Can We Pass These Insane Witch Trials Tests?

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This is the podcast where we cover topics, people, places, history, and more of a morbid macabre, dark and downright grizzly nature, in about 30 minutes or less. I'm Elise Williams. I'm Jessica Visami. Witch hysteria was so fervent and deadly in the 17th and 18th centuries that by the late 18th century in Europe, approximately 50,000 people had been executed for supposed crimes of witchcraft. We have covered the Salem Witch trials on the show before, so you know from that episode that five accused witches died in prison. One was press to death and 19 others were hanged. Yes, when individuals were put on trial for being a witch, they were also forced to participate in strange and even violent tests to try to prove their innocence. Today on the show, we're going to talk about what those tests were and go into how they would allegedly prove or disprove if somebody was a witch. And we should preface this by saying that we are not doing this to make light of the subject matter or what happened, the tragedy. But just to poke fun at ourselves a little bit, we're also going to discuss whether or not we think Jessica and I could have passed these seemingly impossible witch hunting tests. Seemingly impossible. A lot of them sound like you, there's no way. There's no way. You're kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Absolutely. When I was younger, I convinced my sister, who is two and a half, three years younger than me, that I was a witch. It was like an ongoing joke for, well, not a joke. Was it a joke? No, not a joke. That I was a witch until she got older and was able to understand that I was a bullshitting. But there was one day I remember where I was moving. I pretended to move the closet door with my mind. And I was really moving it with my foot. And she was so young that she couldn't even consider it. And she freaked out, started crying. Oh. And I loved it. She's like, you're a witch. She's always thought of me as evil. Especially when I came into my prime in high school. Yep, in high school when I went through my little emo phase and was wearing more black than anything else. And she's like, you've always been evil and a witch. I'm like, well, she's not wrong. You do have witchy ways. So do you. You played a witch in Arizona Circle and you looked so great. I do think you and I have that practical magic vibe. I agree. I think so. I hope, too. But I guess. Yes, that we just want to do bad things to the bad people. You're going to see a different side of this witch. Oh, oh, okay. All right. Yeah, I do think you're righteous. I would say that. Yeah. I think so. You stand up for the little guy. Yeah, for sure. Likewise. But don't try any of these tests on us. Okay. Don't. Okay, so one of the most common tests that was done was called swimming a witch. The accused were taken to the nearest body of water stripped down to their undergarments. Yep. And then they would bind their hands together and then drop them into water to see if they could float. That was the whole idea. It was that if you could float, that meant that you were a witch because the water was rejecting you. Okay. Yes. Yes. Water being a sacred element per religious belief. If somebody was possessed by evil, then the water would absolutely refuse them. But here's the problem, though. If you are innocent, you'd sink. So to solve this, they would tie ropes around the victim's torso. So if they sank and were there for innocent, they could be pulled to the surface. But then you're still like drowning potentially. Yes. Again, this is barbaric, of course. Yeah. But it's a little bit broken because innocent people died drowning by accident. Yeah. And I mean, you don't know who can swim or not swim and float and not float. People would accidentally drown, but also sometimes people did float. A mother and daughter in England who were both accused did. So the test was performed a second time with their hands bound to their feet. And they floated again. So they were convicted and then executed. Yeah. And this is just natural buoyancy of the human body that we're talking about here. Now, I can make myself heavy if needed. Do you ever do that thing? Like, I'll do this to my husband. He'll try to lift me off a couch or something. And I'll just make myself real heavy. Absolutely. Yes. Give it like when Kirby turns into a weight and smash brothers. Anyway. Well, question to you. Can you float? I can. Yes. Me too. And I mean, I can turn it on and off. Yeah. I would say the same too. And it's like positioning as well. I can float on my back. Yes. Correct. And I mean, when my mom threw me in swimming lessons when I was three, like one of the first things you learn is to float using your breath correctly. Yeah. So, yeah. Okay. Well, so