Capri Pink

(upbeat music) - Hello, I'm Annie Sloane. - I'm Tristan Merriam. - And this is The Colorist, a podcast about color and its influence on our lives. - So today, what we're gonna be talking about is Capri Pink, 'cause we're gonna be basing every episode on A color and moving backwards to explain where it comes from and its history. - Etc. - But before we get into all that, maybe we should say a little bit about who we are, why we're here and what we're doing. (laughing) - That wasn't meant for the recording, but I thought, "Oh, so we forgot to laugh it." - I can't wait to do it that far. - So for the people who don't have a clue who I am, I've been looking at color and pigments and everything around that area for at least 50 years, actually much more. I went to art school in 1966, yeah, that long ago. And I came from a very creative and arty family. So I started making paint 35 years ago and it's called chalk paint. And every color I make is informed by my knowledge of paint, some quite nerdy about it, about pigments, about art, color, science and styles. So it's all informed by that. And I love talking about it. I love thinking about it and just and telling people. I work with painters and retailers all over the world, including Tristan Merriam of Dog Head Design. - Hello. (laughing) - Here's our brand ambassador and has a fierce and fiery interest in all things creative. - Ooh, I'll use that on something. I'll put that on my website. (laughing) - Well, I don't have as much knowledge as Annie, but I think first, the first fairly important point to this podcast has raised is who exactly am I? It's a really hard question to answer on something like this. But I am first and foremost a furniture painter and upcycler. As Annie said, I'm a brand ambassador for Annie Sloan and a chalk paint stockest. Up until just over six years ago, I was a primary school head teacher, but discovered Annie's paint after attending a workshop and it really did change my life. I quite literally fell in love with it there and then and that day decided to take a huge risk by handing in my notice and starting a more creative career path. So six years down the line, I am a small business owner and I run an independent shop near Bristol called Dog Head Designs, where I champion local artists and makers as well as my own painted furniture. I'm also on a BBC TV show called Money for Nothing and I love all things textured, colorful and creative. Unlike Annie, I am not art trained and here to soak up all of Annie's knowledge and creative influence. So let's get going with episode number one, which I'm very, very excited about. And Annie, if you want to introduce what this is going to be about and what the listeners can expect. - So every episode is going to be based on a color. So this time it's going to be Capri Pink and each time I will talk about the background, the history, the whatever it is 'cause each one, each color has a special thing about it. So Capri Pink is named, they've all got good names, but this one is a name because for me, it was a very fifties color and I was brought up in the fifties and Capri Pants, the island of Capri, that I mean, little beautiful blondes in little scarfs, little head scarfs and. - Was that you? Were you describing yourself? - No, it was the woman that I love being. - The beautiful blondes. - No, you're not being called pink hot pants on. - Not me at all. But I looked at these sort of, they were a symbol of this sort of particular, very racy and gorgeous life. And they would be in a little lumbaretta, going off with their little Capri Pants, probably in Bright Pink. So that was partly why I wanted to, and I thought it was a nice, I love that idea. But really, the color was inspired by Elsa Scaperelli, who was, rather she died in 1973, with an amazing designer who, for me, is synonymous with the name Shocking Pink. And as a child, I remember people talking about Shocking Pink. I didn't know I'd dare about Scaperelli or anything, but I knew Shocking Pink. It was what people talked about. It was interesting and a bit wild and a bit wonderful. So that, I couldn't use the name Scaperelli for the paint. - That was my question. - I was about to ask, why then? Did you not call it Scaperelli Pink? - Because it's registered with the trade route with everybody, and I couldn't have done it. So it's sadly, 'cause I would have loved to have done that, 'cause that would have nailed it. But we still have this word. And I didn't want to call it Shocking Pink, partly 'cause there's a lot of other Shocking Pinks out there. And it is Shocking, but it's not so Shocking, it's not luminous color. It's a really, I think, a very, very beautiful and quite sophisticated color, which is what Scaperelli was. So Scaperelli was a designer from the early part of the 1900s. About 1920s, I think, mainly about 1930s, which is really, really going for it. In 1937, she seemed to produce everything. But what I loved about her was, as I say, she made a perfume called Shocking Pink. One of the things about it was it is an incredible bottle. And that bottle was based, it's a woman's shape. - That's gonna say a female torso sort of thing, yeah. - Do you know who it was based on, that figure? - Not herself. - No, May West. - Okay. May West was a big actress of the time, very voluptuous and incredibly sexy. - If you do say so. - Well, that was the point, she was very suggestive and very naughty. There were lots of things that she would say. Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me? - Well, I think that's where that's clearly something that Gaparelli was interested in, that element of shock and designs that made people kind of set up and take interest. It was, they were designed to cause conversation, cause a stir, ruffle a few feathers. - Yeah, definitely, definitely. And what she loved doing was working with other artists. And I think that, well, she was not an artist so much as a designer, but she loved to work with artists who were like, a lot of them were surrealists and dada people. And so they were people who were sort of on the edge of art as well. - So what was some of her? I mean, people might have heard the name Gaparelli and might know a little bit or just think of one iconic thing, whether it's shocking pink or the perfume or a particular outfit she designed. What would you say some of her most iconic creations were? Like a few spring to mind for me, but I'd be interested here. - Yeah, what do you think of when you say Gaparelli? - Well, before researching this podcast and sort of finding out that we're basing it on Gaparelli, I think the pieces I'd heard of were the hat in the shape of a high heel. The purse in the shape of a telephone. And also the lobster dress. Because I've actually done a few paintings with a lobster theme. And it wasn't, they weren't based on that knowledge of Gaparelli, but it was interesting when I later learned that that's what she was famous for. But I thought, oh, lobsters are cool. - Interesting lobsters have come through partly because she did it, but it's not just her that did it. It was actually Dali, the Salvador Dali, the surrealist or whatever you like to call him, painter. And so because they were being used, she then used it. And that sort of carried on. - And a very wonderful way of bringing together the art generally, whether it's poetry, art, fashion. - So she worked with Dali, who was one of the great painters of the time, who did outrageous things, surrealist things. Surrealist meaning that it is sort of not real, basically. And it's come from the dream, it comes from subconscious, where you're putting two things together which you would normally not ever have together. And that's what surrealism is. And so she was finding that really, really exciting. And so she worked with him. He did a design which is a lobster on an evening dress, scattered with bits of parsley. So the idea of a lobster which is food with parsley on it is a bit crazy, but it worked. And it is so, I mean, I think it's a beautiful, beautiful dress. - It's an amazing dress. Yeah, if you don't know the one we're talking about, it's very easy to find. And it's just so random. And I think that at the time would have just caused such controversy, I suppose, because it was so different to what other things that were being created. I've got a quote here where she said, "Working with artists like the ones we've mentioned and more gave one a sense of exhilaration." And I think her designs in collaboration with these artists were quite exhilarating to look at. And they still are. - Yeah, that's great. - I find them very inspiring. - Yes, oh, they are. That's a nice quote. I've got another quote which was one felt supported and understood beyond the crude and boring reality of merely making a dress to sell. And so that's why she worked with these people to sort of make it spicy up, basically. Which I think is great. - She only needs to sell one dress with a lobster on and that's her maid. She doesn't want to sell hundreds of them. It's just about the one thing. - Yeah, I think who was, oh God, I've forgotten. Wallace Simpson, the wife of the Prince of Wales, who would have been our king, had to abdicate. She was photographed in one of, in that dress with the lobster on it and that maid, I mean, everybody was talking about it. 'Cause and that was shocking as well. - That's where I suppose the link to art come in. 'Cause the artists were creating and are creating pieces that caused discussion and evoke feeling and she wanted to bring that into fashion. Which I think is very exciting. - Very, very exciting. - So moving back to Capri Pink and this shade of magenta which became known as Scaparelli Pink. She was very famous for it. Did, was this the first time in the world that this colour was really made popular? Had it been around before or was this the first time it was really becoming a household name and recognisable? - Well, I think what would have happened is at the beginning of the 20th century, there were big developments in chemistry basically and that you could make stronger, brighter and cheaper colours that would be available to everybody. Stronger dies so that, you know, before that, it wasn't that long before in the Victorian times in the middle of the 19th century when you could get a deep burgundy, a deep, calming colour. You couldn't get that before then. So suddenly this is not that much later, about 70 years I suppose, that suddenly you were getting not just a deep burgundy but a brilliant, brilliant, bright, vivid version. - Very