Can Wemby’s Spurs Shake Off a True Gut Punch? Plus: Adam Friedland on NYC Coming Alive, Trump at MSG, and the World Cup.

This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by PayPal. You know a clutch move and you see one, a no-look pass, a buzzer-beater, a big steal. Well, imagine if your wallet could pull off moves like that. That, my friends, is PayPal. Right now you can find offers from hundreds of brands like Sony, All Birds, and Viatar, and save offers before you check out Earn Unlimited Rewards. Plus you can add those rewards on top of credit card points. Now that is clutch. Download the PayPal app today, save those offers, start scoring rewards, terms and exclusions apply, see PayPal.com/rewardsterms, credit card points subject to issuers, terms, and conditions. Alright, we're coming to you live on Netflix between Game 2 and Game 3 of the NBA Finals. Adam Friedland coming up in a little bit first time. He's ever been on the BS podcast, I'm excited to talk to him. I have a bunch of random reactions coming off Game 2 heading into the rest of this series, and because I'm an experienced professional, who's had a podcast for over 20 years, I feel like I can do this on the fly. I wrote down a bunch of stuff. First of all, most incredible in the next playoff when Game 2, since LJ's four point play. Brunson goes seven for 25 for 20 points, and they still win. They don't get a single call for 90 minutes, other than a challenge that they challenged and won the challenge to get the OG 3, they still win. They blow a 14 point lead in the last six minutes of Game 2, they still win. They have towns absolutely destroying Wembee in the first half of the game to the point that at halftime, Shaq and Kenny had to do like a long me a culpa. I was right there with him, you know, to cement his sudden arrival is one of the 12 most important guys in the league. We will talk about that a little bit later. Yeah, Bridges leaving his own body and officially making everybody who's ever criticized what they gave up in that net trade. Myself included in the last year just because they gave up all the assets they would have needed to get Yannis. But who needs Yannis now? Your two wins away from the title. So you had this incredible Bridges game, and then you had Wembee closing with a really horrific three-point air ball that got lost in what happened next, a horrible two-for-one fallaway 22-footer. The Spurs did two things in the last 40 seconds of this game that I hate. One is we got to get a two-for-one and you know, getting a terrible shot. I'd rather just get one awesome shot. And then the foul to give, I just have always hated and they did the foul to give, which of course, Wembee fouls Bronson with 10 seconds left. You have no foul to give and suddenly he's shooting free throws. You have an all-time iconic people screaming out loud as it's happening bad turnover with Wembee, which we'll get to in a second. You've already heard people talk about it for two days. I have some additional thoughts. And then you have a wide open 18-foot miss from a 22-year-old guy that was actually a really good shot. The question is whether that's the right play and the right moment for somebody like that who's been kind of skidding backwards in the last two minutes of the game. But the castle play throwing the ball off his back. I think was the closest we've seen in the NBA to the Chris Weber timeout play in college against North Carolina for a bunch of reasons. One, the coach is standing next to Wembee and he's doing this. He's telling him to go to push it because he doesn't want to call a timeout to set up a play. I don't know why he was so excited to have his seven-foot-seven center dribbling the ball up with 10 seconds left at a must-win game. I probably would have rethought that there's a great angle of Wembee from the other side and he's got both of his point guards to his right. Doesn't even look at him. Looks forward. Castle, I'm torn on this because I think Castle thinks Wembee is going to take the ball down, which he's done in the past. So he's starting to put his head down and run. But I also feel like if you're a real point guard, you want the ball, you're going to come to the ball. You're ready for the ball. And Castle's, you know, he's a guard. He's not a real point guard. So that's Fox or Harper. They're turning around. They're trying to get the ball from Wembee because they want the car keys in that moment. And it was just an absolute cluster of fuck. And I kind of couldn't believe it as it was happening. It was, I think, one of the all-timeers for an "Oh no!" And everybody had that reaction. There were great reactions that people captured all over the place. But when I think about, you throw that plan and then how the game ended and just blowing up an incredible comeback, the most damaging, non-clinching, non-injury finals of the last 50 years. So we're removing all the game sevens. We're removing stuff like Haliburton last year against OKC because that's probably number one, like losing your best guy in a game seven. I went to the JR Smith game in 2018, which was another "Oh no!" Where they get the rebound and just, OK, you couldn't even believe it as it was happening. The Ray Allen shot game six, 2013 against Miami Avisavs at that game too. The crazy Celtics game four come back in 2008. The totality of coming back from 24 and then feeling like they completely broke the lakers at the end. Wade Salvatore game five, Miami Dallas 2006. Now we blended game three and game five together in our heads and just thought Miami got all the calls for both of those games and they did get a lot of calls in game three. Game three was a much better game and also had, I think, dirt missed a big free throw at one point, but the heat climbed back. A lot of people are involved. It was just more of a traditional awesome comeback. Game five was pretty awful in the moment and culminated in Miami winning and Cuban doing the thing where he just stared at David Stern from the court. He was so angry. I wrote a very upset call about after that game, that was pretty egregious and you just felt like you felt like that was done after that game. The Nick Anderson game, which a lot of people brought up in 1995 is another one, the four miss free throws. I see the comparisons with the 95 magic and this spurs team would happen, but you can't really compare those two games for this reason. The magic had the game. It was over and he missed four straight free throws and three and four were like, you're watching somebody's career flash before their eyes. When he missed it, then it goes in a OT, I think, and then they ended up losing. But that was much more of a, we had it, oh my God, I can't believe we blew this game. Whereas the spurs game, they clawed back. They almost won. They had to make a couple play stops. It was a back and forth game, and even though it was devastating, trust me, it was not like the Nick Anderson game. Isaiah's brand ankle in 1988 where the pistons are up 32, they're better than the Lakers that year. Isaiah gets hurt. Still as a 25 in the third quarter and then they end up blowing it late. Magic Junior Skyhook. I was at this game, 1987 game four. Celts are up six with two minutes left and it just becomes an operatic collapse culminating in the Junior Skyhook and then bird missing, which we captured in the Celtic City documentary, bird missing, the three-pointer to win it by about 1/100th of an inch. That was the most devastated I've been after a game. Then Henderson's steal in game two of the 1984 finals, the Lakers are going to finish off the Celtics and probably sweep or win in five and then Worthy throws at Henderson, goes into overtime. So that, from the last 50 years, those are the worst ones. I really do think that game two with the spurs is on that list because having your best guy and the guy who's supposed to be the next guy, like LeBron in 2007 was 22 and he made the finals, they just got their ass kicked. Nobody remembers a single thing about that finals. There wasn't anything you could really hang on LeBron and be like, "Oh, that play." Nobody is just about the best player ever to have like a really dopey play like that happen to him. And we'll see how he responds over the next couple games, but that was about as bad as it gets for a great player. And I think if I'm doing Blame Pie, Castle 20% for just turning around and running forward, I'm just trying to get the ball from my center. That's Johnson at least 50% for not calling a timeout. And then Wembee, who I just think brain farted and kind of panicked when he should have been like, "Where's Harper and where's Fox?" Those are the two guys that need to get the ball to. So I put him at like 30 to 35%. That's probably too much Blame Pie, that might have been 105% of Blame Pie, whatever. Here's another thing that came out of this game that I was stunned by even that night as I was thinking about it. The Spurs have five of the worst playoff losses. And I think their five is worse than anyone else's five. They lost the Rayow and Shaq game, which is the worst loss anyone's had in the history of the NBA finals. The Derek Fisher 0.4 shot in 2004 where. The spurs were just better than the Lakers that year and that's still a pretty stupid series. And Fisher just getting a jump shot off and four tenths of a second. I don't even know if that's legal by the rules we have now, but that was devastating, especially because Timmy had made a big shot right before that to give them the lead. That's two Maynu Falling Dirk, up three in the last like 20 seconds game seven 2006. We love Maynu and Maynu is a great player and it was just he was trying to challenge the play. I actually don't think he did the wrong thing, but he fouls Dirk. Dirk gets the three point play goes into overtime, Dallas wins. The Wembee Castle Pass has to be up there. And then that famous Rod Strickland 1990 play, I was in college for that one. Although I think that was probably out of classes by that point, but that was an all-time player throws it over his head backwards and ends up Portland ends up, not only did he turn the ball over by throwing it over his head with like 30 seconds to nobody. Portland gets a fast break, which he then hard fouls the guy in the fast break. And I think it ends up being two free throws in the ball. So those five plus you got to go with the spurs in 1979 blew up three one lead to the bullets. And in game seven Bobby Dandridge kills them with 10 seconds left. Now that wasn't like a screw up, but it was a really horrible like collapse. We thought George Gerber was going to be in the finals. And then Dandridge matches them. I think Gerber and I had 42. Dandridge had like 35, 37. And he made the big shot with 10 seconds left. I think I put some thought into this. That's the worst five losses if you're going to top five worst losses by franchise. Nobody can touch that. Ray Allen, Fisher, Manu Fowler, Dirk, the Wembee Castle Pass and Rod Strickland. I needed either one or two words to explain each of those moments and you knew what I was talking about. So that parts nuts. Another one, a next final sweep, which I think was 16 to one on Fandall before the finals. I think would be one of the two craziest outcomes in the history of the finals. If you're just talking, I'm not talking about upsets, craziest team that won. I'm just talking about outcome, a next sweep. The only thing you can compare to that is 95, the rockets sweeping Orlando, which I can't remember. I bet on Houston and that's one of my favorite bets I ever made betting on Houston. That series that did not have the sweep, I don't think, but that pistons in five over the Lakers in 2004. I think if you thought that pistons were going to win that one, you wouldn't have thought it was going to be that decisive. And then I think the 91 bulls beating the Lakers in five would be another one because that was a classic. It was a little like the series actually is the young team ready. The old team with no half veterans, who do you have? I picked the Lakers, that series, I bet on the Lakers, that series in the bulls one in five. But I would think this is one of the two most shocking outcomes along with the Houston Orlando sweep. The other thing is if they win the title, I think this becomes our premier MBA example of experience over youth because it used to be the 95 rockets over the magic. I think it would now flip to this because that 95 magic team did have it at Bryan Shaw, at Horace Grant. It wasn't like this. It was this completely young team. I think the spurs feel younger to me than that team. A writer named Nupes Christensen, a mailbag writer, said, "I had a thought about Nick Spurs. I present the YMCA test. Imagine if it were the championship game for the best league at your local YMCA. TMA has five various talented players ages 21, 22, 24, 25 and 28. They're playing team B, which might be slightly less talented, but still talented in their players are 28, 29, 29, 31 and 30. Are you taking the more talented but younger TMA or the veteran team B, the YMCA test? I kind of like this. There's been some other YMCA battles. I think a really good one was the 2011 Thunder against the 2011 Mavericks. It was one of my favorite ones for these. But then you'll have the next year where the 2012 Thunder, we thought that was another YMCA test series and they beat the spurs, so it doesn't always work, but I did enjoy this. So, what do the spurs have to do to flip a series down to games? So you can either be down to 0 or 3-1 in a series. I went back and I looked at all the times we've been in this situation in the finals. And what you learn is you need some sort of dramatic karma-changing, momentum-changing something. And you don't know what it is. It could be as simple as the president decided to go to game three. I'm sorry, too soon. 2021 Sons, they won the first two at home and then blew the series to the bucks, right? Well, what happened in that series? Post-COVID, a little weird, we're sitting in the stands with some people who were a mass or the people. It was just a weird vibe for that whole thing. Game five had one of the craziest sequences. That game's in Phoenix. The series is tied at two after Milwaukee won their two at home. And then you have that one where Drew Holiday comes fine in, steals the ball from Booker. They get the fast break the other way and the awesome, crazy, all-time athletic ally of Tionis. And it was one of those sequences, like holy shit, walk is good in the finals now. So that's one. But 2016 Caps was a bigger one. That was the Dremont suspension after game four. And I've talked about this before, but the Caps lose game four at home to Golden State. It's one of the best games of the 2010s. The wears are better than them. They finish them. And then at the end of the game, LeBron goes Dremont into the technical, and that flips that one. 2006 Heat, you have that game three come back. I mentioned earlier, where they're down 13 with six minutes left. The Heat score are 22 points in the last six minutes and they get dirt to miss the one and two free throws that in the last 10 seconds that gets them to win it. That flips a little. They win game four and then game five has been a solvator game. And then the 1970s, 1977 Blazers is the other one. They're down two out of Philly. And at the end of that game, there's a huge fight with Daryl Dawkins and Morris Lucas. And Dawkins is so