CANNES DAY 3: The Art of Standing Out: Pablo Rochat, Sir John Hegarty & E.L.F Beauty

>> Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the "Colonel and Samir Show." We're here again, day three of "Can Lions" at the LinkedIn Lounge hosting our daily show. Today, we have an exciting episode, a lot of guests. >> Yes, today. >> We're going to be joined by directors. We're going to be joined by Cory Marchisoto, who's the president of Elf Beauty and Stacey Marta from Adobe. We're going to talk about how to stand out as a brand, as well as a legend of advertising, "Surgeon Heggardy." >> Absolutely. >> All right. So first, let's talk about what we saw yesterday on social. I feel like it's interesting being here at Can, being hyper-aware of advertising. And it feels like everything you see has to be intentional. >> Yeah, that's just because we're here. >> It's just because we're here in the south of France, and everyone's talking about it. But probably the thing that was the loudest that I saw yesterday on social was meta-launching the new glasses with Kylie Jenner. >> Yeah, I mean, that was extremely loud. I think there are few true billboards left in this world. And Kylie Jenner is one of those billboards. >> That's an interesting day. >> That doesn't mean that it is easy. You still need creative. I think her posting in Instagram, Carousel, that's pretty low-fi, is the right creative for the meta-glass. >> Let's explain this. So obviously, wearables have been a conversation for a really long time. We've had both Zuckerberg on the show talk about the wearables. Evan Spiegel on the show talk about wearables. And over the past week, the conversation around social has been around Snapchat launching their new spectacles, which are really big, right? And the joke of the internet was these specs are just very big on Evan Spiegel. >> They prioritize clearly in the design, it seems to prioritize tech, not necessarily aesthetic. >> Esthetic, aesthetic. And granted, these are two very different products. Specs are, they do not do with the meta-the Kylie Jenner are wearing, they're very different. >> Yes. So to give you kind of like the landscape wearables, because a couple of weeks ago we read Google I/O, Google has a partnership with Warby Parker. Rayban is partnered with meta as well as Oakley. So a lot of the tech brands are partnering directly with historic glasses companies to bring aesthetic to their wearable tech. A lot of people are betting on the concept that glasses will be the new technology that we use, maybe complimentary to the iPhone or to the smartphone, or eventually replacing the phone. And we just haven't seen glasses that look as good as what I saw meta-launch. >> I sure think that's happening. >> That's what's happening is they're getting cooler. >> They're getting cooler. >> Yeah, I mean, obviously Google with Warby Parker, they make some great looking frames. They partner with another company too. Do you remember the name? >> I don't remember the name. >> But also it's a very cool looking lenses, clearly that prioritized fashion. And now with meta launching these with Halley Jenner again, we've taken a step further into, if she posts that photo and doesn't tag meta, you may not even know that they're smart glasses. >> No, you wouldn't. >> And I think that's where we're getting with these products. >> Yeah. But it felt like a step forward for wearables. And also I just find it so interesting what you said, there's very few billboards left in the world and Kiley Jenner is one of them. That's a really interesting take. Whatever she does, it's very loud. >> So a lot of what this episode is about that we end up talking about is like the difference between advertising around the product and advertising with creators and giving people a feeling. There's like all these different forms of storytelling around a product. The feeling of Kiley Jenner is like cool culture, sex appeal, like there's something just about Kiley. But the product themselves, I think are the best looking wearables I've seen. >> Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. So as we step into this episode, we're going to talk about the principles of advertising. And we're also going to talk about how brands are stepping into being media companies themselves. >> Yeah, let's start with our first guest. First guest of the day is Pablo Rochot. He's an incredibly creative director, a great friend, just funny guy. >> Just understands how you can stand out right now amongst all of the noise. And amongst everything that's uploaded every single day, Pablo is a guy who understands how you stand out, not just as a creator, but as a brand. So let's welcome to the show. Pablo Rochot. >> All right, good morning Pablo. >> Good morning, man. >> How you doing? >> Good morning, Colin Smith. >> You have your sketchbook in front of you. >> Yes. >> We were taking a look at this yesterday. First of all, how do you describe yourself? >> Myself? >> Yeah. >> I feel like I'm a director and creator. >> You make a lot of ads, like more traditionally. >> Yes. >> You make ads. >> Yes. >> And I feel like right now I can, there's a lot of creators here in the context of sponsorships. Hey, let me, you know, basically make stuff about your product on my social, which is stuff that you do as well. >> Yes. >> But you also just direct ads. You directed a campaign for Nike recently, directed a campaign for Gucci, and you have the sketchbook of ideas. Talk to me about just the process of how you approach an ad or any idea. What makes an idea good right now? >> Yeah. Well, it depends on the brief, but basically you want to make something that people want to watch at a basic level. And in order for them to watch something, they have to spend more than a couple of seconds with it. And I mean, you're, people are scrolling through content these days. It's not like they're waiting and standing in front of something, and then walking to another thing. And so it's like, what really is going to be worse so one's time? And I've just been through the past 15 years, just obsessed with what is actually an image someone's going to care about, especially if it's an image that traditionally they wouldn't care about, like an ad or a video of an ad video. I've just always been interested in like how visual language can communicate an ideal like the simplest way. And also surprise people. Like basically I just want to entertain people as much as I can. And I like the challenge of trying to entertain people while also trying to deliver a message. And so I mean, I'm lucky enough that kind of my career has grown as like social media platforms has grown like Instagram. It's like a perfect place for me to like freely test ideas. And so this notebook is a place where I just kind of remind myself of thoughts I have or I'll just sit down for an hour or two when I'm feeling like I might have an idea or feeling creative and just think about a problem. Like it could be as simple as like what's an interesting thing to do with like I see a bunch of cigarettes on the street like cigarette stubs and or cigarette what do you call them? Buts. Buts