(upbeat music) - Brought to you by my friends at Churchill Mortgage. If you're looking to buy or refinance, check them out. I've used Churchill and they are great. Go to Churchill Mortgage.com. - My husband and I, who originally when we first met about 19 years ago, had very similar views on politics. But over the last decade or so, we have come to be almost on completely opposite sides of that and he is, it makes him very, so that's the case. - What's going on, what's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloni Show. I'm so grateful that you're here pull up a seat and we're gonna just hang out and we're gonna figure out what's the next right move for you to take. What's the next action step you can take in your marriage with your kids, with your mental and emotional health, even with your physical health, with your work, your job, whatever you got going on in your life, pull up a seat and we'll figure out the next right move. I'm so glad that you're here. If you wanna be on the show, click the link in the show notes and we will get you on. Let's go out to Dallas, Texas and talk to the great and wonderful Emily. Hey, Emily, what's up? - I'm good, thank you for taking my call. I'm very nervous, I'm so glad that you're here. It's good to talk to a fellow Texan, even though you're from Dallas and that's a whole thing. But listen, I'm glad that you called. What's up? - Well, over the last, I guess decade or so, my husband and I, who originally when we first met about 19 years ago, had very similar views on politics. But over the last decade or so, we have come to be almost on some completely opposite sides of that and it makes him very upset that that's the case. I'm of course not happy that we don't have the same views, but for him, he kind of puts it in this framework of that I don't, because I don't follow him in that area, I don't have a respect for him. And I feel like I've just come to these views because I consider these positions and thought about them, but he seems to view it as a threat to our relationship and I don't know what to do with that. - Wow. So he's hinging this idea of respect equals perfect agreement. - Not even agreement, but I should come to him first for any information about the world. Like he's told me, oh, no, don't read these websites, don't listen to these people. He found it disrespectful that I would seek outside sources about political or other cultural information before coming to him and that I should be following him. And I just, I don't understand it. It doesn't make any sense to me. - Yeah, yeah, that's a level of control. I mean, because you're talking about thought control at that point, you're talking about like mind filtering. - Yeah, that's how I feel it is. I'm like, really, you want me to just turn my brain off and I'll maybe be like, oh, he said this. So because he thinks I think he's stupid or that he's, I think that he's not trustworthy. And I'm like, I don't think you're stupid, but I think we just have different views of what's going on in the world. And he just cannot accept it. He says, you know, the kids are just respectful and you know, oh, look, if you don't respect me, they're not respecting you. And he kind of makes it this thing. And so take politics off the table for a second. Where, because I mean, you know this, I know this every listener knows this. There's probably as long as I live. Like of the few things I, like when I'm going for long runs or long walks in my neighborhood or I'm hanging from a tree during hunting season, I'm just sitting by myself for hours. And I try to contemplate, try to get to the bottom of a thing. Right? - Mm-hmm. - Yeah. - This is one that I will never understand. That I haven't been able to grasp. Even my understanding of, and it's limited, but even my understanding of like evolutionary psychology and tribal behavior is like, I can't wrap my head around above family, above work, above friendship, above faith. There's been this lockstep allegiance to a particular political viewpoint and everything else falls through that. Filters through that. And I honestly don't have a great answer for you there. What my, so I want to take politics off the table for a second, because this rarely happens in a vacuum. Where else does he accuse you of not being respectful or not following him? - How much time do you have? - Yeah. - Yeah, it's a lot. It's, you know, my priority is about what I do during the day. We homeschool our three children, choices I make, you know, with that, often it's like if I make a comment that I don't feel is, I mean, I'm not calling him names or I don't know if I'm putting it down, but he'll tell me, that was really rude and disrespectful. And I'm just poached by it. And it does create a lot of anxiety because I'm kind of only feeling like, well, what I say today, be considered disrespectful. - Right, you're on eggshells in your own house. It's not a safe place anymore. - Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't feel that way a lot, but kind of now, especially with, you know, we've got the elections coming up and just, you know, everything is just so there's political ads will come up, you know, we're watching, you know, streaming service together in the meeting, you know, come up and I'll just tense up because I'm like, oh my gosh. You know, is he gonna start something? - Here we go, exactly. And if I try to like kind of speak my opinion, you know, you'll have something, you know, to counter that and then he'll get upset because, you know, I'm not just immediately kind of going over to what he's saying and realize, oh, what he said is true. Even though I have checked some of the things he said and they have turned out not to be accurate. And I don't bring that up either. I don't even know, that's gonna make it worse. So I'll be like, well, I checked on, you know, if it's another thing too, if he finds that I have checked on like something that he said, that makes him feel like, oh, she doesn't trust me. - Without seeing the irony that he's not trustworthy. - He will swear up in the outside ways. He's done everything he should ever do that I should trust him. And he does provide for a family - Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. - He's probably the children, he's not, you know. - I get all that, I get all that. - What do I do with that? - Here's what I want to be careful of. So I don't think this is about politics. - Okay. - Possibly, I