Cara Delevingne: Sobriety, Sexuality & Self-Love

what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her daddy carla delavine welcome to call her daddy hi i couldn't be more excited to have you here seriously excited i'm nervous i'm nervous don't be nervous i was just thinking i've been nervous all day though don't worry i have my father's show tonight so i'm just there's a lot going on today yeah well i've got you it's gonna be fine and i also can't believe we've never met i know it's i feel like i've just i feel like i've just been a fan of yours for so long and watch the show and watch your documentary i just think you're incredible and i love how comfortable you make people feel and how like the different interview styles you get from people yeah you just have a really incredible way i think with people making them feel comfortable which is something i also like to do well you are so sweet thank you for saying that not that i need to make you feel comfortable no no no i feel this is your house i feel the same way about you i thinking about coming here i was like there's so many different things we have to talk about obviously you came into this industry as literally one of the world's most famous models then you just so casually also pivoted and you're in some incredible movies and now you have an album coming out this summer congratulations thank you how are you feeling ah it's a lot i um yeah i'm not sleeping a lot right now i feel so crazy but in like a very like this is only going to happen once in my life that i'm going to feel like this so i'm also quite enjoying the mania i'm getting quite a lot done but also i'm ready to to have a little nap after the after tonight's show but no i i'm really it doesn't feel real this is like all my dreams come true with this album well i'm like you're gonna do your first show tonight you also just got back from the can film festival where your movie got a seven minute standing ovation yeah no big deal i know i've never been in the room when that happens and it was it's definitely one of those things where like oh it's really it feels like a long time what did that moment feel like to you though oh i was just so happy for jordan and like little reggie who is the kid in the movie and uh yeah jordan is an incredible person and i think people are really going to get to see just how enigmatic he is and how multi-faceted and talented he is to create a movie like that where it really shows queer culture in such a realistic way for people who don't experience that or have never experienced that those kind of clubs and drugs and all of it but then also you know it's a real tear-jerker i know i was gonna just say like congratulations my husband who's in that industry was like oh well she's been the talk of can so you're getting her at a great time and i was like oh and she's got an album matt so he was like oh my god this is perfect timing so congratulations on that entire trip seriously thank you i'm sure you noticed but the call her daddy studio outside in the offices is under construction oh i'm obsessed and we are building like a little tunnel for people to walk through when they come to the studio and i know that in your old house i'm just going to say is it you uh-huh you converted a hallway into a vagina tunnel glorified hallway it wasn't a hallway it was for sure it was the the tunnel small petite cute gold gorgeous gorgeous fluffy soft warm vibrates all of it did it have a name or was it just vagina tunnel it was my vagina tunnel and the really the best part of it is that uh people would ask about it and i'd be like yes i've had so many people come through my vagina tunnel it's so great can't wait for you to see it it just was such a good gag even that the fact it existed was weirder but um yeah i think it was just me during covid i think i'd done some mushrooms and i was like i need to make a vagina tunnel that you crawl through and you can sit in and you can meditate and it can feel warm and there's like visuals and lights and yeah it vibrates and is warm am i forgetting anything no and there's like there was like a little hammock in there too and then you crawl out of a washing machine and you feel cleansed it's like baptism it's genius and it's amazing and i'm sad i never got to experience it i'm so sad because it would have been really up my alley and no house will ever be like that house you can't really replicate it and also i'm in a different time in my life where i don't think that's also something i want but i do want a vagina tunnel again i'll always have one so i might as well invite people in you know okay so no matter what you're gonna get when you get a new house you'll find an area for a vagina yeah and even if it's more like a vagina cave maybe it doesn't go anywhere maybe it's more just like a cozy cotch space yeah i don't know a reading corner it's a different kind of a tunnel i love the sounds matured i love it so much i literally i was like i know it hasn't been a while since you've had it but i was like i just oh it's one of my favorite things that i had yeah and i had to bring it up no you had to um i'm so excited to get to know you today truly i feel like i want to learn so much more about all of your life experiences especially that inspired how long you got girl girl no i wore my cozy pants today i wish i'm relaxed i'm ready to get into it because perfect this album is very personal yeah and there's a lot that you talk about that i think does require us to kind of go back to the childhood a little bit sure so you down to go back with me cara yeah i'm still there okay let's go oh perfect okay let's go still regressing um so you grew up in london yes what is the most like british thing about you i mean i've made an england tattooed on the bottom of my foot i don't think that's the most british thing about my personality but it is i'm a i'm a pretty self-deprecating um i'm really self-deprecating though like i'm really on borderline like i hate myself not anymore i've done a lot of work on it but i think that's that's part of something about being british yeah the dry humor which i think a lot of the time in the beginning of my career people really didn't understand that i was being sarcastic quite a lot or maybe i was also just in a bad mood and trying to play it off as sarcasm either way isn't that weird in the beginning of your career you hope you're like wait no that's not what i'm trying to do i'm trying to play it and now it's kind of like great to be misunderstood yeah i feel like i don't care i just i think i was so desperate for love and for people to like me so much so that i just i don't really know what i was doing at some so many points you i know that your parents kind of ran in circles of like that were considered high society what was that like for you growing up it's so interesting because i don't think it's so i mean people can see things like stuff on tv right of like obviously the crown is not how i grew up but like in that certain way of like there is nothing quite like british high society it's to me something i really didn't enjoy i was very confused by the whole thing of people growing up having kind of a lot of money and not really doing anything and kind of feeling very entitled and having a lot and expecting a lot for really nothing whereas i grew up and i just really wanted i mean when i was a kid i really wanted to change the world i felt like i wanted to be a superhero i think that came from like a hero complex of like trying to fix people and make people better but for me i don't know i really wanted to earn people's respect and i think there's that thing of society where if you're born into it you don't really have to do much and people can be pretty horrible and pretty rude and spoil not everyone i mean it doesn't always work like that but i think the circles that my parents ran in i don't know i was like i don't like these people's kids like they're not nice to other kids or they're not nice to people who work here or for them and it's just like it felt very i don't know i preferred going to raves and breaking into festivals and doing drugs in a park like that was my vibe i really wanted to like do the opposite i think is there anything though that you think is a bit different from what you've been doing for a long time i know that you felt like there were i know you're saying like oh you kind of didn't have to do anything you kind of just like had money and that was the expectation of like just kind of go and then you become the next generation that goes into the wealth but like were there expectations in terms of the way you were supposed to act in the way you were supposed to present when you i think so i if anyone knows me they know that i'm not i'm not a super put together person like i think my i think especially for my parents and for my family like manners are super important and i believe that it's very important to be kind to people um but when it comes to like in terms of like eating in a pretty way or whatever like i'm not like to be a model for instance and to like walk well oh my god it took me so long to like pretend to be graceful because i'm just not i'm a feral human like i'm way more like of a neanderthal than i am a human being that's not the right word like proper and grace for me we're just not something no and also i i also think because my parents ran in these circles i assumed when i was younger you know i went to i was very lucky i went to incredible schools you know i would go on amazing holidays um but for me there was something that was missing underneath it all which was i think a lot of about high society is that people try and really pretend to be perfect and act like in a certain way and everything has to be wrapped in a very Very neat. box and when I knew there was so much stuff going on underneath it it really confused me and I was like I don't understand but there was a certain element where I was like oh you know all my friends that and their kids they get trust funds like when when does that happen my dad was like are you kidding you don't have a trust fund and I was like oh so you run in these circles but it's not to the same degree if that makes sense it's a perception of you know go to the parties and do all the things and look nice but it's not the same level of like it's not the same reality no but also I think for my you know I love my parents and there's been a lot of like there was a lot of resentment I had towards my upbringing and growing up but I also think because I pushed myself too hard and it took me a long time to get over it but I think their perception of how it was especially for men and women you know my dad had three girls and his his ideal was for us to you know marry someone who would look after us and I was like that's never I never want to be looked after by anyone it's so interesting obviously generationally when they have like an idea for you and you're like trying to break away from it but it also feels like then you are abandoning what your parents want which means feeling like you're letting them down and I also don't think he thought it was possible for a woman to I don't know in the same sense that I'm sure he did but I also just knew I was different too like I knew I knew I was a little queer kid running around like I didn't feel like I belonged in my body in my family in any of it so I was like yeah anything you guys tell me I'm not gonna listen to which also is part of how I am in just terms of like rules I can't really handle them I also think something you said was so interesting and relatable for probably a lot of people growing up is like the feeling of we why are we all not talking about this why are we all pretending everything's fine and I remember you said from the outside my family's life looked extremely privileged but behind closed doors there was a lot more to the story like yes we're talking about the parties but can you kind of paint the picture of what your life did look like in the home with your parents and your siblings unfortunately my my memory of a lot of it my memory is my memory it's not fact I can remember what I can remember and I'm unfortunately the way that I'm wired my brain will tend to hold on to darker things and trauma than it does the nice parts which I know they were