Caller: “My Fiancé Broke His Promise”

We had a really specific plan of how the next like two to three years would go. And then when he got home, he had decided that he wanted to switch to a part-time gig that way he could box full-time. Tell me what you're concerned about. This is going to sound so bad for me to say. What's going on? What's going on? This is John, the Dr. John Deloni Show. I'm glad you're here. Glad you're here. Talking about your marriage, your mental, emotional health, your kids, your families, whatever you got going on in your life. Pull up a seat. We're going to figure out what's the next right thing going on in your life. The last two decades plus now, man. Kylie, I'm getting old. Not near as old as Kelly, but I'm getting old. I've been sitting with hurting people, trying to figure out what am I going to do now? I'm so glad you're here, figuring it out with me. It's got to Jacksonville, Florida, and talk to Emily. Hey, Emily, what's going on? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? How are you today? I'm great. How are you? I'm doing all right. What's going on? So my question that I sent in was, how do I support my fiance when I'm not really in favor of his career choice? Is he a stripper? No, he decided that he wants to be a pro boxer. Oh, nice, okay. Yeah. And there's just been a lot that has gone on in the past couple of months about this. So to give you some backstory, he deployed last year, he's with the militaries in the Army. And while he was deployed, there was a lot of ups and downs, just with what was going on. But when they were in a little bit of a calmer state, he would do jiu-jitsu and boxing with his buddies. And we had had a really specific plan of how the next two to three years would go based on weddings and things like that. And then when he got home, he had decided that he didn't want to keep doing his regular job. When he got back, he wanted to switch to a part-time gig that way he could box full-time and do that type of thing. And I was really kind of against that. I kind of felt really blindsided by it just because I thought we had made all of these plans and then for him to change them so drastically, we had to completely postpone wedding planning just because of money issues. And we're barely scraping by currently as it is. And I just, I want to be supportive, but I don't know how, in this case, honestly. >> Man, there's several things going on here. And often when several things are going on at once, it feels like one big thing. Okay. So I want to pull some of those apart, but before I do that, tell me what it is about him being a pro boxer that you don't like. Is it like I spent years in gyms with professional fighters. And that's a whole ethos in and of itself. Is it, are you worried about his health? Is he not great at it? Are you worried about 10 years of having no money before he gets a fight where he makes more than 150 bucks? Like, tell me what you're concerned about. >> All of the above. >> I'm not really in that world. I don't really know anything about it. And I've tried to, like, ask him to explain it to me better, but then that really doesn't help me. It just freaks me out even more. >> Right. >> But it's, a lot of it is health. I've never seen him in a fight. He's never, like, really done a, like, hardcore professional fight. It's just been him and his buddies messing around or him and his dad. I do, this is going to sound so bad for me to say. He doesn't really have a lot of follow through on things. So that's something that really scares me is, if he's going to invest all of this time and then he's been talking about it for months and he's still hasn't gone to a boxing gym. He hasn't really been working out. >> Yeah, okay. Now we're getting to it. So I've had the blessing of spinning time with young folks who wanted to be professional musicians. That's its own gang, right? And I've spent time with folks who wanted to be professional fighters of multiple different things, right? Back when I was doing it, there was only really one avenue and it was mixed martial arts, where you can make money, but even then it was hardly any money. And then now I hang out with like world class comedians and comics and those who are just starting who really want to make a go of it, right? And who are really working hard on getting their first five minutes dialed in. And so those are three little niche groups where, and the reason I think it's applicable here is everybody's got stars in their eyes about what if this thing works out, right? And I'm in Nashville where we know and I've been booked on the same nights multiple times with Napar Gasi, the guy who's got the number one comedy tour on Planet Earth, right? And. >> I love Nate. >> But like so there's this top of the mountain guy when I was training in MMA, a couple of the guys left the gym and ended up going to other gyms that ended up in the UFC. Like it's cool to see, but every single one of them, all of them, except for a few when they were starting out, had full-time jobs because they had to pay bills. They were people of responsibility who would get up at 4.30 in the morning and go run five miles and then they would go to their job and then they'd hit the gym late at night and it was years of grinding, right? But there's also always a few guys who like to say I'm a full-time, fill in the blank. I'm a full-time musician. I'm a full-time fighter. I'm a full-time comic. And dude, you don't have any money, not to mention I want to build a life with somebody. So let's take, there are obvious health risks. There's also, I would say, as an amateur boxer, the opportunity to really learn discipline, get yourself in shape is pretty amazing too, right? And so there's going to be some, like you have to dial your nutrition in. You have to be really careful about what you're eating, how you're working out, like pay attention to some really important details in your life. So there's some definite net positives there, right? And yeah, he can get knocked out, he can get his teeth knocked out. Those are all real risks, but you can have that when you're firemen, you can have that when you're police officers, right? So every job like that is going to have risks to it. My bigger concern for you is number one, you were somebody's fiance, which meant the roller coaster was heading down the tracks of a y'all building a life together, which means we talk about these big life decisions, and we make plans together. One person doesn't just rip off and say, I'm doing this thing. And if you loved me, you'd go with me, right? The other thing is, it sounds like there's a lot of bark and no bite here, because I'll tell you the fighters that went on pro, they lived it, they breathed it, and they worked their full-time jobs so that they could afford to do this passion. Same with the comics I'm with, who are working all day, grinding it out, and then on their lunch breaks, and they'll have a pad of paper with them, they've got their phone in their pocket to write notes or voice notes, they're constantly working on their craft, but it's not at the expense of their wives or their husbands or their kids. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So to me, fighting is the distraction here, the real thing is that guy doesn't want to be married to you right now in the way y'all had planned it. Yeah. And I think that, like talking about fighting with him, you're not a pro boxer, you've never been in an amateur fight, you've messed around with your buddies, which is cool. But it's totally different than getting in a ring, dude, I'm telling you right now, I've gotten my head knocked off, thinking I was pretty good. And this after a couple years of training, when real boxers would come into the gym, right? Yeah. And so there's major jumps from boxing with your buddies, even military boxing too, training to then getting in the gym with real guys who know what they're doing, right, at an amateur or professional level. But it sounds like he doesn't like working full time. Yeah. It sounds like he likes talking about this thing instead of doing this thing. Yeah. Yeah. When he before he deployed, he was doing, he was doing construction work, and so that was pretty intense, obviously, for the heat. And then he deployed and came back, and was like, I don't want to do that anymore. And he took about two months off, and then two months turned into four months. And then it turned into, he joined an MLM type thing and he was like, I'm going to be making 170K in three months, it'll be great. And I was like, That's not how this is going to work. I promise you. And we got into like pretty intense fights about it because then suddenly a paycheck wouldn't come through because-- No way. Yeah, so he actually worked there for about a month and didn't see any money. I bet it costed a money, huh? Oh my gosh, it was so bad. And so we're already kind of deep in it. I have some student loans that I'm still trying to pay off while I'm also supporting him fully and paying pretty much everything. His dad has helped out a little bit, but I don't like-- I don't like having to ask him that. So let's drill this down and kind of-- this is going to sound weird. But let's move him aside for a second. What are you going to do next? I don't know. I think you do. I think you feel it almost like it's maple syrup or molasses, and it's coming up over your feet and coming up your legs almost to your knees. You feel what's happening. You feel big decisions coming, but you don't want to make them. Yeah. Sorry. No, you're OK. You're OK. And what I would tell you is make those give yourself and give him for crying out loud. But give yourself the grace of waiting until you are fully in ash, and you have to make some decisions. Honor yourself enough to say, what do I want right here right now? Because you're not legally married to this guy. You're seeing, oh, this might be the father of my kids. I can't anchor into this guy. Not because he wants to be a fighter, not because he has big wild dreams, but because he's willing to put on the altar of these dreams. And by the way, they're not even real dreams. They're just fantasies, because he's not even put in the effort towards them. Yeah. But on the altar, he's willing to put me. He's willing to put our relationship. He's willing to put his integrity. He's willing to put his lack of wanting to do hard things. I've got my heart's broken for you, because I think you see the reality in front of you. Yeah. And what could have been-- and I think it's important to spend time grieving the whole-- you all made plans together, right? Yeah, we did. We had really-- I was super excited for them. And then it kind of got ripped away from me back in January. And I've been having to wrestle with what to do next, because it's not an option, like he said, he's doing this. OK, so what he's telling you is behaviors of language, what he's telling you is, I'd rather sit on the couch and talk about some things and fantasize about some things, and watch tons and tons of YouTube videos, and mess around with my buddies. All of that is more important than being your husband. Yeah. All of that is more important than providing for myself and for you, and for this future life we agreed on. That should break your heart, and you should grieve it. And don't wrestle with it. Grieve it, man. And when I say grieve it, here's some things you can do. Don't give it to him. For God's sake, don't give it to him, but write him a letter. So you can get that stuff that's all in your body, and all in your head, out on paper. And be honest with yourselves. Here's the things that I had planned for us. Because if you're like me, man, once I make an agreement with somebody, I go five years down the road. I start planting flowers in my head in the imaginary garden. I have imaginary kids running around. Like I just do, you know? And so be honest about the stories you projected into your future, into y'all's future that are not gonna come true. And when you do that, when you spend some time doing that, it allows your body to get settled in the present. Okay, we're here now. This stuff, because your body feels like those things are real out in the future. But just 'cause y'all planned them, just 'cause y'all had big deep talks, just 'cause y'all had some romantic nights before he got deployed. Right, all that. It feels so real, and none of it was real. It was all a projection into the future, and now you're sitting in the ash of reality. And now, when your body realizes we're here now, a path forward tends to clarify itself pretty well. - Yeah. - But you can't make him work. You can't make him be embarrassed that his girlfriend is fiance. Just had her wedding ripped out from under her. And now she's having to work extra for him to sit on the couch. - Yeah. - Right, you can't make him want to stand up and be the man that he promised you he was gonna be. And so that means you're gonna have to decide, what do I want to do next? This is bigger than boxing. This is bigger than wanting to be a pro boxer. It's about a guy who says, I don't care how you feel. I don't care what I promised you. I don't care what we agreed on. What I want to do is sit on the couch and watch a ton of YouTube and fantasize and wrestle with my buddies. And that should break your heart, 'cause that's different. The thing about plans that you make as an engaged couple, as a married couple, the one truth is they're gonna change. And people are gonna get struck by lightning with ideas and excitement and job opportunities and grief and loss. All these things are gonna happen. The challenges can we make those changes moving forward together. And if we're gonna make these changes, what's the map to do that and you're not getting that? I'm sorry, you're not a bad girl and you're not a bad fiance. You're a rational, reasonable woman who said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Your