Caller: “We Don’t Have Time for Our Marriage”

[MUSIC] So my husband has a full time job and then we both work for our church. Now I'm a full time student and I'm in my internship. We both kind of realize, wow, we've been nonstop going since we've been married. >> But it feels like your life is happening to you. Everything else you are doing is something you are deciding to do. [MUSIC] >> What's going on? What's going on? This is John, the Dr. John Deloni show coming to you from Nashville. Tennessee taking your calls on your mental and emotional health. Your marriage as your kids, whatever you got going on in your life. If you want to be on the show, click the link in the show notes wherever you're listening or watching this show and we will get you on. It's got to Richmond, Virginia and talk to Hannah. What's up, Hannah, how are you doing? >> I'm so good, how are you? >> I'm saying, I'm so good, what's going on? >> Hey, yeah, my question is, how do my husband and I say deeply connected despite having really busy life schedules? >> Tell me, were you indulged me for a second? >> Yeah. >> Okay, tell me, I'm going to write it down, okay? >> Okay. >> Tell me what's on your schedule right now that makes it hard to connect. >> Yeah, so? >> Be as specific as you can. >> Okay, so my husband has a full-time job, has been working all day during the day on the weekdays and then we both work for our church and so that takes up most of our weekends to think like every Sunday is pretty much we're churching, I like to say, all day. And on Saturdays, we sometimes have time to connect but usually it gets filled up with other activities like one. Saturday is most of the time, if it does get taken up, it's either by my husband's also in the Army reserves and so he has training once a month for that and that takes up usually a Friday, Saturday and a Sunday and then if it's not that, usually it's something ministry related. I'm the youth director at our church and so usually we have events on Saturdays. >> Do you get paid for this? >> Yes. >> Like as a full-time job or as a quarter-time job, how does that work? >> Yeah, it's a part time to be really transparent. We get paid each individually 750 a month. >> Okay. Do you all need that money? >> I would say yes, it covers our rent for where we're living and utilities and stuff. >> But I mean, do you need it? Do you want it? Yes, of course. I don't care how much money you have, everyone wants an extra $1,400 but here's, let me back all the way out, two things, one, you can't help a full-time job, somebody's got to work a full-time job. Do you have a full-time job during the week also? >> I don't have a job right now, I'm a full-time student in my master's program and I'm in my internship. >> Well, also put that on the list, that's a full-time, that's a busy thing too. >> Yeah. >> How old are y'all? >> I'm 23 and he's 29. >> Okay. That leads me to the second thing. So some of this sounds seasonal, right? He's in the reserves working a full-time job, you're in graduate school, plus doing an internship on top of your graduate school, that's a busy season, this season comes to an end. >> Right. >> But I also hear regularly of people ministering, it's not even a word, ministering themselves to death, or ministering themselves as a way to anesthetize the relationships they have at home. And so if you back all the way out, maybe the greatest gift you could give your church community is that you and your husband have a right or die anchored marriage over the long hole. >> Right. >> And if y'all are in a financial season where do we are scratching and clawing every penny matters, then we have to say, okay, for this season we are making this choice. What other choices can we make? And those may look like Saturdays are completely off limits, period. Or there is no TV in our house and there's no phone in our house because those are going to take up whatever precious seconds we have left during this wild season. >> Yeah. >> But it feels like your life is happening to you, and I guess I just want to give you some agency to back all the way out of it and say, except for the full-time job of the military service, everything else y'all are doing is something y'all are deciding to do. >> Right. >> And that always means on the flip side is y'all could decide to do other stuff. But every one of those decisions just comes with a cost. We may have less disposable income, but we can go on more bike rides and hikes together or go fishing together, whatever. Or we are going to miss all the TV shows that everybody talks about, but we are going to have lots of making out time. Like y'all get to pick, right? >> Yeah. >> Do you feel like he's in? >> Yeah, it's really interesting that you mentioned hiking, because that's something that I'm really into. I love getting outdoors and hiking, and we've been married for a little over three years now. And so one of the first things that I said, he would love to spend time with you, like going hiking, going out in nature, and he loves amusement parks. He loves going roller coasters. I do too, but most of our vacation, most of our away time has been those things as opposed to the things that I really enjoy, and we've talked about it. And just over this past week, he's been really, I guess, intentional in trying to see what I desire as well. He's noticed he even made the statement, I think last week, he was like, man, I feel like I really failed as a husband over the last three years, because I've really only been living my life, and I've kind of just drug you along with me. So that was a, that was a kind of a heavy moment for us, where we both kind of realized both that and like, wow, we've been non-stop going, and since we've been married. So can I just tell you congratulations? Oh, thank you. You all are at level two now, right? My hope is that people figured this out in the first six months, like, oh, I didn't just marry somebody, and they're now going to be an accessory to this life I wanted to be living. Right. But me, gosh, 12 years maybe, 10 years to figure this out. So good on you, that's impressive for you. You're