Caller: “My Fiancé Thinks I’m a Sex Fiend”

(upbeat music) - Brought to you by my friends at Churchill Mortgage. If you're looking to buy or refinance, check them out. I've used Churchill and they are great. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com. - My friend San and I have a big mismatch in libido, kind of at a point where I'm wondering, is this just incompatibility, or do I need to take the next right step as you like to say? - Where else are you all mismatched? - Everywhere. (upbeat music) - What up? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloni Show. Talking about your mental and emotional health, your marriage, your relationships, whatever you got going on in your life. For the last, Colleen, and more than two decades, now it is a long time sitting with, hurting people, trying to figure out, what's the next right move in your life? If you want to be on this call, I would love to have, on the show, not on this call, if you want to be on this show, I'd love to have you on, click the link in the show notes where ever you're listening to this show, or watching this show, and it will send you to a form that will go right to Kelly and she will get you on the show. Let's go out to Phoenix, Arizona, and talk to Leah. What's up, Leah? - Hi Dr. John, thanks so much for kicking my call. - You got it, what's going on? - Yeah, so I had a question I've listened to you for years, but my question today is, my fiance and I have a big mismatch in libido, it's been going on for a few years now, and I'm kind of at a point where I'm wondering, is this just incompatibility, or is it something we can work through, or do I need to take the next right step, as you like to say? - Which would be what? - Exiting the relationship. - Okay, are you there? - I don't know. - Okay. - What does, before we get into the actual libido conversation, what does, where else are you all mismatched? - I knew you would ask that everywhere. - Tell me about it. - Do me favor, do me favor, do me favor, do me favor. I can feel it all in ya, okay? - Yeah. - Take a big as deep breath as you possibly can. Hold it for five, four, three, two. We're good, okay? - Yes. - All right, okay, so tell me about it. We're all sideways. - What do you want our future to look like, honestly? Values around religion. I'd love to have a family. I, you know, he's tried to get there, but he's not, he's older than me. He's 48, I'm 36, times ticking for me. And I think those are, you know, the biggest ones, obviously, I've listened to you guys for years, you know, money weren't, you know, we're pretty aligned, but I think just how we want our future to look, I'd like to find meaning in fulfillment, and I know necessarily that doesn't need to mean I need to be a mom to do that, and I can find that in other ways, but I don't feel that he and I are building anything together. - There it is, right there. How long have you been together? - Four and a half years, but we've known each other for 11 years. - For how many years have you been pouring money in a sunk, in a sunk cost fallacy? - I would say two and a half years that I'm willing to admit. - Okay. - So where you happen to be right now has nothing to do with sex, and you knew that before you called. - Yeah. I think I've been trying to convince myself that if you could at least get on the same page with that, I could feel like I'm not so alone. - Yeah. Which if you pan back, how I heard you say that is, if I can find a way to squash part of myself yet again, then I won't be alone. Yeah. - I think you're worth more than that. 'Cause there's a difference building something together requires both people to put in both hands, right? And there's compromisers negotiation. There's, I love you. So yeah, I'm not super into this movie or I wasn't super feeling like having sex tonight, but I'm every time you're safe and every time I do it, I'm never a sad that I did it. So yeah, let's do it. Like you negotiate those things over the course of a marriage. But one of you doesn't squash themselves in order to feel like I've got value enough to sit at the table. And I, with all my guts, do not take lightly the other side of this for you. The, can I just be super blunt? Is that okay? - Please, yes. - I wouldn't be this blunt this quickly if we were just, if I just met you and we were sitting down doing this in person, okay? I don't take lightly. In fact, it breaks my heart with you. The thought of you ending this and being 36 and a half years old, waking up in your home or in your apartment with that free feeling, that exhale, but also that oh God, right, that untethered feeling. That's terrifying, it's horrifying. - Yeah, and you know, I've been married once before. I know I'm gonna be just fine. I'm not necessarily worried about that piece. If I'm, if I'm like real with myself, I think it's more, you know, I thought of life with him and you know, I've poured a lot of myself into this relationship and to try to make it work. And should I just accept a new reality and find happiness with what I have versus letting it all go to try to find this thing that I think might make me happy or might be fulfilled and perhaps it's not even something that I'm ever going to find, if that makes sense. - Yeah, I mean, there's a scarcity piece of that that's always looming, right? Should I stay in this crappy job that's killing me slowly that I have to be a totally different person just to walk in the door, right? We