think politics is a huge proxy war y'all are engaging in on a regular basis because it serves as a tangible flashpoint. - Right. - But the thing beneath the thing is, there is a husband who's increasingly losing his grasp on himself, what he knows to be true, what he believes about the world, trying to see through the fog of what's a future going to look like for me, how am I going to continue to provide? And on either side of the aisle, you have somebody yelling, all of your pain, all of your frustration, all of your angst is because of them. - Right. - And we're going to dehumanize the other side, we're going to call them names, we're going to just point and point and point and point, and that's a way that somebody who feels like they're drowning can feel like they're grabbing hold to something. And my hope would be that he would grab you and you would grab him. - Right. - And y'all would say, "Hey, the world is chaotic, it's a total zoo." And now we're always telling us, we're all gonna be dead in four years. Like, you know what I mean, like, in that fog, my hope would be that y'all can grab each other and say, "It's you and me, versus the world, it's you and me, instead of you, versus me." And so politics is an easy place to say you're right and you're wrong. I've done my research, well, I've done my research, right? Like, that's an easy place, but the real issue is, there's a husband, there's a man in your life that feels like he is losing his grasp on his world, and the only thing he's trying to control, what he can control, and he has come to believe that that also includes you, and the thought you think. And my wife and I had a long, like, talk last night, just thinking through some of the science, some of the responses of the Sydney Swinney thing, last night we did. I am desperate for somebody to give me a different way of seeing something in the way I see it. And so I don't find, I find very, not only do I not find security and everyone around me believing what I believe, but it makes me start to get itchy, makes me start to assume that I'm missing something. If everybody around me is like, yeah, I start to get, and maybe that's just because I'm a contrarian by nature and whatever, but I don't have a psychology for what your husband's going through, other than to say, you have to make a choice, 'cause all you can control is you.
You can't control that. - Right. - And so my dream for you and your husband would be that you are able to get somewhere where clear the deck and say, "Hey, I still love you, I'm still in on it." But we gotta get down to this. We gotta come up with a joint definition of the word respect. - Yeah. - Because it's also, I mean, wildly disrespectful to not let the person you love have their own thoughts and their own feelings and their own emotions and their own opinions and their own insights. I can think of few things more disrespectful than that. - Right. - Right. But you all have to come up with some common definition. And if you can't, if he says, "My definition is you do what I say, you come to me, you don't ask anybody, you go to no websites, you talk to no friends, I'm gonna tell you that's abusive." That is a way of controlling another human being that is diminishing and ultimately unsafe. 'Cause it won't end there. - Right. - It will then become, and if it's not already, you will do what I say. And then it will be, you will do things. I don't care how uncomfortable they are, how tired you are, how sick you are. You will do what I say, because you must, 'cause I own you basically, right? I own your mind, I own your body, I own everything. - Right. - I have tried to again, like, this is not respect, like you're asking for obedience. This is something different. And he's really got it in his head that, 'cause I think it feels, because he interprets his feeling and then in himself as he's being disrespected. And I think it's something deeper than that. - Yeah, it 100% is, yeah. I mean, there's no question about that. So I guess I'll turn around and hand the baton back to you. What are you gonna do? What's your path forward? - Honestly, I don't, I don't have a plan right now. I just, I feel like if I do bring it up, it's just gonna be more, he's very determined. Excuse me. He's very determined that his way is the right way. - Is there, is there, so I'll take a track, and I may be off base here. Let's say he is trying to always retain footing as an alpha, as I'm the man of this house. I provide, I'm the this. You stay at home, you homeschool my kids, right? Like, I'm trying to take that track. - Yeah. - Even the most hardened men like that that I know. And I don't like to associate with men like that, but I do know those guys. Their wife looking at them and saying, you're making me feel less safe. Being in my house, our house, or having forbidden in your house, I don't feel safe here. And even the most hardened guy, their shoulders drop and they don't want their wife, their girlfriend, their partner to feel unsafe. And if you can't hear that, then my challenge to you is to just acknowledge the reality that you live in, which is either A, I'm gonna make peace with the fact that I live in a pretty anxious tense home. And over the next few years, just expect that vice grip to tighten and tighten and tighten. 'Cause I don't see anything but chaos coming our way. And that's why I'm so adamant right now in this season of helping people be married well. Because that's a built in gang, built in, y'all got each other when you got nothing else, right? And either you make peace with that or you make peace with alternative plans. - All right. - Well, tell me what you're sitting down and yell at it, I don't even know if a diner would be a good idea for you all too. You're sitting on the back porch and you hold his hand and you say, I hear you don't want me to do these things, you feel disrespected when I don't agree with you, et cetera. - Yeah. - I feel unsafe in our home. What would his response be to that? - Probably that he doesn't want me to feel unsafe but that things are supposed to be done in a certain way that this is a certain framework that has been put around a family and that I need to understand that. Well, he wouldn't say he wanted me to feel unsafe. He would try and, you know, be assured of me. I'm not gonna, you know, but it would still be him. I feel like it would still be him sticking to this is the way things