actions and your words don't match. You're being pretty clear with your actions. You don't wanna be married to me and that breaks my heart. Thanks for a call, sister. I hate this for you. Call back any time, okay? Next up, a woman asks how to rebuild intimacy with her husband after years of sexual and emotional disconnection. We'll be right back. As you know, I'm a big believer in therapy when you need it. It's a powerful way to dig into old patterns, personal challenges and practice new ways of relating to others and living life in the presence of a trained licensed professional. But sometimes challenges take more than a traditional 50 minute session every other week. Sometimes pausing the grind of everyday life and digging into a multi-day intensive experience with your spouse, with your kids, or just by yourself, can transform everything in your home, in your marriage, and in your life. That's why I wanna tell you about capstone wellness and their Vine and Root program. Their Vine and Root program is a deeper level of care. Three to five day therapy intensives for couples, families, and individuals who need more than once a week sessions to change their life. 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All right, let's go down south from Nashville to Birmingham, Alabama, and talk to Katie. What's up, Katie? Hi, Dr. Zahn. Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it very much. Of course, thanks for calling. What's going on? Yeah, well, my husband and I have been married for seven years. But we've been off and on for 20 years prior to that. Almost 20 years prior to that. Damn, 20 years. I know, it's a long story. But so during the own periods of all those years, we were really adventurous when it came to our physical intimacy without intercourse and on his part, not on my own. Wait, wait, help me with that. What do you mean? Well, he didn't want it. want to ever go as far as physical intercourse. I did for 20 years. Yes. Okay. And was it some kind of moral faith thing or is he just not interested in intercourse? No, he was I feel he was just he was very, very particular about give I guess giving himself. I mean, we were both raised in church and, you know, traditional kind of backgrounds. Um, but I was in love with him. And so I just felt like that was something that we would do. He was not so much. Um, didn't want to give himself that much. So after after 13 years together, why did y'all to finally decide to get married? Well, um, I think I had changed a lot. I had a lot of baggage from my past and I've gotten some healing. Um, in those areas. And I think he just saw that I had changed and he's like, Okay, now I really feel like I can really give myself to her and we can get married. Um, so, yeah, that's kind of how that came. I would love to spend like three hours hearing this whole story. It's alone. Yeah, sounds fascinating. But, um, we have limited time. So okay, so bring me to right now, you've been married seven years and. Yeah, so, um, by the time excuse me, by the time we got married, I was going into men of balls and how do you guys? Um, I am 54. He is 60. Okay. Um, we got married like a seven years ago. So is this your, is this the both of y'all's first marriage you've been married before? It's his first marriage, not my first marriage. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um, so by the time we got married, I was, you know, going into men of balls, my libido had like tanked. Um, and so that led to a lot of rejection when it comes to physical intimacy on my part. Um, okay. So, so pay me a picture. You'll, you'll date off and on for 13 years after your first marriage. He's never been married. Y'all are wild and adventurous, but he draws the line at intercourse. You'll break up, get together, break up, get together, almost a decade and a half. You do some healing and then he's like, all right. Now I'm going to marry you and now I'll sleep with you. Right as your body was like, hit the brakes on everything. And so he's, he's finally ready at what, 53 to have intercourse for the first time and you're like, yeah, I'm out. That would make, uh, yeah. It's not a bad thing. Like, men of balls just is like chaos, right? So there's no judgment here. I'm just trying to get a picture of. So he's finally ready to pull the rope on the lawnmower and get this thing started and you're like, I'm out. And so then you'll have been together seven years since and he's 60 now. Yeah. Okay. All right. So over this time, it's just because of, you know, my body and it was going through so many crazy changes and I, I mean, it wasn't I didn't even fill out myself, you know. Yeah. So it built up a wall of rejection in him because I would say, no, I just don't, you know, I was tired and my body was, I didn't have any, you know, desire for it. And I was trying to explain to him like, this is what's going on with me. I don't even know why I don't. I want to want to, but it's just, it's just not happening. And so like I said, it just built up all this, all this rejection in him. And then finally, when I get to this point where I guess my hormones are kind of leveled or I'm like, okay, well, this something has got to change. This is, this has got to stop. And, you know, I feel like at this point, he's gotten some resentment toward me. And so I start going to more counseling and listen to podcast and read books and trying to figure out all this out like, how can I undo what I felt like was the damage that I had done to build this wall of rejection and, you know, resentment toward me. And so, you know, I wanted to want to. I just didn't, you know, my body was just acting crazy. So by the time I started to begin to, you know, have those things, I actually thought I was broken. I mean, I really thought my body is completely broken. And so I started listening to like romantic novels and stuff like that. And I started to feel that exact that desire comes back. But during that time, he was like, reject. I mean, he, there was no hand holding. There was no touching. There was no affection. No kind of, I love you. No anything. He just stopped that because of the rejection that he felt from me. And so that in turn made me feel undesirable. And then when I did start like initiating it, he was like, well, now you just want this on your terms. And I'm like, you know, so what do you want from me? Do you want? I mean, here I'm offering this to you, but now you're pushing me away because of your rejection. So we just found ourselves here in this space where I tell him, you know, I really desire for you to tell me you love me to feel, you know, like I'm wanted other than just when we're in the bedroom. And so he felt like, well, I can't give you those things unless we have sex. So we're at this impasse. And I'm just like, I've got to get some help. I mean, I've spoke, you know, most of the counselors and things that I've worked with are listened to have been winning. And