all have to wear a uniform to work and we all have to like do those kind of things, but like this job's killing me, but there may never be another job ever, right? So I get the thought process there. It's almost never reality, but I get that sentiment, right? The pushback I'll give you is you're not aligned on the things that make you who you are. So what you're trying to do is you're trying to take part of an argument and try to make it apply to a part where it doesn't fit. Here's what I mean in plain speak. My wife and I both have shared values. We both value hospitality. We value some sort of relationship with the divine, which by the way, we don't believe the same stuff most of the time. We value not only by any money, which means we value freedom. We value curiosity and artistic expression. And she likes to go to bed. She needs to go to bed quite honestly, biologically. She's got to bed at about nine o'clock, 8.30. That's right when I like to wake up from a nap and spend the next six hours running around town. And so because I'm anchored into somebody that we have the same, we both wanted kids, we both wanted a bunch of kids, we both wanted a family. Like we had those same anchor points. And so a lot of nights I don't go out. I stay at home. And I have to get a full night of sleep and feel great the next day. Woulda, right, right, whatever. And last night, this is a big deal for us. People might roll their eyes at this. She stayed up till 11 o'clock with me. Yesterday was a rough day for me. And I was like, you know what I really want? I want to watch a couple of dumb shows and just stay up too late. And she's like, I'm in. And so when it comes to, should I just give up this part of my life? or for that part of my life. Yeah, and the small stuff and the trivial stuff. And sometimes, and yeah, of course, that's part of being in a relationship with somebody. But, man, I would never recommend somebody give up things that truly deeply matter to them. And I can hear you already using cultural language to try to talk you out of the thing that you want the most, which is a family. Yeah. Freya India, she's a writer. She works with Jonathan Heighten his team. She's a really brilliant thinker. She comes at things in a different way. But she wrote an essay a few months ago that just stopped me on my tracks. And essentially, she was talking about our culture has said, the only thing you can be committed to is yourself. And if you are committed to having a family, if you're committed to a partner, if you're committed to a job, people call you stupid. The only thing you should be committed to is having multiple options. The only thing you should be committed to is, but you get what I'm saying. So, I want you to anchor into this, be willing to risk the grief of it not happening to say, I really want a family. I want to be a mom. And I want a writer, die husband, who's a great husband to. And if you say it out loud and you etch it into stone, then there's a risk on the other side, but it doesn't come true. And I'm going to be fully, I'm going to be engulfed in grief there. But I don't want to hedge that future might not happen by just slowly suffocating my way along the way in the present. You get what I'm saying? - Yeah. - So, you sound like you're pretty thoughtful and you're pretty smart. In fact, you sound real smart. I play smart on the internet, but I can always tell when somebody's smarter than me. And you are. What is trapped you here? Because you let me put this away. You sound like somebody who makes very confident decisions in your day and in day out life. And almost you're as perplexed by your decision in this situation as I am. Is that ring true or no? - Yes, 100%. I think part of it is my mid-20s when I met him, we used to work together. I was madly in love with him. He was, you know, in his late 30s at that time. He wanted nothing to do with me. As far as relational, but we did have a hookup relationship that went on for about two years and then when I turned 20, I realized he wasn't going to give me what I wanted and I ended it. And then that's when I found my first husband and that married and that ended very quickly. And I think it's the, I think it's the 25-year-old me that had this dream of the life that I saw with him that I thought I finally was going to have. And I don't know, I think I'm still holding on that part of me saying, you're the one who really wanted this with him. Now you have him and you're still unhappy. - But you don't have him. You don't have him. - You have that. I feel like I give this recommendation all the time. I want you when we get off, not right when we get off, but sometime soon I want you to write 25-year-old you a letter, a handwritten letter. And let that grow off the hook. - Okay. - Because her shadow is cast over the course of your life. - Yeah. - The free, fun, beautiful, smart, met this older guy who's kind of like seen the world and he's exciting and he's just dangling carrots out there but can't quite, like, man that's 25, right? - Yeah. - And here you are at 36, still chasing that smoke and that's all it is, it's smoke. - 100%. - Is this guy lied to you? Is he changed his story on you? Has he promised you one thing and then given you another? Has he been pretty consistent since you were young? Is this guy who I am, man? - Yeah. He's definitely been pretty consistent. I think that when we reconnected about five years ago, he was very apologetic and