Can Jets and Giants Fans Glean Hope from the Knicks’ Championship Run?

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. My name is Danny Heifetz. Shield Kapati is on a well-deserved vacation. So I'm going to talk with the Ringer Zone show on fantasy about the giants, the jets, the state of New York flip-ball, and whether we should believe in either of these teams that have tormented us for the last 10 years. Stick around. My name is not Shield Kapati. I'm the host of the Ringer Fantasy football show and I have the pleasure of being joined by the one and only Sean Fantasy, host of the big picture, author of the excellent sub-stack projections and a newly optimistic jets fan. Sean, how you doing, man? Danny, I'm doing well. I'm doing well for a variety of reasons. I am newly optimistic and delighted to find out if you are as well. I am and I'm not. I'm actually very excited to do this with you because we're going to hit giants and jets in New York football. I know everyone's just dying to hear about New York football because they're the two worst football teams of the last 10 years by a lot. And yet constantly on mainstream television and prime time and everyone outside in New York hates it. And yet I think it's the perfect time to check in on these teams because they're literally by every metric and I have them all, the worst teams of the last decade. And yet I want to start, I want to go to the jets, the giants, everything about these teams going forward. But I think we actually have to start with the New York Knicks. And I'm half kidding. I know it's the Ringer NFL show and yet you used this phrase the other day. I don't remember what bought it was, but it was fantastic. You said that the next winning the NBA Finals changed my brain chemistry. And I genuinely think we need to start with how did the Knicks winning the Finals change to you viewing a jets fan? It showed me that anything is possible, that we can be happy, that there can be a salvation in all of this pain. And when I was talking about it, I talked about it a bit on the Zack Lo Show. I've written about it a bit in my sub-stack, which I don't think was the intention of the sub-stack to write about the NBA, but I did a little bit. And I think because, you know, I'm a little bit older than you and I've been watching sports for 44 years. And I have no memories of a championship and watching a team that I care about win it all, especially the circumstances under which they won it. It just made me a more hopeful person. It made me believe, no, you're a giants fan. And so you have experienced this genuine happiness and you did so at a young age. And I think that probably makes you a slightly different kind of man. Like I was I was stymied. I think that was becoming part of my, my, my persona at least and maybe even my personal experience through life. And now I feel like it's kind of washed away. But do you think that that's changed you at all having experienced two super balls? I mean, 100%. I think so. I mostly Yankees fans. So I grew up like the Yankees one for the first seven years. So I have the entitlement of a Yankees fan and I have the sports true naivety optimism of a giants fan who watched them beat the Patriots twice in the Super Bowl. Just give all the great upsets in history. Like, you know, Buster Dougans never got to fight Mike Tyson again. And the USA never beat the Soviet Union and hockey again. But like the giants getting a rematch and then winning that one too is just untruly unprecedented. So I have this like naive optimism. But the nicks felt like this other thing that was just I think they were, they felt completely removed from the league. They were a side show. I whenever it took them seriously. And yeah, I do feel that like it made me feel like a child again. It did make me feel like anything's possible. And I do think it changed the way I view my other teams. Like I absolutely do. Yeah, it's so funny because, you know, there's a typical breakdown amongst New York fans and Yankees, giants, nicks and Matt's Jets, nicks is those are the common affiliations. And there are two different kinds of people, I would say. They live their lives differently. They see the world differently. And it doesn't mean that there's not a lot of pain in being a Yankees fan or a Giants fan. I mean the Yankees now are coming up on 20 years since they want a world series, which is a long stretch. If you're a fan of that team, it's starting to feel a little bit more like the eighties for the Yankees now. And the giants obviously have been a tire fire for about 10 years now. But there's something very specific about. You could make the case that through the 2010s, the worst professional sports organization was the New York Nicks. And you could make the case that through the 2020s, the worst professional sports organization is the New York Jets. And if you've been watching the mets this year who are 15 games under 500 and are the laughing stock of Major League Baseball with a $380 million dollar payroll, there's just something that is also cosmic in that this stew of pain. You know, it's like a witch's cauldron, just full of my tears. And the next thing, you're 100% right. It changed something very dramatic. And what it's doing to me now is it's got me fantasizing about things that no reasonable person should when it comes to football because football is not basketball. That is a good point because the truth is it's easier to turn things around in football than in other sports probably because when you get the right, you know, the reality is all these things are ownership on down. And you have stubborn owners and impatient owners and stubborn owners stick with people and impatient ones don't. But the truth is most great teams rise and fall when they hire the right people and get out of the way by accident. The chiefs, I don't think their ownership is anything particularly amazing. They just hired me to read me. I'm really lucky that he was available. The Nicks got really lucky that they got Leon Rose and he put everything in place. And so I think you're right about football where the Jets, I'm very, I don't want to start with the Jets because the, you're a Jets fit. The Jets are in a fascinating spot. They just made three first drum picks. They have three first drum picks next year in 2027. Gina Smith's the quarterback. Aaron Glenn, I have a lot of thoughts on it as an in battle to say the least hit coach. I think the Jets, I'm curious what you think, but I wish the nutshell. I think the Jets are, I think ill prepared for the shortest of short terms and actually have an incredible runway to compete in the AFC East and the beat even long term. Is that a you feel pretty much I think let's like boil it down really, really, really simply. The team has been in search of a quarterback for give or take five years of Chad pettington 55 years. It's been a really, really long time since they felt like they've had the answer at the position. And it does come down to one or some combination of the three of those draft picks will be spent next spring on a quarterback. Gina Smith, I have some odd optimism around despite being 35 and having the worst season of his career last season. But there's no doubt that Darren Musgey, the team's GM is building towards has been building up to has been building for a young quarterback that they're going to draft. And I think because of some of my weird optimism, the idea of this team maybe being something closer to a seven and 10 team instead of a three and 14 team that they're going to have to make a trade to go up to go get a quarterback that they want. But everything else that they have been doing in terms of asset acquisition, in terms of draft strategy and terms of who they're retaining versus who they're trading away. They're building towards something that feels very normal. It feels coherent. That doesn't feel like it's being driven by the owner's young madden playing son. It doesn't feel like it's being driven by their historically meddling and incompetent owner, Woody Johnson. It does seem like there's a plan. I echo your thoughts about Aaron Glen, who I would love to be successful, but I think did a horrible job last year. I mean, I think he was the single worst coach in the sport last year, both in terms of in game decision making strategy and also how he engaged with it. A unique component, which is the New York media. He was not good at being an advocate for his team, his players or himself. I completely agree. I think Aaron Glen, frankly, is a nice guy who best seemed completely overmatched last year. I agree. The media aspect was bizarre. The refusal to share basic things. He was playing quarterback, the bewilderment. I agree. The in-game