2986: Carb Cycling for Faster, Better Fat Loss Results

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All right, we're going to talk about carb cycling. This is a technique bodybuilders have used for decades to get better results. You want to get lean. You want to keep your muscle. You want better workouts. This just may be the trick. Let's go. We're going to talk about carb cycling. You know, of course, it's a bit of an overgeneralization, but at least in the circle that I hung around with. In the competitive world, nobody counts calories. They just follow macro breakdowns. Protein, and primarily protein and carbohydrates. Carbs is what they play with the most. And they just. I remember that was a bit of a transition for me, like when I'd ask people about dieting strategies, and they're getting ready. And I'd be like, oh, where are you keeping your calories? They're like, oh, I don't know. I'm like, huh? What do you mean you don't know your calories? Like you're going in a cut, you're doing a pull. Like, no, I just manipulate carbohydrates. And they almost ever. And everybody has kind of different cycling strategies. And obviously, depending on the size of the competitor, you know, a low day of carbohydrates for one person could be 150 grams. For another person, it could be 50 grams, right? And so that all does change, which is also changing calories, right? But most all, if not all, at least in my experience, nobody talked about the calories. They just talked about the carbohydrates. That's old school bodybuilding for you. Yeah. Yeah. So here's what's interesting. Here's what's, just for people listening, one of the reasons why carb cycling exists, because there's a few reasons, but one of the reasons is carbohydrates are the easiest to manipulate of the three macronutrients for a couple of reasons. So all foods are made up of three macronutrients. So there's micronutrients, which are like vitamins, minerals, and stuff like that. And the macronutrients are the proteins, fats, and carbs. And if you're cutting your calories, like what Adam is discussing, let's say you're trying to get leaner. So you want to reduce your caloric intake, which you are going to have to do if you're trying to lose weight. There's three ways to do that. You can either cut your fat intake down, you can cut your protein intake down, or you can cut your carbohydrates down. All three of them contain calories. Fat contains the most calories per gram. Proteins and carbs are about the same. And so you can cut any of them or all of them or one of them to reduce your carbohydrates. Here's one of the reasons why carbs are such a great way to reduce your carbohydrates. You can cut any of them or one of them to reduce your easy macronutrient to manipulate. Of the three macronutrients, it's the only one that's not necessary. So what I mean by that is protein, and there's a certain amount of protein that is essential. Well, it'd be detrimental, the other two. The other two, if you're too low, it becomes detrimental. It becomes, you could die to take it to the extreme. So there's a certain amount of protein that is essential. There's a certain amount of fat that is essential. Your body needs a certain amount. They're what are known as essential fats. They're what are known as essential fatty acids and essential amino acids. In other words, to make it, just to paint the picture in an extreme way, you could eat 10,000 calories a day, but if you're not eating enough protein, you'll starve your body. You could eat 10,000 calories a day, not eat enough fat, and you'll starve your body. You could eat zero carbohydrates for the rest of your life, and you won't starve your body. Now, that doesn't mean it's ideal. I also want to be clear. I'm not saying no carbs is an ideal way to eat. It's just an easy macronutrient to play with because I'm not worried about essential. Fat, a lot of people like to cut fat, especially, you know, when we came up in the fitness industry in the 90s, fat was a macronutrient people loved to cut. It was demonized. Like, you go too low on fat, you feel like garbage, and your body doesn't function. Skin, hair, everything. I had, yeah, I had clients losing their hair and their nails would get, their hormones would be off, and it was just like their fat intake was too low. They were eating 30 grams of fat a day, and I had to double or triple it to get them to feel better. So cutting calories, from carbs, is just, I guess, for lack of a better term, safer and easier way to cut calories? Yeah, I think it's important we talk more about what happens more realistically. You painted the picture of the extreme of no fat and no protein, but that's not what happens, you know, most of the time, right? Like, what happens a lot of times is people just reduce calories, and it's easy to reduce a lot of calories through fat, and they do that, and they don't realize that, and protein is already hard to get, and so they typically eat low protein. And so let's talk about what happens when maybe you're not in, like, deathly low, but you're low fats, and you're low protein. One, if you're not getting enough protein, the signs that we would see as coaches, recovery, you know, strength going, so strength going down. Muscle loss. Muscle loss, not getting, not seeing any sort of strength gains. Aches and pains, because you're not recovering. Yeah, exactly. They feel like they're sore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For days longer than usual. That's what happens when someone cuts their calories and their protein is real. Fat, you've alluded to some of the ones that I would see with that. This was super common when I was a young trainer, because again, we were coming out of that, you know, the 90s when it was popular to do low fat. And so almost all of my female clients that I trained, I had to bump their fats. And it took me a long time actually to realize that. As a young trainer, I didn't know, I didn't know any better that this was causing a lot of issues, but I'd have a lot of female clients that would be like, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. So low that hair was falling out, skin, they weren't seeing results. If your hormone profile is off, right? So if your hormones are all out of balance, really hard to build muscle, really hard to lose body fat. And I remember when I would bump their fats, giving them more calories and all of a sudden we'd see fat loss, you know, or all of a sudden they start building muscle and feel a difference in energy. And I thought, oh, that's crazy. And so, you know, crazy extremes where they're going no fat or no protein, uh, are suffering from some of those types of signs from being low and cycling carbohydrates avoids all that. You can still build muscle and retain muscle really well. If, if carbohydrates, like you said, are, are zero, um, your hormone, you can keep your hormones still really good. So long as your calories are in a sufficient place, cause you, you could go so low a calorie that even that, that even that, well, you'd see it too. In the athletic community, if we'd, you know, carb cyclones mainly just for energy management. And so you would, you would deplete and then you would, uh, refeed, you know, going up into your like big event. And so now all of a sudden, like I'm have this flood of energy and you try and time it out well, but it wasn't as systematic as bodybuilding, which surprised me as well. Like the, they didn't account for the calories. I remember trying to figure that out with like meal planning and stuff with some clients. And it was like, they would actually just take scoops of rice and like, you'd get a high scoop day and you get a low scoop day. And it was like, that's exactly what I was thinking. what it looked like for them and myself. Like it became, it just, it was easy, right? high carb days you got full cups of rice uh in every six all six meals right so that's a lot of carbohydrates right there uh and then moderate days you got half cups of rice and then my really low days it was like no rice it was all vegetables you know vegetables were your only real source of carbohydrates which are really low so that would end up being like a 50 to 75 gram day of carbohydrates all through vegetables none through starches and and then you would cycle like that well it's not great results by the way doing this i love this oh no i know so we're gonna we're gonna talk about why uh a lot of reasons why bodybuilders have done this and even athletes so you know justin said something i think it's really important to understand is that cutting your carbs is an easy way to cut calories but it doesn't come without its own side effects now the side effects typically are not you know terrible like going too low protein a little fat but they it can make your workouts suck yeah this is just a fact so oh yeah and the data on this is very clear that's like the low carb warriors that debate that you can totally perform well whatever there's always first off there's always exceptions to the rule there are certain cases very actually quite rare where somebody will go low carb and feel better this has a lot to do with autoimmune issues oftentimes gut issues gut issues stuff like that but generally speaking across the board low carbohydrate diets result in reduced athletic performance you're not as strong you're stamina largely is affected in some cases not affected like really low steady state endurance can be okay with no carbs uh but other types of endurance just get hammered and then for the you know bodybuilders or people who like to work out and lift weights like the workouts just don't feel good you're not as strong and you don't get good pumps it's like you're not even connected to the weights that's what it feels like sometimes with a really low carb diet it's like you're working out and you're like i'm working out my biceps but i don't feel like what's going on here um and so it just makes workouts not as fun and so one of the reasons why carb cycling exists for athletes but also for bodybuilders is to improve uh athletic performance or the feel of the workouts and so i'm going to focus on the feel of the workouts for a second because improving athletic performance is easy to understand if you're an athlete like i got game day coming up or i'm a runner or whatever like yeah i gotta i gotta kick butt okay if you work out in the gym and you're not competing in a strength sport like it doesn't make that big of a difference if you're a little stronger a little weaker uh but the psychological effect is very huge powerful like when you're dieting and you're cutting your calories and you're in the gym and you're working out and you feel flat you're not getting a good pump yeah you start to hate your workouts and i'm gonna tell you this just as a coach just as a trainer uh if my clients didn't like their workouts the there's pretty guaranteed they're not gonna work out at some point yeah so i gotta make sure that i'm not getting a good pump and i'm not getting a good pump so i gotta make sure the workouts are somewhat enjoyable and low carb workouts are less enjoyable uh and bodybuilders again have noticed this and so they tend to cycle their carbs for better uh experiences in their workouts and so so to add to that um on the psychology part uh not just the way the workout feels but the psychology around how you look um i'm reminded of this as i go through this phase right now of like and and part of what kicked back the kind of carb cycling for me was this was i was kind of just reducing calories and through a lot of carbohydrates and so i was like low carb i'd say low moderate i wasn't really cycling yet at this point and what made me cycle was i finally after several weeks of like lower calories low carbohydrates i filled my body back up and got a workout and then it was like oh my god i'm not all of a sudden i went oh there's all the work i've been doing you see the results yeah like now my muscle bellies are filled up and i was like because up until that point there's this point that you get to and it's i call this like awkward stage of getting really lean or getting really fit uh because you're low calorie that you kind of don't like the way it looks you don't even look leaner you just look smaller yeah yeah and so it can really mess with your head when you know you're being really strict and you're and you're disciplining yourself and going to bed hungry a lot of nights and you're like well i'm not going to do that i'm not going to do that i'm going to what is this all for i look like shit or i don't like and my workouts feel terrible i don't look very good it doesn't look like i'm making that much progress so then i have this big refeed day uh and i was and i was talking to katrina about it uh about this and fill back in and then all of a sudden i can see it and and so that actually is what kicked me back up to cycling it was like i need almost that psychological bump every fourth day or so because i go through these three days in a row of like oh i don't like it i'm not going to do it i'm not going to do it i'm not going to do it the way it looks and feels but i know what my body's doing and even though as many times i've done it and i know what's happening there's still a part of it that can be very demoted that's because just for people listening like what's going on like 70 plus percent of your muscles are fluid yeah and water and when you cut your carbs you lose a lot of water water and glycogen and glycogen most all the muscle and so your muscles are it's like think of this way i think it was take a big juicy steak go dehydrate it on a dehydrator and see what it looks like it's all tiny well understand why this is important to the cutting process too sal's that so our muscle bellies work as these huge storage stored energy vessels too so when we're all filled up and we quote unquote like the way we look our gas tanks are full of extra gas outside of what you also consume for fuel and in order to really tap into that body's utilizing body fat as its primary source it's got to burn that it's got to burn that all up and so you got to get that all out you got to deplete that you got to deplete that all out and so you got to get that all out you got to deplete that down so that now the body goes okay we don't have a bunch of stored energy in the muscles let's go over and utilize fat as a source of fuel and do that if you are constantly keeping those extra reserve tanks full the body will tap into that many times which is why by the way a lot of times people that are quote unquote dieting and not seeing the results is they never get low enough they they're eating a little bit less than what they were before but they're still eating enough that their body is storing some of that energy and so that's