Caller: “My Wife Doesn’t Want My Parents at Christmas”

(upbeat music) - Brought to you by my friends at Churchill Mortgage. If you're looking to buy or refinance, check them out. I've used Churchill and they are great. Go to Churchill Mortgage.com. - I have two kids from a previous relationship and I'm trying to find a way to navigate the holidays between my wife and her family and my parents. Here are some places my wife and I have landed and then I'll give you the most important thing at the very end. (upbeat music) - What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloni Show. So grateful that you are here with us. Listen, I'm super hyped. My brand new book, "Building the Marriage You Want," answers two questions. His marriage still worth it. The 21st century with all the changes, all the access, all the different support mechanisms is marriage still worth it and if so, how do you do it? It's years of me pulling all of my personal conversations, research, time spent with individuals and couples and my own marriage story, putting it all together. This is the period of the sentence for me when it comes to marriage. It's just to be the last marriage book you ever have to buy. It'd be great if you're engaged, awesome. If you've been married for 50 years, awesome. This is the book for you, "Building the Marriage You Want." It's on pre-order right now. You can go to rambsysolutions.com/store or click the link in the show notes. And if you pre-order it now, I'll send you the audio book and I'll send you early access to the electronic edition and I'll send you a version of a talk I gave at the Money Marriage Treat on Marriage Communication. All that, just for helping me out. I know you're, I'm asking you to send me money before I send you the book. It just makes such a huge difference when it comes to all getting the book out to as many people as possible. So if you pre-order it's a huge deal for me. It's just, it's you blessing me. So it'd be awesome. 2499, click the link in the show notes. It's got to Orlando, Florida and talk to DA in. What's up, Dan? - Hey, Dr. John, how's it going? - I'm good brother, what's up with you, man? - Not too bad, man. Just dealing with that hot Florida weather. - Yo, it is out of this world hot in Tennessee right now. It's wild, man. - Yeah, I mean, I just moved into a new house about a year ago and the ACs are already struggling. So I get it. - Man. - Well, so what's going on, brother? - Well, I wanted to get your input on how I can handle kind of the holidays. So a little backstory is I have two kids from a previous relationship and I'm remarried. She's been their stepmom for a good portion of their life. And I'm trying to find a way to navigate the holidays between my wife and her family and my parents. So my parents are very traditional, Hispanic. They love, you know, that whole big family. Let's all get together. They'll sleep all in the same room if you could. And on the other hand, my wife has been involved in pretty much every holiday going to my parents' events. And so this year, she wants to do something kind of with just her side of the family. And I'm trying to navigate how to kind of go about that without hurting anybody's feelings, kind of respecting her boundaries, but also considering my parents, they're also elderly. And I feel guilty not including them. So yeah, that's quite the pickle, dude. Yeah, give me a geographical distance. Well, we're all in Florida, but her side of the family is pretty much closer to us about like a 40 minute drive from us. And then my parents are about like a three hour drive. So it's not huge, but there's like going out of the state plans and whatnot that are more reserved to just her side of the family. OK. So I have been through every version of this in my own house. And so what I want to tell you is after 24 years of navigating this, here are some places my wife and I have landed. And then I'll give you the most important thing at the very end. Is that cool? Yeah. My wife and I have done everything with varying degrees of success. There's been times that she-- her parents are aging. She's taken our kids. And she's gone to visit them without me. And they've had a blast. And I've been sad at home. Sometimes I'm working, sometimes I'm on the road. And I've been sad that I missed out. Sometimes I didn't have it in me to travel across the country, knowing what I would have to come back to when it comes to home stuff, work stuff, whatever, responsibilities. And so there's a picture where you go-- y'all spend time with her family this year. You'll have never done that before. You'll spend time. And I think that's right. And I think that's fair for there to be some sort of alternating time and schedule. And also, it's three hours away. You tell her, hey, I'm going to take the kids. And we're going to go visit grandma and grandpa. And we're going to hang out for a day. And we're going to come back in the morning. And then she gets to either feel super relieved or she gets to feel guilty where I want us all together. And that's cool. Totally get it. And we're going to go spend time with your family. And I love that. But it's a big deal to me that my kids have a relationship with their grandparents. And so free her from that. There could be a conversation with your parents, which may be long overdue, which is we alternate every other year. We do Christmas. And at some point, your wife's going to rightfully push back on who's in control of your life. Is your life being co-created by you and your wife or is your life still being drug or unbiased what your parents want? Definitely. And I also know that's real easy to say. And culture matters. Yeah. And to just blow it off and be like, no, culture doesn't matter. It does. And there's something beautiful and chaotic and maddening and frustrating and awesome about the big annual family get together. Right? Definitely. And so it's, I guess the thing I want-- there's two things I want you to walk away with. Give up the idea that you're going to solve this once and for all and make it a part