Caller: “Why Is My Wife Unhappy?”

[MUSIC] My wife and I have been married for 24 years, we have five kids. I think what's happened over the years is she's been meeting a lot of needs of a lot of people. It's almost like in meeting all these needs for so long, her ability to figure out what she desires or what she wants. Those muscles have atrophied. [MUSIC] What up, what up, what up, what up, what up, this is John with the Dr. John Dolone Show. [MUSIC] A Houston kid dropped in the middle of Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls. Man, I wish I was still a kid. Being a kid when I grew up, man Kelly, I had the last great American childhood. >> Yeah, I would love to be a kid when we grew up, not now. >> Not now, I'd rather set myself on fire. >> Right, back when we were kids and literally no one knew where we were. >> Ever. >> And here's what's awesome, I don't think anyone cared where we were. >> No, I was a third kid, no one cared. >> The greatest gift I could give my parents was going away. >> Going away, yeah, yeah, and not in a traumatic way, but in a- >> No, just go. >> Just not here, just not here. >> Drinking sugary kool-aid that somebody's mom brought out and- >> I like how you pause, drinking sugary kool-aid. >> Kool-aid and- >> But all, you know, like everybody's bikes being at one house. >> Bikes dude, and that's how you knew you got left out. >> If there's all the bikes going to one house somewhere. >> And like mom, calling around from house to house, trying to find you if they needed something. >> The best. >> Be home in the street lights are on. >> And we lived in a cul-a-sac, so when the street lights came on. >> Even more of the best. >> Yeah. >> And then, but even like after dinner during the summer, go back out on high seats. >> Yes, and then one guy, I know exactly who he is. I'll just say, Mr. Q, if that ball's on my lawn, I'm going to pop your ball. That was a real guy on my street, it was so great. And anyway, Pine Cone wore the best, the best. But we're not there anymore. I'm an old man now, and we are in the 21st century, and it's chaos. And that's what this show is about, is sitting in the middle of whatever storm you find yourself in with your relationships, your mental, emotional, health, your kids, whatever you got. And I'll sit here with you, and we'll figure out what's the next right move for you and your family. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you, click the link in the show until we will get you on. It's going to Boise, Idaho, and talk to Steve. What's up, Steve? >> Hey, Dr. John, thanks for letting me pull up the seat. >> You got it, brother. I'm glad you're here, man. What's up? >> Okay, my wife and I have been married for 24 years. We have five kids, the oldest is 22 and the youngest is 10. So we are in it. >> Yeah, dude. >> We've been in it for a long time. >> Y'all got out after it early, and y'all have been in it a long time. >> We did. We started early. And my wife stayed at home mom the whole time, so she's really been in it. She's a fantastic mom, and so I think what's happened over the years is she's been meeting a lot of needs of a lot of people, you know what I mean? And so in our conversations as we've been talking, what we've come to or what I've, as I've listened to what she's saying, it sounds like it's almost like in meeting all these needs of all these people for so long, for her ability to figure out what she desires or what she wants, is like those muscle muscles have atrophied, you know what I mean? >> Yeah, and I imagine to any mother listening to this episode to two guys going, yeah, and then this happened. And they're like, yes, yes, so the one of the hardest, yet most beautiful, yet most painful things I've endured in my adulthood is having a woman, and I've been ready 24 years too. My best friend on planet, like we're together till one of us is in the ground, right? And she's gone from like rock star research, no rock star elementary school teacher to like renowned research professor to quit all of that, to stay at home, to author, to code like, but the whole reason I tell you that is less about the jobs and more about the dramatic identity shifts she's experienced and how hard that is. And like the question, who am I now and who do I want to be and who am I going to be is such a powerful existential question that I've had the privilege to not have to deal with, right? Because I got to go to work, right? And there's not like a, I guess if she, man, God, if she made a million dollars, dude, that would be so awesome. That would be so awesome. But like, I haven't had to wrestle with who am I as a mother and the mother trying to take over the role, like in combat with the identity of a wife, right? And with the woman, right? Is that being in conflict with the identity of professional and that being in conflict with the identity of just me? I'm me. What do I want? Who do I want to be right? What a nightmare, man. And so is she, I mean, you got a 10 year old, so I imagine it's fourth or fifth grades. And so there's less, I mean, there's more time at home where there's just not humans that need you right now. Can I have a snack? Can I have a snack? Can I have a snack? Obviously, there's still the management of household, but is she starting to ask questions about who am I? Yeah, I think that's part of it and there is more time now, right? So I think if we can facilitate the right, like, where do we, it's weird being an adult and not knowing what you want, right? And like, we're educated adults and it's like, how can you not know what you want? But that's where we are. And I totally get it because of what you've laid out beautifully, but like, where does she go or like, how should we help her start figuring out what do I want? Because she does have extra time now. The greatest gift, and I can only speak to this from my singular lived experience, okay? Anytime, either one of a romantic partnership, right? Either one, I always want to put them in the driver's seat. But like you mentioned, she may look at you and say, I haven't driven in 20 years, in 22 years, I haven't driven. I want to drive. I don't even know, right? And you as husband who loves her, it sounds like y'all are pretty tight, right? Y'all have good marriage, yeah. It can feel real unin, like, you can feel like a failure, like, I can't fix this one. I can't help. I don't know what I can do here, right? And so what I would tell you from my lived experiences, I spent a lot of years trying to fix it as though she was somehow broken and I was wrong. And instead of where I'm at now and have been for probably the, you know, a better part of a decade is a constant reassurance that whoever she wants to be and whatever she wants to, wherever she wants to follow her nose and whatever she wants to get into, there will not be a bigger cheerleader on planet Earth than me. The only encouragement, the only like, come on, like, I'm speaking this not, it's like you will not like that, but as buddies, like, I challenge you to go do something wild. I challenge you to go take on this project. I challenge you to fill in the blank and that might be y'all signing up for dance classes together. That might be you, you take her hand and lead her to new experiences, weird experience. Like we're going to start going to Thursday night, late movie and we're both going to sleep through it. I'm making stuff up, but I want you to, once a week, I want to encourage you. Once a week, at dinner time, I want you to leave, I want you to go do something fun just for you. And she might say, the funnest thing in the world for me is to have dinner with my family. Great. Awesome. But continually, hey, we've got money set aside. You want