Caller: My Husband’s Going to Strip Clubs . . . Again

all right the marriage kit is here this is me sitting with you and your spouse walking with you for a year in your marriage there are only a limited number of these available they will sell out get yours now at jondaloni.com i was going through some statements and i had like these this address like several times and i didn't understand what it was and then when i looked up the address it ended up being this strip club oh and i was first crushed i was like what the hell fast forward to now i have a hard time trusting him even though he's apologized what up what up what up what up this is john the dr john deloney show so so glad you're here i'm just watching kelly make mean faces at me you well you just said so and it was like and the words got stuck coming out it's very strokey it's very i was like do you have an aneurysm what just happened listen i've run on fumes before this it's like another layer i i didn't i didn't know i didn't know i had this other layer but i am finding the words just kind of getting all mushed up together as they try to exit and here's the problem um i have a pretty uh complex filtering system and i'm not going to be able to answer the question but i think it's a pretty robust system for the thing i think is funny and the words just that come out of my mouth in regular conversation that you have assured me would get us canceled and so it's a pretty robust filtering system and i'm finding the filtering the chief filtering officer has just been like you know what screw i'm out and so it's just all coming out in a big mush and that is why this show will never be live except one day we're taking a break and we're going to be back with another episode of the show we're going to be back with another episode of the show we're going to be back with another episode of the show except one day we're taking this sucker on the road hey listen if you would love to see the john deloney show live like yes me kelly ben a couple others in a room on stage just letting it rip with you all um shoot me a dm or reach out to kelly because i'm fighting for this thing i want us to go on the road and we'll hit up small theaters and comedy clubs and we will have the time of our i would absolutely love that we'll get some concert t-shirts made and it will be wheels aha i think that would be pretty wild because then you can't you can't censor me there um i can't censor you there in that room but i will be able to censor you before it goes out to the rest of the fair and they also lock up your phones at many of those places and so it would just be us in a room and then if that's that audience left and was like can you believe i'd be like i didn't say that and i will ask for a button that controls your mic nice so that i could just shut it off like you have right now exactly i'm glad you're here let's go out to houston texas and talk to arlene what's up arlene hi i'm glad to talk to you i had uh back in april of this year i was going through some statements um and i noticed a couple of statements like bank statements um yeah and i had like these this address like several times and i didn't understand what it was and then when i looked up the address for the transaction it ended up being like this strip club oh and it was over like a thousand and i was first crushed i was like what the hell are you married and i mean are you with somebody yeah for over a good 15 years over 15 years okay all right and so um this happened when we were young and he swore he'd never do it again we had been having lots of issues and problems communication wise and then when i asked him confronted him he's like um that's an atm machine transaction and of course i knew it was a lie and then fast forward to now i have hard time trusting him even though he's apologized and he did come out after i've confronted him that was two years ago let's get over it whatever but i can't i can't so you you found in april of this year and here we are something that happened two years ago okay okay and i just feel stupid yeah um what what led you to go through the bank accounts now were you were you fishing for something did something feel off or were you just doing i had been no i had been filing some paperwork that i had been piled up there and i was going through everything and i was like okay i like to order organize all my bank statements and i was like damn i'm like behind three or four years and so i was reading everything and then i was like okay that's january february i was having everything in order and then i try to keep three years because um we have um some taxes that we're still working on from 2024 and 2025 we just tried to clear it up gotcha and i was like i need to get everything together and make sure the accountant has all the information gotcha okay and when i looked i was like i don't know what it is so that's when i kind of did some research um so how can i help one i keep bringing it up we are going to counseling he has the let's go to counseling so we are doing that you you said you keep bringing it up yeah i get angry and i throw it out there and there's things that like will trigger it whether it's a movie a comment or whatever or i'm noticing everything like oh my god i feel like now everywhere i go he's checking somebody out gotcha and i was never like that and i feel like i'm not pretty enough now i'm not what he wants and i'm not pretty enough now i'm not what he wants so i feel bad gotcha so now i'm just trying to like i mean he's doing his part he says i'm sorry he says he could erase history we're doing all the things that we're supposed to do and but i'm still angry so so let me ask you this is when you feel less than okay and by the way i don't want to minimize what he's done that's clearly a violation of your values and i'll go as far to say that's a violation of the agreement y'all had in your marriage on what fidelity looks like right um and here you are this many months later is throwing it back in his face is that helping you feel better no is is is being angry all the time is that is that helping you move forward no okay so what what what benefits the wrong word but what do you think that is serving for you not serving me anything but i i'm almost like paranoid at this point too like i'm checking phones i'm checking this i'm checking every statement and i'm i want to i feel like if you're going to do it again just