vivid, yeah exactly. - So her friend, the socialite Daisy Fellows, described this colour as bright, impossible, impudent, becoming, life giving, like all the lights and the birds and the fish in the world, but together, a colour of China and Peru, but not of the West, a shocking colour, pure and undiluted. And I loved that, because that has a function itself, doesn't it? - Absolutely. I loved it being an impudent colour, that's really naughty, isn't it? - Yes, exactly. - And like all the lights and all the birds and the fish in the world, are just very poetically written. - Absolutely beautiful, I've not heard that one either, so that's fantastic. - Well I'm teaching you something. - Yes you are, you are. Well this is what's all part of it. - Not much, but a bit here and there. - And I loved the fact that you also talked about China, what did you say, China and Asia, - Very Peru, so that would be about, you know, the colours of parrots, and you know, because you do get some extraordinary bright colours. And of course in India, you get this very, very bright pinks now. I don't know, at that time there would have been a little bit of that, but that would have been new to the Western world entirely. And I think probably not that really vivid and naughty shocking pink that we now have, because chemicals made it more possible. - Yeah, and this is your nerdy fascination with science. - Absolutely. - And the way it's done, which we could do a whole other. - Yes, well I just love that, I do, I think that's amazing. - But drawing on the Indian reference, I think a lot of people who I speak to in the shop and wherever really whilst doing workshops, people I speak to tend to think of Capri as being inspired by India, as in you creating the colour Capri from your visits to India. So it's quite interesting to learn that whilst there's a huge, huge influence with that colour in India, it actually came from a totally different inspiration. - Totally, totally different. No, when I first wanted to do it, because every time I bring out a colour, when I bring it out, it's taken probably at least a year, or probably a year, for it to develop for me to get the right colours, because I've got to mix it, test it, work it out, look at it, glue it all, that sort of stuff. So it takes quite a long time and then to, you know, do find a name for it, everything. So I hadn't, I don't think I'd been to India at that point. So India for me was, but I knew of course, I'd looked at loads of Indian fabrics and bought loads of stuff, so I didn't know that colour. But when I went to India, I was pretty well knocked out, by the fact that pink, that bright pink, goes incredibly bright orange, and incredible Viridian green and an amazing purple, absolutely beautiful. But really, you know, it was scaperally and shocking pink. So can I tell you a story about shocking pink? So when I first wanted to do it, I just had this very strong desire to make a very bright pink. Now I don't know where that comes from, but suddenly there's a need. I just feel it. I think that's nothing magical. I think if you're in the world of colour, and you're looking in your painting, you suddenly think, I need this colour, I need this colour, I need it. And I told everybody at my work, I'm going to be doing this, and someone from my marketing department drew me aside and whispered in my ear, Annie, don't do this colour, no one will buy it. And of course, that sort of. - Red rag. - Red rag to a bull, yeah. So, well, that's interesting. But I did take care, I did listen, but I did think, well, actually, I really, one thing you've got to learn, you've got to trust your guts, yes. And this leads me on perfectly because I am going to liken you to scaperally. Because upon reading about her and her early life and her career, she was a very driven person. She was very headstrong from what I've read. She actually ran away from her family in Rome and worked in the United States, and she sort of left behind this luxury lifestyle to pursue her own path. And coming back to what you said, trust her instincts, I assume, and sort of stay true to what she believed in, which I think came into all of her designs. It was different. It was something she believed in that she wanted to push. And this quote I found, I'm not sure where it's from, whether it's from her autobiography or some piece of work that was written about her, but it says her method of approach relied on both impulse of the moment and the serendipitous inspiration as the work progressed. And I think that sums it up really well. And it was actually to the detriment of, to the contribution rather of her demise and the business sort of going under, is that correct? - Well, I think what happened is that the war happened because she did a lot of these things, like I said, 1937. So that was just before the outbreak of war in 1939. And that made everything change. People were being fun and frivolous and had lovely time making putting hats on their heads, making them into shoes on their heads, making them to hats. I mean, all that is gorgeous and fun, but probably with the threat of war, people get a bit serious. And when they came back after the war, long time after 1945, people were probably a little chastened. People had died. People as houses were gone, bombed in the war, and all over Europe, and all over Britain, and everywhere in America would have happened as well. So it would have been affected, I mean. So all that would have made people a bit more utilitarian and we don't, we go for somber colours, they would care. - I'm not up for a lobster dress anymore. - We're not up for a lobster dress. - Or a shoe on a hat. So it's just not happening. And I suppose she refused to conform to that change. - Well, she carried on doing. - I mean, it's hard to change, isn't it? If you've been putting buttons, which in the shape of a cicada, or a dress with some hands embroidered onto it, I mean. - It would be asking her to change her artistic way. And that's very, very hard. - Very hard. - And I think that's what I meant. 