of your rhythm. And by the way, you're calling. It's the middle of September. We're getting towards the end of September when you and I are taking this call. Dude, you are so freaking far ahead of where most couples are. I'm proud of you. I'm so-- dude, like me and my wife, I think we're kind of gangsters because we plan what we're going to do in September. And we tell all of our family, here's what our holiday travels going to look like and everything. And most of our friends look at us like we have seven heads. They're like, you already what? We'll think about Thanksgiving the week before. You guys are already ahead. So congratulations for being way ahead. That's awesome. But plan for it to be every year is going to be different and not trying to solve it once and for all. Right. And so get that out of the way. And the second thing I would tell you is if it becomes this sense of I get one and you get one, then you and your wife are going to find each other on opposite sides of a tennis court. And it's going to be you versus her. And that will always end in collapse. Right. So the most effective way-- me and my wife have handled this over the years. And that I've heard back from people after I teach this is swipe the deck clean and start actually with January 1st. How do we, as a couple, want to feel January 1 based on what we did in November and December? How we traveled, how we spent money, how we ate, how we did or didn't exercise, how we went fishing, how we-- whatever. When we're sitting here at the house January 1, how do we want to feel? And what must be true for the rest of it? You I'm saying? Yeah, definitely. I do have a follow up, though. Rip it. So where I stand now and where I kind of have been standing on the matter is that I feel like it's only fair that I do give my wife the respect and acknowledgement that she has been more willing to kind of give a perend of the deal if you want to call it that. And so I do feel like it would be OK and fair, as you mentioned earlier, to give her this holiday season. But the big thing, I guess, for me, is navigating the fact that that conversation that may be long overdue with my parents is kind of something that I've been dreading to a certain extent because-- Go right through it. Go right through it. Go right through it. Go right through it. Yeah, but they're very-- I guess they can fall into this catastrophizing and guilt trip situation. They're your parents. That's their job. Right, right. They're job-- reframe it. You can say they are demanding and narcissistic. You can put all these internet labels on them. or you can say my freaking parents love me and my wife and their grandkids so much that they'll just sit there and sob in front of me. If I take away time and that's their job is to be sad that their son's not around or forget you that their grandkids aren't around. Sure. You you trying to do the right thing and make sure everybody out there and second third or effects that their feelings are okay too, it's impossible task. And it paralyzes you 100%. So the path forward is to sit down with your mom and your dad preferably in person. They're three hours away if you can make a weekend trip with the grandkids, that would be awesome. But if not, call them and say, this is a hard conversation mom. But for the first time, I am I am going to do Christmas with my wife's family this year. Here is when we are going to be able to come down and visit, but we are going to miss the big gathering because we're going to do Christmas Eve with my wife's parents this year, period, stop talking after that. Okay. You know what I'm saying? It's a declaration. It's not a, well, she really wants to, no, no, I am, these are my parents. I am the husband here. I'm saying here's what I'm choosing to do because I'm a grown man. Right. Right. And I'm willing to take the consequences of having my parents be dramatic and histrionic and cry and whale and say, you don't love us and what if we never see you again? You're going to kill your dad like all those things. You get to say those things. Right. All right. And by the way, they're going to say those things anyway about something you do this holiday season. Right. It's coming anyway. I'm sure they already have. Of course. You know how they left the gossip and the Hispanic people tend to gossip a lot. So I gave it. Yeah. But I will do what you said. If you and I were hanging out, we would have a different conversation. But I'm on the air now. So I'm just going to let you say what you want to say, brother. Appreciate it. No, I, I, I, it sounds like your parents love you and man, I've, I've got family in that culture. I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it. And I love it. And it will take everything that you give it. Right. Definitely. And so the, the, just the tricky thing you have to navigate and by the way, the tricky thing that your wife chose to marry into, right, is a big giant Mexico family. And marry into somebody who's got two kids by another family. She opted into this. So it's not going to always be perfect and it sounds like she hasn't always demanded it be perfect. No, she's been great with it. She's, she's rolled with the punches. That's awesome. And so let's swipe the debt clean and say, how do we want our home and our marriage to feel January 1? And let's, and she might say, dude, every year after Christmas, I, I don't want to see anybody talk to anybody. I'm spent. I'm burned out. I'm fried. I'm cooked. I don't want that this year. Awesome. Let's go do Christmas with your family and the day after that, I'm going to pile the kids in the car. We're going to drive down and see our family. That's for 24 or 48 hours. You stay at home, relax, do whatever you go to the spa. I'll get you a spa thing for Christmas, like whatever you want to do. I'm going to go do this. I'm going to go take them down there. And then she says, I don't want you going without me. Well, you only have that conversation because then she's putting you in a bind. Which is, I want to honor and love my parents and I also want to