said that he wants to get this like a real go. And, but he was always pretty upfront that he was not looking have a family and right out of my divorce, I wasn't either. But I think, you know, I think how women are naturally wired. You are with a guy and he truly is very sweet to me. Very thoughtful. He's not so like a whole, and I can't if I can swear. But all the things my ex-husband wasn't, he is. And you know, that's always kind of the mistake we make is you get out of one relationship. You were star for one thing. And the next guy's got it and you forget about everything else that matters. But about two years ago, I came to me and I said, things have changed for me. Like I don't see my life without a family. And it's because of you. Like I think you'd be a wonderful father and you're the kind of person I would want to raise a family with. And he said he needed some time to get there. And I do believe that he genuinely has been trying to. He's typically not the kind of person to say one thing and then behind my back, you know, thinking there's no way I'm going to get there. But I just don't think he can get there. And I think I've been waiting too long. Let's do a weird exercise. If you had to, and this might be hard, if there was a Venn diagram of your husband, your ex, and this guy, where do they overlap in the middle? Very much like not a not a go getter in their personal life. If that makes sense. Like at work, he's incredibly successful. Your ex will say my ex at work was honestly the same at work as outside of her, not a go getter. I was always one driving everything like we need to get out of debt. We need to do this. I want a family like, you know, it was always me. And I do see that with him too. If I'm not the one bringing things up, if I'm not one pushing for things, he's very happy to just go to work, come home, watch roll cup, school X golf, and do that every day. Okay, so is it that you strangely married or strangely dating? The exact same guy just with different clothes in a different world? Yes. Okay. That light bulb should resonate deeply with you. It does. And I know that sucks. Yeah. And the only, I feel like the only thing useful I could tell you right now is the temptation would be to look back on the last five years and say you wasted them. I don't think you did. If at 36, your eyes are opened and you can see the world as it truly is. Like you unplug yourself from the matrix and you're like, oh, this is this is a person that I'm drawn to. Maybe it's how my dad was. Maybe it's how my mom was. Maybe it's like it's the natural iteration of the energy I bring to a relationship. I can see now. And I can also see that this is not what I want moving forward. So I'm going to have to practice relationship in a different way. And it's going to, it might feel uncomfortable at first. It might even feel not attractive at first. But there's something else I'm looking for, which is XYZ. If you can look back at 36 and say my eyes are open. I wish 25 year old me I got it. But not many of us were thinking of their head straight when we were 25, right? Right. I can't tell you what to do next. I can tell you I think you're worth living a whole life where somebody's aligned with you in their values and they are putting as much of themself on the table as you are. Yeah. I think you're worth that. Thank you. And strangely, I think, I mean, not strangely, I think he's worth that too. I think he's been pretty clear. Yeah. And that sounds like it stinks from both of you. Indeed. And also, I think part of being in a relationship, especially long term, is sometimes people's values change. And part of the relationship is navigating those changes together. I think culture would say it's just over, right? It's run its course or whatever stupid line we get from Hollywood. But I think part of changing together is, hey, I initially didn't want kids. I was fully aligned with you over the last two years. Like the way you said that was so poetic, it was beautiful. Watching you makes me want to change my life with you. Like you having the courage to say that in that way, it's amazing. And part of being in a marriage is being like, okay, the person I'm with is now different. I gotta get to know them. I've got to get to know myself, I've got to reimagine our world together. And the whole thing is we're doing this thing together. Yeah, I think I've just felt very alone for a long time. Yeah, probably for a long, long, long time. Not just two and a half years, probably for a long, long time, right? Yes. Yeah. You're worth not being alone anymore. Thanks so much. Thanks for the call. I wish I had some, I wish I could like, then like throw fireworks or confetti or something. This is one of those hard, truth calls. Thanks for being honest and for being brave. Appreciate you calling. I think your bravery is going to help a lot of people because I hear this, I have this conversation behind closed doors a lot. Thank you so much for the call. All right. Come back. A man asks how to convince his dad he's been scammed by an online romance without pushing him away. We'll be right back. Hey, what could you accomplish in three months in 90 days? Could you get in shape? Could you lose weight? Could you change your entire marriage? Could you just put down your phone and start connecting with your kids and play some games and change your relationship with them? Yes. You can do all of that in 90 days. You can do so much in 90 days. And that's why I want you to try Hallow for free for 90 days. Hallow is the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world and it's one of the most important things I do to start every day of my life. Anchoring myself in faith helps me slow down and prioritize what actually matters before the world loses its mind. Hallow will give you 90 days for free to do the same, helping you build a habit of reflection, a habit of slowing down and a habit of prayer. 