far. I mean, okay. Well, this one could go either way from me and you because like I could turn it off or I could turn it on. I think I could mimic the sinking. Yes. I think I could too. Like you just said, like even though like I could make myself heavy and just let it happen. Yeah. I guess it depends on how your body is positioned. Mm-hmm. The thing that blows my mind about all of these is the logic behind them. Yes. And of course, the thinking of water being the sacred element, oh, so water wouldn't want a witch. Yeah. But what does a witch use in her potions, but water? Yeah. Okay, guys. Come on. Yeah. Exactly. We're not thinking about this. They're not. I don't know if they did a lot of thinking around this hall. Not sure, but you know. No. There was just a lot of hysteria. Yes. So, yes. I do think we could maybe pass this made probably. I agree. Yeah. I think so. Okay. You're in that was fed to a dog. What? Okay. So in this one, they wouldn't make a cake out of urine and feed it to a witch, but if you were suspected of being cursed by a witch, the person who was thought to be cursed, a sample of their urine would be baked into a cake. Mm-hmm. And then the cake was fed to a dog. Yeah. And so if the dog fell ill, the cursed was confirmed. This is, this is, this is, this one's a little bonkers to me. And there was another aspect of it where, like, we're treating these dogs like TSA agents where people thought that the dog that ate the cake would then be able to use the urine clues to sneak out who the witch was based on the urine. Okay. Let's, okay. Well, Elizabeth Paris and Abigail Williams, the two girls who were major players in the Salem Witch Trials, were thought to be cursed so their urine was baked into a cake. That's something I did not know. I didn't know that either. And I think it didn't really yield any results. Yeah. So it doesn't really get talked about much. Yeah, because this one's a little silly. This one too, it could, is my urine potent enough to be detected by it. Yeah. How much, how much, uh, what's the thing that makes your asparagus are you eating, Jess? Oh, yeah. And do you know asparagus, I didn't know this either. I thought asparagus affected everybody the same way. But, but not everybody, it doesn't happen to everybody. Oh, I didn't know. No, yeah, I'm pretty, actually, since we're here, hold on. I'd like to look it up real quick. Sure. I imagine a scenario where you and I are witches and we're being held on trial and the urine cakes are made. And then someone's like, this urine cake smells like asparagus. And then someone else cries out, goodie Jessica and goodie Elise have asparagus in their garden. Yes. Exactly. Yeah, with pan over to you and me holding bushels of asparagus. Yep. Yep. Yeah. No, it does. It's quite, it's quite the smell. But asparagus, it's good for you. It's the dough step eating it. I will say this, my dog, if he was fed this cake, I don't even know if he would eat it because he's not one of those dogs that eats like poop off the ground or anything like that. Okay. So I might be able to pass this test. I also don't know if I get the asparagus thing. I don't really eat much asparagus, actually, to know. Honestly, would you do that for me? Would you do that for me this week? Maybe eat some asparagus and then let me know if your pee smells. I guess I can. What's it supposed to smell like? Asparagus makes your pee smell like sulfur, often described similar to rotten eggs cooked cabbage or skunk spray. Wow. It doesn't smell good. I wouldn't consider mine. Maybe mine's not on like the full awful end of it, but it's not a great smell, but perhaps one of these. Remember how on Allie McBeal, one of the big things was that their law office had a unisex bathroom? Oh my god, the fact that you brought up Allie McBeal, like I watched that show with my parents years ago. I don't remember the unisex bathroom. Me too. thing about it. The big thing of this show in the 90s was like, oh, this law office is so hip. It's got this bathroom. So constantly, the employees of this law office are intermingling in this bathroom. They're running into each other in there. And I remember distinctly an episode where I think it was Ali was maybe hiding was Robert Danny Jr. was guesting on the show as Ali McNeil's boyfriend or whatever. And I think she was hiding her something and then he made some comments about how he could smell her because for herparagus diet, which seemed like such a crying back and forth banter. But now it's like, oh no, her piss was smelling like rotten eggs. Okay. Well, yeah, wow. And they were falling in love. I must say we will both fail this. I, yes. Yeah. Because watch out the day I eat asparagus. That's the day that I have to piss and put it in a cake. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. This next one, which marks, which is like a witch having marks like a birthmark, a mole or a scar on their body, signified the touch of the devil. So if you had like just like natural birthmarks, you would be accused of being a witch. This is interesting. Yeah. Sometimes the accused was publicly stripped, which is awful. So her body could be examined, even having her body completely shaved. So nothing could be concealed. Absolutely horrific. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Truly barbaric. And the belief of this originated in the Malifakaram, which was a famous 15th century treatise on finding and catching witches. It was like the book. It was witch hunting 101. Mm-hmm. Basically this book, yeah. Yeah. And this book claimed that when witches made a pact with the devil, they sealed the deal with a special mark on their body. And you were deemed doubly suspicious if you had a body marking that was shaped like something like an animal, for example. Mm-hmm. Right. Then it was like, oh, game over. Jesus. Yeah. And as a result, during the height of the European witch hunts, people who had natural birthmarks and moles or possessed old scars on their bodies tried to get rid of them to avoid being accused of witchcraft. Yeah. Cut them out, burnt them off, went to kind of extreme measures, which is it's ridiculous. This is this is truly why it's called a witch hunt. Mm-hmm. But even then, I'm like, you're cutting off your moles and all of this. I mean, you're creating scars on your body, which is also, mm-hmm, which also could be an indicator. Exactly. But yeah, I have I have birthmarks and moles that feel like most people do. Yeah. I don't know who could have passed this. That's why I think it's like the accused were publicly stripped. So it's just like shit. First off, yeah, I have to hide my body completely and hope I don't even get accused because then they'll find it and then they'll know I'm a witch. Or we'll think of a witch. Enrique Iglesias would not have stood a chance. Absolutely not. Actually, he he since had his mole removed. Did he? Yes. So there's an entire generation of Gen Z who doesn't know mole Enrique. Why did he do that? That was like his special thing. I think it was a cancer risk thing. Okay. Yeah. I think it was for health reasons, I think. Okay. I didn't know if it was just like an aesthetic thing. Yeah. Okay. I know. I thought it was sexy. It was anti-conic. I think we would fail this, but I don't know who would be able to pass this. True. I think the the thing about getting away with this one is just to not be accused in the first place because yeah. Lay low. Lay low. Mm-hmm. Because shit, I feel like it was just somebody looking for a reason. Absolutely. They don't like you. Uh-huh. And is there looking for anything? Just I think also men hunting women just that whole song and dance. Men were killed too. Mm-hmm. But we know it was predominantly targeting women. Mm-hmm. And something like publicly stripping a woman to examine her is absolutely meant to be demeaning. Absent to strip somebody of their power. So no minsting words about that. Yeah. This next test, the cursed touch witch test. This was another witch test that was used during the infamous Salem witch trials of 1692. It was called the touch test. Yeah. And this is kind of like just playing a game of tag. The assumption was that if somebody fell ill, because they'd been in contact with another person, but then were maybe like cured after they were touched again by that person, then that individual who touched them was a witch. Like this was just all about if you were touched by somebody and something strange befell you, then the person who touched you was probably a witch. And on the other hand, if the victim was not cured, after a second touched by that person, then that person must be innocent. Again, this is just crazy wack. Do we made it up logic? Mm-hmm. Illness spreads by being in contact with someone. So it's a chance that that was just the uneducated, you know, interpretation was, oh, we didn't understand germ theory and you renewed this person and you got sick. Yeah, especially the time before germ theory. Yeah. I consider myself to be somebody who I wash my hands often. If I am sick, I like don't go out to be near people. Mm-hmm. So I think I could pass this test. I consider myself a dirty person in a sense of like, I mean, I shower regularly, sometimes twice a day, just depending, but like, I mean, if I'm sick now since COVID, I will like, if I'm on an airplane, I'll like wear a mask now before I never did that or if I don't want to get sick traveling, I'll wear a mask now. That's stuff I never used to do. So maybe I would actually pass. I think I've bit, I've gotten better in my ways, but before I was dirty, I was like, yeah, just touching everything and then I put my fingers in my