there uh because there's videos of it and there are memories I have of it that I worked really hard to to remember but I do yeah I think I I don't know I don't feel like I had a voice as a kid in terms of I mean who does I guess at that age but I don't feel like I was going through a lot and I don't know what I was going through but there was a lot going on with my mom who especially was very sick when I was growing up and I didn't know how I felt about it but I also wasn't asked or wasn't allowed to feel and also she was so sick so I couldn't make it about me I just had to look after her and that I was actually looking after her and that I was actually looking after her and that I was actually really good at it like I loved doing it but she it overtook everything to the point where like I just I still am really trying to learn how to look after myself at 30 three sorry excuse me can I swear of course I forget every time people always ask me about vagina tunnel yeah you're right please swear um that's also a very I think interesting theme in a lot of people's life is like feeling like if there's someone in your family that's really going through it then you kind of have to then your problems aren't as big as theirs and I know you have talked about kind of like the struggles that your mom went through mental health-wise and with substance use is there a moment as a kid that you like acutely remember being like oh something is off with her or was it just always a constant it did it felt normal it felt normal until you know being at a certain age where you're told your mom's gonna die and being in hospital being like huh like I don't understand what that means and also the very very physical visceral memory of her being away a lot and you know either being in hospital or in rehab of some sort and that feeling of not knowing where she was no one told me so I just thought she was dead and I didn't understand so and that's when that kind of thing of like trying to control the uncontrollable would come in where like I just would stop eating at seven and like just be on a hunger strike because I didn't know where my mother was I was not gonna eat because that to me was the only thing I had control over and what would you like would you ask your father and he wouldn't no I didn't under I just I don't know again I don't remember and I think my dad we we all have very different memories of this my sisters are you know six and eight years older than me they were teenagers they were out the house my dad bless him I don't know and I think my dad we we all have very different memories of this my sisters are you know six and eight years older than me they were teenagers they were out the house my dad bless him I don't know and I think my dad bless him you know he my drive and my ambition and my he works really hard and to him security and money uh is the most important thing and to look after people but in the same sense he wasn't around a lot as much as I think I I was around I guess my mom well and I think something Cara that is so weird as adults that you have to we have to start to realize which I have a lot of conversations about but I think my dad bless him you know he my drive and my ambition and my he works really hard and to him security and money is the most important thing and to look after people but in the same sense he wasn't around a lot as much as I think I I was around I guess my mom well and I think something Cara that is so weird as adults that you have to we have to start to realize which I have a lot of conversations people about is like we love our parents and we also were like that was a weird fucked up thing that happened in my childhood and I think it's hard to grapple with like you can still say that things did not feel right in your childhood and both things can kind of exist and I think it's a odd feeling because it seems like you've kind of made amends with your family and you guys are like on great terms but also a child's perception is is everything. It doesn't matter if you were seeing it slightly different than maybe your father was seeing it. That was your reality. And so the fact that you were saying, I literally thought my mom was dead. I had no idea where she was. That's like you're in shock and you're going through grief and all those things at a really young age and you're just alone. And it seems like you didn't really have anyone to talk to. I just didn't have the tools to talk. And I also think I remember, you know, I remember when I started dealing with my own struggles and my dad was like, what, what do you, what do you have to struggle about? You've had everything you've ever wanted, you know, presents and holidays and a good school. And I was like, that's, that's not your fault for not knowing that. But that's also my, it's, it's not, it's, it's not based on anyone's but the conversation just was not there. And I didn't know how to have it. So I just held everything into the point where, you know, I had a mental breakdown at 15, but it was way too young and had to drop out of school. And, but it also happened at the same time starting to do drugs. But to me, that was like, it all happened at once. And then, yeah, it's still, I still don't think I found that proper way of talking about anything until, I don't know, this past four or five years. Well, I think, also, because like you just said, like, then you just kind of go on the run and you're like, I've got to figure myself out. I've got to get through this. And you don't, no one has time to fucking like think about their childhood until you finally can breathe a little bit and be like, what happened back then? And it's also like to your father's credit. And I have had people in my life like this, where clearly whatever happened in his life, he was able to kind of plug those wounds with being like, if I can be so successful, if I can get money and status, that will help me. And you're like, wait, things don't mean anything to me. And like, to his credit, like, he kept our family together. He could have left my mother, like to stay with someone who had struggled and had been through, you know, and not to hurt, not that she ever wanted to hurt people, but she hurt everyone a lot. And he stayed and he kept us together. And that to me is pretty incredible. I really, I loved it. I've loved getting older in the sense of that resentment and that anger that you hold on to is just so poisoning. It's just it's honestly the worst. Like you can do anything to yourself. But when you hold on to stuff like that, you just make you get so sick. It is you really do. And I remember in one of your past interviews, you said, I didn't feel like I had the right to feel. I didn't want to cause any more pain. I'm like, whoa, that's a really heavy burden to carry on. And I'm like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. as a child to basically force yourself not to feel if you look back at that time in your life what traits or habits do you think you kind of developed in response to being like don't feel don't feel don't cause anyone pain uh danger seeking behavior for sure i because i also think at some point around the time of the not eating i also just started like throwing myself off stuff and like i broke like i don't know how many bones in like a year because i just started i i was in pain inside but i didn't know how to express it so i just wanted to feel pain and i it didn't it didn't consciously happen in that way in my head but i remember breaking my elbow straight through for the first time and going to the hospital And finding out it was broken and being like, yay, like, I can finally have a cast and say like, ow, I'm hurting, you know, it was like the first time I could like, like, feel like I deserve to say, ow. Right, like have someone validate you like, oh, you must be in so much pain. I have a cast, look, I'm broken, pain now. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's so that's sad, right? As a kid. Yeah, it is. It is sad. I definitely. I definitely now I like I wish I had given myself. I've been more gentle with myself and I didn't have the tools to do that, but I wish I, you know, now. When I look back at like photos of myself as a kid, I was like, oh, I didn't deserve. Not that I didn't deserve to be treated like that. I didn't deserve to then do what I did to myself. Because. Things can happen. It's how you deal with them. It's how you hold on to them. No one deserves to, you know, be hurt or to be neglected in any way, shape or form. But. I didn't make it easier. I made a hell of a lot worse. I know, but I also think that is something that humans and it is frustrating. And I think especially as women, there's a lot of this of like when the pain is not something that someone can tangibly and like physically see, you are dismissed and you're discarded. And it's like, OK. You're being dramatic. And so really, it's there. All the repression of the quote I read of you being like, I literally tried not to feel. Eventually, your body was like, we have to expel this. We have to do something. It's like an exorcism. Right. Yeah. It has to come out. And also my my trait was. I just wanted to fix other people, but had no concept of receiving love. So in any like relationship or anything, I'd be like, oh, that person's not doing. Well, oh, I can look after them and hopefully, you know, I wasn't able to save my mom, but I could save this person and that will hopefully wrong that. Right. And but then at some point, someone would actually try and show me love. And I would be like, oh, no, that's not what we do here. I look after you. I'm still not even equipped to do that at this point. But like, no, that's and I would just run for the hills because it's all you knew. It's like my mother be there for her. Everybody wait. And like, yeah, and I love I loved doing it. I don't know why it because it gave me a purpose and it helped me not think about myself, which I didn't like doing at that point. So what happened at 15? I was experimenting a lot, I think, with like hallucinogens at that point, you know, which pretty young, 14, 13, 14. And yeah, you know, growing up in England and London at that time, it's a lot of drugs. And ketamine was very big at that point. And I think I love what drugs made me feel. I loved not having to think about my mom. I loved not having to feel the pressure of not being good at school because I couldn't focus or concentrate the pressure of not feeling like I was good at anything or good enough or love myself. All of that, it went away. And what drugs really gave me at that point, which is what I was desperately looking for, was connection wasn't real. I mean, it didn't. It is to some extent, but it's not. It's there. It's tangible, but it's not deep enough, right, for what you really need, maybe what you want. But I loved that part and I loved the friends I had and the music and the, you know, breaking into it was just like such an amazing period. But then, especially with things like hallucinogens and when your brain is not formed yet, I just remember having a really bad trip, a really bad trip where I just. I thought that, um, that my dad was God and my mom was the devil and I had to kill her to save the end of the world, like, like I lost my mind. And, uh, at the end of that trip, though, I thought that Bill Murray, Tim Curry and Jim Carrey were the same person and I'm still convinced that they might be. Okay. I don't know. Acid is a crazy thing. To be determined. But I really, I also was taking it like every day, like I was doing it a lot and my brain was just not stable enough to be able to control it. Yeah. Yeah. To be able to do that. And I just kept having bad trips and I just, I was just became suicidal just because at that point then when I was in school, whether it was the drugs or the fact that like, whenever I was anywhere else away from my mom, I could feel her. I could feel her all the time. I could feel when she was in pain, she would call me, you know, we were so close. So whenever I was away from her, I couldn't think about anything else. It's like almost codependency. Beyond enmeshment, they would say. So, yeah, I just, I was so confused because I also didn't have a great relationship with my dad at that point. But suddenly something started to