to go back to college? You want to take a class? I'm thinking in the last five years, my wife has taken a, she's like a licensed coach. She got her master gardener certification here in Tennessee. She's done some wild cool stuff and I'm watching her become this amazing person that there's no script for. Right? There's a script for professional. There's a script for moms, a script for wife. She's much in her go and dude, it's so awesome. But it does take a lot of encouragement in that whatever you want to do, wherever you want to be. I got you. Right now, it sounds like what your wife needs is freedom, like freedom to go explore, but that freedom often we think like we're just going to knock all the fences down and you're free. That can be overwhelming. So you're anchored to this amazing guy named Steve and I got you go, go do crazy stuff, join a book club. Go to stand up, go learn the guitar, like go begin to follow your nose like, who do you want to be? What do you want to be? A question that I often recommend folks ask is begin to ask, who don't want to help now? Right. Good. Who don't want to help and don't want to help start a radio show? Do I want to help single moms, do I want to help? And that can tend to guide you, do I want to help people get their plumbing fixed at their house? I don't care. But that might be a path that helps somebody at least get started in a direction. Right? Yeah. What, when she's at home, like, how is this coming up, is she, is she getting concerned? Is she getting worried? Is she becoming hollow? How are you experiencing this? No, it's more like this, so I'll say, so I've been saying how can I love you doing certain things? And what I almost always get back is to do usually for one of the kids, right? Right, tasks, yeah. Take the kid here or whatever. Yeah. And so I get that. But I just got the sense that that wasn't really connecting to her, you know what I mean? And so I would say, do you feel more connected to you? Do you feel more loved? like, I don't even, she's like, don't give me her. wrong, I'm grateful. You took stuff off my list, but I don't necessarily feel more connected. And I'm like, well, maybe we're not getting to what you want. When I ask you that, she's like, well, I don't even know what I want. I'm so into the day-to-day, the tasks and to do that I can't even, like, what I want is buried in there so deep. I don't even know how to connect to it. For me, much less tell you what I want. Gotcha. Gotcha. You know what I mean? And there's also, I think, for her, there was also growing up where negative emotions were not allowed. Yeah. Yeah. And so she either had to go having somewhere else by herself, or she had to, yeah, had to be positive. And so this may be actually, you know, 43 years of, I just buried what I want or my raw natural emotion. Yeah. And I don't let anybody see them, you know. And so I feel for her, like, the, again, the way you've laid it out plus, I just think the muscle there is just super atrophied. And I don't know if she feels confident, like, how do I work these muscles? How do I even ask this question? Yeah. A great path for you is, like, appropriate yet over the top a little bit, curiosity. Okay. You may have heard me mention this on the show. I had this big revelation, I think two years ago now, around New Year's when I took, I took a day or two, like, a retreat for myself, like, kind of guy were you last year? And who do you want to be this year? Right? And I usually do it after me and my wife, I've had our big, who do we want to be as a married couple time away? And I had this big epiphany, like, I know my wife. We like share a house, we share a bed, like we share kids, like, I know her, I don't know her anymore. And we're both former college professors, we're nerds. And so I asked her to make me a syllabus of her. And she was like, what are you talking about? And I said, like, give me 10 podcasts you listen to and or like, give me the last five or 10 books that you, like, got something deep out of or you just liked or that were ridiculous, but they held your attention, right? Three TV shows. What are some big questions about AI, about politics, about the direction of the world? What are things that scare you? I said, make me a syllabus of you, because I want to spend some time, like, re-getting to know you. And here was a, this is a powerful moment for us. Like one month went by, two months went by. And I was doing something, I was like, I never got that syllabus. And so I texted her, hey, you know what I mean, it's still of us. And she texted back, I hope you, I was hoping you forgot. And I texted back, why? Well, here's the, here's the, here's the kicker. She said, I said, I said, why did you have to forget? And she said, I'm suddenly afraid that if you really know you won't like me anymore. And I was like, could I give my, am I, so I was like, do we been together 30 years between dating and being married? Like, we're, my ship has sailed, right? And that innate fear never leaves a person ever, ever, ever. And it was this light bulb for me, like, and the tiny stuff and the hand holding and the 60 second hugs and the, how can I love you today? Those things are really important. But I only can know those things if I know her. And so it's this constant process. And we all change. Like, I'm married to like version 40 of her. And she's married to version 200 of me. Like, I married to a brand new woman. I'm not married to the same person I married 24 years ago. So I want to get to know her. That syllabus exercise, man, it was awesome. I listened to all the podcasts. Some of them were pretty insightful. Some of them made me want to stab my ears, ear drums out. And like, I read several of the books through three of them were really impactful for me. Several of them I couldn't even get, I mean, I was like, this is drivel. Like, I don't even know what this is. But when we went to dinner, I was like, hey, tell me about this book that really impacted you in this way. And she's like, it meant this and it said this. But that was me less about the book, but getting to know how she's experiencing the world now. And man, that has made all the difference in the world, not just that one time, but a constant re-getting to know each other all the time. I love that. But yeah, the, the, that who am I question? What do I want question? And the toggling of identities, especially for women and wives and mothers and professionals or not professionals, it's just, it's impossible. You cannot win. And so the anchoring point, like, we're, I'm going to hand you a machete and you're going to head off into the woods and you're going to have to carve your own path. But I'll be right here. I'll be with you the whole way, cheering you on, taking dinners when you're gone. Like doing breakfast, making lunches, whatever I got to do in laundry, whatever I got to do that have quote unquote, traditionally been your job for the last 20 years. I got you because I want you to be in the process of rediscovery. Because then I want to get to know her, right? No. I love that. Can I just tell you your man? You're like the model guy, dude. It's awesome. Thank you. It's awesome. It's inspiring to hear a husband who loves his wife like this and wants to be a part of her world, right? That little secret world y'all created. That's awesome, dude. And I want our next 40 years to be playful and spontaneous and that kind of stuff and not this list of I have to, you know, I should. Yes. And you have five kids, right? Yeah. Do you just blow off the fifth when nobody cares? He didn't even care. Just like start doing fun stuff together. I'm not really, but but kind of agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. And