should be to have a good family and that I am the one who, myself, and the one who is kind of making it not possible by not following in his footsteps. That's how I feel it would go. I mean, I'm not be wrong. I've never done that because I just, I don't like conflicts and I don't like who it goes. - Well, and so I guess what I would post to you is you're in a conflict. - Yeah, that's true. - And there will be a showdown at some point. - Yeah. - There will be a line that he crosses, there will be a, like you just give up and your kids, by the way, are absorbing all of this. And so I always, always, always prefer the negotiating table over war, always. - Mm-hmm. - And so at some point, this is happening. You're already in a conflict. So trying to avoid a conflict now is too late. The ship has sailed. What a conflict is upon you. I would spend some time writing down what you would love to say and finding the most compassionate way forward and be prepared for an or what statement, right? And I always tell folks that like, or what if he looks at you and says, "That's stupid, I'm not doing any of that stuff." You will do what I say. - Yeah. - And then you have an or what moment. Are you gonna pack the kids up? Are you gonna go stay at your mom's house? Are you going to just exhale and say, this is the rest of my life? - Yeah. - Are you gonna just put the kids in school and say, "I'm going to get a job." Like, you get to take an autonomous track. My hope is y'all do it together, but it's not always possible. - Right. - Sorry, I can't be more help. - No, I appreciate it. - Oh, quote, when my buddy Ian Simkin says, "Whatever you think hate is doing, "whatever you think your control is doing, "love can do better." Opening your hands up can do better. Say, "I'm scared, and I don't know, can do better." We'll be right back. - This episode is brought to you by Better Health. Every year, you tell yourself you're going to handle this year's holidays differently. You're gonna stay calm or you're gonna feel more peace. But then the same old patterns show up. The same family tensions. 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[email protected]/deloney or click the link in the description. All right, we're back. Hey, building the marriage you want. My brand new book is available for pre-order right now. And so here's the deal of pre-order. I'm going to send you some free stuff like an enhanced audio book, a link to a talk I gave about communication and marriage. I'm going to send you some stuff. But the real blessing is y'all are helping me out. We'll ship the books out as soon as they're available. But pre-order helps me. It helps get the book out to more people and it helps more and more distributors pick up the book. And so this is just me asking. I know it's a pain to send somebody 24, 99, 25 bucks on something that you can't get right away, especially in this current day and age when you can like hit bye now and like somebody will drop a helicopter in your front yard. I totally get it to say, hey, send me 25 bucks and I'll send you something in a few months. But pre-ordering the book, building the marriage you want is such a huge help. And by the way, I've got this question already. This book is for folks who are considering engagement. Folks who are engaged all the way through folks who have been married for 50 years. I wrote everything I know about marriage and what I believe about it, how we got here and how to do it. So pick up this book, building the marriage you want. It's all out of my head on this thing called marriage that I believe right now to state of boldly is our last great shot we got is for people to say, right or die, you and me, us versus the world. And here's how to do it. So go.
go to johndaloney.com and pre-order it now. It'd be a real, real gift. All right, let's go back to Dallas, Texas. We're not going out to you. Let's go back to Dallas, Texas and talk to Lynn. Hey, Lynn, what's up? - Hey, how are you? - I'm all right, how are you? - I'm doing well, thank you. - Awesome. - What's up? - Okay, I'll get a bit right to it. Should a husband and a wife share their business accounts with each other? - Ooh, nice. Okay, so tell me about your particular situation. Great question. So my husband and I each have our own separate businesses. I've had mine for almost 15 years and he has had his for about 12 years. And we're signers on each other's account, but I have no ownership in his and he has no ownership in mine. And recently he asked if he could have a debit card to my account and it surprised me and I asked why and he didn't have an answer. He didn't know and in my heart, I was thinking, no, you can't. And so yeah, so that started it. I can give you quite a bit of context whenever you're ready. - Yeah, I wanna go backwards on this one. Usually context is really helpful, but I think there's like a first principles thing here, okay? So you've probably heard me say, I think 99% of couples should share a single checking account that all the money goes into. And you've heard me say this over and over. Y'all's debts are y'all's debts. And y'all's bonuses are y'all's bonuses. And like, so I like that framework. And my wife has her own business and it has never occurred to me to get access to that, right? Like that's her business account and I have, I work for a network, right? And so, but I've got, I don't know, multiple streams that come in in different places and all like my take home goes, it all goes into the same checking account, right? And so, I'm uncomfortable that you're uncomfortable. - Right. - So give me some context here 'cause I know, my immediate answer is no, I don't think y'all should share. Let me put it this way. I know the bank that my wife's business is at and I'm on, I've got access to those things, right? But I don't have a debit card with the bank account. I don't have any access, that doesn't make any sense to me. And so, no, I would never go spend money out of my wife's, so no, y'all don't need access. It's like there's two different businesses. So no, zero access to that kind of stuff. But your take home pay that you y'all pay each other, your draw from each of your individual businesses should go into a single account. So that's what we do, that's exactly what we do. And then when it comes to the business, so when he started his business, he started it because he loved how much I loved being a business owner and doing my own thing. I