Can't Help Falling in Lauv (the interview)

Recommendations can be great. Maybe someone recommended this podcast, and here you are. But home projects are a little different. If the podcast isn't your thing, you might lose a few minutes from your day, but if you hire your cousin's neighbor to mount your TV, you might end up with a lopsided screen and wall damage. I know a guy isn't a good strategy for your home. That's why thumbtack works so well. It matches you with top rated local pros, with photos, reviews, and credentials, all in one convenient place. For your next home project, try thumbtack. Hire the right pro today. Welcome to Switched On Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. Nate is out for two weeks, and so I'm going to bring you interviews with two of my favorite new artist wildties away. This week I speak with Louth, a multi-talented songwriter, producer, and artist who has a unique capacity to dress up a sad song and happy clothing. Louth is debuting his first full-length studio album How I'm Feeling. The singles on here all have me bopping my head while simultaneously crying my eyes out, a twisted duality that is a staple of Louth's music. I think you're going to really enjoy hearing how he makes his work. In fact, he can be so passionate that there will be some exuberant but totally harmless cursing in this episode. Alright, here's Louth. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding, and today I am joined by. Hey, what's up? My name is Louth. I'm an artist singer, songwriter, producer. So I want to jump right in and start with a song. Hey, so your song "Fuck I'm Lonely" dresses up a sad song in happy clothing. Why do you set up this contrast? I feel like it's actually a subconscious thing I do. People say that a lot. If you look at my lyrics, there's a lot of songs that sound or that read as if they're sad, but I feel like somehow they end up feeling uplifting, which I don't really know how it happens. It just kind of is a subconscious thing for me. So I find that this song, your lyrics are extremely vulnerable. Do you feel that putting words to music gives you more safety to say things you might not otherwise say out loud? Yes, absolutely. Actually, something I've been doing a lot recently that is a great example of that is this year. I've started freestyling. And I've found that if I just pick up a mic and without any thought, just put words to melody or even without melody, just freestyle rap, I find myself saying, "I'm doing things that are way more direct and honest." And they weren't put together in my head. They just kind of come out, which is honestly my new favorite way to write. Has that made it into your songwriting? I think it's what we're here on this album. Yeah, actually, it's going to be stuff. I mean, a little bit into the current stuff. I feel like I've had moments like that when I write, but now a lot of the newer stuff I'm working on that's actually going to be beyond this album is heavily freestyled, almost 100% freestyled. That's interesting. So this idea, the sort of the intentionality of varying some more challenging words in sweeter upbeat music, this is happening, as you said, maybe unintentionally. For me as a listener, it does actually, I think, give me more access into some more challenging sad feelings. Okay. That's actually a cool perspective. Right. Yeah. But what's interesting is I find in your production of this song that there might be clues that maybe things aren't as bright and curious they seem. How would you describe the sounds in this intro? I don't know. Kind of crunchy and weird. Yeah. I made this beat in an airport. We'll have fun in an airplane, have fun in an airport when I was on tour. Yeah. And it was actually my first time using, not to nerd out, but using Ableton Live. It was the first beat I ever made. Yeah. And it was very much just like a random process. Like I kind of just like, I think my process is a producer. And that's usually the same thing as a song that I really can't think. I just have to like find a sound and be cool and like accidentally find another sound and be like, oh, that's kind of cool. And then like for this one, I like sampled one of my old vocals and pitched it up and reversed it. Oh, fun. It's all just like, honestly, a bunch of string of accidents is that I look at it. Yeah. It's weird. So that even if it is coming potentially accidentally, I feel like the production matches the lyric here because you have to have this sort of like tropical upbeat sounding, kalimba-ish sort of sound. And yet the whole thing has been distorted and crunched in sort of disassociated. And so even underneath this happy production is like something's a little bit off. And I think that resonates with what's going on in the lyric. Okay. I appreciate that. Yeah. I've actually no one's ever said that to me. I really appreciate that. I want to call attention to one lyric in particular that a listener of