switch where I was like, maybe my mom's actually not in the right here and my dad's actually not in the wrong. And why do I hate him and protect her so fiercely in life? Like what I think. My whole world exploded. And I was like, I think everything I've thought for the last 15 years is wrong. And then at that point, especially at school, I wasn't great at school. I loved what I loved, which was music and theater and put exams and sitting there. My brain just would go so fast. And I also think I'm left handed. I was forced to write with my right hand, not forced. I just did to fit in. I don't know. But I couldn't keep up with my head. And yeah, I would just try and knock myself out. Physically, because and that that is why I think that same feeling was why I started having a bad relationship with drugs was because I just wanted to knock myself out. Yeah, an escape. Did your family at this point in high school when you were using know that this was happening? No, I mean, I'm the youngest by a pretty long way. So you just get away with more. I was also boarding school. So like and I wasn't. I wasn't using at boarding school. It was kind of more like weekends and da da da. But it was when I would probably go to London on the weekends, do drugs and then go back to school where all of it would just come. And I'd be sitting there going, I can't. My brain is just absolutely in turmoil. And I think also something that's interesting, what you're referring to is I feel like everyone in high school starts to you have a little bit of independence. You're at boarding school specifically. So your brain does start to be like, what was happening in my childhood a little bit? So you're starting to lightly gain this consciousness that you didn't have in those like elementary middle school days. And then you're around more people at boarding school. You're seeing other people's dynamics. And the fact that you were like, is my dad the villain or is it my mom? And your whole reality. Who am I angry at? I'm so angry. That was honestly the hardest thing is the anger. Because I. That was also the part that I didn't know who to be angry. I was so angry at the world and I was so angry. I couldn't make my mom better. And every time I would go home, something would be different. It was out of my control that I'd have to go back to school. And still, I was felt like I was split. I was never in one place. I was like, my head's here. My heart's there. I don't know where I am. And so drugs. No. And that helps it kind of all the question marks and all the curiosity. It alleviates that from you. So you can kind of. Wipes it. But it doesn't wipe it. It puts it under a rug. And then the rug. You're a hoarder. You're a hoarder. Hoarder of drugs. You drop out of high school. Yes. And you pursue modeling full time. How did everyone in your life feel about that decision? Not great. I didn't. Also, that was not something I was like, oh, I'm going to drop out and do modeling. It was more that I have to drop out. Because I will either do something stupid at school. I'm so depressed. I'm going to do so badly. I'm either going to get expelled. Like, I have to get out of here. There's no. This is not helping the situation. And I think I. I needed a shock into like. Because I was like, oh, school. This is such a nightmare. My life's so hard. This is so difficult. No, the real life. The real world is way harder. But I needed that. I kind of needed that reality check. And my parents were like, you know, you had to take a year out of school. You know, you managed to get your shit together. You put on antidepressants and go back. But now you want to drop out. Like, you have to have a plan. You can't just. You know, my parents were also like, you know, you need. You need to go to university. It's like that stuff. And I was like, well, I'll have to figure out how to find a job. I was scouted at a rave. Also, my sister had been a model. What is a model? And. Yeah. I mean, I was like, I did it because I was like, sure. You want me to be a model? Like, good luck. I'll do my best. Like, as long as it means I can leave school and get out of here. But I definitely didn't. I wasn't like, this is going to work. And then. And then. And then. You become one of the most recognizable faces in the world. Just the eyebrows. You're so right. Just right above those eyes, girl. Just the eyes, honey. It looks like you literally took over the world. And so the fact that you're like, oh, I got to get out of this fucking school. Like, maybe I'll give this a try. And then it's Cara Delevingne is fucking everywhere. Do you remember what that early, early success felt like? ♪ No, no, no ♪ do you remember what that early early success felt like and recognition no i don't remember it's weird i don't i do i remember before and i remember you know logging my book around with the model friends that i made and being this stupidity on the tube and going to all the castings and being told i was too short or not pretty enough and i was like oh fuck this sucks this is really way hard like this is not easy also if you do a show you don't get paid i'm like i don't understand where this like goes um i got a job at asos it was five days a week i had a paycheck i was like this is it this is my life i'm so happy i can move around the corner from the asos building i became the like you know number one internet model clicked on for asos like it was a massive deal i really was like i i got my free like sandwich every lunch there was also like a sample sale for like five pounds you get back for those i really that was like a very highlight point and i really thought that that was going to be it and then and then yeah i i remember i'd been into burberry before and i'd done the show castings and i remember even walking out in the jacket and the woman just being like no like before i'd even walked or even said anything and you're like oh god so i remember going in there again and being like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry and being like oh okay i'll be back again and meeting christopher bailey who was like you know what do you like to do and i was like huh what do i like to do oh uh well i i mean i've loved to act that's always been my dream and i play the drums and guitar and i you know would love to do music i just i don't think i'm good enough and i just never been asked that before especially during modeling i was like this is the weirdest thing is he just i don't know and the next day i was doing the campaign uh with jordan dunn and mario testino she's doing it on a beach in brighton freezing cold and i was like oh this is different this is really different these clothes are different this environment is different like you know you're in the like the pvc plastic jacket that it is so cold that you're getting blood blisters down your arms but it's fashion and you've got to make it look good and you're in high heels on a like pebbled beach and you're like whatever i'm gonna do i'm going to make this look easy but that's what i've done my whole life is go i'm gonna make whatever pain this is but i'm gonna make it yeah i'm gonna serve the cunt no matter how much pain i'm in yeah i'm gonna make it look hot and i'm gonna make people want to want it was any of that sudden like attention or validation healing immediately for you i think the the thing that i found wonderful and i'll never i'll never not appreciate and love christopher that for this is that showing me that people there was people that cared more about some other stuff and like to be able to be i wouldn't have had a career without that and without him because especially when one brand wants you then everyone wants you and the whole thing happens and i was just like but it also gave me a pretty fickle view and a bit of a chip on my shoulder of like you all told me i was not good enough and you all made me feel like dog shit and now you all want me and that sucks but also you look where i am now i did like i loved it i enjoyed it i loved going to shows and everyone at that point being very like modeling is so important you know i don't know what accent it is but like just it being so serious and i was like what are we all doing here let's get crazy let's put on my favorite chick let's put on biggie smalls and go like i loved shaking everything up because i was like people taking my picture i'm going to do weird faces because i don't take this seriously and i don't feel pretty like what am i doing everyone thought i was either very annoying which i can see how i was like i can look back at myself and go wow that would have really this little thing just bubbling around but also like it's a lot um or people were like wow that's different i was gonna say i remember obviously we think of models and we just expect them to be seen and not really heard yeah and you brought this personality that was even if we didn't hear you actually speaking was just like popping off the page and it was so loud and it was so exciting to see but i agree i do remember some backlash of people being like yeah yeah what the is this girl doing what are you doing what is she doing you're not taking it seriously you're not working hard you're not which but to me i was like it didn't i was like we're taking photos here we're and we're like isn't the vibe of like if we're all sitting here being super serious like no one's having fun i don't really understand isn't it lucky that we get to do this but then enjoy it play music have fun and sing and dance and anyone that especially at that time who knew me as a model all i would do is sing and dance and be that's what made me feel comfortable on set but did you ever have people be like you need to stop they just wouldn't hire me they just don't hire you or you know they do it once and then you never work with them again but that but you know i had people it was i was pretty polarizing i was quite vocal about how i didn't think modeling was like the fashion industry was healthy for girls and for so many people i was in a really a fortunate position and was in a top percentage where i was making money but so many of these girls were taken from countries and parents and the agencies i was very like that was why i started really feeling quite empty because i didn't like what i was representing and when little girls would come up to me and their moms and they'd be like my daughter wants to be a model because of you and i was like don't don't do it that's a weird feeling cara yeah because you're like the thing that i'm doing for a living i don't believe in it i don't believe what i'm selling and what i'm selling is a lie sorry oh that's what it felt like though because it also wasn't me like it was me but i was so like when i'd see a billboard of myself it wasn't me oh god that's a mind fuck because it's not i'm a girl who wears a hoodie smoking a joint like walking around bare feet and like like a little rother like i'm not this like what the bill like it didn't make sense my friends found it very bizarre like i came back from doing victoria's secret and my friends were like i remember i had so many guy friends at the time and they were like we didn't know you were like hot i was like what and then they were trying to like they were like which one of us is gonna i was like this is horrible like i'm no different it's just a bad bra and latex i do think though something and that is why you've had such success is because you have never dimmed that side of yourself and you have stayed persistent and consistent in the day you got into this industry and the fun kooky faces that you brought and the personality i think that as alienating as it probably was in the beginning because you're all like we guys we all are in on this right this is crazy that they're doing this to these women and we're some of us are really privileged yes from where we come from so we don't have to maybe do certain things but you're like and it's also to do with the you know the body the body stuff the body shaming how skinny everyone wants the racism the everything surrounding it the like it was really it was a pretty rough time in fact i mean listen the 90s and everything were different because i think everyone was on drugs but it turned into a thing where like everyone just became really mean it was just mean and people