'Cause wasn't she very closely rivaled to Coco Chanel? - Yeah. - And whilst Coco Chanel changed her way of doing things, she didn't. - Well, she grew with it and she did the new look and it all became a very different look, very tailored and tidy. Whereas of course, Chapperelli, so Scapperelli's was all much more exuberant and crazy and arty and all the rest of it. But I love the fact that she was so arty and I think she might probably be the first designer, fashion designer, I don't know, to bring in that sort of whole thing of artists and working with artists and an artist's movement. Because it's not just a way of looking at things, it's the way of thinking about things. It's a concept, conceptual things, which is carried on now, you know what I mean? That's carried on to chalk paints. 'Cause we talk about furniture art quite a lot and actually using furniture as a way of conveying art and she, I suppose, thought of that in the same way with clothes. It's combining the two. - Yes, although I have a thing about calling furniture. - I know you do. I'm pushing a button to some purpose. - You're doing it deliberately. Yeah, I have a thing about people saying that they're an artist when they paint furniture. I think they're a decorator. I mean, I would call myself a decorative artist, decorative furniture painter, but I'm not an artist. I mean, an artist, you can be an artist. You can paint, actually, you can paint a picture and not still not be an artist. For me, an artist is someone who's pushing the boundaries and making different, I don't know, making a new concept. I don't want to talk about what I think art is. I just think decorative art is making something beautiful that fits into your dining room, your sitting room. It gives something gorgeous, and people can do it. It can be just paint blue. Or you could be painting the wonderful things that you do. And many of the painters, star painters and painters all over the world do these special things which are just wonderful, and it may be spots or dots or a landscape, whatever. - And no matter what you think of it and clearly opinionated with that, it does merge those two worlds together. - Doesn't it? - Oh, that's the special thing. - Apparently. Well, a designer can be influenced by art all the time. And so I feel that I have bringing art and bringing art into my pictures all the time. I'm always being influenced by it. And some people say, "Well, I'm not influenced by art at all, where you are." But you don't know it possibly, 'cause it's all around us. - So how do you think Scaparelli continues to influence us today? 'Cause obviously the brand and the legacy is still very much alive and going strong. Lady Gaga wearing a very famous dress, I think it was last year, an award ceremony. And as a house, it's still very influential. In what ways do you think she and her designs influence our world of kind of painting and interiors and that side of things? - Well, for me, it's a personal thing for me. And I brought out Capri Pink to be that slightly shocking, that slightly naughty look at, because Pink is like, "Oh, my goodness, that's not, I can't have that." But I did a lovely painted piece, actually. My son Felix did it. He painted a rather elegant sort of fifties, but looking back to the Cocoy thing sideboard. And we painted it, Felix painted it, Capri. And then push on it, a daikupage with gilding on it. - Of a lobster. - Bringing it back to the lobster. - And, you know, it just looked fantastic. I love it, it's one of my favorite pieces because it has still that little bit of connection, even if people did not know why the hell there was a lobster on there. It sort of worked hugely. And so for me, whether you know about her or not, there is that wonderful thing about being elegant, but wearing and using a colour, which is extremely bright, and IE possibly bad taste. But there is a big difference between a bright Barbie Pink, which may not have, it doesn't have the cook, the sophistication or depth in that colour. So when I make a colour, it's not just a bright pink in there, there's not just a big bright pink pigment. I try to add all sorts of other things in it to make it a sophisticated colour. And so I think that it can be a sophisticated colour without being cheap. So I think sometimes people think a bright, bright pink, a bit cheap and nasty, but it's not, it's not. And I think that continues on and it allows you to use it in design. So one of my favourite designers is his dead now long time back, but he