still more than half a decade ahead of where I was, me and my wife, so what I want you to reimagine in this way and you and your husband, and I'll announce it here. This is the, finally, after three years of working on it, this in the Christmas season, and it's going to be a very limited run, but I've got a marriage kit. It's the exact rebuild that me and my wife use every year. But it's to say, okay, here was our old marriage, it's over. This is a new year. We've never been married and dot, dot, dot. What I want you and your husband to do is to swipe the deck clean and say, okay, we've got this new revelation. We've been running non-stop and actually we've been chasing, you've been chasing the life that your husband wants to lead and he recognized it himself. He called it out and said, I've let you down, I've let us down. It's not just going to be about, okay, let's go hiking instead of rollercoastering. It's going to be about swiping the whole thing off the table and saying, okay, we get to choose what our marriage looks like and feels like, what do we want to do next. And if that means I'm going to take a semester off of grad school because I miss you or I'm in my internship, I'm almost there, like, we're going to have, you get what I'm saying, like that love or of intentionality, because a lot of what you'll have on your plate is choices. Yeah, and that's a good, really better way to look at it because I'm done with my internship and next month, so that'll give us some time to really have those conversations. And I think we actually had a conversation a few days ago about ministry and he brought up the same thing that you just did, like, do we really need this? Do I really need to have, because the ministry has been something that's been kind of causing a lot of stress and tension, usually when we come home, our conversations are about church. They're about going on a church and that fills up our home time and that's been a struggle. We've had seasons of trying to be really intentional about not talking about church at all at home. And then it's kind of just slowly creeps back in. And so what if you, you all, you all set up a dinner this week, you all have kids? We do not. Okay, great. So set up a dinner this week and y'all go. And I want you to give each other 30 days, give each other a month and put on the calendar. We're gonna come back together at the end of August when my internship is over. But here's the questions we wanna answer. Number one, what are our family values? What are we gonna say? Like when people think of us and we're not in the room, what are they gonna say about us? We are people who and put three, five, 10, 20 out here, how many you put on there. The more you have, the more complicated it gets. But, and then the second one is how do we want our home to feel every single day when we get home? And we get to choose to a large degree what that looks like and feels like. And how do we make our home the shelter from the chaos it is the world outside of there. And it might mean for the next year, once a month you'll have the youth group over to your house, but y'all aren't in any official capacity. You need to stop working at the hospital and y'all need to be patients for a season. Mm. Or you're dedicating your husband's serving so much, you're serving so much, plus you're working, you're serving yourselves into this, like drift into this disconnection. Let's serve ourselves and serve each other first. So that we can be of service to our greater communities. Yeah. But give each other a couple of weeks to think on it, get through your internship. You're gonna graduate. What are you studying? I'm actually studying to be a marriage and family therapist. Oh God, help you. This ought to be fun. Right. Excellent. This rebuild will be perfect. Yeah. So because you'll be able to speak with some authenticity to clients moving forward. And plus, I mean, you're done with your internship, but you're now you're gonna start working for free for the next two years, right? Right. Or probably paying somebody to do clinical hours so that you can go get your certifications and stuff and licensure and stuff. Right. Yeah, this is a great opportunity to have to practice who do we want to be? And what do we want this house to feel like? And so what must be true for our house to feel like this? Oh, here. And just remember every single choice you make is gonna come with trade-offs. It's gonna come with the dramatic or his consequences. They're gonna come with things. We're gonna miss out on TV shows, but we're not gonna have a TV 'cause we're gonna spend every precious moment we have with you just a few looking at each other's eyes, playing games, being silly, making out all over this house. Or we're gonna do ministry all day Sunday too. And that's gonna mean we're gonna, our time's gonna be extra precious. Or we're done doing ministry stuff. Our weekends are too precious. And once a month we're gonna go to roller coaster and the other month we're gonna go on a big long hike. Y'all get to decide this man. And you're still young and figuring it out. But man, the fact that y'all called it eight, three years in, we're on the wrong track. Let's swipe the deck. Let's rebuild the sink from the floor up. Good on y'all. It's awesome y'all are in the right place. Thanks so much for the call. When we come back, a man asks how to embrace becoming a stay-at-home dad without feeling like he's lost his role as the provider. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Hell. Hey, my friends, the Better Hell just released their annual state of stigma report. It's full of all sorts of data about why so many people avoid getting help for their mental and emotional health challenges. And here's a data point that stood out to me. More than three out of four Americans reported anxiety or depression symptoms over the previous two weeks. If that's you and your caring stress, anxiety, or depression or symptoms of those things, just talking to someone can help more than you could ever imagine. I want you to try Better Hell. Better Hell was an online therapy platform that matches you with one of their 30,000 plus license therapists based on your goals and preferences. It's easy and it's convenient. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist you're matched with isn't the right fit, you can switch it any time for no extra cost. Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney and get 10% off. That's Better Help, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. Hey, it's Deloney. Listen, no matter what you do, your personal information is everywhere. If you take your car to the shop, if you buy something on the internet, if you buy something at a local store, you always have to supply all of your personal information, your home address, your phone number, your email. It is everywhere. Your personal information is all over the place. And that's why I use and recommend Delete Me. Nobody thinks about what's being done with all of that information after you give it away. I'll tell you what's being done with it. Hundreds of data broker websites are collecting, posting, and buying and selling your personal information without your permission. And most of us don't even know what's happening. Delete Me finds your personal information on all of these data broker websites and their privacy experts get it removed for you, making you less vulnerable to personalized scams and spam. Delete Me will keep monitoring and removing your information throughout the year, and they will send you reports showing what they found and what they've removed. If I'm being honest, I wouldn't have even known where to start. Delete Me is taking care of all of it. And listen, given away your information is often unavoidable in this modern world, but Delete Me helps you take back control. Go to joindeleteMe.com/deloney and get 20% off an annual plan. That's joindeleteMe.com/deloney. All right, let's go out to Minneapolis, Minnesota, and talk to T.O. Double D. What's up Todd? How are we doing? Good. How are you today? I'm good, man. What's going on? So I'm mid-40s. I'm married, and I have a two-year-old daughter. For the past two years, my wife has done a stay-at-home mom, and I've been working a full-time job. But we have now decided to switch roles where she's going to take a full-time job. And she started with both accountants. And I'm going to step back from full-time work and be a stay-at-home dad. For we figure 18 months to two years. And financially, we're on baby step seven, so I'm not so worried about the financial side. But it's the coming to a grip with sort of an abrupt change, right? I've been a provider, been a worker, and a saver, kind of strongly identified with that. My whole life, or my whole adult life. And now I'm doing something that obviously requires work, but it's not renumeratives. So trying to think through and process that and still feel like this is working for us and works for me. And it doesn't challenge my sense of identity, or maybe my sense of identity needs to adapt. That is what I'm dealing with right now. Yeah, I'm hearing three threads here. The thread number one is you anchor your value, your worth. You answered the question, what am I worth with a number? And that is a recipe for psychological implosion every time. The second thing is you put a lot-- I don't want to put too much stock into what I'm feeling here, ironically. But your feelings matter a lot, meaning you're led by them. And the third thing here is you're trying to hang on to what was in a completely new context. That doesn't exist anymore. And so yeah, all three of those things are going to have to have a pretty radical transformation here. So here's what it looks like. You have to answer the question, who am I? Who do I want to be? What does my role look like? What does masculinity look like? What does fatherhood look like? What does marriage look like? And you've identified that in the past with a number. And so you're going to have to hold court with yourself and ask, OK, beneath the number, who am I? And it might be redefining a couple of terms. I'll walk you through that in a second. The second thing you're going to have to do is let your feelings be your feelings. You're going to feel uncomfortable. You're going to feel at a loss. You're going to feel useless. You're going to feel like you're not contributing. All those feelings are going to come. Let them come, man. If you try to stave those off, that's a recipe for addiction. That's a recipe for numbing out. It's a recipe for resentment, rage, all those things. Let those feelings come and already have a pre-established-- here's what my next right move is going to be-- in spite of those feelings because of the person, this back to this identity statement. Here's what I'm going to be. You what I'm saying? Yeah, I totally understand what you're saying. Don't avoid those feelings. They're coming, brother. They're probably already here, right? They're coming. And so feel them and then go to the next right thing. And if they continue to show up, then they are signals. They're alarms. They may be pointing you like, hey, we had this plan. The plan we laid out when we-- like any good military operation, we had a plan. And right when we got in there, then we learned on the ground, the plan changed. The plan's got to change. So cool. We'll change it. Right. So tell me what you think of this word provide. Well, I think a lot of that stems from-- I was raised in a sort of environment of Stun and descendant of Italian immigrants worked really well. hard just like the mail, like one-out. Went out and really hard at home, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And I have a very strong sense of duty and honor to my family. Okay. And there is this sense of going against changing things up a little bit. Even if it's temporary 18 months, two years. I mean, that's sort of a blip, right? Maybe in one month, but one's counter to a sort of echos that I was raised with. And so it sort of feels irresponsible. There's this level of irresponsibility. Who's story is that? That's definitely my family's story. Okay. Definitely handed down to me. So here's what I want you to make space for. And I have one in my bag right