was like, "Mom, a four," and I could just kind of balance my schedule. But I was struggling financially. I didn't have any other employees or anything. So he started a business and we always joke that he's able to make a lot of money but he's not able to manage it. And he was very nice if I needed something for spending for my business and he would help out. And so now here we are years later and my business is doing amazing. For the first time ever, I'm completely out of debt with the business, I've got money saved up, not a lot. But I do, I'm in a really good place. And I haven't used his business for years and for him all of a sudden to say, "Hey, I'd like access." And I should say that if his business is kind of slowing down and he actually has a full time job doing something else and he just has this side business. But because he doesn't manage the money well, he often doesn't have enough money in his account. And he started asking me, "Hey, can you transfer some money? Can I borrow money?" And if he borrow, he always gives it back. So it's not where I'm not willing to share. It's literally the access for the debit. And I should say that when he asked me this about a week ago, I said, "No, but what do you need? I can help you." And he said, "Hey, I need to transfer in a thousand dollars up to pay for something." And I said, "That's no problem at all." And then the next thing I knew, he went into the bank to do it and he said, "Well, I didn't need that thousand dollars, but I went ahead and took $250 out. So I had some cash just in case I needed it." And I said, "That's the problem. We can't do that. I need to, I budget and I need to know what everything is. If you need that thousand dollars for a specific thing, that's one thing. But if you're just going to take $250 out, that's a totally other thing." And so by the end of the weekend, he ended up meeting $1,500. So all of a sudden I had loaned him close to $2,000. And the $250 that he just kind of took out was, I don't want to say it's lost. He's going to pay me back, but it was unnecessary. And now he totally disagrees with me. He says that we should be sharing our business accounts, and he's threatening divorce. He's passionate. I'm what I think I'm similar to your life, and he's similar to you where he has a lot of emotions and feelings. And I mean, he's almost crying. He's saying, "I don't understand why you will not share this with me." Because it's-- I don't like that you're loaning money. Right. Like that, you know, I don't like that he's asking you kind of borrow some money from your business. I mean, you have a burger king, and he has a McDonald's. Right. And there's no like, hey, I need to borrow some buns or some cups like they're different. If you wanted to take an extra $1,000 draw and put it into your personal checking account, and y'all, like, I've joked in my house like, when my wife's, she's an author. And let's say she's doing a book release party. I'll say, I want to invest into your company with our money, right? Like, I want to make an investment into this-- I want this book launched to be even more ridiculous than you want it to be, right? We have that talk, but it comes from our checking account. Right. Right. Well, then that's what I've-- But here's the thing. This in a cache, I feel like I'm saying this all the time now. This business to business thing is the proxy war. The real issue is, and I'll say this pretty boldly, your husband's not trustworthy. And now he's threatening divorce. And y'all have way bigger fractures in your marriage than this business. You're 100% correct. I think that I've gotten into a place where becoming more successful. And she's not shocked or surprised, but he's used to being the breadwinner, which he still technically is, but I've got this company that's doing really well. So he sees it successful. And he'll make small comments, like, one time we were talking to people and I was talking about my new office. And he said, oh, yeah, I office out of there, but he doesn't. And he's just-- I don't know if it's a power thing or what it is. That sounds like a deep-- I'm shocked. Weird insecurity. Yes. So I don't know what-- Linda, you know what I would give from my-- from my wife, just suddenly just start crushing it. Well, that's what he says. He wants me to be successful. And that's why I'm shocked. And I don't know what to do. I mean, am I standing on my-- standing my ground about this account? Which I feel like I'm-- I think the more y'all fight about the accounts, the further a part you're going to get. You're missing the main point, right? Which is, honey, I've seen you become increasingly more dishonest. Not to the point that now you're threatening me. You're lying to our friends. Like, you told me you needed $1,000 for a specific purchase. I foolishly said, I'll loan it to you. Which creates a division at our kitchen table. That's on me. And then you went and stole $250,000 out of my account. You can't do-- I mean, my business and his business aren't slush funds, especially for a business that's now a hobby. When I try to talk to him about it, he gets-- well, first, he gets angry. But this one, he almost has tears in his eyes, which doesn't happen a whole lot. But it's like we're in two different planets. And I don't know how to make him understand because he just completely disagrees with it. And culturally, he's part Hawaiian. I've noticed that we've been married for almost 20 years. I mean, they're a very giving culture. It's amazing. But it's to their detriment. And I don't know if it's something like that or what it is. But I don't even know how to explain to him that he can't, because I need this for my business. Now, what am I willing to give? One of my best friends is from-- I get the cultural part of that. But I want to say, you all have built something for two decades, right? And y'all have norms, and y'all have-- y'all have a world y'all have built together. And it appears that the violation of the norm y'all have built together is what's here. And you going spelunking to try to figure out, well, maybe 30 years ago and 25-- I'll tell you that's a distraction from the problem at hand. Right. And so, again, I always come back to these first principles. All you can control is you.