if there is, if you sense this fear, this, I don't even know, I don't even know where to start. I don't even know how to start. Man, let me sign you up for dance classes once a week. You go first and she might go one to one class and be like, I hate this, but at least now she's knows not to go down that path and write and give her not permission. That's the wrong word. Give her such encouragement to begin to practice speaking her mind, what she wants, what she thinks is fun. I mean, do this great conversations for the bedroom. Hey, what are three or four things you used to be super into that we don't do anymore? What are three or four things that like when we first got married, we got into a routine and you're like, dude, if we never do that again, I'd be so happy. What are three or four or five things you want to try in the bedroom? Like just begin this play together, right? This is like this is ours. We get to do whatever we want with it. And man, what a magic trip y'all can go on, dude. My last, my last thing I'll say this and I know I'm talking a lot. This one's so fresh for me. I know I'm trying to think off top of my head. One, two, three, four. I have four women in my life that I'm not related to who have been down this, who am I, what I want to be, what I want to back half of my life to be, what have, like those questions, right? And they're with really encouraging partners. And they have been frustrated and almost heartbroken is probably too dramatic of a way to say it, but they've looped all the way around and they really like being home makers. And there's almost a sense of disappointment in themselves that really what they love is making sure everyone's car has gas in it so that they can go do their crazy things out in the world. And if that's where y'all land, then even more amazing. And that will take another round of support cheerleading from your perspective, right? Okay, if that's where she lands, I really just love being here. And now that our kids, 22, I'm going to start a weekly letter writing. I'm going to start visiting more. I'm going to start traveling to see him more. I'm going to be around like, like, that might be where she, what she loves and where she lands. And if so, awesome. That's not a thing to hang your head about for her or for you. That's the thing to celebrate too. It's that sense of becoming, but man, you're a good, good man. Steve, I appreciate you calling. Yeah. And you happen to hit a striker core with me just because I'm, I've, I've been walking alongside my writer diet, amazing woman for years, like wrapping her head around. I got this responsibility, this task. I want to do this. I'm super skilled at these 50 things. She's more talented than me than anything. And also that sense from the world, right? Like you only have worth. If it has a direct deposit attached to it or I can't believe you're letting other kids, other people raise your kids or I can't believe you're walking away from a generation of a century of women fighting for your opportunity to go out in the workplace. And it's just all these other people telling you what to do. And yeah, then it's just like, I just want to turtle up. And, but man, my wife is such a great contributor to the world, to our home, to me, to her friends and colleagues and the people that she helps and supports. People who read her work, like it's just inspiring to be around, but it's a battle. It's a battle. And knowing you, Steve, are going to be right there, right? Or die with your wife, man. We'll give her the anchor point for her to just swan dive off the side of that bridge. So good for you, brother. We come back. A woman asks if she and her husband should tell their kids about a past affair. And if so, win. We'll be right back. When I'm cooking at home, chopping up vegetables, trimming a venison or t-bone steak or when I'm feeling a little bit extra dramatic and cutting up [BLANK_AUDIO] fruit tray. I want to know the knives I'm using will actually do what they're supposed to do. Cut well. This is why I bought my wife the culinary kitchen knives from Montana Knife Company and it's why I use them as much as she does. Montana Knife Company knives are razor sharp right out of the box. They're balanced and they do what they're supposed to do over and over again. They're knives perfected. Montana Knife Company makes their knives right here in the United States in years of experience going to every blade. They come with a free lifetime sharpening guarantee which I've used. I've sent them off and got all my knives right back razor sharp again and these knives will still be sharp when my great-great-kids are cooking with them. Head to mkc.com to see what's available right now and one thing you should know Montana Knife Company knives sell out fast. Sign up for email and text alerts so you can be among the first to know of new releases. That's mkc.com. All right like share subscribe all that good internetty stuff makes a huge difference for everybody in the club. Let's go to Seattle Washington and talk to Andrea. Hey Andrea, what's up? Hi, how are you doing? I'm doing great. How about you? Doing well. Pleasure to talk with you today. You too. Thanks for calling. What's going on? So I need help trying to figure out if we tell our kids about an affair that my husband had a couple years ago. Tell me what's going on. So he had an affair about two years ago and I call it the worst and best thing that ever happened. Kind of blew our marriage up and we did eight months of counseling and we are better than we've ever been and we're in a really great spot. But we've learned a ton and down the road I just I don't know if we should tell our kids if we should tell them part of it all of it. Wait for them to ask if we should come out and tell them together to solve kinds of questions. What's the what's the impetus for wanting to tell them? So my husband was wrongly diagnosed with major depressive disorder and come to find out after if there happened he's actually bipolar. And so we just it was a struggle with his mental health for a decade and he almost he had a suicide note written and was ready to end his life and all of this happened and it kind of blew us up and the best way possible and got him the right help and it's so cool to see him go through all of that and be courageous and be and man that I lost for a long time and with our kids now just with what we've learned about mental health and relationships what part of that should we tell them or should we tell them at all because I know once we tell them their views of us and him will change a lot. Yeah um how old are they now? Right now they're five six and seven. Okay God no no. Not now. Let me say this way absolutely no you don't have to that's y'all that's you and your husband's story where I think it could be a powerful conversation down the road is as your kids get older when it as it becomes age appropriate you begin to slowly um open the lid to your life too in an effort to become 360 degrees you teach your kid I'm a whole person too right and when there's six and seven and two and four or however old that's a great time that they get to see mom or dad weep and they're like why are you crying because mommy's sad today because of because you lost a friend because you got just you know and you know I'm talking about here you got one of the lightning bolts one of the images from the old days and you it happened you're sad and your kids are loving and they curl up on you know like oh mommy don't cry and you say no no crying is okay when you're sad but thank you so much for your right and what you're doing in that lot tiny little glimpse is teaching them oh my mom is a whole person right and it's okay to cry