I was like, okay, I've got to get a man's perspective on this. Dr. John is so good to know. I mean, I don't know how much help I can be. The way you've painted the picture, I mean, again, I'd love to spend three hours with both of you just here in this whole story. But at the end of the day, what's helpful right now is, you've acknowledged like, yeah, I for not for bad reasons, right? Not for like, like, weaponizing sex, not for weaponizing intimacy, not for, like trying to establish power in your new marriage. Like none of that. Like, you had some real physiological things going on. So major changes going on. And it was a wild time. And you've also acknowledged, man, there was some hurt for him on the other end of that. I get that, right? And so you're taking ownership of that. And you're seeking, hopefully, you've also explored with medical doctors. There's so much incredible advancement with a hormone replacement therapy now and all kind of stuff. But anyway, like, you've gone and done the work and said, okay, I recognize this. I'm going to show up here. And I don't have another words for this, but he needs to grow up. He's 60 years old. Like, the question is, like, can I show up even though I've had some pain in my past, even though I felt rejected before? Right? Or as as Dr. Phil once said, do you want to have sex or not? That's the question. Right? And if you have a wife who said, Hey, we got married and I was in the depths of menopause. And I didn't know what was happening. I felt out of control, my own body, which is very common language with women experiencing pregnant menopause, and menopause. And you being like, I say, man, you've been willing to say, like, I get the fact that after 53 years, you were ready to party. I'd set that up for 13 years and all of a sudden, we get married right when my car drove off a cliff, right? I don't have any sympathy for a guy that can't look at his wife and say, I love you. Even when they're frustrated, I just don't. Any sympathy for a man who can't participate in connection outside of a bedroom, even when they're frustrated in it. I just don't. I just want to say grow up, man, because here's the thing. He would do those things. He would help out a coworker. And he's not sleeping with them. Right? And so in a weird way, it becomes a way of, I just can't do it. Shout out, yes, you can. And so I mean, he's not on the phone. But at the end of the day, here's the thing, you all clear the deck, take your arm and proverbially swipe it across the table and say, what was doesn't exist anymore? What is is right now? We get to choose what the next 10 years looks like. Do we want to be having sex or not? And it sounds like you get him a really clear road map to you and your body. And he's saying, eh, I don't want to walk that road. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, and I will ask him, you know, tell me what you made me to, you know, what you need for me. And I apologize for, you know, the hurt that I've caused. But he doesn't, he just feel like he shouldn't have to tell me. That's stupid. That's stupid. And I'm like, I'm not a mind. Exactly. Like I have a whole chapter in my new book about we're not mine readers. And Hollywood sold us this nonsensical bill of goods that if a relationship was was right, whatever that means, that you would just walk into a room and know and your shirt would unbutton itself. And he would say just the right words. And that's just how in the music swells, it's just not life. Right? Life is. And let's get rid of the word need for a while, okay? Yeah. That word is so laden with like extraneous responsibility. What y'all both need need is food and water and oxygen and shelter and human connection. Other than that, let's start using the word want. What do you want, man? I shouldn't have to tell you, "Shut up." Yes, you do. And by the way, if y'all have been married, when y'all got work, we're 19. Your sexual preferences, your sexual libido, the things you thought felt good and now things don't feel good, all that changes over and over and over again, right? So you're constantly, I don't care if you've been married two years or 30 years, you're constantly looking to see and know your spouse to get to know them. I used to really be into this thing and I'm not really into that anymore, but I'm kind into this now. Well, that kind of sounds boring. I know it kind of sounds boring. What are you into now? And it's as constant getting to know each other again over and over again. That could be the fun of right or die with one person forever. Is you're constantly, I mean, this sounds kind of crass to say it this way, you're with a new person every few years. If y'all will both allow each other to show up and be seen and known, right? Yeah. But yeah, you're right. You're not a mind reader. You should just know. That's just dumb. Now, here's the thing. I don't want to call him just dumb. He might be a mature and it might just be the layers of hurt and rejection are pretty deep. The path forward is relatively simple. And that is you two pulling out two sheets of paper. I'll even say this. This was a joke that I mentioned on a live stream like five and a half years ago, six years ago. And it people started calling in asking where they could buy it. And I was like, this isn't a product. I called it the John Deloney erotic envelope system. And it was it was me literally being silly, but it's real. And couples all out. Now we hand them out at our marriage of treats here. It's like get an envelope from Walgreens for nine cents or whatever. And you put five or 10 things you want to try or be willing to try in the bedroom and have him put five or 10 things in there. And once or twice a week, whatever y'all's libido is, whatever your schedule looks like, you all commit to drawing one thing out. And if it's something that you're like, I don't even know how this would work physically. Like, I don't think my body can do this. Then don't be judgmental and be like, I'm this is gross. What's wrong with you? Ask like with a smirk on your face. Tell me what's so exciting about this, right? And it could lead into some really intimate fun playful conversations. But it just becomes a it's kind of the envelope is the envelope. So that's what we drew, right? And it kind of takes the pressure off you looking at each other and having a mind read because you have this thing. And often couples have reported back that this gets the ball rolling and it makes future conversations much, much easier. Yeah. I actually made up these little cards for him to give me. I was like, you can use these at any time at any time. And he wouldn't use them. Okay. Can we take a different track here then? Okay. If behavior is a language, what's he telling you? What has he been telling you for 20 years? That I'm not it's not important enough that I'm not important. No, that's your that's your story that you're putting on top of what he's saying. Maybe they's being selfish. I think I mean, again, you're putting a bunch of judgments on it. I don't want to. Yeah, I wouldn't put judgments like I must I must not be enough or I must not be attractive or pretty enough or sexy enough or he's selfish. I wouldn't put judgments on it. I would just look at it cold. The cold fact is if behavior is a language, what he's been saying for years to you is I don't want to sleep with you. Right. If you back out of the last two decades with this person, the truth is he has repeatedly told you to his actions. I don't want to sleep with you. And there's you have been wrestling with it for a long, long time. And in a weird way, strangely not listening to him. Is that rings? Is that ring true? I can definitely see that. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I can I can definitely see how that could do. And so here's the path forward. Sit down with him and preferably not when y'all are both exhausted or whenever that is, right? And say, all right, here's I just looked back at the last 20 years. And if I'm honest about the last 20 years, I've been pressured new for a long time. And the story I'm making up is you just don't want to sleep with me. And that makes me feel really sad. Makes me feel undesirable. It makes me feel all these ways. These are my feelings. And this is my story I made up. And if it's not right, feel free to challenge it. But the story I'm making up is you don't want to sleep with me. Let's let's own that reality. Because you, Katie, are driving yourself crazy trying to come up with solutions and tricks and like all sorts of things. When my gut tells me you were never the problem in the first place. And by the way, menopause is not just the impact of menopause is often not a lack of doing it. Right? It's being with somebody who's lost in their own body, right? So the rejection is the last about our week. Often we having sex. Often we make it out. But the rejection is often, I don't know if I'm going to be cold, I'm going to be hot. I woke up today and I'm so tired. I don't want to get out of bed. I woke up today. And now I feel like I've had 17 cups of coffee. It's that I don't know what I'm going to get. So I begin to create my own world. It's less about sex often. Sometimes it's just purely, we're still together. We still have fun together. And she wants to have, like you said, I want to want to have sex. But often the rejection is much deeper than sexual. Yeah. That's where it shows up because you can count how many times you've done it. But his rejection may be way deeper than sex. Yeah. You may have to do a spark and sponk and fun and silly and all those things, right? Yeah. But I think for you, I think backing out all the way out and saying if behaviors a language for the last 20 years, what has he been telling me? And if behaviors a language for the last seven years, what has he really been telling me? And if behaviors a language for the last three years, what has he really been telling me? The choice is ahead of y'all. He's 60. You're in your 50s. Let's just look at decade. Do we want to have a wild sexual adventure next decade or not? We want to watch TV. All scroll my phone and you watch TV. Y'all get to choose that together. And my hope is y'all choose the world. Y'all want to create together. But it sounds like he's not interested in choosing. He's interested in blaming. After you have that hard conversation, if he wants to call, if you want to call, I'd love to have you back on. See y'all it went if I can help any further. Hate it for you. Hate it for you. We come back. A woman asks how to know if a kid's sport is worth a cost and the sacrifice. I'll be right back. I've seen the data. 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Xander works for you, not the insurance companies. And they help you understand your options in plain language. And they help you find the coverage that fits your family and your budget without pressure, gimmicks or confusion. You don't need a sales pitch. You need protection for your loved ones. Xander's got you. Go to Xander.com today to get a quote that's Xander with the Z dot com. All right, we are back. Take 30 seconds, three seconds, seven seconds. I don't know how, however long it's going to take you. Click the subscribe button. button please. It helps everything. And if one of these calls on this show or previous episodes reminds you of somebody in your life that could use the support and help hit the share button and send the episode over to them. It'll help them. It'll help you and it helps get this show out to more people. Thank you so, so much for your support. Let's go out to Asheville, North Carolina and talk to AMY. What's up, Amy? Hey, Dr. John, how are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm doing all right. I'm honored to talk to you. It's an honor to talk to you. What's going on? Well, we have an 11-year-old daughter who is involved in a unique sport. It's acrobatic gymnastics. It's a form of gymnastics and we are just struggling a little bit. I'm more than a little bit a lot with whether this is right for us, for her, for our life. It is a very time-consuming sport. It's a beautiful sport. It's a great sport, but it's very time-consuming. It's very costly and so we're just really struggling with whether this is correct for us or our family. So I'm happy to dive into a lot of different details about it, but that's kind of the gist of what we're at. Yeah, dig into it. Sean Johnson, an Olympic medalist, lives right down the street from me. Her and her husband have become great friends of ours. It's been fascinating listening to how her parents handled her rise through the ranks and her becoming a global sensation when she was and all that. So I'd love to hear about what y'all are experiencing as a family, what your daughter's feeling, what she's wanting to do versus the realities in your home. Tell me about it. Sure. So there's a lot and we've gone back and forth so much about it between ourselves. We're leaning one way this day and the next day, we're leaning another way and so the one side of it is that it's a very expensive sport. Tuition is huge each month and then you have all of these other expenses of the leotards, the choreography, the competition fees, the traveling to different competitions and she's a superstar. She's amazing. She's definitely a prodigy in it, which is great, but that also comes with a lot of pressure from other people for her to ramp up. We're constantly pressing the brakes on that and trying to keep it reasonable for her age and all of these things. There's also the time commitment. She's there a lot. She's there four days a week for practices. She's got a couple days off a week and certainly before certain competitions, they add extra practices just to train for the competition. Those are two of the big factors of we feel like we're constantly having to press the brakes. I'm happy for her as she comes up and is older and it's