here underneath this desk that I'm sitting at. But it's something I carry with me all the time. I want you to write down those stories when they pop into your head and they will pop into your head all the time, especially at the beginning. And I want you to ask yourself, whose story is this? Or another way to say it, Michael Singer wrote an amazing book about this, but that the voice isn't yours, isn't you? Who's saying that? And what it does is it creates psychological space between the voice and your body's reaction to that voice. Okay. And that keeps your heart rate from taking. And by the way, this is a practice. This isn't something you're just going to flip a switch on. You practice separating yourself from that voice. Those voices. Yeah. What a loser. You're not a man. A whole generation of men did like worked really hard for you to what sit at home and hold a two-year-old like all those voices write those down and get them out of your body and look at them. Examiner, are they telling the truth? Is this real? Yeah, for sure. And whose voice is that? And, be honest, is this voice right? Sometimes the voices are right. And I think this word provide, again, we distill everything down into numbers these days. Because the days of us, at least right now, maybe not forever, but right now, we're not out slaying dragons. And we're not out like because I have bigger arms, I'm going to work the plow, right? And so sometimes the greatest gift I can give my wife in terms of provision. Yes, there is a there is a financial reality to our home, you and your wife. For those of you don't know, baby step seven, it's a Ramsey solutions term. That means you're all doing very well financially. Y'all are millionaires, right? Pretty, I would say pretty close. Okay, so you all set yourselves up financially. So you can do this and it's not going to be a financial burden to your family. You and your wife have co-made this decision together. But that means maybe the greatest thing you can provide is space. One way I frame it is being a provider means also allowing base for my wife to pursue her career. Yeah, so if you look at it like you're going to provide, like there is a, I'm going to go hold back the world so that she has space to go do her thing. Yes, yeah, that's providing. It looks different. And it doesn't like you said, it doesn't have a number attached to it, but it's still got value. And so the number doesn't have a title. And I may not have a give if you need that, give yourself a title. I am, I am co CEO of this home print out a certificate and frame it. You accountants love your frames on your walls. Put them up there, man. And have your wife give you a monthly performance review and I'm being silly, but, but not really, you all get to decide what this looks like for you. Tell me about this 18 month to two year time frame. Are you, are you running from something? Are you burned out? Are you sick of your job? Are you thinking of doing something else? Or actually, that is a big part of it. Okay, tell me about that. I've pretty, so I've had pretty much a 20 years straight career in a Karen. Okay. And I don't know. I would say accounting can marry you down after a while. Absolutely. I've worked in various environments, but the theme is the same. It's sort of it's start to get you hit a burnout period. Okay. And I hit my burnout period. I'm still actually working some part time hours, you know, doing some stuff for people to bring in a little flow, but I stopped full-time work because I, you know, I just hit a burnout point. And the thinking is where we are financially work after 18 months, two years when say my daughter starts preschool. Doesn't have to look like sitting at a cubicle 40 hours a week. Correct. And I'm trying to reimagine what it will look like in two years. So let me, the fact that you're asking a question tells me your way ahead of the game. And I want to give you a hack question to ask. Okay. And I hate the word hacks with all my guts, but there's a few situations when a question can cut through years of wondering and pondering. Okay. Thinking back to the accounting you've done, you've seen the inside of businesses, you've seen the inside of people's homes, you've seen the inside of people's the way they move and manage money and what it means to them. You've seen a lot of human interaction underneath all the numbers you've been working for the last 20 years, right? Yeah. So when you think of all of the different types of people you've come into contact with, all the different scenarios, situations, divorces, deaths, estates, all of it. Putting numbers aside, when you look at humanity, if you could snap your fingers and help a group of people, who would you help? I would help at working families and try and find more time for their the family members that, you know, that need it. I think kids through school, all these complications that, you know, really get in the way sometimes money creates a barrier to spending time with family, you know, freedom of spending time with family. That's what I would advise and guide people towards. So, you know, guiding people towards keeping out a debt because it represents freedom, these types of things. So what you have is a two-year runway to if you need to go get trained as a, I'm going to, dude, I'm going to make stuff up, okay? You can get it, you can get a graduate degree online or in the evenings in some sort of mental health-related field. You can get certified as an elementary school teacher and start after school programs. You can get, I mean, you can do anything. You can launch a small business where you help local youth sports organizations create space so that families can actually, or who knows what you can do, right? But keeping that picture in mind, who do I want to help and let that be the guiding light that in two years you're going to be equipped with whatever that means, education, credentialing, servicing, business, whatever, so that I can help strapped families. That's beautiful, man. Because most people think of what job do I want to do, I don't know, what's my passion, yada, and you just, man, you