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So, my father is in his 60s and for about three years, he believes that he's been in an online romance, online relationship with a model in their 20s. And, uh, oh, no, bro, this is happening all over the country. Yeah, his rough. How much is he in financially? He won't disclose that. I guarantee you. A lot. Yeah. Three years is a long time for them to hang on. I mean, they're getting paid handsomely. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, dude, I'm so sorry. I appreciate it. Never, never met this person. Obviously, face to face. No, not at all. Yeah, he divorced my mother after 43 years over it, um, over this new relationship that he thinks he has. Oh, he got divorced over an, oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. So now, there's a super sunk cost fallacy. Now this thing has to work, because he blew his whole life up for it too. Yeah. This isn't just like a lonely 70 year old who's like, whose heartstrings are getting tugged. This is a guy who blew his whole life to some of the reins for something. And this, so this has to be right. Yeah. And, um, getting him to talk about it is, is pulling teeth. I mean, for the first year, he, he wouldn't talk about it. I knew that something was going on and he just would say, hey, I'm not ready to talk about that yet. So I established with him, hey, I'm not, you know, I don't want to speak to you until you're ready to be honest and talk about things with me. Um, finally got him to talk about it last year. And I, I approached it with curiosity, let him tell me all about this relationship. And afterwards, I said, I said, data, I think that you're being scammed out of your money. I don't think that this person is real and tried to walk through that with him. Um, he said, well, let me, you know, let me think about that. And, and then every time after that, I tried to approach the subject, he just, you know, put, put a barrier up and said, no, I'm not willing to talk about this with you anymore. Um, he, he blocked my number, cut me off on social media, that type of stuff. And so my mother's sister is, lives in the same area as he and we're both aligned on, on what's going on. But it's just incredibly hard. And I, I've been talking to my therapist for over a year about this. And I recognize like how much I can't control around this situation, but it's still hard every single day, feeling like, like someone should be able to save this situation, should be able to rescue this, you know, person or whatever. So is, y'all are not in contact at all with each other anymore? He's cut you off. We have been in contact over the last couple of months, um, primarily just because I'm willing to not, uh, talk about the subject anymore, right? So. And that was it. Yeah. What is, um, this is like a strange question. What's his financial position? Is he well off or is he going to be homeless at the end of this deal? Yeah, he's not, he's not well off. Yeah, like my family, my folks are public school teachers, um, yeah, so, uh, that's what it is. So I, I don't have a great answer for you. Your therapist has given you a great therapy answer in control, which you can control. Right. Um, and it's hard, like that's the reality. And it's hard when you're watching a slow moving train wreck and you know how this ends. It ends with him either in a homeless shelter or living with you, right? Or maybe your sister. Right? That's how this ends. You know that. You know how the story wraps up. And not only that, it will be a shamed shell of a, of a, of the man you used to know as your dad. Right. So you can see that coming. So I get the control. You can control. That's the right therapeutic answer. I get it. And I'm going to tell you what I would do in my life, okay? This is one of those moments I would get on an airplane with some, the statistics that show the billions of dollars that these online scam romances are causing. And I would put it in front of him and say, I know you're a smart man. And I also know you're heartbroken and I'm watching my dad go away. And here's why I would do that. I would need to look myself in the mirror and know I went and climbed into the ring and took the biggest swing I could. We're not talking over social media. We're not talking over phone. We're not talking over text. I flew to your house and sat in your living room because I love you that much. I almost think of it like a, like a, like a, like a addiction intervention. Exactly. Yeah. I'm willing to burn our relationship to the ground in order to save your life. Yeah. I have. Yeah. I have felt that way. The first time I got him to talk to me about it, I felt that way. I felt like this is it. You know, like I felt like it very much like an intervention and I absolutely agree with you. That's how I feel every single day. So if you may even know 99.99% chance he's going to get out of my house. But here's the question I always ask myself in these, these, these basically