in France. There's one thing I've noticed. I mean, it's a very simple obvious thing, but like everyone's seeing that too, but is anyone doing something fun about that? So and then also everyone's advertising certain products. Let's like AI product or software. How can you stand out and use something that's in front of everybody in a new way? That's basically how I think of ideas because it's easier to twist something familiar than create some sort of new thing that no one's seen before. In my in my mind, yeah. Let's pull on that thread of the cigarette butt on the ground. Sure. Yeah. I can. Like where do you take that? You say like no one's doing anything fun with that? Yeah. I think most people would walk around and think like what fun am I supposed to have with that cigarette butt around? Yeah. Well, actually, I just mean I haven't thought about it yet, but I was that's something that I think could be worth thinking about. Um, cigarette butts on grounds. Yeah, I don't know. Like they let's say they if I were to brainstorm about that right now, they're gross. People don't want they're not supposed to be there. Like I don't know. First thought, could you arrange them in a way that creates something beautiful? That's kind of the obvious thing. Like yeah, like what's the opposite of what it is? And would that make someone think about it differently? And or sometimes I just think about scale. Like those are tiny things. What happens if you made a big one? What would that look like or feel like? And how would that change someone's mind about seeing a small one? There's a kind of abstract, but it's like a very simple approach that I think is what I like to do is like what's like something familiar and then done in a new way because I think, I don't know, it's just the way I think I think it's just fun. I love absurdist comedy and humor and I grew up like reading New Yorker cartoons like the simplest form of a simple line with a simple image that can like make you remember an idea or laugh in a way that you didn't expect. So let's zoom into your Nike campaign because I'm realizing that that carries a lot of the same energy because it's a one shot and I remember this stuck out to me so much on Instagram, but it's a shot of someone running. Right? And shoes running is a very familiar thing. But then as it pulls back, it reveals that he's running on this concrete mixer. Yeah. So is that that's where that energy comes from? It was like what's familiar, but then doing it a different way. Yeah. Literally like the idea comes from, okay, I'm advertising a shoe, right? I do like oddly a lot of shoe came as like basketball running or like more luxury shoes. So I have like thousand, I've been thinking about shoes for like past 10 years and it's the same stop processes like this. But yeah, there's no idea there yet, but it's like People run. All right. This is a running shoe people run People run on tread like what's another like I just was thinking about treadmills for like all day And like what's an unexpected treadmill originally the idea was Had come from an idea had previously where I wanted to like put a rock climbing wall on us to mint truck And so it's like continually rotating with like the rock climbing holds So you could climb it and it's kind of like a rock climbing treadmill and I just was looking through my notebook And I saw that and at that time I had received a brief from Nike and I was like, oh What if you were running on it not climbing on it? It was honestly that simple, but It sounds easy, but it takes like hours and hours and days sometimes to find that right idea and I pitched They'll ask for like I mean that was like a big campaign. There was like 15 different videos that ended up shooting with them But I just pitched in like hundreds of ideas and I just and I literally just share my Google slide with a client It's like hey, does any of this interest? But it's basically like a sketchbook that I'm like sharing with the It's funny. I'll hear a lot of people work and then in two weeks they show a very polished presentation I actually like to show them just like I let them like join my Google slide as I'm thinking It's just like hey if you're ever ever interested in just see my progress both to show you that I'm working on it and Maybe you have an idea too So explain to us then your Gucci campaign. Yeah, exactly the same. I've always wanted to do something funny with mannequins So what's the campaign like what was the brief and what did you do? Well, okay, the brief was they had just come up with this new collection called La Familia Where they had established certain characters in this like kind of Italian family world some like this like in the The the looks and pieces were designed by the certain attitudes of like the Italian family So there's like a fiery red jacket. It's kind of like a fierce strong woman There's some other like more like I don't know chill clothes for maybe a more like Chill person in the family. That's a very like simple way of talking about their big Strategy, but basically the brief was like we have these characters. We want to show up these clothes like an interesting way We need like I don't know how many videos they wanted you know three or five Well, they send me the clothes to the studio and I just like well first I send them ideas and they just send the product and sometimes I work with models and whatnot But it's a lot easier to like really Display the clothes and like control it in a way where you don't have it on somebody I sent them like 12 15 ideas like lots Italian food ideas like Family portrait ideas using old family portraits on a wall interesting way and And I had been thinking about mannequins for a while and I was like would be funny for mannequins are still What if they moved And what if they did something unexpected and what if they did one thing that represents that personality of that character and so Me it was me and my friend Dalton who makes all my props He we he went to we went to the junkyard. We got like a car door He created these like a little mechanical devices And made like one woman just scratching a car door who was like a really angry person in the family And then we dressed her up in Gucci. She looked fantastic And it was just her scratching a car door almost like a Window display or something and then the next one was a guy trying to plug a plug in the outlet and it was just like ruining the wall And so I mean those are my favorite things something that's like actually possible to make Um and a very very simple like twist on reality Considering that you have such a unique lens on advertising right now This year what would you consider to be one of the best ads? Whoa Sam Uh, what were they There was the uh the one where they painted the people to look like sim characters as coin base Oh, I didn't see that one It was trippy because it looks like just an old video game sim tier but if you zoom in close They'd actually put it makeup on people to look like video game characters That was cool. Oh One that I liked recently and a lot of brands have been doing cool stuff It's like the