end up like trying to run a marathon and syrup. It's awful. And so, hacking through all that, who do you want to help, man? I want to help busy people get some lunch. Cool. I'm going to go buy a burger king, right? Like, I want to help people get in shape. Cool. I'm going to get certified as a fitness coach with my mind pump buddies and I'm going to go help you. Like, it's getting that picture in your head. Who do you want to help? And then what must be true? Man, you got a two year run way. And so if you look at this as a, I am providing space from my wife to get back into the workforce, which I'm hoping that means something to her that she's been at home for 18, 24 months. And she's like, I got to, you know, all that. This isn't for me. It's driving me crazy, et cetera. I'm going to create space for her. And in the meantime, I'm not just sitting here doing nothing. I am retooling for the back half of my life. That's a pretty cool identity to anchor into. Yeah. Yeah. I think that works for me. I'm in touch with my local CPA board and they have all kinds of credentials for certified counseling of, you know, financial counseling, you know, something I've explored. Yeah. Do you want to get out of numbers altogether? No, I actually enjoy doing, especially financial counseling. I've, you know, built some tools that I can work with people on, you know, running through debts and budgets and things like that. But I do have other passions. I am a licensed bus driver and I told my wife that someday I will embarrass my daughter by being her school bus driver. Yes. Yes. That rules, dude. And I don't know a school district in America that could not use more bus drivers. Yeah. And so I want you to begin to keep a list and if you can not do it in Excel, this will be hard for you. That was my accounting joke. And if you can put your 10 key in a drawer, and I know a 10 key can serve as kind of like a Xanax for accounts, I'm just going to start doing numbers real fast. You can get a pen and a pad, a piece of paper and a pen, and then get into write down. Here's what I'm providing for my wife, for my daughter, for our home. Here's what I'm providing for our community. And here's what I want to provide for our families in my city, my neighborhood, whatever. And I want you to begin to keep stock of that. So when those feelings, those stories pop up, you're a loser, you're a waste or whatever you can say, no, no, no, I'm providing. And here's the evidence of it. I keep that evidence with me. And I also want you to have some sort of ceremony with your wife that ends the official. My identity used to be my bank account, it is no more. I'm not doing my life in service to this bank account. I'm at worshiping at the, at the altar of some number in some account somewhere. This account is in service to the life we want to build together. Yeah, that works for me. And that helps that my wife helps the counterbalance my, you know, my, that sort of quantitative thinking that I've been told to my wife says, is a great counterbalance for that to she, she thinks along the lines more of what you're, you're talking about. But this ultimate, you know, money says it's a tool, not a, and, yes, and here's where this is that it's going to be a, a discipline for you. You may have to get into a practice where for 30 days, I'm not going to look at our returns. For 30 days, I'm going to delete every single financial times email that I have coming into my inbox. Yeah. And I'm going to be present in my house. And you know what you're going to find? You're going to find yourself itchy. You're going to find yourself bored. You're going to find yourself like, man, being with the two-year-old is amazing. And it is very boring, right? So allow yourself to be bored and begin to ask yourself, okay, what must, what kind of read fiction for a while? Can I write? Can I work on a business plan? Can I take my kid to the park? Can I find some other parents who need two hours off to, like, other stay-at-home parents, and they can bring their, like, I can take three two-year-olds at a time. They can bring him over, and I'm just going to start from 8 a.m. till 10 a.m., giving stay-at-home moms and dads a break in my neighborhood. Bring your kid over. I want to even charge you. I'll start giving you all space. I'm going to start practicing this thing I want to do, and that might lead to future clients one day that might, if nothing else, it might just give, give space to people who are drowning. But all of those things come under the heading of providing. And in our modern world, providing is bigger than a dollar amount. I will caution anybody, any stay-at-home parent, but especially stay-at-home dads from not reforming an identity and not giving yourself a serious list of things to go tackle, to go do. Staying at home and being with the kid and then knocking off some kid chores and looking around, man, that's going to get tough real quick. And if you take on all the domestic responsibilities, and you are just running and gunning from 6 a.m. until 5 a.m. until midnight, awesome. But make sure you keep yourself a list of things that you are constantly doing to provide space for your family and provide the home that you and your wife want to co-create together. It's amazing. Good luck, brother, and man, I think the thing that you want to do down the line helping other folks, I think it's beautiful. And cherish every single second you have with that little one, every single second. They go real, real fast. We come back, a woman asks how to help her husband and their 13-year-old daughter get a long better. We'll be right back. Alright, this is amazing. Montana Knife Company has launched their first folding knife, the-the-the-the-the-the Montana. I did not think this knife was going to be super rad, right? I mean, I knew it would be cool, I knew it would be awesome, but I didn't know it would be this amazing. I've been telling you about Montana Knife Company's fixed blades for hunting, for cooking, for working outside for years now, and they have taken the same 30 years of craftsmanship and precision that they have put into those