mad after the game that he like destroys the locker room. He feels like the sixers didn't help him. And it kind of fucked the team up. So I would say that counts for some sort of momentum shift. There's one time out of all of us, so I have the 2021 bucks, 16 Caps, O6 Heat, 77 Blazers, which is your best hope for the Spurs because almost 50 years later, they're very similar to that 77 Blazers team, young core, Wembe is Bill Walton, Falldown, O2 in the finals, everybody thinks the series is over. The 93 sons go down O2 to the Chicago Bulls. They have a crazy game three that's like one of the lost great NBA games, triple overtime, triple overtime game three and the sons win. They beat Michael Jordan in Chicago, right? It feels like they've flipped the momentum back. What happens? The Bulls have Michael Jordan. And he scores 55 in game four and basically just says, no way, you're not coming back. So that's the one time when the momentum shift happened. And then the team that was up to O, that I could think of stayed there off. So how do you flip a series down to games? You need something crazy to happen in game three. I don't think it can just be a win. I think it has to be there. The next collapse, the vibes are weird. Wembe puts up a 50/30 something crazy has to happen Monday night for the series to flip. It can't just be, oh, the spurs played better than they won. It's got to be like a tangible flip because no team has ever lost the first two at home and then won the series. So you would need something really dramatic. The goodness for them is they do have a really great player, even if he has them 100% played like it in the finals so far. Which brings me to Wembe. So this is something I remember talking about two years ago with Anthony Edwards after game three of the Dallas series, which was really bad for both him and Towns. And on the Sunday night pod was talking about how there are levels of this with the playoffs and you don't know it until you're in it. And it's just really hard for guys 20, 21, 22, 23. Because everything gets harder as you're seeing the same team, you know, maybe seven times in two weeks, there's levels to it. There's ways you get pushed mentally and physically that you've just never dealt with before. And sometimes you can see young players no matter how great they are. You can feel it start to break their brain. And it happened a little with Edwards. He did rally back in that Dallas series and his last two games were pretty good. Brian in the 2007 finals, he was 22, he shot 36% had almost six turnovers of game. Tatum at age 23 in the 22 finals against Golden State is a good example. He just really unraveled and it was fatigue and how the Warriors were defending him. He shot 37%, but you could feel it in the last few games. that you just could feel him losing, losing control of all the stuff that he was so good at. Shack in the 95 finals, just getting killed by Hookim. KD is a good one. He's age 22 in that Dallas series I mentioned, both him and Westbrook. She just felt really young in that series. KD only shot 42% in that series, but Dirk really took it to him. An underrated one was Derek Rose in the 2011 Miami series when it was like, is it too early for Derek Rose? That Miami team was pretty limited. I mean, they basically had the three guys in Haslam. Rose shot 35% just couldn't put it together in that series. The one example of somebody pretty young that I thought acquitted themselves well, and actually didn't feel at all like they were young, was Luca and that Golden State series in 2022. He's pretty good in that series. Go back to the look of the stats. He was not the reason they lost. And his stats in general, Luca has never really been spooked by the finals. The Celtics probably did the best job against him in 24, but are not by a playoff series, not the finals. But Luca's feeling example, the point is, when you're a young player and you're great, there's still levels to this. And it's still like solving the video game. And I think you could really feel that Webby. Webby was so bad in the first half. Tells just took it to him and he did respond in the second half. So if I'm the spurs, I'm going to get to that one second. Dan Climco, a listener wrote in, where does this Webby game two collapse rank for you on the tragic Johnson, C-web timeout, Freddie Brown's past to James Worthy and 82, Bird steals the ball from Isaiah, et cetera, a scale. We don't know yet because we don't know how the finals is going to turn out. This is a sweep. I do think that play gets mentioned, big picture. I do think Webby Castle, I just think you'll know instantly what it was. It will take you right to that moment and it'll just be one of the weirder brainfire plays that we've ever had. There was a really good slow mo from behind the hoop where Castle's turning as when he's throwing it. When you slow it down, you're like, "Why is he throwing at Castle's already turned?" But in real time, he's dribbling, there's 10 seconds, there's a bunch of stuff going his head and he's like, "I should give that to Castle and he's throwing it to him, but Castle's already turned around." It's just the kind of play that would never happen if he was 27, 28, 29. He's been in the league for a few years. He would've looked for his point cards. This goes back to the whole youth versus experience thing. This was why we were wondering whether they were the 90 balls and the 91 balls all season. This is my hesitation with them for a long time and I finally bought in on them the last couple of rounds of you just can't quantify it until you're there. And that played to me as the perfect example of, you just don't know until you're at a moment like that. When you're on a stage like that with that many people watching, when you've had a crappy first half, when you're trying to climb back, when you're tired, when you feel like you have to do everything and you just kind of panic. Maggi Johnson's one of the seven best parts of all time. You go back to the 84 finals, he's terrible. Like his worst play in that whole finals was the end of game two. He dribbles out the clock versus given the ball to Karim. They didn't even get a shot off on the last play regulation. He just like brain farted and this is kind of stuff to happen. All right. So if you're the spurs, what's your roadmap for coming back? I think you have to look at it this way. You didn't get your ass kicked. You're used to the speed of the finals now. Like you understand what it takes. You really found something in the last six minutes of game two. You've had big leads in both games. You double digit leads, I think in both games. You led game one with two minutes left. You came back from 14, you led game two with 57 seconds left. So this wasn't like, like I was there for spurs heat in 2014 because I was on the ESPN show. And I felt like that series is over after game three. Like it was like this spurs are just better. Like this is a wrap. This is, my name is not coming back from this. So you feel one of the things you look at when you're looking at a matchup deciding whether a series is over yet is, is the team just laying it on the other team, right? Are there 20 point leads? Is it what are the, this has been a pretty even back and forth series. The spurs lost 250, 50 games, right? Pretty small sample size. So you would talk yourself into that. You would talk yourself into you completely throw away game two. It was one of the more ridiculous losses in recent final history. Your Brunson defense has worked. He's 19 for 56. He's taken 56 shots for 51 points. So now you could say all the stuff you're doing to stop Brunson has now led to people like bridges getting hot. Towns has been borderline dominant. But still that's, if you had said after two games, 56 for 51, I'm feeling pretty good about that. I'm feeling pretty good about maybe a little less castle going forward. I love castle. He's probably one of my 10 favorite players in the league. The fear with him is always that there was this little bit of a Westbrook side with him. It's a rational confidence side that no matter what the mama was, he, he has so much confidence in himself. He's going to kind of meander in the situations you shouldn't be in. And you could really feel that and gain too. I just think Harper has been their second best guy. And is the guy I probably trust the most other than Wembee. And it's where his castle is a great player, but I think they need his defense and his intangible stuff way more than the ball handling. Like I wonder, well, you figure they're going to make some adjustments. Would they put him on towns and game three a little bit? What are they going to do to try to disrupt towns? Castle has been the guy disrupting Brunson, but do they try to flip it around and move him around and just try to unleash him as, as this like intangibles force versus somebody that's, you know, seems like he has the ball a little bit more than he should and Harper doesn't have the ball enough. So when I think of the moves, less castle use a lower castle usage rate would be my first one. I would use Carter Brian as the backup center against towns. I like Cornette, but we've just seen too much of the playoffs. Cornette comes in and you immediately feel like the Spurs are going to go on a two to ten, the opposite of a run. I would use Brian against towns. I love Bryant. I actually don't think they're using him enough to this day. I know he's 19. I know he's a baby. And I mean, a baby like literally he's like a young, a young, young NBA players two years away from being able to legally drink. I think they need his physicality because if you're talking about the one thing this Spurs team has been missing all season, it's been that prototypical physical for that you could put next to Wembee, that could guard like the towns, Julius Reynolds, those type of guys. It's really Carter Bryant. And if I were them, I would lean on him more and I would lean less on Cornette. And then the biggest thing is Harper has to be on the floor even more and they have to use Harper crunch time. I think he only played four minutes in a fourth quarter game one. Game two played more. He ended up 32 minutes, but he's the least afraid guy they have on this team. I don't know why, but he just is. The guy is like born for this. It I really am careful to bring this up. And I think I've even said this before, but the 2000 Kobe came for Indiana, which was like really the beginning of the legend of Kobe. Shack fouled out and I was living in Boston back then and like so many people, my age and younger like really, really thought Kobe had a chance to be the next Jordan or close. And when Shack fouled out, I think everybody had the same thought like, huh, what do we have here with Kobe? It's time. Let's see it. And I think the thing everybody thought in the moment was this guy, whatever happens, this guy's not going to be scared. Harper is not scared. He's the opposite of scared. I actually feel like he's the most aggro ready for this of anyone on their team. It doesn't make sense, he's 20 years old. We've talked about iPods on the past about young point guards. This doesn't make sense. It just doesn't. But it's the reality of the situation. This guy is not scared. He needs to play more and he probably needs to have the ball. Like you think about some of the terrible shots they had in the last three minutes of the game, which always like these follow away 22 footers, these contested threes, like these shots in traffic. I like all the decisions that situation Harper isn't with the ball. I just feel the best about it. I don't understand why they don't want to pick a role with him in Wimbee. I just, I just would have the ball in his hands way more than than they do. And maybe that would be the flip. A couple other things for them. You already know you can win on the road in the areas situations possible. They won a game one and a game seven, okay, see. I know this next game is going to be a madhouse tomorrow and came forward. It's the crowd's going to be incredible and I honestly can't wait. Okay, see this crowd is really loud. It's not really going to be a louder crowd than O.K.C., like if O.K.C., if you could criticize their crowd or anything, it's like a constant loud noise that you're, you kind of head, your head hurts after two hours of it, but it's not going to be louder than that crowd. And they went in there and they won. So I don't think they're going to be scared unless this game too lost was just the most damaging thing ever. Trump's going to screw up the game three. And I don't mean it from being there. I'm not talking about politics. It's going to take two hours to get in there. there. The game will probably start 15 minutes later than it should, which means like these games are already starting around like 840, 841, East Coast time. The game will probably start closer to nine. And if you remember like in the 22 finals, they were starting the East Coast games super late. And I went to game three and I went to game six. I didn't go to game four. I thought it I thought it affected the crowd. The game would start at like 915. The crowds out. They've had dinner and they've had drinks. Like they've kind of peak around that 730 to 10 range. And by the time you get into the second half, it's late. It's like past 11 o'clock. You feel like you've had all this energy and it's a weird dynamic. I just think I think this is if I'm the spurs, this is the kind of kind of crowd slash time situation you're going to want where it's just going to feel disjointed. And you want disjointed when you're on the road. And then the last thing is Wembee. Wembee is a great player. Wembee in the second half of game two at 22 points. I thought he was all over the place, defensively covering the rim. He's taken some shit because when he's 25 feet out from the basket, guys have gone by him. Guess what? He's a center named he's anyone over seven feet that that wouldn't happen to. I just think like if you're criticizing Wembee's defense on this, you're nuts. But he hasn't been the best part in the series. And I'm not even sure he's been the second best part of the series. So what is, is he going to dig deep? Is this going to be like that game too is the before and after of that heart and him that taught him how to win? Or is he just going to go sideways like Shaq did in 95? We will see if you're the next. You got no calls in game two. You still one on the road. You got no calls. And I actually, I didn't do a fan deal pick for game two. I did bet on the spurs money line with an adjusted over because I thought the officiating was going to be what it was in that game. And it was what it was. We all saw it. They even rescinded the Mitchell Robinson technical after the fact, which was in idiotic ridiculous tech to what the time, the towns game, the third and fourth thousand towns were atrocious. So you still win that game and you could argue if the officiating was a little more balanced, maybe you win that game by 10. If you're the next, you have to assume Brunson's shots are going to start falling that he's just even down the stretch. They miss some wide open three is Brunson miss some shots he just normally makes. So you have to assume he'll be better. You have to assume the crowd's going to be incredible. And that's almost definitely near benefit. We'll see. We'll see what the. How disjointed it is. And you're going to be ready for more Harper in this game. You know, that's like the, the one thing that spurs can do is unleash Harper a little more. So you got to be ready and got a plan for that. Okay. Last thing, Carl Anthony Towns, been thinking about this a lot because I don't really remember anything totally like this happening before in an NBA playoffs where somebody that was a really good, pretty flawed star, who I think made the last three worst contracts draft that I did with House and Was. But we all thought he was good. Anytime we did a ringer 100, he was always in the top 30 or 35. He's made two second team on bays or one second team on bay and two thirds. He's average 23 and 11 for his career for the regular season. 