do it to me now get it over with so that i can um be young enough to live my life like i don't want no more secrets is what i said i just rather if you don't want to be with me just say you don't want to be looking for something else to do it and let me go can i flip that around on you if you're going to leave him will you just do it yeah are you going to leave him no are you confident in that i am only because we are doing the necessary steps to move forward um and we can i know that 100 he's really trying and doing a lot of different things that i've requested okay and it's been um consistent and and i think if i didn't see that i would have had no hope okay so this is the tricky part about um and i look at fidelity a little bit broad more broad than did somebody sleep with somebody else okay i'll look at fidelity as we had an agreement we we had a we we decided what whole meant for our relationship and somebody violated that right right either deception financially or infidelity or emotionally or whatever we had an agreement and you stepped out of that and the path back is it sounds exactly what you're doing which is really great which is i'm going to give you a very clear path back and in your case what i've heard you say is we're going to go talk to somebody because we've got bigger issues in our marriage i want to see your phone i want to see your this like and so he's doing all those things and has been for months now mm-hmm and so this is always a tricky it's a direct a direct conversation but um it's uncomfortable okay so i just want to i want to pull that out there most people get frustrated understandably that when somebody violates the integrity of a relationship both people have work to do and we can say it's not fair i don't like it what all that's well and good but the truth is that if once somebody blows something up or maybe they didn't blow it up but puts a huge crack in the foundation um or knocks down one wall in the house or whatever whatever analogy you want to use both people have to be part of the rebuild and it can be easy to say it's not my job i shouldn't have to do this all that's right and that's the only way it works and so i'm looking at you saying if you are committed to this relationship then this is a really direct way to say this you get to choose whether you want to pursue peace in this thing or whether you want to protect yourself from this ever happening again which means you're going to lock yourself in a room from the inside and that way he can never get to your heart again which is going to paradoxically recreate this whole situation where he feels like he can't get to you and so hear me say this the only path forward is to risk this happening again oh that's scary you know what I mean that's the only way and that means you choosing whenever y'all are watching a show and like it cuts to the cops walking into the strip club and your heart just you just feel it you having a already pre-established quick process for self-soothing as the nerds call it I'm going to exhale through this I'm actually going to reach over and grab his hand when everything in my body says get away from me this is you again I'm going to fight through that tension because I know you're putting in the work and I know you're X, Y, and Z and we're working to get to the thing beneath the thing beneath the thing with a therapist with ourselves etc yeah you know this I'm a big proponent I think therapy is great I think licensed therapists are awesome and great coaches are awesome and if you don't go into therapy saying here's what I want to work on it just becomes this as Arthur Brooks says it's just everybody putting their grievances in a big cauldron and the therapist just stirs it over and over and over again he's doing the opposite I think he's saying you have a lot of anger and you need to release that and if you're going to forgive you have to forgive and God it's some work and it really is tough and every moment I feel like I felt like he killed what I thought was and I don't even think it was anything sometimes is that true and it's hard because maybe some people look at that as it's not a big deal no you get to decide that right and so like yes people are listening right now and I've got friends who are like I don't care if my husband goes to a strip club I don't care about that right and then I have other friends who are like if my husband goes to a strip club I'm going to kill him and everyone else like you get to decide what the what the core tenant like the core structure of your marriage is and y'all both agree on it right right and so I tend to look at anger as a good thing because it points us towards it's an emotion that points us towards the way things should be and they're not where I'm afraid you're tipping over into so think of anger as an alarm system right it's just a big arrow right like a like a flashing arrow like you would see on a traffic sign pointing toward it should be this way and it's not right now but it's actually a direction arrow it's a place to walk towards rage is you choosing to not follow that arrow and walk towards it and metabolize it and not think about it but do the things that will bring y'all back together rage is I'm going to sit here and just because anger does feel powerful and when you feel like he violated and he had a one-up position like he had the power to take a thousand bucks out of the account and you didn't even know it and spend it on God knows what he chose to go spend the evening with his boys looking at naked women when he could have been with you and knowing that that hurt you years ago right and you can choose to stay right there you can choose to every time that lightning bolt image of him looking at some other woman him getting a lap dance and they're like you can choose to just meditate on that and it will feel self-protective or when that lightning bolt hits you can literally say out loud no not doing that and you can pull out a picture that you have in your back pocket of you and him laughing your heads off you can meditate on that but there's no way to mitigate like all the time you can't do that you can't do that you can't do that all relationship is a risk and when you decide I'm not willing to risk it anymore then the relationship's over so that's my question are you willing to risk it because it's going to be you choosing to set down rage walk through the anger ask anger like as a