fixed blades and they've brought it to the folding knife and they nailed it. This is the ultimate everyday carry knife. And here's what I really love about Montana Knife Company Knives. These are working knives made by people who actually use them and they're made right here in America. I recently was at dinner with Josh Smith, the founder, and he personally walked me through the details of his fixed blades and of this new folding knife, the Montana. This is the pocket knife perfected. And like all Montana Knife Company Knives, this knife is going to be around for generations. It's something your grandkids are going to fight over years from now. If you've never shopped at Montana Knife Company before, you need to know that their knives sell out super fast because their handmade and supplies are extremely limited with whatever drop they're doing. So head over to mkc.com to check out what's available right now. And while you're there, sign up for email and text alerts to be the first to know about upcoming product drops, restocks, and new releases. That's mkc.com. All right, let's go to South Dakota and talk to Anne. Hey Anne, what's up? Hey, happy to be here. Thank you so much for calling. How can I help? Yeah, so my husband and my 13 year old daughter are at each other's throat all the time. He's a teacher. He's home in the summer with her and I'm getting phone calls from both of them just complaining about each other all the time. And this has not been a new thing, like even my co-workers know this is a cycle. Often we'll be calling and her daughter will be calling her and they'll be fighting in the summer. It's been going on for years and I just keep getting it in the middle of it. And I think I'm just making things worse. And now he's mad at me and it's just what are they fighting over? So it's usually nothing big, but he just nitpicks every little thing. And then she disrespects him because she doesn't have any respect for him at this point, which is terrible. And then they just start going back and forth. It can be over sweeping the kitchen, like little things. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how I can help because he's not on the phone. I've been there. I'll tell you the few things my wife told me that transformed my relationship with my daughter. But they were about me, they weren't about my kid. Well, and like her and I, like we get along great and she gravitates towards me all the time. And we end up like just going separate directions a lot of time because it's just easier. What does that mean? What does that mean? Well, it's just it's just less tension. You and her? Yes. So is that your husband is the only one in the house that will engage her? See, so we, her and I will get in fight to like and I'll like she, she's a very fiery. He has been since the day she was born and I keep saying if we get her to adulthood, she's going to be amazing, but it's rough. So it's not like she's without fault, but I know she's 13, they're supposed to. Right, right. And I just, like I've heard you talk about how your wife told you that you were like electric and your kids didn't want to be on you. And he listens to you all the time and I've like repeated that whole story back to him. And I feel like he's that way. Like we're in the living room. We're watching TV and they're on me and he's on a couch all by himself. And he's like with me, he's the most amazing husband and he's like so affectionate all the time, but he like doesn't hug her. Why? And I don't, I don't, I cannot, I don't know. Will she, will she receive his hugs? Yes, but she doesn't initiate it. That's not her job. Right. See, I mean, I don't know what to tell you. It's a dad's responsibility to engage with his daughter. Right. And like he, like he coaches their basketball teams, takes her to school, gets her up into it like all the like textbook, like things. Yeah, but if you take every one of those engagements and try to turn them into a teaching moment, a learning lesson, yeah, you didn't sweep here. Are you wearing that? Fix your bag. Did you have your homework? Did you do this? Walk out. Hey, why didn't you? No one would want to be around anybody who lived their life that way relationally. Right. And so what I had to work on was, number one, I had to go see a professional mental health therapist and figure out why? am I so set off by a child? Why am I so emotionally reactive? And what I found stunned me and it transformed my home, my entire home. So as the I'm saying this intentionally provocatively, but as the man of my house, it was my job to go sit with a therapist and figure out what's going on with me. Yeah. Number two, my wife gave me this wisdom and it changed everything because I didn't mean to. But she said, what if the greatest gift you could give our kids was not lessons on every second of their lives, but if you worked on being more likable. And I don't know why, but that light bulb switched. It was a, it was a switch. And here's what I, I've talked about on the show. I sat down with my son and I was like, dude, I'm not going to complain about your clothes anymore. I'm just done. You want to wear your shirts backwards. You want to wear wrinkle look, knock your lights out. If we're going to go out on a family thing or we're going to a funeral, we're going to somewhere important, we're all going to represent our family well. And so I'm going to have some expectations there. But you know, your buddies, you're at school, knock your lights out, man. I'm going to turn you over to the middle school wolves was my exact line. But I'm not going to lose my relationship with you over a haircut. I'm, I'm your dad. I'm supposed to think your haircut should be different regardless of what, what, what the style is. I'm not going to lose my relationship with you over that and stay with my daughter. And kids especially fiery kids. I'm saying confrontation. They don't need showdowns, but they do need parents that don't shy away from their big feelings or big emotions. Yes. I will stand firm in this. I'm not going to, I'm not going to meet your reaction with my reaction. And because I'm