mouth. That is a bad habit I have. Yeah, and I will say I think society at large has gotten a little bit better about this kind of self-protection and protecting other people to an extent. So yeah, I do think we would pass this. Okay, I do too. And after thinking and talking through it, yes. We have some more tests after a word from our sponsors. I do not have any ideas for Christmas persons. Okay, well, me neither. So we are in this together, but the good thing is that uncommon goods makes holiday shopping genuinely fun, with thousands of one-of-a-kind gifts for everyone on your list, Jess, all in one place. Uncommon goods really does have something for everybody, especially for, you know, some of your weird relatives, my weird uncle Steve, who literally has everything. Uncommon goods looks for products that are high quality, unique, and often handmade or made in the US. Many are crafted by independent artists and small businesses, making every gift feel meaningful and truly one-of-a-kind. What have you found for Uncle Steve on there, Jess? Well, this one is actually for a friend of mine who is a huge book nerd. This beautiful handmade in India, actually, book Christmas ornament, and she collects Christmas ornaments as well. So I'm like, this is the absolutely perfect gift for her, but it's beautifully made with beads. I think she's going to frickin' love it. And when you shop at uncommon goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. Many of their products are handmade and small batches, so they will sell out. And with every purchase you make at uncommon goods, they give back $1 to a non-profit partner of your choice. They've donated more than $3.1 million to date. Don't wait. Cross those names off your list before the rush. To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommon goods.com/30morbid. That's uncommon goods.com/30morbid for 15% off. Uncommon goods were all out of the ordinary. And we're back. What's the next test, Jess? Residing the Bible flawlessly from memory. She's uh-oh. Uh-oh. This is troublesome because anyone who was a witch would not be able to speak words from the Bible. And as such, a frequent witch test required the accused to recite prayers from memory. Okay, that's, you know, I mean, yeah. It can be a struggle. It's gonna be a struggle. I think I can, there's two prayers from my Catholic upbringing that I could still recite, I think, but that's it. Yeah, I get probably to do the Lord's Prayer. That's one of them, yeah. Probably knock that out, but not solidly. I don't know. Because also, there was no room for margin of error, right? You could not stumble over words that would be perceived as guilt. You could not stutter. Oh yeah, so yeah. So if you had a speech impediment, you're screwed, right? Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. You are. Also, if you just couldn't read, right? Yeah. God. And a lot of people were peasants who just couldn't read in general. True. I would assume, I don't know if also verbally prayers, because like, there's people that back then, I'm sure couldn't read, but also you knew the Lord's Prayer because you had to say it so much. But yes, there are so many narratives that, first off, no such thing as which is back then, but just to even get, it's like, so many ways which this has clearly gone wrong and would make somebody look like a witch when it's not because you're saying, even if they memorized it, you're being accused of being a witch publicly and brought out and to recite this in front of your neighbors. And you might be a little bit nervous to do that. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And those who knew the Bible by heart, yeah, we're not safe from accusations of devil worship either. Yeah, there's the case of the Reverend George Burroughs, who was accused of witchcraft and Salem. He recited from the Bible perfectly, but then they twisted it on him. They were like, oh, that's a trick by the devil. And it's like, what? I did what you asked me to do. They still executed him. Of course. I think they just wanted to execute who's They wanted to execute this next one is oh well first of all could we pass this one? Mm-hmm. I think I'd stutter. I do I think there would be things I think I like if I were to do the Lord's Prayer right now hold on our father out and I'll be the name gives us a birthday, but I don't know if they haven't They've read us we forgive those who trust us against us. Oh, wait hold on who trust us against us. What's the next word? Need to lead us not into temptation, but deliver some evil. See, I don't know if I'm not I didn't pass then. Uh-oh I think I could have knocked it out. I think you could have. Yeah, but who knows if that's gonna be the one they give me. That's true We have to see shit. We don't know. We'll find out I guess. Yeah, this next one is