friend what are you trying to protect me from right right right no that's correct but this is a it's not a common thing that we're taught you can't control your feelings I don't believe I believe they just happen I believe you can steer them in certain directions over time but feelings happen big emotions happen you get to choose what you think about and meditate on the pictures you play over and over the stories you tell yourself over and over and over again and you get to choose what you do next because you're an autonomous adult thank you so much is that fair a little bit yes it is fair so let me say this nobody else gets a vote into what you believe is a violation of fidelity in your relationship period okay that's between you and your husband second your right to be angry and upset and frustrated and can I ask you one more question before I let you go yes how much of this is you feeling is the anger the I knew I wasn't pretty enough like all those kind of stories right we must have never had any kind of relationship like it's easier just to pretend it never it never there was no good in it than to deal with there was good and some bad right so it's easier just to like control all delete the whole thing how much of your frustration and anger and shame is him and how much of your frustration is him and anger and shame is there was a thousand bucks that were taken out of the account two years ago my husband was doing this behind my back and I didn't even catch it you feel embarrassed yeah yeah I feel embarrassed I think for me it's like 60% for him and 40% for me okay so whenever I feel ashamed about a thing I didn't do the healing path of that is to make some proclamations some identity statements I'm a person who checks the bank records every month and I'm gonna put a series of action steps so that this thing doesn't happen again right I'm a person who's gonna sit down and say okay I want to rebuild our marriage from the floor up I'm a person who and that that's how you reclaim the like storytelling in your mind replaying things over and over that's just I mean keeping secrets about you about how angry you are with him that that's just I mean that is fertilizer for shame taking action on who you're gonna be and at least being able to manage your 40% is really a powerful empowering way to put your pull your head back up throw your shoulders back and head forward into rebuilding a new relationship with this guy you're right thank you so much you got it I'm I'm optimistic for you guys for real thank you I appreciate that you got it and I appreciate you calling and be really intentional with your therapist like I like be honest with your therapist I'm still angry and I want some strategies I'm not leaving him and say that in front of him I'm not leaving you I want some strategies some very clear next steps for me to manage my anger and it might have anger may have been protective for you your whole life you may have learned it from your mom and your dad or your uncle or your grandparents I want that to stop with me I want anger to be simply what it is which is a signal an alarm system and I want some action steps so that I can either with the help of a counselor with my husband or with some girlfriends or by myself walk through that anger to the other side because it's just pointing you towards something that should be a certain way and it's not let's get to the thing that it should be I'm not going to do that and if he's doing all the right things and you're committed to being in it then ultimately you own the choice to manage your anger manage your frustration manage your rage and begin building something amazing that will heal you from the inside out thanks for the call sister when we come back a man asks how to set boundaries with his mother-in-law and get her to move out yikes this will be a good one I can't believe I'm saying this but Christmas is coming and you know what that means gift shopping and gift shopping can totally and completely suck the life out of you you spend forever picking 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I sleep hot on normal sheets, but cozier sheets keep me cool all night long. And don't get me started on their blankets. These blankets are massive and heavy and so, so soft. Not like cheap fleece blankets that they give you at office parties that are thinner than paper. Once you wrap yourself in this big, thick blanket, you're going to have to pry yourself off the couch. Cozy Earth has gear for you and those you love. The kind of gifts people will actually love and use every single day. And Cozy Earth's entire home and pajamas collection is 35% off for a limited time now through December 3rd. So knock out your entire gift list right now at CozyEarth.com slash Deloney. That's CozyEarth.com slash Deloney. All right, let's go out to the Utahs to Salt Lake City and talk to Jake. What's up, Jake? Hey, John. How's it going? All right, brother. How are you, man? I'm doing well, doing well. Hoping I can learn some things today. All right, let's let it rip. What's going on? Well, there's so much context, it's hard to know what to give, but I'll be as brief as I can. I find myself in a tricky situation where we bought the house from my in-laws and they have lived in our basement the last about eight years or so. And without, again, without giving too much context, my wife and I both really struggle with confrontation. We both grew up in homes where if you ever said a word sideways or talked back, you'd probably end up getting back or worse. And that kind of just taught us that any form of confrontation is just bad. And so we have a hard time with any kind of conflict resolution. And we've reached a point where it's, I mean, we have four kids, John, we have four small children. And it is time for us to have our house to ourselves and set a boundary with our mother-in-law, ask her, my mother-in-law, and ask her to move on with life. Yeah, again, so much context I could give, but that's the gist of it is we, we're finding ourselves in a situation where we need to have a hard conversation with her, but neither of us are really equipped with the right tools to do that. And, you know, I just don't even know how to start the conversation, to be honest. Yeah, I, I, yeah, that's a tough one. Um, I think the first place, I would start here as an outsider looking in is to ask you, ask your wife, um, she's not on the phone, so I'll just talk