Caller: “My Husband Can’t Accept My Boundaries”

my husband is an alcoholic we've been married for 10 years and around year three he started drinking and it quickly progressed he's not violent or abusive just very absent and a little rude which leads me to clean up every mess financial emotional physical and be a married single mom what up what's going on this is john with the dr john deloney show thanks for being here i hope wherever you find yourself today's going pretty smooth and pretty smooth this would be a win for all of us these days and so i hope wherever you happen to be wherever this show's popping up in your earphones or in your car or somewhere in your house wherever you happen to be i hope things are going well for you this show is about your mental and emotional health your relationships i'd sit down with real people and talk about real things going on in their lives and we try to get to the next right step if you want to be on the show i would love to have you click the link in the show notes and it will send you right over and if you have an apple this is gonna say an apple phone some call it an iphone right if you're hip with it or whatever um my wife tells me i was born in the wrong century but if you have an apple device i would love for you to consider going over to the app store and getting the together app i i'm biased but i think it's the greatest marriage app on the planet and we are constantly making um some pretty amazing improvements to it but here's the deal here's what it is it's micro habits for your marriage it's an action plan for you and your spouse you can do it in one player mode or two player mode and your spouse can join for no extra cost i i in the cost of the thing is so low anyway i just want people using it that's the main goal but it's micro habits it's a small action step you can take every day plus we've added new learning tracks new frameworks in there for dealing with conflict with communication we've added so much more cool stuff and there's a ton left to come but it is pretty extraordinary and the feedback we've received from thousands of people all over is that this thing is working well so go over to the app store and check it out and you android folks we're coming for you we're coming for you let's go out to santa barbara california and talk to danielle hey danielle what's going on hi there how are you awesome how are you i'm okay what's going on so i i wrote down my question so i could get this out coherently and give you a little background if that's okay this show is probably not the place for coherence because i don't usually make two sentences work together but i would you know what it would be good if one of us was coherent so yes that's perfect go for it whatever you feel comfortable got it uh my husband is an alcoholic we've been married for 10 years and around year three he started drinking and it quickly progressed i know why he drinks it's a coping mechanism for severe childhood trauma and stress today he's not violent or abusive just very absent and a little rude which leads me to clean up every mess financial emotional physical and be a married single mom it's our biggest marriage battle and i really believe all this and all ones can stem from it too about three weeks ago i laid out an ultimatum stop drinking or i'm leaving his response was i'll think about it that response itself of course was a gut punch the next night i came home to him having a case of beer and he explained to me that he needed one last hoorah and then he quit night two he's still drinking but asked for time to wean off as he knows the dangers of alcohol withdrawal we don't have health insurance and i cannot afford a medical detox so i agreed to a one-month plan of weaning we're living like roommates any conversation turns into a fight and him walking away from me i used your verbiage of laying out what i need to feel love but i see no effort and the drinking doesn't seem to be flowing how do i get through to him that i don't want to leave but my kids and i need a sober present dad and he's going to have to start having some hard conversations with me yeah i'm so sorry oh man so if he was to go to aa one of the first things they one of the first first parts of that process is admitting that you're powerless mm-hmm and for you as a spouse this is heartbreaking but you too have to admit you're powerless yes you can't change him well i've tried i know i know you have and i would even go as far to say um you know what i don't know if this is helpful um i'll say this take it with a grain of salt okay it's not every situation but it's it's enough of them over the years that i've sat with people um his not getting sober instantly for you is probably not about you okay and i know it's it feels very personal and the way you framed it made it very personal and i would have done the exact same thing okay but my gut tells me that it's less about you and more about the sheer terror of the true and honest feelings that will come rushing like a tsunami through him the moment he kicks his crutch out that's fair and probably very true and so i only tell you that not to minimize it in any shape form or fashion but to depersonalize it in a way that hopefully frees you to do the next right thing for you and your family and your family and your family and your family and your family and your family and your family and you and your kids you and your kids because i don't know many if any successful folks in recovery that quote unquote got sober for their that quote unquote got sober for their that quote unquote got sober for their kids or got sober for their wife sometimes that's the only tiny dull light sometimes that's the only tiny dull light sometimes