louder and bigger and stronger, I'm going to win. No, I'm not going to engage with you, but I'm not scared of your feelings. You're 13. You know what I'm saying? There's a big difference there. I'll stand here, the middle storm, because your storm doesn't scare me. And if you're mean or rude or you break my heart, I'm going to let you know you hurt my feelings. You make me feel so much less crazy. But it's, my daughter is not naturally. It has taken a long time for her to relax in hugs. Well, now I can't keep the kid off of me, but for years it was that way. And it was still my job as dad to recognize. She, I am setting the model. I am. She is going to marry a guy like me. Maybe not Mary. She's going to date men like me that are attractive. She's going to be attracted to this nervous system. It's going to feel homeostatic for her. It's going to feel like home. And so it's my job to make sure whatever nervous system her body gravitates towards is a safe one. And what that meant is I had years, literally years of saying, hey, look at me. I'm glad you're my daughter and I love you. I'm glad of all the people on the planet. God picked me to be your dad. And I got nothing back. And my job as the dad was to stay emotionally regulated and show up again and show up again and show up again. Can I talk you in the night? No, I want mom. All right. I love you. I'm so glad I get to be your dad. Even if I closed her door and I broke my heart. And now we have these long adventure telling night, not I can't. I'm like, dude, I got to go to bed. And my wife's like, you all have to go to bed. Right? Well, and that's, I love that. And I wish, like, I want that for him. That's what I'm saying. I can't help because he's not on the phone. I mean, I can't. I can't challenge him. He's on the phone. But, um, he's like, he's a teacher and he has like, he had a group of students, the female students that call them their subdad, their substitute dad because he would help them work through all their problems and all this stuff. Like, he's so and then turn around and he just like is a completely different person with his own daughter. And she's starting to see that. It's not the relationship is different. Yeah. I am a trained mental health professional. And my daughter doesn't need a therapist. She needs a dad. Yeah. Yeah. I also was a teacher for 20 years in K five high school and university settings. My kids didn't need a teacher. They didn't need to teach them some things, but they needed their dad. Jacco will like the Navy seal like who's I have high respect for him. But I remember seeing an interview with him and he said, my Navy uniform never came in the house because my kids weren't in the military. So he kept a change of clothes in the car. Like board shorts and a t-shirt and flip flops go in my house. And it was a reminder, I'm taking this uniform off and putting this one on. And the illusion is the sucky part and this happens with teachers. This happens with therapists, happens with youth ministers is all these other people think you're great, but I only have to deal with you in doses and I get to set the rules. You're in my world now, honey, as Ben Stiller said that one time. Yeah. Right. You're in my world now. Like, it's not real. It's a false dynamic. That makes so much sense. But when I get to your house, it's messy. It's all the time. It's every day. We get to see each other with our makeup off and with our, you know, covered in dirt and mud and under the kitchen countered clean and like we get to see the raw of each other. It's just different. It's a false, it's a false, it's a false set up. And so these, these middle school girls, who they are high school girls who think he's the best ever, he probably is an amazing teacher. Yeah. And he's probably as good in that setting, setting boundaries, holding people accountable, encouraging people in this artificial environment. And they love that. But they have a false understanding of the 360 degree nature of this guy because they don't get up for him in the morning when he's grumpy. And when he leaves coffee grounds and hairs all over the sink, again, they don't live in that world, right? Yeah. That makes sense. So how do I like, I mean, it's obviously affecting our relationship at this point. We fight about it all the time. We like spend the bulk of our time talking about this. And it's affecting our fights though. Well, so at some point I get tired of listening to it and I interject. And then he says that I'm undermining his parenting. And so then then I start telling him how I think he should be parenting, which of course he does not want to hear. But I don't know what else to say to him at this point. Is he happy with how things are? No. What is his response to how is this working for you as Dr. Phil used to ask? Yeah. Well, and that's what he keeps saying, well, I'm trying something different. It'll last like two days and then he's back at it. And like I said, he listens to you all the time. And I'm like, how can you listen to John all the time and not put any of this into practice? Yeah, but that's not helpful either. I know. I know. I mean, I promise you whatever narrative inside his chest, he's giving himself all day every day. Doesn't need yet another like see, right? Well, yeah. I know he thinks it like he feels like he lives in a failure factory to use your words. Yeah. I know that. I just I don't know how to fix that or help him fix that for himself. So I want you to I want you to change, uh, effective immediately. You ready? Yep. All you can control is you. That's it. You can't control him. You can't this is hard to hear. You can't control a 13 year old. You can put some ready. You know what you still can? You can control a 13 year old. But I mean, that kid can, I mean, you can get pretty militant pretty fast. The kid can unlock the door at 2 a.m. and walk out the front door. I mean, you know what I'm saying? If you really get down brass tax, what you can control is you and that might look like when you all start fighting, I am going to get up and leave. When you all start fighting, I am going to get my daughter and we