Switched On Pop wanted to dig into. Okay. I'm curious. This is Katie Meadows, Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Indiana University. Hi, Nick Charlie and Lowe. Hi. I'm calling him with a question about why one of your lines is so clever. So you've got this line. It's been me myself and why did you go? I knew she was going to bring up that line. The fact that it sets you up to expect one word and you get another just completely tickled me. And I wanted to figure out whether there's a sort of category for this kind of line. So one of my friends suggested it might be a mind rhyme where what's going on is a line that sets you up to hear a rhyme, to expect a rhyme, but the rhyme is sort of left unsaid. The basic question is just, is there a way of explaining why I'm so tickled by this, why I think this line is so clever? I would love any insight you have into that. Thanks. Bye. Wow. Okay. The funny thing about that line, I'll just be literally totally transparent. I write with a couple of my best friends very often and we were writing the song and we had a lot of it shaped. And I actually think it was one of my best friends. His name is Michael Matosik that he suggested that line. So that was actually a line that came from him. Yeah, which is very interesting. And but I think a lot of music is like playing with expectation, right? Like sometimes you satisfy an expectation or sometimes you like slightly modify that expectation. And I think this is a case where it's like slightly modified. So you're like, okay, you're hearing it's been me myself and you're like, okay, you're finishing the line in your head and I and you hear why and you're like, oh, now I'm interested again and you feel the rest of it. That's sort of the best way I think I would explain it. Katie called this a mind rhyme, which is something I had never heard of that. Right. Sometimes things that just are happening on the fly, there's something that explains it in the background. So here's Wikipedia calls mind rhyme is the suggestion of a rhyme, which is left unsaid and must be inferred by the listener. So I went on Twitter and asked her some examples from folks of great mind rhymes. I'm curious. Sadie Dingfelder gave us the primordial example from the children's song Miss Suzy. Okay. So you can fill in the line. Miss Suzy had a steamboat, the steamboat had a bell. Miss Suzy went to heaven and the steamboat went to hell. Low operator. Oh. Oh. Right. So you actually, you get the rhyme, but it's a, I guess you would call that a, maybe a slant rhyme. Yeah. That's interesting. I went a little bit deeper and as it are listeners with mind rhymes and it turns out that probably the most common version of a mind rhyme is called a teasing rhyme. Okay. So a teasing rhyme is, we hear them a lot. We usually some kind of inferred rhyme that allows some in you endow to go unsaid, but predicted. So I thought this was a really fun one. This is from Robert Venable. The lyric that sticks out to me is the song Mr. Brightside by the killers. The lyric says, now they're going to bed and my stomach is sick and it's all in my head, but she's touching his chest now. I love that. And I'm pretty sure we could all predict where that was going. You know what? I actually never have thought that for some reason because I think the emotion of the melody and the way it continues into it, I never wanted to complete that lyric in my head. I never really got that inclination. The song shifts. We can hear it. I think it's because the rhyme continues across into the next section or what do you think of it? It's cadence changes. You know what I mean? If his cadence has stayed the same and he repeated the rhythm, then I think I would expect that word. Yeah. Time out, Dick, I'm sure. I keep this PG. I mean, we're talking about Dick. I'm just joking. Because his cadence changes, so you kind of get distracted. I focus like reshifts as a listener personally. Okay. So here's another example. This is from Genevieve Koski. So one of my favorite lyrical flerishes is when a song seems like it's about to drop an f-bomb, but then drops a near rhyme instead. The most recent and fun example I can think of is the song Locomotive by Miranda Lambert, who is very adept at writing songs that say FU without using those exact words. And the song feels like an explicit or not. is the case maybe nod to that fact. ♪ I've been down on my look at a heart like a truck ♪ ♪ Though I ain't even up on my hunt ♪ ♪ And we're ready to slay ♪ ♪ It gives me way ♪ - Interesting. - I've been done on my luck and I ain't giving up, got a heart like a truck. I'm a Hummybird ready to say. - Yeah. - Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah, 'cause I was sort of expecting that to come. As she says, I ain't giving up. - Yeah. - I expect it there. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I think because also the attitude is so strong that it makes sense. But at the same time, I feel like if she did say it, it would actually make it kind of corny. - Oh, totally. - It's too, be too in character or something. - Yeah, in your song, you're not afraid of the innuendo. Like the first word of the song. - Yeah. - And your use of this idea of mine rhyme isn't to avoid saying something. It's accomplishing something else. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Let's just hear it again, actually. - Yeah. ♪ I'm lonely, I'm lonely ♪ ♪ I'm lonely as fuck ♪ ♪ Come on, come on, come on ♪ ♪ Come on, it's been me myself ♪ ♪ I feel why, 'cause you know ♪ ♪ 'Cause you know ♪ ♪ I'm lonely, I'm lonely ♪ ♪ I'm lonely, I'm lonely ♪ ♪ I'm so sad ♪ - For me, this is doing something very different than avoiding a word. - Yeah, I agree. - It's almost as if the internal narrator in your head is like, trying to sing this song, but as being interrupted by a man's line. In the same way that you can't get this person out of your head. You can't even finish the words that you wanna say. - No, totally, it's like, it's been me and myself. And why did you go? It's interrupting the start with another one. I think absolutely. - And it wouldn't even be appropriate to say, "I," because this song is all about "we," or a broken "we." - Yeah. - I wanna move on to another song from your album that I really enjoy. I wanna talk about "Meet It" with Lany. - Yes. - So in contrast to "Fuck I'm Lonely," the song "Meet It" is about asserting strength in a bad relationship. Let's hear it right now. - Yeah. ♪ Don't piss me right now ♪ ♪ Don't tell me that you need me ♪ ♪ Don't show up at my house ♪ ♪ Oh, caught up in your feelings ♪ ♪ Don't run me around and around ♪ ♪ Don't fill me up just to let me down ♪ ♪ Just to let me down ♪ ♪ Down, down, down ♪ - So this is interesting, 'cause I feel like you've kind of reversed scripted a little bit. Tell me what's going on in this track. - Basically, it's saying, like if you don't really love me, then stop pretending 'cause you're just like messing with me. It's basically what the song is saying. - Yeah, and this is a track where you're standing up for yourself. - Yeah. - And a relationship. - Funny thing for me. So to be totally honest, I wrote this song from a perspective. I don't do this very often. I usually write from literally like how I feel. I imagined how somebody else would feel about me. And it was actually a therapeutic process 'cause it was me admitting to myself that there was something wrong in this relationship I was in where I wasn't as invested as this other person. And I was kind of imagining how they might respond to me, which makes me out to be kind of a bad person. But it's just the honest truth about that one. Yeah, and I know Paul from Lanye related to it in a different way. I think he related to it from more of a direct. I think he was experiencing the whatever that other side of it. Yeah. - This is a different sort of perspective for myself. - Yeah, yeah. I mean, because most of my songs were just straight up like me expressing how I feel. But for some reason that particular day, it was in like New York City when I started the song. And I, yeah, I was like, you know, seeing somebody at the time. And I was kind of like, a lot of my songs were like really the way of figuring out how I feel. And I think this song was sort of like me admitting to myself that something wasn't right, you know? But sort of from my side, like what I feel like if I was criticizing myself, what I would say, you know? - I wanna talk about how you deliver that line in the chorus. Let's listen to it one more time. ♪ Feel it's on run, me, round and round ♪ ♪ Feel me up just to let me down ♪ - Hey, there's a lot that I like about this vocal delivery. - Okay. - So the thing that I think really works here is that you basically stand up, or I should say, the narrator is standing up for themselves. And they're doing so by singing the same note repeatedly. And I think that there's sort of a strength in that as all of these minor chords, which sound somewhat tumultuous, are moving underneath them. Doesn't matter what's shifting. That person is saying, hey, I'm here. And I don't need you. It's totally chill. And then there's a nice little moment of what we call text painting at the end, where. ♪ Down, down, down, down ♪ ♪ Just to let me down, down, down, down ♪ That vibe was inspired by a little like 1989 Taylor Swift. - I'm here in that on the track. - Okay, cool. - Yeah, I mean, that's one of my favorite pop albums of all time. Maybe perhaps my favorite. There's just so many songs that are just, I don't know, they're like the perfect blend of like extreme catchy poppiness, but then there's something about the lyric that just feels so authentic that it doesn't bother me. 