that's the only tiny dull light they can see through the haze that is they can see through the haze that is they can see through the haze that is their life their life their life and that's what they say initially but my and that's what they say initially but my and that's what they say initially but my experience has been sitting with folks experience has been sitting with folks and recovery it only works when you decide I'm worth being clean it's just too hard to do it for somebody else for too long yeah and you're powerless to get him to to that realization so so so I just um I just referenced this book on a on another show um a buddy of mine Dr. Henry Cloud he's kind of an OG um he's somebody I looked up to before I had this this podcasting thing um he wrote a book called Necessary Endings and he wrote a book called Necessary Endings and he wrote a book called Necessary Endings and it's it's oriented towards a business audience how do you know when to keep an employee or let them go or to stay in a job or leave a job or close your business down or keep your business going right but it also has some really powerful powerful insights and principles for relationships of all kinds especially romantic relationships but at the end of the day so I strongly recommend you read that I used to make all my students read that book it's just it's a masterpiece but um one of the things that I think is really important is that it's not just a book it's one of the most important takeaways from that was the difference between a hope and a wish um and a hope is wrapped up in evidence is there a is there movement from a documented plan is there movement towards tomorrow being different than today that sounds like a good thing to do thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you and when when a relationship of any sort professional personal romantic when a relationship is devoid of hope tomorrow because one or both of us will refuse to go do what we need to do um when a relationship is devoid of hope that's when there's a period at the end of that sentence um um , and my challenge to you would be there are so many especially in California there are so many resources available to folks who don't think they can afford any number of programs there is a lot of financial resources but he would have to make it a a part-time or full-time job yeah you have to put in the work I gotta in in like I say he might not be able to stop drinking right now you have to put in the work I gotta in in like I say he might not be able to stop drinking right now but he can put himself in a situation where he can begin to heal and get the skills he needs to not only stop drinking but to then deal with a nightmare that's waiting for him behind that curtain. Okay. And again the heartbreaking part of this call like you can't make him do any of that. that's not what i wanted you to tell me i know you've got to be the driver in the seat that is your in the front seat of your own car and so when you made that ultimatum to him what was your and then what plan where were you going to go or where was he going to go honestly my plan is to tell him to leave and because we have two children and a home and it's not fair to uproot my kids into someone's bedroom in someone's house until i can figure life out i feel like he needs to leave if he's making the choice can you afford that house i've done a lot of things in my life that i didn't think i could i honestly know but if we ended up separating and sold the house i could afford something smaller okay so i want you to reframe this and no matter what decision you make moving forward i want you to hear me clearly okay okay the greatest gift for your kids right now is a healthy well-regulated mom and dad but they're not going to have that right now the greatest gift for them like let me let me put this way they're what what you think is stability same front yard same windows same doorknob there there is some there's some truth to that but kids can endure a lot if they are bound to regulated adults yeah right kids will anchor into things when there's not people to anchor into and so i want you to dispel with the i'm not saying y'all should leave i'm just saying if you found yourself having to leave tomorrow and y'all went and the three of you went and stayed and so how old are your kids 15 and 10 okay yeah that'd be awkward for three of y'all to live in a one bedroom in somebody's house right but yeah if y'all had to make do for a season and you did the next right thing your kids are going to anchor into you yeah okay what does your kids take on their dad um well my my 15 year old my son it's actually his stepdad um my son is from a previous marriage and they have an okay relationship um and then my daughter thinks her dad's on the moon yeah and so but i'll also do a really good job of protecting you all the chaos that's right and so part of part of doing whatever the next right thing is if you choose to leave it's weathering the opinions and insights of 10 year olds and 15 year olds yeah right yeah and we could hope and pray that your husband would be a man of character and when the kids say dad why did mom leave that he won't say because she's a terrible woman he might or he might have the courage to say your dad's real sick i didn't i didn't do my part i've known folks who struggle with alcohol who are that honest i'm not sure that would be the case but you know so it's just knowing i'm gonna be not liked by my husband i'm gonna be not liked by my kids but i'm gonna do the next right hard thing i've done hard things before and i'm gonna do this incredibly hard thing and by the way you can not do this by yourself so i'm gonna reach out to resources which is