And what I am, what I'm going to do and what I'm not going to do. And if he's to a point where he's weeping with you and saying, "Oh, this is mine." You all have to get to that deeper layer, which is we're on separate pages in our marriage. And we got to rebuild this marriage from the floor up. And build on trust, and you got to tell the truth, and if you need money for a thing, it's going to come out of our joint-checking account. We're not just going to trade business dollars back and forth with each other. But again, I use the word flippant, not as a pejorative, not as a negative thing, right? But how flippant you are about. Yeah, here's take this, take this, um, that. I'm trying to say this carefully. You can just say it. Yeah, I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to say it carefully. You're dangerously close if you're not already to have lost respect for this guy. I have. Okay, that's where we got to start. I agree, because. So, I know that diagnosis, but I mean, he is ADHD and bipolar. Now, I'm clinically diagnosed, and I've known it for a while. We spent quite a bit of time on it. So, he was, but now he stopped taking his medicine. Okay. And that's a whole other thing, because he has his highs and his lows, and he doesn't like, um, he always has this stigma, you know, because when he's on his medicine, I can tell if he didn't take it, and all of a sudden he's so mean, he's so mean. But that's not who he is, you know? I love him so much. Hold on, Lynn. Hold on, Lynn. It is. It's part of him. Right, right, right. It is. Right. It's part of me. I mean, I have. I have things that are wrong with me and I take medicine, and I try and tell him this helps you. Totally. So, but so, yes, going back to the respect thing, you know, are taxes. I can't do my business taxes because he has been procrastinating on his business taxes, which then affect our personal taxes. Or, um, you know, when he's spending money, and I know that he shouldn't be in his company, it's almost like I want my company, yes, because it's mine, but because I can hold us in case something else happens where he's dropped the ball, because he's procrastinating or not managing or not planning or doing something. And so, I'm just trying my best, but if I talk to him about it, he always comes back to, you always say it's me. I'm always the problem, but what if it's you? And I don't want to feel like I'm on my high horse at all, but I know that he's not treating something that he has. And we just get stuck because they don't want to argue with him. Well, and so that's got to be the baseline. Okay. Like, you have to do the things that you need to do just to be well in whole. And what an amazing stroke of luck, blessing, whatever you want to call it to be alive in the sliver of history, where sitting with somebody at some intervals, weekly, monthly, and taking the right medication can be transformative. How amazing, right? Right. Amazing. And so I will net, I mean, my whole career, my whole life has been sitting with people who have all kinds of different struggles. But sometimes you can't change, you can't just snap your fingers and like, weight lift or, you know, nutrition your way out of certain psychiatric conditions. That's just as it is. The same as you can't just like nutrition your way out of certain medical conditions, right? Cancer, whatever. But it's your responsibility to go get treatment. And to stay a part of, to keep treatment protocols going so that you can show up and y'all can anchor into each other. And you are not, not only are you not a bad wife, I would actually say you're an incredibly loving partner. If there are seasons when you have to say, for the sake of our home, so that we can keep it, for the sake of our lights, so they'll stay on, for the sake of our groceries, so we can still have them. I'm moving my money to this account so that, because you're unpredictable. And if you're with somebody who's with untreated bipolar, she can be real highs, highs. And we don't talk about it very much because the highs get a lot of the credit, but there's that the low lows are what's tough. Exactly right. And so I have to, because I love you this much, whether this storm, or your other or what statement is, if you are unwilling to love me enough, to love yourself enough more importantly, to do what you need to do to stay well and whole, then I have to make other choices then, because you are increasingly unsafe. It sounds to me, and again, tell me if I'm wrong, it sounds to me like you're holding onto a marriage, it doesn't exist. I didn't think you'd say that, but I mean, I've thought it. I just, you know, I listen to you a lot and I hear the people that love their spouses and they're trying really hard. And I don't know if, I don't know, I don't know what the right answer is because I know he loves me, he's just sick. Yeah. But he won't fix it. Yeah. And so if you choose to stay in this, which is I a thousand percent support, what are you mean, you're a grown-up, you do what you want, and I will sit here with you and know that staying in this with a husband who is struggling and refuses to manage it. And that's he has to decide he wants to do that, or submit to somebody who will help him with that. He won't do either. Then to remain in that, to remain safe in that, then you have to fill in the blank. You've got to take control of what you can control. And that means I'm going to weather these storms, I'm going to walk away from the outbursts. I'm going to protect us and myself financially. Again, I wish I had a more concrete, you need to go do this and this and this. The other thing you might do that I would probably do in your situation is reach out to his psychiatrist who he used to see, to reach out to his therapist who he might have seen in the past, and let him know he's headed down a pretty rough track and see if there's any way they can reach out, they can do some supportive care, because I'm afraid he's going to get to a place where he starts burning so many bridges. It's going to escalate at a pace that you can't, that nobody can grab, and then you get away from the rack and I don't wish that on anybody. I'm so sorry, I can't be more help other than to say you're not out of your mind, but I want you to the best you can step all the way back and begin to look at this clearly. And if you have a couple of people in your life that you trust, whether it's a therapist, or some good friends, just say, hey, I need some wisdom on this thing. What are you all seeing too? What are y'all experiencing also? Because this type of behavior is going to be shown up at his day job, and this type of behavior is going to be showing up at his side hustle. There's going to be a mess is everywhere, and maybe some sort of intervention, some sort of cohort of people who can sit in the living room and say, hey, we love you too much to let you keep setting your life on fire maybe. I haven't seen a lot of those be successful in this particular situation with bipolar, but maybe that's a shot. Thank you for the call, sister, I wish I could be more direct help here, but we're with you. And if you ever want to call on the show, I'm happy to talk to him. Happy, happy to talk to him. We come back, a woman asks how to know if rebuilding a relationship with her estranged dad is healthy or driven by guilt. We'll be right back. 