Careers Spotlight: Learning & Development at White & Case

[MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to On the Record with White & Case. This is the podcast where we discuss life and big law, whether you're considering a career in big law, studying at law school, or already one of us. This podcast is where you can get to know our firm and our people. Expect tips and advice, insights into our work, and find out about what lawyers actually do all day. And in every episode, we'll go off the record with our guests for the lighter side of legal life. I'm Julia Upfinandez, and this is On the Record with White & Case. Today, I am here with Liza Eres, Manager of Learning and Development for the America's region. Super excited to kick off this episode. The first time we're spotlighting business services side of White & Case, how are you doing, Liza? I'm great. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited. Really, I just want to start the conversation with what is learning and development. Learning and development here at White & Case is really very multifaceted. We have on-the-job learning. We have formal trainings, on-demand trainings that our associates can access. So really, there are a lot of resources to empower our associates and business services professionals throughout their career. And how do you really support the attorneys throughout their careers? I know there's a number of different programs that we do. Maybe you can give us kind of a high level overview of what those are. Of course, there are interactive milestone programs throughout an associate's career. So at different transition points in their career, we offer different milestones to them. And we really try to focus at skills that they are developing at that crucial point. So for example, in milestone two, which is for our mid-level associates, we start focusing on skills that have to do with managing teams and delegation and feedback. Whereas when they were a junior associate, they were really focusing more on assignments and tasks. And now they're taking on more responsibility by having a managerial role. That sounds awesome. And I don't know the answer to this. So I'm going to ask it and see where it goes. But who collaborates with you and your team on developing these programs? Are there-- is there a leadership board of partners that have been at the firm for many years? Like who collaborates with you guys to bring those offerings to life? So it really starts with our global learning and development team. And the broader team works together to create these programs and think about the curriculum. We work with partners, senior stakeholders here at the firm. We have internal and external presenters at these milestone programs. So there really are a lot of people who get involved. I think the really cool thing about the business services teams, specifically at White and Case, because that's what we can talk to, is how much we collaborate with other teams. And I don't think that we really understand like kind of the reach of even each other's groups. Me and recruiting, you and learning and development, we collaborate a lot on the offerings that we start with summer associates or first years. But then when you sit down and talk about all of the different teams that really you pull from and you collaborate from, it's between all of us we cover all of the practice areas. So that's kind of cool. And now I can say I've learned something as well. So as you mentioned earlier, you say, you're kind of with the associates or with the lawyers from the very start of their careers and that obviously starts with our summer associates. So what are some of the ways and resources that the summer associates kind of connect with learning development from the first day of their program? So summer associates here have access to our firm subscriptions. They have access to our on-demand learnings, our internal resources on our internet. And they can always reach out to the learning and development team while they're here if they have questions or if they need additional support. And new this year, they actually are able to access our coaching office so they can have a confidential conversation with an internal coach here. And what would you say would be your 15 second elevator pitch as to why it's important to kind of leverage some of these resources that they have as a summer associate and not kind of wait until they're back with us and kickstart then? So my elevator pitch would be why not? You're here at a global law firm that offers so many resources to get you started to really develop your foundation and start it while you're a summer. Don't wait. Awesome. And I know they do something bigger with you in the summer as well, trial academy. Can you give us the kind of overview of what that is? So just as you were talking about before, we collaborate with your team, the recruiting team, to get the summer associates involved in our trial academies. Our trial academies are run every summer. And this year we are gearing up for our depositions academy where 32 summer associates will participate as witnesses for our teams. They'll be live in person in our New York office. They'll have the opportunity to not only connect with the associates, but also to connect with partners who serve as faculty and judges during these mock depositions. They're always so excited about this program. For me, it's still a little over my head. Maybe I need to sit in and be a witness. Maybe I could be number 33. But I know it's a great program, and we're super excited to have it offered again this year and work with you guys. Always love collaborating with you guys anyways. So making our way through the progression of a young lawyers kind of career, they hopefully all accept their offers. They come back to us after they graduate three all year. They come back for their first year as a junior associate and they're with us for a week doing what we call as the foundational milestone or foe my as we all reference it. Can