'Cause sometimes when songs sound too directly like, I don't know how to explain it a certain way, it just feels like there's not really a soul in them, but like I feel like that every song has, even though it's very, very easily consumed, there's something like deeper going on there. And that's kind of like when I was writing the song, how I felt. - Yeah. - She's also one to play a lot with melody, which she's gonna write melodies that are gonna soar and move all over the place and at the right time, she's just gonna hit one note when something important needs to be said. - Yeah, you know who I'm also inspired by like an artist like Drake, who will keep a flow going for, I don't know, like an entire verse, or long, 30 seconds a minute like in some of his songs, and it's literally because you just get so locked into the melody, if the lyrics weren't important and weren't saying something, you kind of a tune out or you get bored, but if every lyric is like really telling a story and like pushing you forward, I think like the continuous repetition of the melody is like really nice. - Yeah, he is sort of like, I can't even do it. He's so good at that. - They become these infinite hooks, the melody just gets lodged in your mind. We wrote about in our book about the song God's Plan, in which everything is just this, but it's the same little melody repeated throughout. Post Malone does this a lot as well. And it allows you, I think to provide a song, you have more narrative progression, but you never get lost. Like you're always stuck in that hook and you're gonna hum that hook. - 100%. 'Cause sometimes when you have two dance of a lyric and the melody's changing too much, it's like overwhelming and you don't really have grounding, you know? So I think it's cool when you, when you have to lyric is really important, just kind of keeping the melody in a similar place. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. - What's the first step as a podcaster? - Well, you have to ask lots of questions. - I'm Maria Sherapova and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. - I have a few pretty tough questions for you. - Okay. - Ready? - Ready. - Do not sugarcoat something for me. - No. - No. - No. - Live into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us, new episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app. - Hey, so we're not paying taxes this year, right? - Until the Pentagon passes one damn audit, we shouldn't pay anymore taxes. - People don't wanna pay taxes anymore because they don't trust the way the government is spending and tracking our money. - Americans are fed up with paying taxes, and I know, I know, but hear me out. Americans are extra fed up with paying taxes lately, according to some gallop polling and some posting. But are we being shortsighted? - I think that it's important to have a government. I think the humans tried anarchy for quite a long time and it didn't work so well. A lot of people got hit over the head with rocks. We didn't have a whole lot of economic development. Almost everyone agrees that the United States should have a military to protect it from foreign invasion that we should have, law enforcement, firefighting, schools, et cetera. - Anti-taxers and where this could all be heading on today's sprained, dropping every week day afternoon. - So that we're talking about for this idea of what brings a listener into a song. I wanna actually bring a question from one of our listeners who had something they wanted to ask you. - Cool. - To me, you're one of the most present and defining pop stars of today, capitalizing on all of the intricacies in the way people interact with music. In the same vein as does Charlie XCX. You consistently make extremely catchy bobs, release songs on your own schedule, collaborate with a myriad of pop artists and are extremely vulnerable in your music. Just how conscious are these decisions? And do you have a sense of how you're shaped by/how you've been impacted by the way music is currently being consumed? - Wow, that's, but first of all, I'm gushing. Second of all, just amazing. There's a lot to impact there. I feel like it's actually not conscious for me. It's kind of just the way I am. I get asked a lot about the vulnerability aspect and for me, I think the best way I would explain it is I just feel more comfortable when I open up to everybody that I meet. 'Cause I think it's some type of defense mechanism where I'm always imagining, what do they think about me? Who do they think I am? Do I come off a certain way? And my way of giving people a full scope and killing all questionable expectations is just saying, "Here's everything." So that's what I subconsciously do in my music. But it's not really the thought out thing to do that. And then the collabs also, they've always been very like, just kind of natural. Like with Troy, we just got into the studio after we met a few times. And we didn't even talk about doing a collab. We were just, I was working on my album and he was interested in writing on some outside projects and we were like, cool, it's right together. And then, you know, about halfway through, I'm