why we're going to talk about that in in their in their glycogen store right in their muscle bellies and then and then even though they feel low calorie they're tapping into that so there's this necessary evil of getting that depleted so that then the body will then yes and it's it's a very complex part uh process and we're oversimplifying of course the heck out of it but anytime in your deficit even if your carbohydrates are normal you're going to feel more flat but you add on top of that low carbohydrates because you're like hey this is a macronutrient it's easy to cut i don't want to cut protein because i want to preserve muscle and i don't want to cut protein because i want to preserve muscle and i don't want to keep my fats at a certain level because those are essential so i'm going to cut carbs you're going to feel even more flat because your calories are low plus you've got no carbohydrates so your glycogen is low and your fluid's low and in your bustle and so then you work out and you're like what is going on i just look smaller and softer and this won't mess with you it's discouraging and so there's an encouragement encouragement that comes from carb cycling so here's something to consider if you're going to start doing this is to uh cycle your your carbs with purpose cycle like like time them so that it makes sense so when does it make sense to increase your carbohydrates well there's a few different places i can think about one is around important workouts yeah you know tomorrow i'm going to do increased activity yeah i'm going to work out my back and my back is a body part that i really need to focus on or i'm going to work on my glutes or my legs or my delts and these are the body parts i need to focus on so you all know who if you're listening you know the areas that you really want to focus on well make your high carb days the day before and the day of the body part you're going to train to be encouraging to get that pump to get that performance get that strength so time it for those workouts or time it for your hard workouts doesn't have to be a lagging body part you just know i'm squatting on wednesday or i'm dead lifting heavy on thursday it's going to be intense that's the day that i'm going to want those carbohydrates a couple other times that are good ideas to cycle carbs like i sometimes cycle carbs when i'm saving the extra calories for when i'm going out my family do my workouts it's just hey i'm gonna eat more calories on saturday because we're going out to dinner that's going to be my higher carb day because i'll have that allotment on that day and then finally here's a great one bodybuilders do this to get on stage because you look so good i've used carb cycling to go to the beach i've done it to where i come in lean and flat then i refeed the day before so when i hit the beach i just look bigger and leaner and you could do this and by the way uh you know bodybuilders physique bikini competitors when they do photo shoots this is what they're doing these are all those tricks i had no idea yeah and it makes a big difference oh no it makes a huge difference so let me share how um i'm coaching to that with corinne both corinne and katrina since i'm helping katrina right now too with this so uh our standard cycle is three days of low carb and then a refeed day three days low carb refeed day then we switch and i just talked to three one three one three one uh now we'll toggle between a three one uh or a four one and how i determine that is how their workouts fall so what i've coached to both katrina and her corinne is that okay because we have focus areas katrina is focusing on her butt corinne is lower body also is like her main focus so when we have our big lifts our hip thrust days our squad days our deadlift days um let's say you're on um you know it's going to be uh you're getting ready to be on day like let's say uh you just did it or whatever and and you and you're on day two of a of a low day i'll extend another low day so that they can so they can go they can go four low days because they know that next day after that is going to be a high you understand what i'm saying so like you time that for the workout exactly so we time it for the workout so i'll let them extend another low day because it's like it's an upper body it's like hey i know today is supposed to be refeed but it's upper it's upper body let's save it for let's save it so let's run another because we know that you can you can get through an upper body day with low calories both from performance standpoint and for really focusing on that muscle group that we want to so it's like okay if that's an upper body day and today was technically a refeed day go ahead and do another low carb day and then we'll refeed on the fourth day and so i allow them to toggle that based off of what they're working because the workout doesn't always perfectly land on the fourth or the on the refeed day and so when it doesn't perfectly land on it already naturally they have that ability to stretch it out i do the same thing for myself so and you go what three one four one yeah three or four and it'll it'll like for me it's also it's like lower body stuff lifts and so and or it could land on an off day so i won't rarely ever refeed on an off day i want to fuel a workout and so like i just had this yesterday so yesterday should have been a refeed day but it was also a recovery off day and it's like i don't i don't need any extra fuel i'm gonna stay low i'm gonna stay low today and not refeed and so i'll choose to refeed the next day yeah so there's so the classic way to carb cycle is what adam just said which is a three low carb one day refeed or four with a refeed that's one way to do it i've had i've known people here's what i don't like every other day so i've i have friends and i know people that go low carb higher carb lower carb higher carb and they fluctuate their calories every other day i don't necessarily like that because i think you need to feel the effects of getting flat so you can feel the effects of refueling i think it's a good contrast it's a good experience to see how different your body feels with more or less water in your muscles every other day doesn't tend to do that uh you don't get that like that dramatic effect the way i do it as i go monday through friday low carb saturday sunday's high now i time it for two reasons that way one saturday and sunday i'm with my family so if we're gonna get my parents house it's probably gonna be on a saturday or sunday my mom makes great pasta that's gonna be a carbohydrate so i'm gonna have it on those days and it sets me up for monday and mondays tend to be the workouts that i i'm rested i've taken two days off that's the workout that i want to go in crazy pumps and then monday through friday is typically so i go five so i actually think that is a so i would this is how i would do this if i wasn't in like competitive mode right now if like i'm trying to time a date for my birthday get as lean as possible but i think the way like for real life that is a way smarter strategy and how i would coach to that if you were just because every most people monday through friday when there were this is what i found with clients at least in my personal experience is monday through friday people are pretty good about disciplining themselves around their eating they have less they have less temptation to eating out they're normally on a work schedule if they meal prep then they have it's like it's not that hard friday saturday sunday rolls around it's like well that's normally date night or we're a family so structure yeah there's less structure so it makes a lot of sense that this would be the day those would be the days that you allow the higher calorie higher carbohydrates for like long exactly i'm working all day i mean yeah with you guys low carbs low calories no problem no big deal yep yeah but sitting with your family everybody's eating pasta this and that and you get to be like sorry i'm eating my pre-made meals that's lame that sucks especially if you're not competing why am i doing totally and also thursday you know thursdays fridays if i'm with the kids all day long it's also easy for me to go low calories i'm busy i'm taking to the park i'm taking to whatever we're having a good time so i do it that way and then it just so happens mondays i look forward to this workout for two reasons one i rested saturday sunday two days in a row off from working out and then i go in and i get these crazy these crazy pumps when i work out so it's really encouraging all right let's talk about the best carb sources for carb cycling i think the number one thing to consider with carbohydrates uh is digestibility always digestibility what's the easiest one to digest white rice seems to always be at the top for everybody i've ever worked with uh i don't think i've ever worked with anybody uh except for people with really severe gut issues where white rice was ever an issue yeah so white rice is great then the second place and this is my favorite white potatoes with salt now why do i add the salt to it because what i'm looking for is the pump and the sodium helps with the fluid intake so you give me some white potatoes with a lot of salt those starchy carbs plus the sodium i'm going to the next when i work out after doing a couple days of that i'm a different human i look like i gained 15 pounds of muscle after a pump and so it's really really encouraging for me so white rice potatoes are my favorites yeah i'd say i have like a top five but i would say this rice is number one and then the then next is a distant second third fourth and fifth and the reason why that is is digestibility and also just ease of prep and tracking yeah because again i've always got a measure right i've just got to factor that in with with clients you ask them to make uh red potatoes white potatoes which are all things i do and i love like now the scale has to get out now you have to kind of figure out what that looks like what it's six ounces to four ounces to eight what those all look like and what equals 20 grams or like and so you have to figure out what that looks like and then you have to figure it out right and so you have to figure it out right and so you have to figure it out right rice like to justin's point earlier so easy it's like high days it's a cup low days it's a half a cup you know low even lower days it's zero it's like it's it's so easy it's easy to measure with like a like a little cup scooper and so it's like number one for me but then i i love white potatoes red potatoes yellow golden potatoes sweet potatoes yams i mean right now katrina and i are on this kick right now where uh we even she has this little slicer that slices the potatoes so they look like french fries and so we we we bake or or we air fry uh sweet potato looking french fries and just season with a little bit of salt and it just it feels and there's something about the it's so funny because we were just i was just doing cubes like a month ago but there's something about eating it like a french fry that makes me feel like i'm having a french fry that's it's funny the psychology of that and so yeah i like but i have to weigh those things so that to me they become uh they're they're second uh distant from the white rice now i will say any carbohydrates can can be used in this way avoid ones that are hard to digest but i'll say this this is a honorable mention fruit yeah it's healthy for you tends to not be a great way to carb load for some reason i think it has to do with the volume and the fiber of eating fruit like a bolt like if i want 60 grams of carbohydrates from rice uh or potato it's pretty easy 60 grams of carbohydrate from fruit is a lot of fruit unless you're juicing it in which case i'm still not a big fan of that it's like a big ass bowl of fruit um and you can do it it's not a problem and i know people who do this uh but for me it was never uh the best option yeah no i agree with that though i will say this so to because i had to really add in a bunch of fruit i was early on i was not i wasn't getting enough vegetables and i wasn't getting enough fruit because my fiber was really low that's where the food fruit is kick spot and that's where the fruit is really valuable um and so and typically berries are the best right now i have for this chopped up black berry and asian pear a huge bowl in the refrigerator that i'm using that's awesome now last thing i'll say is the data shows that carb cycling does not uh enhance fat loss that's true that's what the studies show here's what i'm going to tell you though in my experience working with people it does work better it has nothing to do with the science it has nothing to do with anything magical that's happening in the body but people tend to have a better time with it and this is why carb cycling uh is such an advantage and don't discredit that so you may read studies and be like and be like oh well i'm just going to follow what the study says do not discredit your experience everybody i'm gonna tell you something right now carb cycling feels better for most people it makes your workouts more fun you look forward to the higher carb days psychologically flexibility to like you said on the weekends and stuff totally totally 100 i'm glad you ended on that because i feel like that's there's this has been like kind of the theme of the stuff that i've been sharing as i've gone through this is like there's several things and uh fasting cardio was another one of those things like we're very aware of the science i know that it's been debunked if all things are controlled calories are the same fasted or fed but who lives in a controlled way exactly but in practice what i find is it's an incredible strategy for somebody to kick up fat loss when they weren't doing that before i would add this to that list this is we know that carb cycling isn't doing anything magically with a it's just creating a calorie reduction on certain days and other days you're at maintenance probably uh and so there's not a lot of people that are doing that and i think that's a great way to you guys are saying like some people are like oh i could easily go low carb those days and then you have something to look forward to on friday or whatever day and that sounds good to me yeah it just it's it works really really well i'm reminded of how well it works and how much i like it right now even though i'm aware of what the science is all right so i i was doing a crazy amount of effects on the body uh because for a couple for a couple reasons so one i was having some we're hanging out with some friends and uh we were talking about some of this experience that some people have when they drink sometimes this happens to my wife too have you guys ever heard the term hang anxiety