winless situations. What kind of man do I want to show up as in this moment? Right. Yesterday, I was driving home from the office and I was driving, we went through a neighborhood and there's just kind of a janky turn and I was driving my truck through there. I had a green light. Well, this older guy who was driving, who I instantly made up a million stories about him. He. wasn't paying attention and he laid on the horn on me and I just had a rough day yesterday and dude I was like old John like back in my 20s I almost came unglued and it was this weird like I started slow down like I'm gonna back my car like it was like old school John and it was that quick question who you gonna be right now and you gripped the wheel a little tighter then you let go and you start on home and so like the question I would ask you is the man the story that you tell yourself about the man you are is that a guy that would go down swinging for those he loves probably yes or you wouldn't be calling me right yeah and so what can I do in that moment I'm gonna walk and knock on your door and say I love you enough to say I'm scared for you and if he says get out I don't love you say okay when this thing goes up falls apart mean sister have already talked you can live with one I go ahead and tell him we already know the plan and that may be that will be the oh I'm gonna end up living in my son's basement because I'll have nowhere to go but at the end of the day you're I mean the the truth about what your therapist told you's right yeah it's I cannot tell you how many calls I've taken on the ramps show the other show that I that I co-host of kids just watching their parents get scammed out of just untold millions and billions of dollars and they're just having to watch it happen and unless there is you know unless they are incompetent and a judge will take away their civil rights you just got to watch it happen and it's it's it's one of those gross heartbreaking things I mean I guess if you could find out what her this this fake person's contact info you could turn over the authorities maybe they could I don't know about who knows man yeah well I appreciate I'm just telling you that's is one of the weird situations I'm just telling you what I would do if it was me and I'm not saying it's right or wrong I'm just telling you my impulse would be I'm gonna knock on your door yeah yeah that's that's that's always been my impulse and that's why we haven't spoken you know a lot over the last couple years because I've been the person who have said we got to base this we got to talk about this yeah and my fear for your dad is like these these fake online romances have a is this person's not in the States are they no yeah of course so they these have an arc to them and the fact that it's gone on for three years tells me it makes me concerned he signed his pension over it makes me concerned he's taken out life insurance policies it's made me because they're not gonna hang around for three years on social security and a and a and a pittance of a you know public school teachers retirement right monthly deposit right that means there's there's something else happening where he's taken out massive loans I've heard of second mortgage I've heard of anything you can imagine I've heard of people cash and things out and taking an extreme amounts of debt in order to fund these heartbreaking scam romances yeah it's bad and it's hard to tell he won't he won't give us a number on how much he spent with his his 95-year-old mother is alive and you know it's hard to think about like he burning through what he right exactly and so you could probably find out if there was a second mortgage on his home or on your 95-year-old grandmother's home you could probably find that out I've been open with her and that that was a part of a bit barrier when he told me we don't want to talk about anymore I said well here's what I'm going to do I'm going to tell every single family member and so I told her and and she had some suspicions anyway so she's she's aware we we we talk all the time and so I try to be diligent in that way but well if she would share her social security number with you you can run a credit report on you and see if he's pulled out loans or mortgages or credit cards in her name with her number yeah unfortunately happens all the time right and I would probably put a block on yours and your mothers and your sisters I mean they'll have to do it their own because their adults but I would put a hold on all of our credit reports that way somebody with our social security number camp open a new credit line without our permission that's great advice but man hate this for you dude I hate it thank you thanks for having the courage to call man this has happened in everywhere all over the country and aging parents are just getting sucked on the rabbit hole of AI and scams and internet conspiracy it's just heartbreaking to watch and there's not a lot anybody could do it it's it's a powerless feeling yeah it's heartbreaking yeah but hey I wouldn't say this your old man's really fortunate to have a son who loves him like you do and a son who's become a strong good man on his own I'm proud of you dude thank you it's a good move so man hope anything I said it helps it anyway but if that was my dad that's where I would be and I wish you guys the best thanks for calling my brother we come back a woman asks how to hold her ex accountable and still do what's