world cup has been covering over logos and stadiums. Yeah, yeah, you see the Gillette stadium They covered it up in a shaving cream just genius. There's like yeah and Levi's had a similar thing. Yeah I'm heineken. I love it. It's just simple. That's like some humor that I would do like yeah, yeah, just to say like Little bit rebellious. There's funny clever. Yeah Yeah, I love that simple stuff. Can you show us one of the ideas in here and maybe like a visual that you think would stick out Like a contrasting visual or you're like, oh, I think this is it because like you think in images you think in contrasting images And I find it so interesting What's the poster basically if you're making a video what's like the I guess you would say thumbnail maybe yeah What's like the visual and then what's the interesting path to get to that hero moment for the Cementruck I mean, it was a simple zoom out. You're not sure what it is then you realize what it is and you then you can't believe that it is that Yeah, very simple thing in slight of hands. Just like you think it's one thing and it's not um, I mean, that's Yeah, I'm looking at your Nobuk here and I see air pod dice. Oh Yeah, I can already see it where it's like people playing ice with that. That's my friend Dalton how that is You know when you drop your headphones. Yeah, and they they spread the they just like splatter on the ground They like run around. It's actually one of the worst experiences ever. Yeah, yeah, and I've actually done like probably 10 videos just about that Experience because I think it's hilarious But he had the good idea to what if you designed the air pods to be like kind of like dice So every time they drop and fall around they would land on a number and it could actually use it as a game rather than like Thing bad that happened What's this one leaf blower's concert t-shirts? Okay, that one is an idea for there's a lot of leaf blowers in my neighborhood like there's lots of trees And it's annoying right you wake up and it's like leaf blow is super loud What if they act what if leaf blower companies pretended like it was actually like really cool and it sounds basically And announcing yourself as a touring band, but you're just a leaf blower company And so like introduce and just imagine the guys with leaf blowers and it's just like come to your neighborhood or Basically treating it like music when it's actually just the most annoying sound Yeah, and then treating them like musicians rather than just yard workers So that's an idea that's funny and interesting and you're sitting on it in the event that a brand comes to you There's an opportunity. No, no, no, this is just personal, but yeah, maybe a leaf. I don't know where that would fit in with the brand, but um Maybe it can't noise canceling headphones or something So if you were to synthesize this all into like three rules of good advertising. What do you think they would be? um three rules I mean I'm entertained people and I can talk loud I guess Yeah, so I think right now in this moment like obviously we're at canliens. This is like the moment where advertising is awarded You've made a lot of interesting stuff like what do you think the rules of advertising right now are well For me is like you have to ask yourself seriously. Do you actually like what you're making? Like it's easy to like be caught up in like big productions fancy beach Like you know the clients happy and it's like really cool to make an ad you like mad man it's a little And that you could easily become happy and content just because of your inner privilege position to make an ad and you're on set or but And a lot of people aren't honest about this like do you genuinely like what you're making and do you genuinely think people will like it was very simple but I think sometimes you think you can Get your celebrity or you get like amazing lighting and cinematographer and it looks really cool It looks like you're making a fucking ad which is super exciting But you that can't distract you from actually asking yourself do you and sometimes we lie to ourselves. Yeah, this is cool We did it. We did it. It's like a script. We really like and we're like yeah like made it But then maybe a couple days after you look at it or even during And it'd be super honest with yourself like do you actually think this is good? Yeah, and it's like kind of and it's obviously like you have to The subjective in a way, but I If I think people would actually not like like would be more honest with themselves and maybe actually like Catch catch themselves before they go into production with something that they're excited about say is this actually going to work in I don't just I mean in that case you kind of just have to prove a concept it fast and people are not gonna I feel like Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. I think that's a great answer Well Pablo thank you so much for coming on dude. Thanks for being here. I appreciate it and we'll see you on the Chris set. I'll see you in the water. see in the ocean. Bye. Well, our next guest is Sir John Heggardy. He's an absolute advertising legend who's created campaigns for Levi's Audi Johnny Walker. I mean countless campaigns founded a company called BBH in 1982 and was knighted in 2007 for his work in advertising. Let's welcome Sir John Heggardy. I'm John. John. Okay. Jay. Jay. You better. I wanted to have this conversation on microphones for some time. We had such a wonderful dinner with you where we learned about advertising. I wanted to start here because the story you told us that that night when we were having dinner was that you made a Levi's ad that was so effective that it had to be taken off the air. We did and it was called Lundered and it was 1985. It went on air and it was Levi's really trying to reestablish themselves. They were in serious trouble and we'd made this commercial for them called Lundered 60 seconds. It didn't research very well. Believe it or not. Funny thing. But they had to run it. They'd made it. Didn't research well meaning they showed it to people and they kind of went more and not sure. And it's an interesting point and I'll come back to that. And anyway, it went on air and within five days they had to take it off air because they couldn't keep up with demand. And it's a very interesting thing about when you say something privately as opposed to when you say something publicly. It's a big difference in how people take it in. If I say something to you privately, go, yeah, well, John, you would say that. If I say it publicly in front of all of these people, it changes what you say and what you mean. It's one of the great lessons and it's why when you try and research creative work, it rarely, rarely works because you're trying to, one, you're trying to break new ground, but you haven't got that relationship between kind of a private statement and a public statement. And that's what it was taken off air. You can go online and have a look at it. And the other thing about it was that it kind of reintroduced men to boxershords and it remade the careers of people like Marvin Kaye and Benny King and