was called David Hicks, a British designer, called David Hicks, very upmarket, beautiful stuff he did, incredible heritage that he's left. It's incredibly beautiful stuff. And one of them, my favourite rooms, and I was shocked by it when I first saw it, is that he has deep chocolate brown walls, absolutely delicious. And bright, shocking pink, full curtains. Pink, capri pink, specifically. It's a sort of chocolate brown, are such a good combination. They're so gorgeous. Same with blue and brown. I, blue and brown, pink and brown, if it's the right shade of pink, which Capri is. Yep. Excellent, but you don't have a chocolate colour in the range. I do have a sort of on-floor, yeah. So anyway, we'll just have to zip my mouth. Oh, because there might be more. Or who knows? Well, just one of the reasons I love short paint is that each colour, and we've just taken one colour today, Capri, each one has this amazing thought process behind it. And that, I don't see in any other brands. I think so much thought and history and inspiration goes into creating a colour. So it's not just bringing out a pink and calling it a name or a number. It is actually so much more considered than that. And, well, at the time of recording this podcast, there are 46 colours in the range. And that's, and there have been others that have been discontinued over the years. And there will hopefully be more colours to come. And that's a lot of thoughts. There's so many colours in the world, but each one is special and unique because it's got so much behind it. Yeah, well, thank you. Well, I do try to put a lot into it and every colour. I see that it matches everything. I add white to it. I add other colours to it to make certain that the colours all work and work together. And as you know, there's no black in my paint because of that. When you add white to it, it doesn't make a grade colour. It makes a really beautiful, strong colour. And that it does have a certain sophistication. Because if you just put black into a colour, it will make it less sophisticated. And I give it some other bits to it so that it doesn't look like a cheap pink. And to go off on a small tangent here, for those people listening, they might be thinking, what's chalk paint? What's that for? Very briefly, because it could be an episode in itself. What is chalk paint? And when we're talking about it and furniture, what's it designed for? It's designed paint on furniture, but anything else. So it goes on metal, fabric, wood, plaster, brick, plastics, I've probably not mentioned everything, but it more or less goes on everything. And so that you can paint it and you can paint it in lots of different techniques. It's come got my background in fine art and say that you can do all sorts of things. And my idea is to give it to people with this sort of colour box of colours and that you can mix them in lots of different ways. So you've given everything and then I hope to give you lots of knowledge about it to put it together in lots and lots of ways to sort of educate, I'm not educated, but to help, really. Yeah. And, you know, and together we can make this really amazing gorgeous, because it is such a fascinating subject, I think. I do too. Now, the colourists, the name of this podcast is also the name of your book 'Azine'. So tell us a little bit about that, Annie, if listeners might like to do a little homework before the next episode. Right. Well, the colourist is a book 'Azine'. That means it's a like between a magazine and a book. It's got no adverts like a book, but it's got lots and lots of articles about lots of different things and lots of gorgeous photos. And each issue is 'A' colour. And so you end up with a sort of colour library. And this 'Shaparelli' or 'Scaparelli' pink, that one is in, that all about that is in issue six. And it's called 'Punchy Pink', and you find out lots about it. And you can get those from online, wherever or on one of our stockies that will be fantastic. And I suppose this podcast is really a continuation of everything covered in the colourist book of the year. Hence the same name. Yeah, exactly. Well, our first episode has hopefully given everyone a very inspiring introduction to the colourist, and what to expect from future episodes. So speaking of this, Annie, let's see what is going to be the topic for episode two. It's going to be pure. Pure white. Pure white, that's exactly it. Okay, first thing I'm thinking, which other people might be thinking is, okay, episode one, capri, punchy, vibrant. Wow, it's a really exciting colour and white for episode two. Well, I think you might be surprised. It is as a surprising history. And quite, yeah, quite shocking in its own way. Interesting, I need to learn more about that. I'm very much looking forward to it. So much more to come. And so many interesting colours and topics left to discuss. So thank you for listening to our first episode. We've done it. That's very exciting. We hope you've enjoyed it. If you'd like to contact us with questions about this episode or future ones, then you can do so on Instagram. That's your best place to contact both of us. My handle is Dog Head Designs on Instagram. And I'm Annie Sloan's Instagram. So that isn't it. Thank you very much. See you next time. See you next time. [MUSIC]