thing was concerning. A lot of West Coasters missed it. Do you remember that Jets Broncos London game? I think at the end of the first half, which I won't go into all the details, but basically at the end of the first half, the Jets changed their mind and if they were trying to score or not in the middle of the drive. They couldn't decide whether they wanted to go through 25 yards with a minute for a field goal or not. Then he changed their mind. In the middle, they were like, not going to run it out. Then they were going to try. I actually mean this. I think it's the worst end of half drive I've ever seen in my entire life. I've never seen anything like that at the high school level to decide to not to run it out and then be like, actually, we want to field goal. But everything about it, I think, is a mess. I think Aaron Glen, I have no confidence in, to be honest. I think he's a somewhere between a lame duck and a patsy for this coming season. I have no confidence in him and the clock management, the personnel, but also the way that the season transitioned. I think the Jets, good for you to see in a great draft, but the season ended and the Jets, the Jets already have changed half their coaching staff and half their players from one year ago. But the season ended. Three weeks went by, which is an eternity in an off season. Then the Jets, Aaron Glen went to Woody Johnson's house, the owner of the Jets in West Palm Beach, comes back and fires seven assistant coaches, which is one third of the staff three weeks after the season ends. That is never done. It is not done. You have all season. You fire people like one or two days after the season ends, which to me, it means Woody is meddling in some things. And I think Aaron Glen was straight up told that you have to be better this season you're fired, which I think happened to Robert Salon 2024 when they were super desperate and got to Vante. I think it happened in 2019 when they gave out the levy on bail and 120 million guaranteed. Like what do you guys this thing of giving people like a one year runway, they make all these reckless moves, he gives them a budget and then puts the next people in a hole for the next administration. It's a mess. But I think the GM, I think Mouji, the GM is doing a phenomenal job. And so it's a weird mix of I think this season, I think it's going to be a mess. But also, there's an incredible amount of talent on the offense, which I can't remember the last time I ever said that. Like both tackles and all the skill players are incredible up there with anything in the late. I totally agree. They just extended Joe Tittman to their garden. So it feels like they have three fifths of a legit long term successful plan on the O line. And that was the basis for which the 2000s and even the Rex Ryan teams were successful. It was always a build from the trenches kind of organization. It's kind of similar to how the meta historically has always been a pitching organization and an offensive first organization, which is a painful as a fan. You know, like that's the other things related to this is Aaron Glenn is yet another and a long line of first time defensive minded head coaches for the franchise. And it's something that, you know, for whatever reason the Johnson family is addicted to. And it's the one of the oddest things to be doing as we've watched the sport evolve over the last 25 years to continuously hire these folks. Now, when they fired some of those coaches, they were replaced by interesting placeholders on the defensive side. Brian Duker comes over from the Miami Dolphins who had previously worked with Aaron Glenn, but now Aaron Glenn will call the defensive plays, which is a big task for a head coach who also struggles to make decisions like should we try to kick a field goal at the end of a half in the middle of the game. And then on the offensive side, you got Frank Reich, who seems like a very nice man and who had previously retired and was kind of phasing into a new era of his football life. And has come back in his 60s in an attempt to design play concepts around all of this exciting young talent, which includes Garrett Wilson, one of the best receivers in NFL and recently resigned Breeze Hall. They just drafted Omar Cooper. They just drafted this incredible, fascinating Swiss Army knife Ken Yonsek. There are Adonai Mitchell heads who believe that he is going to be one of the most exciting receivers in the NFL this season. And Geno, who's got 4,000 yard passing seasons under his belt. And Frank Reich hasn't been a relevant OC in seven years, eight years. So I mean, he's been out of the NFL for more than two years and was fired the previous two years before that. So he hasn't even gone through an NFL season up being fired in four or five years. Yeah. So it does feel like the coaching staff is the only part of the organization that is being set up to fail. And everyone else is kind of operating in, in unusually smart ways or at least, like I said, competent ways. So there's a lot to watch this season. I'll tell you this. I actually told your co-host on the Ranger Fantasy football show Craig Horoback a few months ago, like, I'm out on this season. What I was going to do was I was going to pivot to Saturdays and I was going to make this, you know, arrangement with my life where let me watch college football this year. And then I'll take care of my daughter on Sundays because there's no reason for me to watch the Jets this year because we know where we're headed. But they had such an interesting draft and they did a lot of kind of generally, I would say, wise and they didn't over invest in any way in free agency. Now I feel like I have a lot to look at as we head into whatever the next coaching administration is going to be for the team, assuming that Aaron Glenn doesn't totally turn it around. So it's a weird thing where I'm really invested even though I know they're probably going to sort of suck. And in the past, I would trick myself into thinking, oh, well, Aaron Rodgers is the quarterback. This team should go to the playoffs, like that was the true delusion. This is more of a much more measured kind of optimism with long term expectations, like you noted. So it's exciting, but I don't, why should I be scared? Why should I be afraid? Why should I just feel like this is same old Jets? I mean, you have to hit the picks and you have to develop them. And I think that a coaching staff needs to develop players, you know, he took David Bailey with the number two pick in the drafts. The transfer should a Texas Tech who had the best first step of any pass or should the draft, probably the best peer pass, rusher in the draft. There's questions about his, like, his run defense, not that he's a bad run defender, but he's certainly not like an elite run defender. My immediate question should just, like, I feel like when the Jets play the Buffalo Bills, my main concern is she took David Bailey number two over our Valkyries, who I think for better or for worse, the Giants got our Valkyries at five. Those guys will be compared together. Their whole career is good, batter ugly. But I think my question is when the Jets play the Buffalo Bills, your best two edge rushers are well McDonald's and you have David Bailey. And I don't think they can both be on the field when the bills have two tight ends. Like straight up, the bills are going to run them off the field and you're going to pull off Will McDonald to let the team in sacks last year or your number two pick because they can't play together. That's my immediate question. My larger one is just whether they were afraid to take our Valkyries because the odds of him being misdeveloped under a coaching staff, it's a lame duck staff, it's just really high. That's really the concern, but overall, I think this reminds me of the NICS that I'm not trying to shoot. I'm wearing a NICS championship shirt, but you build in order. It's like PEMDOS. The order of operations matters. The Jets have two great tackles. Olufashada and Armand Membu, I think your number seven pick, I can't put the Raiders in take last year, looked like an incredible right tackle last year. That is an incredible, like there are not many teams that you feel like have left and right tackle figured out at above average clip for next five or six years. Two guys who are under 25, exactly, they're bookends for sure. Exactly. Honestly, the Jets have the deepest running back room, maybe in the entire league. Then you have, I mean, Garrett Wilson with 80 Mitchell, and now one more Cooper Jr., who another first drum pick out of Indiana, who I love is, I love the way he runs to the ball in his hands. He plays like a grown-ass man, which is one of my favorite traits in a