to you. Let your childhood, um, experiences, let those, and again, I'm saying this harshly. I know that, um, and a lot of that's because we have a compressed time together. Let your childhood experiences and what, what those taught you, let that as an excuse in today. So we were taught as kids that conflict is bad. Great. Period. At the end of that sentence. Yeah. We need to have a hard conversation. Any, second, any conflict comes up for either of us that, you know, the heart starts racing, um, start going flush, you know, all that. Right. And so when you're, when you feel your body heading off into protection mode, right into fight or flight mode, like, Oh, we got to gear up to go to war or let's just avoid, avoid, avoid. Um, there, there's a rule of thumb that is conflict deferred is conflict amplified. And so now you found yourself eight years later, right? Four young kids later. Um, and now the conversation is massive. It's huge. Yeah. And there's only one way or there's two ways. Keep going along and celebrate a decade together. All right. Um, or to go right through it. And whenever I feel my body taken off on me, a couple of strategies, one is I, I have to write everything down. Otherwise it comes out as emotional vomit. And I say things I don't mean, I don't say things clearly. Um, I'm not articulate and people can pretzel me up and I end up leaving the room. And I'm like, Oh, I'm not articulate. I'm leaving with less than what I came to the table with the first time. Right. I'll also say that my general rule of thumb is now y'all been together. I mean, you've been in this arrangement for eight years, so it may be different. My general rule of thumb is it's her, it's your wife's responsibility to talk to her parents. And if this was your family living downstairs, I would tell you it's your responsibility to sit down with your mom and dad and say, here's, here's what, what needs to happen. So let me ask you this, play it out for me. You and your wife sits down with her mom. Does her father still live in the house too? Uh, no. Shortly after we bought the house, he was diagnosed with liver cancer and we, we cared for him on his deathbed for four or five years. So he died about a year ago. Okay. So is your, is your mother-in-law, is she financially independent? Is this going to put her out on the street? Uh, she, I mean, she got social security. I think that's about it right now. Okay. So what do you, what do you want to reclaim or what, why do y'all want her to move out? Why, why do you want to kick her out? Just say it crassly. Yeah, no. Um, it's, uh, so we, we have not the biggest house, but it's, it's a decent house. Um, she has half of the house and we have half of the house and it, you know, she was fine when we first got here and it was just us, but four kids in, we, we really need the space. And to be honestly, the bigger part than the space is just the peace of knowing that it's our home and that, uh, we don't have to necessarily be subject to her, uh, unrequested opinions or judgments constantly. And that's where I'm wondering, is there layers to this? And there may not be, is there layers to your wife sitting down with your mom saying, Hey, we've got four boys. Now there's six of us in this house. We've got to reclaim some space here. And so where you have two, two bedrooms, plus the playroom, plus one of the bathrooms, we're going to have to, for this arrangement to continue, we're going to have to contract your space to a bedroom and a bathroom. We just got, we got too many, too many boys here and we want to be in charge of raising our kids. Right. And is that a possibility or have, do you know already after eight years together, your wife's grown up with her mom that will go nowhere? Unfortunately, it would just cause a lot of fights and arguments. I don't believe. Okay. Is there other siblings that your mom's, I mean, that your mother-in-law is going to end up living with? Uh, there are two siblings. Uh, one of them is, is not really an option. His wife said, I'll divorce you if she moves in with us. And then the other good God sibling, yeah. Well, there's, it's not unfounded, John. No, I gotcha. I gotcha. If they were different people in our situation, if my wife and I didn't have such a strong relationship with our, with each other, we might've been divorced. But there you go. Okay. Uh, the other sibling, um, is high functioning autistic. He, he, he is independent and living on his own. So the two of them could live together and essentially take care of each other. Yeah. And that's, I think the unspoken kind of all of us see the cards falling in that direction. Okay. Here's the thing. I think the first thing that I want you to make a ironclad commitment to yourself and to your wife and to everyone in this circle, there will be no unspoken commitments. We're going to put everything on the table. And so if, if that's a plan that you are going to kind of edge and hope and kind of maneuver towards the integrous thing to do, and the just walking straight through this thing, thing to do is to sit down with her brother or she sit down with her brother and say, we've got our houses. We're running out of space. Um, we're going, I would like to ask what could mom move in with you. And that way, when she sits down with her mom, or if you both sit down with her mom and say, we've got to reclaim this house. We got four grown boys. There's six of us. And we want to reclaim our autonomy in our home. We've already arranged with brother for you to move in. We're going to help with the move. We're going to like that way you give her a game plan. Cause I also, no matter how mean or whatever, um, or frustrating or opinionated or whatever, whatever situation I can imagine the terror of a 60 or 70 year old woman who just lost her husband after a four-year battle with cancer is going to naturally going to feel, oh, my daughter's throwing me out too. I've lost that also. And so being able to hand her a roadmap for here's what's going to happen next. Or you sit down with brother and he says, no way she's not moving in with me. Then y'all are able to say we've here's three apartment complexes. We've looked at here's a home we've looked at and we've all agreed. We can pitch in a hundred dollars a month for lights or water or whatever, if she needs that. Right. Right. Did your father-in-law leave any life insurance, any pension, anything like that? Um, yeah, it was a