people like that. So it had a, we really did have a profound effect on storytelling and how you tell a story. I mean, I've watched it multiple times, but why do you think it was so effective so quickly? What about that guy in the laundromat taking off all of his clothes? Well, it was kind of again, a public, you know, you take your clothes off every day, don't do what I do. I don't know everybody else, but you know, but he was doing it in the laundromat and he was doing it in the laundromat because he wanted the jeans the way he wanted it. He wanted five or ones the way he wanted them. He only had one pair, so he wasn't rich. So he's telling you, you're telling stories all the time. So it was obviously not rich. He hasn't got five pairs at home, but otherwise you'd do it at home. He goes in, he doesn't really care what people are thinking around him. He's not arrogant. And he puts them into machine to get them the way he wants them. And then he sits down next to this great big guy who hasn't noticed the thing and just doesn't give a shit about what's going on. So it's got a bit of sense of humor in it. But the thing, and this is the fair thing to say, we didn't quite realize it, but essentially we, we remade a catwalk because that's what he's doing. He's walking to a laundromat. He walks down. All these people are looking at him just like a catwalk, like Paris Fashion Show, except it's a laundromat Saturday afternoon in some New York suburb. And it had a connection, but the star of it, guy called Nick Cayman, had wonderful presence. And he had a brilliant arrogance without it being offensive. And if you see him, you confidence, and people bought that, I want that. And then what they really wanted to be was like Nick Cayman. And if I put those jeans on, I'm going to be like Nick Cayman. And it's the old story you're telling. So it was effective in lots of different ways. I like that example so much because for my understanding, the character, the actor Nick Cayman, he's not a known celebrity. Right? So you, I think that's a lot of the talk here at Cannes with Creators is we are trusted faces. We have built-in audiences. If you integrate a product with us, you are a step ahead because people already know who we are. But I think what you do and what Pablo does is having to break through without that advantage. Right? And I think, you know, we've always believed when we were, you know, when I was working in advertising, the star of the show was the product. It wasn't something that you added on. And I think one of the great mistakes today, you know, I look at a lot of advertising and I kind of go, it hasn't elevated the actual product. The story should be around the product. It's a driving the story. That laundered it. It was the jeans that was driving the story. He wanted the jeans the way he needed them, Stonewash, you know, and that was the only way you could get them back then. And I think today when you look at work, you kind of think they adopt somebody else and try and go, I'm going to be great because I've adopted this rather than create it. Now, I think, you know, it's interesting with Creators because I think I've always likened them to like magazine editors. So, you know, if you go to, if you buy a magazine, if you buy Vogue, you buy Vogue because you're into fashion and you're buying an winter, she is a creator. She's the same thing. So it's a different sort of, I think, Creators operate in a different place than sort of a brand coming on an advertising. That's why I think Creators are so interesting because they have developed an audience. And if the brand, the product, whatever is right for them, then I think you can really create something very powerful and effective. So it's a different way. I think that's right. I like to think of the way we are not a billboard. We are more a convention hall. Absolutely. You're trusted in the way, you know, I remember we used to occasionally, we didn't do it very often. We go to magazines and do sort of adversarial, as they were called, where the magazine would go, well, we'll write up the story for you. And it would be, you'd have to put adversarial, you know, but it was the magazine writing up about this brand and it was trusted because the editor of that magazine said, what we've said is true. We believe in this. So you can trust it. And it's the same for Creators. So it's a different, that's why he makes it interesting. It's a different way of approaching something. When was the first time you came to Canline's? I've got fun. I was thinking about this. You know, the first time I came to Canline's, one, you could see the beach and two, you could walk on it. How about that? Oh, it was the wrong time ago. No, I came in, I was on a jury, 1988, was the first time I came. And of course, back then it was film, which is why the line has a film reel. You don't have those anymore. And it was one grown pre. And it was all film. And then in about the early 90s, they expanded it into billboards, print and that. And they started expanding it out. So yeah, 1988, but I didn't come, I sort of used to come irregularly. And it's interesting, Karen. I have a love, hate relationship with it. I do, I kind of hate. I cannot bear drinking any more rosé. You know, I mean, although I have to say, which is very funny, this is why you've got a love the advertising industry. You've got a love. They drank the Carlton out of rosé and they had to go to the Martinez, which is the hotel just further to supply them with kind of more rosé. And I just, I love the advertising industry. Completely irresponsible. But then the thing I love about it is you get to do this. You know, I always said if you don't bump into people on the Zoom and this is what's so great about it. You know, I met, you know, just this morning, I've met about three people. I haven't seen for a very, very long time. That was just sitting out there. And that I think in a world where technology is trying to draw support, I think connections like this are incredibly valuable. We must cherish them, cherish them. So I want to talk about another concept that you've talked about because, you know, this, there used to be a level of scarcity in advertising, right, where there was only a finite amount of ad space, whether it was magazines, billboards, television, today with the internet, there's what, what feels like infinite ad space. And there's a premise that you talk about of stocking versus seducing. And the internet stocks you, right? If I search something, all of a sudden, I am being attacked by that type of advertising. And so how do you recommend with us being in the ad business and everyone here thinking about advertising with the rise of algorithmic feeds being able to reach you? How do you seduce someone and just talk about the difference between stocking and seduce? Yeah. Well, I, I, I kind of realized that the, the digital media strategy is stalking. And I do point down to people in lots of countries that's illegal. So I'm thinking of, you know, if I'm stalked, maybe I should call the metropolitan police up and say, look, I'm being stalked by this brand of