when you're sad it's okay to be upset when you're frustrated and and here is a lived experience of what a emotionally mature adult does with it right and so when your 19 year old comes home from college and is sobbing and says I got cheated on and y'all have a great relationship that you started working a decade and a half before that might be a great moment to sit down and say I've been there right and now you're opening that human experience or your husband may be able to sit down with your 19 year old and say let me tell you let me tell you part of our story and here's what forgiveness looks like and here's the work I had to do to make it right and here's the work your mom had to do to like put both feet back in the boat again in this thing called our marriage like um like that's when those kind of stories can can become really powerful otherwise it feels like y'all have this secret between you and it's y'all feel like it's too heavy to carry and you want to hand it to your kids and say y'all have to carry part of this too and that's y'alls and I would I would suggest as y'all continue to heal and you continue to rebuild this marriage y'all have that y'all begin to set it down it's a part of your story it will always be part of your story but it's not the destination of who y'all are going to be right mm-hmm yeah I can still be heavy sometime yeah totally and and I'll tell you and really like you're not broken because it's still heavy sometimes and there's not something you're not a bad wife and you're not all-in on rebuilding just because some days you can't get out of bed or you're doing something mindless in that picture pops into your head right and you're that doesn't make you that makes you completely and totally human and then you have a game plan on what do I do with that image what I do with what I do what am I gonna do next and your body continues to shift your default setting and be like we weren't safe then but we're safe now right this is healing because that a an unregulated person with bipolar that got misdiagnosed that the affair was not the only thing you were dealing with in that house you know right that was a chaotic time for y'all wouldn't it mm-hmm it was it was really hard and chaotic is the nicest way I could say that right or a better word might be it was a scary time fair yeah survival yeah you got three really young kids or two young kids you find out you're pregnant and then all hell's breaking loose right mm-hmm yeah not a good time and so your body remembers that puts a GPS pin in that and says never forget this Andrea because it could happen again and that's just your body trying to love you well and what you have to say is I get it thank you for trying to care me but I'm good now I'm working towards something different now you know I'm saying yeah I do so do you feel a pressure do you feel dishonest what's the what's the what's the feeling behind the feeling you have I think just after all this happened really struggling with vulnerability and who to be vulnerable to we were really careful who we told sure my family doesn't know so it's like a one day if we decide to tell the kids or if it comes up just kind of opening Pandora's box that way but vulnerability feels amazing too yeah yeah just weighing weighing both of those yeah and like there's a there's a biological cost to secrets right they'll kill you and having people in your life that you can be fully whole with fully real with fully open with is isn't is critical to species survival right you got to have that and we live in a culture that thinks you know everybody has access to everybody's everything all the time and that's just simply not true it's probably very wise that y'all have been told your family and may never tell your family because it's not their business it's not there it's not their marriage and that doesn't make you deceptive or not a good person or whatever that makes you very protective of you and your husband's secret world and that's the right thing for y'all and maybe his parents are more supportive or willing to show up next to y'all like great that's cool yeah every every every it's that's you being not dishonest that you being wise yeah can I tell you a thing that's sitting in the middle of my chest right now yes please the more I listen the more we talk more I talk I'm talking too much today the more I talk and the more I hear you the heavier this is still sitting on you it feels like do you want to be further along than you are I tell me what you're experiencing think I hold this all still really really close yeah and even the people that feel safe to talk to you don't bring it up very often So it's an isolating feeling a lot of the time. >> What is not isolating look like for you? What would that look like? >> Being risky and to open up with people more. >> Okay. >> What does that mean though? >> I feel like there have been a couple opportunities like with my girlfriends that I could have shared but chose not to just for fear of. I don't want them to view like my husband and I differently, and it would be such a shame if they, because a lot of people don't view affairs very, very well. So, and I feel like we have a good people view us as a really strong couple. >> So that's what's going to kill you. >> That's what's going to kill you. >> Because you're not protecting him, and in some ways you're not protecting you, you're protecting the image y'all portray, and that's going to get real, real exhausting carrying that. >> Yeah, that's the actor popping out from behind the curtain on stage in front of the audience being like, it's all great, and there's a fire going on backstage. >> How much, this is just because I've had this conversation with so many men and women, but especially women. Obviously there's the, I don't want people to say bad things about my husband. How much do you carry, and I hear this a lot, you may say, I don't care that at all, that you had a story that had been in your head, either consciously or unconsciously, that if that ever happens to me, I'm gone. And you might have even told stories to yourself about other women who stayed. What a weak lady, I can't believe she's just staying. And then now you're like, oh, I'm her, and I don't want any of my girlfriends to find out. >> I think for me, my husband, I've talked about it, and this affair was 80% him and 20% our marriage, like his mental health. And for me, I felt like I stayed really strong through all of it, and it wasn't my fault. But I think I'm at the point now where I want to make meaning out of this, and I want to share kind of the grit of our story. And he still holds a lot of shame and embarrassment from everything. So I want to, I want to be more open and he's still pretty protective. >> Okay. >> So is that where the conflict is? Is that you want to tell your girlfriends and your husband says don't tell anybody, we're not allowed to tell anybody? Keep it a secret. >> Yeah, I would say. >> So, that to me is next level that you only need to work through. >> Yeah. >> And there's a balance between, like that, yeah, I'll just leave it there. Like that said, that's the next level thing because in a roundabout way, he's asking you to hold his, carry his shame, his embarrassment, his frustration, his image, and that's his to carry. That's y'all as a married couples to protect, but that's his to carry. And in no way am I saying make a big Facebook post about it and not to an Instagram swipe thing with it and. But yeah, you've got to have girlfriends that you can be honest with and exhale in front of. And we weep with. And this is going to sound awful because I'm going to pile on you right now. You're also going to have to sit down with your closest girlfriends and say I've kept something big from you for two years. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. >> Right? >> Mm-hm. >> And the longer that goes, the bigger that conversation gets. >> Mm-hm. >> But especially your kids don't need to be the outlet. Yeah, absolutely not. >> So what's this conversation look like with your husband? >> I think just that of. I can't hold his shame and I'd love to talk about what it looks like to share our story with safe people. >> Mm-hm. >> You can move forward and I don't know, not feel so heavy with this anymore. >> Yeah. >> And I heard you say two things and so hold attention of these two things. There's something about I need some people to sit with me that I trust that fully know me. I do not have that I'm giving them backstage passes they get to see me behind the curtain, right? And there's what I think is a very modern temptation of the only way to make meaning something is to make it famous. To get likes to get audiences to get nods to get tears out of it and that's not always meaning making meaning. Making meaning may be you saying this is I found out I'm a way stronger woman than I thought I was. And here's what I'm going to use that strength moving forward. I may go back to and get a degree in therapy and I'm going to I'm just going to focus on women who've been cheated on. I'm going to focus on wives of husbands with bipolar. I'm going to focus on who knows right, but making meaning and fame are two radically different things. >> Yeah. >> And I don't want you to put a dollar amount or a likes amount or shares amount or a book deal as part of like as a sign for yourself that I've made meaning of this. >> Mm-hm. >> Right. >> Yeah, I like the I've made meaning just I was wastewater than I thought I ever could be. It's pretty cool. >> Well, making me that that's a that's a recognition that's a realization but making meaning is what are you going to do with that strength? >> Yeah. >> Who are you going to love and honor and serve with that strength you have now. >> Which is funny during all of this I was going to school to get my therapy degrees. But now I do couples therapy. >> Nice. >> So meaning right there. >> There you go. >> I mean so okay so I'm talking to a fellow therapist like I'm not a fellow therapist I just I just fake it on on the internet like you what would you tell a client who came in to see you. >> Going through this. >> Yeah. >> Who to the woman in front of you saying I can't carry I've got to be able to share this and have some people in my life that I can talk to. >> And husband says he's still too embarrassed and ashamed and so I'm allowed to tell anybody anything which I'm a strong woman now it's my new identity and I'm still being controlled. >> By this guy's insecurities. >> Mm-hm. >> What would you tell them? >> Gosh, I feel like validate everything. It's strong to be weak. It's it's all okay to feel all of it. It's okay to want to share. You need to share. It's okay to not share with people to like all of it's okay. >> That's the difference between a licensed therapist and me you have to. I could just say what I think you have to follow the code of ethics so that's awesome. But but maybe that's a fun exercise to do or a hard exercise is to. >> Do an empty chair exercise with yourself and put a picture of yourself on empty chair in front of you and. >> Let the chair be the therapist and you tell your story to you and then ask yourself what would I tell me. >> You got to get you got to get some women in your life that you trust some of your closest friends. >> You're becoming somebody you never wanted to be which is somebody who held secrets from those closest to her. >> You're becoming somebody that is not in congruent and it's not in alignment with this. >> Meaning you're making of what happened which is I'm strong. >> And I'm going to do what's right for me for my marriage and for my kids. >> And I'm going to honor and love and support and be friends with my husband. >> And also he's got to carry what's his and I'll carry what's mine. >> And there has to be a coming together there. >> And so if you back all the way out two years lots of diagnostics, lots of management of the true mental health disorder, lots of. >> Like the storm is the storm itself has passed but man we still got a lot of rebuilding to do and that's part of. >> The new marriage after the storm is over right and then we're going to rebuild again and we're going to rebuild again. >> But now you're at the next layer if you will the next level and that is. >> I need some support now I've been holding the same together for two years I need some support. >> And let's have that hard talk. >> Thanks for a call dude you're awesome and it's it's it's inspiring to see two people go get the help they need do the work and to prioritize. >> This thing called be a married and it's messy and ugly and gritty and like stub your toe skin like it's it's painful. >> And I'm it's it's amazing to watch you walk through it Andrea thanks for the call. >> We come back a man asks how to stop missing his ex in laws and feeling betrayed by their loyalty to their daughter will be right back. >> I know some of you out there are hurting and I mean really hurting your marriage is falling apart in real time in you and your spouse both know it. You're watching a son or a daughter disappear into addiction and you feel completely powerless. Some of you are carrying trauma so deep and heavy, it's affecting every area of your life, and you've tried everything you can do and you can't seem to shake it. When things feel this desperate, a weekly therapy session might not be enough. That's why I want to tell you about the Vine and Root program from Capstone Wellness. These are three to five day on-site therapy intensives for couples, families, and individuals who need more than a standard 50 minute therapy session once a week. You'll work with your Capstone's team before you even arrive, so the moment you get there, the real work can begin. Once you're there, you won't just talk about problems, you'll start to get to the root and heal them. Every single day you'll sit with a therapist who's completely focused on you. You'll do the deep work that leads to real change so that you leave with hope, a plan, and the tools to keep moving forward. I know the people at Capstone personally. If someone I love needed this level of care, Capstone would be my first call because I trust them in the work they do. If this is you, don't wait. Go get help now. Go to capstonewellness.com/delony and click on Vine and Root to learn more. That's capstonewellness.com/delony or click the link in the description. Yo, okay, so listen, I have heard you, and I've started creating me and my team here have started creating tools that are free that are just for you, and there are tools that y'all are asking me for. What is this? What is this weekly rundown? What is this some conflict framework? Like, how do we have a hardcore? We're building them out and we're just giving them to you because you've been with us for so long. You're trying to do the working house and I love you guys for it. One of the things that we've created is the weekly rundown. I'm always, like, man, listen, if you and your spouse, you and your girlfriend, you and your boyfriend will just get together at the beginning of a week and be honest about reality. Here's what's on our calendar. Here's what our work week is going to look like. Here's the expenses that are coming our way. We've got a dentist appointment. We've got an oil change. We've got to get two kids to the doctor. We've got, we've got, like, and hey, what about us? We got to put us on the calendar whether we're going to put