52, 40 and 84 shooting percentages. If you just look at the guys in the history of the league who played at least 700 games and average 22 and 11, right? Not crazy, 22 and 11, 700 plus games. Yokeage will Elgin Barkley, Kareem, Bob Pettit, and Carl Anthony Towns. So this is somebody that the stats always favored somebody that I think after his career, we probably like in the basketball reference, looking back era, the stats would have been more favorable to him. And yet was somebody none of us trusted. And that's just the way it is. But when you think about the next make this trade two years ago, and they're basically they don't have a center because they lose heart and steam. Heart and steam getting poisoned pilled basically by Oklahoma City and the next losing heart and steam leads to the town straight. They're heading toward this season and they decide we have no chance unless we have some sort of center. Towns is contract is scary. We could give up random defense. I don't get them. And they basically just bet on the pedigree. They bet on a guy that Wesley on head known since he was 15 years old when they were when West was trying to recruit him. I could tuck it. They'd known him forever, right? They're betting on the pedigree. Now, sometimes this doesn't work. Didn't work with Darko. Remember, I think Orlando traded for Darko. Didn't work. The beat did the beat ever have pedigree. He was taking second. Michael Beasley is a good one. Michael Beasley always wanted the best two or three high school players in his class all the way up. Put up, I think 25 and 10 in college was a little out there to say the least personality wise, but there was pedigree there and a bunch of teams took chances on him. Never happened. And then Ben Simmons was a good one. Oh, he's fine. It's just the Philly thing didn't work out. You just got to change a scenery. Well, that didn't work. DeAndre and sort of Portland and the Lakers. So this doesn't always work. And there's a million more examples than that. But there's, this is something GM's think about. If somebody was a top five pick, a top three pick, the first pick in the draft, maybe they were in the wrong situation. Maybe you could flip them in another situation. It works way better in baseball. It's worked in football sometimes, where especially with quarterbacks where you they flip teams and things can change. In basketball, Wiggins was a great example of this in Golden State. Wiggins, we'd all kind of given up on as a meaningful priority and a bad contract, goes to Golden State. He's their second best guy in the 2022 finals team. Aaron Gordon's sort of like this. He was the fifth pick in the draft. We all love Aaron Gordon, but just never never really had it in Orlando, right? Ghost of Denver becomes this crucial guy in their 2013. Rashid was a good one. Rashid been in some big moments and had probably more success than towns, but was too much of a hothead set the technicals record. And by the time he lands in Detroit, the question was wasn't for me because I like to trade, but said too risky. Do you want to be in business with Rashid Wallace while they end up beating the Lakers that year? Chauncey Billips is a great one for this. Chauncey Billips, I was in Boston going to all those games because my dad never wanted to go patinoes first year. We traded him after 50 games in a kind of Anderson trade. And I remember kind of liking the trade when it happened. I didn't know what what Chauncey was. I couldn't tell if he was a point guard or a shooting guard or what he was and he could go to the basket. He was a really good athlete, but I learned a valuable lesson from that, which is don't give up on young guards and especially young point guards because he bounced around. He went to Toronto, he went to Denver, with the Minnesota, and then finally ends up in Detroit. Detroit bets on the pedigree. And guess what? He becomes one of the better playout players we had in the 2000s. Robert Parrish is a good one for this. He was I think the six pick in the draft. Golden State kind of cooled off on him. And when Red R back wanted McCale, ends up trading back from one to three and getting Robert Parrish. So those are probably Wiggins, Gordon, Rashid, Billups, Parrish or five really good examples of this, a bet on the pedigree. And it makes you wonder when you're watching what's happening with towns. Two lessons. One, do you look at a couple guys we have in the league now a little more closely? Like I don't think Evan Moby counts for this because Evan Moby is already good. I think he's bet on at least one all NBA team. Cleveland made the Eastern Conference finals like he's a max guy. And I don't I wouldn't put him in the town's camp. Chibarras Smith, Scoot Henderson, not nearly neither of them had the most success as towns has had over the course of his career. Zion higher peak than towns, but no playoff footprint at all and not as durable as towns. John Marant, there's off the field off the court stuff with John that I think I don't think towns had red flags like that. So maybe it's Zion as somebody because the thinking is when somebody hits their mid late 20s, do they mature? Do they round into something different than what we know now, right? So the case for Zion would be, well, what if he just became more mature and got an awesome shape and went to the right team and could be unleashed as this different kind of force? That's one lesson is think about the pedigree. Are there other guys like this? The other one would be don't overact to a bad series. So in 24 against Dallas, towns was awful. Like really awful. And when towns was bad, he's bad. Like towns, people, a lot of people in my life, some people that have had pods for the ringer or have left the ringer were just completely out on towns. Towns in that series was 20 and eight, but he shot 38% 24% from three. Dallas was fucking with them and all these different ways. [BLANK_AUDIO] just felt like the dumb foul stuff was never gonna end. And I remember after three, oh, I went and I actually found this text. I doubt, Minnesota is down three out of Dallas in 24. And I started texting house at halftime of game three that Towns was gonna be on the Wizards next year. And the house was really mad. It's like, stop it, that's not funny. It was like a lot of epithets from house. That's how bad it got for Towns. So when they traded for 'em, huge contract, and we were just coming off the worst series of this career, well, what happens? This playoff sees unleashed. And I don't really fully have an explanation for it, because I can't think of another example like this, of somebody that I had already decided on as a player, who then dug deep and completely surprised me in a completely different way. I got an email from Mike from Toronto. After game two, Charles Barkley said, he was criticized in Minnesota, criticized in New York. Cat is the finals MVP. I actually think he might be the fun. Now there's two more games, but I think he would be the leader for me. Barkley said, it was the best two games I've seen, a big man play, that feels a little strong. Is this the greatest change of opinion about a player we have seen? It's a really good question, because I think all of us had decided on towns. And what we had decided is good stats seems like a really nice guy, but it's pretty flawed and is gonna have dumb fouls and do dumb things at the worst possible times. And that's just who he is as a player, right? I had decided that. So I was thinking about an actual change of opinion, there's gotta be three qualities here. Has to be somebody we were really down on. Has to be somebody who's good enough to at least make it all on B18 or be in the mix and a conference finals or even a finals. And has to be somebody that either want to title or kind of came close. So that rules out Vince Carter, 'cause Vince Carter to me was the most disappointing player that 2000s, just for what the potential was, but the peak of his career was probably that losing the seven and fulfilling round two. It wasn't ever like he got close. Chris Weber is a really good one. I thought Chris Weber was gonna be the best forward of the 1990s. And the time out I think changed him in a bunch of different ways. And I don't even think that's an opinion. I think that kind of sapped him of something. And the Golden State thing got weird. He went to Washington and just was really disappointing, right? And gets traded as Sacramento for an older Mitch Richmond. And at that point, it felt like a good flyer. Sure, Chris Weber, maybe. And then he turned into one of the best five guys in the league there. But they never even made the finals. And then the one that's probably the closest to this is Dirk, post 2007. After they lose out six finals and then they lose the Golden State and you know, seven playoffs and eventually that leads to him doing the Australian trip. But I had just given up on Dirk being the best guy on a championship team. I didn't think it was possible. And then in 2011, he had one of the great resurgence slash rejuvenations in the history of the league and blows through everybody. I think he beats the Lakers. He beats OKC, maybe Nimpus or San Antonio. And then Miami and the finals. But just it was a murderer's row. And he just went through it and demolished everybody. So Dirk is still the number one thing for this. But in Dirk's case, he had won an MVP. He had made the finals. He was one of the best players of the 2000s. Townsend was never as good as Dirk. The Dirk thing, the Towns thing, Towns becoming this cerebral, awesome, never has not made dumb plays at all in the entire playoffs. Like it's like, it's almost like if you changed your meds for a little kid or something, like you had a hyperactive little kid and a little kid went on meds and just came a different kid. You're like, Hey, what's different about that kid? Towns, it's like he's having like somebody changed his med series. Even though I don't probably isn't on meds. But it's been so dramatic. I almost can't believe what I'm watching. That first half he played in game two was one of the best halves. I've seen best both in halves. I've seen a center play. And I think the guys that have time were told to read. I think Wembee was shook by it. He's like, I thought I was going to have a huge advantage of this guy. I went into the series thinking Townsend was going to be the number one reason that they were going to be in trouble for this series and it's been the opposite. So watching this Towns resurgence has been fantastic. Couple more emails and then we're going to get to Adam Friedland. Max V says, living in Matt and I can say this is the most excited. I've seen this city about a possible championship people are going fucking nuts. The odds are obviously against it. But knock on wood. If the next blow this series, not putting that out there, but he wrote this as an email. If it explode this series, would this be the biggest gut punch loss of the 21st century? All right, I thought about this. The formula would be how long was the drought? How gigantic is your fan base and how egregious was the collapse? So the 86 Red Sox is a great example of this. The Red Sox hadn't won in 66 years. Is that what it was? 68 years. 68 years. I can still do math. Red Sox had lost in 68 years. 13 strikes to win the World Series in Lost. And that was the biggest gut punch. I think of the 21st century for a sports team and a fan base years to recover. I think it was actually genuinely damaging for a whole generation of younger fans, including myself. The 94 Rangers are a good example of almost having this happen, but they didn't because you forget. They're up 3-1 in the finals against Vancouver. They come home from game five. It's almost like this next series right now. Prices are through the roof. Everyone wants to be in the building for when they win. They blow game five at home. They lose game six in Vancouver. And now there's two days off before game seven. And I knew some Rangers fans and still do. That was in all time, people freaking the fuck out, 48 hours span. And then they end up eking out game seven and winning it. So it was all fine. But I would say if the next blow this at this point, I don't know if it would have a parallel this century. Because it's unlike the Falcons Patriots where it's 23. You blow a game in an hour and a half. This would be you would have to blow this over a week and a half. And it would be a all-time historic collapse because nobody's ever won the first two on the road and then lost the finals. So James from Brooklyn wants to know if Townsman's a title would Minnesota fans be more bitter about trading like Kat or Garnett. And then he says, how long until Ante leaves for a title somewhere else, that was that was me and James. I'd be more bitter about the cat trade. Garnett wanted to leave the team. The team should have traded him even two years before they did. And he had no chance to win a title there. And you had to trade him and you had to rebuild. That was the right move. The cat thing really did seem more financial than anything and they had had success with him already. They just made the conference finals with them. I mentioned that was a tough series for him and for the team. But that, to me, was a financial trade. It was a chance to reset a year from now with new ownership and try to get Randall on a lower deal and just not have to pay in the '50s for Kat and Anthony Edwards at the same time. And I don't think a lot of teams would have made that trade. I think teams would have probably tried to suck it up with towns for another year. It was a financial trade. But it was also a trade that happened because he sucked in the downstairs. So I'd be a little more bitter about that one. Ricky wants to know with the way Kat is showing how the best antidote to Wembe is someone who could stretch him out to the three-point line and leverage their strength to get to the basket on offense. Can I introduce you to Joel Hansen bead? Hansen bead, Joel Hansen bead. He's a longtime sixer spin, by the way, this guy. He said in their matchups, as far, and bead is averaging a meager 38 and 11. He needs multiple, if not all, athletic, high level, long wing defenders. A few West teams have just that more to trade for him bead. Is a savvy team in the West looking at what Kat's doing and thinking this might be a decent idea. I laughed at this when I read this and then I'd put some thought into it and I was actually wondering if this might make sense for somebody. One of them is you go look at him beads, contract, and it's a catastrophe. But maybe a year from now, it's a possibility. Scotty and Phoenix wants to know. So everyone knows the mix haven't lost since April 