love and honor you. But you're asking me to love and honor you by not loving and honoring them. And that puts you in a pretty awkward position. I'd rather her feel the, I feel like I should be there, but I just can't this year. I'm, I'm spent this year. Awesome. I'm going to go though. Or maybe this is the year you don't go, but you tell your parents, I'll be there in January. Mid-January, I'm going to load up on a Saturday morning and I'm bringing the kids down. And we're going to spend all day and I'll dry back it midnight. You get to choose those kind of things. But let's swipe the debt clean. Every year we're going to swipe the debt clean August, September and say, okay, what is the fall projecting for us financially, time wise, chaos. Time wise, family wise, aging parents wise, what does it all look like? And how can we best love each other so that we can love our extended families the best? So thanks for a call, brother. Great, great, great questions. Tattoo these two things on your heart. Change it every year. You're in the driver's seat and you cannot control everybody's second and third order responses. Your feelings to what you do that's right for you and your family in this season. So do the right thing. Go right through the middle of hard conversations. The sooner you have them, the more direct you have them, the clearer you have them, the faster you can get to some sort of resolution. Thanks for a call, brother. We come back. A woman asks how to convince her mom to leave her unsafe, unfinished home. We'll be right back. All right, everyone. Summer is over. I hope you had a great one. I hope you went on a vacation. I hope you took the time to slow down and relax because now we're back to real life, full overwhelming calendars, kids, school activities, racing around all over. But listen, what if there was a way you could keep that vacation going a little bit every day? There is cozy earth, their bamboo sheets are like the most comfortable hotel bed you've ever slept in, except way more comfortable than that. They're breathable. They're so good at regulating your temperature. No more kicking off the covers at 2 a.m. and cozy your towels. 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You're going to stay calm or you're going to feel more peace. But then the same old patterns show up, the same family tensions, the same challenges you have to keeping healthy boundaries and you find yourself cranky and tired and even snapping at people that you love. Listen, this year can be different. You still have time to get ahead of all of the chaos and understand what's behind your reactions and you can develop a plan for moving through the holidays with peace therapy can help you build this healthier plan before you actually need it. When you're ready to have that conversation, check out Better Help. Better Help is an online therapy platform with more than 30,000 licensed therapists across its network. This means you can find someone who can help you feel more peaceful this holiday season, help you develop a plan or help you with whatever your needs and goals are. If the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. If you thought about trying therapy with Better Help, insurance options may now be available nationwide through participating providers and eligible members have an average copay of just 23 bucks a session. Listen, you know what's coming. This year, you have time to keep calm ahead of all of the holiday chaos by preparing differently. Go to BetterHelp.com/Delony to check out your payment options. That's [email protected]/Delony or click the link in the description. All right, hit all the subscribe share buttons and listen, I have created the conflict framework. I've wrote it down for you, I get so many DMs and emails for it. I've written it down, click the link in the show notes, it will give you the PDF. This is how to actually solve a problem in your marriage, not to talk about it forever, not to go to war together, but how to sit down and say, here's what I'm experiencing, here's the stories I'm making up and here's what I would like to be different in our home. Click the link in the show notes for the connected conflict framework. It's got to New York City, New York and talk to Sally. What's up, Sally? Hi. How are you, Dr. John? I'm all right, Sister. How are you? Good. Thank you so much for taking my call today. You got it. What's going on? So my mom is living in a house that's essentially unsafe and I worry about her every single day. I don't know how to get through to her to get her into a safer environment. Tell me about her home. So basically she and my dad built a house kind of on the outskirts of town when they were in their 20s and they did everything kind of under the books. They did nothing by coach. They did everything by hand. So it's kind of a patchwork house. Long story short, she and my dad got a divorce and the house never got finished. It is now almost 20 years later and she's still living there. How old is she? She's 43. 43. Yep. Um. How old are you? I'm 22. 22. don't say that within a apology. That's awesome. I'm 22 now. That's great. Um, I love that you were you're worried about your mom. Um, what else is going on in your mom's life? Well, to be quite honest, she, I have two younger sisters and she's not really close with any of us because she seems to, she's isolated herself out at that home. And um, it's been really hard. We haven't lived with her in probably 10, 12 years just because it's unsafe. So she's just kind of out there by herself. Um, she doesn't really have any family around. She, I mean, she goes to work every day. It's not a job that she loves, but that's pretty much her whole life right now is just trying to get that house put together. When you've talked to her in the past about getting to a safer place. How's that conversation gone? It usually ends with her saying she's never, ever, ever going to give up on that home because it's the one and only thing that she has that fully hers. And um, it's a lot of you will understand this when you're