sex on the calendar twice this week or once this week or not this week or we're going to put, um, this time after the kids go to bed, we're just going to watch an old episode of the office where we're going to plan it now and even when we quote, unquote, don't feel like it. We're going to walk through that thing together because we decided at the beginning of the week, here's who we're going to be this week, right? So we created the weekly rundown. It's very similar to what me and my wife do on a pretty regular basis. Here's a calendar. Here's the stuff going on. What's your work week look like for me? She'll ask me, do you, how many shows do you have? Do you have a lot of recordings? Do you have a lot of media? Are you traveling? Ask her like you got this thing you go, what do you got going on? Are you writing a lot and it just aligns us and then we are united before the chaos begins. So it's completely for free. Click the link in the show notes. It's my gift to you. Take this thing and use it for just a month. Just once a week any night of the week, any morning of the week, me and my wife usually do it on either Saturday mornings or Sunday evenings, but just do it together and begin staring the week at the face in the face and commit to not letting the week happen to you, but you and your spouse are happening to that week and it just reimagines your whole marriage united. So click the link in the show notes for the weekly rundown. Go check it out. It's got to Charlotte, North Carolina, and let's talk to Thomas. What's up, Thomas? Hey, and I've got a new one for you. I miss my accent loss. No. Nice. Tell me about it. New territory here, yeah. Yeah. So I was really close with my accent loss that like a second family. I mean, I have a really good home life growing up. Great parents, the parents you could ever put forth. So it's not like they were replacing like a bad situation for me or anything like, you know, from family growing up. But they were just really great people really just brought me right into their family, you know, from my ex father-in-law and ex mother-in-law to my ex-brother-in-law, sister-in-law, they're like brothers and sisters, it was just a really good, it was just great. My ex-wife ended up having at least two, possibly three affairs with guys co-workers at work. And I absolutely just wrecked me. But I accepted the divorce was over or that the marriage was over and you know, just went through with getting a divorce. And it was just, it was rough. They, even her family was very, just furious hurt by what she did, everything came out. And I actually didn't tell them, you know, she did. So it's like I was running the spread, anything. And to the point where they spoke to me, personally, just like, hey, we're really concerned about her and what she did. And just as I've seen, this show's so shocking and they even wrote my parents a letter just to apologize and for what their daughter did. I mean, it just, they were just heartbroken, but so fast forward, maybe about a year after our divorce was final. She ended up marrying one of the guys that she was saying when we were still married. Her, and this is what really just killed me, man. For a family, even after being so supportive of me and our kids and everybody, what we'd had to get one through, and they went halfway across the country to celebrate this huge wedding they had. And just seeing pictures of, bro, you got to stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, get out, get out. Yeah. Get out. You're killing yourself, man. You're killing yourself. Yeah. Like I'm heartbroken for you, dude, yeah. But this is about missing them. This is about, but it's missing. It's way more than that, dude. I heard Ellen Langer, she's a famous research professor, like one of the pioneers, and she said, and I'm challenging your language on purpose because I want to get to the root. She said, yeah, how much is one plus one? And everyone's like, well, doc, too. And she said, well, sometimes, to which I'm like, oh, here we go, some little trickster. And she said, one pile of laundry plus one pile of laundry is one pile of laundry. It's context. Right? Right. So you didn't get a second family. Yeah. You got an even bigger, awesome one. Yeah. And somebody blew it up. Yeah. What was doesn't exist anymore. And as heartbroken as you are, and as mad as you are, and as you've run the scenarios and had the imagination of her with other guy, like all of that, what you really want is a teammate. But think through it, like not logically, nothing about this is logical. It's just so powerful, the emotions and the feelings, like did you want her dad to shun his daughter? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Honestly, it's. There's zero consequences for what that only she did to me, but to our kids are young kids, you know. And so you got kids too, huh? Yeah. Young kids. And it's just like, I just honestly, I hate every holiday now. Yeah. I, I live for January 2nd, where Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, everything is done. And I can just, I just, I just hate it. And that was always one of the most favorite times of year for me. And I just hate it now. And I don't think you hate it now. I think you're grieving, man. There's a difference in like three years now, you know? All right. Maybe, but I, but here's what I want you to do when you're planning, like we're heading into the fall right now, as you and our tick in this call, right? I want you as you begin to plan ahead, because you're a single dad now part of the time. And as you're planning ahead for what Halloween will look like and false school stuff and Thanksgiving and Christmas, I want you to get a picture of your ex-wife in an eight and a half by 11 picture and frame it and put it down on your desk or on your table. And before you start mapping out what this fall is going to look like, I want you to look at that picture and be like, you know what? You ruined my life. I want you to keep ruining it. I want you to keep ruining my life. Make me hate what was one of my most favorite things. ruin my precious, limited time with my children. And then hopefully you'll feel how ridiculous it is to allow her to continue to speak and poison your life. She's still in bed with you, dude. She's still at the kitchen table with you ruining your life. She's already done it. She walked away. I'm with you, dude. I would have hoped her dad would have been like, no, shun, but he's not, that's his daughter, right? - Yeah. - And this is gonna sound like a real punch in the gut for you. The greatest gift you for your kids, now, not before, but now, is that mom is regulated. - Yeah. - Right? - Yeah. - 'Cause as healthy as a mom as they could possibly have in this crap show, the better off they're gonna be. - Right, right. And I guess I realized that, you know, and it's just a part of me, that I just feel like I didn't do anything wrong in all the consequences of it. And I know there's give and take on any relation all that, but like, I feel like I suffer all the consequences and she and he are celebrated. - Okay, can you change any of that? - No. - No, okay, that's all you need right there. Be a mad about it, be a frustrated about it, be an angry about it, yelling to the heavens, it's unfair, it's not right. None of that changes the reality that you find yourself in. And so all of the energy you're using in that type of, I hate my life, I'm alone, I walked down the hall, half the month, and it's silent, and it shouldn't be silent. I got little kids. It shouldn't be silent here in this house. - Yeah. - All that grief, all that energy, you can't, man, you can just keep, you can put it in a giant, Yeti, and just chug it all day