it's like hangover never no i haven't heard that term so this is relatively common this happens to my wife and it can happen pretty nasty to her uh but when i've talked to other people they're like oh that kind of happens to me too so here's what happens you'll drink Maybe you had a lot, maybe you didn't have a ton, but you had, you know, a couple drinks or whatever and then you'll go to bed and you'll have crappy sleep everybody talks about that right we know this is pretty clear the data shows like alcohol just it doesn't do it doesn't do well but here's an experience some people have they'll go to bed they'll fall asleep okay they'll wake up in the middle of night and there's a couple things that they'll feel and this is this is uh this is characteristic of what i'm talking about they'll wake up sweaty uh and they'll have a sense of doom or dread or racing thoughts they'll wake up and just feel bad and think about things and they're just it's like it's anxiety in the middle of night and they feel like crap and this is called anxiety so i did some research on this because this will happen to my wife she'll wake up in the middle of night if she drinks sometimes and she's like man i'll just think about all these just negative thoughts basically so i looked it up so here's what happens alcohol raises uh a neurotransmitter or inhibitory neurotransmitter the brain called gaba this is what makes you feel chill when you're buzzed and cool and you feel good one of the things that that it does uh and it lowers something called glutamate glutamates this excitatory neurotransmitter well when the alcohol starts to blood alcohol starts to drop which happens around 2 a.m right you go to bed you're kind of buzzed you fell asleep if you drink too much maybe not but let's say you just had enough you're okay you fell asleep and the blood sugar shoots then the the the blood alcohol starts to drop and you're kind of buzzed you fell asleep if you drink too much maybe not but let's say you just had enough you're kind of buzzed you fell asleep and the blood sugar shoots your body rebounds by dropping gaba and boosting glutamate so then you wake up anxious you wake up hot sweaty feeling like crap this sense of dread the sense of impending doom like what's going on and that's what's happening it's a rebound effect of neurotransmitters uh that's occurring i've definitely had that i know for sure yeah well the um the raise in body temperature alone is something that i've noticed every time i've had drinks before i've had a drink i've had a drink and it's it's definitely like i didn't know if that had to do with you know something with the metabolism and yeah definitely the um you know the spike in blood sugar do you have the bad thoughts too where you wake up you're sick uh something i mean it depends yeah sometimes i'll have that kind of dread yeah yeah because it's i think you start thinking about it and dude yeah you just you think about the rest of your day is gonna suck so what it is is it's uh it's your physiology driving your psychology so you've got these neurotransmitters that are off you got this rebound effect and because you feel like crap you think about something whatever you're thinking about which could be a stressful thing like oh man that thing i gotta do feels way worse yeah and so then you can get stuck in this little is there it affects your circadian rhythms too doesn't it oh yeah big time is there is there a relationship to acetaldehyde with that too no so that's the other one so acetaldehyde uh which you're you know when you drink alcohol acetaldehyde is part of the metabolic system or the metabolism of it and your liver breaks it down pretty damn well but some of it's released in your gut acetaldehyde uh is not good for you and that's the inflammation the toxic feeling i feel like garbage i feel like crap so uh this is why uh so z biotics is a company we work with this is why people swear by z biotics yeah now z biotics is so for people listening it's pretty wild is that just like herbs or is that just like you know uh electrolytes no no z biotics is an actual probiotic but what they did is they modified so this is the only company that does this so this is their patent pending bacteria they own the patent yes for the they've created bacteria that produce an enzyme that's what this bacteria does so you drink z biotics then you drink hang out with your friends this bacteria is releasing this enzyme in the gut that breaks down acetaldehyde into uh these kind of um you know harmless uh byproducts and so this is why people are like oh my god i when i have z biotics i feel way better from from yeah amazing it's the breaking down the acetaldehyde percent i'm not crazy anybody who's like taking it and you know had a bad experience or like feel way better yeah way better and even like i think i told this a long time ago but i have a friend who's like an actual rock star and was like you know put it to the test even beyond alcohol and was like no i felt like way better than i should have yeah yeah well when we did that one experiment oh god experiment oh yeah when it went kind of out of hand that was our experiment yeah we went hard uh and i first that was the drunkest i haven't been that drunk since and before that i think the i don't think i ever got that drunk except for maybe in my 20s i for sure was like there's no way we're gonna be able to work yeah no way he just re-watched that i did i'm actually putting together a photo book for the first 10 years of the company oh cool and i didn't have any actual photos of that but i did have the instagram posts i've done some screenshots and hopefully they print well but i watched that whole video that was uh a little unhinged i think justin you ended up with what 11 shots oh my god something crazy like we all had to get rides home none of us drove home we were just 11 oh my god you know what the problem was the drinking game we thought was gonna be too slow so we changed the rules yeah that's so that we take shots faster yeah well i think 30 minutes and we need some mike pre just so we're like oh this is gonna take forever so we don't want to film here we don't want to be here all day we're just like let's speed this up yeah dude good idea later we're just my family especially this time of year i go through my crazy because all my family you know that's interesting i do you think it do you know the um the buying habits of the average consumer is does alcohol ramp up this past for the holiday yeah for like november december into the new year it has to be i would bet yeah i don't know like i'm curious if that be the case and i wonder if z biotic feels that like do they see a huge are they like this back half of their you know i've seen them before they do really well i don't know i don't know really good by the way do you know i've seen them sold at bevmo and i've seen a couple bars they're starting to finally get into the bars and stuff i was like they should be in every bar yeah they increase the alcohol sales and consumption increase significantly oh wow they jump by 40 holy cow wow in december well two reasons one you're celebrating with family two you're sad some people get really sad and then three years around the corner which is one of the probably the biggest also cold outside yeah wow wow i figure they would go up i didn't realize i want so i want i wonder if z biotic sees a huge surge in q4 probably that would make sense i would imagine it'd be weird if it didn't with that dude uh talking about experiments i did this uh you know you guys know how i've been bricking my phone recently oh you told us yeah you're going brick so there's this so basically so i have this device it's called brick there's no affiliation so they get a free commercial but basically you tap your phone on it and then whatever you decide to shut off on your phone gets shut off and then the only way to shut it back on or turn things back on is you have to go back to the device and you have to go back to the device and you have to go back to the device and tap your phone manually yeah so i'll brick my phone leave my phone and excuse me the brick in another room and then you know it's pretty so i have like a barrier i have to go walk over and i'm breaking time so yesterday's the first day i did it all day i used no text no social media nothing yeah the only thing uh is that someone could call if they needed me they could call me that's why i texted you guys if you need me call me otherwise i won't get a text yeah bro the attachment we have to our phones i can't speak for everybody for me the attachment i phone is purely psychological it's baloney yeah halfway through the day didn't care yeah could care less yeah in the beginning of the day i could find myself that's why he's so angry about it because i did the same thing and dude i actually took my kids fishing and you're out there and they're like their phones are nowhere to be found their friends phones nowhere to be found they're just super busy you know out there in nature figuring it out although i'll be honest like taking a bunch of teenagers who've never like really fished before it was like i didn't get the fish dude i was like re-rigging everybody's stuff like the whole time i had to like totally reframe this whole experience is like i'm trying to like usher like this enjoyment you know for them to like focus on just fishing and being in nature and i'm like i'm just like trying to like stoke this and that was like my goal so you don't have your phone at all i didn't have my phone and and then the whole rest of the day as a result of that just didn't even look at it bro i in the i wanted to see what's going on i didn't halfway through the day forgot all about it by the end of the day i'm like do i even want to check i don't even care checked nothing i'm like wow i missed out on nothing i wasn't on social media i don't care of course i see a text you know come through you know from earlier in the day about did you see what's going on whatever did you see the thing that happened and i'm like no i didn't you're supposed to be angry right now what's happening and it's better dude i could care less yeah so i'm gonna try more days like this where i just yeah because look you need to get a hold of me just call me if somebody's gonna hold me just call me i don't need everything yeah just turn it off remember when we wanted to start that trend a couple years ago i wish you would i i wish we would have it's not too late we could talk we could talk about how we'd launch it or do it but we talked about posting like once a week a black square on our uh on our instagram and everything's off with all all social goes down all of our phones go down and see if we could start a trend where everybody gets off being online for a single and see if that would take off at all i mean i i experienced this just recently i remember i told you guys when i went on my drive for three days i mean three days to be offline was like and it's just like it reminds me so good it would feel good yeah it reminds me of fasting which it's fasting from your technology and phone at the beginning it seems hard and then all of a sudden by day two it's like you don't even think about it it's think about your food your food experience of a 72 hour fast same thing yeah so you feel like oh my god it's gonna be so hard after you miss your first meal or your by the way food's necessary right right exactly like exactly so it's like it's even more than that because it's like you really don't you're not hungry you know at all it's like you get you go a while and you realize like oh it's not as necessary as i thought it was oh it's not that big of a deal at all and so no it's it was really refreshing uh to string three days in a row of just being i'm doing it on sundays for now so sabbath so i'm going to practice all day on sundays and i think what i'm going to do is when i come to work i may do it as well uh and then because my wife needs me she'll just call me and just keep it this is probably the hardest time for me i would admit when i'm home and i'm doing stuff like that it's not hard for me at all um and katrina and i are pretty good about holding each other accountable my son's really good about holding us accountable when my kid tells me it breaks my heart oh yeah yeah yeah that's a that's a big deal that's a big deal for me yeah and i've given him permission like that you ever see daddy and and i'll tell him and like so my discipline or katrina's we've agreed is like hey obviously we run a business that has a lot of moving parts a lot right like there's you never know what we're doing um on what day and you can't control everything right i mean there's we're in the middle of a new lease agreement for example and it's like i've got to be talking to people on a normally off day you know so but what we agree is this like hey you go go to the office or go the other room out of the family room like we're not all out so we don't so he doesn't see us or like that so we're we're pretty good about that dude so you sent me a link uh maybe three or four days ago about how they're passing legislation to uh basically create regulatory uh pathways for peptides so uh dude the peptide space has already exploded but it's about to blow the heck up because the administration is creating right now pathways for companies to be able to do this legally through doctor prescription the whole deal and as soon as the typical doctor gets a hold of peptides sees the benefit of them whatever it's over do you think we're interesting i think it's gonna you know why the they work so well the money is there uh and people are going to demand it i mean it's a huge i mean insulin is a peptide right yes and so that's obviously and they're already widely prescribed with gps and they're warming up to peptides with the glps yeah they're all prescribing the heck out of terzepatide i'm sure that was the introduction but now bpc kpv c max like mot c they're creating the peptide space for people to be able to do this they're creating a pathway for this to happen and which also by the way means that and they've already they're sending letters and doing stuff they're going to make it harder and almost impossible for these gray market companies to sell i would imagine they're going to pursue that a lot more aggressively you know any of the gray market companies yeah what is it eli lily like if i mean are they they're out there like after a lot of compound oh yeah you know i wonder though if this is going to fall out of control i don't know if it's going to fall out of control i don't know if it's going to follow the same path as medical marijuana did so i remember being in right in the thick of all this and i remember very similar type of like unfolding yeah and i remember