the worst asking for help right right but i'm going to because i'm worth it my kids are worth it and maybe this is the elusive rock bottom that my husband needs but i can't count on that i mean i can't do anything about it right okay well i just have to stand strong to my or what which is the hardest part yeah i mean it's it's somebody called your bluff i'll just say i need to say it out loud it is a proverbial spitting in your face to come back the next day with a 12 pack yeah so so hear me say that's disgusting and it's it's ultimately deeply deeply disrespectful yeah i felt it okay but i want you to know you're not nuts okay at least not about this yeah fair fair fair okay well i mean there's something to be said for um because i've known this exact situation somebody got an ultimatum and they left and they left and they left and they left and they left and they drank somewhere else and that was a big deal and that was a violation of the or what or the ultimatum all that well and good but deep down there was enough respect that i'm not going to bring that home to her i'm going to at least do it somewhere else yeah that's that's not the problem i mean he's already he just is alone in the garage he's already not there so it doesn't really matter where he is it's the fact that he's not there yeah and if you listen listen to this show more than 30 seconds it's full of me talking to folks who grew up in the home of somebody struggling with alcohol and it's it's a it's a nightmare it's a ghost because they're there they're right there but they're not there and kids nervous systems unspool because there's an adult that they're trying to plug in and they're trying to plug in into and that that plug i mean the electric electrical system's off there's nothing to plug into and those kids end up thinking they're the problem and man that's a that's a nightmare for them too but you've been dealing with that for so long for yourself so yeah calls on you but um pick up that book pick up dr cloud's book um necessary endings but be honest with yourself and say okay we we came up with a plan i gave a roadmap and the next day he brought him a wealth pack and the day after that he said he's going to wean himself off which has a success rate of close to zero and now he's quit weaning himself off and he's just backed away he just needed to placate you for a couple of days and then it was going to go back to the way it was i can do what i want you do what you want let's move on so you get to decide am i going to hold the line here or am i going to just accept what's this marriage is but hope requires hope requires evidence otherwise it's a wish does tomorrow have a chance to be different and better than today thanks for the call i wish i had better news or outcome for you you got a tough road ahead of you sister thanks for calling we come back a woman asks if her marriage will thrive when she's a funeral director and her fiancee is a police officer we'll be right back this summer has been a wild one for me i'm going to be right back for me i've been to eight different states visiting several states more than once i made a 40 hour round trip drive across the country and i've been camping and staying in different places all around my home state of tennessee the two constants in all this madness is number one i love traveling across the country and meeting new people and number two i love sleeping in my own bed the best sleep i get bar none is when i get home and i snuggle into my own bed and that great amazing sleep starts with my amazing beloved mattress my helix midnight luxe mattress from helix sleep helix is not just a show sponsor for me my family my friends everyone around me is starting to sleep on helix mattresses mainly because i won't shut up about how great they are even when the cameras and the lights are off helix mattresses are so extraordinary because they build mattresses just for you and how you sleep i want you to get online and take the 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everyday life and digging into a multi-day intensive experience with your spouse or your kids, or even by yourself can transform everything in your home, in your marriage and in your life. And this is why I want to tell you about Capstone Wellness and their Vine and Root program. Vine and Root is a deeper level of care. It's a three to five day therapy intensive for couples, for families and individuals who need more than once a week sessions to change their life. Whether it's trauma, addiction, marriage challenges, burnout, or anything, they will give you tools and a plan that you can leave with and apply to your everyday life. Capstone Wellness is a Christian organization, but they help people of all faiths, all backgrounds, and all experiences. They don't push anything on anybody and they follow a strict code of ethics. Vine and Root is a real investment of your time, your energy, and your money. But if you're serious about getting well, change can require serious commitment. Go to capstonewellness.com slash Deloney and click on Vine and Root to learn more. That's capstonewellness.com slash Deloney. All right, Orlando, Florida. Let's talk to Anna. Hey, Anna, what's up? Hey, Dr. John. I'm doing good. I'm excited to be talking to you today. I'm excited to talk to you. What's up? So my question is, what advice would you have for a lasting marriage between a funeral director and a cop? Oh, man. Y'all are going to be, without a doubt, the coolest couple to have at dinner parties. I know it. I look forward to those. Y'all two will be able to melt dinner parties, which will be incredible. Not a lot of people want to hear our stories, but. They don't, but they kind of also do. You know what