would do things and really degrade you because even if you were a really big model you know someone would be like why don't you stand on her head in a high heel or why don't you get on your like all falls and bark like a dog that's kind of like because it made people who had been in the industry who were assistants who'd been treated badly feel big and feel important and it was just like oh i'll do anything you say because i just right and they're perpetuating what actually was so painful to them coming into the industry and then it just keeps going and going going and then it does take people like you though that's what i'm saying it's like at first it probably was alienating but then i do think you refusing to conform in some capacity allowed room for other women coming up to look and be like oh well look at what cara delavine's doing like if she can do it i can do my own version of that it makes me so happy when i see models and i'm i'm never going to be like it's it was me it's not but it definitely i think with social media and people having more of a voice i also think that was something that allowed me to feel like oh i am a person actually and i can oh this is fun and if i don't talk then what else am i here for like i don't know and to see people like alex consigne and stuff who i like just so the personalities now and like it makes me so happy because it does make me feel more that more there's still a lot of work that needs to be done in the world in general but that at least people are being celebrated for being individual in their personalities which it was back in the day and i think we have to recognize as women that like when you felt like oh god i'm kind of this outlier doing this it feels that way but then now like you're referencing alex and all these other people you clearly were able to do something that then allowed some room for the next generation to do something and it will just continue but like it feels small but in the collective if you look at history of what women who push the boundaries do like what is that quote it's like well-behaved women rarely make history and it's like here we go well i remember seeing something i think it was jane fonder who talked about when she was younger making funny faces and i don't know why i did it i never really understood why i never tried i wasn't trying to do it it's because i felt so not pretty and I felt so stupid posing all the time that I had to do something with my face I never do that anymore maybe it's because I don't want to get wrinkles but also because like I feel way more comfortable but I remember her talking about it and I was like oh my god it's this thing I can't control like it maybe felt like a bit of a tick like I do have ticks so I think it could have also been that but it was interesting especially when you learn more about women who come before you and women who pave the way they're very they're always you know they're more more likely to rewrite history exactly what you're saying by not conforming it is and it's almost like Freudian for us like you had that thing of Jane Fonda and it seeped into you and then someone is thinking unknowingly about Cara Delevingne as they are going into their field so it's like it all is a trickle-down effect I mean I definitely stick my tongue out still but that's we love that version of you Cara um I have a couple pictures in my mouth I was thinking about it social media oh god yeah a reason you also you just said it yourself like you were able I think for us to see your personality and you were able to shine is because tumblr social media like that was such a huge part of you when you kind of came on the scene so I have a couple pictures I just want your reactions to that okay like facially anything whatever you want an interpretive dance okay oh my god okay still have that t-shirt you do yeah and that oh my god I'm awarded that I told you this this photo it like broke tumblr back in the day obviously I wasn't so I wasn't super aware of tumblr when people talk about now I was like oh yeah I never you were like the face of tumblr yeah I don't know I wasn't aware darling no I wasn't aware I really wasn't people still comment this photo in your comment section on tiktok like this photo Cara I love do you remember anything about where this was taken what this photo is no nothing no idea no babe there are so many photos of myself that I see and I'm like couldn't tell you when where who took it no idea okay every girl wanted the eyebrows they kind of were like a staple do you remember the commentary on the eyebrows and did it make you more self-conscious or more confident really good question I hated my eyebrows my mother was always like you gotta you gotta keep him but I don't I don't know I just remember as I got older I when I say I don't remember any of it I think because fame is even more powerful of uh whatever happened to my central nervous system I was so completely burnt out and shot I was like I'm just gonna black this all out like I really that wasn't even when I was doing I think I was doing more drugs when I was a teenager and that period of time I was just working so much obviously I was probably partying a bit but yeah I don't know it's when I got older and people would ask me about my hair I was like oh my god I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know about my eyebrows all the time it may it annoyed me I was like please I have other things I was like I can't talk for them I wish they could speak but I don't know how to explain them I don't know what they would say like what I it's like trying to represent a part of your body that I wish had a voice it doesn't I'm so sorry okay here we go oh my god I love that pressure I love that so good what do you remember about this iconic photo I do remember that because it was around the time where it was like me Jordan and Carly and we were all leos and we were bopping around New York and they were like the height that models were meant to be at that point which was like six foot and I was five foot seven and a half I say five eight but whatever and that again I'd love I loved a statement t I loved a cap I don't even know if I thought I was gay at that point but I was eating a sticker saying eat treat your girl right eat your girl right yeah I I remember that photo I don't remember it being taken but I remember seeing it okay I love this for you um okay next photo yeah this is fun oh god this is you at the victoria secret fashion show in 2012. oh my god is it true you were originally supposed to come out on rollerblades yes and why are you like shying away and looking and blushing what is this bringing up for you because I anyone that asked me if I could rollerblade juggle drive a car anything that I couldn't do I'd be like 100% I could do that I couldn't wasn't good uh because I always I had a confidence that I if I learned if I really tried to do something that I could I mean they asked me to do that maybe a day before and uh in the rehearsals and whatever rollerblading is it skating it was the four-wheeled skating down the thing and the the catwalk is slippery I was closing that section I think at that point and I fell and Justin caught me and they were like you have to do that again right you have to do that you have to close the show like that I was like sorry basically because I didn't know how to stop at the end so I fell and he caught me and that was very sweet but I was like I don't know on like live tv like no I can't do that and that's probably one of the first times I said no but also those shows like I was not sober in the sense that like I don't want to speak for the rest of the girls but like that is not a nice it wasn't a nice environment personally I think something about I don't know what my gender express I know what my gender expression would be I'm very happy and proud of being a woman but it definitely changed how feminine I what is the word how feminine I seem or come off because of modeling because it felt like that was a part like I growing up I was like I had short hair I didn't like having long hair I didn't like wearing girls clothes like I really didn't like being a girl because I just thought that girls didn't get the same opportunities they didn't get to play with the toys that I wanted to play with and I didn't want to you know that kind of stuff so I think for modeling I really had to become this girl that I wasn't and it's like sexy like that's just not and this was peak like that presenting so presenting presenting thank you you were presenting so ultra feminine and I'm not that and that's not who you are at all and so before that that was fun it felt like dress up but then there was something darker about it that I because also that show like I was in the closet I was gay I was also like am I the only like lesbians ever done fucking Victoria's Secret like this is a big deal yeah shake your asses got you want me to do up your bra like 100 like I was having a great time but also like very confused I felt like I was an no you're backstage being like no one knows but okay I remember seeing Candice Swan upon being like I faint I like this is such a weird story oh my god we were in a we were in her hotel room eating pizza and I can't remember I hope she doesn't get angry that I'm telling this story it's really funny she came in the bathroom I think maybe we were smoking joint I already know she came in the bathroom and she took like she took off her clothes not in a sexual way that's what models do and I passed out Cara I fully passed out or like I I was like standing up and I had to fall back on the toilet as she was like are you okay I was like 100% I'm fine are you okay I'm gonna I have something in my eye you know you're like I gotta get out of here it was a lot like the gay panic people talk about gay panic now like I was constantly panicking and I think I think that really makes sense though now looking back like first of all this baby Cara having so many I can't I can't I can't with with the butt up again I woke up probably had a couple shots of whiskey and a xanax and you wouldn't get runway you wouldn't get nervous to walk a runway on not after that I was having a time my life after that horrible I think um I do think that is so though just illuminating to that entire time period because I do think that seeing you up there so many women would look at you and just be like I want to look like her I want to be her and that's real life though this is like the same as Instagram where you're like babe no not sober the amount of cutlets in that bro like especially because like everyone else was very like womanly bodies and like you know skinny and musky and whatever else but I was I am still up and down like a little rig like I have no ass like at that point I was like I'm not a Victoria's Secret Angel I'm a devil like I'm not part of this I remember when they asked me to be when I was like I don't think I belong here like I don't think this is and then you do it and it kind of goes back to the beginning of what you were saying about modeling where you're like I don't fully know if I believe in this so this feels weird so I'm gonna numb myself essentially to get through it yeah okay this is so cute are you ready oh yeah hi okay okay okay the internet is obviously obsessed with you and Kendall Jenner's relationship and all the iconic photos we have of the two of you do you remember who came up with this friendship name was it you guys or was it the internet no it was us oh God I don't remember I don't know but I had necklaces made bro we were I think it was us I'm pretty Cara Kendall okay I don't know actually that is a super good question okay but you leaned in no but maybe it was that love cover that we did for our time which is where we basically really became friends and met that maybe it was on that cover where I'm holding her or she's holding I don't remember that was when you have such like iconic friendships that the internet is obsessed with like do you enjoy leaning in and doing stuff like this i think at that point it was because it felt like at that point we were like especially when you have friendships when you're modeling like that it makes i wouldn't have been able to do it with any of those girls that supported me through it like especially