when it was just like oh my god they're going to let like regular like not even a dispensary anymore it's like stores can have it in certain states that this is just going to destroy the black market and it didn't happen um because if they still put so much red tape around it and and there's so many there's still a lot of regulation and it's got to go through all this and the prices stay really high it'll still stay i agree with you so i think the black market will exist the gray market oh yeah is what's going to get smashed sure yeah because right now you can go online find some research chemical company and order it yeah that's going to get crushed because that's easy to capture that's easy to crush yep black market yeah sure you can still buy some you know you buy your your steroids and your and your pet from the guy at the hospital you know good luck to you you know but the gray market is what's going to get killed that's where they're going to go after yeah but i i think that what'll be interesting is to see how much the the because okay does the average consumer who already buys these things on the gray market get pushed to the legalized market or do they get pushed to the black market i would argue most of them get pushed to the black i think most of them will go will go legit because oh i disagree i think most of the consumers from the gray market are not like these bodybuilder types they're not but they're very price driven they are but where are they going to go dude right they're going to go to the guy in the gym no buy it out of the back of a star do you really think it's like all the people you know like friends of yours not i'm not talking about like right right right bodybuilder already doing that yeah a lot of the the gray market people are like already seeking out people to they will just go to friends a lot of them already go to a friend right now who's their trusted source who gets it but where are their friends getting it from sure so okay are you going to go to a friend right now who's their trusted source who gets it so what you know so what it'll what it'll look like in my opinion they're gonna have to go through a drug dealer yes it will and i'm willing to bet you a lot of money on it what it'll look like is you think they'll be yes a hundred percent gonna go buy it from a drug dealer well they already technically are no they're buying it from a gray market no they're not they're not buying it online from a gray market they're buying it from a friend who is doing all the sourcing for them who they trust who they they're too they're too the friends we're talking that you and i are talking about right now are too lazy to go online and search the best gray marketplaces anyways they'd rather go get it from their buddy they work out with who has said this is the best they're the best pharmacy i'm getting it from and i can get it to you for 50 bucks like mrs johnson yes black market yes dude 100 if the only way right look if they make the price is so that's right so crazy and they will so what you'll see is this right now the gray market is making a ton of money that will shrink because they're able to sell it at almost the exact same price as what the regulated market is which is astronomical compared to what they're getting the gray market prices for but when it goes more full legal like you're saying it will bring those prices down a little bit not a lot but a little bit right and then they'll have to compress their margins and so but not by a lot but it's still still have enough that they'll be able to undercut the the legal way by a ton and so i and i i'm willing to bet 80 of the people that are on the gray market right now will go to the black market and not go so doug look this up for me because there is still a black market for marijuana but it's nowhere near what i love that the internet tries to calculate how much black i know i just want to see these are the people that are the black market that report their income i just want to see how they get these how do you even get into the dark web can you say how much how much has the legalization of marijuana affected the black market just put that in there because here's what i know i don't know anybody who smokes weed who buys weed from the black market anymore so i know anybody so i'm the opposite of you then i don't know anybody that buys from a dispensary because it's not it's different people it's the in in in the in the cannabis world it's the crappier more expensive weed the best stuff stays on the black market it has not eliminated but i want to see how much it's we don't there's no way for them to know is there what it has done since i'm still but you're right so what it has done is this so uh and i'll give you like literally up-to-date numbers well over 60 percent of consumed marijuana in california is black market but that's more than half dog yeah but that used to be 100 hey by the way that's what's reported okay so listen let me tell you from from somebody who's very connected to all of that stuff the government messes everything up so what it did was this so back when i was involved with this god how long ago was it i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know it was 10 plus years now it's been a long time right so when i was involved in it the most uh premium marijuana like a bag of it right a pound of it would run you 3 500 to 4 000 that the same level of stuff in fact i'd argue it's even better now because the science has evolved and more growers are better numbers back then yeah 3 500 on the black market or in the dispensary didn't matter was they were all around that that right now i can pick up for like 1200 bucks in the black market some if you're connected to the farm if you go direct to the farmer 800 bucks for that that was 3 500 dude yeah so that's so what it's done is the black market has had their margins it's very hard now competing yeah very hard for for black market drug dealers and make a lot of like the money they were making back in the days but they still are they're still out competing the the legit market because the legit market has a lesser product for more money now in the peptide world you'll get a better product but the black market people will argue it's just as good or the same thing and it's way cheaper you know where i you know where i was totally wrong on all of this uh it was back when we were seeing all this start to happen with the like medical marijuana and then they're going to legalize it per state or whatever i thought that the legalization of cannabis would reduce overall yeah i thought less people will use cannabis because part of the draw is the taboo and the whatever the that's not true at all i was totally wrong it's not but i still i still don't think that the jury is out on that like it'd be interesting to see like i don't know the laws of like in germany and so that when they when the alcohol was like was it always set that low so i think that we'll go through a generation or at least a half of a generation of a spike in a run and then i think it will settle down i think it still is novel there's still there's still i still know uh 60 year olds that i don't know if they're going to be able to get rid of it but i think it's still going to be interesting to see what happens but i think it's still going to be interesting to see what happens but i think it's still going to be interesting to see what happens so i think it's still going to be interesting to see what happens but i think it's still going to be interesting to see what happens but i think it's still going to be interesting to see what happens but i think it's still going to be interesting to see what happens but i think it's still going to be interesting to generation of like everybody can get weed it ain't a big deal i think we will see that here's why i don't this is why i disagree because we saw alcohol uh through prohibition then through legalization more people drink alcohol now but there's always ups and downs here's why i disagree though what i didn't account for was the power of american marketing and consumerism and just the how what what our markets do they're so powerful is they create narratives they change beliefs around things they do this very very well and so because marijuana the more legal it gets the more you're going to see them promote it as this thing that everybody can use medicinal all these it's just just like look i used to be like hey you know uh consenting adults want to pay for sex then let them do it i don't i don't see why it should be illegal this was a very libertarian approach yeah now i'm like no i don't think it's a good idea because you know what happened if we legalized it it would take 10 years before it was this accepted way of being because our markets are so damn powerful i think it's and we're so easily manipulated it's even more nefarious now for me to look at it because it's i i see it hitting the the youth the underage market so much more effectively now because of the um you know the the way that it's like with the baby it's easy for them to conceal it's easy for them to take from their parents it's easy for them you know to steal it like and then consume it it's like they don't have to like all the things are packing the bowl like rolling like they don't have to do any of that stuff they just hit this little vape in class every day it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's everywhere well i definitely think it's it's playing a massive role in what you talked about these stats earlier about how we've seen such a decline in young people drinking i think a lot are smoking instead yep 100 so i think i think uh you know getting high in high school and maybe even middle school has become far more popular than getting drunk was and so and i don't know if that's i don't know if that's a better or worse thing um per se but i do think again just like just like we saw the how our how we're seeing alcohol has fallen out of favor with these kids i think it'll make its comeback and i think weed will fall off i don't think it'll fall off completely i think uh whatever will remain like it'll it's a drug it'll be up there i think what we're going to see in the future honestly i was just talking with my friend about this uh with ai because ai biotech companies right now are using ai to come up with drugs do you guys know this oh wow they're they're the the ai understands pathways yeah they can they get tested a million times within its own so it just simulates it yeah it simulates drugs and it goes through 10 000 combinations spits out three that have an 80 something percent chance of working now the pharma company can look at the three pick one and then boom i think we're going to reach a point where you get designer drugs yeah forget all the drugs we know about people are gonna be able to make their own designer drugs i don't disagree because ai is going to show them what to do and it's going to know their own body nailed that again minority report i swear yeah yeah yeah minority like some weird drug he was taking that was euphoric and so i i agree with that way more and i think that'll actually have a decline and we because of that just that alone because that will become it'll be novel it'll be novel it'll be new i mean i mean we're so predictable as humans like we repeat predictable we repeat so many behaviors and cycles that it's really not that different than what it was thousands of years ago the drugs look a little bit different the way they do it looks a little bit different but the human behavior aspect of it so i think what you're speaking to right now is we are in the the peak marijuana phase right now because it's went from being completely bad banned and illegal to almost fully legal everywhere and so yeah everyone's having a heyday on it and then after a while they'll be like okay it's not that cool the new novel minority report thing will come out and then no one will care about weed okay so i i'm going to change topics here i was also doing some reading on body temperature and sleep and how big of a role body temperature or the right and the quality of your sleep so here's some of the stuff that happens this is general but there are individual variances this is generally what happens when uh you sleep or when you're going to sleep so in the evening your core temperature peaks in the late afternoon early evening then it falls in the hours before bed so before bed when your body's predicting it's time to go to bed soon your body temperature naturally that's interesting after you fall asleep there's an additional sleep related decrease beyond just lying still and you're not going to be able to feel so overall your core temperature falls about 0.5 to 1 degree celsius or one to two degrees fahrenheit from daytime levels the lowest point is in the second half of the night this is when it's the your body goes down the most is this when we're around uh i believe let me see ram uh slow wave and deep and ram sleep tends to be associated with fuller cooling rem can show brief modest rises or more variable thermoregulation so it's actually more variable uh so then in the morning your temperature starts to climb towards the morning which aligns with waking with your wake up so this is your body's natural that's so cool so here's what's cool about this everybody's a little different with this um and by the way uh this is why the data shows like a really cool room and cool bed is like the best thing i have to have for sleep yeah it's the best thing but there's a variance there what may be cool for you for the person next to you or their body temperature fluctuates a little differently from what you're experiencing in the morning than yours does and then hormones play a role menopause and the paramenopause listen you we know this we train lots of women in middle age that was most of our clients when we were trainers but if you're listening right now and you're menopause you know exactly what happens you go to bed and then you wake up and you're sweating and you can't get your body temperature right and that totally messes up your sleep and that's all due to hormones so this is why i think the future and you know uh eight sleep is like on they are the forefront they are the forefront why are they forefront there's a lot of devices that are on the forefront they're the forefront they're the forefront devices that cool your bed now uh although eight sleep's the best there's lots of devices that go on your bed and cool it only eight sleep monitors your sleep and then uses their own ai to adjust it on the fly yeah so your sleep yeah gets perfect all night long based on your body temperature and your movement and it knows when to cool when to warm you know it's time to wake up let's warm you up time to