I mean? There's a reason murder podcasts dominate the medium. Because people are like, oh, my gosh, that's awful. I want to listen to all of it. All right. Yes. Let me. Are you and your husband, do y'all. Fiancee, are y'all married yet? No. No. We've been together for about 10 months and not to get really gushy with it, but this is the best relationship that I've ever been in. Gross. Gross. He's pretty awesome. He's amazing. Very kind and attentive. Just to. Overall, great guy. Dude. So you're like thinking there's a future here. Absolutely. And when he sat me down and said he wanted to be a cop to better support our future family, I was like. Whoa, dude. For all you gentlemen listening, that's a good line right there. That's a good line. Wow. So yeah, he sounds like a. Keeper. Do y'all. And I ask this not like poking, only this is inside baseball for first responders and those who work around just the dark arts, as they say. Do y'all have like a pretty black hole sense of humor? Are y'all able to laugh together? Yes. Very much so. Tell me about it. So he actually. Go ahead. Go ahead. I interrupted you. Go ahead. Well, he actually worked with me at the funeral. That's where I met him. So we've been around the same sort of stuff together and we really cut up about just very inappropriate things together. And I say this not in jest, but it's going to sound ridiculous. Y'all two need to have a special relationship that if other people heard y'all talk, they would probably try to have y'all institutionalized, right? Love that. There's got to be a place where y'all release steam together because coming back together after these two difficult jobs will just be. It will be. Your relationship will have a layer of stress to it that others don't. And so having a sense of a. And the reason that like a dark sense of humor is important is obviously it's. Humor is just good for really dark situations anyway, if you can get there. But also it gives y'all what I would call a secret shared language inside y'all's secret world, right? Right. Nobody else gets this part of our lives but us, right? And also, I'm going to talk out of both sides of my mouth. Y'all are going to have to make a commitment to have friends who are not cops, friends who are not in the dark arts and. I keep calling it dark arts, that's an inside joke, like in the funeral industry. And you're going to have to have friends who are school teachers and accountants so that you. Otherwise, you're working with world will shrink really fast and that's a way that the bell curve of your life will shift it can make you very insulated into there is light there is joy there is laughter there is warmth there's fun out there but if the world y'all inhabit becomes one negative story after another negative story it's really quick for your default setting to shift pretty dramatically right that's really um what i'm afraid of and you know i've been struggling a lot with my own anxieties around his career move um because i know we both have our own sites that we see but i um you know just just knowing you know what what he would go through on a daily basis and um it just it just makes me nervous uh you know not that to mention too um you know the unsolicited advice um received from family friends and even my social media algorithms kind of starts that whole spiral for me like what like what tell me some advice you get i can't wait for this this ought to be great well the social media algorithms come up uh 10 reasons why you don't want to marry a first responder you know all those things um family telling us well you know why doesn't why not become an electrician or a plumber why why this career path you know um it's not good for marriages that they they often end in divorce you know things like that just delete social media you can't delete your family you just got to put up with those kind of nonsensical things but here's the truth is yeah it's a hard job the truth is there's a lot of infidelity there's a lot of infidelity a lot of jobs the truth is also that two people who decide to make a go of ride or die till they die it's not good for them it's not good for them it's not good for them till death do us part, we're going to be married and we're going to do this thing, can have an extraordinary life regardless of what you do for a living. It's going into it wide-eyed, right? And so like your concern, I'll tell you in my house, my dad was a policeman for most of my childhood. And one request my mom made when I was heading off to college was please don't go into law enforcement. And I was like, why? Because I just saw it as such an amazing service. My dad was always putting himself out there for folks. He was on the SWAT team, all this stuff. And she said, because every day he goes to work, I hold my breath till he gets home. Right. And that was, I remember going, oh, I didn't even know that happened. I didn't know she did that. Right? Now, if I'd gone into law enforcement, she would have been my biggest supporter in the world, right? But that was just her whispering to her son about to head off into the world. So your concern, your nervousness, that's real. And so own that. And then you can do one of two things. You can try to go around that angst. You can run around it. And then you can meet an accountant and you can be anxious about whether AI is going to take his job. And then you can break up with him and you can meet a lawn care guy who owns a big lawn care company. And you can be worried about rainfall. Like you can choose to do that, or you can feel that angst and run right through it and say, okay, I'm nervous. So here's what I would, here's what I want. Here's what would make me feel loved. If when you get done with a