best for her son will be right back this show is sponsored by better help all right so my friends at better help just release their annual state of stigma report which is a giant report full of tons of data about the mental and emotional state of many folks across the world and listen it looks at data points it looks at why people are void getting help for the mental health and here's a data point that stood out when I read it more than three out of four Americans reported anxiety or depression symptoms in the previous two weeks if that's you and you're carrying stress anxiety symptoms or depression symptoms listen just talking with someone can help more than you realize for that I recommend better help better help is an online therapy platform that matches you with one of their 30 thousand plus license therapist based on your goals and preferences it's easy and it's super convenient you can message your therapists and schedule sessions right in the platform and if the first therapist you're matched with isn't the right fit you can switch at any time for no extra cost listen don't let stigma stand in the way of you getting the help you need visit better help dot com slash deloni and get 10% off that's better help h-e-l-p dot com slash deloni all right let's roll out to Oklahoma City and talk to Sue what's up Sue okay so there's a lot to this but I'm gonna keep it raised so I am a 41 year old mom single mom of a 10 year old and my ex has been is does not share really any responsibility whatsoever I am the sole provider for my son thankfully I have a good job and so I'm able to provide no child support no visitation no nothing nothing our custody agreement does say from a couple years ago it does say that we have 50 50 custody that has them in the case and so several years ago he got affected for not paying his rent and has been homeless ever since that's why I'm the full time to take care of and so he struggled with addiction you know I think it's there's a component of mental illness mental illness yeah yeah I true mental illness not Instagram mental illness but true yeah yeah psychiatric disorders okay yeah he and part of the reason we got mayor or got divorced was because he refused to work so there's always these like big ideas delusions of you know I'm gonna create this business and then you know changes day by day and it just never materializes so I think there may be some marijuana addiction and that's I think self-medicating yeah probably probably that's trying to take the edge off of whatever's going on in his heart and mind and body yeah okay right yeah so it's kind of a mess but and as my son gets older you know gets harder and harder financially you know he's wanting this one and that and having you know the responsibilities of Christmas and birthdays and just making sure my son doesn't go without right because he only has one parents so I feel more and more like I want to pursue some sort of legal action you know to keep him accountable for his responsibility as a father I just every time I go to pull the trigger I have this like guilt and anxiety that keeps me from moving forward and I think a lot of it goes back to my childhood and my experience being from a broken family. I also with the mental health component. I just, and knowing that he's homeless, it's just how to eat like. - Yeah, like for what? - Yeah. - I don't have a lot of hope that I mean, I feel like he's gonna get thrown in jail, essentially. - Sure. And maybe that's the greatest thing for him. Maybe he can get the medical carry finally needs. But, a couple of things here. One, I do think you need to go refile and make sure, in writing, you have 100% sole custody. Having that still floating 50/50 out there is not wise. - Yeah, I agree. - Especially if he picks up some other woman who's got some semblance of being put together who then wants to suddenly get her hands on your money somehow or somehow thinks he can, right? Like, it may not even be him. It may be another person he meets down the road. - Right. - So, that's component one, I would clear that out. Like, this is my kid and my kid only. - Yeah. - The second piece of it is, yes, you can go higher in attorney, but the question I, like, is for what? - Right. - 'Cause you can't get 20% or half of nothing. - Right. - Right, and so it's you backing up to that, like, you feel frustrated that you can't give your kid the world, and I think that's relative. I think every parent feels that, really, regardless of where they are, right? My kid might want this and I want this. Some of that is you just owning, I'm a good parent, and just because my kid doesn't have this video game box or this other pair of shoes or this or this or this. I'm still doing the best I can, and I'm raising a happy kid that knows for a fact that his mom loves him to the moon and back. - Yeah. - And has a honest picture that dad was really sick, and dad's had a special sick that was in his mind. - I, two years ago, I met with an attorney, I paid a retainer and had documents drawn out. - Okay. - And so I've gone not far, but, you know, at the time he was homeless and, you know, how do you serve someone who doesn't have a home? - And for what? Like, you're not gonna get child support for them. They're not even housing themselves, much less. They're child, right? - Exactly. - Oh, this was for custody. - Oh, for custody, okay. - Yeah, yeah. - And there may be a, there, depending on what state you're in, there