like again jordan dunn and like women who even before kendall when i was really young that they were fucking worried about me you know and they were once being like what are you doing like this is so bad you're working too much like you know whether it's agents are giving you drugs to get to walk on catwalks or whatever else like it was i had really really solid friendships of people who were really honest with me so when you have that camaraderie yeah you want to lean in people are going to take a picture of your model at that point you're like let's go yeah we're on a world tour that was our you know we went to i took kendall to glastonbury and gg was hysterical oh my that's amazing it's hysterical you i think that you know you're talking about having like externally all these crazy levels of success right and you have said before and i think this quote is really profound you said if you have problems going into this industry they will only get magnified and exacerbated how did your career heighten all of these wounds for you from childhood for you access to excess so money you know and my dad was pretty smart with me when i left school because he was like i'm not gonna give you money you know you can't i'm not gonna fund whatever they thought or maybe didn't think i remember when i had a mental breakdown i told them i'd been smoking weed like they didn't know i was doing drugs but either way they they didn't cut me off i still lived at home but they weren't like you know they were smart about that um and i think that's what i'm trying to say i think that's what i'm trying to say i think that's what i'm trying to say i think that's what i'm trying to say um but then i had my own fucking money i could do whatever i wanted and i knew where to get all the drugs and all the things and i also was in a friendship group but they none of my friends had money so i was just like let's go let's fucking go like this is gonna be so fun and at that point you know we're like it's gonna be entourage we're all gonna lift you know love that i also can't help but think like you're in the middle of trying to figure yourself out because we talked about like high school you're repressing you're repressing yourself you're repressing yourself you're repressing yourself you're kind of using so you can just be like i can't handle this i don't know what's going on you get thrown into fame and like you've talked about and i've talked about with a lot of people like there is no way to describe it but it's hard to not just black out and you can look back on it but when you're in it you just have to survive and go go go and so you're trying to figure yourself out you have all this attention on you how is this impacting your dating life and like you said that victoria's secret moment you hadn't come out yet you hadn't you know explored your sexuality fully yeah tell me about that well also back to what you just said before as well i it's also an identity thing and i think when you come from being like what feels like a kind of traumatized child not to be dramatic about it to then a suicidal druggy teenager to them being a model that you're not but you're pretending to be so many things for people you actually i'm like who the hell i haven't processed any of this yet this is all a mess and i'm none of these things or all of them i really felt like such a shell at that point and a real like i remember writing a lot about how i just was a mirror of everyone i'd ever met and there was nothing underneath it i was just an empty vessel not to be depressing about it but especially with dating oh my god i i oh yeah it's rough because it's again i didn't want to be gay i really wanted to fit in with people in like i didn't know many i didn't know any gay people i definitely wasn't straight but i really like and especially in something you've been so incredible and talking about like i never knew how to ask for what i wanted and it was very much a performative thing that i would be like whatever this guy and to the point where it's like you know whether it's sexual assault or it's like to the point where you're just like oh i'm just abusing myself to to to basically make someone happy if you want to have sex with me i should feel lucky for that like that kind of thing horrible but then you know i discovered more about my sexuality through sleeping with my friends because there was a safety in that um that also didn't mean we were going to have sex with each other so i was like oh my god i'm gay you know we all had boyfriends but whatever you know whatever happens when the lights go off that doesn't really mean anything um but then i started to look back on when i was a kid and i was like i always had this thing where with like friends of mine i just think i cared about them more than they cared about me but then i also realized that any man i'd ever been with and i feel very bad for these men because they'd always i think i'd play such a role of this cool girl who loved to play video games and would let them flirt with people but was just like so cool and chill that they would fall in love with me but i was so pretending to be something i wasn't and i just felt i felt i feel any man that i hurt i feel really bad because i did take these actually very nice guys for a ride because i didn't know and i also i was quite hurt by one guy specifically who took my virginity and i was like after this i'm going to hurt all of them of you it's so rude and mean but i do think it's like you yes you can be like okay i'm sorry boys but i also think in the grand scheme of what you were trying they didn't also want me i went even when i tried to speak about maybe my sexuality because i didn't they were like no no it's not i'll show you that kind of stuff it was very much like but that was so back in the day that was also so men where you're like no you can't show me shit you don't have a vagina okay so fuck off and my clit is here it's not here oh wow cara okay that makes i think the um so many women regardless of you know what they're dealing with i do think that's a really relatable thing of just going through that period as a young woman of being like is this validation should i just feel good in this and should i not ask for more and if he's treating me like this like i can look past it because at least someone wants me and someone is you know giving me attention and so then you when you said something about validation and it helping me in my head it really did because it helped my ego it helped my ego in the sense i was like maybe i am pretty but it didn't come from inside i think something that i really had to learn is that i really believe that we all have everything we need inside of us and i was so externally reaching for anything that like i just was empty and so you really have to like grow that garden in yourself i guess you do and from you know like then experimenting with your friends like do you remember when you finally realize like okay i think it's women for me immediately deep down immediately but i couldn't my brain was not computing that it was not happening like absolutely not but my body was like oh this is where i feel safe oh and then my heart i couldn't control like i always felt like i was in control with men like i got going around around with women i was and it was a nightmare but also i think i hadn't there was still a lot of trauma with the thing of trying to fix people in the abandonment which i think i put into a lot of my relationships for a long time when do you think your mind and your body connected and you were like i have to accept this and um i think i think when i was in my first real relationship with a woman and i think i'd never been with someone who was gay either and you know we she was 10 years older than me uh and i really admired her but i yeah i'd never been with someone who was actually gay and not we're kind of in secrecy and stuff like that and i was like oh this is this is everything how did you feel with regard to your upbringing and i know you had said like i didn't really have anyone around me who was gay and and i didn't know with my parents or people around me like how it how did everyone handle it when you did come out and just say like this is who i am oh uh i didn't come out because that's again a conversation that i didn't know how to have and i i didn't feel like i owed that to anyone either and i think it would unfortunately different and i think i would have found it a lot harder if i hadn't have been famous or successful because i think you can't really have an opinion too much when that person doesn't need you or is not vying for your i mean of course i always want to make my parents proud but i wasn't like they couldn't stop me and i felt like they would have been able to they would have been able to have an opinion more if i don't know i think i would have been able to have an opinion more if i I think that was also just part of the drive of wanting to. look after myself and survive on my own and be like i can do and be with whoever i want and i think that's very relatable i think when you are financially or emotionally dependent on people and i think that's why a lot of young kids are so scared to come out because they're like i still live under their roof yeah i know what their reaction is probably going to be and so it's so fear-based because it's not just you know coming out and and being open about your sexuality which should be such a beautiful and celebrated thing there's so many repercussions that can come that actually safety wise for a lot of people it's just a it is a privilege unfortunately which is so crazy to even have to say to this day so i see what you're saying where you're like i had kind of cut those ties in that way of i made my own money i was this public person so if you don't like me you can go fuck yourself kind of yeah and what a freeing feeling that must have been yeah but also in that point the industry didn't want me to be gay either mm-hmm you know there was why but like that point that point and when i just started acting where like harvey weinstein called me it was like you can't be gay it's just stuff like that where i again there were also no real gay models but it's weird because now you're now as i've grown up there are so many people i went to school with or people i was close with who now were all gay but we didn't know it at the time but we were all friends and you're like that's just interesting we all had this thing that we knew and now everyone you know they have wives or got and like you're like that's just it's just crazy at that time when you were trying to search for relationships what do you think at in those like mid 20s was holding you back the most from happiness because i couldn't love i couldn't receive love and i don't think i didn't love myself enough to have healthy sexual experimentation in the sense that i think i had my healthy fair share of sexual experimentation but it was usually fueled by uh drugs danger seeking behavior situations where i thought oh that's a fantasy i have but i didn't really actually want that you know and i think that came into that thing of just wanting to feel something even if it's bad and even if it's empty and yeah and i also think it took it took until all the harvey stuff too to really realize that i had been sexually abused and i hate to use the word rape it just always makes me so sad but that that that kind of thing and i'd put myself in those positions but never admitted it or wanted to deal with it or made excuses for it felt bad but that made so much sense for me and i think that's how i would just let people use me a lot whether that be sexually or in any other way because i felt like that's all i was good for sometimes so can i ask so he called you and and told you you cannot be gay and is this before or after this experience with this man so there was wait it was before it was still when everyone was doing these movies bopping around and i was like oh my god i'm not And, you know, he had his wife who was, you know, in that industry. You know, I've been to dinner with both of them with a bunch of people. You know, he had a wife and kids. He seemed safe, right? And he got my number. I was doing a movie called Face of an Angel in Italy. And he called me up and said, there