go let's cool it down here's your ram your rems a little bit off we're going to do this with the temperature and it just adjusts to you i feel like that's why it kicks so much i feel like anybody who has a partner that they sleep with has to know how what you alluded to a variance it's a massive variance my wife and i are nowhere opposite spectrum yeah nowhere near the same the way our temperature is regulated and so yeah i sleep on the cover she sleeps under the covers yeah that's how different it is so i mean the yeah that it's way different so trying to manage that individually in a bed is and with the room temperature because if it was up to me the house would be down to 65 and it's like the one of my favorite parts about eight sleep is i i've told you guys i've been able to just keep our house was 72 degrees upstairs which would never work for me if it was if i did not have the eight sleep cooling me and controlling that temperature i could not have the room be that that warm and she loves it that warm i think the people that write in uh menopause they get the biggest game if you if you if you're going through menopause and you don't have eight sleep holy are you missing out yeah because it doesn't it's not a pill it's not a hormone it's nothing chemical it's literally just your body's temp is going up it senses it cools you down keeps you asleep by the way we're giving one away tomorrow oh yeah for free oh we're talking about one of the sickest big giveaway so when you go to our instagram page uh we're going to do an ig live at 4 p.m pacific standard time and we're going to give one away and you can enter the way you enter or get entries if you go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and get a program or a bundle uh that's how you do it by the way black friday is a code they can see discount on everything right now the sickest part about this right now like i'm looking up jug has this cast on the tv and i can see who the top 10 leaders in entries are right now if you go to the the what's the the page they can go to it's live uh what is it doing it's live.mpgiveaway.com oh so then you can just go and get a free entry not only that the people can actually see their odds of winning oh wow so based off of your entries and by the way you get you can get entries for resharing posts on mind pump you get entries for uh programs you get entries for bundles and so you can get entries a lot of different ways free ways and ways by getting maps fitness products and once you have entries you're entered in all the giveaways all month long and it keeps track of your odds of winning and you can see the leaderboard on who has the most entries it's awesome tomorrow it's an eight sleep at one point we're giving away a vacation yeah we're giving away red light all kinds of cool stuff really cool stuff and it's on ig live uh so go check it out our place makes the best cookware by the way it's forever chemical free that means you can use it and it's non-stick and it looks good it lasts a long time but you're not ingesting and 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By the way, we have a discount for 10% off. Go to fromourplace.com, use the code mindpump, get 10% off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Jacob from Oklahoma. What's up, Jacob? How you doing, Jacob? What's happening? What's up, guys? Man, this is crazy. I've been listening to you guys for so long and I shouldn't be nervous to get on this call, but I was like kind of anxious. How can we help you? Man, so I'm a business owner. I've had a landscape company since 2014. My original dream was opening up my own gym and at 18, 19 years old, I had this big extravagant, you know, three-tier multi-million dollar gym, great business plan, went to the bank and they're like, you have no money and no credit. So. This isn't happening. And just followed my dream as being an entrepreneur. I've grown a great landscape business, but I'm at the point now where I'm wanting to kind of get my foot in the door opening up a gym, but I'm wanting to lean more towards a personal training studio, but structuring it like almost like how salon owners do with booth threat. We don't really. have anything like that in this area. I didn't know if you guys were familiar with something like that or had any advice on, you know, you know, what to charge trainers per month to utilize this space. Jacob, where are you located at? Where in the country are you? I'm in Yukon, Oklahoma. Okay. Now what's the goal with doing this? Why do you want to own one of these? Well, I've always wanted to own my own gym. I'm looking for number one, number two, a second avenue, uh, for income. And number three, every single gym I've gone to for like the past five years ends up getting bought out. They put an old pair of shoes in a new shoe box. You give it about five years and it goes under. And so initially I was like, I'm just going to buy space and have my own stinking gym. And, and I was like, well, man, let's, let's make some money out of it. And let's go back to what Jake wanted to do in 2014 and do something with that. You won't make any money off it. If you want your own gym, you're going to have to make some money off it. You're going to have to own gym. That's cool. Uh, buy a space, do your own thing. What you're talking about, uh, is a very difficult business. Uh, at best your trainers would, by the way, having people come in and pay you to rent your space. The idea is I'm going to get a bunch of self, you know, some like, um, growth minded entrepreneur trainers are going to come in and build their business. No, you're not. You're going to get people who are going to try to pay. And then you're going to have to help them build their business. And I know this cause I did this in, uh, Silicon Valley, which is a much better area to open one of these. And just like hair salons, there's a high turnover rate. Your trainer comes in and he's paying you $500 a month for their, they, they last three months. And it's hands-on dude. Like if you have a successful business already, like to think that you'll do this and it'll be like this part-time thing that you just hop in and they do their own thing. Like you have to like live. I, I, I, I had to be in there and I had to help them build their business. It was very difficult at best. They'll make money off of your own training type of deal. Uh, I mean, I know you're calling in about the gym. I'm actually more interested in the landscape business. Um, okay. So is it in a, is it in a, do you have guys working for you and doing a lot of the labor or are you doing all the labor too? No, I, uh, I pop in with them one or two days a week. Um, just to kind of help with morale. Okay. Um, but other than that, I'm, I'm selling jobs. I'm networking doing, billing, stuff like that. Um, I'm not in the field that often. Okay. So, I mean, I, I would imagine that the selling and networking is probably one of the most important things that you do, keeping the revenue and keeping new clients coming in. And, and so if I could outsource that, find somebody that has sales skills as good or better than mine, uh, to do that, to keep that, uh, lead flow going, then I could go over and I could go, you know, build a gym that probably is not, it's not going to be very profitable, but it could at least break even. So I own my gym and have that, that would be kind of the, the idea that you would go scale a million dollar or even a six figure, good, solid gym business while also managing a landscape business, probably not going to, probably not going to happen. Um, but, but if you could automate what the landscape is and actually keep it afloat without really having to do much, but maybe dip in and do the morale thing every now and then, because you've got someone who's selling, who's creating the leads that business is going to be, you know, it's going to be, you know, it's going to be, you know, kind of going and it's keeping you with a nice little bit of revenue every month that I can go over and I can go build this kind of gym idea that you have with the hairstyle. But those things, bro, they, they most everyone I know, Justin worked in one of those, the guy who owned it was a full-time software engineer and on the right, he was a software engineer. Yeah. Yeah. Software engineer. And then on the side, he has this gym and the gym literally with like, I mean, Justin had like 15, 20 trainers and it barely broke even. And I, I was so fascinated with the business. I used to always sit down with them. And ask him all these questions about how the business model and he was really smart. They had some of the best trainers. Oh yeah. We would consider it a successful gym. It was a successful gym. And even he was like, yeah, no, this thing doesn't make the hours effort and energy. It took you to build your landscaping business. You're going to have to put at least that much, if not more into building a gym on the side, bro, you already got a successful business. You got a family. I mean, if you want to do that and you want to go start something brand new and grind for years to make it happen, I'd say, okay, cool. But if you're like, look, I just love the idea of having my own gym, bro, just bought, just buy a space, build your own gym. And then if you got friends that want to work out there, do your thing, dude, and then go lift and have a great time and curate like the sickest gym that you can go work out in. But building a side business like that while you're already successful with the family. Uh, yeah, I don't think that's, does the, does the owning the gym part interest you more or do you actually really have a passion for training? Do you want to train people? I was going to say, you can make more money. I love training people. I did strength and conditioning. So like, uh, you know, 14 to like 25, still middle school, high school, college athletes. I did a bunch of Olympic lifting and power lifting. Um, that's like, I love that. And so it was kind of a combination of if I can get the space and have my own gym and have these trainers at least cover my overhead, I can still train out of there. And I might not make, I might make a killing, but as long as I'm not losing any money, I'm a, I'd be okay with that. Yeah. That's not, that's not a bad goal. And so my advice would be start incredibly small and outgrow the first place. So in other words, I would, I would lease a CrossFit box type place, warehouse, shitty, cheap, put some squat racks, dumbbells, the basic and, and try and get two or three other trainers that are willing to split the rent with you. And you're going to be able to hustle your clients out there. And then to the point where the three of you trainers are basically handling the lease because it's not a big lease. And then you outgrow that because you have so many clients, they have so many clients, and then you grow into a big one. Or what will probably happen is those guys turn over all the time and you're always looking for another one, but you at least don't have a huge overhead. You're training people like you like, you got your own kind of little space. Don't bite off more than you can chew and think that a bigger facility, more equipment nicer is going to attract a bunch of more clients and customers and trainers. Go prove that you can be a personal trainer, make good money doing it in a small little garage box, and then go and scale above that. That would be my advice. But I'll say, look, I'll just look just to make it like as real as possible. Justin, Adam and myself have worked in this space for decades in a very wealthy part of the country. So there's no not short of money and not short on interest in personal training. So it's probably one of the things that we need to do. We need to be able to do it. How many trainers that we've known that are entrepreneur minded and can do that? Go ahead and ask us. And I'll tell you right now, it's like less than three that I've ever met. Well, even none of them make a ton of money. Yeah. Even the ones that are successful don't, don't make a lot of money. I mean, uh, it's just, and the thing too, you brought up that gym that I was training at, like, uh, each one of us probably made, you know, way more money than the owner just with our own training business. And that was kind of where I was like, you know, listening to you guys riff about that. Like if you do have a passion for that, you know, that's an opportunity. I really do think that like, if you could find somebody else to carry that overhead and then you kind of come in and start really slowly building your own clientele, you're going to, it's just a, it's, it's a better path in terms of like, if you want to sustain that versus the, you know, the route of owning the gym. A hundred percent. Yeah. Well, and I will say, I mean, where I'm at is one of, um, wealthiest towns in Oklahoma, um, has more gyms per capita than any city in Oklahoma and churches. Um, and I just, uh, you know, in the, in the rent, like I wanted to ask you when you had your space, you know, what was your overhead for, you know, 2000 square foot space? Cause I'm looking at my place was smaller than that. And I, my, my rent was 5,000, $200 a month. That didn't include now I'm up here in the Bay area, Los Gatos, by the way, it's more now. It'd probably be closer now, $6,500. Now I charge my trainers. seven hundred and fifty dollars a month and i had offices that i rented for eight hundred dollars a month remember this is 1975 this is a long time ago this was uh you know this is like 15 you know 17 18 years ago yeah i would say that that same place is at least seven seven eight thousand dollars a month rent and trainers would have to pay closer to 800 850 a month now trainers around here still pay around 800 bucks a month that hasn't changed much yeah it's just not a bro telling you right now it's just tough yeah listen uh possible the only reason justin never owned a studio because he was smart the only reason why i owned a studio is because i i didn't like work i didn't want anybody over me so i'd rather own a place and work 15 hours a day than make more money working eight hours a day which is you know call me stupid but that's just my i was just how i felt but you're better off just training in a studio paying their rent dude and building up your clientele if that's what you want to do or like i said like a like literally you know i'm talking about like a warehouse style garage like bare bones yeah hardly like a crossfit type of vibe but you're but you're training clients out of that listen go you could clients will come to see you it will have nothing to do with the equipment yep they don't give a culture yeah so the trainers always make this mistake of like you know it needs to look this way and the location's got to be