life insurance was all. Um, funeral and a few other things. I think she's maybe sitting on around 50,000, uh, left from that. How old is she? around 70 I want to say like 68 69 okay I mean she may have 20 25 years left yep yep um what what there was no your father-in-law had no retirement no none wow so to be honest do what she always said she she didn't either uh she always said that her retirement was her kids which they never agreed to well but it's working out for her yeah it is right um and so here's a couple of just rules of thumb number one um we're not going to have unspoken truths unspoken hopes we're going to put everything out on on the table and for me it sounds like for you for your wife um uh we're going to write everything out as clear as possible number two we are going to be aware of and feel the big huge feelings emotions you know she's going to come firing back with I can't believe you're kicking your mother out I can't believe you're throwing me on the street I can't believe you're abandoning me after like you know that's coming right and so and you also know any I mean not any kid most children adult children you're gonna feel guilty you're gonna feel frustrated you're gonna feel ashamed you're gonna feel embarrassed all those feelings are gonna be right and real and that doesn't mean the next right move isn't that she needs to move out right all right and there's also a math problem here that is technically not yours to solve but it will it won't be by your hand but it will end up in your lap and you know that I know that your wife knows that your and your mother-in-law knows that and in some ways she's taking advantage of it yep because you don't sound like somebody who's going to let an old woman die out on the street and so you and your wife pre-discussing here's how many dollars and cents we could put in an account or we could buy groceries or or or because my my fear is y'all don't have the conversation don't have it then it happens in a big dust up a big blow up right and then your mom your mother-in-law burns through fifty thousand dollars and she ends up right back in in your basement and you're like oh my god I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry mm-hmm yep and so the more you and your wife can plan the better I like that a lot I like that a lot and this is a strange thing confidence with conflict by the way this is sound this can sound so cheesy and I don't mean it to sound cheesy I believe this with all my heart conflict means something matters and when something matters that means if we work through conflict together in the right way it can actually bring us closer together on the other side of conflict than before now that takes two dance partners to both be dancing towards the same goal right and you may not have a willing dance partner with your mom with your mother-in-law but I all you can control is was I a person who honored my father and mother if that's part of your value system and what was I a person of integrity was like clear clear as kind was I very clear about next step um did I put a date on things in 60 days you're gonna move in with brother right did you and your and her other did her and her other sibling talk to brother about how they'll be supportive like like were was I the man and your wife was she the woman the daughter the son-in-law that we were the best versions of ourself in the middle of a hard thing because that's what you can control yeah yeah we've had that conversation essentially because they again just like you said that no matter how these things shake out there's gonna be guilt we're gonna feel we're gonna feel bad about how it goes even if it won't goes perfectly and knowing her situation she will you know not necessarily be smiling and grateful of course of course and again I want to I I just again I had I've mentioned this several times on the show I I had my it was a great learning opportunity for me talking with Becky Kennedy Dr. Kennedy from New York uh she's a psychologist who works with with children and their families she reframed guilt for me in a really powerful way and like let me ask you this do you do you think is it a violation of your values for you and your wife and your four kids to be especially you and your wife to determine the trajectory of your immediate family is that a violation of your values no not at all okay is it a violation of your values to have supported a man who was dying of cancer and his wife for the better part of a decade not at all okay so is it a violation of your values to be honest and integrous and say this arrange this living arrangement has come to an end and here's what how we're gonna love you through it and here's how we're gonna support you through it and here's the end date is that a violation of your values no okay so I see it guilt is an important really valuable emotion that we feel when we violate our own values and so it's a good thing but my guess is what you're gonna be feeling is not guilt you're gonna be trying to feel her emotions her anger her rage her embarrassment her whatever and you're gonna try to manage that inside your own chest inside your own marriage mm-hmm that's not guilt that's you trying to take somebody else's emotions and juggle them along with your own and your marriage and your four boys that you're raising to and so understanding if we can't I cannot manage her emotions and feelings and if we can step step back a little bit further I can even understand that why she would be upset I can understand why she would feel like she's being thrown out right she's being abandoned I get that I get I get that you you could come to that conclusion I disagree with you but I can I can get that and so I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be upset with you for having big feelings but I'm not gonna manage them either because I can't I can't I can't manage them for you I think that's the key I think you've you've hit on exactly the key is that we the entire time we've been here we've been doing exactly that trying to manage her emotions and her experience and it's yeah it's done no good it stresses us out right because in a perfect world a year after her husband has passed away you've added two three four kids to a situation she would say hey y'all need way more space I'm gonna move into this one room and I want to be one thing and one thing only I want to be grandma I want to be the cool grandma