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Kelly. She doesn't have a lot of gratitude in her heart and spirit. So who knows? She might be though. Let's go to Wichita talk to Wichita Kansas and talk to Rebecca. Hey, Rebecca. What's up? Hi, Dr. John. Good morning. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Good, great. Um, so I've listened to your show for quite some time and I've, you know, didn't have any inkling just yet to, you know, put in a question to you, but a few weeks ago on one of the recent episodes, you had a pastor that, you know, had a conflicting issue with, um, marrying his, his interview wife with, um, very controlling parents are just seeing the, the relationship of the parents were a lot deeper in layers and expected and that episode definitely spoke to me very much. So, um, so my question is, um, I have been, um, no contact with my father up till just August. It's been about 10 years since I just moved to Wichita for work, um, and got a couple things with, um, kind of textbook, um, he had an affair for probably 10 plus years. God know how long, um, within individual that, you know, kind of suspected, but wasn't shocked. Um, but the issue where it came to just keep cutting, cutting ties with him was, um, he had a lot of lives that built up the whole deceit show, um, like, didn't admit that this happened, went through whole, like, a lot of, um, what's it called, um, charades to show that, you know, I'm the family man, I'm, I'm this on that all for everybody else except my mom. And when I found out, um, they told us, like, right after my college graduation that they were not living the other for a couple years and didn't realize that because I was out of state, um, and he travels a lot and, um, there was just enough of things that it's hard because growing up looking back, he was my best friend. We did almost everything together. Um, everything I've done up till now was his influence, but it happened to be something I was passionate about with my work, with hobbies, everything. Um, and after my mom officially found out, like, when I first moved to Kansas, um, I was like, yep, that was it. You know, I was trying to do my best to go to front with for my parents to be cordial, but, um, that's when I just decided to cut off ties and he's been every so often been emailing me in the last 10 years, um, trying to connect back and I told them I said, I'm not ready. When I'm ready, I will reach out, but don't come on my turn on your turn. Um, and we've seen each other for a couple of years. My sister's wedding last year, so we've kind of existed in the space, but it was very weird the first few times, um, because it felt like a stranger, but. Can you get about reconnecting with them now? I have, I have opened up just in August. Um, I, I had an option to invite five people for my master's graduation, and so I extended that and it was in California, so I went ahead and did that. And when I finally did that, um, it felt very, oh my goodness, it felt like I was talking with a work quality was the dad, I have personally structured on, um, since I had cut ties in my dad, I felt like I grouped the dad that I, that raised me, I had come to terms with it, but there has always been the last probably two to three and a half years. But I'm like, should I reconnect you think I always check with myself, is it time? Um, should I do it? And I've always either chickened out or just felt like because he's always advised me what to do for my whole life, I'm like, I'm afraid that once I let him in, he's going to backseat start backseat driving my life again. So I have come up till now, I'm 30, almost 34 and I've managed 10 years in my adulthood to make myself my own person. So let me jump in here. So what is it? It sounds like the person you don't trust here is you. So if you may have heard me say this before, but one of the most disorienting things that I hear from couples who experience somebody cheated on the other person is not only the deceit. Right. Not only like the image of you having sex with somebody else, but how did I not know? What does that say about me? And or what kind of person am I to have been not seen the signs and been with somebody who could do that kind of thing. So what I hear often is, yeah, I don't trust my partner anymore, but I've lost trust in me. Or you may have a really strong opinion like if you ever cheat on me, I'm I'm out of here and then you just used to stay. And then there's that like self judgment like, oh man, I've been judging all these other women, all these other men for staying for all these years. And now I'm that person like. And so it's disorienting. And I think yeah, go ahead first. Well, and I think one of the cornerstones of adulthood is the both and because if you're honest, and this is a hard honesty, your dad was really helpful to you. And he gave you a lot of building blocks and he encouraged your passions and he put a lot of jet fuel in your in your tank. And he destroyed your mom. Well, things are true. He blew up your family and then he lied to everybody about it for years. Both things are true. And I think that the. In the world we live in now, what we like to do is mind something. One comment somebody made 15, 20 years ago. And we like to drag that and say that is who that person is forget all this other stuff. Or we like to say. If you do good, good, good, good, and then man, you really mess this up. All of the good gets gets wiped away. And I think that the complexity of being a grownup, the complexity of being well and whole is being able to hold the tension. And I feel like to where I feel like the last 10 years has opened my eyes as