player. Then also the tight end room. This is now a crazy young tie. You have Mason Taylor, who's Jason Taylor's son, out of LSU, your high second round of the last year, and then you took a first round tie down this year, can you speak, the tight end of Oregon, who, are you sitting down, I'm a little, I'm a little afraid for what's going to happen here, blood flow here. Can I read you some of Kenyans to date? Please do. Please do. All right. Control yourself. Kenyans to date, you're tight end. We're in the same 40-yard dash as Jonathan Taylor, Kenyans to D.K., their same broad jump as Des Bryant. His vertical jump at the combine was higher than Vince Carter's at the NBA combine. He's the same height as Julio Jones. He's the same weight as Lake Garrett Blunt, and he is the same top speed in his 40-yard dash that you're giving us. Okay. I'll be totally honest with you. I wasn't crazy about this pick, and I don't care about measurables. Those things are not interesting to me. He hasn't. I'm glad you said that because I feel that way too, and I didn't want to be a young yucker, but I agree. I'm like, "Oh, cool. Why'd you average 40 yards a game?" Yeah. I think he makes more sense given the weapons that the team has. I think if he were the 16-pick to a team that did not have a top 10 or a top 15-wide receiver and did not have a top 10 or a top 15 running back, it would be a little bit harder to accept. What I think you can see now is that if you use him a little bit more like the H-Back fashion or a little bit more of a gadget player, that he's going to be an interesting force, but he's not going to be a 90-ketch, 1200-yard kind of tight-end. He's not that kind of player. He's a little bit of a drop problem, which I think is a little bit under-disgust. I think it was a really bold move. The David Bailey move was a very safe move, and I think they kind of made up for it by picking Cooper who feels like a very competent, very clear somewhere between a two and a three. I like the formulation of the three of those guys and a couple of other picks that they made. Individually, I think there's kind of question marks about all three of them. I was just talking with a fellow of a friend who's an Eagles fan and the Eagles selected McIleman. I wonder if we'll look back five years from now and say, "They got a little cute with Kenya on Cedique," and they should have just taken McIleman there and figured out something else at @30, but who knows, it could be a really fascinating. I tend to agree. Actually, it's funny. I know I was trying to gash up with the vegetables, but that is actually how I feel deep down to is the tight-end. There are so many tight-ends that have been super athletic that haven't done a ton. I mean, you look back at -- I mean, man, no offense out of Iowa was an unbelievable athlete. OJ Howard, who even before his Achilles injuries, did very little. A lot of guys -- tight-end also takes a long time to develop. Even the last years, there's been some trends of elite guys doing really well. It takes a while to pop. But I agree. I agree with you about the McIleman thing. But again, I think that speaks to -- my concern to your point is, what do Johnson seems to have just gone into the offense and said, "I don't want to do what Tanner angstrends doing. If I were Tanner angstrends, three weeks after, the season ends, offensive coordinator." He's like, "I want Frank Reich, two years out of the NFL." So that's really the concern is the SNP SNAP, you know, Michael Scott, like the emotional tall of what are we doing on offense. And, you know, ironically, a perfect example of this is what happens to a guy like Massey Smith, who was now on the jets, who was the defensive tackle, the Cowboys, and he got flip-flopped in the Quinn and Williams trade, where he's the failed version of Quinn and Williams. And now, Massey Smith is there. And he was a crazy athletic defensive tackle at Michigan. And, you know, he didn't reach his potential. Part of that's always on the player. Part of that's on Dallas, we're like, "You're going to be a nose guard. You're going to be a free tech, which means gain 20 pounds, lose 20 pounds, gain 20 pounds as new defensive coordinators come in and have different visions." So you know, hard it is to be an NFL player and gain 20 pounds when you're at like 3% body fat. Like, they're eating all, like, it's a lot of work. And so that's the concern with all these players as it's not just, "Oh, you have to learn a new system. It's you have to learn a new language and sculpt your body to a different job." Like, it's very hard and it takes a toll. So that is my concern. Also, we've gone too far into the Jets without mentioning to your point, is you're not just McCoy lemon at that pick, but the Jets hired Aaron Glent, who was a cornerback for the Jets, a cornerback. The Jets were the first team to go an entire season without an interception. On record, since the forward pass was invented, which was before World War II. Yeah, it's not going to-- And they didn't take a cornerback in the first round. You know what though? I guess. Again, I was concerned about this until they selected DeAngelo Ponds and I genuinely just feel like I don't know anything about football Danny Aminitiate. I'm just a fan. I'm just a guy talking to you. Sure in the club. You know, I'm just a dude. But I watched DeAngelo Ponds play a lot less or last season. He obviously had a very memorable moment in the Oregon game in which he picked off the QB in the first play of the game. He sent Dante more back to school. That's why he's not on the jet. He sent Dante more back. And obviously, DeAngelo Ponds is comp literally during the draft was Aaron Glenn. And in the same way that Aaron Cooper just kind of plays like a dog, Ponds has the same reputation. And so I'm just going in, assuming that DeAngelo Ponds, whether he's playing out of slot or whether he's playing on the edge, like he, he's going to have four interceptions. Like, I just know it. I just know it. I agree. He's such a sucker for small guys who play huge. And I hate big players who play small. And Ponds is such a great player, like he's just, he just, the way he carries himself is unbelievable in a football field. I'm not saying he's honey badger or anything, but he just pops off the screen and you would never think he, you know, I would never have noticed how small he is. Like the listed measurable surprised me when I first discovered them because the way he played plays so big and explosive, I love that the Jets took him. I'm also, whether it works or not, I'm such a sucker for bad teams importing great culture by just picking off national champions. I love that they're just like Omar Cooper, Indiana, DeAngelo Ponds, Indiana, come on down. I like when they're like, well, we don't really have a culture. So let's just try to get a bunch of guys and play like grown-ass pros. And I don't think it's a bad strategy because again, we don't want to go to NIL and everything about Indiana, but Indiana played like a professional team because they're a professional team. The average age of Indiana starters was 23. The average age of the Green Bay Packers last year was 25. They are professional players. So I like that they brought these guys in. I agree. I feel like we've been watching the Eagles for five straight years, just draft guys from George every year and it seems to be working. Dude, you know that bell curve meme, we always talk about it on the fantasy football show, but it's like the idiot thinks something and then the smart people in the middle just kind of get caught up and then like the smartest people in the world kind of have the same simple takes as the moron. And they're like, the dumbest thing you could possibly think is, wow, this Georgia team's the best defense I've ever seen. Just take them. And then you go all the way through it. And Howard Roseman's just sitting there and everyone's just like glazing Howard Roseman all the time. And he's like, I don't just get to take half the best defense in college football history. How about that? It seems like a really good strategy. I'm glad that my team is finally coming around to it. I share some of the same concerns about David Bailey that you cited earlier and I do think that the defense is a real work in progress. And if you want to say this team is really going to struggle this year, I think it's because they're like half of a developed defense and a lot of the free agent signings that they made, especially players along the defensive line are very stop gap kind of players because it was such a miserable change over from the solid administration to Glenn. And I think Glenn and Co assumed that they could convert a lot of solids. The solid looks for a very