older. Um, yeah, that's there's basically it's hard to convince her to do anything else. Is there a possibility that this, this, this, this, this flashing neon sign in your mind that says unsafe home unsafe home that you worry about every day. Could it be that that flashing sign is actually connected to a different alarm and that alarm is I miss my mom. I don't think so because I genuinely worry in my sleep that this house is going to collapse on her the last time I was out there. The floor was kind of caving in in the middle. It has no foundation right now. So that's kind of the main thing she's working on right now is trying to get a foundation put into place. But she's doing it all herself. So there's again, the worry that she's going to climb under this house by herself and get crushed or something. So I genuinely just worry for her physical safety right now. Do you worry enough to call the city? I don't know what to do. A welfare check. I feel like if I did that, they would for sure. See that it is unsafe. And I'm worried how that will end up. I worry if that will put her on the street or how that might go. I know, but I and I'm I'm pushing you because you've trapped yourself. I'm trying to I want you to see that the the cage you're in the locks only inside. Okay. What you want to have happened is there to be some magical conversation between you and your mom where she goes. Oh, you're right. You're right. And that conversation will never, ever, ever happen. Right. So do you think I should call? I'm not I would. If if and that's where I want to pull the thread on the worry. If you are worried that somebody is physically in unsafe. They're in harm's way. Yeah, I'll call everybody. I just had a conversation with somebody recently. Um, uh, who had a coworker who was suicidal. And I was like, they're like, me, we don't we don't know what to do. I was like, I'll take exactly what to do. Call everybody. Everybody. Okay. Right. And so because there's there's imminent danger there. Mm-hmm. And so if you are legitimately worried that this house is going to collapse on your 43 year old mother. Right. Let's do an uncomfortable thought experiment. Yep. Tomorrow this house does collapse on your mom where she's trying to dig out her own footers. And when the city's out there, they're like, my God, if we'd known we would have condemned this house and put your mom in an apartment. Mm-hmm. Yep. Okay. I think I need to call. Mm-hmm. And you taking a hard stand. I always tell folks, I'm bringing up suicidality because it's such an extreme thing. I've told more people than I can possibly count. I would love for you to hate me in 10 years and still be alive to hate me. Right. I'm willing to risk my friendship, my relationship with you for your safety and you're being alive. Mm-hmm. And so similarly, your mom may never talk to you again. Yep. And that might be the price to pay for saving her life. Mm-hmm. And that's a sad price to pay. It's a heartbreaking, devastating price to pay. But in my in my accounting, that's a that's a worthy price to pay. It might be that your mom is forced to come move in with you, or you choose to allow her to live with you. Because she's going to be on the street. She can't afford rent. I don't know how much her work pays. I don't know. I'm dying this home is insured. Right. So she's putting all of the money that she makes right now into just building this home. So sometimes she'll even ask me if her, hey, do you have 20 bucks because she doesn't have enough money for food because she's putting all the money into the house. Yeah. And it may be that she's got some sort of psychological attachment to this place that has gone pathological. I think so. Yep. And it may be the greatest gift ever is that somebody can take this. But she's going to need a lot of support because it wrapped up in the in the wood and nails. And sagging floorboard of this house is dreams of a marriage. Her relationships with her daughters that are not what that would it should be. Her picture of her life and it's all tangled up in there. Yep. I'm just worried that if I do that she won't have the support that she needs and we could be looking at a bigger issue mentally. I think I would 100% prepare for that. And if somebody goes out there and does a welfare check on her. And sees that she's not psychologically well. Hopefully there's I know in New York there's resources upon resources upon resources. Sometimes it's harder outside of town or out in further and further rural areas. It can be a nightmare trying to get support resources of that kind. But again, those are second and third orders right now. If you're telling me that she might be dead by the end of the week because the house collapses on her, I'm making that call right this second. OK. If you're looking at a 20 year old house, the floor is kind of cave in and it's just, but the house is not going anywhere, it's annoying. It's unsafe and I'm worried about her. But. She's 43. She still gets around OK. Like that that that's up to you. You have to be the person who makes this final decision because I want you to own the weight of what you choose to do next. OK. Is that fair? It's fair. Yep. Thank you for loving your mom, especially when it's hard. How young, how old are your sisters? 17 and 20. So you play a mom role for them too? Yeah. Where do they live? So my 17 year old sister, she's living with my dad and my stepmom. And my other sister is away at college right now. So she's living in another city. OK. Where do you live? I live right close to my mom, probably an hour drive away from her. OK. And are you working full time? I am. Yep. I have my own business. Good. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm just trying to think logistically what happens if your mom needs a place to live. I don't think I could have her live with me because we just we have a really, really bad relationship. She I genuinely think I'm her least favorite daughter because I tell her how things are and I don't sugar coat things. And so I don't think that that would be good for my own sanity if she lived with me. Sure. Well, you've got some hard choices ahead of you. OK. Yeah. And I don't envy you making these hard choices, especially with somebody like your mom. What does your dad say about all this, by the way? He kind of just takes a back seat on it all and shakes his head. I think he closed the door on her after they divorced. I don't think he wants to have. I mean, they don't talk. They don't co-parent. I get that. I get that, but you're his daughter. And so he may not have any feelings or want anything to do with her. But there's another adult out there that's devastating his 22 year old daughter. Does he have no interest in helping you? Real honestly, no, he just kind of takes a back seat. Have you looked at him said, Dad, I need some guidance and some wisdom here. He just hits me with the, I don't know, this is the same old. Gosh, man, I hate that. I hate that for you. Let's just such abject cowardice to be like, yep, I got out. Good luck daughter best of luck to my other my three daughters Man, that is just cowardice at a level. It's hard to for me to wrap my head around But anyway, keeping about it. So yeah, you've got to make some big scary grown-up decisions at 22 and The the weight room of life the squat rack that you're under is about to get super super heavy and So here's some of the choices you're gonna have to make Does this woman who already doesn't like me she might move over to hate me because I'm gonna call the city in and try to get her some Psychological support and do a welfare check and have somebody come look at this house that I think is about the cave-in on her Is What am I gonna prioritize my mental health or my mom being on the street? Am I gonna drive down once a week an hour to a woman who's pissed off at me and help her get settled and her new one bedroom apartment because that's all she's gonna have Right, like you're gonna have some hard choices to make and I just want you to always remember I am in the drive receive Every choice I make is gonna have consequences to a tough feelings either for me or for others And I'm gonna continue to do the next right things I want to show up as a person who loves her mom well even when mom was very hard to love I'm a young adult who's gonna make really hard calls about safety and things that I shouldn't be having to make right now But this is what this is the hand I got dealt and I'm gonna do it the best I can I'm gonna seek wisdom where I can do it, but Yeah, you got a hard road to hope but when as just a general rule of life if there is a safety concern that trumps everything I'll make all the calls I need to make and then Deal with the relation stuff on the ship stuff on the back end, but I'm making the calls all day All day every time Thanks for the call. I'm really grateful for you. We come back A man asks how does he repair his relationship with the 17-year-old son will be right back The advancement of AI has made it easier than ever for scammers to get a hold of your personal information and with technology like voice matching Scammers can now use what they know about you in ways that are almost impossible to detect the scammers already have your Home address your kids names your past jobs and listen. AI is helping them get better at using that information Against you. That's where delete me comes in delete me goes to hundreds of data broker sites that exist Just to buy your personal information and sell it for profit without your consent and they remove your information And then they keep removing it month after month They've already removed my information from thousands of sites and they keep monitoring So my personal information isn't floating around out there everywhere for scammers to continue to grab listen AI is changing the game delete me make sure you're not an easy target Click the link in the description or go to join delete me dot com slash Deloni to get 20% off an annual plan That's J-O-I-N join delete me dot com slash Deloni All right, let's go out to spring field Missouri and talk to Jeff. What's up Jeff? Hi Dr. John. Thank you for having me on a show. I listen Every single time you have a podcast though. Oh, man. Thank you. I don't even know if Kelly's here for that many episodes That's awesome. God, you're here brother. What's up? So I have my son. He's I have two kids and my oldest is I'm about to graduate from high school and You know like throughout his childhood like I've always been a participant in you know his sports activities And I've tried to be an active role in his life, but Those of these last probably three or four years. It's it's just really seems like like no matter what I do Like I can't connect with him like on On more than a hey, what's what's going on? Well, like I can't I can't get it He doesn't want to engage with me. He doesn't want to um He doesn't want to like Do activities and like I try to do like father son activities and He just continues to pull away and I I feel like I feel like Like there's a lot that like maybe I'm the root cause of this like I've I always try to take introspection Think what what have I done to cause this but I it's I've just been out of loss here lately. Mm-hmm Sorry, you're going through that, man Thank you. I was paying for a dude I got a 16-year-old and I I I get that feeling that you're feeling which is developmentally normal like they begin standing up a little taller and Trying to like it's a calf becoming a bull, right? It's like like I'm I'm gonna start flexing my Weighted out into the world. There's always going to be attention but also Mammoths my I have a pretty unique relationship and so I would hate that what you're experiencing. So name a heart goes out to your brother. Um, whoa So it where's where's mom and all this? I mean, she's right words. We're still together and she's actively involved But I mean, I think she also has difficulty um maybe Not maybe she probably has a better ability to connect with him, but I wouldn't say it's like Like there's there's definitely times where it's it's difficult for her as well Hmm Is there