a Monty Python favorite weighing the witch against the Bible Yeah, in medieval Europe most towns had weight stations where traders and sellers measured their crops or livestock before taking them to the market as Which hunting spread and popularity these weigh houses started to get used to weigh people and this wasn't like Oh, I'm waiting to the doctor for my physical. No. This was to try to assess you out as being a witch the idea was that which is we're very light Since they could ride on broomsticks and float on water. Yeah, and then the logic here and I use logic in quotation marks very loosely Was that if a person was lighter than a stack of Bibles than therefore they must be a witch. Okay, so like a baby Yes, a baby like the idea was that oh, you're so light you can fly you can float So then we're gonna stack up these five Bibles you should be lighter than them. Mm-hmm Sometimes the operators of certain weight sites were bribed by the accusers to get the results They wanted which led to weight sites being deemed fair versus corrupt. Yeah, you started to learn like oh, this weight site They're actually doing stuff legit. They're not getting paid off or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you with this one. I'm passing this one Hey, oh, yeah, girl Both heavier than a stack of Bibles absolutely like I was like there then you're targeting babies and small children, you know Like that's that's wild one more one more test Pricking the accused until they bleed and this is kind of like the mole birthmarks and scar one for the basic idea was that the devil Would leave a mark on the witch's body if the devil had a pact with them the suspected witch was stripped naked and subjected to The cruel practice of pricking whereby they were repeatedly pricked with a special needle and this was because witch hunters claim That sometimes evil markings were hidden so they could only be uncovered by pricking and scratching It's like a cat scratch where at first you don't see it, but then as it swells Mm-hmm and gets irritated then you see the scratch. I don't know how this works I don't know either. I'm having trouble like fully understanding it Witch hunters also claimed that a witch would feel no pain during this agonizing trial and poked at the accused until They found a less sensitive spot. Well, let me tell you women are born with pain women Yes, are spent our whole lives with pain. Absolutely. Women get so good at just managing pain and handling it Yeah, I agree completely in this you should pretend like you're in pain I guess I don't know like if you didn't bleed then you were declared a witch But you might not bleed from a simple scratch or prick. I don't know. That's very true Yeah, and then additionally if the accused yet didn't bleed from the sodeal then they were declared a witch this spawned an entire Exploited industry based around skin pricking and so these professional pickers were con men who would look for sensitive spots in their targets I don't think this one has any validity. I don't think any of them have any validity But this one especially feels like gosh, we are really really hunting for people here on dangerous ground Mm-hmm all of it actually though. I will say that I do think you and I could have passed most of these tests I think so too I also want to know like who thought of this stuff like who was like ah this is the test to use to find the witches Oh, it's it's such insanity and again. It's setting up people to fail. Yeah, it's just arbitrary and Completely barbaric very much so and while I know that we would pass these tests. I am a witch Yes, and that's part of the reason why you pass them because of your trickery. Yeah Correct. And on that note witchy Jessica Do you mind giving doing giving us a good Halloween cackle? Oh my god. Let me try and do my best. Okay, here we go Will you do yours after sure? Okay Okay, did you do it? Did you not hear it? No, the the mic gated it so I couldn't hear any of it But I guess I'll hear it in the edit. Oh my god. I'm sure it was amazing Okay, mine Okay, yours gated it just a tad. Oh, okay, mine was really last I'll have to listen to that to know for now. Hope you're all having a very happy spooky season and bad bye Bad bye I wrote a little song to remind you choice hotels get you more of the experiences you value the cambia hotel's got it all Bring a date to squad or even your mom broke direct at choice hotels dot com Introducing Pandora's holiday collection this season celebrate the ones you know by heart with a gift that says it all From engraveable pieces to festive charms to lab-grown diamonds Pandora's jewelry is made for the ones who inspire you Who've been there through it all give a piece that says exactly what words can't? Pandora more than a gift shop new styles in store or online at Pandora dot net