lot of praise like, oh, if you're a caregiver, you're an angel or like you should be on a pedestal. And I just come from my religious background where women were put on a pedestal, but weren't given as much power. And that just feels very similar. And also just feels icky because I don't need a pedestal. I really don't. I don't need somebody to tell me how amazing I am or I just need somebody to listen when I'm saying I'm having a bad day and to give me paid family leave when I'm having a family crisis. And you know, to show up for me, like that's what I need. I don't need to be put on a pedestal. I just need policy to support whatever might happen. So just support life, like just acknowledge that things happen. So people do need to be flexible. It doesn't mean that they don't care about their job. It doesn't mean that they're not good at their job. It just means that maybe they're not their best since they spent the previous night and the emergency room wondering if their loved one was going to survive. That's reality. So that's what I need. I don't need any like, you're such a good human. Thanks, Anne. This human needs sleep. She has a slept in a whole week. Can you do a joke? I don't know. Be kind. That's all. No. I agree. We need to do better at acknowledging this as universal. And it is something that is not only affecting the person while they're caregiving, but beyond. So I think that extends to healthcare a lot. Yeah. And like making sure people have insurance and have providers that will listen to them when they say they're having a hard time. You know? Absolutely. Megan, I feel like we should have, I don't know, a reflections check in every so often because I think so too. I know that you read a book recently that goes a lot deeper into the history of where we why we are where we are. And I think that would really be interesting to our audiences. So let's pick us up. Let's do it. I'm in. All right. Well, whole caregiver family, we will see you on the next one. But at least you got a little teaser about what's been on our minds these days. Yeah. Thank you for listening. We appreciate you all. We do. We do. Take care and catch you next time. Bye. Bye. Thanks for spending time with us today. We appreciate the work you do in the world. Till next time. Bye. Bye. [Music]