so good and i had the best equipment and the best like no like people train because they love the trainers they'll train in a in your they'll train in your garage bro so you know go go go prove that first and take low risk while you have a good business behind you already and go go out grow it and then you're like oh shit i've got this thing is loaded and i got two other trainers that are loaded we're gonna we're stuffed in here which by the way is a good vibe you know when you got when you got a place cracking with people and stepping on each other because so many people want to be in this little you know training box you have and then you just let them know hey i'm gonna we're gonna get a bigger place don't worry real soon here like i'm i mean go do that first uh you'll you'll be less stressed out over doing that and then and then you you'll be ready and it'll it'll it'll help prepare you for the bigger place too and give a much better clear picture of what you'll need to make in order to sustain a you know 5 000 square foot place okay okay yeah awesome yeah you got it man man i appreciate your time and you guys are you guys are awesome you guys been a huge blessing for me over the past couple years i'm a dad of four and hearing you guys stories and with work and family and faith and cracking jokes it's uh i listen to you guys every day well god bless you man and great job on your business bro yeah you got you're so young and you're young you got kids like great job dude yeah you're the man jacob appreciate you brother best of luck to you thank you guys take it easy see you yeah if you if you always feel bad crushing i know this is what i really do you really you want him to go experience that no no no we want to die with four kids too well we got to be real dude bro like listen let's if you want to make if you like money don't go in the gym business if you like you're working little hours don't go in the gym business if you love gyms so much that you're willing to make almost no money and sleep on the floor go open a gym you gotta literally you gotta have that mentality it's because that's what it is it's not a money making bit i know we got companies that make all this money but look at who they are lifetime fitness the capital that they're coming in with it's crazy and the volume that they need to generate uh to do that uh it's wild so no our next caller is amanda from arizona hi amanda how you doing amanda hello i'm good how are you guys we're good how can we help you um yeah so i wanted to give some of my background and kind of my current goals um i also wanted to ask a question about how to get into nutritional coaching so i'll just start with my background um i've been really into lifting the last five years but i've had a lot of seasons of being really into the gym and then seasons where either i was going to college or like you know different things where there's transition where i couldn't lift as much or where my food changed um so yeah and i just started taking progressive overload seriously about a month and a half ago and i've had um really good progress so far um a little information on the last year so i had been lifting very consistently last fall and then i started marathon training and it kind of switched to more running and so i've been doing a lot of i was lifting about two times a week but running four times a week and having a long run and i did that for about um seven months and i actually gained fat during the training and i think i lost muscle and in may i started seeing a nutritionist and she immediately put me in a cut um without any building um and then i did my marathon june 7th and she brought my calories were probably around two thousand eight hundred and she brought them down to about one thousand seven hundred and so um i did start seeing like some progress in my body fat going down which was was really good to see but i wasn't focused on progressive overload over the summer i was just focused on lowering my body fat percentage um by the end of the summer i went from around 33 the beginning i was at 33 body fat and then i went down to 27 body fat but then i was seeing i wasn't really having like the muscular physique i was wanting as much i don't think i built as much muscle beforehand as i would have wanted and so i started listening to your guys's podcast about a month and a half ago and um i brought my calories back up after listening and started just lifting really heavy um and then i started doing the concierge coaching about a month ago as well all right and yeah i started um with i was going to give like my lifts and telling you how much stronger i've gotten but my barbell squat september 5th was 120 pounds now it's 160 pounds my leg was 139 now it's 319 my chest was 135 now it's 225 my pull-up assist was 95 pounds assist now it's 70 pounds assist my deadlift was 45 pounds and now it's 85 pounds and i know that also has to do with like fueling more um but yeah i i think my goal would be to get leaner still um because i have noticed like eating more i have put on a little more fat but i've also been building a lot of muscle um yeah so i wanted maybe your guys's advice on things i can do better going forward and how i can get to my goal from where i'm at right now where does the where does the concierge trainer have you calorie wise right now yeah so they have me at 2300 okay that's good honestly i've been eating a little more some days some days i'm hungrier so i've been sometimes going up to like 2500 or 2600 um but not every day i would say like it's usually 2300 but yeah i've definitely been getting hungrier do you know why you're getting hungrier probably because i'm building muscle you're hella stronger yeah like way stronger body wants it like you've added big big percentages uh to all your lifts so yeah why do you think you've gained body fat do you get your body fat tested or do you just feel bigger i just feel like my waist looks kind of fuller it's mainly around like my abdominal area it looks like it's just like a little softer a little fuller i feel like though my arms i see so much more definition in my arms like i've never even had this much definition in my whole entire lifting um it's hard it's hard amanda to okay so you gotta be very careful with the subjective because here's what happens when you bump your calories you're gonna hold more water in your muscles more glycogen in your muscles and if you build muscle you're gonna feel kind of bigger the fact that you see more definition in your arms uh that tells me you maybe didn't gain any body fat i'm not saying you didn't but i'm wondering if you didn't gain any body fat you're just kind of building some muscle yeah so i'd be interested to see if your body fat percentage has changed at all and 2300 calories is not a huge jump from 1700 now i know you go up a little bit above that because you're kind of hungry uh and i would talk to your coach about that because what they'll probably do is bump you again yeah i think the 23 to 2500 range is a it's where that's why i was curious where our concierge trainer put you i was going to say 2500 so 23 to 2500 it sounds like that's a perfect place for you so long as you're making good good choices right we're eating whole foods you're hitting your protein intake you're doing all those things and you're landing around 23 2500 you'll probably just slowly build muscle and slowly lean out and what's nice is if you keep going this direction you'll keep building muscle you'll keep being able to increase calories and then when you finally get to a place where you've you've built a lot of you keep seeing strength go up and you're like all right now i want to go in a cut we'll be able to take you from like 27 2800 calories all the way back down to like say 21 22 and you'll just and get leaner and you'll just get leaner every week yeah and so and and still be eating a good amount of calories you're 100 you are moving you're 100 in the right path yeah yeah like you're totally on the right and you had more muscle definition just i mean if you just started listening to me and you're listening to the podcast right now like a month ago because a month and a half okay because we i mean we talk a lot about this and i've been talking a lot about it lately because sal and i are in this little body fat competition ourselves right now and so and so first place you know one of the things is the psychological game is probably one of the toughest parts for everything for people is because like he said you know you you increase your calories by three 500 calories on a bulk and lifting weights, I've feel way fuller the minute I go to a cut and I go the other direction three days later I feel flat and but I look leaner my waist is smaller my waist my so in the in the stomach area I'm holding less water I look smaller but then I also look like less muscle and so people tend to go back and forth because like oh man I miss I want that muscle look but then I look all flat in the muscles but then my my weight and so they they go high up in calories and they go down in calories and then they end up just kind of staying the same because they can't commit to one thing it's like stay committed to building muscle you're in a perfect place calorie wise you're doing a great job with strength gains stay the course stay that way and then when you really want to cut we'll go the other way and then that that becomes you focus on that but what you're doing right now you are exactly you're going exactly the where you need to go yeah this is all everything you just said is like positive perfect and and trust your concierge coach that's what they're there for they're there for and I'm assuming this is what they're leading you to do is the 23 and then they're eventually probably going to pump you to 2500 calories and then eventually bring you back down the other direction so and by your strength gains are crazy by the way that you're doing great that's incredible you keep getting stronger you're you're totally moving in the right direction so you're actually getting really strong you're not just getting stronger you're getting really strong like your leg press went up almost I think double uh I think it was it was what you said that's wild yeah and yeah it's it's amazing you guys have talked a lot on this podcast about women being afraid to eat more and lift heavier because I was always told do less weight I never got my strength up a lot of times because I wasn't lifting heavy and this is the first time I've literally like this is the fastest progress I've ever had yeah I've always been also trying to lift while being in a calorie deficit and it's such a game you're eating enough and I guess like I hope all the women listening um can see like it's awesome to lift heavy and eat enough and it's awesome building muscle because I always wanted to get this strong in my legs I just was taking the wrong way and I was like I'm not going to do it I'm not going to do it I'm not going to do it in the wrong route yeah you just wait yeah this is the beginning Amanda you don't even know it's the beginning you just started yeah it's gonna just it's gonna just be patient it's like when in the game of building muscle and losing body fat it is a slow it's slow I mean it's not like we slap on five pounds of muscle overnight and we lose five pounds of fat overnight it takes a while to do both those things and what you're doing is perfect stay the course your concierge coach is going to continue to lead you in the right direction you stay focused on getting strong if you're hungry feed but make good choices you know feed eat good meals if you're hungry because that's probably your body telling you you need more you need more calories and keep going in that direction and then we'll eventually take you back the other way and you're going to just see yourself lean out and then you'll see all this awesome muscle that you build and you'll be eating a lot yeah you'll be eating a lot more than you ever were that's right um how long do you guys think until I should start a cut yeah I would say typically it's based on the person but let's see you're 21 you know where you started you've been doing this you know you're probably going to start a cut when you get to a good 27 2800 calories I like maybe even three I like and what we teach our coaches is to continue to push you that direction until you kind of look back at me and you go Adam this is so much food for me this is so much food I got to eat every day to where it's almost becomes a chore to eat as much as you're eating you're and you can't believe it and then I go cool let's cut one of those meals out or let's take those portions in half like so I like to get you to a place where you cannot imagine you could have never imagined eating that much and feeling so good and it's like okay now that I know that you're I've pushed you that far now let's come back the other way and we'll land somewhere comfortable for you to eat where you feel satisfied and it's plenty of meals and you're leaning out and so and that looks different for everybody that could be 26 or 2700 calories that could be 3500 calories for another woman I've seen it all and so that's where the individualization comes and that's where the coaching with the concierge when you meet with women you talk to them you let them know how you're feeling how all this like that and then based off of that they're they'll guide you on where where the calories should be okay and then for my workout split I'm doing one of the maps programs I'm not sure which one it is but I'm doing two upper body two lower body and I'm only training abs um two exercises just one of those days should I be training abs more than that or no no no listen to your coach so so we can give you advice on this all uh but you're with coaches and you're having longer conversations and we have we we hire our coaches ourselves yeah so what they give you is what I'm going to back up but yeah you're that's you're great you're doing good yeah your strength gains are telling me you're doing really well okay great thank you and I had a question um so my career goal is to eventually be a nutritional coach um or personal trainer who does nutritional coaching alongside that um what advice would you guys have of what route I should take last year I was studying nutritional Sciences at University I withdrew the year um to decide whether I should just do online certifications and start getting experience um and I'm deciding if I should do more college or just do the online certifications and just get right into it what would you get experience is way more valuable yeah applications applications way more valuable here's what's cool though what you're doing right now uh crush what you're doing with your coach and learn and