so tired. Like I was like, yo, do you want to sing on this? And, you know, obviously he did. - Let's take a listen to the choice of Vaughn collaboration I'm so tired. ♪ I'm so tired of so tired of so much ♪ ♪ I'm tired of so much tired of so much ♪ ♪ Just wanna go home, wanna go home, wanna go home ♪ ♪ So tired of so much tired of so much ♪ ♪ I'm tired of so much tired of so much ♪ ♪ Just wanna go home, wanna go home, wanna go home ♪ ♪ I'm so tired of so much ♪ - Hey, what's your beef with love songs? - Uh, I love love songs. That's the thing I do. But I feel like when you're in that place that you're like really miss somebody and you're just sick of it and everything reminds you of them. And you're just like, I'm fucking dying. I'm just tired of hearing this. - Yeah. - So that's kind of where that one came from. - Yeah, I feel like it comes along in a line in the verse quite effectively. - Oh yeah. ♪ Party ♪ ♪ Tryin' my best to me somebody ♪ ♪ Everybody around me's fallen in love ♪ ♪ To our song ♪ ♪ I yeah ♪ - That's the worst, someone's stealing your song. - Yeah. - The thing about that is that wasn't even like literal. Like sometimes I feel like I like deliver, like sometimes my lyrics are actually super literal. Like exact experiences that I like just, you know, can remember. And sometimes it's like almost like I know the feeling I wanna deliver and then like somehow the words come out to deliver that feeling. And I feel like that one is very much like, I have this like one image of, you're drunk and you have like a very, I don't know, like dissatisfying kiss or somebody and just like what am I even doing? And then there's people around you who are actually enjoying themselves. And you're like, this is just stupid. I don't know, and you just feel like ashamed and just bummed. Yeah, so that kinda came at a time of my life when I was trying to get over somebody. So. - I feel like a lot of silly love songs can be about trivial relationships. But this is interesting. You're kind of upset at those songs because in that experience, you're wanting something real. - Yeah, exactly. I want something real, but you're not getting it. And you're just like, stop reminding me that I don't have this right now. Those songs are like, what you listen to when you're falling in love or whatever, maybe you listen to it when you miss somebody and you're trying to reminisce and when you fall in love, which is actually how I wrote, I like me better, for example. That was actually a reminisce in song. I wrote it after a four year relationship I was in. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - It's about when we first fell in love, but I wrote it four years later. You know? So sometimes I like listening to a song that kind of is like a reminiscent vibe as opposed to like in the moment vibe. - Interesting. So the song takes you back to a different experience. - Yeah, yeah. It took me back to how I felt, especially at the beginning of the relationship where I just remembered, I was like, you know, beginning of college is such a transformative time and I just remember meeting this person and she was, you know, in a lot of ways so different than me and she gave me so many new experiences and I feel like built me up into a stronger man, you know, honestly. I've been to a more confident person and I just remember even though the relationship didn't end up being the right one for the rest of my life, at that time I was like, I like myself better and I'm with you. - What are some of the other ways that this comes across musically or in the lyric in this track? - Wait, what do you mean exactly? - Oh, that feeling of almost like saying, thank you to this person who was extremely important. - I think there's that ending part where I was like, ♪ Look who you made me ♪ (upbeat music) - That like background vocal, that's like all falsetto. That one, I feel like for me, it's sort of like, thank you for making me into the person that I am today. - Yeah. You recently announced that you'll be going on a world tour. - Yes. - And you're calling it. - How I'm feeling. - I feel like I'm just gonna throw a prediction out there. This is a great on-core track. This is the like, everyone good night. You've heard a bunch of love songs, now we're done with the love songs. - Yeah, we always, we actually always in the on-core, we always do, I like me better. We do, I do one of my other songs never, not. At least that's what we've done so far. And then I like me better, just 'cause it's like that. - If you go to Change of Pocetless, what other themes do you explore in your album? - Well, there's three songs with the word, or some iteration of the word lonely in them. Two of them. - Sorry to laugh. - Yeah, no, but it's real. - No, no, it's very, it's funny though. There's also really fun songs. I have a song about my favorite bar in North Hollywood, literally, it's the title of it is the name of the bar. I have a song with my