And I'm just going through a checklist to my mind is there substance abuse of any kind We we had an incident um we we had an incident um Probably six to nine months ago where it we we had found all of it. He had been um using marijuana and then it all Someone we had we found out that he was using marijuana which I'm for personally for adults. I don't care. I don't use it myself, but for adults. I don't care But and but for obviously for someone his age I do I do not approve and I've been very clear about that And I like I try not to also be an adult that said just as this is you just don't do it and that's it I'm like no like you you don't You don't do marijuana because it makes you not care when you should be When when you when you when you feel bored instead of doing marijuana, you should Like better yourself like there's a gym. There's books. There's like stuff you could do to improve yourself um Yeah, marijuana is particularly devastating for young boys developing mines for the brains. Yeah, right um and I mean It's like If you put a hundred dollars a month in an account starting at the age of 18 you'll be a could jillionaire when you're 65 like Trying to tell a 17-year-old like dude you've got an opportunity to lift weights and get ripped and do this and go study extra that I mean You know what I mean like like that that's a tough sale because right now he's hurting right now Yeah, or he's lonely right now He's isolated right now and so trying to connect that Um in anyway, what what about pornography? Um You know, I we have looked at his phone we and like I have I'm Very tech savvy So like he would have a difficult time hiding stuff for me. What about Like if you were to back out if you were to be watching a like a camera Of the regular interactions in your house How much time is spent telling him what he needs to be doing Where he needs to improve Versus celebrating just the young madhouse 17-year-old knucklehead that he is Um This is where I would say it I probably do too much of telling him what to do I'm not or saying like you could do this better and I've I've listened to your show and I've like been trying to like look for things to celebrate but I think this celebration starts with you clear in the deck with him and and telling him you don't have a choice here You're going out to dinner with me or go out to breakfast with me And look at him in the eye and saying I've I've I failed gen I'm sorry Yeah, I messed up I had this conversation with my 16-year-old last night I've messed this up for a long time and I'm gonna make a change and I'm gonna hold you to that change too Yeah, yeah, and so you sitting down with your 17-year-old and saying I know I'm your old man, and I know you're just rolling your eyes. I get it. It's fine. But I have to say this I need you to hear me I've made the last three years five years seven years about lectures and pointing out flaws and trying to make you into somebody you're not and I'm sorry. I love you and your son Yeah And I wouldn't want to hang out with somebody if ever every time they interacted with me, they were like, "Fix your clothes, what about your hair? Have you done your laundry? Where's your card? If you clean this out, why didn't you do this? Your mom asked you, "I wouldn't want to hang out "that guy either." And kids don't have a choice, so we force 'em to, but they'll disappear inside their own skin around us, just like you're describing, right? I can't do that. - Yeah. - I hear that, I've heard that my whole career, my kids right here, but I can't get 'em. And they've disappeared inside of a shell themselves. And sometimes that is substance abuse, and sometimes that is a peer group that's very unwise and unsafe, but often it is kids just throw up. Dude, I'm playing your game. I'm getting this stupid grade you telling me to get, and I'm doing just enough to get by in this house, so you'll get off my back, leave me alone. And that goes back to that. I've talked about on the show where my wife had that conversation with me about, "Hey, what if you focused on being more likable?" - Yeah. - Instead of being right all the time. And dude, that had a huge impact. That conversation changed my trajectory with my kids. - So then, I guess my question is, how do I balance, because I feel like he does need some direction, but I don't want to be the person who, well, I don't want to just be like dictator when we interact, especially as he's almost an adult, so I don't want to be that. But also, I guess like there's stupid things, or maybe there's stupid things like we'll like him and I, we'll go, we would go to the gym together. And like he would, for like a period of time, he would only want to do legs. Like just six months straight every time is there. I'm only doing legs, I'm only doing legs. And I'm like, well, you need to work out your upper body. - Okay, that right there. Why? Because the proper hormone balance, whenever for a human growth hormone. - They're getting, they're getting, if you have a kid that only works out legs, they're working the biggest muscles in their body repeatedly. - Yes. - But here's the, here's the bigger lesson we're taking away. I want my kid to love the weight room. - Yeah. - He's 15. I want him to have positive memories of the weight room. - Yeah. - I don't want to exert my rightness in dude. I'm like from a physiological standpoint, you're right. You should, but not work out your legs every single day of the week. You know that. I know that. - Yeah. - And he's 15. So it goes back to what game am I playing? Am I playing the game of I will be right or am I playing the game of I want my kid to want to go in the weight room and he's 50? - No, that's, that's fair, that's fair. And so he's learned this thing that I love going to the weight room. This thing I love going to the weight room with my dad is yet another place where I'm not doing life right. - Yeah. - You get what I'm saying? - Yes, no, I 100%. - So I think, I think it's, you taking an inventory. Here's another good example. You need to do your laundry. He's thinking, no, I