specific kind of player. The person who probably suffered the most in the transition was Jamie Sherwood who had just signed a big extension to play linebacker and was truly terrible last year. I had to have been among the bottom 20 linebackers in the sport. And under solid he was a really exciting young player. So I think that they're still, and you know, their linebacker room is very thin at the moment. They have young corners, they have handsy corners who tend to make a lot of mistakes. Their safety, the safety is a position that they have struggled to fill for years and there's a little bit of a confusion at least among the fan base right now where they acquired Minkofits Patrick in the off season, but Minkofits Patrick in his first interview since being acquired said, I plan to play mostly out of the slot. And fans were like, no, you're Minkofits Patrick, all pro safety. We've been needing a safety, a competent free safety for 10 years. Why are you playing in the slot? We already have three slot corners. So I think that makes sense because Minkof, I know what you mean, you do a three slot corners, but I think the thing is it's Minkof, you want him to be able to make plays near the line of scrimmage attack on screens. You want him to be able to be a blitzer. You want him to be able to make impactful stuff near the line. He's a very gifted tackler, he's a great force fumble guy. And so I think that's what you need, you need explosive plays on defense too. And it's just easier for him to be impacting stuff around the line of scrimmage. Yeah, I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm generally concerned that they're going to, they're going to give up a lot of points. But maybe they'll score a lot of points. Oh, maybe, well, on that note, and I think this is the way it ended with the Jets because I won't talk about the giants, but to that point, just to hammer on the fact of how bad the Jets and Jets have been. I, I just, I mean, maybe this is obvious to people, but I just wanted to like actually illustrate that it's not hyperbole. The last 10 years, the last 10 seasons, the Jets and Jets are dead last in the following categories. And when I say that, I don't mean one or the other. I mean, they are both 31st and 32nd in the following categories, both teams, wins, winning percentage, yards, points, touchdowns, point margin. And they both are dead last in the amount of game time they've spent winning. And they both are first and second, most amount of game time spent losing, which is basically every single thing that matters in a football game. They are the worst teams of the last 10 years starting with points and touchdowns. And that is really the theme. Any Kelly jokes about it in the old time, the Jets and Jets need to start scoring touchdowns. They are horrible at it. I couldn't agree more. I'm, I'm, I'm eager to hear your perspective on this as a Giants fan, because again, like your agony is, it does, it's been 10 years, but to my mind, it doesn't feel that way. And I think maybe even to a slightly more casual NFL fan, you maybe don't realize the things have been as bad for the Giants as they have been over this period of time. And you're, you're at the dawning of a new era. You have a, you have a new head coach, you have an exciting young quarterback, you have a lot to look forward to. And yet, I don't know what it, like, I don't think Vegas thinks the Giants are going to be that great. Like what, how are you feeling? So I'll tell you how I'm feeling right after this break. Giants time. I agree with what you're saying, Sean. I think it's a sneaky secret to some that the Giants have been just as bad as the Jets have not worked. So for the last 10 years, I think that the Giants winning that one playoff game with Daniel Jones really hides the stench of it. But I mean, the Giants have a worse record than like, I mean, the Jaguars are better now than like the Jaguars who had number one picks two years in a row. Like worse than the Cleveland Browns who were certain cars like the Giants, worse than the Garnels, the Panthers, some of the worst teams. The Giants have been absolutely abysmal. I, I guess, I don't even know where to begin, sometimes like when you're talking about your own team, you're so inside the bottle, you can't read the label, but I, I will just say this. Both, like everyone else, so excited about the John Harbour higher. I am also so dubious of the fact that everyone unanimously thinks it's a good idea. It really sets my radar off and I have to tell you, I will say as much as I'm happy that John Harbour is cleansing the team of some stench, the idea that people are saying the Giants will be this year's Patriots flabbergast me and I, I am not really, I am optimistic about the Giants future. I think Jackson starts to get quarterbacked. I don't think the Giants will be some great team this year, even though they have a lot of talent in places, like I'm pretty concerned about the shoes team, to be honest. Yeah, I think it's interesting to compare them to the Jets because I think the Jets have a lot of promise, there's a lot of like potential excitement, whereas I do think that most fans see the Giants as being extremely talented, that there are legitimately good players on the team who we know can succeed. I feel, I would like to hear specifically whether or not you fully, truly, deeply madly believe Jackson Dart is not only the answer, but is the kind of quarterback who will play 15, 16, 17 games in a season and lead your team for the next decade to multiple playoff appearances. That depends on the same way. Jackson Dart, can he play 15, 17 games in a season? It's the same. Jackson Dart is why insurance companies charge a lot for men under 25 to drive a car. He plays like he has absolutely no sense of self preservation. I think, frankly, it's why Brian Dable got fired. I know Brian Dable, everyone, they had a lot of blown leads, which also funnily enough, why Ravens fans are not upset to see John Harbock go, a lot of blown leads, but in my mind, Brian Dable deserved to be fired because of the recklessness with which he encouraged Jackson Dart to play. I mean, Jackson Dart, just so you understand, he played 12 games last year. He had five concussion checks, like five blue tent checks in 12 games. To me, what was infuriating is Brian Dable wanted to be seen as a smart guy, and he was actually very emotional. It's like the anti-Dan Campbell. Dan Campbell wants to be seen as emotional, very level-headed and calm Dan Campbell is on the sideline. Brian Dable wanted to be seen as a genius, absolute hothead on the sideline, can't control himself. And I think it's exemplified by the play calling the two plays that I thought Brian Dable should be fired for, three, really, 49ers game. Not that matters, but I think it just represents how Jackson Dart was being encouraged to play. Jackson Dart against the 49ers, the Giants were down, I believe it was 17 points with 90 seconds left. And Jackson Dart got crushed, throwing a ball to the end zone. But the other one at the point where I was like, "Dable can go," was the Giants were down 25 points to the Eagles with three minutes to go. 25 points is a four-possession game. It's a four-possession game with three minutes to go. And Jackson Dart was called for quarterback keeper at the goal line, and he got crushed by Jeremiah Trotter, and he limbed off. And I'm like, I don't think there had ever been an example of the team winning in this situation that Giants were in, and Dable's, it's not an option, let me read option, quarterback keeper. Brian Dable, like it's a four-possession game. a video game and all that's to say was Jackson Tart reckless. Yes. Was Brian Dable encouraging it to save his own job? Absolutely. And so that is John Harboh's job is to keep Jackson Tart third and three run for it. Third and three down 30 points slide because people make too much of size. Bryce Jung or Anthony Richardson, however big you are, what gets you heard is taking hits and you just need to not take hits. You need to slide and run at a bounce and he played baseball. So I think he can. I think his deep ass, his accuracy is incredible. I mean, the, the, the, the, the, if you look at, I mean, some of these stats are new, but Jackson Tart had the best on target rate for any quarterback. It's a rookie since Joe Burrow, like six years ago. So I'm very out bullish about him. I'm very concerned with the Giants past catchers. I'm worried that this is going to be quietly like after the dolphin to wear an abomination, like the worst past catching group in the NFL. And I'm concerned with this going to do the offense, to be honest. I don't even kind of still didn't really answer my question. Like he's