more age-appropriate for her to do these bigger level higher level competitions and things like that, but I feel like we are. She's little. This is her second year doing it and she's incredible at it and loves it, which is kind of the other side. She adores this sport. She loves it so much and it's good for her. She's got a tribe of people, a family. It's teaching all of the good things that kids sports do have discipline in all of these things, but yeah, it's just a decision that we're really struggling with a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And for just like further context, right? I used to do this exact same sport and in no way have I pushed her into this. I actively avoided it actually three years and then she said that she wants to do gymnastics. I was like, oh, and so I kind of avoided it until I couldn't anymore. I'm very, very intimately familiar with what it's like to be a kid in this sport and how it can go both ways. And so I feel like in some ways that's beneficial because I have that insight and can kind of say, nope, we're not doing that, but I'm trying to also not allow my stuff to affect her if that makes sense. Yeah. I'm more worried about the quote unquote my stuff from parents to kids when it's being pushed into some when they're pushing your kid into something. Yeah. The other way is what we call wisdom. Right. All right. You used an important word for me. And so I've been real outspoken about like youth sports and travel sports and all this madness. Right. Right. And I scoured it before calling it was like, let me see what he thinks. Well, I scoured you and I scoured Dave. Like, what are they saying? It's hard to get grounded with it a little bit. You used a word that I want to key in on. Okay. My friend who lives on my block is an Olympic gold. I don't know if she's gold medals or silver medals, but she's a was a prodigy. Right. And so there is times when lightning strikes. So I can say, hey, the ROI on youth sports is so abysmal and it's generally a negative ROI. Right. But if my kid was LeBron James, we're going to go do right. So I want to be realistic too. Sure. I've always I've coached kids. I've coached high school at a giant public school. I've sat with college athletes. They're always exceptions, of course. And there's the guys that grind it out and find themselves on the big stage. That's all true. Most of the time at a young age, you know, like, oh, that kid's special, right? Right. And so if your kid is one of those kids, it does change the conversation a bit. Right. Right. Where I want to be careful is the way youth sports works now is these coaches, these schools, they have an incentive to keep your kid in because now it's a multi-jillion dollar business. Right. In the past, if you were a prodigy, you had to move your family to wherever Omaha or something because that's where the coach lived. Right. Now there's programs in every small town in America saying I'm raising up the next yadda yadda yadda, right? Right. And so you're going to have people that tell you how great and wonderful and perfect and amazing. And if you just invest in this and also get private coaching and a psychologist and then one day you could fill in the blank. Right. Right. Right. Where it is important for me is two years in. Is your kid coming home with a whole bunch of blue ribbons? What do you mean? Like we were inside like people can tell me my kids are prodigy all day long. But if they're not going and just wiping the floor with competitions and stuff, no pun intended. Yeah. Then maybe they're good. Maybe they're talent. Maybe they show future promise. Right. I'm not going to mortgage my family's soul and future financially and otherwise for. Right. Because my kids are really good at a thing because kids are good at a lot of things. Well, right. And I think that that's that's part of sort of our other side of it where you know, she really loves this thing and she's incredible at it. Right. I mean, she's she's doing things that people hurry or you know, that didn't have been in it five years or just are not. And so like, where's the end goal? Our sport specifically is not a limbic sport. So that's off the table. So it's kind of like for what? What is all of this for? Right. To just get really good and compete internationally at some point. Right. Okay. If we can afford to do that. You could say if you're independently wealthy. Yeah. Right. Totally. But the other side is that she's there so much that what time do we have to explore the other things? Right. You've dabbled in other sports, just kind of thrown across balls around and you know, all of that and she's great at it. Right. So I think she's just very driven and you know, could you grade it? Multiple things. Exactly. And so let's get to the brass tax of it. Do you all have the money to do this? We could make it work. That's not what I'm asking. Fire sacrifice. Yeah. What does that mean? It would mean that to do it comfortably and check all of the other boxes of the things that must be true in life. Right. In terms of housing, food, retirement, you know, other things, it would require us to have to increase our income a little bit to be comfortable. So currently, no. But okay. And by increasing your income is one of you or your husband has to get a second job or just get a better job that pays more. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Number two, you said something important that I think kids are going to go where they're celebrated. Right. And they're going to go where they're successful. That's just human nature, right? Yeah. What I hear most from collegiate trainers and collegiate coaches is the greatest thing for a kid long term is to play multiple sports and let their body use and do multiple things. Different things have multiple different adults telling them what to do. That over like a long period of time is the best thing for them physically, for them emotionally, for them like for the whole family, right? And so the challenge for y'all is saying, hey, we have a kid who's a stud out here on the mat who's also going to be awesome at soccer. She's a great athlete. At 11, you're just a good athlete, right? Yeah. I would be tempted right now. Let me say it this way, if she's a prodigy, meaning she is one day going to make the turn from this sport over to the balance beam and go to the Olympics or one day like, hey, you can go win an international medal, which sounds all cool until you find out the finances behind what that actually means, like you get a ribbon and trophy and then you come home and you're like, all right. back to my job at Home Depot, whatever, like I would love to see y'all and this might be really a challenge in your family to say we're going to take a season off and you're going to play soccer. Yeah, and that's something that we have talked about and I even talked about it with her and I tried to just be really transparent in an appropriate way. We don't