an adult. So like I knew that as a child, as a teenager, I couldn't control anything my dad did. So I have accepted that fact of life. So that's done. However, I feel like what sucks is the last 10 years. I have learned what really, you know, other parents and different parenting styles could do like what other friends of mine childhood had. Like frankly, I have told people that, you know, I haven't had contact or relationships with my dad as an adult, but my father long has become more of a dad for me than my own dad. And I feel like you're probably hitting a point of that it's maybe an enemy thing that I am starting to second guess myself of like, maybe this is what we should have. I should have had a relationship or I sound like I have an expectation going forward of what should be and it's very hard and I'm trying to there's a part of me that I'm like, I want to feel like I want to rebuild with my dad. But the same time it feels so fake at the same time too, because there's so much stuff that's been broken in between that, you know. And so I want you to, and this is an exercise, right, but I want you to stop saying I should have because you're here now. And I will celebrate the fact that you lost your dad and you opened yourself up to let another amazing paternal figure into your life who's been incredible. And there's going to come some grief with that because that should have been your dad and it wasn't. And there's some joy there because he showed up and he still show enough. That's all great. And wanting it to be either or all awesome or all all bad just isn't reality. The reality is it's messy. And so the question you have to ask yourself is not what I should have done five years ago or seven years ago or the question is, what are you going to do now? And I personally don't know that you need a big existential why at this point. Okay, just kind of drip feed it essentially. I think it's good for you to ask yourself like what am I what am I hoping to achieve with this relationship? Because we're reestablishing it and what do I want this to look like? And if part of you now that you're 34, do you have kids yet? We're wanting to try to yeah. Okay, so if part of you way down in there.
Underneath your anger and your heartbreak and your grief Kind of wishes you still had some of that data advice That doesn't make you a bad person doesn't make you weak And if some of you is terrified or all of you is terrified that he's gonna come in and try to co-manage your life again You're probably right But you're 34 years old you're married You get to choose what that looks like and if he chooses to run over your boundaries again Then he is choosing once again to not be in a relationship with you That's fair Yeah And what I'm kind of going forward now, I think Graduation was the first big step because that was on my terms of inviting him in I In the last, you know, I'm not from here. So when I do go visit family backing out for you I I check myself. I'm like do I want to meet up with dad this time around maybe maybe not maybe this time And I've got a couple opportunities going back to help for me at the remaining of this year that I'm like Okay, do I want to Last time I was I was there last week and I could have I we just are scheduled to connect but I was like Should I just meet with him Him and I you know Like on the table kind of open take should off take should off Okay, and ask yourself do I want to go have coffee with this guy who I haven't talked to in a decade who is is is basically a stranger And do I want to re-escalibrate as though he is somebody that I used to know yeah, and Knowing I can always just get up and walk out of the coffee shop I'm a grown-up. I'm 34 years old and I know your body will instantly transform you to 10. I know that's how that works Yeah, right But knowing Presetting up with your husband. I I'm gonna text you and you're gonna come get me or What like what like I I'm gonna open my heart up a little bit again And by doing that I might get filled up with Joy and love and I might get filled up with more pain That's the human experience Yeah, and I think there's a part of me too. They're little detail there He ended up marrying this person and now has a I think you six or seven now Yeah, see you have a house. Yeah, you got his own family. Yeah Yeah, yeah, so it's a whole lot of things Yeah, I think the I think the lie that that my community the mental health community has handed you is That if you get all these thoughts in the right order if you do all the thinking about it all that it will all make sense One way or the other and that's just not how it works Will make sense as you sitting down and saying this feels fake, but I don't know you kind of like a like a hinge date Very much right and so it's like I'm sitting here. Hello stranger Who by the way when I was young gave me life gave me a bunch of wisdom put me on a path It's now the path I've been on and blew my family up Yeah And so there's something to be said for I'm in the driver's seat and I'm gonna have a cup of coffee with this guy And I'll I'll tell you on on this end whatever imaginary conversations you've had with him Like letting him have it. It will not feel as good as you think it's going to It just won't you you'll end up feeling you scared Well, you'll end up feeling more sick Yeah, and on the other side of it just going there pretending nothing's happening being like that. I've missed you. That's not true either No, and so something about looking in the eye and saying What you did hurt us but you did hurt me and I've had 10 years of growing up and I'm ready to meet you again for the first time So you think probably and I think the first meeting we had was very much felt like we were pretending like Yeah, we've like picked off where kind of strangers are last time I saw them because it was a bigger group setting sure You think that we can just because it's just gonna be the two of us at least in public environment Just cards on table like I don't know him and I don't know you I know I have entered back into a to a lot of these type of situations Okay And I'm a sucker for sentimentality. I'm a sucker for I'm overly optimistic all of the time about former relationships Yeah to a to a a looney tuned degree And so I know that about myself and I get myself hurt all the time And it makes my wife sad. Yeah And I definitely don't want and what has been bothering me last 10 years when