you kind of talk me through that planning and what goes into thinking about the tools and resources that are really integral in that part that gets them set up and what does the program kind of look like? I know that was a two multifaceted question. So start wherever and we can pick it up from there. Sounds good. So yes, they do participate in foe my foundational milestones during their first week at the firm. It includes onboarding, but it's more than that. So during that first week, we really want to give them information that's going to set them up for success. And just as the title suggests, it's a foundation for them to build upon. It's a lot of information. We don't expect them to retain all of it. But it's really about showing them what resources the firm has, introducing them to different technology, training our wellness resources, making sure that they know about staffing and billing procedures, introducing them to our pro bono practices and talking to them about ethics, professionalism, risk management, and also introducing them to our affinity networks and D&I team. So much is packed into that first week. It's almost like thinking about the first week of the summer program also, but just at the next level, I feel like. And I know I've heard feedback from so many of our junior lawyers who are just like, without that, I don't feel like I would have properly geared up or been reintroduced to people that, yes, I worked with, almost a year ago at that point, but have really maybe not been able to stay in touch with, or I've learned so much more. And I want to reconnect with them. So I think it's just a great offering. And we now have been running it for a couple of years. And it's grown into such a strong program and such a strong first reintroduction back to the firm. How do you keep it fresh? How does your team work on keeping it engaging and relevant to what's going on when they come back a year later? A huge deal is our feedback that we get from associates who have been through the program. We really rely on their input to see what hit home for them, what we missed, and we keep updating and revising the curriculum every year. We take a look at the content. We work with the people advisory team, and we make sure that everything is fresh enough to date. Feedback is so crucial to any program. And I think you guys really do it the right way, because you're able to make tangible kind of, hey, this didn't work. Hey, this was really a knockout. Like, let's do this again, or let's mix the pieces together and make it into an even better program. And I think that's-- it's so important for people to hear that as well. That feedback is just-- it's really the backbone of any programming. And you only can make it better, or the same experience, or an even better experience for the next person by providing that. So I think it's great to kind of point that out as well. So then they're with us for FOMI. They transition into being kind of young lawyers at the firm. And then we have the first year instruction series, FYIs. We like to reference it as well. Talk me through what that is. So once we send them off to their day jobs, we don't just let them go and never see them again. It's really important to the firm that they feel supported their entire first year. So like you said, they launch into the FYIs series. The FYIs series provides trainings approximately monthly, sometimes more than monthly, where we bring everyone back together. Usually it's virtually because they're in all different offices. And we come back for trainings where we touch upon different skills and topics that really will help them do her out their first year. So we handle all different types of topics, like communication, time management, writing. financial literacy, career management, and we keep growing the curriculum. So this is an evolving curriculum from the time it commenced with our class of 2020. To now we've increased the amount of programs. We've added this year productivity, working effectively in a hybrid world, which is very relevant, well-being, collaboration, and we really work hard to make sure that we are addressing the issues that are happening in our ever changing world and that we're pioneering and innovating. It's so important to have that support as a junior lawyer, really, as a new member of any firm or company or anywhere you work. It just really sets the tone for how you develop in that first year and your first year no matter where you are in your career is just so imperative to how you progress, right? There's so many different ways that I want to go about my next couple of questions because I just find it so interesting, at least for me, when we're even recruiting lawyers or students at that point, they come from so many different backgrounds, right? And I think your offerings cover so many things that maybe they might not want to ask or feel confident enough to ask about what's been your experience when giving these programs and kind of the feedback that you get from them and like the offerings that you provide. So they really are business skills and they don't teach that in law school. So we really try to teach everyone whether you're coming in from having worked already before coming to White & Case or if you've been a student your entire life. So we want to make sure that everyone is receiving the same information and not making any assumptions about where people are starting out or coming from. And these skills are just as correlated to success as the practice of law skills. So in order to be a successful associate and thrive, these skills are essential and so that's why we have chosen these topics and why we continue to make sure that we are providing that high level of these business skill programs. I love that you say that we make no assumptions and no one else should make any assumptions about what someone knows, what they don't know, what's transferable, what's not transferable. And I think one of my most favorite things that I've heard very recently