talented, which was something we know about the team, but is he the, is he the part five years from now? Is he the quarterback of the Giants? Is maybe a more pertinent question. And I think you can't say it depends. Like you think he is. I think yes. I think yes. I think John Harboh is more likely to disappoint Jackson Tart. I'll put it that way. I think Jackson Tart's talented. I'm worried about John Harboh. I think that Ravens fans were not upset to see John Harboh go. And I think that I agreed with what you're, the question I feel like what you're asking is, is Jackson Tart can let Giants fans down? I think John Harboh is going to let Giants fans down. And Jackson Tart might outlive John Harboh. To be clear, I would love nothing more in the world than John Harboh to be exactly as good as we all thought he should be. I wanted him to be hired. I want to Jackson, like I'm excited that Jackson Tart's the quarterback. I am very concerned that some of the things Harboh is doing. I think Harboh's plan A was good, which was the higher Todd Monkin is the offensive coordinator who reinvigorated Lamar Jackson as an MVP candidate after Greg Roman and the offensive coordinator for Lamar really let Lamar stagnate. And a lot of the failure for Lamar to play in the playoffs was an inability for the Ravens to react to modern blitz packages because Greg Roman doesn't have modern passing game. The Giants were going to hire Todd Monkin as the coordinator. You know who they got instead because the Browns hired Monkin as the coordinator. Now they have Greg Roman on the Giants offensive staff. They have Matt Nagy also on the Giants offensive staff. Matt Nagy is Andy Reed's long time guy who is cast aside by Andy Reed because it was not working. Greg Roman has worked for John or Jim Harboh for like 20 years and Jim Harboh had to let him go because he wasn't working for Herbert. That is two guys long time collaborators taught were like, you know what? It's best to like go our separate ways. And they're both on the Giants staff. These guys are both years and years behind the modern NFL. I'm really concerned about the Giants. I'm really concerned because none of all these guys can't really receivers and tight ends can get open but they can't get they can't block and everything is going toward your passive. You're receivers being able to block and the Giants have nobody. So if Malik neighbors again, we're bearing the lead. Malik neighbors coming off an ACL and Miniscus terror is very behind schedule. He was supposed to be ready for July. Now he might not be ready for September. And if he can't play or is not 100% the Giants passing game like straight up sucks. Who else is concerned about their offense? Tell us who else is who were the pass catchers? I am so glad you asked. So let's just say Malik neighbors is not available for week one. The players that Giants are going to look at starting is going to be Darius Slayton who has been. The team has been trying to get rid of for seven of the last eight years basically. And then it's Calvin Austin who was exiled to Siberia by Aaron Rogers last year. Darnel Mooney who could not stay in the Falcons lineup for health and other reasons. Malik feels who is a rookie at a Notre Dame and frankly like a Mac Collins blocking type. And Julius Mischuster who as Greg says is the oldest 29 year old man on earth. Yeah. He's been passed around a bit. And then the tight ends are guys who can't like Isaiah likely who they brought him for Baltimore's great receiver. But he's not a blocker. So you look around and it's like Calvin Austin's like he cannot block like Darius Slayton. I don't think he's the greatest blocker. Darnel Mooney cannot block their tight ends can't block. And I'm like this is not a modern game. This is like what was winning five or six years ago. And then they have I mean they went ahead and signed Patrick or card who's like the fullback from the Ravens days four years ago. I'm I don't know. This is just a bunch of Mishmash pieces. I don't see how they work in a modern offense. I'm concerned about these guys ability to like handle like Vic Fangio and the Eagles. I don't really see how they're going to win. Reminds me a little bit of what James Gunn's trying to do with the DC universe for films like you know it worked for Marvel 10 years ago. It was really effective. Exactly. Let's try to do it again. Then you get exactly what I feel with the DC universe and it's like I've got it done with this man. It's actually been done for a few years. I didn't even notice. I feel like so I feel like the bright side Danny is the one one of the key things that it seems like Carball was able to do was that he was able to coach Lamar Jackson to a place where he would protect himself because he could have been if coach differently a really reckless player who you know experience a lot of concussions and leg injuries and especially given his talents athletically. He he's turned into such a such an incredible force in terms of accuracy in terms of decision-making and it does seem like that's maybe the final piece of the puzzle for Dart in terms of protecting his body, not getting injured and making good decisions. So you've got that. Who is that? You lost a very competent wide receiver to free agency. Who did you lose? So Wando Robertson went and Brian Dable to Tennessee. So one of the funny thing it's good thing to mention in this judge's Jets episode is that the New York guys with the tail between their legs got exiled to Tennessee. So Robert Salad takes the tight inside the coach job and hires Brian Dable to rehabilitate himself as the offensive coordinator. And they're just like getting the gang back together and Brian Dable brings in Wando Robertson. They brought in Cordill Flot like a bunch of cornerback, a bunch of players in the Giants and Robert Salad goes straight up trades to Vanger's sweat who is not a solid S player from the Titans to the Jets. He gets back to main Johnson. He brings back all these players. And so they just kind of do it in New York, fired coaches. John, John Franklin Myers is back in Tennessee as well. It's an interesting thing and it's very similar to what you're describing this concern with the Giants right now. And I've heard you talk about this over the years, but you know, professional teams are not purely, they're not consulting businesses in which there's meant to bring an objective point of view to every experience to maximize potential for every product. They're people businesses. They're about relationships. They're about people who've known each other and worked together and crossed paths. They went to college together. They were assistance together. They rose through the ranks together or players who they worked with. They want to bring back who know their system, who know how to implement their system. And so when you begin to see the sport that way, you understand that actually explains often the rise and fall of certain strategies. And it's funny that we're going to have three different versions of New York football this year with the Titans. And the Jets open their season against the Titans, which is going to be a fascinating maybe revenge game. You know, we haven't, I haven't barely mentioned Robert Salad. I'm not even sure if Robert Salad got a raw deal. I think he was fired in an untoward way, but he was not a good head coach. Can I tell you something? I think the last person left, I think Solo was doing a great job for the Jets. And the narrative around, I think it's, again, Robert Salad is a defensive coach who as the plan outlined by the GM, by, by, by Solo by the owner, Woody Johnson, they were like, well, Aaron Rogers and Nate Hackett get to just run the offense and Solo's going to be head coach defensive guy. Well, who delivered on their end of the bargain? Like he was fired after a Vikings London game, which Eric Manjini predicted what happened because Woody Johnson would be with his posh British friends as ambassador and be embarrassed and fire him freak out. Robert Salad's defenses had given up three touchdowns in the previous three games. And then he was fired. Aaron Rogers threw a pick six in the game. And then the defensive head coach gets fired in a game where the defense gave up one touchdown and Aaron Rogers threw a pick six and the defensive coach gets fired. The fact that Aaron Rogers, like any other coach, if Aaron Rogers, who insists there's no viable backup, gets terraces of killings, four games, four snaps in at the season. And then the Jets still won like seven games, even though I believe Robert Salad was not allowed to pursue a better backup quarterback. And they still won seven games. That, I don't know how many other people could have won seven games with that