long. - Yeah. - Or you can put your head up against their door in the room that they're not sleeping in this particular week and sob your eyes out and then ask yourself, what am I gonna go do now with this time, this energy? What kind of man can I become so that when the truth of this thing slowly unfolds over the next, by the way, about 20 years, and your 25 year old son or your 25 year old daughters having breakfast with you one day, that they will be able to go. My dad is just a straight-a bad ass. - That's the hope, you know? - It's not, no, no, no, no. What's the old saying, a hope without a plan is a wish? - Yeah. - At some point you have to decide, I'm gonna keep waking up every morning and drinking poison, hoping something bad happens to her. Or I'm gonna go drinking poison. You've made yourself nuts, brother. - Yeah, and honestly, I don't know how to not be in nuts. - What's your custom waiting for? - Well, being nuts is part of it. Give yourself some grace, I'm giving you grace, somebody blew your life up and then just moved on, right? And so there is consequence. There's significant consequence. It just doesn't look like it. And if all, the only access you have is whatever leveraged fancy car she pulls up and to drop the kids off with, whatever Instagram highlights or Facebook posts you see, then you're gonna backfill what you see with stories about how great her life is and how bad your life is. It is not as good as you think it is. - Yeah. - And over the course of the next few years, your kids' eyes will begin to open up. - Yeah. - And hopefully they have an anchored rooted father whose house got blown to smithereens. He wept in the front yard. He spent a couple of years just dazed and confused and then he got work gloves out and started cleaning the yard up and rebuilding the house. How he wanted it built. - Yeah. - And so, bro, what if I said your homework assignment is to go sign up for two things twice a week, you gotta go do it. What would you sign up for? - Pick anything. - You know, I already go to the gym regularly. - That's the, I'm not, that's for you. You gotta go do something that people will notice when you're not there. What would that be? Because you go to the gym and you got headphones in, you're just, you're taking your isolation to a different environment, but you're still all alone. - You know, honestly, that's a, that's a good question. I don't know what I could do to go where people would miss me or that, I feel, and I know this is not reality, but it just feels like, it just feels like I'm just checking the days off. You know, Monday, check done, Tuesday, check done, and I look back and years have passed, and it's like I'm still just checking days off of my life. - That's, you know what? I've been having this conversation with folks for 20 years, and that's the best picture I've ever been painted of that. You're exactly right. And you're at a fork in the road. You can check the rest of your life off. You can do that, brother. - Yeah. - Or, you cannot let your life happen to you, but you can say, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm getting back in the game. What game do I want to play? - Yeah. - Man, it's tough. It's, I can't even, bro, I can't even wrap my head around how hard it is. I say this with all of my heart, I wouldn't trade places with you for all of my in the world. Like, you're in hell, and you've been there for a while. Don't bring a picture of her to the pit, you're in to the edge of the pit, and look up and let her lear over at you anymore. - Yeah. - Yeah, that's a good point. - What's your custody arrangement? - 50, 50. - Half a week, are we going make off? How does it work? - It's, since we live in the same town, it's, we usually do three days with me, three days with her. It's kind of, it's, it's something we kind of came up with ourselves, and the boy is really like it that way. So it's just been a good fit. Are you, are y'all able to go to parent conferences together? Are y'all able, are your kids old enough for that kind of stuff yet? - Yes, yes. - Are y'all able to go to a little league practice or whatever together? - Yeah, there's no, I just, she doesn't really start drama with me, and I don't start with her. So we can, we are fine to be in the same room together and communicate about the kids and stuff like that. It's not, there's no tension in that. - Okay. I want to tell you, I honor you for that, brother, I'm proud of you. - It's hard, I mean, I haven't been there, but I can only imagine I would have gone to jail a few times. So, if I saw this other dude, so like you're, you're handling this externally, really impressively. And your kids are the direct beneficiary of it. So what does it look like to, I'm making this up, but you get the kids Thursday, Friday, Saturday, what does it look like Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday? To one night you sign up for whatever league, another night you sign up for, I'm, did it again, I'm, did I'm making stuff up? Chest club, jujitsu, I don't care, softball league, I don't care. But you're gonna start putting yourself back in this thing called life. - Yeah. - I'm gonna get three dudes from work and we're gonna go hike every Wednesday night, every Tuesday, I'm gonna go, like, I'm just, I'm gonna force myself, especially when I don't feel like it. - Can not miss. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Right. - I do need to do more of that consistently, I do. - Change your language, brother. Starting today, change your language. You're, you're done needing. - Yeah. - You get to now. - Yeah. - You, you get one lap around this crazy track called life. She took four years from you. That's it. Peer it at the end of that sentence. She gets no more days of your life. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And sign up and have it be ridiculous. Find yourself two weeks into a ceramics class and being like, what the hell am I doing here? Like find yourself, find yourself laughing in the car. Like, it's terrible. - Yeah. - Then to feel emotions again, other than anger and sadness. - Yeah. - Yeah. It's tough, but I have to do it. You get to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Same is lift and heavy weights. It's hard. But you get to. Yeah. Yeah. And, man, your life will transform, and because you did the work to refill your pitcher, you will have endless energy, joy, goofiness when your knucklehead of kids show up on Thursday Friday Saturday. Yeah. And then you can be a laser beam for them. And when they leave Saturday afternoon, you can have that complete burnout. I'm sad, I miss them, or you might be like, "Oh, thank God." Right? Like, whatever you feel. And you can go to a movie. You can just say Saturday nights are my get a pizza and watch nothing on TV. Yeah. Or every Saturday night, I run five miles alone, because I don't care. Right? But it's just you saying, "I'm happening to life. Not life is happening to me." Yeah. That's, yes, I agree with everything, all of that, that there's no way to think or feel your way through it. You have to go do it. Yeah, I've proven that to myself the past four years. Okay. We're going to continue to think. We're going to continue to feel that's part of the human experience, but we are going to take number one priority is action. Yeah. As my buddy, Michael Easter says, "Go do something." It doesn't matter what that is, I'm going to start living my life. And you're going to make friends, you're going to meet other, you're going to meet somebody. You're going to start to feel laughter again, you're going to start to feel nervous again, you're going to start to feel bored again. And that's the human experience. I hate this happened to you, and I am super jazzed up to see what you do next. We'll be right back. Hey, all of you stay at home, parents out there, listen up. 