are images of you. And he named some famous women I'd been seen with. And he was like, I don't need to know. He said, are you sleeping with him or whatever? I was like, I don't really know if that's any of your business. And he was like, well, you can't. You can't be with women. You'll never be an actress. You'll never be hired. People don't want, you know, we'll have to find you a boyfriend. At least if you're going to do that, just do it behind closed doors. And I was like, what the fuck is this? And also, at that point, that wasn't my reaction. I was like, oh, fuck. I've always wanted to act. Like, this is such a big deal for me. I can't. You're terrified. This is, yeah. Like, he's a big deal in this shit. And how did you respond in that moment? I don't know. I just said I'm not gay. I promise you. I'm not. I just, I'm not seeing a boy right now. I really love my female friends. And of course I didn't. I think even the people he brought up, I don't know. I can't remember. But yeah, I was pretty terrified. Of course. Because it's a person in a position of power who's literally talking about how you won't work in this industry if you essentially are authentic and true to who you are. And so you are just getting reconfirmation of like, hide, keep suppressing. But also at that point, like, you know, and still I, I regret not. It's not a regret. I don't have regrets. But every role I played at that point was straight. I was the lead and I had a boyfriend. And, you know, I was playing that woman. So, I mean, was he right at that time? No. But at that point, what was I going to do? Right. And again, I think for you Cara, it was like, there's so much pressure of like the Victoria's Secret moment and this you're like, I know what I want, but it's like, how do I get there? Like, how do I roll this out for myself in a way that won't make other people upset and won't have people trying to hurt me because of me just trying to be honest to myself. And that is so complicated. And then, like you said, like you, you then are in these situations where you're, you know, you're using and you're trying to suppress and then you're also repressed and it's like, whoa, I need all of this to kind of stop so I can try to get my head on straight. I know you have like lightly spoken about your sobriety. Not a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a lot. And you talked about this earlier, too, where you've said you tried to match the emotional pain inside with physical pain on the outside since a very young age. Can you talk more about what that just like? Like, looked like for you as you kind of started to get to peak where you were like, maybe this is getting a little out of control? Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, as I said, when I first started doing drugs, it was that seeking for seeking connection. And I felt like I found myself, you know, I was fun. And I loved music. And I love dancing. And I was like, Oh, this is someone I really like, this is really cool. And it was at a pretty young age, I started because I didn't have money at that point, I started buying drugs to sell them and to do them. And I remember ketamine was really the first thing that I think, which, which is a really crazy thing for me now, because I remember when I got sober from that, and that was in my early 20s, that it blew up in America, and it was like this thing to treat depression, everywhere, Instagram adverts, billboards, people talking about it. I was like, what? I mean, I knew it numbed me out like 100%. But like a lot of things, people don't realize the danger behind that because how badly are the things you're running away from and how badly when you numb them, they all come flooding back. They don't go away. They don't. So that's when I think, when I bought the drugs to sell, I just did them all by myself. Not all of them. I sold half of them, did the rest. So I basically did the drugs for free. Wasn't a great drug dealer. But I definitely, I knew it was bad when I started doing them alone and how much I liked that and how much I knew that people weren't judging me and I didn't judge myself for it. And I could disappear. And that's what I did. I knew it was a problem. And that was young. But with work, it's not a problem because I'm working, I'm making money. You know, it's, you know, I would be in a state where I'd definitely be more fucked up than people. But I am going to work. When you're 20s, you can kind of do that a little more. But then my body just couldn't take it. You know, I think I also, again, I think the kind of suicidal ideation came back around when I was at my height of fame, when I should have been the most happy and I felt the most guilty and I felt the most, like I didn't deserve any of it. And I was so close to ending my life. Not, I mean, yeah, I was, music at that moment really saved me because a song came on on shuffle when I was alone in this hotel room and it was a song that played at a friend's funeral who died of an overdose and it was a really it was like that's the thing when you're in that position where you can choose to try and end your life or not that it is such a quick flip and in that one moment I was like what am I doing why am I doing this I can't believe that I am in this place and I threw all the drugs down the toilet and I um so yeah it had been a problem but when you're successful and when you seem you're doing great you have your hair and makeup done it's kind of fine people make excuses people are making money you're paying for people's lives and jobs and kids you know you don't you don't want to stop you don't want to say no um did you have friends close to you that ever were like Cara yes but also I was good if I say I was good at hiding it people be like no you weren't but if people thought it was bad what they saw they didn't see half of it the damage was really being done because that's where no one could stop me and also I was so good at flitting around different countries and different groups of friends if I haven't slept for three days but then I see these group of friends and I'm still whatever no one knows how long I haven't slept no one knows that I've been partying for this long it's you can kind of yeah you can get away with it in a way that but unfortunately for you it's like then you also have you're like oh I'm lying and I'm avoiding the lying is the worst it's horrible it's a secret it's like and that just wears away at you so much and that was also I didn't realize how many friends I lost not even lost but had pushed away because there was nothing no one could do and I didn't want help I didn't want people close to me I didn't want people you know I could talk about it when I was high I'd be like I know I have a problem like I know it's really bad but also there's a power in having that because then you seem really self-aware right you're like I'm owning it I know it's bad like I know how bad it is and I had all the answers I'd also been to therapy since I was a kid from stuff that had gone on with my mom so I knew all the chat and like uh-huh you knew how to get around it so people were like oh well if she's this open about it then but really it had also come it seems like you earlier had said like it was so I connected with people and it's like it went from connecting to then translating and hiding and that is when yeah then no one's really seeing at its worst I know there were paparazzi photos of you there were many by the way throughout my throughout my tenure I don't know why I just said 10 but no obviously the the worst ones the burning man yeah yes the burning man photos ultimately I know they kind of became a wake-up call um can you talk to me like just where you were at mentally leading up to that moment yeah I I had sworn myself off love I had been in too many relationships I don't want to say that I think you know when you abuse yourself you allow abuse to happen right that's probably far as I'll go with that but I think yeah I was done with love and I was in a pretty hardcore time again I'd stopped doing ketamine but I was it's really interesting the drugs that people choose to do and what that means that they're covering up alcohol was never really my thing I would drink but it wasn't I didn't like it I liked like disassociate knock yourself out things so I was doing a lot of like GBL GBH which is like a date rape drug which is you're just effectively knocking yourself out and then uh taking like cocaine or whatever to keep me awake so it was that kind of like mixture but I'd met my girlfriend my current girlfriend my life partner who we went to school together and from the moment that we had remet after school I was like fuck you make me feel safe and that is something I haven't felt and I am way more terrified of that than I've ever been of love because in that even immediate moment I was like oh no I'm starting to realize how bad this is you don't know how bad it is when you're alone and single I guess and I was honest with her from the first get-go I was like I have a problem I take G every day I'm gonna get better I'm gonna my 30th birthday was that year I was like I've fucking gained it for however long and had a great time and it's just not great anymore but I'm gonna have a blowout 30th birthday and then I'm gonna get sober and it tied up in a neat little bow that I just thought was gonna be really easy um I didn't know how addictive that stuff was I just thought I took it every day I didn't know you really had to like medically detox from it and I started having seizures and that's literally those photos were taken right after I'd had a seizure at Burning Man and I was meant to go to work I mean it was just an absolute storm and also it was just it was so rough and it was right after my birthday so I'd had the 30th which was just me in it was so stupid but I'd rented this amazing house and I'd had all my friends there but they were kind of all there to watch me hurt myself I was so skinny and covered in bruises and I just locked myself in this little tower and would barely come out and that is like but that was what I I just I don't know there's something quite traditional in the sense that when I'm like when I make this decision it's gonna happen I also just couldn't give up that easily um because then obviously I went straight to Burning Man then that happened and I was like I can get sober I'd been to rehab before but I'd focus more on trauma and then I'd kind of dip back into things I was like if I don't you know the one thing I always told myself was because my mom did very heavy drugs I was like if I don't do meth or crack or opiates I'll be fine if you do enough of anything it's just as bad um which is really interesting which is why also I found it I found it important not to talk about what drugs I did but then it's interesting the comments that people make when they're like you know go back and do meth and die and stuff like that when I'm like maybe I should have spoken about it why am I hiding because also I want people I think especially getting sober I didn't see anyone else who did the same drugs I did and I was always like oh they do Adderall and alcohol and opiates and I don't when you find someone who has a similar thing to you it's like finding like a long-lost sibling in a way because you're like you're running from a similar thing there's a similar torsion there there's a similar the battle of it feels the same so I felt it was necessary to to talk about it today I think yeah I've never done before well I really respect that too but the fact that I was but people always thought that I was on such crazy drugs I was like a lot of those times though I was so manic and also I'm a super hyperactive person I don't drink coffee and I am just it's a lot so how does it feel to say it out loud nice nice and I'm sweating though for sure but it's nice I don't is it like a relief my my whole thing is is again with this stuff people are going to take clips of what they want and that's always going to be what it is but I don't I've made peace with it and if I can help people anyone can say whatever they want I know what I've done I'm happy with who I am I don't have any regrets I love myself I've stopped hurting myself I do sometimes still in ways that I like again like dangerous secret