dog's name, Billy, it's on the album that sort of like, it uses this device of this dog growing up and making it very cute, but it's actually somewhat autobiographical, but also somewhat fantasy, which until this album, like I've never really done that before, what else is there on the album? There's a lot of different, there's obviously like, I have my songs like Drugs in the Internet and Sad Forever that are sort of more so about like my mental health and kind of like how internet culture affects me. - You speak openly about that. - Yeah, yeah, definitely that one, that's very important to me and yeah, Sad Forever. But yeah, there's really a lot of different, I wish I could, I wish I had a track list in front of me so I could recall every single vibe, but there's so many different vibes on it. - What about a production vibe? What are those kind of sounds that people are gonna hear translating those feelings? - To be honest, well, part of why I wanted to, so the whole creative behind how I'm feeling is I created these like six different characters that are all different like emotional atmospheres that are the different parts of my personality. And I wanted to do that because the album sonically is people here are so diverse. Like there's songs that are straight up sound like rock songs or songs that are, you know, like kind of like what people have heard from me so far a little bit. There's straight up acoustic songs, there's songs that have, there's like a song that has a little bit of like a Latin flavor. There's like so many different vibes. So I'm really excited about it. 'Cause I've always felt like when I first started producing like and trying to be an artist and being a songwriter and producer, people will always be like, you have to be like limited to this one sound. But I feel like music is so much more free today where a lot of the artists that I respect the most that I think are especially contemporary artists, they're like, I don't care about genres. Like I just make whatever I feel like. And that's sort of, because I moved around so much growing up and because I listen to so many different types of, so many, so many, so many different types of music. Is that the right way to say that? I, that's kind of like the way I like to create this. Like to not really box myself in. - Do you think about how you, so if you're gonna sort of disregard genre, do you think about how you pair the sort of sound of the song with a particular lyric? Are those that disregard for genre so that you can convey different emotions and feelings? - Yeah, I think usually it just kind of subconsciously happens. Like, or a lot of times what I'll do is I'll write a song without producing it at all. And then I figure out what's like the, the right kind of dressing for it, you know what I mean? Like there's a few songs in the album that I wrote just on piano and, but they ended up turning out very different from each other in the way they sound. And they are depending on what like the lyric was saying. But sometimes it's just totally subconscious. Like usually it's just kind of like, I feel like I'll start a track and like I won't really think about what it is that the vibe is, but I think naturally it kind of puts me in the world. And that's kind of why I write for them. - One example that I enjoyed was your song "Changes." - I love that song. ♪ Changes, they might drive you rough and same ♪ ♪ It's killing you to stay the same ♪ ♪ It's all gonna work out ♪ ♪ It's all gonna work out someday ♪ ♪ Moments living with their eyes have opened ♪ ♪ You've been thinking about these changes ♪ ♪ It's all gonna work out ♪ ♪ It's all gonna work out someday ♪ - It's a very simple song and it's production. It's primarily just piano. What I like here is that the chord changes, I think are really sort of evoking the emotional experience of the song and that just when you sort of expect the thing to resolve, it keeps on moving, like it keeps stretching out and it's a slow build of a song. So I feel like the underlying harmony, even though it is a simple piano, does match what you're trying to say. - I appreciate that. I've never really thought about that. Honestly, it's cool to hear that. Yeah, that was one of the ones that I just wrote straight up on piano and then that production process was also just kind of accidental. Like we recorded it with two iPhones, one take the piano, so literally just voice memo. And then we pulled it into logic and then I was just like kind of like, I use like a same 808 sound quite frequently. And I just like pulled that up and then I recorded the hand claps and that's, then there's a kick drum and then there's a couple other percussion sounds and that's it. - Boom, done. - If things are happening so often intuitively, how do you know when you're done? - That's a hard one because like especially in the mix process and then I'll go back and I'll be like, no, no, no, it should be this way. And then