whatever. Would you go and arrest the, the, the CEO, please? And I'm feeling threatened. But you know, I, I kind of go. Principles remain but practices change. Fundamental principles of life do not change, but practices change. And I think today, the requirement of anybody in advertising is to elevate what they're doing, is to make it even better, more profound, more interesting, more consistent, and to understand the relationship between the brand and the audience. And it's very funny, we were talking about this as my partner, just earlier on, a student came into me, and he was studying to get into advertising, a wonderful college in London, London College of Communication. He did a brilliant postcard, a little protein, he just gave me the post, and it had a big circle, and it said, "Your family." And then another circle, which overlap that circle slightly, and it said, "Your friends, another big circle, your passions," like that, like three big circles, and right down in the corner, like a pin-hot, "Your brand." And I thought, "This is such a perceptive observation that everybody working in advertising and everybody in brand marketing should have on their wall. Your brand is not that important." If your brand disappears tomorrow, what would happen to the world? Or, "It might be a bit, oh dear me, they're not around anymore, never mind, I'll go to someone else." I was talking to a network provider recently, and made that point to them, but if you've disappeared tomorrow, being convenient, I'd have to switch to another network provider, but who care? But if Taylor Swift dropped down dead tomorrow, you'd have people tearful in the street. And the answer is, once you accept that, then you can begin to develop a communication program that begins to address that, and make people go, "Well, how do I make myself more important? I do so by being funny, by being relevant, by being consistent, by engaging with you, not behaving like a twat, all those things are stalking you." And the brand's don't do it, and I just kind of think, "I just don't get it, I just do this." What do you think gets in the way? Is it to people? Is it measurement? I think, you know, the great thing in life, whatever you do is to try and remain outside and look in. And I think it's quite why, I think outsiders make very interesting people, because they're brought up with that. I'm outside, I'm looking in. And I think if you look at so many of the great artists, the great thinkers, they were outsiders, Leonardo da Vinci, all the way through. He was illegitimate, he was gay, he was vegetarian, left-hand, it's not like, I don't know why, you shouldn't be known. But you look at them, Picasso, outsider in France, he was an outsider. And I think that fact of being an outsider helps enormously. So therefore, when you come to being a brand manager director, whatever it is, you are, remain that ability to step outside and look in. Instead of going into the organization, then the organization is all important or powerful, and you think the world revolves around you. No, it doesn't. And I think that's what great creative people have. I think that's the ability they have. They have that sense to look in. I was just, it was interesting actually, and I have to say, for me anyway, one of the greatest artists, David Hockney died two weeks ago, and I kind of, he was older than me, obviously, well, I don't know, obviously, but he's older than me. But he was kind of like part of my life. I loved his world, followed it. And I went to see an exhibition of his, they had it in London, a place called the Lightroom, where they project his work and he talked about it. It's fantastic. If you ever go to one of those, do go to them. And he was talking about when he went to California, and you suddenly, and he talked about swimming pools. And he said, I've never seen swimming pools like it. And he, you know, and he came from Bradford. Now, you probably don't know Bradford, but it's in the north of England, the only swimming pool you ever saw was municipal, and it's stunk of chlorine, and it was enclosed. So he goes to California, and he looks these pools and they're rippling in the sun, and he's kind of, and he paints them. We're Californians, you'll go, no, everybody's got swimming pool, why is that? But it was that outsider's view of it, and he talked about it. And of course, he then paints a bigger splash, one of the greatest paintings ever. And does a thousand pictures on swimming pool. That being an outsider, and I think brands forget that. I think they, they don't understand how to step outside. Like they don't understand what matters actually about the thing, because they're too inside the thing. So I want to ask you then, because probably one of the primary differences with can and advertising in the world right now is the rise of AI. And most creators, including ourselves, are being asked to advertise AI products. If we were sitting in a room brainstorming around how to position AI to the world, how would you approach that with the timeless principles of advertising? Well, I mean, it's like anything I think in life. There's good and bad about AI. And we will, we debated the bad, and you know, what it's doing, the energy, it's consuming, the fact that it's using other people's copyrighted material. And you have to resolve those things. You have to do it. You can't just go, tough shit, you know. But I view, I think I've said about the two things I've said about AI is one I think it democratizes opportunity. So therefore it's even down the playing field. And the other thing I think is it's not a tool you collaborate with it. And I think this is the first time in life that we've had something like that you collaborate with it. You know, up until this moment, you know, a computer is a tool, you know, my mobile phone is a tool. You know, it's a tool pencil is a tool, you know, paintbrush is a tool. They're tools. Suddenly you have something that you collaborate with. But you're the one that's driving the conversation. And if you let it drive you, then you're in serious trouble. Well, you're, you know, somebody made a lovely observation about AI. I wish it was mine, but it wasn't. And it said, and he said, humanity is AI's greatest asset. And if you think about it, that gives it its opportunity to show what it can do. But it needs you to really do it. So I'm, I'm cursed as an optimist. I think I probably said that to you. I think it's going to be amazing. I really do. And I think we should embrace it. We should be looking to see how we can really elevate what we do. I mean, one of the problems I think is a lot of people have looked at it and you get the left brain people in the world. Oh, look at it go. Oh, look at the money we can save. The right handbrain people, the creative people, all look at it and go, wow, what else could we do with this? And that's where we want to be. And I think the problem is, you know, you look at, you know, lots of these companies down here. And they'll go, you know, as I say, left brain people will be all going, oh, we could save that. We don't have all the need of all those people. We