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I've used Xander for most of my adult life, and my wife and I sleep better knowing that both of us are covered with life insurance, and we both know that our family will be protected. What you do is irreplaceable, but if something happens to you, term life insurance helps protect your family no matter whose name is on the paycheck. Get this done today by going to Xander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free quote. That's Xander with a Z dot com or click the link in the description. All right, Kelly, we have a mind, am I the problem? But I have another question to ask you before this. This is a new segment that I just invented called, is it me? Yes, yes or yes? Is it me or can we be done with portals? Oh, like every doctor's office has a portal and every. Not only at my kids' school is not only does the school have a portal, does my kid have one. Every teacher has a portal inside the portal. And from that portal, if a certain check box is checked, I get email correspondence for all. And then there's the doctor portal and there's the dentist portal. Oh, you had to go to a different doctor, well, you have to have the HMO portal that then goes to the different doctor portals. Listen, Kelly, listen. We had this badass invention called a file cabinet and an even more awesome invention called Manila folders and it seemed to work great for a long time. If I never see another portal, I would be a happy guy. You won't be a happy guy then, hate to tell you. So is it me? Do you need to get over my portalness? No, it's not just you but also don't think there's a way around it. So my daughter has a doctor's appointment, an online doctor's appointment in the morning, just to check up for some medication stuff and she's going to be out of town with my husband. I keep all the portals. I'm the one that has all the portals. I have all that, but he's going to be doing the doctor's appointment. So I had to get in the portal, get in the logins because he can't do the doctor's appointment with her without it. Well, okay. That's the other thing about freaking portals every like it seems like every nine minutes. I'm sure it's a little bit longer than that, maybe 18 minutes. I get some update that I have my passwords expired. I have to change my password. So I change it and they're like, well, that's what it was last time. And so you can't use that one, but don't use the one on your bank and don't use the one on your retirement account, not your life insurance and not your job. I got portals at work. I got portals everywhere. You what else? You know what else? I think we're like being rounded up by big portal. I think big portals coming for us. And I also think this, there's another thing going on in this country that I'm really pissed off about and it's the attack on knobs. There's no more knobs. You know what I want in my car? A volume knob. I just want to turn it. The other night I lost my Roku remote. I just, you know what I watched on YouTube, like an hour and a half, whatever it was on. A dribble. Because it was no knob on it. I just want to push a thing and say change and they're like, sorry, you have to have our magical little, little frickin device. You what else? There's no knobs on doors anymore. Now it's just like, beep, beep, beep, beep and it, can we just, can we just, man? That's why I have kids. They can go change the channel for me. We don't need all this other stuff. And God help us. I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, if I have one more portal to log into. If I get one more email from like a four years ago teacher who's got like theater practice and I'm like, get me out of your portal. Alright, so my other problem, go for Kelly. Actually on that note, I think we're just going to end by me saying, hey folks, we need some more of my other problems. And we have a new way for you to do that. So you can still, if you tell them to go to a portal, I think you got our portal. You're off the show. We will. Hey, I'm Mark my words. There will never be a Deloney portal, ever, ever. I'll put my foot down. I'll quit. I'll just, I will go back to the street corner, yelling out like mental health advice where I used to be before they found me, y'all found me like, we can't, Kelly, we can't, I can't do it. I can't. I want a button. I want a knob and I want a file cabinet. I don't know why that is, we've spent a trillion dollars solving that problem and it was never a freaking problem to be solved. It wasn't a problem. It wasn't a problem. I don't need to talk into my remote. I don't, I don't need to tell it because, you know why, pushing a button isn't a big deal. It's just not a big deal, it's not what, dude, listen, all right, say what you're going to say. What are you going to say? Press the button like 10 times and then head to turn it off and then turn it off. I'm not doing great. What? I never noticed. You seem fine. I thought the worst thing in the world was a square key, just in it makes me crazy, square key drivers. It's not, it's the portals. That's taken over. It's taken over. All right. I'm done. Go ahead. By the way, you have spouses of two people in this room that drive those? I know, but I now that's a now on the job, like on the application because I will weed you out. There's no way Alex you would have made it through if I hadn't known that. We weren't married yet, so. Oh, yeah. It was just a zebra print key. It's even worse. Okay. My husband's is just black and it was a, your husband has one? Well, it was a default because it was a car. Your husband's the coolest guy. I know. It was because we had a car that died and then so my son had it and it was kind of one of those like he ended up having to drive it for a little while, so kind of a thing, yeah. Because the car he had died, so and my son bought a car, so he ended up driving it. Anyway, so if you haven't admired the problem, I'm speechless. I doubt that very, very seriously, very seriously doubt it. If you haven't admired the problem, you can still email us in John, at johndolone.com/ask. You can still fill out the form. We will still 100% take those, but you can also call us at, but with two T's, eight, four, four, six, nine, three, three, two, nine, one, leave us a voicemail. 60 seconds. Do that number again, eight, four, four, six, nine, three, three, two, nine, one, leave a voicemail. Keep, try to keep it around a minute, if you can, and at the beginning, say your name where you're called. or whatever name and the happy location you want to choose and tell us, I'm calling with a My The Problem. That way we know immediately, 'cause I get a transcript of the voicemails, that way I know immediately, that's what this is for. Ask your question and it has to be a question that we can answer without any follow-up. So it can't be something that requires 20 minutes of back and forth. Can't be one of the questions we take on the show. Y'all've heard enough of these in My The Problems to Know. It's gotta be just like, hey, am I wrong? Is my mother-in-law bad or, you know, whatever? Just get to the, ask the question and we might play your voicemail on the show and then juggle respond to it. - That would be awesome. - So that'd be amazing. - And then you respond with the correct answer to my response. - Exactly. - With the same person answer. - Yes. - So, yeah, send in your, in My The Problem voicemails, but can't wait to get 'em, it's gonna, I can't wait. And join me in the fight against big portal. Together we can bring back file cabinets and knobs. Love you guys, bye. (rock music)