scary call, you text me one emoji, then y'all pick one, a key emoji, a googly eyed emoji. And that's just you telling me you're safe. Okay. If, um, it's part of the Deloney family lore, but my dad had like a high speed chase and it ended when a huge wreck, like a big wreck. And my dad's got all his money. So he ran to, if you hear him tell the story, your husband probably will not be in that situation. There was a lot of factors there, but, um, one of the greatest gifts that my mom still talks about to this day, and she's in her seventies was my dad went and found a pay phone and he called her first so that two police officers didn't show up at her front door and she had a heart attack. And he said, Hey, two cops are about to come to the door. I'm okay. I'm completely fine. I don't look as handsome as I did a few minutes ago, but I'm good. And I'll be home after a while. And so when they came, she already knew they were coming, right? So there's things like that, that you can speak out loud. Here's what I'm anxious about. And I'm going to put this out there and here's a way you can make me feel loved. If something ever happens, I want someone to call me and I want to hear about it from you first, if possible. And if not, I want one of your partners to call me even in violation of protocol. I want you to call me. And by the way, I've, I have made a call to a parent when the protocol, when the sergeant said you can't call that family. I have to call that family. I have to run it through this person who's got to run it through this agency. And I said, you tell your supervisor to call me. I'm calling that dad because I know that dad. And I did. And it worked out. It was all fine. Right? So, uh, and I wasn't in their chain of command anyway, but I But all I have to say is, be honest about here's the parts of this job that make me nervous. And then by the way, the truth is, he's probably got things he's nervous about your job. Right? And so putting those things on the table and then coming up with a plan together, what's the best way we can love each other through this hard job? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. I think being a police officer nowadays is one of the most noble things a person can do. It's a hard, scary job and it's even scarier when people, everyone wants you around, but everyone wants to yell and scream that they don't like you. Right. Right? Yeah. And so it might be you just turning the media off, the noise off. Yeah, probably no more police body cam videos for me. Probably wouldn't watch those at all, right? No. Because the other thing about police body cam videos is they don't show the other 97% of police body cam videos, which are pretty innocuous back and forth and then people leave. Right. The ones that make the social media accounts are the ones where something goes bananas. All right. And so we're not going to, that's what I'm talking about shifting the bell curve. If that's all you consume, that's all you talk about and all you talk about, talk to is other morticians and other police officers and other first responders, then that just becomes y'all's world. And it's a real. Easy to believe everybody's out to get everybody all the time. It's all dark. It's all bad. And it just slowly turns the light out on your life. And so y'all have to be intentional about, Hey, we got dark jobs, right? Um, we had dark jobs. Neither of us have a job. If everything works out for everybody, right? It's true. And so since our jobs are showing up in people's most difficult, most awful moments, then we have a responsibility to make sure we're in. Injecting our life intentionally with as much light as possible. We're going to have breakfast together as often as possible. We're going to, um, I just found out my buddy grant roast coffee with his wife and they like, they do it together. Um, we're going to do that. We're going to brew beer together. We're going to go to concerts together when we can. And if he shows up in uniform, he can get in for free. It'd be awesome. Right? So, but we're going to consciously be injecting life. We're going to swear off murder. We're going to swear off murder podcast. We're going to not watch whatever law and order San Francisco, Miami division slash Nevada. Look, whatever seasons up, like we're going to watch the office on rerun forever. Right? So we're going to be intentional about those things. And can I tell you one more thing? Absolutely. If in your guts, you know, not, I think, I don't know. I know I cannot be married to somebody who is in that line of work. I don't have the courage to tell him now. Right. I don't think that that's the case. I don't either, but I just want to put that out there. Yeah. Yeah. But also I don't want you to already 10 months in with a pretty amazing guy. Um, I don't want you 10 months in already beginning to silence yourself. Yeah. Cause when you have your first kid and your second kid and your third kid and your ninth kid, I don't know. Don't have, I mean, nine kids. Um, have four or five, but nine's a lot. Um, but like the silencing that will go on in the middle of your chest will just grow and grow and grow. And so let's don't start out our relationship, not saying what we want, not saying what scares us. Let's begin to practice as a couple. We do. We can put anything on the table. No pun intended. That was a good joke. That was my only mortician joke of the day. I think your marriage can be, I think your marriage can be amazing. Um, if y'all are super intentional about it. Right. Yeah. Thank you. No, I'm super excited. If you would do me the favor, a favor. And when this guy does propose, if you'll send us a, uh, like an engagement photo, that'd be awesome. I'm ready for it. But