fucking team. There's a lot. I don't, everywhere he goes, everyone plays better under Salad. The nineers, I don't, everywhere he goes, everyone maximize, maximize that. Defensive defensively. That's true. I think you can go back two steps. If you go back one further step back a year and a half prior to that experience that you're describing, Michael Flore was fired as the offensive coordinator in a similar fashion of the way that Tanner Angstram was fired for the failures of Zach Wilson. And Michael Flore is now about to be the head coach there. I was on a cardinals. We'll see how that goes. But he was, he's not with Flore's brother. He's in the McVeigh tree. He was a super gifted offensive mind. He's been an assistant coach for the Rams for the last three years. And the Flore is solar as close as it gets. Like when Sal was fired, he lived in Matt Flore's house the rest of this. And so moving on from La Flore at that time, I think led the Jets down a very dark path of not really knowing how to run an organization offensively. And Salad just doesn't do that. So you can give him credit for the things you're giving him kind of for. He's a terrific defensive head coach. But that's not your whole job. And you know, it's an interesting thing. Like I think Harbaugh is kind of the opposite in terms of how we narrativize what the role of a coach is. Harbaugh, I believe Harbaugh's background is a special team said coach. That was his job before he was a head coach. And he is a, you know, he's a CEO type. He is a sort of like see all pieces of the puzzle and understand if it's together, at least allegedly, that's how he's kind of narrativized as a coach. And there was this expectation with Aaron Glenn that he was going to be a head coach in that model. And now he's being asked to do the thing that Robert Salah was doing, which was coaching the defense primarily and hoping that another grownup will be able to handle the offense. Now it's not Aaron Rodgers and Nate Hackett, two people who I would not describe as grownups. It is Frank Blake who is a grownup. But I don't know. I too grown up. - Who is the DC for the Giants this season? - So the Defense Accordinator, so it's an interesting thing. So the Giants hired, it's a really, so he actually, it's actually part of the whole swap. It's Denard Wilson, who was funneling off in Tennessee, which is just part of this weird, incestual, like Robert Salas had coach, Dable's the Office Accordinator, and then the Giants hired the Defense Accordinator, Denard Wilson. And I think he's quite promising. I really like the system. Again, it's more modern. I like that, it's the exact opposite of, I think what's happening to the Giants and the offensive side of the ball. I think it's skating to where the puck is heading, is a lot of what Denard Wilson's gonna be able to do. I think the Giants edge rusher group under Denard Wilson is like the best it's been since they were winning Super Bowls. I think I'm still a little upset the Trader Dexter Lawrence. But I'm excited about what the Giants are gonna do on Defense. I'm excited to see what goes. Arvel Reese was an absolute coup at the fifth pick. I'm curious, you feel about Bayley vs. Arvel Reese? I think that was like, I was slapped you out stunned to get Arvel Reese. I think frankly, the other teams were happened to just be a little scared of taking him. But I'm over the moon about Arvel Reese getting to play for Denard Wilson. I think it's gonna be fantastic. I think it's disappointing that the two times the Jets had the number two overall pick this decade, the more or less consensus choices, forget about who they actually selected, but the consensus choices were the players that they selected. And they were evidently flawed players who people didn't feel good about as number two picks in David Bailey and Zach Wilson. That's, and you can go back and look through the years of the times in which they had had top five picks and there have been some that have been good and some that have been bad. Mark Sanchez comes to mind, Sam Darnell comes to mind, Quinn and Williams comes to mind. There have been a lot of interesting, the team has been so bad for so long that they're frequently picking at the top of the draft. And I don't ever feel like we get Miles Garrett. You know, from, there's something like crazy making about never landing that like shore fire, Aaron Donald style, Hall of Fame. Like, well, this guy is just the dude and you've got the number two or number three or number five pick and you get to get the dude. And how close you come sometimes where it's, you know, the infamous Jets game at the Greg, oh no, Greg Williams, where you ended up, you beat the Rams as 18 point underdogs and whatever and played your way at a Trevor Lawrence. And no, it is infuriating when you get I pick. That's how I felt about the giants at five ironically. I was like, oh, they won't go to the lead player. And then I think the best player in the whole draft falls to them. So we'll see if he becomes that guy. I think he is, I'm happy he's a linebacker. I don't know how much you want to get here. But our real reason is holding is he now drusher, he's an inside linebacker outside linebacker. I'm like, he's both, he's in and out. He's in, he's trained as an inside linebacker. And I think your best players being in the center of the field is good. I think sometimes he overthink the positional thing. He's a trained lineback. I mean, there's this guy, Ali Connolly, who is, there's a great sub stack called the read optional, which unfortunately to projections. I think it's the best name sub stack ever is this read optional for full sub stack. But he was trained in the NFL as a linebacker scout. And Ali Connolly gave out the highest grade he's ever given, the only grade to a linebacker he's ever given out scouting wise, higher than Arvel Reese was Luke Keekley. It's the only player ever with higher grade. And that made me feel a little less crazy 'cause I think Arvel Reese is more or less like a perfect linebacking prospect who happens to be like an crazy ceiling pass rusher. But the idea, it's not that different than basketball. It's like, I want someone who can do a little bit of everything. You know what I mean? And I'm so excited to have him. But you know, I'm a little bummed about the Dexter Lawrence thing. It's like, oh, top 10 pick is cool. And then it's like, well, they traded him for Frances Marie Noelle, who is a herniated disc and is going to play right guard. I'm like, well, I kind of want Dexter Lawrence then, but I'm not, you know, that's a problem. - That makes sense. It's the same question that I think Jets fans could ask themselves about whether or not you'd rather have sauce gardener over Kenyan's seat. I mean, that's really, you know, obviously, you'd have to pay sauce gardener for the next four seasons if you wanted to do that. But that's effectively, they traded him for that. And for, you know, let's just spit ball. Are the Colts going to win four games? Are they going to win 11 games? 'Cause that's also, like this is the, the Jets season really hinges on the futures of the Colts and the Cowboys this year as much as it does the players on their team. - This is a good offshoot of a Giant's Jets show to have a Daniel Jones. - That's right. See, another Jets pick. - I gotta tell you, I am very, I'm, I am very bearish. I am like in the bad way on the Colts this season. I have never since I've been covering, I think this is actually my tenth season, covering the NFL for the ringer or something like that. I don't think I've ever seen a team more aggressively chase the first 10 weeks of a season. I think it's pathetic to be honest to you. It's like, I've never, like just act like you've been there before they were really good for 10 weeks. And then they're like, oh, well then the injuries happen. I'm like, well, you mortgage your future for a cornerback who immediately strain his calf in sauce gardener. But I'm like, bitch, like, oh, well Daniel Jones got hurt. I'm like, yeah, Daniel Jones has one healthy season in eight years. That's what happens. He has a neck injury. He's had an ACL. He's like, literally, Daniel Jones had one healthy season for the Giant's ever. And the idea that the Colts with a year to prepare for what they were doing, Shane Steckin's done an amazing job as a coach play caller and everything. They have a good, you know, the Colts have good offensive infrastructure, even if they lost Michael Pittman. But the idea that Daniel Jones, often a killer is recovery. As frankly, probably the least mobile will have ever seen Daniel Jones is going to be as impactful. I think is a crazy bet. And I think the Texans are a super bowl caliber team. Just on the roller