23rd. Two days later, they start the win streak. It was also the same day. Port Dante, Deep Finchenzo, towards Achilles, was that like a sacrifice in the 53-year drought. Port Dante. I do think they should have him at one of these games. It's, he got the Ross deal out of everybody, right? He's like, I thought we're all doing this phone over thing. What happened? It is weird that he got hurt the same day of this. And then Kevin and Portland wants to know, if the next one I guarantee their first championship in 53 years, Dolan needs to invite Oakley back for game three at MSG. Can you imagine how the crowd would react seeing him there at San Antonio with a standard chance? This would be it. a great, great, great. This would be like a pro wrestling moment. They hug it mid court, or they bring out Oakley, almost like a wrestling entrance where they play, I guess Oakley doesn't have music, but this would be a pretty good idea. I think if the crowd had the choice between Oakley and Trump, they'd probably pick Oakley. All right, that's enough foreplay. We're going to bring in Adam Friedland and things are about to get wacky. That's next. All right, so we banked this part of the podcast early afternoon. And this is take two. This is the first time I think this has happened since COVID when we were having these audio issues. We did a whole, we did like a hundred minutes this morning. And I could have gone my entire life bill. It disappeared. It's ironic, Adam Friedland, because this was your first appearance on the pod. You were excited about it. And somehow you brought like a black cloud with you and it vaporized the technology. Why are you blaming me? I'm blaming you. That was Belle, the producer here said that was the greatest podcast. She literally said the best podcast. We're going to run it back. We're just doing it. We're doing it in a second. I was so sad. I text the boys. Well, I realized afterwards that this is what I've been preparing for my entire life. I didn't even know what just talking about ball with it. Listen, well, but here's the thing. Now that now it's gone to history, the only like seven people know the magic of the first time we did it. And now we're just going to redo it. It will be better. We'll be worse. The only ones that are going to know were us. It'll be most certainly worse. But like on this sincere note, I grew up my pod father ran out on our family as a kid. And I felt like for 90 minutes, I'd found a a real pod father. I won't tell him. I won't say his name. He's become, but his show, his podcast is called the Joe Rogan experience. But I don't want it. But he left us. And he said it was my fault. And I was growing up my biological pod father, of course. And I was like, you know, he's he's not the step pod father. He's the pod father who stepped up Bill Simmons. No, but I realized it was like, yeah, I was just I was telling you at the beginning of the last one, but it's just so it's so sick you get to just do this for your job. Yeah. So the first time we did this, which we're just going to do again, you're interrogating me and what my life's like. We'll get to that in a second. Well, I opened with a comment about how beautiful your eyes were. Oh, I appreciate that. You remember that? Yeah. That was that got us off to a strange start. It was stunning. Listen, important business first, the Adam Friedland show is joining Spotify, In July, you're relaunching your third season with us. So you're you're technically on the ringer team. But more importantly, next month on the Adam Friedland show, you're doing a special soccer podcast, a mini series called the beautiful pod. Okay. We are off to a disaster start. Okay. I screwed this up on Wednesday. Uh, we are start you said this month. Well, this month. Yeah. June. I meant this month on Wednesday. Yeah. Yes. Uh, at the Adam Friedland show, uh, we'll be, uh, we're going into pre-production on season three. When we return, we are now part of the ringer something or other. Yeah. Do you get classier ads? They do classy ads, right? I think it's a win for everybody. I've been selling boner for a 10 years. Yeah. No more. I've been selling some disgusting offshore gambling scams and yeah, you're building are over. I had the I had the mayor, mom, Donnie, on the show, and we had a we had a rectile dysfunction ad like in the like booked. So I was like, we got to just, we got to lead off with the, with the, do you have trouble getting an erection? Yes, but I'm, yeah, we're doing, uh, uh, we're going to part, what, uh, was it regar? It's a Spotify partner. The Adam Friedland show is now a Spotify partner. But beyond that, I am now, uh, we're doing the World Cup coverage for the ringer. I couldn't be more excited. And, uh, and we loaned you CR Chris Ryan. Yes, you did. Well, I mean, it was like with soccer, they loaned the players, right? They can do that for like a year. I just loaned my striker. I'm a second division team. I loaned my striker. I got relegated. We didn't get relegated, but we're loaning CR to you anyway. Well, you loan like a, like a young guy that you want to get minutes to, like a crappier team or you think a CR has the most minutes at the ringer. I think he's on 17 podcasts, but you're looking at an event. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, we can't find space on the roster for for this guy. This is like messy. This is like messy going to Miami. Yeah. This is where he's going for it to end his career on the, the beautiful pod, a taff's original mini series. Yeah. So I, you know, I mean, I genuinely, I'm so excited to talk just about sports instead of whatever the, the hell I do regularly. Actually, I really enjoy doing that. I'm for the show. It's like pretty cool, but it'll be the nice change of pace. Um, but like, uh, now that I've like yesterday, I was like writing jokes for it all day. And it's just, uh, I'm like, this is just what I should just be, this is what I wish I would do for the rest of my life. Yeah. Come to the dark side. Just waste your life talking about sports and get paid from that's great. Yeah. It's really, I, you probably don't even know what a tariff is. You probably, I don't know. Your life is incredible. Do we have a president or a prime minister here? I don't even know. I, I, I, I, I regret to inform you that things are terrible. But we have that one of the things I want to talk to you about was your New York city. Uh, you live in Brooklyn. But New York with the nicks, um, it's been a unifying thing happening in the city that all my friends are saying they've never experienced anything like this ever. Yeah. Um, they're, I, well, first off, New York's been, it's been difficult here with the mom Donnie's in institute to show real law. And then the nicks have given up. So I'm sorry. See, the first joke was funny. What did I say? Oh, yeah, this is an anti-subitism. You're like, how is New York? No, no, this is the anti-subitism. I now remember all the jokes and you can't tell them a second time. I said they, Bill was like, how is it in New York right now? I was like, well, the anti-subitism is rampant. And no, but honestly, what's happening right now is like special. I've never lived in a, uh, I've been here since 2014. And I was in DC before that. But I've never lived in a city that's just like going so hard for their, for their boys right now. Blue and orange everywhere, watch parties, people wearing homemade jerseys. Wesley Morris was talking about he's, he was delighted by this. He felt like, because I remember in Boston in 2004, they're in the ALCS and then the, and then the world series. Yeah. It felt like the entire city just mobilized into this giant Red Sox machine. And you could see it. I was like, everywhere you went, you just saw hadsters is, and it feels like New York's like that right now. Yeah, people are like out on the street. That's, that's the cool part about it. Like people are like just running outside, you like, outside of your window, you hear people screaming and stuff. Fire, people are lighting fireworks right now. It's like pretty cool. Yeah, but what do you mean, but I mean, fireworks are a good thing. Yeah, they're mostly. Oh, yeah, people are doing crimes after every yeah, crime is through. No, uh, no, yeah, people you're seeing fireworks and it's really just genuinely, I've, uh, it's really special. I mean, it's, New York should have a better basketball team. You know, they should be like a dynastic like, uh, you know, it's New York, right? And it's, uh, I guess there was those Larry Johnson years in the 90s, but like it's, it's like kind of wrong, not in the Larry Johnson years. I was saying, no, I was saying the Greg Anthony years in the 90s. Yeah, the Anthony Mason years in the 90s. The Jon Star series, right. I remember as a kid, it was just, I remember the fights. I remember the heat, uh, heat next fights. And those were, that was really cool. But, uh, yeah, but beyond that, I, you know, what was it? 78 was the last year? No, that, I mean, they had good stretches that, yeah, 73 was the last time three. Yeah, good stretches in the 80s. Like, I think the Bernard King stretch before he got hurt was great. Yeah, um, couple, couple really good bumps in the 90s, like when they battled MJ the first time, the physical next teams in the 90s. And then it just, so ever since I got to SPN, they're kind of died. Yeah, when I got there in 2001, it was like they were relevant one player that year. Yeah. Yeah, but I was in 2013. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I guess that's even later. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I guess I, they, yeah, I like, uh, uh, it's like going to the garden is special, right? Like it's, it is like a cathedral of the game, right? I wouldn't even admit that as a South thick fan. I would feel special, right? I mean, you're not necessarily rivals, even with the, it's your rivals with us. Why do you live there? I'm not going to move to Boston. But be out of that, outside of that, outside of that, it's like the stadium where the, the, the star and the other team, fair question. What, you were like, well, you have discussed for all the people. Well, when I grew up, I hated the Lakers and it, yeah, the moment I moved out, I was like, this is weird. It's nice, but it's nice. Yeah. It's really nice. The weather's pretty nice. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, but, uh, yeah, it's the, it's the stadium where the star and the other team like has his 50 piece, right? It's like the stadium where Kobe like has his like, you know, like, sit, like, uh, just takes bows. You know, like, it's like a place that brings out the best in the other teams, but it's cool. Even if they're out of playoff contention, it's the end of the year. And someone does the half court shot at halftime. Like, everyone's, and he misses it. Everyone's like, go fuck us out. You know, it's, it's got an energy about it. And like the stadium is still sold out. And it's, uh, but it's like spilled outside the streets. It's really incredible to see. Yeah. I was there that's been a long time coming too. He got to the point where you started to wonder, is this ever going to happen again for this team between the mismanagement of the bad luck, some of the dumb contracts. And it really was like, it took COVID to really shake the, shake the next item. Was it? It was. post COVID, all of a sudden things got better. But there is something about like, yeah, Cat, I mean, I've just never seen him at this level. I went to the first round against the Hawks and I didn't see it. I genuinely didn't see it. And there was something like that was missing there. And I was like, what's the philosophy of this team? And then something clicked. I mean, when's the last time they lost a month ago? More than that. Yeah, it was April 23rd. Yeah. And it's been like remarkable. Like they've had these like, like, as we were saying in the best podcast of all time, we're really on. We're hitting it. Can I ask you a question? No, I think we're very close. Every woman I've ever had sex with. How was that for you? I had a great time. I'm having a great time. No, but yeah, there is, there's something that clicks and like, you know, like, like, it's just, yeah, I don't understand. Like, Cat, I've never seen him at this level before. The stuff with the mom is like, maybe cry. It's like, I lost my mother. There's just something special. And you were saying in the last show, but like, as they seeing them collectively defend and deal with Wembee. Yeah. And like, and then seeing the level of the basketball just in these finals, it's like, I just keep saying this is such a good basketball. And it's like, it's been such a fun series. And then the guy that's about the Darth Vader that's in waiting about to take over the entire like league for, he'll probably play 30 years. We'll probably be still waiting for him to get hurt. Right. We're like, oh, yeah, at that size, he's 52. He's 52 and he's unbelievable. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, it's just never happened. It never happened to Kareem. So that would be the role model for Wembee. He wasn't bulky, too, right? No, like Kareem stayed skinnier. He did yoga and karate and all this stuff to kind of stay limber. And we never really got him out of your guy. Yeah, they're both karate guys. Well, it's, it's funny. I wrote intellectuals. I had a bunch of people in my life, because I picked the spurs to win the series. And I had a bunch of people in my life who were like, this is crazy. You didn't pick the nicks. Like, you wrote this whole basketball book and the premise was the secret of basketball. And how it's not about basketball. And it's unselfishness and teamwork and fighting off the disease of war. I'm putting your putting the team ahead of the person. And, and I had multiple fronts said this to me. Like, how do you not see that this is what's happening with the nicks? And I was just, I was in that mode of the nicks. Well, it was the nicks. And I was also in that mode of, wow, it was Cleveland. It was Philly with like breaking down and beat. It was Atlanta with three players. I just think San Antonio is a horrible matchup for you. And as it turned out, the nicks are probably a horrible matchup for San Antonio as well. Yeah, I mean, I guess Mitch has dealt with when we kind of maybe, maybe the best. Is that a failure to say? And Towns is really taking it to him. Yeah, so I think and also there's still just terrible when he's not playing. Like, it's it's remarkable what he's done at 22. And like, yeah, we were talking before about like, it's not a real sweep, right? Like, it feels serious over, but like, it does also feel like anything could happen in this series. Well, we, game three is going to be weird because Trump's going. It's going to take two and a half hours to get in there, right? And and the game will probably be delayed. The game's already starting like 840. So to probably start closer to nine. And I always found like, this happened in in 22 with the Celtics, when they, for some reason, the games were starting at like 910 pm, Easter time. And it definitely, the crowd got a little weird as it got later and later. And just didn't have the same energy as it did in the beginning. So I'm going to be interested to see. Does the crowd peak too early? Is the Trump thing like this crazy wild card that is the game like disjointed? Is the crowd disjointed? Or is it