can get rid of them. But they don't see opportunity. They're process people rather than creative people. I don't want to say, I don't mean that. And I kind of, you know, we are creative. Everybody's creative. But we see opportunity created people see opportunity process people see saving. You know, I can do this for less quicker, faster cheaper. That's fine. That's good. You know, this works. But in the end, there's only so far you can go. How are you creating value? And I think, I think really do think, hey, I, and listen, I promise you, I have been around a long time and I've heard lots of predictions about lots of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, genuinely. I think, hey, I is going to be amazing. I really do. I think it's, I mean, I'm working on a project with the UN alongside the UN on World Environment Day. We launched it on 7th of June, which is World Environment Day. By the way, why is it a day? The biggest crisis facing the world. Well, we'll do that on that day and then we'll move on to something else. I mean, it should be permanent. But anyway, I couldn't have done this. Really, I could have done it, but the cost would have been astronomical without AI. I couldn't have done it without AI. So, I'm presenting it tomorrow at the, at the Pallée. So you've got to see opportunity and I think opportunity is there and I think is, I do think it's going to be incredible. Although I have said, and I've said lots of time, one of the great problems we have today, isn't it, is that I say, we're all artists, but some of us shouldn't exhibit. And that's the biggest problem. Yeah, like that. Yeah. I was going to ask you one last question, which is just if you have one principle or rule of storytelling that you can share with us as we step into continuing to tell stories that are trying to reach a lot of people. We're doing at a very fast pace and it feels like it's always good for us to hear from someone who's done it for a long time. Yeah. A timeless principle of storytelling. Tell the truth. The most powerful tool you can ever employ. And it's simple. Tell the truth and create a story around. And it wins every single time. Don't fabricate, tell the truth. Make it interesting, make it funny, make it, whatever it is, all the great stories come from a truth, the fundamental truth. - I love that. - That's the brilliance of it. - Thank you so much, thank you. - Yeah, thanks, I was really, really good. - We can be home, and the branding, yeah. You've got the branding right. - Yeah, thanks, yeah, thanks, great. - Hey, great stuff, really, really lovely. - Really, really good. Great to see what you're doing, too. - I appreciate that. - Yeah, thank you. - No, I'd do the half-time thing. - I like that. - All right, we'll take a quick photo. - We'll do it on that. - Our next guest is Corey Marciosodo. She's the president of Elf Beauty, one of the most innovative brands in the beauty category and on social today. Let's welcome Corey. - Thank you for having me. - Do you mean, Bienvenue? - I cannot say that, I mean, yeah, I did mean to say that. You said you wanted to start with hair. I'm happy to start with that. - Yeah, I think this is a very important way to start the conversation because your hair says a lot to the world. - Okay. - You're talking to the world with your voice, but your hair is really what's speaking the loudest. So I'd like to understand your journey this morning. What kind of products are we using? What's going on in the mirror? Are you using your fingers? Is it a brush like, tell us about that? - There is no product. It is all just, I just put water in my hair and then get out of the shower and that's the end. - You have no styling cream. - I have no styling cream. I have nothing to go product. - Yeah, it's not a single product. - Okay. - So what I actually do is yesterday I jumped in the ocean. I always like what my hair looks like after I'm out of the ocean. So that was it. - You get a little salt water. So maybe I should think about that for product development. - Yes. - Yes, we need a sea salt spray. You just created El Snacks product. - I'll only take 10% of the company. (laughing) - Oh, thank you. - Notice how he's accompanying that product. - Is that a deal we're ready to make? - I think so. - Great. - Let's shake on. - If we talk about percentages, something that I find really interesting about Elf. And this episode and why we wanted to have you on is, 'cause we were talking about brands of studios, like brand stepping into being creators themselves. - Sure. - Right? And you guys have gone from spending 6% of your net revenue and marketing to 25%. - You did your homework. - Somebody did the homework. (laughing) And you've done everything from original music, reality show. You've had a lot of different campaigns. When we were walking up and down the Creset yesterday, some people were walking up to us chatting with us. And I said, hey, we're talking to Corey from Elf tomorrow. What should we ask her about? Everyone had a different campaign or a different-- - Wow. - Some of it was asked her about Haley Bieber and Road. Some of us asked about the Matt Rife campaign. Some of it was just asked about what they're creating. So you clearly have done, you've invested in a way where people talk about you. It's hard to do as a brand. So just talk about your investment into content and how you guys think about that, going from 6% spend to 25%. - Sure. The way we framed it from the beginning and framing is really important is, we're an entertainment company that also sells beauty products and makes your hair fabulous and your face fabulous and will hold you makeup on all day long, even through the tough climate conditions we have to face here in Cannes. And that's really important because if you go out every day and you say, I'm just here to sell you product, then you're not gonna be memorable. But if you go out every day and you say, I'm gonna create a place of belonging that people are gonna return to over and over again because it respects their most important resource which is their time. A place that brings sparks of joy, a place that is elfing entertaining and that was always the catalyst for our content creation. So as we're going through the motions, we are very into and with our community. What do you want to see from us? What do you wanna hear from us? And we actually take the synapses from them. What is happening in this moment that is important to you? And then we translate that into entertaining content that they find themselves in because they contributed to it. So if you think for example about our last big game ad with Melissa McCarthy, none of that was an accident. The conversation was very clear. There was this entire thing about should the big game in America half time show be done in Spanish and what does that mean for the mayor? - Big game Super Bowl. - Yes, yes. You can say that. - I can say it, you can say it. - So it was a conversation that was happening active in real time and this was a place that we had already played with our community. We had already done an original music track with Manuel Tiritzo called