don't. And, right, like, so the conversation might shift to, this is my house and you're sleeping in one of my rooms. There can't be clothes all over the floor. But you can wear the clothes if you want to. I'll turn you over to the high school wolves, man. - Yeah, yeah. - Or as, when you leave our house, you're wearing my name. And so we are not going to enter into the world wearing rinkly smelly clothes. And that means if you don't do your laundry, you're not leaving the house. - Yeah. - Right? And so you incentivize him with the choices he gets to make. Not a, like you said, a dictatorship, whereas I'm always pointing out how you can get better where you need to improve, where you're wrong. And dude, they will play that game with you, young people will, until the second they are free and then they are gone. - Yeah. - Yep. Well, and that terrifies me is that he'll just, he'll remember his dad as a dictator and then he'll leave at 18 and he'll see me once a year at Christmas and that's it. - That's it, man. That's terrifying. - Yeah. - Terrifying. - Yeah. - The only path you have in front of your brothers is to sit down with them and use the weight room example. Instead of cheering you on and saying, all right, get that squat as high as you can. I lectured you about something that I kind of sort of know, but not really. And I was wrong. I should have been cheering you on, dude. 'Cause I hate leg days and your mom likes my big arms. Or like, you know what I mean? - Yeah. Yep, no, it's definitely the right thing to do here. And please hear me say, this is not about no accountability. This is not about you just do whatever you want in no way, shape, form, or fashion. I'm a strict dad. And also, I'm strict about things that me and my wife have decided that we really matter to us. - Yeah. - Not haircuts. Not me, you want to wear those shoes in two different socks, knock your lights out? - Yeah, I think both some things we have my wife and I have definitely, you know, we've gotten better both stuff like that, I think. Because we've let him have his own style, even though it kills my wife and she absolutely hates it. But you know, that's the natural order of things. That's the way it should be, right? - Yeah. - Yes. Yeah, but like, you know, if he wanted to, if he wanted to get some photos done, and she's like, tell him, if he's telling me in private this, just absolutely like. - Okay, but the thing, think about that message that your son is internalizing. - Yeah. - And that message is this. I don't want a picture of who my son thinks he is at this age. I want a photo of an imaginary fake version of us that we can show off to the rest of the world. - Yeah, yeah, no. - You know what I'm saying? And that's the world, that's the air your son breath. - Well, so we compromise with it. Can you like, you can wear, pick whatever style, but can't be a button down at least. Like, whatever shirt you want, but can it be that? - But that's where, again, that's where our relationship is. Hey, dude, take one for the team. - All right, I will. Right? - Yeah. - And even the most hardened punk rocker, even the most hardened, who like country, they'll take one for the team. I got that. - Yeah. - I'll do that. Right, if it's based not in me versus you, but it's based in relationship. And so anyway, dude, if I'm you, I would sit down and say, here's what I'm asking. Here's what I'm gonna tell you. I've messed this up. I've spent the last however many years. I love you so much and I'm worried about you in the world you're inheriting, the world you're about to enter into. I've tried to make you perfect and I've tried to make you sometimes somebody that you're not. And I've tried to project the things that I wish I had done differently onto you. I'm sorry, you're my son and I, love you. We have a standard of the way we do things at our home. We're gonna treat people with dignity and respect. We're gonna work hard and be excellent in those things. That's who we are. But I'm way more important. I'm way more interested in loving you and having a relationship with you. It would be an honor to me if you came to breakfast with me once a week, just you and me the last year. It would be an honor to me. I've got this awesome leather-bound journal. I'm gonna put it on your bed at night. Write me five things you're grateful for and just drop it on my bed on the way out, drop it on the kitchen table. And I'll fill it out and I'll put it back on your bed. You might don't wanna talk to me but we can least write back and forth. All of my nitpicking and poking has been me trying to love you well and I realized I didn't, I pushed you way more than I invited you in. Whew. That's a tough conversation to have, Jeff. But man, that's the right one. 'Cause you're right, there's a real possibility that he walks out that door at 18. You see him twice a year and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. One of the future dream goals my wife and I have is that no matter where my kids go in the world, no matter what chaos they get into or what chaos comes upon them, their first impulse is always, oh, I can go home. That's always a good place to be. That means I have, I've had to work really hard on not being right all the time but being likeable. Not being a pushover, but being likeable. Thanks for calling, brother, I'll be right back. All right, you've heard me talking about it for a month and it's official. My brand new book Building the Marriage You Want is available for pre-order. Picture me sitting at the table with you and your spouse helping you both take the next right step in your marriage. That's what this book is, me sitting at the table with you both walking you through what to do in your marriage. I get into all of it. Why marriage is so hard in the 21st century, why I think marriage still matters and I'll give you a playbook for the stuff that trips Most couples up communication, conflict, sex, money, being married with kids, all of it. Nothing is off the table. If you like this show, you're going to love this book. Pre-order building