may be a, like, a default judgment, right? There are a default, new arrangement, a new default setting, default arrangement in your divorce. Let me address this idea of guilt, okay? And I learned this from Becky Kennedy, she's a psychologist, she works with kids up in New York. She gave me a completely new reframe of guilt and it was pretty liberating for me, okay? Guilt is a good and right and natural psychosocial biological response, which is a dorky way of saying, whenever you do something that violates your values, who you say you are, your body feels it and it should, it's right. So I would say guilt is a good thing. - Okay. - It helps keep ourselves in line with our own values, which helps us keep ourselves aligned with our community, which keeps us all alive. It's a guilt, guilt is a good thing. And so whenever you feel guilty about having to hold somebody accountable, or guilty because of the way somebody else is responding, always go back and ask yourself, do I feel, do I believe that parents should be responsible for their kids? - Yes. - Do I believe even in divorce that both parents should work together with time, with energy and with financial resources to make sure the kid, our kid has the best chance of success, absolutely. And so what you're doing is not a violation of your core values. - Right. - Or let's get deeper back to your childhood. Is it my job to make sure everybody is okay, except for me? Is it my job to make sure everybody feels okay? - I feel like that's who I've become, that's who I was as a child. - That's right. - But is that right? - No. - No. - And so what we're trying to do is, we're trying to pick somebody else's feelings out of their chest and hold them as close to our own as though they were ours. - Right. - And we're trying to manage somebody else's bad feelings. And they don't even know we're doing it. - Yeah, absolutely. - And so that's not guilt. - Right. - That's either a codependency that is either, I might get to throw a whole bunch of nerdy counselor words at you. But at the end of the day, what you're feeling isn't guilt. It's probably anger and it's probably powerlessness. And it's probably you're running the same script you had to run as a little girl. It's probably a whole bunch of things, but it's not guilt. - Yeah. - 'Cause you didn't do anything wrong here. - Yeah. And I don't know if part of it is I was the one who wanted the divorce and I don't know if I feel that I blew up our family even though I did ant takes two. But yeah, I mean, definitely I agree on the custody thing. That's been on my radar the past couple of months. I've been really stressed about what happens with him for my son if something happens to me. - Right. - There you go. That's a huge other parent can't even keep his cell phone on. - You know what I mean. - Or if you leave money to your kid in a will or a life insurance policy. - Yeah. - Oh yeah. - Or a college fund. Or this happened when I was working at universities. Parents would take out student loans in their kid's name. - Yeah. - And just spend them on God knows what? - Yeah. - Right, that happened all the time. And so all it to say is yeah, that getting him out of your child's life for good is awesome. - Yeah, okay. - And don't mix, don't conflate heartbreak and sadness. Like let's just think of your kid. That sucks to be him. - Yeah. And I think I wanted so badly for him to have both parents and his life because I didn't, I did it. And I think I just, I feel like I've failed my son. You know? - Yeah. - Yeah. - It's just hard, but I hear yeah, I think I know this. I just needed a push to move forward with that. - Yeah, if it was me, and this isn't a therapeutic answer, this is, I'm just telling you what I would do. It was me, I would definitely file for a soul custody. - Okay. - And I would close that loop up. - Yeah. - And if I can't find him or there's a half-hearted effort to serve him and he's not a rat, like then I'd file a petition with a court and use the fancy court language and I would get that wrapped up. - Yeah. - I probably, and not probably, I wouldn't chase child support, not at this point. If suddenly he gets medicated and gets cleaned up and goes to recovery and he's providing for himself, like he's not living on the street. Then yes, he needs to play a financial, but he's not in a place psychologically or health wise or emotionally to even take care of himself. - Yeah. - So that would be me throwing good money down the drain, really. - Yeah, fair. - And then there is a reckoning for you, which is, I had this picture of what my kid's life was gonna look like and it doesn't look like that anymore and you haven't reset the picture. - Yeah. - You keep going back and looking at the old one that you wanted it to be and judging the present against that old picture you drew. - Yeah. - That picture's burned, it's ash. - Yeah. - So now what he's waiting for you to do, what you're waiting for you to do, is paint a new picture of what's gonna look like. It's gonna be me and you, kid. - Yeah. - And there will not be another kid on the planet who's loved like you are. - Yeah. - And by the way, I can't afford those shoes. You get to learn the realities of money. And it's, it's not. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, absolutely. - And even if you have a good job, be in a single parent right now is the worst. - Yeah. - It's a nightmare, right? - Yeah. - Yeah. - There's just no way around it. Yeah. - Yeah. And I've probably leaned too far the other way to make sure that, you know what I mean, he never wants for anything. - He needs to want, he needs to want for things. That's, that's you letting him go in the weight room of life and start lifting weights. Light weights, he's not gonna want for food but he's gonna want for Jordan's, right? And that's gonna be the muscles he lifts to deal with the hard cruel world. - Yeah. - And you're gonna be right there with him 'cause you love him. He'll never have to do that alone, all right? How old is he? - 10. - 10. - Yeah. I'd give him till six grade, six grade at a very cursory level. He can start knowing what things cost are on the house. That'll be nice. Not that it's his responsibility. No, but just awareness. But the awareness like, hey, this here's what the light bill cost every month turn on. Oh my goodness, here's what the water bill cost. And here's how we're going to work together. And then when we go to the grocery store, we have a hundred and twenty dollars. You and I are going to do shopping for a hundred and twenty bucks. Can we do it? Oh, yeah. All right. Let's do it. And we're going to, he's going to learn math and addition skills at the same time, right? But I'm going to start to bring him into the realities of this. He's never going to give it to him to carry, right? I don't ever want a kid being like, I don't want to tell my mom that my shoes are too small because I don't want them to carry that burden. But given them a little bit of sensory reality of how the world works, yeah, that's a good thing. That's a good thing. Well, my kids still don't know, I don't tell them what our take home salary is. But man, they participate in what things cost and how we budget for things and how we're going to put this purchase off for two months. And here's how much your school like stuff it like, yeah, we're pretty open about that stuff because I want my kids to be wide eyed about how the world works. Thanks for calling, sister. I hate this has happened to you, but you're an honorable good woman and you're little boys lucky to have you as a mom. We'll be right back. What's up, Dr. John Deloney here. When was the last time you and your spouse got away? Just the two of you, no kids, no work, no distractions, just time to reconnect. Most couples can't remember. That's why Rachel Cruz and I created the money and marriage get away. It's three days in Nashville to laugh together, learn and grow with your spouse. We have a weekend on sale right now, October 22nd through 24th, 2026. Get your tickets at ramsysolutions.com/events or by clicking the link in the show notes. All right, we're back Kelly, it looked like during one of the breaks Alex spilled Coke all over his keyboard or whatever. Didn't happen. What are you doing back there, man? Yeah, he did. It was awful. What was it? Pepsi? What even coke? It was Pepsi. Get out. I would have gotten-- Get in your square key. It was Coca-Cola. It was Coca-Cola. I would have gotten Coke, but there was no Coke available. I know, then like an adult, you abstain. Yeah, just don't have any then. That's fair. My bad. Spilt Pepsi. I also have an Android. What kind of hiring practices do we have here? The guy rolls up holding the Pepsi and an Android in the square key. What are we doing? I would like that pointed out. I just showed up. I just showed up and they-- I think you are. You're like Kramer. You're just here. You're just like, "Hey guys." Just-- It doesn't get paid. He's just volunteering. Yeah, just sipping from your Pepsi, doing donuts in the parking lot in your square key. Listening to your house music. What music do you like? I'd say punk rock. Name one band. Okay. Punk punk, I guess. More like panic at the disco. I like that kind of stuff. You're fired. Yeah, I know. You're fired. That's not punk rock. Yeah, I know. It's pop punk. That's not even that. That is-- Elevator musicians said-- Elevator musicians said. The old stuff was-- The old stuff was-- He's right. The OG album was emo. Fair. The new stuff is just sugary pop. Yeah. I like the old stuff. Kelly, am I the problem? Let's-- I'm kind of hard to move on from this, but here we go. I'm just bathed in disappointment right now. I could see it on you, too. We don't share a lot, but I think we share to stay for that guy. [LAUGHTER] You know, but he has a love of horror movies that I very much appreciate. I want to say that because I do, because we share that. Bro, did you see obsession? What do you think? It was incredible. Out of 10, how many? Oh, it's probably nine. Nine, 10. It's really good. It's up there. It's extraordinary. I agree. I loved it. That's all twice. I feel like it's really-- if the movie was reversed, I feel like that's what we all experience around you. Wait, like, how? Like, I think deep down. You're really nice. But on the outside-- I'm nice, dammit. A little murdery. Yes, see? I think you're like the obsession character just inside out, like where she's like playing nice, but inside, not-- Yeah. I just kept watching that movie being like this. It feels like Kelly, and I don't know why. Like that. Not in a bad way. [LAUGHTER] Yeah, sure. I'll find the compliment of that. I think we should just end today's show. Let's just-- Am I the problem? Go for it. You are. Let's just end today's show. Why? I think we're just done. Because I-- you know, I think we're good. No one's listening anymore. Let's play fair. Love you guys. Bye.