coaster, CJ Straub. That's the best defense in the entire AFC. I think Jaguars can get better and not worse. I don't think the Colts are going to compete in that division at all. I think the Colts are a seven-win team or worse. I think the Colts could deliver you a five-win. I think it's more likely that Jets get a top five pick from the Colts or top six than it is the Colts make the division around it less. It's music to my ears, honestly. From afar, it does feel like there was so much exuberance around the first half of the season with the team last year in the aftermath of the owner's passing and the daughter taking over. And she was on the sidelines. And, you know, that can be intoxicating, but Bill Simmons has talked about this many years a sort of new owner syndrome. And even though it's in the family that she's making a lot of decisions, it seemed to be oriented around bringing back Alec Pearce at an insane number, but then you can't bring back Michael Pittman. And then all of a sudden, do you even really have the same team that you had last year and will your course running back also be running for 1,500 yards again? So like, yeah, in addition to watching Jets games with some interest, I'll be also watching a lot of Colts games. And, you know, I'm not, I'm not the kind of person that would root for like a Dak Prescott injury, but the Cowboys are also a Dak Prescott injury away from potentially having a calamitous season. So like, it's an interesting way to be a fan where you don't really have any faith in where your team is going in any given season, but there are all these tributaries of interest that you can track over time. It's a little bit like having a real life fantasy team right now. - I know what you mean, and also that's the thing is you don't have to get the first pick. Like the reality is just having free dark throws and what will be a very talented draft. And here's the thing. I do think when, and it's always overrated of like, oh, how talented is the draft? And everyone's like, you listening a lot of names on quarterbacks next year, but no one actually knows if any of them, no one wants to point to the one quarterback that's great. It's like, well, there's six guys. Quarterback aside though, it's a very deep draft in a lot of spots. And I will say this, as hard as it is to point to a specific player and tell you their future, I do think in the NFL draft, all sports, the intelligentsia, when they're like, it's a deep draft at a position. For the most part, people are correct. No one's really sure if Darren Peterson or A.G. DeBonza or Campoos are gonna be amazing. But largely speaking, it will be a good draft in the NBA this year, because people usually are right about the hit rates on the overall class. I do think just having three dark throws next year, I mean, Aaron Donnell was like the 14th pick in the draft or something, you know what I mean? J.J. Why? J.J. Why? Wait, in the late 20s. Just being able to throw darts in a deep draft is really smart with, I love what the Jets have done to set themselves up. And frankly, I think the Jets have a new head coach, and I think the entire fate of the organization is gonna hinge on it. I think Aaron Glenn will get fired at the end of this year. I think the Jets will have a top 10 pick. They might have another one. And then wherever the Cowboys finish, I think the Cowboys win the division. But then I think you'll have a new head coach and whoever the head coach is, I think we'll completely decide the future of the team. And it'll be fascinating to see what they do. Okay, I wanna get two predictions from you. I wanna know what you think, the Giants will finish at the end of the season, and two, I want your prediction for who will be the Jets head coach in 2027, 2028. - Wow, to take those backward, you know, it's funny, if the charges didn't hire, sorry, if the Ravens didn't hire Jesse Minter, would have said Jesse Minter, I would say that the Jets, I can't do another first time defensive head coach. I can't do that. Jesse Minter seems really great. - Well, you don't want Chris Shula? - No. - I wonder if Chris Shula would have turned out the Jets off. - 'Cause you gotta remember, they're gonna have, this is gonna be a very young offense with a rookie quarterback. - Well, let me tell you something. If the Titans shockingly with nine games, and they really missed the playoffs, and Cam Ward looks amazing, would you hire Brian Dable? - I don't know that, I don't know that Woody Johnson wants the sloppy seconds of the Giants. - I used to say these are the Giants, and Jets wouldn't trade for the Darnold year. I was always amazed that the Giants never took the same Darnold package. Like the Colts moved down three picks and got three second rounders. I'm like, what did the Giants do that? But they won't work together. I agree with you on that. I think basically, I do think the Giants will be a position to get a quarterback. I think the interesting wrinkle in the NFL right now is because there's so many new play callers, and they're cycling through offense. The coordinator's coach is getting fired. What you're ending up with is a lot of play calling former head coaches, probably more than there's been in the past. You have a lot of, the coaches are calling plays, often to defense more than ever, and there's kind of hiring a former head coach to handle the other side of the ball. You spend Johnson, calls plays, does run game installations, but Dennis Allen, who was someone hated. coach in the Saints. He does defense. That model is everywhere, like Robert Sullivan's to run the defense. Cool. Brian David will, he'll just run the offense like a head coach. And so I think that will probably be the answer is it's, you will probably have two head coaches on staff. One was a head coach and your offensive coordinator is a head coach. And I think the idea being, well, we kind of ran out of offensive minds to be the head coach. So I'll hire a defensive one and you have a former head coach try to get a second job. And the idea is, well, what if he leaves and the quarterback is so good that the guy leaves? And I think the answer is that's a great problem. Like if you're in Tennessee and can't work place so well this year that Brian David leaves, what a great problem to have. And I think that is probably the most likely answer for the jets is the defensive minds are more available. Cause frankly, the, the NFL over indexed on offensive coaches were running out of guys. Like the defensive guys adapting to them are the guys at the forefront of the league. And like you'll probably have to settle for that. I can't do that again. I can't do that. 25 years. You'll see. The one time, I don't know if I can accept that way. Okay. How do you think the giants are going to do? I think, you know, happiness is just expectations minus reality. I think it depends on expectations. If people think they're going to be the Patriots from last year, again, no chance. Like the Patriots in 80 to one super favor to row the easiest schedule ever to the Super Bowl. No fucking chance. I think the giants would be incredibly fortunate to make the playoffs. And that would be really cool. And it would require the Eagles imploding or Dallas to really underperform. And it's possible. But the giants have a funny thing about the Patriots comparison. Patriots schedule was the easiest in the NFL. The giants have a hard schedule. Giants play a lot of incredible teams this year. So I think they'll actually be great, really good on defense. I think the past rush is going to be unbelievable and revelatory to have Abdel Carter, Brian Burns, Arville Rays. I think it's about the athletic front seven in the whole league. I think the offense will be hard to watch. I don't think believe neighbors is 100% and you're going to have day games out there where it's Calvin Austin and like Darry Slaton and Malachi fields, they say likely trying to block. And I think it's going to look at how, you know, flaccid the chiefs looked at times at the homes last few years, like how not fun it's been to watch Passion Moms play. Imagine that was Jackson Dart. And I think it'll look a lot like that, especially the scat about coming off an ankle fracture. Like no one's going to look 100% and I think it'll be hard to watch on offense. It'll be a little struggle and the defense will be amazing. So I'm not, but I think long term, I like that Harbohg ripped out a lot of the favoritism and nepotism ownership had been handing out jobs. So yeah, the last thing I wanted to ask before we get out of here, Sean. And this is maybe a little corny. Maybe we cut this. But we haven't talked with this yet. And I want to ask you going back to the beginning with watching the next you had