talk about sort of the financial side of it, but just, you know, I leveled with her earlier this, because we're ramping up for summer and, you know, I told her I would love to get you signed up for a summer camp that's not, you know, through your sport. I think you spend a lot of time there and so I just, I think that it would be great for you to try something different. She's like, totally, let's look at it. And so trying to get her involved in other things, but absolutely taking a season off is on the table too. Can I paint a bit, even bigger picture? Yeah. This conversation with her, it's really important is you're an important part of this home and you're gone a whole lot for, to be 11. And so as your parents are number one job is to keep you safe and the best way to keep you safe is to make sure we're all together on the same team. Yeah. This team is most important. Agreed. So you can do an activity this many days a week or whatever. The thing that Sean tells me often and she speaks about so eloquently now is how her parents were always pretty, pretty on top of family's first. Yeah. Right. For sure. And that's the most important thing here. And we'll support you and of course at a young age she was just so good that was obnoxious, right? But like this anchoring here comes first. Okay. No, I like that. And I know this is a hard thing for parents. I've got a 10 year old daughter. Man, I'm telling you, I'm in this. But I have to work hard to not make decisions swayed by what my 10 year old wants right now. Right. Yeah. And I think that that is a large part of our struggle. Right, there's so many goals, you know, at play here that we're trying to be really thoughtful about because it's our life. It's her life. It's her happiness. It's our family, right? Yeah, but this is her childhood and this is you and your husband's marriage. Right. Yep. And if you have good careers that you both feel like you're getting up every day to go help people and you are successful at it, blowing all that up so that my 11 year old can go do a thing, I'm going to really think long and hard about it. Yeah, 100%. Now, like my kid, my, I have one of my kids had some, needed some additional challenges, had some additional challenges with school. Like some, some, like it was a big family decision, but we all talked it through and needed some different kinds of educational support. We moved. Right? Like, I'm not about like saying, okay, I got to get out of this school system and I got to put my kid here. Like, I did that. Yeah. Expensive. Right? And it kind of uprooted our whole world a few years ago. I don't think twice about it was absolutely the right thing and more importantly, we could. Right. And it's coming to cost. Right? It's coming to financial cost. It's coming to family cost. It changed our whole life structure, but it was the right thing to do. Right. But that was let. In fact, my, the kid who was the chief driver there fought us on it. Right? Didn't want to do other things. It was the right thing to do. Now it's been like a crazy blessing 24 months later, right? But. Yeah. I think that kind of leads to I have a quick, well, maybe not quick, but hopefully quick part be a question that is really sort of where I think I struggle is if we do make that decision that it's really best for her to no longer do this thing that she absolutely doors and loves. How in the world do you have that conversation? Like, what do you, because it's going to devastate her, certainly, no matter what, but how do you talk about it with her? How do you bring that conversation to her? And certainly, you know, making sure that there's a lot of support and other things to catch her on the back. Yeah. Totally. I'm struggling with that conversation in my mind a little bit. So I would, I would lay her in three ways, okay? The first one is I unambiguously, me and your dad, we made this decision, right? And they're an 11 year old is going to bang their head up against that to see if it holds. Right. And if there will be comfort in the stardiness of that decision. And if you start it with like, we've noticed you're tired or you're not around very much, then she's going to shoulder the blame of this decision. And so anchor it into unambiguously, your dad and I, your mom and I, we have a vision for our family where we are home more financially. This is very expensive and we want to put some money away for our future, for your future. And here's the second part. We 100% know this doesn't make any sense to you because you're loving. And so when you get upset, when you get mad at us, we totally get it. We're not scared of those big feelings and we will sit here with you and what she needs to know is you aren't going to run from her disappointment, from her anger, from her frustration, from all that stuff. We're going to be right here with you. And also by the way, you're not, you don't have a free pass to slam the door to be mad, to be rude or whatever. You are fully have as big of feelings and emotions as you want. And also like, like I think Dr. Becky says, all feelings are okay, all emotions are okay, but not all actions are okay. The third thing is all of this is more palatable, especially to an 11 year old if you are going to a thing, not just cutting off from a thing. So being able to say, we got soccer and we got basketball and we got lacrosse. It's important for your body, it's important for your mind, it's important for everybody in this family that you try a couple other things, which one of these three do you want. And it will give an 11 year old the sense that she's choosing her destiny. Even though you've limited the choices to two or three. Right. Yeah, I think that that's kind of been weighing on me in terms of wanting to make sure that it's clear that it's not her decision, so that she doesn't feel that guilt, but also just understand that it's going to be devastating for her, should we go that route and, you know, so. Well, and the fact that she was willing to take summer off her camp, that to me is a crack in the door. Right. That maybe she's tired. Yeah, which is why I was like, let me, I wanted to make sure that we did something like that to just give her the opportunity as well as to kind of test the waters on how she's feeling about stuff. You know, I'm a big fan of, especially for once kids get into, you know, eighth grade into high school, I'm going to take a lot more of like what they quote unquote want into an account. Right. Great. But at 10, 11, 12, I'm going to phrase it like with my daughter this summer, I'll just tell you, I said, Hey, you're going to go to two camps. Do you want to go to this one or this one or this one? Okay. Right. So I want her to know, like you're not, the tail isn't wagging the dog here. Right. It's not, Hey, you're going to either go to two camps, just going to sit around all summer. Yeah. And she chose this one. And we got, I mean, we're all as a family going to another one. So she's