going to be like the romantic version of it is? This is, this is the end of the Shawshank Redemption for the Nick's fans. This is two games of bliss. The crowd's incredible. The spurs are scarred from what happened in game two. And it's just a sweep. And I honestly don't know. I don't even know how to pick it. It's still it's like you still you just have seen this franchise like fuck up so many times. It's like I'm an Arsenal fan. We it's been 22 years. And we'd like been in first place and then finished second for three straight years. Yeah. And this season this season was terrifying every match because of the prospect of finishing second a fourth, a fourth time after we were up nine points on the table. Like we almost fucked it for a fourth time. And I don't know how we would have been able to to manage it. And like I also like none of us believe that it could ever happen too. Like I'm sure like a lot of Nick fans are too. Yeah I mean, well that there was this moment I talked about in the first segment of the pod. The Rangers in 94 when they had a one of 54 years. And they took a three one lead heading in a game five and game five was in New York. Yeah. And everybody's like oh my god. I got to be there when they win the cup. And then they lost. Then they lost game six and people were just, it was the every Nick fan. Every New York friend I knew was the it was the most horrifying like four days. But then they ended up winning game seven. I felt like I had a nightmare scheduled. I'm like, yeah, tomorrow three. I'm going to watch a nightmare. I'm just like so scared about it. It's like and it's I have to watch. Yeah, question for you. Like what bloody talk year was like. That must be where yeah, it must have been the most incredible thing that you've ever seen in sports, right? The four days in a row against the Yankees is my highlight as a sports fan. Yeah, that series was unreal. But like, but it made more right because of the curse, right? Oh yeah, this is yeah, this is the it's the losing virginity as a sports fan of. It's the only way you can do it when you've had a drought for this long. And then all these great things happen. And it's never going to be as good as the first time. It's just not like how do you like, but you're like as a past fan. Like how did you like keep getting boners? Like you don't like what I'm saying? It has to like not. I took those EV drugs. You did on that. I took that promo code to a promo code. If you add a promo code, Tom Brady, Adam 420. No, but I'm saying like, does it feel diminishes in in its like excitement? Or you or Boston guys just like if we don't win, it's just no. The past thing was great because we went from. We were basically like if the Jets had won the Super Bowl, right? We were like black. And he was like a child. He was a backup. Yeah, and it was so improbable. It was right after 9/11. So there's a patriotic thing. So I think people are rooting with us. But by the way, it was not right after 9/11. Well, they were named the Patriots. Well, it was say, you know, they beautiful day. You too at the Super Bowl halftime show. It was like, you brought the American Super Bowl. You it was because of your name, the Patriots. They did it for 9/11. Yeah, yeah, it was part of it. Remember the you two halftime show? Where the streets have no name with all the 9/11 names is a motion. I remember the Janet Jackson halftime show for you. Well, that's when it probably turned. Then the third one, everyone got tired of us. We became Duke. And then the best thing happened and we were villains. The best was Prince in the raid in Miami. Do you remember that? Do a purple raid? Oh, yeah, you were saying. But like America turned on us, which actually was great. Because then we all we had was each other. The other Pats fans was galvanizing. Then we were like rejuvenated. It is what we were talking about with Kobe. It's like you're heaped with praise. And then yeah, that's the arc, right? Brady was like this backup, right? And it was like a romantic thing. And then like eventually we're like, fuck those guys, they win all the time. Well, there's different kinds of titles you win. Where like that one nobody ever, they were too touched down underdogs in the Super Bowl. And I think they were like 13.00 underdogs in the AFC title game. The next one's a little different because it came late. But it's not people. Once we got to the finals, I think the spurs are a favorite. But I knew a lot of people that thought the next were going to win. And I think it's not like shocking that they're winning. You know, I think I had no idea how to call it. I just didn't know because you don't know. Because you got the best guy in one team. 22. Yeah, he's 22, but he's that. I don't know what that is. He threw the game deciding passoff. It's teammates back. So well, he's 22. He's 22 and his team and they 21. He's the best. They're incredible when he's playing and they stink when he's when he's not. I mean, they stunk last year. How many wins did they have last year? Who did those first? Well, it's probably didn't play half the year. I know. Yeah, the turn around is like, uh, is it the biggest turn around? Every one of them. The set, the first bird, Celtic here, they gained like 31 wins, I think, from the year before. This might be the record. Oh, really? I asked you, um, because you've been Brooklyn. We got to stop saying that we talked about this the last time. Because nobody heard the other time. I know, but it breaks my heart. I know it's fine. It's because you already heard it. Are you saying you have to fake laughs? No, I haven't fake laugh once. I know. I'm just kidding. You live in Brooklyn. You live near Barclays. And I was asking you, yeah, with what you've seen from the next. And how this city routed around the next. If you're the net's like, what's the potential center? Newark? We're going home. Yeah, what's the Wednesday meeting like where Joe's size like, Hey, man, we have to figure out. Like the liberator more popular lesson, Barclays. The next have 99.9% of the NBA fans. What's what's our plan? We can't keep this going. I mean, he had to have known already, right? No, this is worse than he ever could have imagined, I think. The atmosphere at any home game is and they play like, they play every game is like kind of a road game for the, for those for the players on the net. It's tough. I feel bad for them. Yeah, the one. The last year and it's a, I still think about Kyrie and Durant being on the same team and how cool that was and we never got. It was a toe, right? Yeah. And it was over and that was the, that I was at the, the game won the blowout again. the honest. And that was like, there was something like happening and it was exciting. But it just since then it's kind of the toe is kind of the end, right? >> There's no question. It's the potential of those two guys being on the same team, though, at that stage in both their careers. It was like, it's such a what if for me still. >> Well, it wasn't just that they were on the same team. The Nix also wanted the two guys, and they chose Brooklyn over the Nix, which had happened repeatedly. Like, Durant didn't want to go there to Nix in 16. LeBron turned them down famously in 2010. They weren't even a choice for people. And I think that's the pranos video for them. >> Right. You saw that, right? >> Oh, yeah. But I think what's changed, regardless of whether they win the title or not, and they're big favorites now. But they're now a destination again, I think, for players, which was just not the case for 20 years. >> Exactly. It's crazy, I almost forgot that they chose the Nets over the Nix. That's how toxic that brand was. >> No, no, no. >> Yeah, that's insane. It feels like how is that possible, you know, right? Like, but yeah, it was a better situation over there. And like, yeah, it's such a what if, because Kyrie just does the impossible and makes it look easy for him. And then everything that Durant does looks easy, but it's really hard to do what he's doing. Like, they're like the opposites. Like Durant is just making everything look effortless. Kyrie's making everything look so insanely hard than he's somehow doing it. And it's like the combination of those two like offensive like savants, like on the same team. It's just, it really bums me out. I was like, I wish we got to see more of it. >> And Harden got hurt the one time he actually cared about that team. >> Your favorite player is Kobe? >> Yeah, so what? >> Oh, yeah, you're so good. There was a question. >> No, there's nobody missed it. This is the first time. >> I'm never hearing. >> You're full-throated apology for his mystery, but Mr. Kobe, no, no, no, no. >> I just really was late to the party of appreciating how good he was. >> I know, you were. But something about you is like, I've always been like, how dare he say that about Kobe? But then I'd be like, if I was Bill, I would be rocking with my boys in the same way. >> Yeah. >> There's always like this, do you think you were like the first to disclose your allegiances and media? Sorry, I asked you a question back. Sorry, I did the thing where I interview you back. >> Well, it was kind of a new thing. >> Definitely was a new thing. Because when I came up, when I was writing for ESPN, and I was writing from like the sports fan perspective, it was basically just newspaper calmness and that's it. Everybody is supposed to be very down the middle and you weren't supposed to have favorite teams. And I always felt like the people that I enjoyed reading. I always felt like we're fans of the sport or the team. And I've talked about this William Goldman book that I loved called Wait 'til Next Year, where he wrote from the perspective of the New York fan. I was like, that's kind of how I want to write my column. >> Now it's pretty calm. >> It's also bullshit. You would have to be right down the middle. If you love your team and you love your guys, you should rather just be honest with it. And so people can see where you're coming from, right? >> I think it's different if you're like Brian Winhorse and you're in locker rooms and you're talking about it in a different way. I think it would be tougher to be like, I'm also a giant Cavs fan. But you love LeBron, right? >> I don't know if he loves this guy. >> But he covered him forever. >> I asked Nick, right? I said when they had the Wempi LeBron thing, I was like, did you say to yourself, and then there was one? What do you say? >> He's like, he's a great guy. It's diplomatic. >> Yeah, but it's definitely different now. I think it's basically because there's way more media, there's way more opinions. There's all kinds of ways to become noticed and build like at least a small level of fans. So there's no one method now. In the 2000s, there really was one method. >> I think it's kind of a trailblazer kind of thing. >> I don't think that. >> Listen, I have no respect for you. You were very unfair to Kobe. No, no, but I mean, I think you kind of changed things. I don't know. We didn't know where Walter Cronkite's like allegiances. I mean, that's like you're doing more of like a, you were just a writer about sports from a perspective of a fan, I guess, right? I was reading the article in 2002. I read it when I was in high school, the 9/11 one. >> Yeah, I was like, this is good. Do you remember back to that? I'm asking you questions. I was a bullshit. I don't want to do that. But yeah, do you remember, like, do that feel like a sentimental moment for you? >> I don't, I remember not being happy with what I wrote, but feeling like I had to write something. But the bigger thing is I remember. >> Beautiful. >> I remember wondering, like, if I was still going to have a job, like I didn't. 9/11 was so horrible and so impactful to everybody, even people that had didn't know one person that died there. But it felt like just everything was going to be different from that point on. I never experienced that before. So I was like, well, nobody's going to want to read about sports and fucking bad takes on movies. And then I remember at some point, everybody just started to be like, all right, I got to do my job again. And I remember within like a week, I went to go see Hardball with Keanu Reeves with my buddy, Jacko. >> The best. >> And I wrote a column about it. And I was just like, this is my job. Like, you have the coolest job over here. >> Like, maybe people will read this, and they'll take their mind off shit for 10 minutes. But I think that's the only time in my life. I ever remember America like that where everybody was kind of like, what do we do? Like, are we all going to work tomorrow? And then you kind of figure it out. >> You just got me really afraid because I've had to, you know, I'm recording the World Trace Center right now. I was scared enough as it is the first time. That would be a fool me, shame on me, switch with them. >> It's weird to go there and not think about it. >> Yeah. >> Because the spot biopses are there. That's where you are now. And you go. >> When you read the word on the text, this is where I have to go. I'm like, really? >> And this is 25 years ago. >> So long. >> But were you grew up in California? >> I grew up in Vegas. >> Yeah, yeah. >> But I'm an LA sports fan, yeah. >> But you weren't in, you didn't get to New York until the mid-2000s. So you weren't there. >> Right, yeah. >> Right. I wasn't there. But I remember in high school, I was a freshman. And I was like a, I was like a no-at-all asshole. And I was like, actually, it's probably the al-Qaeda network of terror because they recently did an attack on the USS Cole. So I was like, "Shut up!" I was like, "Sorry." I was like, I was looking back on it like, everyone likes politics now. And it used to be like something that if you liked it, you were a loser. And I think it kind of should go back to that. I think too many people are obsessed with politics now. I got made fun of for it. And as well, I showed it. But it's weird to see that nowadays. But yeah, no, I wasn't here for that. But yeah, I was born in LA. I'm a LA sports fan because my dad immigrated in '81 to LA. And he got into American sports to have something to like share with his kids. But I was at the Gibson game in '88. How amazing is that? I was a baby. Yeah. More amazing than he stayed. Because you go to doctor games and people get that F out of there. But before the 9th inning, it's really like you're making a choice. It's like, if you say it's an extra two hours. It's the world's here. I mean, yeah, it's true. No, you'd be surprised because I went to the 18th inning game in October. And I was surprised how many people left. My friend was there. Yeah. And he said that it was weird. He said that ball wasn't caring because there was like a high pressure system or something. It was dead. There was like an insane vibe there. It must have been agony to be sitting there for hours and hours. I loved it. No, I really had to get weird, great seats. But I really had a good serving beer. Oh, yeah. They stopped serving everything. I mean, if I had another beer, I'd be fine. I'd be like, can you guys open it back up? We're going to be here another, yeah, 9 innings of extra. Well, what you said was the key thing because I forget, somebody who would just clearly seem like it was going to be a homer and the thing just died. And we were like, are we ever leading so many warning trash shots? I remember. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I was a big dodger thing initially. But then, yeah, I guess my team's out with the Lakers and Arsenal. And I watched like software a lot, no, which is the, as I was saying in the last podcast, the worst kind of American you could be. It's like something that I shouldn't, it does feel lame. I have to be an American soccer fan. I just think of because America, because we haven't really had a truly great player, because the team and the World Cup thing, the whole World Cup, our chances feel like we're in a worse spot than we were 15 years ago. Even though everyone I know who like soccer insists that we have the most talent we've ever had. It's just that everybody has more talent. I don't know what's right. Yeah. There's not one. They have no swag. They don't have that one dude that like a nine year old could would be like, I want to wear that guys jersey. Maybe it'll happen in the World Cup though. The center back Tim Reem. I saw on my Instagram algorithm, he was like doing advocacy for, he said, when I was a kid, I wet my bed. And he's like one in five kids wet the bed. I'm like, done before the cup. Not before the World Cup. Don't do bed wetting advocacy. It's like, come on. Do a do a cigarette commercial. I don't even know if they make those everyone. Do it do beer. Who would make us look cool? Who would be if he would if he was in our country. Who would be the coolest, like who would be the guy that actually own soccer for America. What out of any player? Yeah. If that person, they just happen to be American. No, Messi too. I mean, I would have to be somebody younger. I'm going to be younger. There's someone cool. I don't know. I mean, Messi's, you register that it's the best. It's the best we've ever seen, ever. I'm aware. I'm aware. He's like twice as good as Ronaldo. And he still might cook this time around. It's weird. How old is he now? Is he 40 yet? I think 30s somewhere here. He's kind of hurt. He doesn't have to go back on defense. He gets to just walk around. And then there's this thing that happens inside of him. And then it'll be like 12 seconds of chaos. And then it'll be in the back of that. He's like a bizarre guy. I think he didn't speak until he was like 11. There's something like he was just given by God for this one purpose. But no. I mean, who would be cool to be American? I don't know. I don't know. It would be cool if American athletes were played soccer. I speculate on that. It's like speculating what would if LeBron played tight end or something. Or like, I don't know. Thinking about like our best athletes, like if Kai replayed soccer, I mean, I would imagine he'd be like one of the best. Kai reads a great one. I was that Iverson was my favorite one for this game because even there's high school football footage of Iverson where it's like he's incredible and it's like any sport that he played, he just would have been incredible. It's my favorite YouTube just watching Iverson. What do you think? Do you think he would have been like top five football player of all time? Was he like Dion? What do you think he would have projected us? I think he would have been like everything. I think he would have been like almost like what we want Travis Hunter to be except he just would have been at a whole other level athletically. Travis Hunter is an awesome athlete. He's just like a runner back receiver type of person, I think. Well, he was like an option quarterback as well, right? But I guess everyone's a quarterback to high school. Like a, yeah, you could tell his throwing motion was a little, but you know, he had a big arm though. He did, but it wasn't like the mechanics were off. But then when he took off, he would just run through people. It was like when the gym teacher gets to play with the fifth grade class and he's just dusting everyone. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I watched that video all the time. I also watched, if there's a video, I really like of Derek Rose doing a Chicago footwork when he was like the dance battle against someone in high school and he's an unbelievable. Yeah. If a guy like Derek Rose played, played soccer, I mean, it'd be, yeah, conversely, Randy Moss playing basketball was great. Like there's some guys who are just like the greatest athletes we've ever heard of. I chocolate. Yeah. They were on the same team with one chocolate, right? Yeah. Unreal. Yeah. So it was that, that commercial. Do you remember the Nike commercial? Oh, yeah. Just a good old mold. Yeah. I really would have been interesting because, you know, he's basically ambidextrous, right? He does. Yeah. So he would have been able to kick perfectly with both feet. His footwork and everything would have been great. I don't know. Like, it's a center of gravity too. Yeah. He gets in these weird angles. Three though. Like, who's the best six three soccer player? So many. So many. All right. There's so many. Yeah. I mean, like Zlatan is doing, it was a lot of times six, five I think, right? Yeah. There's what's cool is that you could be five, five, five, six and be in the best of the world. Well, that's why so. You could be six. You could be six four and be the best in the world, like, uh, yeah, they've had guys that are like close to seven footers. And I mean, Peter Crouch was amazing. And he was technically gifted too. He wasn't just doing headers. He, like, he could use his feet. But, you know what would be amazing? Who? As like a sweeper slash a six, um, castle. Oh, my God. Like that's like dog. He's absolute maniac, super physical, like 10 out of 10 athlete and relentless. And if you just put him at the six, he would have been out of control. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I think you have like a, like a, like a, I guess a free safety or a, or like a, a linebacker playing, like in the backline, like, think of guys like that. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's actually we, that's the disappointment is that it's just, uh, I guess, I guess we haven't been able to sell it yet. You were saying in 2002, we thought that it was like a moment where we could sell it. But um, we thought it was coming because it started in '94. That was like the first real moment where we're like, oh, maybe. And then, um, yeah, the O2 World Cup. That was when my first year at ESPN, like writing columns and it felt like people cared them, um, 2014 was another one when it felt like you're, we lost a Portugal, right? Yeah. I liked the land of Donovan. Oh, yeah. 2000. Yeah. And there was a spirit about them. And it felt, there was a moment when Josie felt like he was going to be the next guy. And it felt like we actually had older guys and younger guys and guys in the way up. And then all of a sudden, we were not qualifying for the World Cup and wondering what happened. Good subplot in the World Cup this year's, uh, the Canadian coach, uh, as a burl halter, was our coach. I remember. He is just talking shit. He said that it's what it is is the athletic, uh, like association. He said the US soccer is, uh, has an issue. It's, it's structural, he said. And, uh, but he's also just running his damn mouth, which is kind of a cool subplot because we're a co-host in this, uh, World Cup. But, uh, yeah, I just don't, I don't know. Maybe I'm completely wrong. There are people that disagree with me, but I'd see, I'd see them under achieving. Like, there's always a bump by being a host nation, though, but, uh, it's like, it's weird. It's like, uh, do you see where they're doing their, uh, where they're doing the, like training camps, like base camps? Where? Oh, my, it's amazing. They have, uh, well, they have, uh, like Bosnia, Herzegovina is in a Salt Lake city. They have ivory coast and Philly, which is sick. Just imagine that is sick. Yeah. Uh, Qatar, Santa Barbara, I'm pretty sure they got the nice, they, they bought the nicest way, obviously, um, there's so many, I, I have a list of, uh, there's one that was just killing me, uh, well, now it's bad podcasting, but I got to find it, but, yeah, this is, uh, I thought you were a better professor in this. I'm sorry, dude. I, I didn't have this prepared. Can I ask you a question about the Canada co-host thing? Yeah. Is this like in college, you're having a party at the main house and you're having it with somebody else, but it's kind of, their house is over there and more people are in the big house. Are they an actual co-host? What do you say? Are they an actual co-host or are they kind of glomming on to us, Canada? Which Canada, um, I think that they have hate in their gut and I think that Mexico is a, it's a, is a mess right now. Mexico, I think I see them completely, I honestly, one of my spices is that as Mexico crashes out of the group stage because their fan base is toxic, right? They don't have any players that like have any category and play, play in Europe. They, they act like they're Real Madrid and they have, they've never won shit. They lose to America now. They should be ashamed of themselves. And Canada has this like resentment that comes from their coach. We have like this pressure of like, it's kind of America's World Cup still, right? What is a Vancouver in Toronto? It's like two places, right? Like, it doesn't, I think it, we're the main show here. Yeah. And I think it's the most pressure in Canada. It's our show. Yeah, it is kind of, but there's, I mean, I feel really bad, but it's going to be worth it. It's just so, wait, there's one that is so funny. They have. So you like, right? Right. And Portugal is in Palm Beach, which is like, Cristiano is definitely going to go Mar-a-Lago. For sure. Argentina. This is real. Argentina is in Kansas City, right, in the summer. So apologies to Nick Wright. That sounds like shit. And like, they're, literally, there was a tornado warning. First day they were there, but like messies, which is like standing silently and still in the middle of a tornado, feel like it takes also, there's another aspect that like in Europe, the stadiums are closer to the metropolitan areas. So like, you have the fans, like kind of marching towards the stadium, kind of like how MSG is, like it's the middle of the city. And yeah, like going like three hours to fucking mat life, like it's just like, you don't have that same atmosphere like around the stadium and stuff. And it's a, also, I'm like a little bit worried. I'm not going to, whatever. You know, they banned water bottles, that's the other part of it. If it's just banned water bottles, can I say something? Yeah. What is this off to the record? Don't ever apologize to Nick Wright, not on this podcast. All right. Whatever. Screw that guy. Just sucking up the fucking liberal. No, no, I'm just kidding. No, we like Nick Wright. We like they banned water bottles. Yeah. If he was not letting them bring in water bottles. So they have to buy water, it's like the ticket prices are really expensive. What's going to happen is this. We're going to say, and I'm doing a podcast about it. We're going to say, like, oh, guys, like, it's too many teams as well. That's the other issue. They like expanded the field. There's no groups of deaths where like a big team does a qualify because they want the big teams in the group stages. I hate that. I love the groups of deaths. I love seeing like Germany crash out in the group. It's like, it's really, and it makes it exciting from the beginning. Yeah. And but something is going to happen. And we that the world is going to explode. Like, there's a high probability we're going to see messy and Ronaldo in a knockout, right? And I don't know if I can handle it. Like, it's really just like he has to lose. Ronaldo has to lose. I can't see he's going to be so self-satisfied and spoke about it, but he has a better team. Um, also, there's just like, yeah, I was telling you before that like element of Iran being here in the middle of a war. And then potentially if they get second place in the US getting second place in the groups they play in Dallas, you know, is it on the 4th of July, or is it not? - I thought it was, it was in the vicinity of it. Yeah, they would play America. - And by the way, America getting second places conceivable. Like that's, they're probably the favorite. - Turkey are a flop artists also. I'm not as afraid as Turkey as people are giving them credit for. People are always like, oh, Turkey has something and they always, them and Belgium, they're just like chronic underachievers. And Egypt during most all has been the same way. Like, they're all in the cup and I think they're all kind of place-dinkers. - Are you gonna try to go to a game or you don't care if you go? - I'm going to Norway, Senegal. I'm only going if it's free bill. - I'm not going there and buy it. - I mean, what is it? It's $100,000 for what? - It's less than the game for next tickets. Well, that's, the game for the next one game three, game four and next ticket will become the hardest sports ticket of all time. 'Cause I'm like, for our baseball, it's 20,000 seats total. - Yeah. It is really, we were saying before, but it's crazy, I'm gonna stop saying that. It is crazy to conceive of where Trump is gonna be sitting. Like if he's courtside and we're just watching it the whole time, it's gonna be distracting for a viewer. He's just like sitting there. Like, it's a, I imagine he's gonna be in a box of some sort. - Oh, see, I completely disagree. I think he's gonna absolutely be courtside. I think- - Imagine like his secret service guy standing in front of Timothy Schallable. - It's gonna be like what's going to make- - Like what's going to make- - What's going to make- - whether it goes, when he floated my other, maybe whether it's that courtside, they would have his security guards would be behind him. - Yeah. - And so I guess that would happen. - He okay, watch the game. - His girlfriend. - Well, the funny, the thing I was thinking if he's courtside, you know, the way Trump sits, 'cause he doesn't cross his legs, and he sits with his legs out, with his, with his, doing the- - With the diamond. - With the diamond? - Yeah. - Yeah. - But on courtside, the seats are like this, and you can't spread your legs out at all. - I feel like that. - Like the subway. - Whoever's on either side of him is gonna be miserable the entire game, 'cause Trump's gonna camp three seats. - Kendall Jenner is gonna be like swish to him. That's the other thing. There's, you know, courtside, you're walking by people, there's handshakes. There's gonna be people who aren't gonna want the handshake. - It's gonna be- - Yeah, and everybody filming it. So if you do the handshake, it's on film, you know. - I don't just, I just don't, the thing that's nice about sports is, I just, we don't have to deal with politics. It's like, it's like a crazy time right now. It's like, uh, there was like a Jewish, there was like this player that could, we don't, they maxed down in for Arsenal. - Yeah. - And I was like, I was like, I told my friend, I was like, just look up if he's Jewish. It should be huge for me. He's up next, right? I was like, can you imagine? Like if we get one. - 'Cause for us, we, it's just insane if we get one, right? And then I realized, I was like, I don't want him to be. I'd rather him not. Because it's like, yeah, he's gonna have to, they're gonna ask him about the war in the Middle East. And stuff, and he's gonna, just don't add, like don't, like it's too much pressure. Like just don't be like an evangelical or something. Like, be like what, like SUNY Islam. Just please don't be. - I always talk to my friend Chang about this 'cause he loves when there's any sort of Asian and Mena Climes is big on this too. But we were texting this weekend about Dylan Harper, the Filipino mom. - I know. - Yeah. And I feel like they haven't gotten excited enough about this. - And Clarkson too. We got two in the finals. - But Harper might be, I mean, he's one of the best young guards that's coming to the league in 30 years. - He's unreal. - So I don't know. - I think we're forgetting, we're missing how good he is. 