behavior will push myself too hard to work out it comes out in other ways but also to me sobriety is not so linear like 12 step really helped me but that's not what's been my saving grace and I think yeah I think the whole thing of sobriety and the shame and the guilt surrounding it I found really difficult I can imagine that I want it because I want to ask you about that but also validating you and like so much of what you were going through for so long you were saying you were hiding and there was a secrecy element and there was this rationalizing you're talking about in your head of like well I'm not doing what my mom was doing so I'm fine I'm fine it's bad right and then I'm like I'm not doing what my mom was doing I'm not doing what my mom was doing I'm not doing it's almost like naming it allows you to own it in a sense and be like there that is that is what it was and I'm not hiding from it at all I'm not hiding it anymore and I'm not going to hide from it because there is also no shame and like you're sitting here today and you're right it really could help someone who's sitting there being like oh my god I never thought that that could be addictive and I've been doing it too and maybe I need to look at myself whatever it is or it's and move forward with your life in a way that's not shame and holding it back um I think that's really beautiful yeah but getting sober um also the element of being so public like I can't help but think these videos and these photos come out in one of your worst I always laugh and I don't know why I do that and I apologize it's because it's so outrageous I was wearing a Britney Spears t-shirt not that that means anything but like it's it's so but also like I'd seen that person I know that girl so well I had to look at her every day in the mirror so when everyone else saw I was like oh oh that's scary to people oh shit I see so you it wasn't even you're like oh those are pictures of me and then did I mean I realized it was bad but oh it was horrible the shame oh the shame was really bad again that was that part of myself that I hated and I was hiding from everyone so for everyone to see it it was like fuck the jigs up that still that person is still a part of me though once you get sober that that girl isn't gone she's here she's pretty mean to me sometimes but I made friends with her and she makes me want to be better and god she's a stubborn bitch sometimes but my god yeah I mean you have to make friends with that part of yourself so much of your the songs and the album is like is talking about this part of your life yes never-ending inspiration can you talk though because you just this 12-step program for you like what was that process for you like of getting sober and what really helped you there's a narrative right about addiction addiction that is uh you know abstinence is the most important thing and it's very rigid I don't do well with that but they also will tell you you know addicts always think they're different you're always going to think you are the one that's going to cheat the system and da da da for sure I feel that way I know it's not healthy I know I have to combat that sometimes but I also know that that system for me hadn't worked in the past it didn't there's a part of it where like you know whether it's oh I've decided to I'm going to try and microdose a mushroom right in previous iterations of social media I've been sobriety that would take me down that my my count has gone back to zero again I'm not sober I can't call myself a sober person then that cycle of guilt and shame oh I'm done now I'm not sober so now I'm fucked up and now I'm gonna do drugs was so strong and such a pull that I also like in my head when I'm told I can't do something when I have the option to go I could go have a beer but I choose not to the power I have in that is something I would never realize I could get and like I love people doing drugs not that sounds like a crazy thing but I love the culture I love music I love festivals I loved that part of going into a bathroom with loads of people and talking so I still love doing that I just don't do the drugs because they don't work for me but I the whole thing of like you cannot do you cannot do the drugs because they don't work for you anything because this will happen in this it was too I would prefer to I don't feel like they're mistakes but I would prefer to toe a line of I'm not trying to walk an edge I'm never trying to go back to what I was doing my priority is clarity sobriety to the utmost and loving myself and so I never want to go back to that place but I also think just pretending it doesn't exist and never seeing it and never doing it isn't how I get there giving yourself some grace yeah in your new single I forgot you describe do you know how much I say I forgot without knowing it now and I say it every day I'm like I've got to stop I forget a lot apparently well it's good because you named your song that yeah it's ideal um and now you'll never forget never um never you describe how jarring it can be to experience daily life while now sober what were some of the first things you noticed and had to kind of confront as you really started to wean off what you had been using oh I was just so fragile I was so fragile and I you know another another point was that I I first started talking about me getting sober for American Vogue when I was in rehab and having that conversation and being like I'm going to be sober now this is what I'm doing and I'm going to do a Vogue cover and now I'm going to talk about it I was still what I felt like was that I was a baby I you I feel like a newborn child but who can technically talk and walk and feed themselves I guess and hopefully change your underwear but you don't you are not fully formed your brain is like oh yeah a lot again I don't when I was I wrote a lot of that stuff and poetry a lot more of it was so intense when I was using so it wasn't as extreme but you're just a raw nerve and that's what that song is about I don't feel that way anymore thank god but I still relate to it and I love that song because for me it's that thing of like that softness of a phrase and then the whiplash of absolute distortion like being slapped around the face with a sonic boom and that's what it felt like being in my head and in my body and when you talked about like your head and your your body syncing up again it's like my my body and my head started to talk again but that's what the different sounds were happening it was just like that's what you said in that Vogue piece you said I hadn't uncovered the fucking hole inside the real whirlpool within now as you are that because that was in 2023 and you're like I was basically a baby deer walking around being like guys I know I'm saying I'm sober but like this is Bambi all nights with the feet fucking spread over we're trying here um now it's like what have you found inside of you that had been repressed and waiting to be uncovered of all of these wounds of childhood and repression and then you just get famous you don't have time to think about it like has anything come up really recently that you're like I've now been able to kind of tackle this that is the first question I'm like I that's a really interesting question in the sense that you mean like tackling things uh that happened or that happened now or that things I've learned about myself anything anything that you're like oh my god I realized from childhood because I was like I have this anger straight back to anger and where does the anger come from I have a pit of anger in me because I never expressed it and I I think yeah when you grow up loving someone who is sick and you can't help them and you would die to save them and there's no reason for it you have no one to blame you can't really blame them you try doesn't work you just hate yourself because they're sick there is this fucking anger that you have that you're just angry against the world and but then also angry at yourself for feeling angry because you're like there are so many people with so much worse shit in this world how do I feel that it's just it's that that cyclical thing but anger is a secondary emotion but I also well so what's underneath the anger Cara oh I don't know I really love anger and my relationship with it now it is a secondary emotion but I also think for me it's like a fire I need it to come out it doesn't have to be anyone but it has to come out in a healthy way otherwise I hurt myself that's it so there isn't and look I cry I would feel as much as I can but there is something I can't describe it and it feels like whatever stuff I had to deal with after I was coming off of drugs I would black out with with uh well like a physical trauma thing and it came from this I can't describe it you just see red or black and slide and I would wake up on another side of a room and it just comes from this like this repressed thing and I think that's what the anger is it's just the repression of so long of it's just that but with that comes so much creativity and fire and for this album too like I feel like I can be angry and funny and sexy in a way that I like not in like a way for anyone else and every emotion that I was scared of I now see as like an amazing gift and I never had that I was so scared of feeling well I think that's well yeah and it's like you're making space for all these different emotions that like you also weren't able to feel while you were using and I I wrote that down the other single obviously out of my head which is great I love it it talks about these intrusive thoughts and dissociation and now having you know been living in your sobriety um and I think it's like you're making space for all these different emotions that you're living in like what what have you been able to process after coming out of that kind of dissociating that song's really interesting because it was based on the idea of being at dinner with a family not mine specifically but maybe uh but being at a dinner with people and everyone's talking but no one's saying the truth of what's really going on underneath and originally the song was called talking heads because everyone's just chatting and no one's really fucking saying it and um and that song for me it was funny because changing it to out of my head is something i constantly am trying to do is get out of my head and into my body but people can take it as i want to get fucked which i just like the dichotomy of that because i also don't want this album to be like this is a sober album and people have to listen to i really have to understand like i really it's really interesting when i played it to people because people are like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry because people are like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry because people are like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry because people think it's about something completely different which i love that part about music how do i deal with it every day it's really hard sometimes this period of time the last couple of weeks have been a lot harder than i've realized uh like i guess with rehearsals starting but then going to the met and can and everything else and feeling like this music coming out and this live shows is the most important thing that's ever happened in my life and i am someone and i used to be someone that used to go well this thing is my next goal but then that needs to happen and then there's never enough i i don't i don't want to say i don't know i could die happy but it is everything has led me to this point and when i've done other things like movies or cabaret on the west end or something there's other pressure on other people to make it good so there's less pressure on you because you're like everyone needs the show to be good so it's going to be good it felt like it was way more on me or i was putting it on me because no one else is gonna be like it needs i mean they are but in the sense that i'm like no it's you i'm you i'm doing this and i'm choosing to do this to myself and i'm driving myself crazy because the pressure i can put on myself is sometimes unmanageable so yeah i mean it takes a strain on on my reality and i'm like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so like you know my incredible