going to that one. But with my 16 year old, who's also the captain of his, you know, cross country team, he's got responsibilities now that it's cool. He's got to work this summer that we're a lot more, hey, what do you want to do? Like you want to do this? You want to do that? Like so it's a lot more, I'm teaching him, he's got to weigh some of the decisions and everyone of the decisions he makes, he, if he does this camp, he's going to have less money for gas. And if he works, he's not going to be able to be with his friends at this other state, if this camp, he's gone to over here. So he needs to feel the weight of some of those, like it's kind of slowly handing off the baton to him because he's going to be 18 before I blank, right? But 11, 10, no, here's, I'm going to give you two lanes you can choose, but we're going on one of these lanes, which one do you want to go on? Right. And my hope is she goes and just crushes soccer. Yeah. And the coaches are pulling you guys aside, she's really special here. And then you're able to have bigger conversations with her, which is, man, you've been blessed, you're a great athlete. You know what you can do? Kind of whatever you want. And so me and your dad are going to build the best support network for you that works best in our family. Right, no crime. I'm more worried about the rejection from the coaches who see dollar signs on your dollars back. Yeah. I think, you know, I had a conversation with them last night, actually in full transparency to, you know, just see what our options are and, you know, they are very receptive, right? And they understand the age and that, you know, balance is important. And, you know, so I feel like they are ready to also put boundaries around it and have her grow in a way that's more age appropriate. Awesome. That's great. That means you got great coaches. Yeah. So it was a helpful conversation to have with them. And so we're just, you know, we're, we're just way in it. But I think towards the summer, we'll kind of have a little bit of space to really think it through and see what's best. after we kind of get through this last part of the season. So, but I really appreciate your, your insight and on it. So thank you so much. - Thanks for calling in for loving your daughter enough to have these hard conversations and to head right into the storm that is the big emotional feelings of an 11-year-old, a 12-year-old, a 16-year, like, that's awesome. Like, your daughter is lucky to have you and your husband as your parents. Sometimes our kids need us to make some pretty radical changes in sacrifices and we got to move to this school for that, like, that happens, that's life. And sometimes we're gonna go all in. We're gonna go all in and we're gonna be supportive here, but we're gonna do it from a place of reality and anchoring, not from, we're not gonna mortgage our souls, we're not gonna not have dinner together because we're trying to make this thing happen because our seven-year-old wants us to do it that we're just not gonna do that. Kids can't carry the weight of a home. It's a parents job. So thank y'all for being awesome, awesome parents. We'll be right back. Hey, it's Tuloni. Listen, I talk to people all the time who are experiencing difficulties in their life and with their health. Low energy, brain fog, poor sleep, sexual dysfunction, just a general, unwell feeling that they can't seem to put their finger on. And even though this is all super common, it doesn't mean it has to be normal. And this is why I'm super excited to introduce a brand new partner on my show, Joy and Blokes. Joy and Blokes is not just another telemedicine company. 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That's J-O-I and B-L-O-K-E-S. Joy and Blokes.com/dolone. All right, Kelly, am I the problem? All right, so we have an email here from Sarah in El Paso. All right. And it's very short, she says. My husband mostly likes movies that involve nudity and sex and I don't like it because I find it inappropriate. Am I overreacting? [LAUGHTER] I'm on team, husband, this one, Sarah. You're wrong. I'm just kidding. Kelly, your eyes just got all big. No, she's not wrong. She can have her feelings about what she thinks is right or wrong or appropriate or not appropriate. I'm more concerned that she is said, hey, this makes me uncomfortable. I don't like this thing. And he is said, ow, care. No, you're not the problem. I don't know what it's-- I don't know what it's to say. It's easy. Yeah, I agree. I mean-- But take nudity out of it. I like super inappropriate comedies. And here's-- I cannot stop talking, thinking about stranger things. It was such a frickin' masterpiece. It was unbelievable. And I took like two or three months off and I looped back and I started episode one. I've forgotten something. I was like, this is-- it's perfect. My wife has watched four minutes of one episode. And she was like, I'm out. I want nothing to do with it. And so she doesn't think-- like this suspense is good for her. She doesn't-- it gets pretty gory down the road in episodes later. She isn't scary stuff. Great. Great. And so I don't turn it on when the family's in there, like, y'all, get out. I'm watching this. I don't do that. And I wait till she goes to bed, which is lucky for me. She goes to bed at like 4.45 in the afternoon or whatever. Not that early, but she's in early, go to bed. So then I go watch an episode or two. I love it, right? And so she's allowed to like what she likes and is inappropriate. The difference here, I think, is there's a sexual morality thing to it, which is-- I feel like your outsourcing sex to somebody else or to movies or to whatever. And that makes me uncomfortable. Or I don't like that for us or for our kids, et cetera. Let's have those deeper conversations. But no, you're definitely not the problem. What do you think, Kelly? I see you're mad at her. Why are you so mad at her? I'm totally kidding. I totally agree. Yeah, I think there's a bigger conversation here than like my husband doesn't like the pit. It's one of my favorite shows. I love it. I watched that for the first time. It's so good. It's an amazing show. My husband doesn't like the medical shows like that that show the, you know, I can eat it during dinner. Don't bother me whatsoever, not him. Doesn't have a soul. So pretty much. So I don't watch it when he's around, you know. And but that's different, I think, than there's like, there's obviously something here, either morality based or sexual based in their marriage that's a bigger discussion than movies. 100%. And so don't, that's a good call out. So let me end with this. Don't let conversations about values where you have different moral values than your spouse. Don't let those conversations get distracted by a TV show or an internet site because those become proxy wars and it becomes silly. Get to the core root of the conversation and put your thoughts on the table. But no, you're not the problem.