are going to leave. You when you ask me for my parenting advice or when you want to call me on the phone, I will not take calls about your interactions with our daughter because you're not going to get the help that you need to help you be emotionally regulated, sturdy in the midst of a 13 year old acting like a 13 year old. That's so fair. And that's it. It should be equal parts. You should feel equal parts fully empowered. Like, oh, hell yeah, I can control me. Yeah, that's right. And it should it should feel powerless. That's the part that's hard. It does. It feels powerless. And like, I just want to fix it. Know and protect them both. I want her to see like he's amazing and I want her to see that side of him And I want her to get that side of him too and vice versa. I want him to know that's it right there. That's it right there You want her to see a thing that's not really there? You what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah And that's heartbreaking. No, it's just yeah It should because I think there's few relationships on the planet more magic than a connected father and daughter So I think spending some time with yourself asking what am I going to do next? What must be true for me to show up as the best version of myself as a wife as a mom as a co-creator of this house And can I clearly communicate in a language my husband can hear here's what I'm going to do next when the following happens Here's what I'm asking you to do for one final time And if I get between the two of you and take our daughter out and go get her ice cream when y'all are yelling and screaming at each other I can't control whether you feel like I undermined you or if I just protected everybody I can't control that you get to choose What a restore you make up, but I'm telling you right now how I'm going to respond to these moments Yeah, because I feel like it's my job not to make him feel like that too. You can't control his feelings. He's a grown man Now I've had the undermining conversation with my wife and what we agreed on is Unless it's something that is setting her like if she's like hey, I got to call this or if I see it And I'm like I'm getting the middle of it right now that this is not going to be a win situation for anybody in this house Absent those rare moments She will when we're out having breakfast or we're out having coffee together. She'll say hey, can I pitch something that I saw yesterday? I'll be like yeah But those were hard to hear early on, but I Was sensitive to if I'm in the middle of a hard conversation with my son and you come in and just try to rescue him or try to rescue me It does it does it unwinds the whole thing the tension is important But here's an avenue where we could have that conversation and that takes me being an adult and showing up and be And emotionally regulated for those those to be challenged right right and challenges a critical part of any marriage relationship Knowing that those challenges are we're both on the same team and we're both going for the same goal right right Sorry Thank you sorry for everybody Yeah, and if your husband's listed in I'll tell him this rather there is There is peace and humility And saying I'm good at my job working with young people But I'm struggling with my relationship with the really the young person that matters the most to me There's peace in going to get some professional help whether it's skill set whether it is your own therapy whether it is Marriage counseling like there's there's peace there and there's peace in Learning how to be sturdy how to be how to stand strong in the middle of a 13-year-olds emotions which 13-year-olds are supposed to have them um And not being unanchored myself not feeling myself unwind in man's skin I wish you guys the best and if he wants to call in and tell him a call I'll get him all Tell him to put a note in to with Kelly and we'll get him through I'd love to talk to him because I've been right where he's at And man I wouldn't trade my situation that I have with my daughter for anything right now. We'll be right back When it comes to supplements There's one main company that I trust thorn. I've been telling you about thorn supplements for years I've been using thorn supplements for ages. I was first introduced to thorn by professional athletes more than a decade ago And thorn continues to be the main supplements I trust for me and for my family Supplements are an unregulated industry and that means it's flooded with garbage in nonsense Most companies cut corners and they lie on their labels not thorn Thorn makes every product at their world-class facility in South Carolina 35% of their employees work in quality control and thorn rejects 15% of raw materials because good enough a good deal on It's fine. It's not good enough for thorn thorn is about excellence It's why pro athletes Olympic teams in more than 60,000 doctors trust thorn. It's why I trust them too Stop guessing what's going into your body. Go to thorn.com/deleteru/delony and get 25% off your order when you create an account That's THORne.com/deleteru/delony Hello, what's up? All right. I have a cool crap that happened. Excellent. Yes This is from Kathy in Newcastle, California and she writes My husband a 51 years has a brain disease and he has significant cognitive loss A couple of days ago, I made him a sandwich for lunch He took a few bites and said pickles And I said yes, I put pickles on your sandwich. He nodded and kept it eating The next day I kissed him on the forehead and said how can I love you better today He looked at me for a bit and said no more pickles Was the first time we had laughed in months Thank you, Jonathan for helping me get through the most difficult season of my life That lifted my spirits up Those little bitty moments cognitive decline is evil, man. It's evil and Hmm Those little rays of light that come through during the darkness of cognitive decline or or magic And so is asking that question. How can I love you today? And sometimes it's as simple as no more pickles and sometimes it's as simple as stop hitting me Kelly But that's for another show. Love you guys. Bye