down in the basement that just spoils your four boys rotten yeah and and unfortunately you didn't get that no you got somebody who wants to continue to be the overlord of a household that's no longer her household you know and that's hard because it could be different and continuing to hold on to it it should be or it could be man that makes that makes doing the next right thing really hard yeah yeah and so sit down with your wife and y'all map it out who do we want to be in this exchange what does integrity look like what is honoring our marriage first which is your both both of y'all's first priority and what is honoring and loving this woman your mom my mother-in-law what does that look like and then clear as kind and then how do we continue to check in with each other how can i love you when you just when she's not going to want your wife's not going to want to get out of bed because she feels bad so guilty and bad right how does she love you when you find yourself getting snippy because you see this woman talking to your wife in a way that enrages you when you find out she's been whispering to your boys can you believe your mom and dad are throwing me out like right all that stuff that's going to happen man have you been listening inside my house no i just i've had this conversation too many times um and so you you and your wife pre-planning how can we love each other because this is going to get messy yeah and then what does staying firm look like and i think all of this quite honestly starts with y'all two getting away maybe even for a half day and just mapping it out and in that next phone call quite honestly the next conversation is with her brother and seeing if that's an option and he may be so overjoyed yes mom's gonna move in with me and we're gonna that might be amazing and and quite honestly uh an an easier off ramp it may say no i like living by myself i've got my routines i've got my situation here and then it's going to get messier because she's going to find herself by herself in an apartment somewhere so yeah you got a hard conversation to have have you build confidence by doing the thing not thinking about the thing and so if you look back and say i was i was not only was i not taught how to do conflict well in an honoring way but i was taught that conflict will get your teeth knocked out the only way to begin to practice and learn it is to do it and manage yourself the best you can and sometimes that might mean you know what mother-in-law i'm going to stop this conversation right now we're going to pick it up tomorrow because i can't have you talking to me like that i can't have you talking to my wife like that and so we're going to back up and and we're going to pick this up tomorrow we're going to treat each other with dignity and respect in this conversation i can't have you talking to my boys and telling them that their mother and father are bad people and so we're going to stop this conversation i'm not to go downstairs um and we'll circle back tomorrow that's just you taking ownership of your emotions and what you can control and the only way to do that is to do it is to practice it and don't be afraid to say on a follow-up hey get last night when we talked things got heated and i said some things in the wrong way and so i'd like to i'd like a do-over i'd like to say it in a different way and that's you remaining emotionally mature that's you remaining in control yeah i said this the wrong way i want to say it the right way um i messed this up here's what i meant to say and so i'm gonna ask for your apology and i'm gonna move on and again best of luck to you brother you got a hard conversation for everybody listening managing loving honoring walking alongside aging parents is hard hard hard heartbreakingly hard and whatever conversations you're putting off you will have them one day the longer you put them off the more they grow and metastasize and get gnarly and they get they grow tentacles and all sorts of other relationships and experiences the earlier you can have direct conversations in a loving respectful way the better when we come back a woman asks how to navigate time with her boyfriend without interfering with his relationship with his daughter we'll be right back if you hate traveling for the holidays because your sleep gets absolutely wrecked because you're sleeping on some random family member's couch or on the floor on some random family member's couch or on the floor on some random family member's couch or on some homemade 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now through december 6th you can get up to 30 off your mattress purchase so really the only problem you and i are going to have this holiday season is getting people to leave after they've had a few nights sleeping on helix mattresses with helix better sleep starts right now go to helixsleep.com slash deloney to take the sleep quiz or click the link in the description all right let's go out to the 512 austin texas and talk to roxanne what's up roxanne hi how are you doing great how are you i am all right i'm all right what's up uh not much um i just had a question about how to um deal with my boyfriend and his overbearing um ex and daughter um it seems like every time that we go out or do something with just the two of us or um me him and my son that he's answering a phone call from either the ex or text messages or phone calls from the daughter and it almost feels like they're doing it on purpose and i've already tried explaining to him um how you know it's i don't feel like it's fair that he's already giving them this much attention being i um you know and i feel like it's an unhealthy relationship to have with his ex um especially with what she did to him but um they're pretty much best friends and they know things about us that they're not supposed to know um they're calling at all times when we're together and it it just it ruins the mood and and i don't know how to navigate all this or communicate this to him it's like it's not sinking in how long have y'all been together uh eight months eight months how long has he been divorced um they've been separated um for the entire life you just cut out on me how long have you been divorced how long has he been divorced he he was never married okay okay so but they've been apart for um according to him 14 years which is how old his daughter is okay okay um you're not gonna like my answer okay and i'm