Ojos Labios Cata, which is Islipspace in Spanish. So we already knew how to speak Elf Spaniel. We created telenovelas for our Mexican community when we launched in Mexico. So we said, you know, this is a moment that Elf can step in. We've been working really closely with this community to ensure that we can reach out to them in deeply meaningful ways. So our big game ad was about learning how to speak as Spaniel for the big games. So everybody found themselves in it because they said, you know, I uniquely contributed to that. I had that conversation with Elf. I talked to Elf about that. I'm part of Elf's community. They're speaking directly to me. So I think you're a walk on the closet and the way you saw people reacting to different things is because it touched them in some unique way. And very often times brands will focus on one or two campaigns a year. So your opportunity to actually deeply reach different subcultures is very limited. But our engine is turning out a high volume of content on purpose because we're speaking to lots of different audiences and touching them meaningfully and deeply in a lot of different ways. So how are you listening to the audience? Like when you say they're contributing, like in what ways are they contributing? And how do you pull that? Sure. So we have what we call zero distance philosophy. And it's more than a philosophy. It's a mindset that's ingrained in our organization. And zero distance is two pathways. The first pathway is zero distance between insight and action. What we learn and what we do has to have zero distance between it. So if we hear about something last night, it's going to be in our social feeds tomorrow morning. And then it's zero distance between us and our community. But when I say us, I don't mean just the social media manager or the community manager. I mean the C suite. I'm on TikTok Lives. My CFO is on Twitch. My CEO, I take them on TikTok Lives all the time. So the community can speak directly to him about what they want to see about the brand. And they have a personally vested interest in one another. So if I run that water through the pipes for you to make it real for a second, we've been on Twitch for over five years where among the top 1% of brands on the platform. It's like us and Red Bull. And we constantly talk to them about what do you want to hear from us? What do you want to learn? What do you want to know? The two things that pop to the top are going to surprise you. Number one, career advice. Number two, financial advice. So this tells you about a reshaping of the relationship between them and the brand. This is not just product level. You guys have given me that. You've given me the makeup tutorials. You've shown me how to do it. You give me amazing product. This transcends that into Elf as my bestie, who's going to help me through my life. So I went on with my boss. We gave career advice and talked about our journeys and imparted the wisdom that we had from our ladder of experiences. And then I brought on our CFO 111,000 people showed up to hear her give financial advice. 111,000. That is a massive signal. So when you ask, how are we engaging directly with our community? That's exactly how we're engaging directly with our community. We're finding out what are their unique needs, wants and desires. And then we're meeting them where they are. Just from hearing you speak, it seems like Elf at so many levels is continually relevant because you are present. In the conversation that's happening in the world, and even just present, to be on Twitch is the most present form of media to be live. But I would imagine that also for a lot of companies listening, it feels risky even for creators. A lot of creators are like, I'm not going live. I'm not doing that. What rules do you have in place to make sure that across the entire organization, everything you communicate with, whether it's Twitch or on Instagram, that it's OK to be timely, to be relevant. How do you make sure that it's not so risky? We have a very well-codified ethos, and it is literally your temperature check for everything we do. So when you set out to say, we're going to be bold disruptors with a kind part, that's the people you hire, people who are breakthrough, people who are disruptive, people who have a disdain for the status quo, people who want to go left when everybody else is going right, but doing it in a heartful way. Everything we do is heartful. So even take the Twitch idea. Why are we even on Twitch? No beauty brand was on Twitch. There was no playbook for that for a beauty brand. We broke through. The reason was because we knew that 77% of women were reporting being bullied on the platform. And they were changing their names to aliases because they could play just as good as the boys. They could even beat the boys. But they were being bullied to a position that reduced their own self-worth and security, so then they couldn't play as well. So they would change their names and go in under aliases. And we said, "Elf that," and made a channel called "Elf You," which was a safe space for people to come and game and talk about these things. And we were there for them in a way that nobody else was. And that was really important. And through those conversations, you find out where are the rough spots. Very often times you're going to get the negativity. You're going to get the haters coming right in, right? So you need moderators and you need to make sure that you protect your people. You also need to train them before they go live. This is a tough thing to do. You gentlemen are doing this. It's a tough thing to do. So we make sure that they have the training. We set them up for success. We make sure we have moderators in the comments. So if negativity or hate, which is something that we don't tolerate in our environment. That we can quickly move it to the side. Actually have side conversations with folks and say, Hey, this is not a place for that. We'd like you to be in here, but we're going to ask you to change your tone and how you show up here. And if they don't want to do that, then they're no longer permitted to be in our environment. The bullying system. I find so interesting. I think we often tell new creators. You know, look for communities that are underserved. And sometimes by that, I just mean like people who aren't being spoken. Yes. And that's where opportunity is. 100% right. So I couldn't recommend more brands doing what you're doing and looking digitally and saying, who are the communities online that are currently underserved and how can we serve them? And that is actually else entire model. We become a champion of the underdog and assemble of the overlooked. Even if you think about our foray into the Indy 500. Would you ever have said, wait, elf is going to be in motorsports? No. But look at the contextual environment. 