a cool story about what it was like to watch the next championship of your daughter. And I want to ask you about fandom and the difference of handing, how you thought about handing down fandom before the next title and like how it feels to watch because that, you know, obviously I feel like even six months ago, you felt like Jets was a curse, a pox upon your house and it to you unfairly. And I'm curious how it feels to you now to be like a father and passing down sports fandom to your kids. And I'm just curious how you feel with that. And like now that the nix of one and help springs eternal. It's complicated for a variety of reasons. One, I live in Los Angeles. I don't live in New York. Growing up in New York, even though I was handed these bum teams, I was, I was at Chase Stadium. So anywhere from five to 30 times a season went from the ages of five to 15. And then as an adult, when I was living in New York and working, I had season tickets. So I was just at Metz games all the time. And it was like, it was the same way that you would be handed Catholicism. You know, it was like, do with this what you will, but this is what you got. And you have to come to a real like adult age to, to realize that you can reject this. And so, but in Los Angeles, we're not going to, we're not going to church every Sunday. And we're certainly not going to Chase Stadium anymore. And so there's, my daughter's going to have some more free will in the decision making, but watching the nicks together and watching her watch Brunson, that's when something in the amygdala forms. Like it, like something took hold there. And I have the exact same t-shirt that you're wearing right now. And so does my daughter. So we all have, if you ruin from the nicks, you have to buy that t-shirt. It's, it's a, it's a wall. And so because like you start getting gear and you start building relationships, the players, and you start asking, when does the season start again? These are things that like my daughter didn't care about six months ago. And she's interested in this. NBA has done, it's a done deal. This is a nicks fan. And I didn't really make that happen. Like the nicks made that happen. That, that was the power of this group of guys and how fun the last three months were for us as fans. Football is different because football is, football feels more like a video game to little kids and kids respond. I have found two symbology and logo and I, and those ideas. So my daughter likes watching the lions. She doesn't know why she likes watching the lions other than she likes lions. And so she's like, are the lions on on Sunday when I'm watching football. And I'm like, yeah, but we're watching the Jets and she's like, can you put it on the two box? Like she already knows that we can like split the boxes. She's fucking five. Because she wants to watch the lens. She doesn't know who Jimier Gibbs is. She doesn't really understand that Dan Campbell has that meditative component on the sideline that you described earlier in the episode. But she wants to watch the lions. Am I going to be able to get her off that? Sure, maybe of Kenyan Cedeek is the most exciting player in the NFL. But if not, that's something that is like a little bit out of my control. I have the Mets and the Mets is, she is very aware of the team and because there's so many games, she has a lot of forced exposure to watching the team. That franchise is doing things that I think are like unimaginable. Like they, their inability to be successful over time, given the resources that they have is absurd. And it is, it is humbling. It is crazy too because you're like, well, the richest and I don't know about smartest. But yeah, most, I mean, obviously like Steve Cohen has been successful in like more or less ever than he ever tried in finance. And it's funny to watch someone like that actually willing to put their money where their mouth is and put every conceivable dollar and ask that into it. And it just, it's almost worse. It's hard to fail in the way that they're failing. I mean, this is not a baseball podcast, but I'm trying to figure out Boba Shet as a human. And like, oh my god, how did this happen? Where he just like, he was shocking. He just immediately became one of a bottom 50 player in Major League Baseball, the minute he put on a Mets uniform after being a world series hero. So anyway, before I digress too hard, the point is that I think you can and should build, if your sports fan build relationships with your children through sports. If they show an interest to them, my daughter shows an interest in sports. Yeah, exactly. Forcing fandom onto your kids is dangerous. It's very similar to forcing Star Wars fandom or Narnia fandom or if you're into any kind of cultural thing, there's there's downsides. There's heartbreak if they don't show an affinity for the thing that you care about. On the other hand, independence is something that you want to encourage your child to have. And so when my daughter, whatever a year and a half ago, was like, I'm a lion's fan, I was like, all right, cool. Well, like, let's try to hold on to that. Show me how much that actually means to you. And there's like, there's a bit of learning that comes with that. And when the lion's missed the playoff, this, this past season, I was like, you know, what happened to the lions, right? They failed. This is character building. Yeah. I'm also when you're like, you share your kids things that you care about. And they don't care. And it hurts you. I was picturing you showing like Paul Thomas Anderson. There's something like, there will be. But that's going to happen. And if she says, no, I'll say great. Then you have your taste. Then you have the things that you care about that matter to you. Like, I think that's an essential component to being a parent is exposing your child to things that you feel are valuable. But if they don't cotton to them, don't continue to push it. Let it go. And I have to let them let go. That's probably a good idea. But like the Catholicism thing, then it comes back around. You see the next and you're like, wow, faith, community. Is this? Can I be honest with you? I'm also in my 40s having thoughts about faith and religion. And I'm like, is this something that I actually am interested in as I get to this phase of my life? So that's maybe something that can happen for her when it comes to the Jets. You know, she's got to take time away. She's got to spend time at Dan Campbell. She'll eventually return when she's in her 40s. And I'll be long dead. Well, there we go. That'll be the that'll be the total of the episode. The next made Sean believe in God and the Jets and Giants undo that. There we go. Sean, thank you so much for doing this to me. This was a ton of fun. I appreciate it. Thank you for doing it. I was I'm really glad we got to catch up. Me too, Danny. Thank you. You're you're you're an elite host. Did you know that? You're one of the most elite hosts. I yeah, no, right. Come on. You yourself up a little bit. You got a big season coming up. You know, I actually pre well careful because I'll say something nice and happy. But that means a lot because I remember the first time you edited a story. I was I was fucking terrified. So I remember the days when I was still bouncing you on my knee like my daughter. You know, I look at you. You're all grown up. I'm proud of you, Danny. For the best part. We'll say, you know, uh, but yeah, Sean, thank you for doing this. This was fun. Thank you to Chris. Thank you to Regina and thank you to Shield for taking a vacation for once. And for the record, I think Shield, you should keep the beard. I don't care what your family says. I want to keep the vacation. There's a beard. I didn't even know there was a beard here. You got to go to Instagram. Yeah. Follow Shield on Instagram. It's a playoff beard. And I think the harder his family pushes him to shave it, the more he's going to keep it. So I know that's going to be all right. That's great. Well, thank you, Danny. All right. Thank you, everyone. Check out the projections, which is an awesome substacks. Sean just started. It's fantastic. Check out the big picture. And then I'm on the ring of fantasy football show. And um, listen to Shield on the ring of the full show. He's back on vacation. So thank you, everyone for listening. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas, star casino or 18 plus and present in DC Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem called 1-800 gambler or 1-800 my reset call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland hope is here visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8 hope and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana call 1-877-770-7867.