the marriage you want today for $24.99 and get over $100 and pre-order bonus items. Go to johndalone.com. All right, Kelly. Am I the problem? All right. This one's a little bit different. She's more looking for some perspective. Let me just read it. This is from Jamie in Simpsonville, South Carolina, and she says, "Hey, Dr. John Kelly in team. Thank you for all you do. All right. I'm not sure if this is an am I the problem question or something you can just help clarify. On different episodes, when you talk about a marriage after a major struggle and say things like your marriage is over or you have a brand new marriage, my husband always cringes a little. I personally understand the concept, but he sees it differently. We've spent 23 years together and certainly have gone through our share of bumps and trials along the way. He's adamant that we would never want to toss those years or that marriage into the past. Instead, he sees it as a continuing to grow and build on everything we've already been through together. His thought is that saying your marriage is over almost feels like kicking the foundation out from under the house rather than repairing it and continuing to build. Curious on how you'd respond to his perspective on that? Great, great, great question. Shout out to husband there. Here is my response slash rebuttal to what he's saying I 100% get and that's where I was for years and years and years. What it's not it's not trafficking in reality. Here's what I mean. You're not kicking out the foundation that foundation's already gone. You're not if you have like what you say bumps and bruises along the way, bumps and trials. If you think about that, like if you're building a home and you're pulling out the concrete blocks that show up on the big palettes and you're building this thing, if there are trials and broken center blocks, you don't want to be like, well, this is in the palette. This is part of us. We're going to keep we're going to stack these up here anyway. You're going to say, hey, these are broken. We're putting them over here. We're going to build a new thing. We want to use new materials and new things. Of course, you're not going to just get rid of your memories. You don't have like a control delete button, right? But the what berries, marriages in the present is trying to drag the past and say, look what used to be, look how we used to feel, look how pretty used to be. Do we were watching that show the middle? You know that show the middle? That show is so fun. I missed it when it can't it is so funny. But there is this Patricia heat, you know, I just thinks is the best. She was looking at her new driver's license and she was older like by a long time than she was the last one. And she's like, oh my gosh, I look, I look old and awful and then her husband walks by and she said, she says, does it ever make you sad that I'm not like young and beautiful like I used to be and he's like, Oh, yes, total bummer. What are you going to do? He just kept walking. I started dialing like, if you're constantly pulling what you used to, we used to remember when that the new thing you're building can't, it can't bear the weight of all that past off. So when I say you're building a new marriage, you are using the same site, you're using the same design, you're, I mean, the same, the same, same two minds who are creating the blueprint and the architectural designs, all stuff. But yeah, you're saying in this new world, in this new season, in this new life, here's what we want this place to look and feel like. And so I get what he's saying, but he's not understanding the depth of what was your marriage before you had kids. It doesn't exist. It's gone. Your marriage when you had just three toddlers and y'all can still kind of get away. It's over. And your marriage and y'all have, now that you have no kids, it's the thing that was doesn't exist anymore. And so you can feel like, you can, you can semantics at all you want, like we're building on the past. Great. Cool. What you're doing is you've got two people that have been through the ringer together and y'all are back at the table saying, how do we want this new version to look and feel and we get to build that together. And that's the, that's the past that you're bringing, but not the old stuff. Does that make sense? I make it more confusing. No, I think it made sense. It was a little confusing and messy for me until you said the part about that marriage like, you can't go back to the marriage you had when you didn't have kids, now that you've got two toddlers at home. Or, you know, when the kids all leave, you can't go back to when they were all at home. You have a new marriage. It just is. It's a new phase. So you have to figure out what that looks like. Yes. And, you know, if you're thinking about it building on the past of a big bump or trial, like an affair or some kind of material, anything like that, you don't want that marriage anymore. You don't want that as a part of your foundation, right? Like, we're going to excavate it and we're going to say, we get to decide what happens next. Yeah. And so it, here's a thought experiment. If you, if you wrestle with that analogy, A, totally get that. That's awesome. So consider what it would mean to swipe the deck and build your marriage with your right or die spouse of how long, 17, 20, 25 years, however long they were together. 23. 23 years. What would it look? What would you do differently if you got to build it from the floor up? Who would you want to be? Who would you want your spouse to show up as? Do that thought experiment and you don't have to go with it. Just try it. Try to say, okay, here's how I want to build this new thing up. And yes, you've got memories from the past, of course you do. That's beautiful. But you're going to bring those things like a Pinterest board to your new architectural design of your new marriage. Hope that helps. I love it. And I love people who push back on my metaphors. That makes them stronger or makes me throw them out and get something new. So love you guys. Bye.