is that yes, you go to law school, you get kind of the foundations of how to do research, how to write briefs, how to do all of those things, but you really get the knowledge that you need on the job. Working day to day, seeking out your mentors, going to these programs. So I think it's just an incredible resource that we have for the firm and it doesn't stop there. That's the continued progression. We offer these milestone trainings throughout a lawyer's career here at Wayne Keys. Can you talk me through what that progression looks like and maybe high level overviews of the different milestone programs and offerings that we have for them? Of course. So after they finish their first year curriculum, they will participate in milestone one. And I also want starts to focus on having more client contact and being more outward facing outside of the firm. We focus on things like providing exceptional client service and what does that mean? We talk about writing and we work on our skill building as far as building relationships. So starting to think more about the broader picture and the broader law firm. We talked about milestone two before where they would then have that as a mid level where they start managing teams. Milestone three comes at a more senior level. So now they're continuing to do more managing of teams and also now starting to think about business development and clients and what does that mean. And so you can see at each point of their career, they're receiving these milestone programs. In addition to the milestone programs, we also run a PD series and the professional development series is something that is offered to associates and business service professionals. And so just because you may not be involved in a milestone program, there are other opportunities here at the firm to learn throughout the years. This is amazing. I'm geeking out about it because I feel like I love any opportunity to learn a little bit more about my profession, learn about my business skills and trainings. We also have the offerings for business side of the house, phenomenal resources, external people that come and talk and materials. And I think for me too, and wanting to give them most visibility, how do people get involved in these? How do they see that these are offerings that we have? What do you recommend for an internal audience to kind of get plugged into these series and programs? We have newsletters that go out regularly. So for our associates and our attorneys, there's an attorney newsletter that goes out in the America's region every Monday. And in those newsletters, we feature these programs so that everyone can see what the upcoming trainings are. So I would say definitely look at that. Don't just delete that email. We also have a newsletter for our business services professionals. So same concept where the upcoming programs, professional development series, all will be highlighted in those newsletters. In addition, we have our internet, our connect pages that have the upcoming programs and all of our calendars. So you can find it in a couple of different places. And if you can't find it, call us. You guys absolutely like blaze the trail when it came to connect pages and making sure that people could get to the different offerings and clicking into a calendar. So huge cudos to you guys. And I do receive the newsletters, which is great. Sometimes I delete them. I'm going to admit it, but I will do better at digging into it because it's just a great offering. And I think the more visible and people start to interact the more they see things, like the more they know, hey, four o'clock has come around and I didn't get the newsletter. And I was looking for the mindfulness training or one of the other offerings. They just get into a routine of expectation. And then you get more engagement from it. Do you feel like that's, have you gotten engagement or feedback like that based on the newsletters? Yes, I think that it really does help us to get to a wider audience by having those newsletters. It always helps word of mouth. So if you're interested in a training and you don't see one of your colleagues in that training, shoot them a jabber or email and say, hey, this is starting. Come hop on. So word of mouth is really, really powerful. And we love to see everyone in the programs. We love to see the engagement. And a huge part of our programs that I don't think we talked about yet is building relationships with each other. So as much as they're learning and they're being taught a particular skill, the participants are actually building relationships with each other. A lot of times, even if it's virtual, we have breakout rooms where people can meet colleagues from across the world, really, and have conversations with people across practices, across geographies, and it's really a time to connect with the white and case world beyond your local office. We had some kind of telepathy just then because I definitely noted that we hadn't really spoken about the benefit of them meeting each other at different kind of stages of their life. And I think the really cool part of it too is as they progress together, they get together, you know, at certain times in the career and kind of update each other or, you know, touch up with what's going on or think about deals that they can bring each other in on or, you know, like you said, learning opportunities or business development. And it's so important, those touch points as well because you're growing up with people, you know, you're doing the same things. And having someone have the same learned experience as you is huge. And it makes such a difference. And I think talks to who we are as a firm as well, are people or strongest assets. I think I say that in every single episode. So if you're listening and you've heard that before, you will continue to hear that. But it's so true. And it's because of offerings like this. So thank you for bringing that up and connecting with me on some wavelength. So before we kind of wrap up