girlfriend has been so supportive through this i wouldn't have been able to do this without her this whole process she's a musician i was so scared about what her reaction was going to be what was it she was so incredible about it i cried it was so soon after i got out of rehab and i remember every day i prayed i prayed to create something with this pain and to have the clarity and the confidence and the the awareness and all of it to be able to make something from it and i didn't want to name what it was but i was like what else would it be like what else would it be i write all this stuff i've done music my whole life this is not new for me this is always something i believed i was going to do when i was older i just knew i couldn't do it until i had gotten to this place of belief and self-love um but i remember crying to her in the shower and being like i don't i don't know what to do but i have to do music and i don't know what you're going to say and i think in previous relationships i'd had a thing of whether it be competitiveness or you know some people may not take that well if that's their job or whatever and especially because in in so much of the sense like and i'm sure many people will say this i've had a leg up this is i'm not starting from scratch here in terms of music people are going to listen to this they might listen to it because they want to hate it fair enough but people are going to have eyes on it more that may be a gift but it also might be a curse but in that sense i'm starting with a head start and i never wanted to do this unless i thought it was incredible and i hate saying that because i'm really not someone that believes in like or feels proud of myself but i really needed it to so that if anyone brought this out it didn't matter that it would still be good and people would love it well that's what it was so interesting i was reading all these different this is your biggest fear and your greatest love you also said you were scared to explore music for a long time because you cared too much what other people would think yeah and now obviously we're hearing that progression of you now have gotten to a place where like well it is fucking perfect and i'm happy with it so you better it's not perfect but it's no way oh trust me there are notes i still there's so many things i would change but how long did you work on this directly as soon as i got sober i said to my team at the time i have to get in the studio and they were like sure but like how so many people are like you really have to want to do this and i'm like i get it i really need to i don't know what it's going to be yet you know i've had many iterations of music and being in the studio but again i would mold myself into whoever the producer wanted me to be and i was like oh my god i can do that or this and it just never felt right so i just started from the get-go and in that first week of sessions every single one of those songs is on this album that first week was so like the first song is the mask which will come out and then i don't know it it every day was one of these songs and they were really heavy those first group of songs were really heavy and over that period of time i was like i was finding the joy in it i was finding my voice in it i was trusting my creative instinct more i don't know it's definitely not perfect but it i couldn't i don't know i didn't i won't want to change it now i i know how my head is and i could have worked on it forever of course but yeah it's been basically since then and i think doing cabaret really helped you know i never i performed live before but really singing no help with a mic every night moving around and really like there's no hiding in that play there's no soft like pop star like like tombra to your voice you are fucking belting and screaming and crying and hitting yourself and i was like oh i can i can i can be that nuts but i can do this for myself like that's rad i also am thinking about you sharing this first yes with your girlfriend and then did you do like a listening party for friends and no no no no no cara so like has margot robbie heard it yet no yes what no margot's had some people have heard listen i'm not uh until things are done as well okay i also like my girlfriend's incredible because she's fucking honest with me and so i had to come back and be like look how good this is and she was like so i was scared i was scared but i needed that from her because also when she would say something i would go no no actually i like how it goes into like a weird time signature and bends and sounds like you're being slapped around the head with a distortion but yeah it helped in that sense i've played songs to people i've sent people a video oh my god but everyone says something so similar which is it's just so you but i didn't expect what that would be that's exactly what i said to you i know i remember what you've said but also but that is literally what everyone says and it's really that is as as an artist as i still find it hard to say sometimes as a musician ha um it is one of the nicest things you can hear because i don't i said that to you i was like i don't know like what should cara delavine sound like because we know your personality yeah but i had no concept of how that would translate into music and i remember pressing play and being like huh this is incredible and you like take us on a ride that it was so unpredictable and yet so now in hindsight predictable to who you are that it all makes sense um but it was so unexpected in the best way because again we had nothing to pull from we had no no no okay so we have two singles i've forgotten out of my head they'll be coming out then i heard that maybe you're down to give us a little sneak peek yeah of another song yeah just play us a little something yeah can you give us any context yeah context yeah um it's about my girlfriend it's uh she is one of the most she hates grand gestures she couldn't i'm definitely one of those people like write a song about me oh my god i would love like we're very different in that sense so i wanted to piss her off in a cute way by writing her love song and but it's also like sorry but this is a love song you know it's like apologizing for the fact that like i can't help it i love you so much when did you first show it to her what was her reaction oh my god that's such a good point i don't remember because it was so the original iteration was not good enough yet and i knew if i had to play that to her like that would be the first thing especially if that song wasn't good enough that she'd be like you can't i'm so sorry you can't put that out so i really it took me a while babe this is like a disgrace for our relationship like don't do it like please i'm like god damn it and especially because she the worst part is she's like an incredible guitarist like she's like a great guitarist and she's like i could listen to her play guitar and sing forever but in this i play guitar forever i'm not i'm i'm fine i'm fine at best listen i'm still getting better but like i've decided in the show that i'm gonna like shred a guitar solo which again the pressure when we went to school together she's like just the pressure of playing her any of this music or playing in front of her oh my god when she is like a phenom of a guitarist makes me want to die a little bit cry cry but she supports this song she really does she loves it and that's all that matters okay play us a snippet come on no but also i can't help it i love her and she's gonna have to deal with it no it's all been so sweet yeah i know we're not asking about techniques today you know why not i thought that's what it was for sex education girls let's go i love you saying i'm sorry this is a love song you're like hi babe sorry i'm sorry cara it's definitely the more poppy one but that's the thing about that is like all the other songs are quite heavy and about abusive relationships or whatever and that song i was like oh let's just go have fun yeah joy rad love love it's so fun and i love that you did that for her where you're like you have no choice i'm sorry i'm i'm writing you a love song take it or leave it but it's gonna be in the album yeah it's so incredible and i'm so excited for you i can feel your like genuine passion and i feel like you're right like we've seen you do so many different things obviously throughout your career but this i'm so excited for you and i'm so excited for you and i'm so excited for you and i'm so excited to see how you talked about obviously modeling and you're so grateful for everything it gave you but the amount that you are passionate about music i think hearing your whole life story it's like you've been kind of waiting to find you and your thing and it feels like that is this which is really beautiful it's like a perfect little crossroads because also the music industry is not easy you have to really want to do it and i really i again kind of like writing that song i didn't have i don't have a choice like it is where my heart is it is where my head is i can't there is nothing else i can do right now i don't know how to describe that and you're about to go on stage tonight yeah are you no don't no i have to transition into like yeah yeah it's freaking me out but yeah no it's gonna be fine you're gonna be fine you're gonna be completely funny because the show is called getting my shit together and so you're just getting but also i was like i'm not gonna invite anyone i know and i've invited people everyone that you know i'm like what because it's harder to do things in front of people you know yeah like if you were playing that song in front of like a bunch of i'm a random right i'm already nervous so playing that song just now and i'm not even singing i'm saying it no but because now we know each other more but like if you're playing it for random you're like take it or leave it yeah the people you're friends with you're like don't look at me in the eyes no don't i got i played it to two of my friends who two of my like oldest friends well my oldest friend and her girlfriend her fiance i should say but it was just two of them in the studio and the lights are black and all i i couldn't even look at them i couldn't open my eyes and i look over and my friend's just sobbing and my friend doesn't cry and i was like oh my god that makes it even worse what am i meant to do cara god it's you're gonna be amazing you're gonna be so amazing this album is gonna be amazing i can't wait for you i'm so excited for you i think so much of what you've gone through in your life it's really inspiring to see how you are sitting here today and what you have done with every aspect of your life and how you've kind of like molded all together to make it be your purpose essentially it's really really inspiring and i think so many people are going to love your story they're gonna love the music and they're gonna love the music video we got budget baby girl we got budget girl we got budget persuasion i had to do on that one um no seriously thank you thank you so much and i also just wanted to say thank you i really love what you do and what you stand for i think it's incredible so to be on here and talking about this i'm so grateful for you and i'm so grateful for you because this was a very big deal i was honestly more nervous about this than i was about doing the show tonight but i also love the fact that finally coming and talking to you now feels like the right time and also for anyone who feels stuck in their life like i'm not saying sobriety is for everyone but what it did for me obviously i had definitely had more of a problem than most people do but what it can do just because the society we live in we are so filled with so much information and pain and so aware of what's going on in the world that escaping and numbing is so easy and so whether people have a problem or not escaping is always a problem so to be able to get sober with your friends even if it is for a period of time or whatever is never a bad thing but it also doesn't have to be perfect and also any sort of creative endeavor or any endeavor that makes you uncomfortable will always allow you to grow and if you are ever stagnant just keep moving in that sense so oh god wide mouth open done done um thank you so much for coming daddy