learn from them yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah learn from them ask a lot of questions because they're very educated and very knowledgeable and they've learned from us continue to listen to the podcast because that's all we do is is educate around nutrition and exercise and then uh literally follow you all the way to your goal with your coach here and then reach back out to us we have courses for trainers and certifications and and teach all that stuff so we have a school group where we mentor and build trainers so oh really oh yeah yeah yeah so we do all that how would I apply to that what's so what's the website Doug uh the school group would be the Elite Trainer Academy um in school.com can you send her a link yeah we'll send you a link school is skool yeah Doug we'll send you a link it's a free community in there where there's thousands of trainers that are actually 12 bucks a month I thought the there's a there's a trial period oh yeah yeah yeah so he'll send you over the link to get in there uh there's thousands of trainers in there that we're mentoring and growing and developing and then we have a certification course all those things but the best thing you can do right now is focus with your coach that you have already the concierge learn from them take yourself to the ask them why they're doing things yeah you'll learn so much taking yourself through this um and it'll build the confidence in what you're doing and and then reach out to us and we hire within so everybody who works for us was listening to mind pump for years uh before that so we'd like to hire within versus going and finding trainers outside okay that's great and do you I should kind of get to my goal before starting to do a certification possibly I mean I think that you could do both that's really I don't know what's all on your plate work school all the things and so if you have the time to balance both I think that you're already invested in the concierge coaching you're already I think there's a lot to learn just diving deeper into what you're doing why they're doing it why they told you to do those things listening to the podcast that's all that's basically either paid for or free already and then you can look into potentially investing in that but I'll have Doug send a link and then we have an educator on that side and and I can have her reach out to you and explain how all that stuff works on our side too and she can if you want to get started right away you can okay thank you so much I really appreciate your guys's advice all right thanks for calling in God bless you guys have a good day bye bye bye I mean she's kicking butt yeah she's doing great crushing there's really not much to say yeah you know I was literally what I when I was she was kind of explaining everything I was like I'd probably have her right around 25 I'm curious where our concierge coach put her 23 2500 calories yeah it's so funny because at 23 is where they have her and she's hungry she's hungry yeah so it's like it's perfect 23 25. by the way just want to point back to how she said she dropped her calories at 1700 started running like a lot and got fatter and lost muscle yeah that's what happens our next caller is Megan from Sweden hi Megan hi Megan hi nice to meet you thanks so much for taking my call I've been listening to you guys for a couple of years and I really appreciate your podcast thank you thank you how can we help you all right I'll just go ahead and read my question that I sent in so I have a question about recurring injuries and how to structure my training to avoid them in short I've had issues with my lower back specifically around my SI joint I've always been active and have been weight training continuously and progressively for over five years and deadlifts often cause flare-ups of pain and minor injuries so my questions is about how I should approach this should I stop dead lifting and focus on other exercises or scale back and keep dead lifting um I have some more background if you need it um my lower back and my hip area have caused issues for me in different ways for most of my adult life I've had bursitis general lower back pain sciatica and pregnancy induced pelvic girdle pain in two of my three pregnancies and in my third pregnancy I was in a wheelchair because of it for about three months um my youngest is now eight years old so it was a while ago and since then I'll have irritation in my lower back usually on the left side but not generally something that impedes my training um but it kind of comes and goes um a few years ago my training was mostly focused on power lifting and the deadlift was my strongest lift um in two thousand and uh 23 I PR'd about double my body weight and after that I think I had problems with a bulging disc or something that I never I was never diagnosed with anything um and it bothered me for a really long time after that and I would avoid deadlifts um in the past couple of years I've been doing RDLs which seem work better. But I've been more conservative and haven't gone as heavy. And I've started incorporating regular deadlifts again, but at a much lighter weight. And about three weeks ago, when I sent in my question, something popped just in my lower back while I was deadlifting. And I was in some pretty severe pain for several days. And so I took a short break from training, walked, and I can't feel it at all anymore. So my question is really about how should I approach this going forward, particularly regarding the deadlift. I'm torn between skipping them and sticking to RDLs, which have worked better. But at the same time, I don't want to skip exercises and create imbalances and weaknesses. And I would love some insight about this. Just some general facts about me. I'm 41 years old. I'm 166 centimeters, 55 kilos. I lift full body three days a week, and I run once, sometimes twice. I eat around 2,100 calories a day, and strive for 120 grams of protein. But if I'm being honest, I usually get around 100. I have a full-time desk job, and I average around 8,000, 9,000 steps a day when I count in my runs. Yeah, that's about it. And I would enjoy any recommendations that you might have for me. Yeah, thanks, Megan, for calling in. Okay, so with someone like you and your background in training, so without doing an assessment, I'm going to make some educated guesses. But I think I'm probably on point. I'm going to make some educated guesses. I'm going to because you trained as like a power lifter. You probably don't include a lot of movements that strengthen your lateral stability or rotational stability, and you probably don't do a lot of unilateral work. And so what happens when you get really strong, which you got pretty strong at a particular movement, the muscles that stabilize that movement, there starts to become an imbalance, okay? There starts to become an imbalance to the point where, you know, they support you, but if you're trying to do something that's not going to work, you're going to have to but if your technique is off even by a hair, then you can run into some problems. And so you see this when people do lots of squats, lots of deadlifts, lots of presses, lots of rows with no lateral stability, no rotational mobility, you know, movements or rotational strengthening and no like unilateral type work. And so it starts to become quite common. So there's a couple exercises that I think would probably be beneficial for you to focus on. I think windmills would be a good idea. would be a great exercise for you. Suitcase carries. Suitcase carries would be really good. Even a good old fashioned dumbbell side bend would be good. Lateral sled dragging, you know, some rotational movements, and then a whole cycle of unilateral work. Yeah, definitely symmetry. Yeah, map symmetry would be great for all of that. And then I think you get back into your deadlifting and always incorporate some kind of lateral stability movement in your routine. And then every couple months, every two, three, four months, do a unilateral block of 30 days or something like that. And you should be okay. But what you're explaining, especially on the SI joint, is so common with people who just focus on this bilateral deadlift and squat. Even like bursitis in the hips. And bursitis in the hips. I mean, that's me. Like, it's happened to me. Same thing. Yeah. And I think you guys are right. I've started doing a bit more unilateral lately, but not rotational. Definitely something that I could improve. And my, my original background is, is in ballet. So I've done a lot of that kind of motions. And my doctor, when I was pregnant, thought that perhaps this pelvic girdle pain had something to do with hypermobility and me having done so much ballet and then maybe not having the stability. Yeah. So there's a, so when you look at sports, you see common injury patterns in high level sports, right? So ballet, there's gonna be like a, like a sequence of injuries that are quite common. Same thing with basketball or tennis or swimming. And when you look at strength, like power lifting, what you're describing is super common. And it's not because the deadlift is bad. The deadlift is great. But if you get really strong of the deadlift and you train it all the time and you don't focus on lateral stability there. Yeah. Like that, like the ability of the spine to bend laterally to stabilize and strengthen a rotation. SI pain is like one of the more common things. Yeah. SI pain, bursitis, all that is. Yeah. Yeah. Have you, have you, have you got any sort of a mobility routine at all? Or if you, did you ever get a chance to watch the webinars that Justin and I did on, on mobility? We're really good. No, I've seen just little, little bits, but not the entire thing. No, I should check that out. I know it's not the same. I used to do a lot of yoga, which I actually found made it worse. But I know that that's not the same as more mobility. Totally, totally different. Mobility is different. So you're talking about flexibility. Yeah. This is all connecting. This is more getting strong in that range. I'll have Doug send you the link. It's primeprowebinar.com, I believe. That's correct. Yeah. Primeprowebinar.com. That's the one you did. Yeah. It's the one I did. Mine's better than Justin's. So it's a, but it's, it's a really, it's, it's just, I, I chose from literally from my toes to my neck movements, my favorite movements with my clients that I did over the years. It's like a legit workout. Yeah. It's a good 50 minutes. Like, throw it on the TV in your living room and follow it. Like literally follow the instruction with me and just see how you feel from that. And what, what normally I would point out, I like to do those all with my clients. I would always be able to find one or two in every client that was really glaring. Like, like let's say you get down in the 90, 90 and I see you do it. I go, oh, wow. Her left side, she really lacks internal rotation. So you might, you'll, if you really notice a discrepancy in one side or another on the movements that I have you do in there, like that's your kind of like flag of like, okay, I need to spend a lot of time getting better at this to balance that out. Because if there's a major discrepancy from left to right, and you're really strong doing these bilateral movements, that's normally an area that really would make a difference. If you can show improvement. Yeah. If you take that one, you know, egregious movement that you're like, wow, I need to work on this. And then you implement that as your primer before your workouts and really just like repeat that as much as possible. You're trying to learn how to stabilize again and really like train, uh, your body to respond appropriate for that. And that's going to do a lot for your pain. Okay, great. Thank you so much. We'll send you Matt century. Okay. That's a unilateral work training program that I think will be good for you to follow. Thank you. Thanks so much for your time. You got it. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I had, um, I was having hip pain and I did six weeks of lateral sled drags gone. Yeah. It's magical. Hip pain was gone. I'm the same way. And I'm like, oh, I might need a hip or I mean, obviously just a lack of, yeah, obviously we are there doing this virtually and yeah, so we can't do an assessment. So doing a, a, a legit assessment would, would really tell us a lot more, but I'm with Sal. This is just a logical thought based off of what she's breaking down and saying she, especially to, I, you know, it's common also is somebody who did address that stuff in the past really well, it's atrophied because you don't do any of it anymore. And then you get really strong like the bi-laterally. And so there's this, there is this huge discrepancy in a person like that. I think it's even more exacerbated when you have someone who probably did a lot of stuff like that in the past and then has completely neglected it. Our next caller is Shannon from Washington. Hey, welcome back. Welcome back. Did you take our advice, Shannon? I did. It was a fun experiment. Okay. So tell us what happened. It was kind of scary, but it was, it was fun. Uh, I'll feel free to interrupt me at any time. Also, uh, I'll just start just to, uh, uh, a lot of the time. So, uh, let the callers know before talking with you guys, um, uh, at almost 62, I'd maintained my weight within five pounds for the last 10 years, mostly without tracking. If I ever did track, I'd never go above 1600, usually more like 13 to 14, if I was trying to dial it in. Um, but like I said, I had not been tracking, but I did right before our last call and discovered that I was averaging 1500 to 1900 calories. Uh, and let's see. I was holding a lean physique at about 18% body fat. I think per my last DEXA scan a year ago, uh, you guys challenged me to reverse diet for 60 days and to put on more body fat and hopefully more muscle so I could feed the booty for, uh, glute growth. And I've just been struggling with that. Um, and so for the update, it's just been really interesting, really fun to, to try this and really, uh, love to see how my body adapted as I added more calories. Um, and it really took the fear away for me too. Also with that, it's, uh, I started out with a weekly average of about 1850 ended with a weekly average of about 2300. Um, I stayed in the mid 22 hundreds for about four weeks. Uh, and then I had several high days in the last week or so, 2400 to 2800. I kind of started to lose a little bit of control. I was like, Oh, I'm going to go back to my regular diet. I'm going to go back to my regular diet. So I kind of lost a little bit of control there, but I love it. Anyway, the protein was always high, usually, uh, one, one 70 to over 200. I know that's more than I need, but I struggled to do lower than