'Cause it's just a Wembee. There was that game in the last, every series of theirs has been Mussy TV. The Spurs. - I love watching them. I said in the segment before you came on, I think this part of the key to the series with the Spurs is realizing that Harper is their second best guy. They just have to accept it. He's funny, he comes off the bench, like you just throw it at the window. It's, I think Kobe was. - You should swipe it. - You just gotta like accept it. - This is your die, do it. - Yeah. I think you should sweep, ship swipe, swipe up. That's what I would do. - Yeah. I mean, they gotta figure out how to win this series. They can't think about it in the exterior. But ultimately, I would guess Fox is in there. - The team is really bad when he's not playing, right? When they add a couple of pieces, it's terrifying. - Yeah. - Yeah, in fact, the next half to win because he's not fair. But, yeah. - Well, that's the thing. If the next lose game three, then that will open up. There's only 48 hours for a game four and that will open up the whole. They have to do this now. This is the best chance they're ever gonna have. Okay, so he's gonna ever remember him back. St. Antonio would be a year older. Indiana's getting their guys back. Boston's getting theirs guys. Like, this is your window right now, New York. - And it's also just the ghosts of the past. The ghosts of the garden. I mean, it's scary. It's very scary. If they lose game three, it will be terrifying again. 'Cause they were so 50/50 both those games, right? Like they could have lost either of them. - Yeah. - And it's like, usually you win away. It's game over, like in the series. You have to, they're not gonna win four or five. But like, I'm like, I don't know. Well, it feels like this series anything could happen. And it's like, every game is just so, it's like just actually the best basketball I've watched in so long. And it's like, yeah. There's like, we were saying before, but there's so much tibs in the team, right? There's so much like, hard nose like, you know, they just get to like, play less minutes. - No. - They don't have to play like in March. They don't have to play 48 minutes or whatever, you know. - What am I wearing sports clothes there? - For sure. The more baggage you have, the more likely it is that stuff will happen along the ride to the end of your exorcism journey. Like for the patriots when we beat the Rams, we had this game winning defensive touchdown that got called back 'cause of a penalty. But as guys run down the sidelines, it's like, there's 10 minutes, oh my God, we just won the Super Bowl and then it got called back and all these skeletons popped up. And then the Rams score a few. And yeah, it's like, oh, why did I let my guard down? I should have known. And I think for the next, you gotta, you gotta quick taste a bit when Brunson, when they fell into his knee, in game one and was like, oh my God, why didn't I, why didn't I have my guard up? And it's just there's no, there's no easy path to getting rid of all the skeletons. You have to have a couple of those as it goes. - Because you think it's gonna happen again and you know how bad it is. - Yeah. - Like with Arsenal, the saying is the hope that kills you, right? 'Cause every single year, I think something good might happen. And then it doesn't. And it's kind of a reminder you're gonna die one day. Like if you're like a fan of a team that wins every year, you are like you, you're like, I'm gonna live forever, I'm gonna cheat on my tax, I'm gonna cheat on my wife. I'm gonna like, yeah, I'm just, your life is a cocaine, just fever dream and you're so happy. And you don't think about death ever. But if you're a team of like a team, or a fan of a team like that, you're like, you're just expecting everything to fall apart all over again. And you're like, I haven't talked to my family in months. I wasn't worth it. Like, I'm just sitting in this living room. And my wife's like, did your team lose? And you're like, what does that mean? Did my team lose? You like, yeah, and then you get mad, you yell. You go for a walk. You go for a stress walk alone. - Yeah. - I did that a lot when I was younger. A lot of dog walks after tough losses. - I went for a walk in the namehood. - I went for a walk after the tuck game. I went for a walk. I'm a Raider fan. But I think actually I stopped like football kind of after that. I was like, fuck football. I was like, this sucks. Charles Wilson was my favorite player. Good for you, good for you, good for you. - So if you had to guess with game three, do you think it's going to be? - It's a long story. - In all time memorable games? - It's a long story. - Would you go memorable game, memorable game? Disappointing game, or just fucking weird all night from start to finish? 'Cause that's where I was off. - I think the vibe is going to be super weird the whole game. - The vibe is off. I think it's the Trump of it all. And Big Z is there, Mom Donnie's there too? - Big Z. - Are you the only one that calls some big Z? Is that his nickname? - Is it Julius Algauskas? No, no, Mom Don, it's just like, yeah, Trump, if Trump is court side and he's making out with Kendall Jenner and Timothy's crying, what are we going to do? Are we going to be watching that game? Can you imagine? He's like, I played Bob Dylan. - The truth is, you didn't even pay for this ticket, babe. - I mean, no, I didn't deny it, but they're giving it to me 'cause of me, 'cause I go to the Oscars now and you're making out with the president. How dare you. No, I mean, it's, it'll be weird, but I think-- - The truth is, he shouldn't go. Because, and it's just like, it's too much of a distraction and too much of a hassle for a game that's already complicated enough. And the league obviously, if the president wants to go to the game, you should go, but like, no normal president would go to this game. They would go to a game in February against like the Raptors. They're not gonna go to like, game three of the finals, uproot the entire four hour infrastructure before the game. And it's just, well, you go to a game where they're gonna go nuts if you walk, you go to MMA, right? You don't like-- - Yeah, but he might think that's gonna happen. - People don't think he's doing a good job. He got booed when he went to the polling station in 2016. And he like changed his residency to, but he misses New York, I think. - This is, I've heard that, yeah. - This is like his way to get back to him in the air. - Try not to start dating us again. - Yeah. - Hey guys, that was very good. - I bet it's like a J-Lo and Affleck got back together. - I'm living my best life in Palm Beach, just so you know, I don't know if you saw the pictures. - Wait, boom. - And Matt? Setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. 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Try new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. - Maybe it's Mavily. - We have to do something quickly on your podcast. - Sure. - You were on a come town on ABC, one of my favorite sitcoms. - It was on, yeah. - It wasn't a sitcom, it was a podcast. - It was called Home Improvement, yeah. - Your initial podcast was come town, and you guys never realized ever that you'd actually make money from it, and then all of a sudden you were making money from it, and turned it into an actual, you know? - Yeah, everything that's happening in my life has been excellent. - Well, you thought the podcast was gonna promote like your comedy and the weekends, and all of a sudden, people like that. - Yeah, we didn't know that you could make money from podcasting, and then so that we kind of like, I think, yeah, we didn't know how it was growing. They used to ask us for like interviews and stuff, and Nick had like a no-media policy. - Smart. - And I didn't, and it's just like at a certain point then you're like, I had to work two hours a week, and I became the lazyest man in the world. And so like, - Welcome. - Yeah, then I was just like, but it sucked. I mean, you're watching sports for work. - Yeah, it's great. - I'm so jealous of you. Now that's you. That's gonna be you during the World Cup. - Yeah, beautiful pod. - She's not gonna respect it. I'm telling you, she's still, she's not gonna respect the, and my, I'm a sports pundit, no, no, no, no. In reality, yeah, this new show started and it was a joke, and it's really credit to my old co-host, Nick, 'cause our Stavros, who's our friend, he was exhausted and he left come town. And I was like, but we should keep doing it, Nick. We have a brand, you know, we should keep doing it. And he was like, no, you gotta listen to him. - There's more come and come town. We gotta keep going. - I'm gonna turn you into a public intellectual, to into like in the vein of Dick Cabot. But like, we very publicly pronounced, I think it was a joke. I mean, it's like, I was the least beloved member of the three by far, but probably least talented by far too. And not probably, definitely. I mean, they're like geniuses, the two of them. And then I guess I decided to try for the first time. I never had, I think I was 35. It's really scary too. You know that? It's scary 'cause if you try as hard as you can and then it sucks, and you feel bad. That's why it's sport like Wendy was like this, 'cause he tried as hard as he could. - Right. - And yeah, it sucks, like if it does go well. - That was Shaq in the 2000 season. He's like, I'm really gonna go for this and try to win the MVP in the finals, but it's scary 'cause if it doesn't happen, now that you feel terrible. - Right. - And it's like, yeah, and so then I just somehow fell and we didn't know how to make a television show. We publicly pronounced to the world, we're making a TV show and then we were like, so we should get some cameras, maybe. Then we got into office and like some building and then we build out a set. It was like all happening in real time and then eventually it's become a real thing. - Well, one of the best things is you have a crazy guest list. I would say a clectic is the right word for it, but you'll basically, you'll interview anybody. You don't care. - I had Sarah Jessica Parker and then I had one of them, Nelk boys in the next episode. Yeah, so I kind of like that, is having an unpredictable kind of rollout of guests. It kind of makes it fun and feel fresh. But yeah, that's one of the things that I enjoy the most about it. But I don't know, I really like doing them because you were telling me you used to do interviews, but I do a lot of research. I do like two weeks of research for each guest. And I have researchers that we hire that are some of the journalists and people that we bring in and do research packets for me. But it's what's really cool is like trying to account for what someone is like that you've never met. And then like building together the evidence that you find on that's been prepared for you. It's like being an FBI profiler. You want to, you want to disarm a guest, right? You want them to be comfortable so they'll open up more. So you have to like kind of try to plan for like whatever trip wires there are. So you can like continue to like keep them comfortable enough. I think the way I do it kind of maybe a little bit, it's just to present to them that I'm so un-serious, they really don't, it's, they don't have to worry. Like I'm a pretty dumb guy and like, you know. - Then let the guard down there. - I used to be on a show called Compton. There was a time I pooped my pants during an episode and literally I was laughed at by thousands of people. And I went home and I was like, I just feel like I did, it was like in front of the whole school and I'm like, yeah. And then I might not have kids that are going to hear about that. They're going to respect me as a father. And she's like, I think you're getting a little carried away and I was like, gee, why would you even, no, why would I, and how happy it made them that I pooped my pants. - In shock, I think I'm, no, and now I'm talking like Gavin Newsom and it's really shame on them. I don't, I'm not fully aware of why this is happening but I'm not asking any questions. I guess the show's good but like, it is really, I don't know, like it's insane how fast this has been. It's been a year since I relaunched the show, I made it weekly and it's grown like so rapidly. And now I've got to talk to my hero. - Gavin Newsom? - Oh, I built it as posters in my wall. - I think I make Gavin Newsom. - I support Sky Articles and pin up girls. I had your articles and they said pin up girls. And me and the rest of the GIs we used to whistle at your articles. - No, well, you had all these, I noticed something was happening 'cause you started to do really smart press. People write these features about you - I didn't know. - Is he the Millennium John Stewart? That's stuff like that. I was like, this is great. He's figured it out. - All my friends made fun of me for that 'cause are you the millennial John and the pictures that they use every time? I'm just like every single, they use one of me like this. And I'm like every comedian is gonna make, I like went to this building for the photo shoot. And they like had me go on the floor with a microphone like this and I was like, I like stopped them. I was like, can we not do this one? And they made it the main picture. Like every comedian group chat was like, "Fuck this guy." I was like, but then I guess that's every comedian group chat anyway. - Yeah, of course. - Yeah, you suspect that. - It's just resentment and barbs. - Yeah, I guess like the other couple ones I didn't know they were writing. I think they were like reviews. But it's just, you know what it is? I think it's really sad. I think they have, it's sad they don't have anything better than this. - Well, there was a whole theory post the election about well, where is, where is the other version of this, and I don't know, I never understood it. - A guy that wants to be the president is talking to me. - Yeah. - To me, talking about sports is I'm like excited because we're gonna go like a, I get to take a break from the show and I'm just a banking episode. I'm going on pre-production. Yeah, yesterday I tweeted at Hunter Biden. Apparently he's coming on the show. And then someone like banking episodes I'm building out a role after season three. - Wow. - And then in the meantime, I get to do the sports thing. And I get to watch like, you know, ivory coast versus, you know, Australia and tell my girlfriend that it's important. This is business. And she's like, my parents are here right now. - And you think, France and Spanner, the two favorites. - I think they are. - And you like Brazil plus eight, 50 on Fandoas. - There's, I do. There's so many arguments for and against everyone. That's what's kind of fun. Brazil has like the magic of Don