I hear it and I'm like, no, I was wrong. I think I just get to a point where I'm like, does this song, especially if I tune out and I'm not listening actively, if I'm listening passively, does it deliver the feeling subconsciously the way I feel like it should? And I think that's when I know that it's done. I mean, some songs get closer to the perfect image in my head that I have. Some songs they just never quite do, but I feel like once I'm ready to let it go, it's because I feel like it's delivering the feeling. So. - Before we wrap up, is there any other musical experience moment, song that you'd wanna highlight? - Ooh, Mara and Lundidas. (upbeat music) ♪ To get high but we don't know how to come down ♪ - Yeah, I think it's probably my favorite song on the album. I have a tattoo with the title, Modern Loneliness. - Modern Loneliness, which is, yeah, one of the three songs with Loneliness and the title. That one is really special to me in so many ways. I mean, one, just like the message behind it is sort of in the vein of like drugs in the internet, a little bit, but like, way classier, I would say. - What is modern about Loneliness? - I got to appear to town in my life where I became so obsessed with like the internet and like being an artist and, you know, Instagram and stuff. And I think a lot of people go through this where they, I realize that my actual friendships are suffering and I'm like, why do I feel so alone? And there's a few lyrics in the song like, there's one, I think my favorite lyric in the song is Modern Loneliness, we're never alone, but always depressed. Love my friends to death, but I never call and I never text. I love love my friends to death, but I never call it, I never text. Like, weird dichotomy of like, I swear, I love the people around me like I swear I do, but I don't take action to actually deepen our relationship and it's like, why? Like, why do I do that? And it's sort of like, you're the cause of your own loneliness in some ways, but I think we get so addicted to this experience even of like social media that is very like triggers rewards centers in your brain, but doesn't really do something for your soul. And it's almost like this more convenient way to get satisfaction, you know, chemically, I think in your brain, then it is to sit down for hours and have a deep conversation with your friend and finally get to the place that feels like amazing and euphoric, you know? And I think that's a lot of like my, the place I come from in terms of like loneliness is like, is that? - I think that will speak to people beyond just from the experience of being an artist. There was a book that talked about this issue called Alone Together. And it's very much that kind of vibe. - Right, it's like everyone is at home in their beds scrolling through social media, wishing that they were with somebody else. And so you're all collectively doing this thing, which is not bringing greater joy or happiness. - Sorry sad. But that song sonically, I would say it actually feels uplifting. Like there's a lot of sad lyrics, but-- - So is there hope in it? - The way, yeah, there's hope in it. And I think the way we're gonna shoot the music video is, well, not I think the way we're gonna shoot the music video brings a lot of hope to it. And like sonically, it becomes this like really big massive chorus and massive post chorus at the end. That's just like super triumphant, big gang vocals and it feels like, oh, it feels like this alone together, but everybody's singing and kind of like experiencing the same experience of modern loneliness together. - Oh. - Yeah, so that's a beautiful thing, so. - Yeah, cool, sweet. - My debut album, I've put out a lot of music so far, but my debut album, How I'm Feeling, it's out on March 6th, 21 Songs, I'm really excited, a lot of different vibes. - Cool. - And after the album comes out, I'm going on tour for forever, this year, World Tour. And if you wanna buy tickets, you can buy tickets on my website, so yeah, thank you. - Cool. - This has been really fun. - Thank you, thank you for having me. I've never really dug into something like this, so I appreciate it. - This episode of Switched On Pop was produced by me, Charlie Harding. We have an amazing team making the show. Our producers are Megan Lubin and Bridget Armstrong. Rending with Farland, Mixes, edits and masters, the show. Our executive producers are Bridget Nelson and Nishok Harwap. And we're a proud member of the Vox Media Podcast Network. You can find us anywhere on social media at Switched On Pop. We love to chat with you. We've got backup episodes at switchedonpop.com where you can also check out our book, if you love this show. We think you're gonna love the book. And if it's a podcast that you're looking for, I'll be back again next week with an interview with one of my favorite bands, they're called Overcoats. Come check it out, I'll see you then. Thanks for listening. (upbeat music)