if he does it in some like creepy, weird mortician way, oh dude, tell him to not do that. Yeah. Cause I used to have flowers and sunlight and stuff like that. Like nice stuff. Actually, I don't care. Do whatever you want to. That'd be, that'd be amazing. That would be amazing. But no, I think, um, every marriage and every profession is going to have different types of challenges to it. It's not about avoiding and being anxious about those challenges. It's going right through the middle of them together and saying, okay, this is our reality. Since this is our reality, what must also be true for us to have a whole good and well life. Thank you so much for the call. The advancement of AI has made it easier than ever for scammers to get a hold of your personal information. And with technology like voice matching, scammers can now use what they know about you in ways that are almost impossible to detect. The scammers already have your home address, your kids' names, your past jobs. And listen, AI is helping them get better at using that information against you. That's where Delete.me comes in. Delete.me goes to hundreds of data broker sites that exist. Just to buy your personal information and sell it for profit without your consent. And they remove your information. And then they keep removing it month after month. They've already removed my information from thousands of sites. And they keep monitoring so my personal information isn't floating around out there everywhere for scammers to continue to grab. Listen, AI is changing the game. Delete.me makes sure you're not an easy target. Click the link in the description or go to joindeleteme.com. To get 20% off an annual plan. That's J-O-I-N. Join deleteme.com slash Deloney. All right, Providence, Rhode Island. Let's talk to Ellen. Hey, Ellen, what's up? Hi, Dr. John. Thank you for taking my call. Of course. Thanks for calling. So my 16-year-old daughter has decided to go no contact with her father, who is an alcoholic. And it's been two years. So the event, let's call it, happened two years ago when she was 14. He was coaching her softball team. She was in middle school. And they took a trip to a game. And he was completely wasted during the travel. The game made a fool of himself, embarrassed her. She was mortified. These are 12 to 14-year-old girls that were texting their parents, taking videos. I mean, the whole bit, as you can imagine. And so she was just traumatized from that whole experience. And decided to complete. Completely block her from her life. And does not want to talk to him. No contact. And I'm in the middle of, you know, trying to mediate because he feels that. Why? Why? Why? Why? He feels that I am not being a good mother by not talking. Not talking. Not talking. her into forgiving him. So let me reframe, let me completely reframe this. My concerns with you, and it sounds like I'm coming at you. Okay. And I get, I'm going to tell you my bias, my bias, I'm hyper protective of children. Okay. And, um, I'll just leave it at that. Okay. So I want you to know I'm with you on this. Okay. Okay. But I'm also, we don't, we only, we don't have a couple hours to spend together. So I'm going to be pretty direct. A 12 year old shouldn't be put in the situation of having to make that decision. What that 12 year old needs is a fierce mother or father stepping in and saying that will never happen again. She was 14 at the time. 14. So what, what I would, if I could rewind the clock when that 14 year old came through your front door, I'm assuming you and dad aren't married anymore. Correct. Okay. When that 14 year old crashed, crashes through your house into your, into your front door, bawling her eyes out, telling you about all that, that happened. That's when you grab both sides of her face and you say, you never have to see that man again. Not well, you got a big decision to make 14 year old. Right. That is way too much pressure for a 14 year old, way too much. And then we call the attorney and I don't know what your custody agreement is, but we make, we make sure there's at least a year of he's not going to be around her. He put her in incredible, uh, an incredibly unsafe situations. Right. But that 14 year old has to know both objectively and subjectively, like in her soul and watching you go to work. You don't have a decision to make here. Cause you're 14. I'm the adult. I'm making this call. And so you're being gaslit every which way to Sunday. Yeah. making you somehow begin to wonder if you're a person of character and integrity because you're not trying to force your 16-year-old to be around an incredibly unsafe man. Right. That's bananas. That's bananas. Right. I 100% agree with that. And, you know, I've taken enough abuse myself from him, you know, during the time that we were together, you know, and now he claims he's sober. But, you know, texts still come through with, like, maybe you should check what type of human being you're raising there, you know. Does he have any custody with her? No. Okay. Block him. Mm-hmm. Stop taking his calls. Because you're like somebody in recovery, but you keep a secret stash of bourbon under your sink. Right. And every night you go in and take a little sip. Stop reading those messages. If he says he's sober and he wants to be reengaged with his daughter, he can go get an attorney and prove to the courts that he's changed his life. Mm-hmm. And the courts can petition you and your attorney, for a further conversation. Right. But you got to block him. And you have to look at your daughter and say, hey, I let you down. It's my job to protect you, and I made it your choice. You don't get that choice. When you're 18, you can do what you want to. Mm-hmm. But from now on, I'm proud