that. I always crack up when people struggle to get higher. It's like, I struggled to get it lower. Um, let's see carbs and fats were all over the place. Never too low, never, uh, on either. Um, I mainly focused just on the calories and the protein is that fine with tracking like as long as you're as long as you're getting higher fat meat was your fat was your fat above 65 70 at least how many grams of fat okay yeah it was the low end was 80 but oh yeah oh you're fine oh you're good oh you're good you're good yeah i love my fat yeah good i used to be more lower carbs so i'm used to eating a lot of good um i lifted an upper lower split four days a week mostly focused on shoulders and glutes my lifts are split up during my work breaks at the gym i have two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break uh four days a week so that's when i do my workouts i'm not doing any cardio not even walking i'm trying to get myself to do more walking but uh there was a week or so recently where i was doing less due to hip pain and i think my neck was out i think it was all related um but i got adjusted and feel better so anyway the results i gained two to three pounds uh not sure about the accuracy of the renfo scale you know where you um for the body fat but it said my body fat was at 0.8 and it said muscle mass up 1.5 that's i don't know if that's accurate or not but i noticed slight strength increases or i just pushed harder you know it's hard to tell my hip thrust went from 250 to 280 my bulgarians went from um a 35 pound dumbbell to i mean a 30 pound dumbbell to 45 um my shoulders i just added some reps uh went from six to eight reps to 10 reps um let's see oh and yesterday i was able to do 20 pounds for side laterals that was my first with that we don't have 17s at the gym so i had to anyway um let's see although when looking at my pics i don't know if you guys saw those i feel like i look exactly the same maybe a little less defined just from that little bit of body fat but i don't know i'm still struggling like i don't know what i'm doing chan and if you were here i'd shake the shit out of you if you were here i would shake the shit out of you you are you're you're you're here's the challenge keep going yeah more you're going in the right direction we're going the right direction i and if we if we put 0.8 pounds of fat on and we put 1.5 pounds of muscle on we're heading the right direction i care less about that the fact that you added 20 pounds to your hip thrust and obviously moving in the right direction your calories are still too low yeah yeah we're low you just need more i need more keep going that way i should be going for oh now i mean well now if you've been averaging 22 23 i'd bring you up to probably 26 yeah and i'd stay there for a while and keep getting stronger yeah yeah yeah um as far as you did build muscle you little clown i can see in your picture yeah yeah i shake the shit out of you you look looking at your pictures yeah yeah you did build muscle you need outside eyes for sure my glutes have looked the same forever and i'm wondering well it's because you got no fat and that's where most of our fat sits yeah you gotta get fatter you gotta get a fat ass yeah come on gain some muscle let's go body fat booty yeah go go 2600 calories you've got a great metabolism it's really responsive yeah no you're you're great that two to three pounds on the scale was probably a little bit of muscle and water that's probably what you gain yeah well yeah and that was right after i had a really bad eating like yeah so that i knew that i was inflamed for the oh gosh yeah no you probably haven't even gained a pound yeah what i'm most interested in is the strength gains and then how you feel and i'm going to guess that your energy probably went up too kind of i mean i feel really i've always felt pretty good so i i mean i maybe uh i think so it's hard to say um did you see the part should i read the part about i i really like and look in my pictures i was i kind of asked you guys what would you recommend and i look at it's clear as day that i need to work the back of my legs more and i had been uh and my glutes and i had been neglecting uh rdls because i get elbow pain when i'm usually doing with dumbbells and i get elbow pain when i lift anything higher than 35 however i did try the other day using those hook things yeah good i was able to do 50s but then i get freaked out like i really worry about my lower back and enough i've had i mean i have scoliosis pretty bad and you can probably see my weird i would i would you know rdls are fine single leg deadlifts are good yeah leg curls are really good hip thrusts are really good one of my face since you have the hook grips one of my favorite things to do with katrina is i have her stand by like a squat rack or a pole that she can hold and balance and and then the other hand is holding on to the heavy weight and she does single leg deadlifts like that yeah so single leg deadlifts are really good yeah and then i get freaked out like i really worry about single so you get how so just for balance so it just helps stabilize you in balance i mean if you do it without holding but i when i want her to push weight i i let her i don't i'm less focused on stability i'm more focused on her pushing weight yeah heavy in one leg i like i want her to hold the hold the bar to stay help her stabilize and hold a 70 pound plus dumbbell in the other arm and do single leg deadlifts so good yeah i like holding on i hold on when i do my rdls too i always have one hand on the wall in front of me i like awesome yeah um so with the single leg rdls are they am i keeping my leg straight like one leg kind of going straight back or is it more rdl like kick the leg back yeah kick the leg back slide the hips back you want to feel that all that stretch in the hamstring and the glute if you do that's when you know you're hitting it just right you slide your it's hip a hip hinge so you're sliding back you feel that good stretch in the hamstring the glute gets activated squeeze the glute come forward and load that sucker yeah see what you can do and then you're good to go see what you can load it with and and continue to push that keep your calories 25 26 and i think some people putting one knee on a bench and doing it uh no i like the way adam's no no do the way adam's saying it yeah okay yeah yeah keep your hips square while you do it and then also i don't uh i've had this really like when i when i'm doing more pull-ups i notice in at night when i'm i just get excruciating pain and the i think it's called the intercostal muscles or whatever between your ribs it's like i can hardly take a breath i will like yelp it hurts so bad and that's also my saggy side of my um scoliosis and i don't know if pull-ups are maybe pulling i don't i don't know if that's anything to do with that yeah you might be overstretching the intercostals a little bit um maybe i love working on pull-ups well maybe focus a little bit on uh rows for a little while and then do pull downs with a lighter weight and go slower intercostal suck to pull and over pullovers yeah pullovers might be okay but watch out for that too with the intercostals yeah so you just kind of like you know be a little careful because i've worked with clients like that and i know exactly what you're talking about yeah it's been frustrating last year for my 61st birthday i had a goal of 10 pull-ups and chin-ups and i hit 12 on my birthday and then this year my 60 my 62nd was just last week and i can only do like five now because i'm five or six because it's just i kept backing off because of that and the elbow pain yeah shannon if we if we really want if we want the booty gains like i'm gonna push calories hip thrust single leg deadlift on you all day we're going heavy we're gonna get stronger and stronger in that direction and i'm gonna keep pushing you the calories and i want you to be i don't give a shit if we put seven pounds ten pounds on the scale i don't care if you feel fluffy for a little bit we can always get shredded you have a very responsible metabolism i can tell already and so i can easily be pushing you 2800 3000 calories for a while put on a little bit of body fat and muscle build that ass and then bring you the other way down and you'll just lean right out i already know you will and so but it would be where you would where i'd be in your ear is the psychological side of keep going i don't care you're fine you're fine trust me trust me and that that's all i'd be saying to you and then you're you're you put on a little bit of that way put on a little bit of the body fat it's okay you can you already know you have the discipline to get back to shredded you have it that's the easy part for you thank you um one more thing about i have not been incorporating squats and is that like a big missing link or is our already our bulgarians enough you're fine so if you did squats and i'm assuming you stopped doing squatting because it bothered you maybe due to the scoliosis well it's it's loading on the back i don't know it's i trained at home with dumbbells for so long that i just kind of i don't know i stopped doing them and then i was so focused on the glued exercises during my breaks at the work that sometimes i just couldn't fit it in and also the squat rack that it's a slanted smith machine smith machine at the gym they're getting the free bar next month they're finally getting a couple of those but and i have one at home that never gets used i hate to say that i bought it a long time ago long story i'm gonna i'm gonna say if you're gonna squat treat it like a skill and practice it don't use it to train until you get really good but also load it very much at all but also know this bulgarians rdls hip thrust and hip thrust you do those three and we get strong and loaded like i care more about that than like you practicing the squat right now since our main goal is go build the butt and like if i had like let's that's that's what we're gonna do as fast as we can as best as we can it's pushing calories it gets strong as shit in those three lifts yeah and and and a goal is next month you're telling me a pr and at least two of those three lifts that's i'm pushing on you and that's all we're going to focus on and that is what will that will give the the greatest return that's right on the butt than anything else doesn't mean that i don't think squatting is good i think practicing squats would be great but if if you tell me my main focus is i want to build my butt 100 i'm gonna that's how i'm going to push you those three lifts push the calories your goal is in the first 30 days we pr two of those three lifts you said rdls bulgarians and what hip thrust oh yeah of course your main lift is your hip thrust yeah that's your that's yeah i'm always watching that's how i time my breaks when that thing's open i'm like running for it um what was i gonna say one more thing uh 45 degree hypers versus rdls or do those also or can they replace or does it need to be different those three lifts are the main focus yeah don't worry about if you do other accessory stuff great but i again i would more stuff is not going to make you stronger at those three lifts get strong at those three lifts our whole entire week is based if you're gonna do more of anything do more of those yes that's what that's the goal that is a goal another thing and you're gonna shoot me for this i already shook the shit out of you what else you want i know promises promises no um so the timing of this i didn't like because i like to do a dexa scan every year on my birthday which just passed but i did schedule one for two weeks from now and i was wanting to just kind of tighten up a little bit for that and then go back to maybe who cares no who cares no i like to have low body fat for it no you're so shredded you can gain five percent body fat you know what reason why is this is we need to practice not caring about that yeah we need to practice not caring about that you don't care you turn that in for a money prize like what so who cares yeah i don't know it's just shannon you won you're you're 62 years old you already figured that part out it's like you guys going on your vacation you want to get shredded for it yeah no listen you already won that game i don't you already yeah the most amazing we're on the we're on the build the ass game aren't we is it let's make sure we're clear on our goals here we're on the build the ass game how much more do you want to win can you calm down yeah okay if that's if we're on the build the booty game then that's the thing if the focus was get shredded then i'd say okay but the focus isn't that the focus is let's go build the butt let's go so that's what you gotta do yeah skip the body fat test all right good okay let's thank you good job yes do it so much guys yeah all right bye she's kicking butt hey you know what's crazy can i just say something real quick so you have a woman who's strength trained for years consistent obviously has a decent amount of muscle mass you can see it in her picture in her you know in the video yeah and although she's restricted calories here and there she hasn't restricted so much that she's prevented herself from being fit she just kept herself a little too lean here's what i want to say to you as 62 years old to have that responsive of a metabolism crazy it's because of her years of strength training because you when i when you work with a 62 year old woman who doesn't have a background of exercise and you try the reverse diet and you i mean it works but it takes a long time their bodies just don't respond like a 23 year old or a 33 year old shannon's body's responding like a 23 year old yeah and it's because of her history of consistency with she could she could push 3 000 calories and she could do it she could do it she could do it she could do it she could do it she could do it oh yeah oh easy and and look amazing and be totally fine fine to be 3 000 calories as she's tiny as a tiny female that's badass and that is a full testament testament to strength training oh yeah and point out too she's got scoliosis that she's trained through that yeah i mean that's most people chalk that up as i can't because of that and look what she's been able to build incredible great job look if you like the show come find us on instagram it's mind pump media thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com the rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sal adam and justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over videos the rgb super bundle is like having sal adam and justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price the rgb super bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you 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