Carlo. - Yeah. - The magic of like the guy that's just, he just eats food. It just tells them just to have fun out there. And somehow it's just like has this energy, like this vibe about him that's just a, creates this, just, yeah, like I was, Pep Guardiola, like used to just being a lair next to a candle lobby. The night before the Champions League final, just with like, just constructing most psycho tactics. And like, this is, he'll never see this coming. And then just lose to Don Carlo the next day. It's just like, it was like perfect, like just a destruction of like someone that's overly thinking everything. And someone that's just like, just have fun. You guys are so good at sports. Can you imagine when you were little, if that you knew you were gonna do this? That's awesome. You know, he's probably saying stuff like that. And, but like, you know, Portugal has the best mid, Portuguese midfield is disgusting. It's a joke. I mean, they have Neves, they have Bruno and they have Vittinia. It's like, there's like so many, the Dutch backline is the best, you know? And it's just, but they're like issued, their holes, you could convince yourself a bit. I think conventional wisdom is like the, France or Spain do it. And like, does America get out of their bracket? The bracket, I don't know, if they get out of the group, I think that we in the group crash out first, first knockout. That's my prediction. It just feels like that to me. I think that there's something, there's something just, like, there's no energy there. And America, the country isn't just going nutso for them right now. What under 25 priority think Tommy Alter's gonna say, hey, I'm going to dinner tonight was so and so. It's between games, do you want to join us? Which one is he gonna go on to? Yeah, out of any country. I don't know. Oh, the World Cup. He knows soccer player soup? Well, I just feel like he's gonna add it to it. is Arsenal. Yeah, he's gonna go like a hookup or a little bit more. Bob and Bob is in town. We're gonna go to the battery tonight if you want to meet us. Yeah, who would I want it? Well, who would I want to chill with with Tommy Alter? I mean, Sacka is my favorite player. Yeah, Bukai O Sacka. He's a he's like the guy. He's the guy at 17 who pulled Arsenal out of like just the worst period in our history and had been there since he was like eight years old. And yeah, it's just like there's something there's something special about that. He's also another guy who he had a rough season, but I'm gonna say he's at a world class talent level in sports, but he's uniquely decent as a human being. Like there is an aspect of like you have to shed your like humanity kind of sometimes like there's a like Jordan Kobe kind of had to build themselves into psychos to like achieve what they achieved, right? And that we there's an understanding. We're like, yeah, if you're gonna be like, I want to take the last shot at the buzzer and miss. You have to be crazy. You have to be like, it has to be me, right? And you have to like kind of build yourself into a sociopath. And that's what he's trying to do. He's Webby has it. We love he took the last shot of game too. Like, I don't feel like Shack would have done that in the second year of his career. Well, what was there to see? What even is that? Yeah. I don't know. He's like, he's direct and he's what even is he? But uh, but yeah, I could you think of anyone in sports who's like just like one of the best players in the world and is just a good guy. I can't think of it actually. I think of like you have to kind of build yourself into a monster to beat like, does that make any sense to you or no? I think you have to be I think there has to be a little bit of a zero-sum game mentality to really dominate a sport. How did you like get ready in the locker room before a game and just be like a lovely person, right? I doesn't make sense. You have to kind of be like, I want to I want to kill today. And I'd be at I know I want to humiliate other people. Well, look at Brady now. Brady posts NFO and people are like, wow, he's kind of weird. It's like, yeah, because you got to be kind of weird to be the best quarterback of all time. I we had no idea. No, you didn't know. I had no idea that he was weird while he was playing. Yeah, we we started near the end. He's so offended. It's so real to you. It's so funny. Oh, he's a family member. He brought us six Superbolts. Did he kiss you on the lips? No, he just who did he kiss on the lips? The son. Yeah. And so did Belgium, the daughter. There's kind of a nice thing about kissing on the lips. Do you want to leave on that note? No. Now we have to wrap up, though. I know. Okay. I've just been thinking about this last podcast the whole time. No, come on. We're fine. Now we hit a lot of the same stuff. Why don't you do this? You told a great story about Kobe and Michael Jackson in the last podcast. Sorry, because it was a really good anecdote. I'd never heard it. Yeah. Did you look it up afterwards? I didn't state any facts. I didn't look at it. Just look it up. I'm not gonna. No, we got to go. Tell the story. We were talking about Kobe. No, no, seriously. Well, we were talking about Kobe and about how it took me a while to round in the Kobe and all the twists and turns. And then you told the story. I never heard. We were talking about, yeah. There was something about him just having his whole thing about mentorship, right? And then, yeah, but after Balteck, Kobe, rookie, or slam dunk champion, apparently he decided he wanted to have a man's body. But he needed a man's body. Not he wanted. But he was a child. I mean, you look little. Like LeBron is rookie. You look like that was a grown-ass man. But yeah, apparently he was like at Gold's Gym. He's like lifting weights. And he got a call. And he was like, Kobe, it's Michael. And then he was like, no, it's not. He hung up. And he's like, Kobe, I swear to God, it's Michael. Don't hang on, please, please, please. And so he's like, he's like, you want to come up to never let like I want to meet you and say what up? It would be great to meet you. So he went out there and he gave him this book. It's like a child's book, Jonathan Livingston's sequel. And he said, this is your, I've watched you and you're like me. And people are going to keep you with praise and give you everything you want. And then they're going to take it away. And you just have to remember that one moment when they take it away, that you can't stop. Like you can't stop, like just like what's driving you. And it's kind of like, that is kind of a good assessment of Kobe's career and good understanding of it. But he does this four years before the trial, right? So it's like 99 range. So it's about to like, apparently. Yeah. Yeah. So apparently they were like in touch well before that. And then or but prior to since that. And then afterwards, I think with they both had legal trouble, the legal call or other thing. And the second trial, they stopped talking. But um, yeah, he was like, uh, just, just you can't forget, like you have to just, you, you have to just push yourself as hard as you possibly can. And, uh, and do not let them like take that away. And it's like, it's kind of, for me personally, like, I was so sad. Because how old was he? What do you have three? He was like 24? Probably. Yeah. Yes. Which is so many chips at such a young age. And then we're like asking ourselves like, what could happen now? Like he could just win a zillion, right? But you know, and being back there, like being an adult during that, it was always shacking Kobe together. How many were they going to win together? Can they win eight? And they were always a team. And then the catch would be, can these guys stay together? And then that eventually became the issue. So my dad, who got really into American sports and Los Angeles after the piston series, yeah, stood up with about two minutes to go in the fourth. And he's still he's shouted. He's like, we never go on family walks. We're like what? And he's like, everyone get your shoes on. And he was walking like five feet in front of us, just pissed. Like, uh, this is Joe Rogan. My dad. Oh, Max, my real dad. Uh, yeah, my father, Joe Rogan. No, yeah. I didn't say his name. I just said that he was a host of a show called the Joe Rogan. No, but it was so I have this memory of like me, me and my mom and my sister, we're like, he was like 10 feet in front of us. And we were trying to walk fast. He was walking as fast as he could. He was just so mad. The Ben Wallace pistons. Yeah, that was it. That was an awful being a Laker fan that it felt terrible. I mean, that was a even more stunning result than the series we're having now because I kind of even though the spurs were a lot of people, but a lot of people are picking the next center was six seven. Yeah. How big was Ben Wallace? But he was like six nine, but he was six three. Yeah. And he was body and shack. It was like, yeah, what was that team was Billips Tachon? It was like, we never saw that coming. And yeah, whatever. But yeah, yeah, ever since then, tell me how my ass tastes and the shack shack is kind of gifted a fourth ring. Dwayne goes on like a historic tear. It was laughing at Kobe now. Shut up. Shack was pretty important on that team. He was pretty important at an offense shack. He rides Dwayne's co-tails to the to a fourth. And no, no, but did you ever say that my favorite player? And I was like, but he's also, I think he was blamed for the breakup of that team unfairly. And I think the it was really the buses that that wanted to break the team up. And I think that in retrospect, like, you don't think so. Yeah, there's been a lot of books written about this. I think Kobe, Kobe wanted his own, Kobe was ready for his own team. And I think he was incredibly frustrated by trash, mishpark gets mishparker on the phone. No, but I think he was, I think him and Shack were not meant to be. They were not meant to be a long-term marriage. I mean, all the stuff that happened off the court didn't help either. But, you know, I'm gonna say that Kobe was a Kobe's fault. No, but in reality, I think it's just like you see it. It's just like LeBron after the decision, the guy who's beloved just everyone's like, ha, ha, like we love seeing, we love seeing people destroyed somehow in society. And then in America, we do in the UK, they don't. It's weird. Well, I watched like British sports. They don't have a concept of a comebacks. It's insane. But like when Tiger won, I cried, right? Like, because I was like, I never thought I'd see him again. And I was like, he was what I was a kid. He was like in sports illustrated for kids. And he was like, he was also a kid like me. And he was winning by like 20 strokes and making Phil Mikkelson want to kill himself every Sunday. Just eat shit every Sunday. This is how I felt when I saw the town. I was like, Affleck's fucking back. We're out of the woods. My guy is back. Let's go for a ride. You reminded me that you did this whole bit about tips and Steve Kerr and you wanted to redo it. So let's pretend we let's pretend you're ad lib in this from scratch. I asked you, because start if you were tips is best friend watching the next two games away from the finals. What would you say to tips? I would say, first of all, it's great to be best friends with you. You're an incredible guy. You're you're you're shot a lot. And also like what's going on with your throat? Like you always force. Should I make a little tea with honey? I have a coordination. Are you sick? Do you think it was necessary to play everyone 47 minutes in in no November? Why didn't you trust shaman? No, but you're trying to lift them up though, because the next are two. Your DNA runs through these boys. I mean, they that is a fair point. Yeah. Be honest. Like he, he, he, like built, like the how hard knows they are. And especially like seeing them collectively deal with Wembee. There is something about like, they're like, uh, yeah, he's made them tough. Like all the, even, I don't know, cat, cat's been at a new coach for a year. But like, it's a, it's a cat that we haven't seen yet, right? Yes. And it's like, but I, it, then, but I do, I feel bad. I do for like Mark, I felt really bad. Mark Jackson, but he was doing the ABC broadcast the year after he retired or retired. He was, uh, asked to leave because it was just like, how much he have felt like watching that? It must have been like watching your wife having sex with a man who has the biggest penis in the world and not only shit orgasm after orgasm, just sitting there saying, hand down man. That was good people at home. Just like he's whispering in her ear. And you're, you have to not only, no, wait, not only do you have to watch your wife having sex with the best, the guy that's giving her the sex of her life, you have to give a play by play on ESPN and ABC for the next five years. You have to do. Yeah. And now he's, no, he's, uh, it's reverse cowgirl. That was it. And that's some great reverse cowgirl. Whatever he does. And that's hand, that's good to eat but better. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I, I would hope that Van Gundy was just nice to him and said, like, listen, listen, never come on man. You're a good guy. You're a good guy. She wouldn't have known that she was going to love it like this until she went through the marriage with you. Yeah. No way of knowing it. I just, I didn't even know what will we get to happen with you. Yeah. This would have happened with you. You were around. You were great. I mean, it's, you know, are you sure for a job you want to be doing the play by play? Mike Breen is saying bang over and over again excitedly. Every time your wife career bang, bang. All right. We're wrapping up Adam Friedland show coming back in July and the beautiful pod starting in June on Wednesday. Chris Ryan, many others, maybe I'll have to pop up. Yeah, signing ceremony, signing ceremony. Great. All right. Thanks Adam Friedland. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to state farm for sponsors today's show. Thanks to Adam Friedland. Don't forget he is coming aboard. Go check out his podcast if you haven't listened to it. It's great. Really fun interviews of the whole variety of eclectic people. He's really good at what he does. Excited to have him with the World Cup. Excited to lend him CR for a few weeks. You know, we don't always do that. A lot of people want to borrow CR. Thanks to how and Eduardo and everybody from my side as well. Here's the plan. Monday night game three. It's going to end. And then Rob Mahoney and I are going to be live on Netflix, breaking down what is sure to be a memorable game in some respect. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm prepared for anything. New rewatchables is coming Monday as well. We did single white female. We're in the middle of from hell month. Also, we put up a mail back on Thursday. If you miss that one, just about an hour, but bang through some really fun questions. For that, I will see you in 32 hours, 36 hours, something like that. Enjoy game three. Must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas star Casino or 18 plus in president DC Kentucky or well, I mean, game prom caught 100 gamble or 1 800 by reset call 888 797777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat Connecticut or md gambling help.org Maryland. 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