of you for taking the stand that I should have taken for you. And it's you and me, ride or die. And we're going to be heartbroken, because every single daughter on the planet deserves to have a dad who adores them more than life itself. And she doesn't have that. No. I mean, he claims he does. But, you know, I don't know that he does enough to show her. And, you know, he wrote her a letter saying that he was sorry for, you know, for making the wrong decision, making a bad decision at that time. But that now he, you know, it's time for her to forgive him and move on. And, you know, and I am in complete disagreement with the whole thing. I, you know, I don't think that, you know, you can just tell your daughter to just forget what she lived through, you know, the embarrassment in front of her friends. Yeah, but that, you know, that's, here's the thing. That wasn't a one-time thing. Right. That was the, that was the whipped cream on top of the whole banana split. This has been going on for her whole life, right? Yes. Yes. And she's watched her mom get abused. She watched her mom get demeaned and disrespected for all those years. Correct. And whether she remembers it, like, if she has, like, real lived experience memories or the stuff just encoded in her nervous system, she's lived it. Right. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So I'm going to ask you, please, on behalf of your daughter, behalf of yourself, on behalf of your daughter, pour all the bourbon under the sink out, block him, cut him off, be done with it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then have a talk with her. When you're 18, you get to make some grown-up decisions. Right. And that's only a couple years away. That's right. Yeah. But what that girl needs more than anything is a mom that says you and I are worth more than this. And if you've listened to the show for two seconds, you know I'm always overly so about redemption. I wish the best for this guy. I hope he goes and gets his life turned around and whatever. But I can tell you, if he was completely, like, a changed man enough to where he could enter into my daughter's life again, there would be way more humility. Right. Way more understanding. Yes. He feels entitled. Yes. He feels that because he is her dad, she needs to speak to him because he pays, you know, child support. Yeah, because the court freaking made him. Right. Not because he's some saint. Right. Right. The government had to step in and make him be partially a dad. Yeah. So don't. Don't. Yeah. That's just bull crap on a stick. Like, man, dude, I don't, I don't, I haven't gotten fired up in a while. Like, Ellen, I, you've, you've got to take the reins here. And by the way, this is going to sound even crazier. I think she should forgive him. And here's the deal. Forgiveness is for her. Right. That she's not going to carry around the burden of an abusive alcoholic father. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, and that's exactly what I told him. But that doesn't mean that forgiveness doesn't mean full access. Right. Forgiveness doesn't mean just waltz back in. Forgiveness is me looking at somebody who hurt me and saying, I'm not carrying your injustice around anymore. I'm not carrying your pain anymore. I refuse from this day forward to continue to be your victim. You victimized me once or for a long time. That ends now. I'm setting this brick down. That's forgiveness. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't mean I'm going to sign up and you get to do it again. Right. Oh, yes. And there was that too, right? Right. And so listen, you have to give her a record so that when she turns 17 and you start talking to her about, hey, in six months, in nine months, you're going to have some big choices to make. You be able to slide your phone or that you slid your phone when she was 16 and you said, I've blocked him. So he can't continue to poison her family. Yeah. And you can look at your daughter. She's 16 now. She's old enough to get this. And you can say, I miss him. I miss the, what I thought we had, but I don't miss the abuse and I don't miss the heartache. Right. Yeah. Yes. And you can say it grieves me because my dream was to have a unified family and he took that away from us. Yeah. And you're right. And you kind of can. I can tell in between the lines here that I left because of this situation. Right. I, you know, I left him many years ago because I just couldn't live with, with the lies and, you know, everything that came with the alcoholism. Right. So I, I left and she was very, I could tell that she was proud of me for doing that. Were you proud of you? Oh, yeah. Okay. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Then hold your head up high. Mm-hmm. And stop letting him back in your house. He does not come here. I'm talking, he does, sure as, sure as crap does, he comes in there on your phone line. Oh, well, yes. Comes in there on your text messages. He comes in there on your, through your mailbox. Mm-hmm. Right. A 14-year-old, she's already got enough guilt in her system about what she should or shouldn't be doing. Mm-hmm. She's already got 14 years of asking herself, what was so bad about me that he had to do that? Yeah. She doesn't also need the burden of, oh, and it's also your job to make this old man feel better about himself. Mm-hmm. That's not her job. No, you're right. Absolutely. She's a child. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're a hundred percent. Mm-hmm. I, I agree with. What you're saying. Mm-hmm. So in the same way you had the courage to stand up and protect yourself. Mm-hmm. I want you to do the same thing on her behalf now. Yes. And that means in, in some sense, you're going to take away some decisions. You're going to risk her being furious at you when she turns 19 and get some sob story from her dad that he was this amazing changed man and mom kept her away and risk, take that risk. Mm-hmm. Because right now she needs a mom that says, I'm, I'm not giving you the option. Mm-hmm. He's a man who hurts you and hurt you for years and then blamed you for not waltzing back into the fold. Yeah. Right. Thank you. That, that is, that really cleared my mind. Awesome. Yeah. So just. Yeah. So parent to parent here. Okay. Mm-hmm. This is me. Just you and I talking as like, we are as equal as they could be. Mm-hmm. Stand up for your daughter. Okay. Yes. And I know she's 16 and she's reaching for more and more autonomy. I got a 16 year old too. I totally get it, man. Mm-hmm. And it's hard for us, but it's our job to navigate that tricky balance of autonomy. And also this is unsafe. Right. And for me, I'm fortunate. What's unsafe for my son is. driving too fast or driving too late at night, what's unsafe for your daughter is her dad. Yes. And that shouldn't be that way. And I, and I, sometimes I just wish that I had made the decision sooner. Let's spend zero time and energy on that thought. Cause you can't change it. I can't. Let's max it. Cause all that does is take away from the time you have left with her. Yeah. Let's pour every ounce of energy into, we got two years left before she's off out in the world, or maybe she'll stay with you for five more. Who knows? But let's pretend it's 18. We got two years to just make sure there's no tread left on the tires of our relationship. We're going to have fun. We're going to laugh. We're going to do silly things. We're going to have breakfast together. We're going to have dinner together. And that means I'm going to have to say no to some things that she wants to do because I know that her having a rooted relationship with at least one of her parents is going to pay, is going to pay lifelong dividends for her. Yes, absolutely. Right. Game on. Yeah. Game on. All right. It's been an honor to talk to you, Ellen. Thank you so much for calling. I'm grateful for you. We'll be right back. When I'm cooking at home, chopping up vegetables, trimming a venison or T-bone steak, or when I'm feeling a little bit extra dramatic and cutting up a nice fruit tray, I want to know the knives I'm using will actually do what they're supposed to do. Cut well. This is why I bought my wife, the culinary, kitchen knives from Montana Knife Company. And it's why I use them as much as she does. Montana Knife Company knives are razor sharp right out of the box. They're balanced and they do what they're supposed to do over and over again. Their knives perfected. Montana Knife Company makes their knives right here in the United States and years of experience go into every blade. They come with a free lifetime sharpening guarantee, which I've used. I've sent them off and got all my knives right back razor sharp again. And these knives, these will still be sharp when my great grandkids are cooking with them. Head to mkc.com to see what's available right now. And one thing you should know, Montana Knife Company knives sell out fast. Sign up for email and text alerts so you can be among the first to know of new releases. That's mkc.com. All right. So I got to set the stage for everybody listening right now. Peyton is here and she is producing the show, but Kelly is sitting right behind her just straight. Judging her like she does me. She's right out from behind the camera. So you can't see her, but she's right there. I see her. Can you, can you, because people are going to think I'm making it up. Oh, she is hiding. Kara. So Peyton, be careful. At least I have this double pane glass between me and Kelly. Always. I mean, it's a great time. We're having a great time. Just keep saying it over and over and over. All right. So what's up? We got something cool happened. We do. We have Elizabeth from Saginaw, Michigan, and she wrote in, not a question, just something cool. I moved several States to marry my now husband one year ago. And along with all of the regular first year of marriage struggles, adjusting to a new place was very difficult for me. I was lonely, but found it difficult to be motivated to put down roots, partially due to the fact that we found out that we were going to move again this year. Thankfully, I started to listen to the show a few months before the move. And because of John's advice to many listeners to take ownership of their lives and choices, I decided this move was going to be, different instead of passively shutting down and retreating from the challenge. I have already joined a church group, gotten a gym membership and embrace go first and be weird by asking someone from church out for coffee in the past. I've really struggled with confidence in myself, but listening to John has helped me to both identify the problem and given me practical skills to help myself. Thank you so much. Awesome. Go first and be weird. I love it. What was her name? Elizabeth, Elizabeth, Elizabeth. You're a hero. You're a modern day hero. I'm proud of you. Good, good call. And when y'all move again, be sad and then gin it back up and let's get rocking and rolling. That's awesome. And I also have to say this Peyton, you have the most soothing voice ever. It's like an audible Xanax. It just kind of brings the room down. Kelly's voice is like an audible. What is it? Methamphetamine. It just makes the whole room. Well, just more excited. It's not a bad thing. Meth is, according to you, meth is great. So there's that, but well done Peyton. Thanks so much. I appreciate it. All right. Yay. Thanks for being with us. We'll see you next show. Love you guys. Bye.