he's tried to put him back in himself Is he pulled on the heartstrings of you know the memories that we've had together. I was like I get it I've got it. It's in my head Remember but I'm pulling up If you know he's manipulative and he's trying to get his hooks back in you then I would yeah, I would stay away And if he is a heartbroken dad who knows he blew up everything and is trying to move on But he's got a humongous daughter size hole in his heart Okay He probably thinks of those memories every single day And so I'm not gonna fault somebody if I know somebody is is trying I'm not gonna fault if the way they're trying isn't the most perfect way And you're gonna have to choose to not be led by Feelings because none of this will quote unquote feel right as it's happening You're gonna have to have a pre-established If he says these things, I'm gonna say hey, I don't want to talk about that If he starts lying again or if he like whatever I'm gonna get up and walk out if he's disrespectful or rude or ugly whatever And if he says I've missed my daughter How can I make this right? I'd like to get to know you again You have an amazing little step sister this little step brother like You get to decide what that looks like and it's gonna feel awkward and it's gonna feel uncomfortable And it's gonna feel like I just want to hug him so tight until his head pops off And I want to hit him as hard as I can all those feelings are gonna be all over the place Can we have those feelings and Trust ourselves enough to stick to The purpose of this conversation is to say hello Just say hello and If we don't want to do that we're not gonna do that But we're gonna take the sheds off the table because you'll get buried in sheds And you're gonna get buried in should have and you're gonna get buried in Maybe's it I'm 34 I've got my life. I've got some great support. I got a great husband. I got a great gang We're working on starting a family um But I miss my dad The good and Not the bad So maybe I'll have a cup of coffee or maybe I won't you're the grown-up now so you get to make that call But as a sucker I would go on that Go have coffee because that's That's the life I've chosen to live and more often than not I get my heart broken and When I don't get my heart broken. I've got some life life life writer dialogue lifelong friends Because I went ahead that cover coffee That's a risk In such as relationships and love and life. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back Here's something most people don't think about you wake up a little stiff a little tired and you figure That's just how sleep is nowadays, but the truth is you've gotten so used to the mattress You've been sleeping on for the last 10 or 15 or 20 years that you don't even realize how bad your mattress actually is and it may be While you're not sleeping well and I got to say this too old mattresses get Gross Now is the time to finally get a new mattress and switch to helix Sleeping on a helix mattress will help you sleep better and better sleep affects everything else including your attitude Your emotional regulation and your health with more than 20 different mattress models Helix has a mattress designed just for you whether you're a side sleeper a back sleeper whether you sleep hot Or you and your partner have different needs you need helix get online and take their sleep quiz It takes like two minutes and helix will match you with a mattress built around how you actually sleep I sleep on a helix mattress every night It's the mattress I have in every room of my house and it's the mattress I recommend to all my friends in all of my family You don't know what you've been putting up with when it comes to your mattress until you finally make the switch and wake up feeling Rested and restored go to helix sleep dot com slash deloney to save 20% off site wide this month That's helix h e l i x helix sleep dot com slash deloney or click the link in the description with helix better sleep starts right now All right, something awesome happened. What is it Kelly? All right. This is from Sarah in Indiana, I'm not gonna try to name the town because it can't pronounce it. So she's an Indiana We're working on a reading good.
Well, I just I'm gonna pronounce it wrong. Hey, you're gonna get there, Kelly. Don't give up. Don't give up You're an ass I can read that you read that. Mm-hmm. That's all I got that words like I got three layers in it But it's what I use a lot. Yeah, you do All right, so Sarah writes not really a question, but I'm not great with technology and clicking the link in the show notes It's like asking me to find Narnia. So got it man Sarah shout out Shout out. I still don't even know what a link in the show notes is All right, I want to thank you for the incredibly important work you and your team are doing I am the adult child of emotionally immature parents. I have a raging case of ADHD I'm the wife to an incredible man who is stuck by me during a lot of bad behavior that I wasn't aware of and the cherry on top Is that I'm a young female criminal defense attorney in rural Indiana running my own private practice and also maintaining a public defender caseload My goodness Sarah gravy on a stick seriously Sarah's a gangster dude I started my own mental health journey earlier this year and your podcast and book have become a part of that journey More importantly you are free therapy. I can connect my clients to in an area worth fair with very limited resources I share relevant episodes with my clients and I keep your book and workbook in stock On my free mental health library in my lobby. So thank you for all of these life changing resources Dude, that's awesome shout out Sarah for being just a gangster. That's awesome and thank you for Man, I have high high high respect for folks who are on the public defender registry who help out folks in their communities And especially in rural communities. That's that is a special kind of person who does that so kudos to you and Thanks for sending the show around this show should never be mistaken for therapy I'm just a goofball on a podcast, but um, I do appreciate you sharing the episodes for folks You think might benefit from it. Thank you so much for caring for your community. It's awesome way to go Sarah See killing that's what a that's what a good person does with their life. How would you know? Love you guys bye
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