saying this with as much love as i can um behavior is a language right he's being very clear with you my relationship with my daughter comes first my co-parenting relationship with her mother comes second and everything else comes third and there's a period at the end of that sentence yeah that's what i was hoping not to hear i know i know and you have to look in the mirror and say he's a great guy i love him i saw a future for us together i might still see a future for us together but he's being very clear about where i will come on the like on the priorities ladder moving forward he's demonstrating over and over again in real time here's what matters and in what order and i know that's heart i gets breaking my heart to say it like that to you i can't imagine how heartbreaking it is to hear it's just the confirmation is just i know it's there it's just to hear it out loud from somebody else's i know you felt this for six months though right yeah and and i'll i'll give him this i think i think in this relationship your son comes first to you and his daughter comes first to him and coming first doesn't mean boundaryless coming first doesn't mean i tell you all my secrets 14 year old like coming first doesn't mean i divulge my new relationship like intimacies and intricacies to a 14 year old and you not to your son but coming first means like her health and well-being is important is number one and i think that's right and i think it's right for your son to be your number one um but i can't imagine you feeling like i'm you're playing second fiddle to an ex he's been supposedly been apart from for a decade and a half what you don't get a vote on is whether you think what she did was super wrong and that that it merits 15 years later them not talking or being a communicator like you can have your opinions on that but he doesn't seem to care what your opinion is on that okay so the question for you is are are you able to say i will take i'm happy to have my my third place seat right or here's what i would like to be second place i know you have responsibility to your daughter i have responsibility to my son i get that um but here's what i'm asking for and and not in a complaining way or a whiny way or a nagging way but here's what i think i'm asking for is i'm worth i'm worth when we go out you don't take calls from your ex when we go out your daughter doesn't even know we went out because she's with her staying with her mom right now i'm worth you not telling all of our relational secrets to your ex i'm worth you putting your phone away and being present and also um i understand that when you have custody when your daughter's with you that that's sacred precious time i get that yeah i've never i've always been encouraged him to spend more time with his daughter. Like when she's here, I don't mind stepping back and, you know, them hanging out or going out to eat or doing a daddy-daughter date or whatever it is. So I have no interest in trying to break them up or anything. I just, the little time that I get with him, the two hours that I get to spend, I would like just uninterrupted call. I mean, uninterrupted date. Sorry. I will tell you, I think it's bizarre that he tells his ex-girlfriend from 15 years ago his dating schedule. Yeah, I do too. Like, I don't understand. I don't, I can't seem to comprehend that relationship. Like he, he told her all of my insecurities about this trip that we're supposed to go in the future. And let me, let me just stop you right there. That's insane. It's madness. Yeah. That is, that is wildly disrespectful to you. So you're, you're not out to lunch on that. You can't comprehend an incomprehensible thing. Like you're trying to solve a math problem with missing numbers and letters. Like it's not a solvable problem. What he did was wrong. His ex has no business knowing any of your personal situation, any of your personal details, other than maybe his ex wants to know him. And that's going to be around my daughter. That's fair. Yeah, I agree. But not all of her personal insecurities and her fears and her annoyance. Like, no, dude. That's, I mean, good grief, man. I've got, I've got buddies that like would go to war for me that I've known for 30 and 40 years. I don't tell them what my wife's insecurities are. That's ours. Right. It's my wife's story to tell, not mine. Much less to an ex-girlfriend of mine from however many long, I, yeah. And it sounds like you really like this guy, huh? I do. I, I saw, I saw a future. Yeah. And, and the, the hard part of this is one, losing him as a relationship, but honestly, the heartbreak, right, is you're losing this imagined future you might've had. Oh yeah. Yeah. And how old are you? I'm 38. Yeah. And it's also, and I'm only saying this because I have this conversation more times on the phone when people get ahold of my cell number than I care to admit. There's also this clock ticking in your mind, right? Yeah. Yeah. That and, you know, the dating scene isn't great, so. What are you talking about? It's not, not great. It's, it's horrible. It's terrible. Yeah. It's terrible. So I was hoping never to get back in there. Right. Ever, but. Understood. Maybe I won't. Maybe you won't, but I, I'll say two paradoxical things. You're worth more than this. And also I'll say, I wish nothing more for you than somebody who sees your value, who's madly in love with you. Who may have responsibilities to their kid. I actually, I actually find that honorable. But somebody that will put you above any exes, any whatever. And there's ways to keep very professional, very professionals, probably not the right word, but very above board friend relationships with exes when we're co-parenting. I think that's great and wise and actually pretty awesome. But if it's kind of this dot, dot, dot. It's still been there since they broke up a long time ago. And she's still his confidant and she's still where he goes with his deep, dark secrets. And she's still who he spills the tea to about his new girlfriend. And you're worth more than that. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news today. And here's the thing. I won't get mad at you if you exhale and say, I'll, I'll sell for third place for a season. You get to do that. I would, if you were my sister, if you were my, my close friend, I would want more for you than that. But just know I am opting into this situation and I'm going to, I know that the two hours of once a week or whatever he allows me to have with him is going to be compromised time. Like I'm going to know that going in, I'm going to stop hoping and dreaming. It's going to be different because I know it's not going to, he's been very clear with his actions, what his priorities are. Sorry, Roxanne. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. Here's something I've learned over the years, sitting with young men who are struggling with trauma, addiction, mental health challenges, or other destructive behaviors. One 50 minute session a week might not be enough to turn things around and to help facilitate major change. This is where capstone wellness can help to make real progress and practice actually living differently. Young men need a totally new environment. Capstone treatment center is a long-term residential program for struggling young men, ages 14 to 28. It's a structured environment with trained licensed clinicians and healing at capstone. Isn't something that just happens in a room. It's woven into every part of every day. And it's not what you would call a traditional sit around and talk program. It's action oriented. They let young men practice the weight of responsibility and care. One way they do this. And I love this. Every young man. Is paired with the Labrador retriever puppy being responsible for something that needs you and loves you unconditionally every day is healing as a daily practice. And when the young man graduates, the dog goes home with him and his family. Listen, I trust capstone. If my own son needed this level of care, capstone would be my first call. Learn more at capstone wellness.com slash Deloney. That's capstone wellness.com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Kelly wants to read me the internet. Internets. You found something on the socials. What is it? Yes, I'm going to read you all of the internets. So sit back. Sit back, everybody. Okay, this is a little bit long. So just hang tight. But this is something that somebody posted on a site that I follow. A good news site that I thought was talks about a lot of things that we talk about with community and the importance of it. All right. My neighbor knocked on my door at 641 morning. I barely knew her. We lived across the hall from each other for three years and mostly exchanged polite smiles. She was standing there in her pajamas. She asked, can you sit with my daughter for 20 minutes? I must have looked confused because she immediately started apologizing. My babysitter canceled. My shift starts at seven. My sister is coming, but she's stuck in traffic. I know this is incredibly inappropriate behind her. Her little girl was sitting on the floor, putting her shoes on. So I said, of course, her daughter came into the apartment carrying a tiny backpack and a stuffed rabbit. She sat at my kitchen table and I made toast. Twenty three minutes later, her aunt arrived that evening. My neighbor knocked on my door again. This is a story. This time she was holding flowers. I don't know how to thank you. After that, something changed. Not dramatically. We still weren't best friends, but sometimes she borrows milk. Sometimes I collect a package for her. Once when I had the flu, she left soup outside my door. We became the kind of neighbors people used to have. Then one night I understood why that mattered. It was almost midnight when my phone rang. My dad had been taken to the hospital. I grabbed my coat, purse, keys and ran downstairs. Halfway to the car, I realized my dog was upstairs and I had no idea how long I was going to be there. I would be gone, and everyone I normally called lived miles away. So I stood in the parking lot, wondering what to do. Then I looked up at her apartment and noticed her light was still on. I hated the idea of bothering her that late, but I knocked anyway, and she opened the door immediately. I started explaining everything too quickly. She interrupted me and said, "Just give me your key." And I said, "I might be gone all night," and she nodded and said, "I know. He just needs medication with his food, so text me the instructions. I'm so sorry." She looked out directly at me and said, "Why are you running?" I started apologizing, and then she said, "This is what neighbors are supposed to be for." I got home the following afternoon exhausted. My dog had been fed and walked. There was fresh water in his bowl. On my kitchen counter was a container of pasta and a note, "Eat something before you sleep." I stood there reading those six words longer than I should have. We spend so much of adulthood trying not to need anyone. We order everything to our doors. We solve problems ourselves. We apologize whenever we have to ask for help. We can live three meters away from someone. I don't think they're in America. Three meters away from someone. Could be in New York. Meters? I don't even know how long. How long is a meter? She says they live three meters away from someone. Do you know how long a meter is? Yes. So, how long? A meter. What? Anywho. We can live three meters away from another human without. Across from another human. Across from another human being for years and know absolutely nothing about them, and somehow we call this independence. Maybe community doesn't begin with an enormous gesture. Maybe it begins with holding someone's spare key, watching their child for 20 minutes, bringing their package inside, leaving soup outside their door. Tiny moments saying, "If life gets difficult, you don't have to handle every part of it alone." Now, whenever someone new moves into our building, I introduce myself, not because we need to become friends, but because everyone deserves at least one nearby door they can knock on when life falls apart. Sometimes the person who saves your terrible day isn't family. Sometimes it isn't even family. your oldest friend sometimes it's simply the person across the hall love that love it i'll even comment after that that's just beautiful yes it's the head nods it's the hey i'm here it's the hey could you help me and by the way that woman asking knocking on the door in a panic she had to get to work will you watch my daughter for 20 minutes you were not only not an inconvenience but you gave your neighbor a purpose that morning and you gave her a reason to brighten up a little bit and asking for help is often a great gift so beautiful love it thanks for sharing that kelly now get off the internet love you guys bye