and get into our off the record segment, what's one thing you wish more people knew about learning and development that maybe we haven't covered yet? I really want everyone to know that our doors are really open, whether it's virtually or in person. The learning and development team, I can honestly say really enjoys what they do and is always willing to support you, whether it's something that we do or we can help with or connecting you with someone else at the firm who can then help you. So really come and talk to us and ask us questions because we're happy to help you. And of course, I'm going to lean on some of your expertise. Is there any resources as a law student, as a first year junior lawyer, books, resources, articles that are kind of top of mind to you that you recommend as you make that transition into the law firm or even when you're here? So there are so many resources out there, right? And if you Google first year associate, you can find an overwhelming amount of information. So if you're thinking about something that you're interested in learning about before you actually enter the firm, I would say focus in on a specific topic that you've feel like you want to gain some more insight into before you join the firm. And if I had to pick something, I would say writing is hugely important. People will forget what you said, but I promise you that if something is in writing, whether it's an email, a brief you filed in court, it will be with you for the rest of your career. So writing is so important, and there are so many books out there. I can name two. I promise I don't get anything for naming these, but legal writing in plain English by Brian Garner is a great resource as well as point made by Ross Gooberman to really great books, and I can't stress enough how important writing is. Well, you heard it here from the expert. That's why I was asking. I think it's always good to have some bookshelves stocked by the time you're a junior lawyer kind of joining the firm. You're going to have moments of downtime. I think they're good resources as well to just have and kind of continue to develop yourself, even when you're not informal programs. And that's another great kind of, you know, the learning development team is just a plethora of wealth. I can't use any other of the same kind of words to describe how many different resources and external resources and articles and books and podcasts that you guys have kind of open the doors to for so many. So if that's something of interest, I know you're a great point of contact for that as well. So thank you so much for kind of walking us through what it's like to kind of be supported by learning development, telling us what it actually is. So many people come in and just, you know, think it's just lawyers at a law firm and there's so many other offerings and people that are there to support the lawyers and support the business services professionals. So thank you for giving us a peek behind the curtain. So now I always switch it over to you then off the record moment. Just my favorite part of any episode I'm honest about that. Just a time that's something funny or big or life changing, not too life changing hopefully has happened in your career that you're willing to share. Yeah. So I used to be a practicing litigator. I practiced for over a decade. But there is a moment in my career that I will never, ever forget and it happened during my first year practicing law. I made a big mistake and it was a very big mistake to the point where they developed an entire training around my mistake. Did they name it after you though because that is what I'm curious about. Thank goodness. No. No. They did not. Everybody who was there knew why we were getting this training. So I think it's really important to know that there are some really great things to be learned from that. So as horrifying as it was, I really took away some key things and the first thing was admit when you make a mistake. No one can help you if you don't tell them that it happened. The other thing is that everyone is human, right? We're not perfect. No one is perfect. And mistakes are going to happen. And I guess the last thing I would say is that mistakes in training are just part of growing your career. And if we don't make mistakes and we're just not going to learn and grow. And so they're okay. And going to trainings will help to reduce the amount of mistakes that you make. And just keep going and growing and learning. Okay. So that was like a very philosophical off the record moment. And it might be my new favorite. And I say that every time also. But I love that. And I love how you just kind of took it and stride. You needed to kind of move forward. And you can look back and just say, this is really what I've learned. And it's helped kind of get me to where I am as well. And I think that those are such great like piece of advice. I can't give anything better than that. And I just might need to just sign off forever. But I think that was really great. So thank you for sharing. And again, thank you for being willing to get on the podcast, discuss learning development with us. Hope anyone listening takes Liza up on her recommendations as well, especially as you're gearing up to maybe transition from two all to three all to first year associate. And if you're joining us at Wayne Case, I know Liza is eager to meet you in the fall of winter when our first year starts. So thank you again, Liza. And I will put any links to anything she mentioned in our show notes. Thank you so much. Thanks. Bye. You can find out more about our work, our people and the opportunities we offer at inside.whitecase.com and our social media channels on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. On the record is for you, our listeners. So we want to hear from you. Tell all your thoughts, questions and topic ideas to us at the address in the show notes. Thanks for listening and please subscribe in your favorite podcast app so you don't miss out on our next episode.