50% of the audience. Women. Nobody's speaking to them. Then you have the only female driver in the race. In 109 years, there's only been eight female drivers. So Catherine leg emerges as the only female driver in the race. With a 50% female audience, they were like, this is just right for somebody to step in. And speak to these people. So we backed. Catherine leg. We showed up with an incredible activation. We were. Between. And I'm not making this up waste management. And oil, right. Our line was miles might be that people couldn't even get into our space. And what I found most incredible was the fathers, the brothers, the grandfathers, who actually cried in my arms and said, wait, are you responsible for this? And I said, yes, what why is that touching you so emotionally? They said because this is the first year that my entire family is so excited to be here. And you did that. Right. And feel seen. Yeah. Every member of my family. The contrast has come up quite a bit. In terms of just a principle of storytelling, right? Like you don't expect else to be at any 500. I like that. I want to talk about also when you operate like a creator. Like the way you're talking about is the way that a lot of our creator friends operate. It's just like listen, move, I have an idea. I'll post it tomorrow. That also opens up a level of risk like we talked about that is challenging. So again, one of the questions as we were walking up and down the crusade, asking about elf was just how have you managed controversy? How have you managed, you know, specifically with the Matt Rife campaign, your community pushing back or, you know, giving feedback to you in that way. What's the appetite for that at the company? And are there like lessons moving forward? Or is it, hey, we're going to do a lot. Some's going to hit with the community. Some's not. What's the lesson from that? Yeah, I think there's there's a lot of lessons. You just hit on some some really great ones. One of the things if you go back again to being a bold disruptor with a kind heart. Bold disruption. Compels you to do things differently and breakthrough. By definition, when you disrupt the status quo, it is going to ruffle feathers. Yeah. So, and it also means your fearless and heart full. The fearlessness is key. So when things go wrong, the most important thing is to not let fear in the system. Nothing good happens when fear is in the driver's seat. So what you need to be thinking about is have I created a brand that is essentially bullet proof in its value system and its belief system. We've been here for 22 years. A single fall down moment is not going to redefine 22 years of showing up for your community of hearing them of seeing them of being a part of their world. So you have to have an appetite for some things are going to go wrong. And we're going to make mistakes and we're going to miss step because we're human. And what matters is how we relate to our community and deeply meaningful ways and make sure that they know that we're all in this thing together and sometimes we fall down. And there's actually a humanity to it. For sure. That people appreciate like, okay, Elf, this one didn't land so well. But I love you even here with me for years and that matters more to me than anything. That happens in friendships and family. Like I think it is it is ruthlessly human to be. Up and down. Yeah. And when you have tough moments like that and I think this is really important for folks to not get spooked. It's like anything. You fall down before you learn how to walk a million times. But if the first time you fell and scraped your knees and oh my god, I'm not going to walk because it's too scary, then you're never going to run a race. So what's really important is that our teams inside understand that they have license to fall down. Failure is where you learn. It's your greatest teacher. And if you don't have those hard moments, you don't learn the important lessons. My last question to you. One lesson from Haley Bieber and Road. Yeah. Obviously you guys acquired the company. Yeah. What have you learned from that brand? Because for me, again, I'm not a purchaser of your products. But that brand was in my face and just so present in my life. It's still it. What have you learned from from Haley. Sure. Quite a few things. So actually just to put some numbers on this, because I know you like numbers. And I think this is wild when you think about it out of the 1800 cosmetics and skincare brands track by Nielsen 1800. That's a massive pool. Okay. Only 1414 out of 1800, which if you do quick math is 0.1%. Pass 200 million dollars and sales only 14. So what that tells you is lots of brands can enter into the category low barrier. Aventory. It is nearly impossible to scale. So only 14 brands have scaled above 200. She did that in three years. So what it told us is this brand is truly breakthrough. Right. You are breathing rare air. And it was 212 million in revenue when when we came in and we made the purchase. So when you're in that situation, obviously you have a lot of suitors. Right. So lesson number one is find the breakthrough. Lesson number two is who's going to be the suitor of choice. And that comes down to humanity. Who's the kindred spirit that I want to wake up every day and feel comfortable and confident that my brand is in the right home. And that decision was made over dinner. It was made over dinner. Of course she had to see the company and all the important information to get to the dinner. So all of that stuff was super important. But the dinner was the deciding factor. Sitting around a table, breaking bread, finishing each other sentences, understanding who we are at our core, seeing a mirror image of it. Of one another and the things that we care about and what we want for the brand. Was absolutely critical. And then lesson three is let the brand be what the brand needs to be. We don't ever tell Hailey who to be how to be what to be what the brand. We say to Hailey, how can we help? What do you not have that you need? What kind of fuel can we put in the tank to help your vision be realized to its fullest extent? Wow, that's great. I'm sold by the way. I'm sold. Whatever you need for me, you need my hair. I'm in. I'm sold for you. I'm the part of this. Well, if I leave you with one last thing, gentlemen, especially because we are here in can on hot days full sunshine. One piece of advice for everybody all the time. I'm going to do a little bit of that. product. Right. Right. And I do think that gets more difficult with creators, especially when you integrate with creators, because our product is the connection to the audience. Right. It's the story that we're telling. So inherently, it's a little bit more difficult to have the product that they're trying to sell take over our entire story. So I think there's there's ways that we'll see that work better. I think the marketer is an example of that of like, can we create a different place to talk about the product? Right. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for being with us for another day of the Daily Brief from the LinkedIn lounge. We'll be back here tomorrow for our last episode. The final day. The final day here at Can Lions of the Daily Brief. If you have questions, comments, takes, leave them here on LinkedIn. We're applied to them tomorrow. On our last episode of the Daily Brief, we'll see you then.